Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:15 AM - Re: Hypothetical question sort of (Jim Pellien)
2. 04:58 AM - Re: Kit serial numbers.. (Gary Craze)
3. 05:13 AM - Re: Kit serial numbers.. (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
4. 05:41 AM - Re: Kit serial numbers.. (baileys)
5. 07:12 AM - Re: Kit serial numbers.. (Larry)
6. 07:16 AM - Re: Kit serial numbers.. (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
7. 07:32 AM - Re: Hypothetical question sort of (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
8. 07:34 AM - Re: Hypothetical question sort of (Bruce Johnson)
9. 08:07 AM - Re: Hypothetical question sort of (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
10. 09:05 AM - Re: Hypothetical question sort of (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
11. 09:16 AM - Re: Kit serial numbers.. (Gary Craze)
12. 09:20 AM - Re: workshop (Gary Craze)
13. 09:49 AM - Clecoes.... (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
14. 09:56 AM - Re: Clecoes.... (Scott Laughlin)
15. 10:22 AM - Re: Kit serial numbers.. (cummings@stingray.net)
16. 11:41 AM - Rotax 912/914 - Evans NPG+ Coolant (Leo Gates)
17. 12:51 PM - Re: Gas Strut Supplier UK (Clive Richards)
18. 12:57 PM - Re: Corvair (Gary Gower)
19. 12:57 PM - Re: Hypothetical question sort of (Jeffrey Glasserow)
20. 01:38 PM - Re: Hypothetical question sort of (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
21. 03:14 PM - Usefull load (Matt & Jo)
22. 07:22 PM - Tires (Larry)
23. 07:24 PM - Re: Usefull load (nhulin)
24. 07:25 PM - another heavy wing solution (Jeff Small)
25. 07:34 PM - HD/HDS gear weight (Brandon Tucker)
26. 07:51 PM - Re: another heavy wing solution (Michel Therrien)
27. 08:31 PM - Re: CH601XL nose wheel fork (rgeese1@columbus.rr.com)
28. 08:54 PM - Re: Usefull load (Jim and Lucy)
29. 09:05 PM - Re: Tires (Jim and Lucy)
30. 09:06 PM - Re: Re: CH601XL nose wheel fork (Jack Russell)
31. 09:25 PM - Re: Tires (Jim and Lucy)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Hypothetical question sort of |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
Jeff,
If it has already been registered as an experimental - amateur built
aircraft, then it cannot be re-registered or certified as an E-LSA.
However, a Sport Pilot can fly it as an experimental - amateur built
aircraft if its performance envelope is within the LSA limits.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Glasserow
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hypothetical question sort of
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow"
<jeffglass@starband.net>
Jim,
Re: the FAQ below, what if your plane is already registered as an
Experimental? Can I apply for E-LSA status if my specs meet the FAA
guidelines?
Thanks, Jeff Glasserow
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Pellien
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hypothetical question sort of
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
Frank,
Stall Speed is one of the performance standards for it to make it into
the Experimental Light Sport Aircraft (E-LSA) envelope. The others are
Maximum Take-off Weight not to exceed 1320 lbs. Also a maximum power
continuous cruise speed not exceeding 120 kts (138 mph) CAS.
If you meet all of the above performance standards then follow the
following steps which can be found at www.eaa.org in their Sport Pilot
section:
========================================================================
QUESTION: What is the process of converting an existing unregistered
aircraft to Experimental Light-Sport Aircraft?
ANSWER: Although the FAA is not yet ready to support the process, it
will be as follows:
1. Apply for an N-Number (Forms expected to be released in October,
2004)
2. Prepare a weight and balance report for your aircraft
3. Install an emergency locator transmitter (ELT) on all two-seat
airplanes (powered parachutes and weight-shift not required);
single-seat is optional
4. Prepare your aircraft for inspection
5. Make an appointment with a FAA airworthiness inspector or a
designated airworthiness representative (DAR).
6. Have your aircraft inspected.
========================================================================
=
Jim Pellien
President
Mid-Atlantic Region
SportsPlanes.com
703-851-9375
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
Frank George (Corvallis)
Subject: Zenith-List: Hypothetical question sort of
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
So I have a 601HDS, However after I flew it for the first time the max
gross stall speed was 50mph. What a surprise, just so happens to be
within the new LSA rules.
Of course one can build an aircraft from a kit and modify it while
building to make sure it fits within the LSA and then operate it as a
E-LSA a/c...Not sure I'll do this with my new RV-7 though.
So what do I do now should I wish to sell this A/C to a "Sport" pilot?
Does it need to be registered as such?.....I can't remember detailing
what the stall speed was on the FAA paperwork...In fact I didn't know
what the stall speed was until I flew it.
Any thoughts?
Frank
601 HDS Stratus with Ram Heads and drooping ailerons....:)
==
==
==
==
==
==
==
==
Message 2
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| Subject: | Kit serial numbers.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
Hmmm...
