---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 10/22/04: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:18 AM - Corrosion X (Dylan Caldwell) 2. 01:31 AM - Re: 801 on mo-gas (Benford2@aol.com) 3. 02:15 AM - Re: Zenith 701 & Fold Back Wings (thobgret) 4. 04:53 AM - Re: Zenith 701 & Fold Back Wings (Aaron) 5. 06:30 AM - Fw: Flying Instructions for Sport Pilot in Zenith 601 (burylhill) 6. 06:42 AM - 'dual' Key switch with electronic ignition? (Grant Corriveau) 7. 07:04 AM - Gas Strut Supplier UK (Clive Richards) 8. 07:27 AM - Re: Gas Strut Supplier UK (Richard McLachlan) 9. 07:32 AM - Re: Fw: Flying Instructions for Sport Pilot in Zenith 601 (Jack Russell) 10. 07:40 AM - Re: Corrosion X () 11. 07:53 AM - Re: 'dual' Key switch with electronic ignition? (Clive Richards) 12. 08:15 AM - 912 Engine Question - low RPM after takeoff (T. Graziano) 13. 08:15 AM - Re: Gas Strut Supplier UK (Ron Butterfield) 14. 09:54 AM - CH-640 almost ready for first test flight (Jeff Paden) 15. 03:08 PM - Re: 801 on Jet-A (Bryan Martin) 16. 04:06 PM - Airworthiness - FINALLY (Andrew SanClemente) 17. 05:16 PM - Re: Airworthiness - FINALLY (Larry McFarland) 18. 06:34 PM - Re: Gas Strut Supplier UK (Jim and Lucy) 19. 06:40 PM - Fw: Re: Gas Strut Supplier UK (Jim and Lucy) 20. 07:14 PM - Re: Airworthiness - FINALLY (Ron DeWees) 21. 08:23 PM - Re: Fw: Flying Instructions for Sport Pilot in Zenith 601 (Mark Stauffer) 22. 09:13 PM - Blind Rivets - Question (Dave VanLanen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:57 AM PST US From: Dylan Caldwell Subject: Zenith-List: Corrosion X --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dylan Caldwell Hello, Does anyone have any experience with Corrosion X? Can it be used in lieu of zinc chromate or other primers? Thanks much, Dylan Caldwell ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:31 AM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 on mo-gas --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 10/21/2004 12:40:18 PM Mountain Daylight Time, davids601xl@yahoo.com writes: > > Hey Ben. Perhaps you can clarify something for me. I was at a rotax engine > and fuel system seminar this summer and heard something about a - well sort > of like a half-life of octane. Whether it evaporates or disappears by some > other means I don't recall. Since the rotax engines were very sensitive to > octane levels, we were told always to use "fresh" gas since the octane would > be decreasing with time. Buying 1000 gallons at a time would lead to having > "not very fresh" gas by the time you reach the end of the tank. Can you shed > some light on this for me and the rest of the group? Thanks Ben > David > The bulk purchase of fuel is used for all of my company engines, ie, turbocharged snowblower, company trucks and of course N801BH, owned by HaasPowerAir.INC. It is in the development stage so fuel is charged out to a separate entity. I refill my tank at least three times a year so the fuel freshness is not a big issue. Also my supplier will contact me when a new production run comes in from the refiner so i can refill the bulk tank with the newest product possible. In aviation you have to try to maximize ones odds for a safe flight... Happy Flying. Ben Haas N801BH ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:15:32 AM PST US From: "thobgret" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith 701 & Fold Back Wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "thobgret" Hi Gary, Having also the folding-wing option I take the 701 home several times a year. With the help of a small wing supporting ladder and some compressing tools I can fold the wings alone and with unfolding I only need someone to put the ladder in place (don't like someone else touching my plane). The trailering job takes me one and a half hour. Toby Piek Ch701 France ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:08 AM PST US From: "Aaron" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith 701 & Fold Back Wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron" Check out "The New Kolb Aircraft Co." Easily foldable wings! I have a Firestar 2 And when I was folding the wings regularily I could do it and have it in a trailer and ready to pull in about 25 minutes.A Mark 3 would compare w/ size performance of 701. Aaron ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:52 AM PST US From: "burylhill" Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: Flying Instructions for Sport Pilot in Zenith 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "burylhill" ----- Original Message ----- From: burylhill Subject: Flying Instructions for Sport Pilot in Zenith 601 After four years of building a Zenith 601 HD and two more years waiting for the FAA to pass " Sport Pilot" I made an appointment with Roger Dubbert, a 2500 hour Zenith factory pilot to get training in the same Make & Model. We flew their 601 XL. (as close to 601 HD that I could find) Roger says that the 601 XL with 15 degree flaps lands similar to a 601 HD's high lift wing. On 9-1-04 at 7:00 AM we flew at Mexico Missouri Airport in clear, cool, calm, smooth, moist air. We did about ten takeoffs, with no flaps and ten landings in the 15 degree down flap configuration. I waited until 9-1-04 when I could use my state driver's license in lieu of a 3rd class airman's medical, because my most recent FAA medical had NOT been denied. I have had quadruple by pass surgery and