I dug through the drawings that came with the tail kit, which was a
white plastic binder that had 3 fold-out drawings of the rudder and
horizontal stabilizer, and then the actual kit directions.
Couldn't find anything that represented a serial number anywhere.
I've dropped an email to ZAC to solve the mystery.
Thanks!
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Paden
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Kit serial numbers..
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
Hello, your serial number is printed on the front of your drawings.
And remember, the only silly question is the one you do not ask, we are
here to try to help you so NEVER feel silly about asking questions. We
were all new builders at one time.
Jeff Paden
CH-640 COMPLETED FINALLY!
>>This may seem like a silly or nave question, but here goes...
>>I just received my tail kit for the CH801 I'll be building.
>>Do I have a serial number even though I only ordered a "sub-assembly"
>>and not the whole kit?
>>Many thanks,
>>Gary Craze
>>Houston, TX
>>CH801 under way ! N801GC (reserved)
==
==
==
==
Message 3
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| Subject: | Kit serial numbers.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Gary:
Did this binder come in a white cardboard box? If it did, your serial number is
on the OUTSIDE of that box.
It COULD be that ZAC does not assign a serial number until you buy the complete
drawing package...please confirm with ZAC.
Did you consider attending a factory workshop? I did and would not trade the experience
for all the clecos in California!
Happy Building!
Tracy
do not archive
In a message dated 10/26/2004 7:56:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
writes:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
>
>Hmmm...
>
>I dug through the drawings that came with the tail kit, which was a
>white plastic binder that had 3 fold-out drawings of the rudder and
>horizontal stabilizer, and then the actual kit directions.
>
>Couldn't find anything that represented a serial number anywhere.
>
>I've dropped an email to ZAC to solve the mystery.
>
>Thanks!
>Gary
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Paden
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Kit serial numbers..
>
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
>
>Hello, your serial number is printed on the front of your drawings.
>
>And remember, the only silly question is the one you do not ask, we are
>here to try to help you so NEVER feel silly about asking questions. We
>were all new builders at one time.
>
>Jeff Paden
>CH-640 COMPLETED FINALLY!
>
>
>>>This may seem like a silly or nave question, but here goes...
>
>>>I just received my tail kit for the CH801 I'll be building.
>
>>>Do I have a serial number even though I only ordered a "sub-assembly"
>>>and not the whole kit?
>
>>>Many thanks,
>>>Gary Craze
>>>Houston, TX
>>>CH801 under way ! N801GC (reserved)
>
>
>==
>==
>==
>==
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Kit serial numbers.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
Gary,
I don't believe a serial number is assigned with a tail kit. It is assigned when
the you either purchase the complete plans or subsequent kits. At least that
is IMHO
Regards,
Bob B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Craze
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 6:56 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Kit serial numbers..
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
Hmmm...
I dug through the drawings that came with the tail kit, which was a
white plastic binder that had 3 fold-out drawings of the rudder and
horizontal stabilizer, and then the actual kit directions.
Couldn't find anything that represented a serial number anywhere.
I've dropped an email to ZAC to solve the mystery.
Thanks!
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Paden
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Kit serial numbers..
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
Hello, your serial number is printed on the front of your drawings.
And remember, the only silly question is the one you do not ask, we are
here to try to help you so NEVER feel silly about asking questions. We
were all new builders at one time.
Jeff Paden
CH-640 COMPLETED FINALLY!
>>This may seem like a silly or nave question, but here goes...
>>I just received my tail kit for the CH801 I'll be building.
>>Do I have a serial number even though I only ordered a "sub-assembly"
>>and not the whole kit?
>>Many thanks,
>>Gary Craze
>>Houston, TX
>>CH801 under way ! N801GC (reserved)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Kit serial numbers.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm@isp.com>
My ZAC serial came with the plans. But, nothing says you have to use it. I
made up my own and registered same because the only thing ZAC is the
fuselage and tail and I
modified those.
Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Kit serial numbers..
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
>
> This may seem like a silly or nave question, but here goes...
>
> I just received my tail kit for the CH801 I'll be building.
>
> Do I have a serial number even though I only ordered a "sub-assembly"
> and not the whole kit?
>
> All of the documentation I've received from ZAC has a "Builder Number"
> on it. Is that it?
>
> I only ask because I'll be using a software program to track the project
> (Kitlog Pro) and it requires a serial number to start a new project, and
> I don't really want to make one up if I can avoid it.
>
> Many thanks,
> Gary Craze
> Houston, TX
> CH801 under way ! N801GC (reserved)
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Kit serial numbers.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
Your builder number is your serial number. Anybody who orders a kit or plans gets
a builder number.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In phase I testing.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze"
>
> This may seem like a silly or nave question, but here goes...
>
> I just received my tail kit for the CH801 I'll be building.
>
> Do I have a serial number even though I only ordered a "sub-assembly"
> and not the whole kit?
>
> All of the documentation I've received from ZAC has a "Builder Number"
> on it. Is that it?
>
Your builder number is your serial number. Anybody who orders a kit or plans gets
a builder number.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In phase I testing.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" <GARYCRAZE@HOTMAIL.COM>
This may seem like a silly or nave question, but here goes...
I just received my tail kit for the CH801 I'll be building.
Do I have a serial number even though I only ordered a "sub-assembly"
and not the whole kit?
All of the documentation I've received from ZAC has a "Builder Number"
on it. Is that it?
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hypothetical question sort of |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
You must register it as an experimental homebuilt. You can't register it as an
E-LSA because no E-LSA aircraft exist yet. First the consensus standards must
be finalized, then the manufacturer must build a prototype that meets the standards,
and then the company can sell kits as E-LSA aircraft and then the builder
must build it exactly to plans with no deviations in order for it to be certificated
as an E-LSA aircraft. On the other hand, as you mentioned, any aircraft
that meets the definition of LSA can be flown by a sport pilot, no matter
how it is certificated. The stall speed and gross weight don't appear on the FAA
paperwork, they are listed in the entry you make in the aircraft logbook when
you complete the phase I testing. The gross weight also appears on the aircraft
data plate. As long as the logbook and data plate agree on this point and
you've actually tested it at this weight, you should be ok.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In phase I testing.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>
>
> So I have a 601HDS, However after I flew it for the first time the max
> gross stall speed was 50mph. What a surprise, just so happens to be
> within the new LSA rules.
>
> Of course one can build an aircraft from a kit and modify it while
> building to make sure it fits within the LSA and then operate it as a
> E-LSA a/c...Not sure I'll do this with my new RV-7 though.
>
> So what do I do now should I wish to sell this A/C to a "Sport" pilot?
>
> Does it need to be registered as such?.....I can't remember detailing
> what the stall speed was on the FAA paperwork...In fact I didn't know
> what the stall speed was until I flew it.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Frank
>
> 601 HDS Stratus with Ram Heads and drooping ailerons....:)
>
>
>
>
>
>
You must register it as an experimental homebuilt. You can't register it as an
E-LSA because no E-LSA aircraft exist yet. First the consensus standards must
be finalized, then the manufacturer must build a prototype that meets the standards,
and then the company can sell kits as E-LSA aircraft and then the builder
must build it exactly to plans with no deviations in order for it to be certificated
as an E-LSA aircraft. On the other hand, as you mentioned, any aircraft
that meets the definition of LSA can be flown by a sport pilot, no matter
how it is certificated. The stall speed and gross weight don't appear on the FAA
paperwork, they are listed in the entry you make in the aircraft logbook when
you complete the phase I testing. The gross weight also appears on the aircraft
data plate. As long as the logbook and data plate agree on this point and
you've actually tested it at this weight, you should be ok.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In phase I testing.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<FRANK.HINDE@HP.COM>
So I have a 601HDS, However after I flew it for the first time the max
gross stall speed was 50mph. What a surprise, just so happens to be
within the new LSA rules.
Of course one can build an aircraft from a kit and modify it while
building to make sure it fits within the LSA and then operate it as a
E-LSA a/c...Not sure I'll do this with my new RV-7 though.
So what do I do now should I wish to sell this A/C to a "Sport" pilot?
Does it need to be registered as such?.....I can't remember detailing
what the stall speed was on the FAA paperwork...In fact I didn't know
what the stall speed was until I flew it. <
BR>
Any thoughts?
Frank
601 HDS Stratus with Ram Heads and drooping ailerons....:)
ne: http://www.matronics.com/search
Message 8
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| Subject: | Hypothetical question sort of |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Johnson" <bruce@satx.rr.com>
The EAA process listed below is intended for existing "FAT" ultralights to
get legal that cannot (or don't want too), for whatever reason get
registered as AB experimental.
You are MUCH better off registering as AB experimental, then noting in your
log book during the test flight period that your stall speed is under 51mph
(assuming it is... <grin>), etc. Then the craft can be flown by any Sport
Pilot who has been signed off for Make & modal or "SET" (yet to be defined
by the FAA)
I expect to see quite a few "fat" HDS's out there (ie the "real" stall speed
is maybe 54mph, but if you set up the static port just right......<big evil
grin>)
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Glasserow
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hypothetical question sort of
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow"
<jeffglass@starband.net>
Jim,
Re: the FAQ below, what if your plane is already registered as an
Experimental? Can I apply for E-LSA status if my specs meet the FAA
guidelines?
Thanks, Jeff Glasserow
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Pellien
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hypothetical question sort of
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
Frank,
Stall Speed is one of the performance standards for it to make it into
the Experimental Light Sport Aircraft (E-LSA) envelope. The others are
Maximum Take-off Weight not to exceed 1320 lbs. Also a maximum power
continuous cruise speed not exceeding 120 kts (138 mph) CAS.