all the tests the FAA wanted me to get for a medical for one year cost me $3500+. Six years times $3500 $21,000 that didn't go to doctors and went to Zenith to pay for my plane. (Zenith Aircraft & I need the money more than the doctors) I am 66 years old and mountain bike 30 minutes almost every morning in lieu of taking heart medication. I self certify that there is no reason that I can't fly a Light Sport Aircraft safely! I soloed on my 16th birthday and have over 2000 hours flying, but have not been flying for the last 6 years so was not very professional in my takeoff & landing technique. Roger felt this actually helped me, as I didn't have so much to unlearn from flying Cessna's & Pipers. The Zenith 601 as you know, is very responsive in the pitch mode. I way over controlled for the first few landings and Roger rescued a few of them. Roger Dubbert is an excellent teacher! We did 3 hours of flying & 45 minutes of ground instruction. Roger signed my log book as SAFETY PILOT so I could log the time as PIC. (I had my BFR from a CFI before going there.) I flew left seat after a 15 minutes of demonstration by Roger with my following loosely on the controls to get a feel of sensitivity and pressures involved. My 601 HD meets the Light Sport Aircraft criteria although it is Experimental kit built. I meet the SPORT PILOT rules. So after years of waiting I am legal to fly again. I think I will get a test pilot for the first flight of my plane, as just the thought of it stresses me. On 10-10-04 Roger Dubbert came to Sedona AZ. on his way home from COPPERSTATE fly in. He inspected my Zenair 601 HD and found that I had only 14 degree up travel on my elevator. He cut out 2 inches out of the center arm rest so the stick could go back further giving the elevator the required 27 degree up and 27 down called for in the design. Plus 21 other suggestions for improvements. Nicholas Heintz arrived later and found an additional 10 mistakes to be corrected for long term safety of the aircraft. The next morning Roger test flew the aircraft for its first flight. He reported that it flew well. I was nervous as recorded by the shaking of the video camera I was filling with. Next Nicholas flew my 601 HD and said it was solid, but needed 1 inch of play removed from the aileron control. I sure appreciate their knowledgeable second set of eyes checking out my kit building. It was well worth the money and my time helping them out in the mornings at the tent/booth while the were flying prospective customers. Thanks again men! I am still looking for a CFI with time in make and model to instruct me in a Zenair 601 and endorse my log book for solo in my 601 Roger Dubbert can be reached by calling 1-573-582-9000 at the Zenith factory in Mexico Missouri from 6:30 am to 3:pm or through www.sportspalanes.com or www.zenithair.com Buryl Hill bus@commspeed.net Sedona, Arizona ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:45 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 'dual' Key switch with electronic ignition? From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau My CAM100 engine uses an electronic ignition system. I have the ignition system powered from a direct battery bus. I can feed this bus from either (or both) of my 2 batteries. I'm currently using 2 individual switches (kind of like magneto switches in concept), but I would prefer to use a 'normal' aircraft keyed ignition switch. However-- Magnetos are switched OFF by grounding them -- So, can a 'standard' aviation ignition key switch be installed in such a way as to allow me to supply battery power to my ignition bus? I want to feed the ignition from Bat1 only with the key at L (say); and from Bat2 only with the key at R; and from Both batteries (takeoff and landing) with the switch at BOTH. Will this work or is the key's internal wiring incompatible? Thanks, ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:17 AM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Zenith-List: Gas Strut Supplier UK --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" Hi List For information to UK Builders Ray Lasnier has fitted the following made to measure gas struts to his front hinged CH 601 HD Canopy Length between fixings 710 mm stroke 280 mm with a steel ball joint at each end Obtained as adjastable pressure which was reduced to approx 35 lbs. by releasing gas while pressing on scales. They were obtained from Gas Strut Engineering Unit 2,Lyon Close, Womburn Road Industrial Estate, Kempston,Bedford MK42 7SB. Tel 01234 843979 www.gasstrutengineering.co.uk They were =A327.44 + VAT each. Note their standard stock sizes are cheaper. Product Description 8-18-280-710-BBV Clive Richards ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:58 AM PST US From: "Richard McLachlan" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas Strut Supplier UK --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" Yes, these are what I use. just be careful not too let too much pressure out, as if you go too far they have to go back to the factory to be recharged again. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Zenith-List: Gas Strut Supplier UK > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" > > Hi List > For information to UK Builders > > Ray Lasnier has fitted the following made to measure gas struts to his front hinged CH 601 HD Canopy > > Length between fixings 710 mm stroke 280 mm with a steel ball joint at each end > Obtained as adjastable pressure which was reduced to approx 35 lbs. by releasing gas while pressing on scales. > > They were obtained from Gas Strut Engineering Unit 2,Lyon Close, Womburn Road Industrial Estate, Kempston,Bedford MK42 7SB. Tel 01234 843979 www.gasstrutengineering.co.uk > > They were =A327.44 + VAT each. Note their standard stock sizes are cheaper. > > Product Description 8-18-280-710-BBV > > Clive Richards > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:55 AM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Flying Instructions for Sport Pilot in Zenith 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Buryl: I would be interested in hearing about some of the mistakes Nicholas found if you have the time. It probably would help other builders. Jack in Clovis CA burylhill wrote:. Plus 21 other suggestions for improvements. Nicholas Heintz arrived later and found an additional 10 mistakes to be corrected for long term safety of the aircraft. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:39 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Corrosion X --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dylan, I am using the Corrosion X system in lieu of zinc chromate. The only issue is that you need to buy their application system which uses compressed air to spray the liquid which is rather viscous and by their direction, cannot be diluted. They provide three applicators with the "Belt Pack" system which has a regulator mounted onto an aluminum reservoir, and a spray wand. The minimum air pressure/volume required is 80 PSI and 5-6 CFM, and the whole system costs $249.00 as I recall. I am spraying it on each component after installation to ensure good coverage, i.e. before closure of the rudder, or wing. Patrick M. Stafford 601 XL 80% on the fuselage and 100% on the rudder. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dylan Caldwell Subject: Zenith-List: Corrosion X --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dylan Caldwell Hello, Does anyone have any experience with Corrosion X? Can it be used in lieu of zinc chromate or other primers? Thanks much, Dylan Caldwell ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:54 AM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 'dual' Key switch with electronic ignition? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" Hi Grant The answer is no Off Connects GRD L R Terminals together which are used to earth both magnetos Right Connects GRD L Terminals together which are used to earth the left magneto Left Connects GRD R Terminals together which are used to earth the right magneto Both Connect no Terminals together Start Connects BAT S Terminals together for starter solenoid and GRD GRD Terminals together which are used to earth right magneto and BO LR L Terminals together not used in the circuit I have In the circuit that I have used a negative feed is connected to BAT , the starter solonid to S. the Magneto screens which are earthed at the magneto end are connected to the centre GRD terminal the The Right magneto is connected to R The left magneto is connected to L And There is a link on the switch connecting R To the adjacent GRD terminal. Why two seperate terminals are marked GRD I have no idear. Clive Richards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Corriveau" Subject: Zenith-List: 'dual' Key switch with electronic ignition? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > > My CAM100 engine uses an electronic ignition system. I have the ignition > system powered from a direct battery bus. I can feed this bus from either > (or both) of my 2 batteries. I'm currently using 2 individual switches > (kind of like magneto switches in concept), but I would prefer to use a > 'normal' aircraft keyed ignition switch. > > However-- > > Magnetos are switched OFF by grounding them -- So, can a 'standard' aviation > ignition key switch be installed in such a way as to allow me to supply > battery power to my ignition bus? > > I want to feed the ignition from Bat1 only with the key at L (say); and from > Bat2 only with the key at R; and from Both batteries (takeoff and landing) > with the switch at BOTH. > > Will this work or is the key's internal wiring incompatible? > > Thanks, > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:19 AM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: Zenith-List: 912 Engine Question - low RPM after takeoff --> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano" I am replying for Bill Atkins who is a member of my EAA Chapter here in Tn. Bill successfully flew his 701 yesterday, trouble free. He had extended his carb bowl vent lines previously extended about 4 inches below the cowling. This evidently cause a vacuum in the lines when he picked up speed after leveling off, causing the low RPM problem. He had no problem when he put the lines in the cowling.Bill, who has owned four different aircraft, says the 701 is easier to fly than anything he has ever flew.Tony Graziano601XL Ser5342 N493TG Finishing Canopy - hope to start engine installation (Jabriu 3300) next week.