If you meet all of the above performance standards then follow the
following steps which can be found at www.eaa.org in their Sport Pilot
section:
========================================================================
QUESTION: What is the process of converting an existing unregistered
aircraft to Experimental Light-Sport Aircraft?
ANSWER: Although the FAA is not yet ready to support the process, it
will be as follows:
1. Apply for an N-Number (Forms expected to be released in October,
2004)
2. Prepare a weight and balance report for your aircraft
3. Install an emergency locator transmitter (ELT) on all two-seat
airplanes (powered parachutes and weight-shift not required);
single-seat is optional
4. Prepare your aircraft for inspection
5. Make an appointment with a FAA airworthiness inspector or a
designated airworthiness representative (DAR).
6. Have your aircraft inspected.
========================================================================
=
Jim Pellien
President
Mid-Atlantic Region
SportsPlanes.com
703-851-9375
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
Frank George (Corvallis)
Subject: Zenith-List: Hypothetical question sort of
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
So I have a 601HDS, However after I flew it for the first time the max
gross stall speed was 50mph. What a surprise, just so happens to be
within the new LSA rules.
Of course one can build an aircraft from a kit and modify it while
building to make sure it fits within the LSA and then operate it as a
E-LSA a/c...Not sure I'll do this with my new RV-7 though.
So what do I do now should I wish to sell this A/C to a "Sport" pilot?
Does it need to be registered as such?.....I can't remember detailing
what the stall speed was on the FAA paperwork...In fact I didn't know
what the stall speed was until I flew it.
Any thoughts?
Frank
601 HDS Stratus with Ram Heads and drooping ailerons....:)
==
==
==
==
---
---
Message 9
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| Subject: | Hypothetical question sort of |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
No, no really it stalls very slowly....:)
I don't actually remember entering the stall speed in the logbook...I
mean who cares. I just "know" its right around 50.999mph...My gross is
plated at 1200lb so no probs there.
I'm sure I could make sure my airplane logbook is up to date.
If the FAA is happy with this rather, er....trusting approach (wonder if
the RV-7 can be LSA?) then it really comes down to the insurance
companies being happy with a SP in an HDS. Can't see MUCH problem there,
they seem to fly the same.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Johnson
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hypothetical question sort of
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Johnson" <bruce@satx.rr.com>
The EAA process listed below is intended for existing "FAT" ultralights
to get legal that cannot (or don't want too), for whatever reason get
registered as AB experimental.
You are MUCH better off registering as AB experimental, then noting in
your log book during the test flight period that your stall speed is
under 51mph (assuming it is... <grin>), etc. Then the craft can be
flown by any Sport Pilot who has been signed off for Make & modal or
"SET" (yet to be defined by the FAA)
I expect to see quite a few "fat" HDS's out there (ie the "real" stall
speed is maybe 54mph, but if you set up the static port just
right......<big evil
grin>)
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Glasserow
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hypothetical question sort of
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow"
<jeffglass@starband.net>
Jim,
Re: the FAQ below, what if your plane is already registered as an
Experimental? Can I apply for E-LSA status if my specs meet the FAA
guidelines? Thanks, Jeff Glasserow
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Pellien
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hypothetical question sort of
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
Frank,
Stall Speed is one of the performance standards for it to make it into
the Experimental Light Sport Aircraft (E-LSA) envelope. The others are
Maximum Take-off Weight not to exceed 1320 lbs. Also a maximum power
continuous cruise speed not exceeding 120 kts (138 mph) CAS.
If you meet all of the above performance standards then follow the
following steps which can be found at www.eaa.org in their Sport Pilot
section:
========================================================================
QUESTION: What is the process of converting an existing unregistered
aircraft to Experimental Light-Sport Aircraft?
ANSWER: Although the FAA is not yet ready to support the process, it
will be as follows:
1. Apply for an N-Number (Forms expected to be released in October,
2004)
2. Prepare a weight and balance report for your aircraft
3. Install an emergency locator transmitter (ELT) on all two-seat
airplanes (powered parachutes and weight-shift not required);
single-seat is optional 4. Prepare your aircraft for inspection 5.
Make an appointment with a FAA airworthiness inspector or a designated
airworthiness representative (DAR). 6. Have your aircraft inspected.
========================================================================
=
Jim Pellien
President
Mid-Atlantic Region
SportsPlanes.com
703-851-9375
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
Frank George (Corvallis)
Subject: Zenith-List: Hypothetical question sort of
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
So I have a 601HDS, However after I flew it for the first time the max
gross stall speed was 50mph. What a surprise, just so happens to be
within the new LSA rules.
Of course one can build an aircraft from a kit and modify it while
building to make sure it fits within the LSA and then operate it as a
E-LSA a/c...Not sure I'll do this with my new RV-7 though.
So what do I do now should I wish to sell this A/C to a "Sport" pilot?
Does it need to be registered as such?.....I can't remember detailing
what the stall speed was on the FAA paperwork...In fact I didn't know
what the stall speed was until I flew it.
Any thoughts?
Frank
601 HDS Stratus with Ram Heads and drooping ailerons....:)
==
==
==
==
---
---
==
==
==
==
Message 10
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| Subject: | Hypothetical question sort of |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Larry from what I am reading there seems to be two approaches..
1) Build and register the A/C as an E-LSA...This may be "out" as you
describe.
2) Build a 51% experimental and register it as experimental and if it
complies it maybe flown by a Sport Pilot.
Firstly the EAA website says you can modify an experimental while under
construction to meet the LSA criteria....It would seem reasonable that
if the A/C just happened (as in my case) to stall at 50.9999mph at gross
weight, I can sell it to a Sport Pilot for him/her to fly legally.
Encoraging if the FAA agrees and the insurance companies will cover it.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hypothetical question sort of
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Frank,
If I found out tomorrow, (nice idea)
my HDS performed within the criteria, I don't think it'd be allowed to
be in
SLA because it's
a type that doesn't normally meet that description. They'd consider the
craft modified to meet
the criteria or an established design that is very close. They don't
want
to get into the business of
being required to do new airworthiness inspections to re-establish SLA
candidates.
I think they've named all the established exp. cert. and light types as
in
or out of SLA.
Otherwise interim testing on an individual basis to prove SLA
performance
capability would
become a full time growing nightmare for the FAA.
More likely, being close will bring economic pressure on the Fed to
expand
on, but not change the rules
to include others and our HDS type which is within an immeasurable
tolerence
of the SLA stall speed.
Much less expensive for govenment.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Kit serial numbers.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
Thanks everyone!
My project is officially started!
Regards,
Gary Craze
Houston, TX
CH801 N801GC (reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
bryanmmartin@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Kit serial numbers..
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
Your builder number is your serial number. Anybody who orders a kit or
plans gets a builder number.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In phase I testing.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze"
>
> This may seem like a silly or nave question, but here goes...
>
> I just received my tail kit for the CH801 I'll be building.
>
> Do I have a serial number even though I only ordered a "sub-assembly"
> and not the whole kit?
>
> All of the documentation I've received from ZAC has a "Builder Number"
> on it. Is that it?
>
Your builder number is your serial number. Anybody who orders a kit or
plans gets a builder number.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In phase I testing.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" <GARYCRAZE@HOTMAIL.COM>
This may seem like a silly or nave question, but here goes...
I just received my tail kit for the CH801 I'll be building.
Do I have a serial number even though I only ordered a "sub-assembly"
and not the whole kit?
All of the documentation I've received from ZAC has a "Builder Number"
on it. Is that it?
==
==
==
==
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
Hi Tracy,
I didn't attend the workshop. This will be my third aircraft
and the second using blind rivets and sheet metal (the second was a
plans-only plane), so I'm pretty comfortable around the process.
But I did order more clecos! <grin>
Regards,
Gary
Houston, TX
CH801 N801GC (reserved)
-----Original Message-----
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Gary:
Did you consider attending a factory workshop? I did and would not
trade the experience for all the clecos in California!
Happy Building!
Tracy
do not archive
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
Is the cleco shortage a nationwide phenomena? Or is it just centered around
my shop?
Dave
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
I'm seeing it up here in Nebraska.
----Original Message Follows----
From: VideoFlyer@aol.com
Is the cleco shortage a nationwide phenomena? Or is it just centered around
my shop?
Dave
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Kit serial numbers.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: cummings@stingray.net
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, baileys wrote:
> I don't believe a serial number is assigned with a tail kit. It is
> assigned when the you either purchase the complete plans or subsequent
To address his concern because he's going to be using kitlog pro. It
doesn't matter and he can use a bogus number and later on change it. My
plans were out to the hangar and I just enter my work when I get home, so
for a time I just used a number like 1234, then later on fixed it when I
remembered to write the plans number down and bring it home with me.
So he'll use the program like normal entering the right number when he
gets it.
--
Matthew P. Cummings
1974 Cessna 150L N10667
Moberly, MO (MBY)
Message 16
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| Subject: | Rotax 912/914 - Evans NPG+ Coolant |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Gates" <leogates@allvantage.com>
Rotax has published SB912-043 requiring all certified 912/914 engines be
converted to Evans NPG+ no later than Dec. 31, 2004. I have a 912UL so I
guess I do not have to comply.
The stuff is expensive. However, maybe a one time purchase? How do you get
rid of water in the present engine - Rotax says 3.6 percent water max.
Has anyone on the list checked into this?