--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ken Szewc Not much information to go on but it could be this.Make sure you have not extended the carburetor bowl vent lines. The older 701 manual says to do this, however if you do it will create avacuum and suck all of the fuel out of the carburetor bowls once you getup to speed. This happened to a friend with a kitfox.Ken Szewc701SP 912S 65 hoursGetting ready to paint912S Engine question.. From: Jon Croke (jon@joncroke.com) Date: Sun Oct 17 - 4:47 PM --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" Bill, I am forwarding this to the Zenith list... full of knowledgeble people.... Just finished a 701. 912S Rotax. I need some information. Engine has about 6 hrs. Most of it on the ground. Aircraft climbs out great (5000 rpms) About 5 sec after level off, the engine all but shuts off. Maybe 3000 rpms. Sometimes not that much. I have been up 4 times. The same every time. Has anyone else had the same trouble? Bill Atkins ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:36 AM PST US From: Ron Butterfield Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas Strut Supplier UK --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Butterfield At 09:59 AM 10/22/04, Clive wrote: >Ray Lasnier has fitted the following ... >They were obtained from ... >They were =A327.44 + VAT each ... Ouch!!! I've not had to deal with these guys for international orders before, but have been extremely pleased with their service within the USl www.mcmaster.com Search for gas springs Look on page 1061; they have latchable ones for ~$50 US, and regular ones for ~$11 US. These are available in various forces from 15 pounds up. The price difference will pay for a lot of shipping -) Regards, RonB ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:00 AM PST US Received-SPF: none (MAIL-SERVER.madbbs.com: domain of jeffpaden@madbbs.com does not designate any permitted senders) From: "Jeff Paden" Subject: Zenith-List: CH-640 almost ready for first test flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" The FAA was really GREAT about answering all of my questions and they have a DAR that is going to inspect my aircraft on 10-27-2004. WOW, that is FAST! With a little luck we will have our airworthy certificate the same day and if the weather is good we hope to do the first test flight next Saturday! Thank you all for your help, if I had just sent the paper work to the FSDO I have been told that I would not have been flying until spring. Jeff Paden CH-640 still 99.9% complete ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 on Jet-A From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin The biggest difference between a Diesel and a gasoline engine has nothing to do with the method of achieving ignition. In a gasoline engine, the fuel is mixed with the air before it is compressed and the compression ratio must be kept low enough to prevent the mixture from igniting from the heating caused by compression because there would be no reliable way of controlling the exact timing of the onset of ignition if that were allowed to happen. A carefully timed spark from a spark plug is then used to control the ignition process. In a Diesel engine, the fuel is not mixed with the air until it is injected into the cylinder near top dead center during the compression stroke. A very high pressure injection system is required. The timing of the fuel injection process controls when ignition occurs. Typically the compression ratio in a Diesel is so high that the compressed air charge is hot enough to ignite the fuel as soon as it is injected. Although in some cases glow plugs are used to assist the start up of a cold engine. You can't use diesel fuel in a typical engine designed to run on gasoline because the fuel/air mixture will pre-ignite during the compression stroke and the resulting "knock' will tear the engine apart. The engine must be designed to run on diesel fuel. On the other hand, a Diesel engine can be made to run on gasoline if the mixture is set up for it. on 10/21/04 2:29 PM, Dan Knezacek at dan@knezacek.ca wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Knezacek" > > Last December in Scientific American's special on aviation they did an > article on the first model to fly across the Atlantic. > > Some guy from New York city developed a very efficient way of running his > model aircraft motor on kerosene. He leaned it out so much that he had to > install spark plugs and he had to add some sort of synthetic lubricant to > the fuel. > > Why can't we develop some system like that for our planes? > > It's true that the engine was originally diesel but the way he ran it it had > to have an ignition system. > > Dan > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:04 PM PST US From: Andrew SanClemente Subject: Zenith-List: Airworthiness - FINALLY --> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente I finally had my inspection and received my airworthiness certificate after about 1 1/2 months of paperwork nightmare. First flight will be next week, Ill report results (hopefully positive) after the fact. Some advice for those of you nearing completion. When they say to start the paperwork 6 months in advance - DO IT. Make sure your registration is completed long before you are and ensure you have the information listed as your local FSDO wants it. Anyways, hard to believe after 10 years its about to fly.... - Andy 601 HDS Stratus Subaru Ram Heads DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:54 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Airworthiness - FINALLY --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Congratulations Andy! It's a noteworthy event that offers huge relief getting past it. Do