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Gas Strut Supplier UK |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" <stephen@crichards.flyer.co.uk>
Hi List the price for the Gas Struts Should read 27.44 British pounds Plus
VAT the total cost for the two including VAT & delivery in UK was 73.88
British Pounds. Apparently the pound sign on the key pad gets
converted to A3 when sent over the internet I send it again as a check
Clive Richards
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clive Richards" <stephen@crichards.flyer.co.uk>
Subject: Zenith-List: Gas Strut Supplier UK
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards"
<stephen@crichards.flyer.co.uk>
>
> Hi List
> For information to UK Builders
>
> Ray Lasnier has fitted the following made to measure gas struts to his
front hinged CH 601 HD Canopy
>
> Length between fixings 710 mm stroke 280 mm with a
steel ball joint at each end
> Obtained as adjastable pressure which was reduced
to approx 35 lbs. by releasing gas while pressing on scales.
>
> They were obtained from Gas Strut Engineering Unit 2,Lyon Close, Womburn
Road Industrial Estate, Kempston,Bedford MK42 7SB. Tel 01234 843979
www.gasstrutengineering.co.uk
>
> They were =A327.44 + VAT each. Note their standard stock sizes are
cheaper.
>
> Product Description 8-18-280-710-BBV
>
> Clive Richards
>
>
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello Al,
Im interested, How is the actual condition? is t converted or is a
core, ready to convert... Where are you located? Finaly, Do you have
a price?
Saludos
Gary Gower.
ggower_99@yahoo.com
--- Al Young <armyret@one-eleven.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young"
> <armyret@one-eleven.net>
>
> I've got a 64 corvair engine I don't need if anyone is interested.
> Contact me off list. Al Young
> Armyret@one-eleven.net
> Do not archive
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Hypothetical question sort of |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow" <jeffglass@starband.net>
Hi Guys, I guess the acid test is the insurance companies... I spoke to
Avemco and AIG. Both will insure me and the plane (HDS) knowing that I was
going to fly it as a Sport Pilot. Both companies said what you've been
saying. "Yes, it's experimental, it will stay experimental, but as long as
the plane WAS NOT modified to be compliant with LSA rules, i.e., build data
and certification statements at time of registration were LSA compliant,
then it's OK to fly the plane."
Jeff Glasserow
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
bryanmmartin@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hypothetical question sort of
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
You must register it as an experimental homebuilt. You can't register it as
an E-LSA because no E-LSA aircraft exist yet. First the consensus standards
must be finalized, then the manufacturer must build a prototype that meets
the standards, and then the company can sell kits as E-LSA aircraft and then
the builder must build it exactly to plans with no deviations in order for
it to be certificated as an E-LSA aircraft. On the other hand, as you
mentioned, any aircraft that meets the definition of LSA can be flown by a
sport pilot, no matter how it is certificated. The stall speed and gross
weight don't appear on the FAA paperwork, they are listed in the entry you
make in the aircraft logbook when you complete the phase I testing. The
gross weight also appears on the aircraft data plate. As long as the logbook
and data plate agree on this point and you've actually tested it at this
weight, you should be ok.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In phase I testing.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>
>
> So I have a 601HDS, However after I flew it for the first time the max
> gross stall speed was 50mph. What a surprise, just so happens to be
> within the new LSA rules.
>
> Of course one can build an aircraft from a kit and modify it while
> building to make sure it fits within the LSA and then operate it as a
> E-LSA a/c...Not sure I'll do this with my new RV-7 though.
>
> So what do I do now should I wish to sell this A/C to a "Sport" pilot?
>
> Does it need to be registered as such?.....I can't remember detailing
> what the stall speed was on the FAA paperwork...In fact I didn't know
> what the stall speed was until I flew it.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Frank
>
> 601 HDS Stratus with Ram Heads and drooping ailerons....:)
>
>
You must register it as an experimental homebuilt. You can't register it as
an E-LSA because no E-LSA aircraft exist yet. First the consensus standards
must be finalized, then the manufacturer must build a prototype that meets
the standards, and then the company can sell kits as E-LSA aircraft and then
the builder must build it exactly to plans with no deviations in order for
it to be certificated as an E-LSA aircraft. On the other hand, as you
mentioned, any aircraft that meets the definition of LSA can be flown by a
sport pilot, no matter how it is certificated. The stall speed and gross
weight don't appear on the FAA paperwork, they are listed in the entry you
make in the aircraft logbook when you complete the phase I testing. The
gross weight also appears on the aircraft data plate. As long as the logbook
and data plate agree on this point and you've actually tested it at this
weight, you should be ok.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In phase I testing.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<FRANK.HINDE@HP.COM>
So I have a 601HDS, However after I flew it for the first time the max
gross stall speed was 50mph. What a surprise, just so happens to be
within the new LSA rules.
Of course one can build an aircraft from a kit and modify it while
building to make sure it fits within the LSA and then operate it as a
E-LSA a/c...Not sure I'll do this with my new RV-7 though.
So what do I do now should I wish to sell this A/C to a "Sport" pilot?
Does it need to be registered as such?.....I can't remember detailing
what the stall speed was on the FAA paperwork...In fact I didn't know
what the stall speed was until I flew it. <
BR>
Any thoughts?
Frank
601 HDS Stratus with Ram Heads and drooping ailerons....:)
ne: http://www.matronics.com/search
Message 20
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| Subject: | Hypothetical question sort of |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Sounds like I have a whole new market into which I will be able to sell
my HDS...Cool!..:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Glasserow
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hypothetical question sort of
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow"
--> <jeffglass@starband.net>
Hi Guys, I guess the acid test is the insurance companies... I spoke to
Avemco and AIG. Both will insure me and the plane (HDS) knowing that I
was going to fly it as a Sport Pilot. Both companies said what you've
been saying. "Yes, it's experimental, it will stay experimental, but as
long as the plane WAS NOT modified to be compliant with LSA rules, i.e.,
build data and certification statements at time of registration were LSA
compliant, then it's OK to fly the plane." Jeff Glasserow
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
Looking at ZAKs website I am trying to understand the differences in the useful
load between the Jabaru and the Lycoming configurations. From what I have seen
the Jabaru weighs about 178 and the Lycoming weighs 218, a 40 lb difference.
However they advertise a useful load of 500 for the Lycoming and 605 for the
Jabaru. Why the big difference? Are my numbers off for the Lycoming?
O% completed, 99% interested
Thanks for the info
Matt
Message 22
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0.44 FORGED_OUTLOOK_TAGS Outlook can't send HTML in this format
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm@isp.com>
I e-mailed Zenith about the "tube type" tires being mounted as "tubeless", here
is their response.
STOL CH 701
> >
> > Also refer to the following sheet for the installation of the O-ring
> > These are the correct tires - In this application, the same tires are
> > used with or without the tube. We have been operating our demo
> > tubeless with the "Tube Type" tires with no problem - Matco is right,
> > these tires are suitable for tubeless application.
> >
> >
> >
> > Nick Heintz
> > Zenith Aircraft Company
Here is what I e-mailed back to them.
I have read your reply and respectively submit the following;
Matco is right???? Matco doesn't manufacture tires, thus their recommendation is
illevelent.
Carlisle, the tire manufacturer, has clearly printed on both sides of the
tires you provided as part of my Zenith 701 kit, as "tube type", and you
have recommended in writing and provided parts with instructions to mount
"tube type" tires as "tubeless". Which is totally adverse to the
recommendations of the tire manufacturer. Surely you understand the
possible ramifications you and your company could suffer should a builder
who has in good faith followed your instructions, have a problem which could
be directly attributed as the cause of loss of life or injury to his/her or
other persons or property.
Unless Carlisle has published an exception to mounting the "tube type' tire
as "tubeless", I believe it would be in Zenith's best interest as well as
your customers for you to take immediate corrective action.
I for one will be putting tubes in my tires.
Larry Martin N1345L
I have an aggressive personality and sometimes put my foot in my mouth, but at
least everyone know where I stand. And Maybe some of you guys think I go a little
over board, but I think Zenith is just plain wrong about this and should do
the right thing. When it comes to aircraft you don't take short cuts.
Larry N1345L
Larry, N1345L
My Airplane Site
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Usefull load |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
Matt,
If you look at the raw engine specs you need to realize that the Jabiru
weight is more indicative of the actual engine in the aircraft. The 180
pounds includes alternator, carb and induction, and exhaust system.
Basically, the 180 pounds is what comes in the box almost ready to bolt on
and fly. The Lycoming on the other hand really is just the basic engine and
there is a lot of weight to add to it to get it to fly.
..neil
601XL/Corvair
Fuselage and stuff
On Tue Oct 26 - 3:14 PM, Matt & Jo (archermj@swbell.net) wrote:
Looking at ZAKs website I am trying to understand the differences in the
useful
load between the Jabaru and the Lycoming configurations. <snip>
Matt
Message 24
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| Subject: | another heavy wing solution |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
Before relegating your August Sport Aviation issue to the bottom of the pile or
taking it in to the local airport bums, you might want to read the Flight Advisor
article entitled "Training Solution" beginning on page 109. It details the
first flights of a 601 HD, problems with an out of envelope W&B caused by a
Lycoming 0-235 that was hung six inches further forward than plans, and a heavy
left wing problem.
Of interest is the cure for the heavy wing - a cure that the RV fraternity uses
often:
"...reducing the trailing edge radius of the aileron on the 'light' wing." page
111
Just going along pinching the trailing edge with your thumb and fingers will result
in a wavy edge. Better to devise some sort of hinged, portable brake (perhaps
out of 1x4 and hinges) to clamp over a much longer length of trailing edge.
tailwinds jeff
Message 25
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| Subject: | HD/HDS gear weight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Gents,
I am trying to calculate the weight difference
between the bungee gear system, and the Grove spring
gear. I have a builder that is weighing the gear
boxes from the center wing, and I am looking for
someone to weigh their gear legs, forks with doublers,
and bungees. If anyone has the entire assembly
including the box and ribs and can weigh that, I would
really appreciate it. I can then just subtract the
weight of the ribs that I have and get an accurate
weight. As soon as I find the weight difference
between bungee and spring, I will report back with my
findings.