keep us up on your progress. Larry McFarland Do not archive Subject: Zenith-List: Airworthiness - FINALLY > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente > > > I finally had my inspection and received my airworthiness certificate > after about 1 1/2 months of paperwork nightmare. First flight will be > next week, Ill report results (hopefully positive) after the fact. > Anyways, hard to believe after 10 years its about to fly.... > > - Andy > 601 HDS > Stratus Subaru > Ram Heads > > DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:29 PM PST US From: Jim and Lucy Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas Strut Supplier UK --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy At 02:59 PM 10/22/2004 +0100, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" > > >Hi List > For information to UK Builders > >Ray Lasnier has fitted the following made to measure gas struts to his >front hinged CH 601 HD Canopy > > Length between fixings 710 mm stroke 280 mm with a > steel ball joint at each end > Obtained as adjastable pressure which was reduced > to approx 35 lbs. by releasing gas while pressing on scales. > >They were obtained from Gas Strut Engineering Unit 2,Lyon Close, Womburn >Road Industrial Estate, Kempston,Bedford MK42 7SB. Tel 01234 >843979 www.gasstrutengineering.co.uk > > They were =A327.44 + VAT each. Note their standard stock sizes > are cheaper. > >Product Description 8-18-280-710-BBV > >Clive Richards Another strut that is made by them that will work for an HD part number GSE 1914 -170N The price was $37 dollars canadian each a couple years ago direct form the factory. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:38 PM PST US From: Jim and Lucy Subject: Fwd: Re: Zenith-List: Gas Strut Supplier UK --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy >> >>They were obtained from Gas Strut Engineering Unit 2,Lyon Close, Womburn >>Road Industrial Estate, Kempston,Bedford MK42 7SB. Tel 01234 >>843979 www.gasstrutengineering.co.uk >> >> They were =A327.44 + VAT each. Note their standard stock sizes >> are cheaper. >> >>Product Description 8-18-280-710-BBV >> >>Clive Richards > > >Another strut that is made by them that will work for an HD > >part number GSE 1914 -170N > >The price was $37 dollars canadian each a couple years ago >direct form the factory. I made a mistake on the price. These were ordered for a friends canopy. The price was 37 British LBS. each. Mine were from Canadian tire at about $17 dollars can. each. Jim Pollard ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:24 PM PST US From: "Ron DeWees" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Airworthiness - FINALLY --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" That's GREAT! Can't wait to hear how it flies. Ron DeWees N601TD going to the field tomorrow ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew SanClemente" Subject: Zenith-List: Airworthiness - FINALLY > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente > > > I finally had my inspection and received my airworthiness certificate > after about 1 1/2 months of paperwork nightmare. First flight will be > next week, Ill report results (hopefully positive) after the fact. > > Some advice for those of you nearing completion. When they say to > start the paperwork 6 months in advance - DO IT. Make sure your > registration is completed long before you are and ensure you have the > information listed as your local FSDO wants it. > > Anyways, hard to believe after 10 years its about to fly.... > > - Andy > 601 HDS > Stratus Subaru > Ram Heads > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:39 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fw: Flying Instructions for Sport Pilot in Zenith 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" I would like to second that thought. If you have the time please do tell. Mark Stauffer 601XL Tail finished, working on fuselage Odenton, MD Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Flying Instructions for Sport Pilot in Zenith 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Buryl: I would be interested in hearing about some of the mistakes Nicholas found if you have the time. It probably would help other builders. Jack in Clovis CA burylhill wrote:. Plus 21 other suggestions for improvements. Nicholas Heintz arrived later and found an additional 10 mistakes to be corrected for long term safety of the aircraft. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:34 PM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: Blind Rivets - Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" I just read the article in the October Sport Aviation entitled "Leading the Blind", which addresses blind rivets. Basically, it states that blind rivet systems developed for the aviation industry are of 2 types, friction-lock and mechanical-lock, and that friction-lock blind rivets tend to be sensitive to vibrations, which can cause the stem to fall out, greatly reducing their strength. The article then goes on to recommend the mechanical-lock CherryMax rivets, although it states that these rivets are expensive ($.25 to .$75 apiece). Are the Avex rivets used on the Zenair aircraft considered friction-lock or mechanical-lock? If they are friction-lock, has anyone had problems with loose rivets on higher-time aircraft? Thanks in advance for any information you can provide. Dave Van Lanen Madison, WI (still looking)