If others could weigh their nose gear assembly /
tailwheel assembly, I would appreciate it.
Thanks in advance,
Brandon Tucker
HDS Corvair
working on center wing section
__________________________________
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: another heavy wing solution |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
With our Zodiac, doing it right does not take that
long. I had a heavy left wing problem due to mis
leveling of the wings. (they were not equal by .5
degrees).
I removed the wing, removed the rear attachment plate
from the wing. Made a new plate and re-installed.
Made a new front attachment plate and re-installed +
match drilled. All in one long evening. Problem was
resolved for good.
While it is difficult to work from inside the wing
through the lightening hole, it worked fine with a
combination of long drill bit, lighting and a
strategically positioned mirror in the wing.
To remove the plate I first removed the rivet ends
from inside (rivets were initially driven from
outside). Then, I drilled them with a no 30 or 40
(can't remember) bit (to make sure my hole was
centered). and then with a no 20 bit. A few rivets
gave me difficulty as the head was rotating... I
punched them from outside.
Plates were matched drills except for the bolt hole.
I made a bushing to mark the center of the original
hole, traced a line following the dihedral angle. And
positioned the new hole where needed and drilled.
Re-riveting was done from inside the wing as the
Aileron prevented me from working from outside. I had
to redo a few rivets as it is hard to pull straight in
a so hostile location.
Start time was 7pm, work was done by 0h45am.
Michel
--- Jeff Small <zodiacjeff@msn.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small"
> <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>
> Before relegating your August Sport Aviation issue
> to the bottom of the pile or taking it in to the
> local airport bums, you might want to read the
> Flight Advisor article entitled "Training Solution"
> beginning on page 109. It details the first flights
> of a 601 HD, problems with an out of envelope W&B
> caused by a Lycoming 0-235 that was hung six inches
> further forward than plans, and a heavy left wing
> problem.
>
> Of interest is the cure for the heavy wing - a cure
> that the RV fraternity uses often:
>
> "...reducing the trailing edge radius of the aileron
> on the 'light' wing." page 111
>
> Just going along pinching the trailing edge with
> your thumb and fingers will result in a wavy edge.
> Better to devise some sort of hinged, portable brake
> (perhaps out of 1x4 and hinges) to clamp over a much
> longer length of trailing edge.
>
> tailwinds jeff
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
Message 27
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| Subject: | RE: CH601XL nose wheel fork |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: rgeese1@columbus.rr.com
Just a thought--If anyone out there has the means to bend up 3/16" or 1/4" nose
wheel fork doublers and would be willing to offer them for sale, I would be interested
in purchasing a set. I too am concerned about the strength of the single
3/16" fork supplied with the kit. I am just getting started on construction,
but am trying to look ahead a little.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Usefull load |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 05:13 PM 10/26/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
>
>Looking at ZAKs website I am trying to understand the differences in the
>useful load between the Jabaru and the Lycoming configurations.
Unless you have a list of what exactly was weighed, the different
fwf weights you come across for different engines is
not completely useful. Thing like oil, water,heavy-light starter,
metal-wood prop, prop extension, rads, engine mounts,
extra batteries for redundant ignition and or fuel pumps,
different cowlings, muffler, light or heavy alternator-generator,
and some other things.
You never know what they are including in the engine weight for
instance my soob may weigh about 235 lbs. Or it may weigh 188
lbs it depends what how much stuff I decide to put on the scale
with it.
Jim Pollard
Message 29
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
Some motorcycles tyres were tube type and some were both.
You were not supposed to use tubes in some tubeless tyres
because they would get hot and possibly fail the tube or
tyre. Now in order to get hot you had to drive a fair distance.
You are not going to travel very far across the pavement in
a zodiac. Not like a boat trailer going 70 mph for hours and
hours. Maybe this is why they thing they are ok for these
aircraft wheels with tubes. Like putting a 30 ply aircraft
tire on a transport truck. Blows to bits in an hour. But put
it on a farm wagon with twice the weight on it and it lasts
forever (almost) ...heat .
Jim
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: RE: CH601XL nose wheel fork |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
I am wondering if the 601 hd nosewheel doubler would fit. Zac may not have changed
the dimensions on the XL. Perhaps someone with a 601hd could give us a measurement.
Thanks Jack in Clovis CA
rgeese1@columbus.rr.com wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: rgeese1@columbus.rr.com
Just a thought--If anyone out there has the means to bend up 3/16" or 1/4" nose
wheel fork doublers and would be willing to offer them for sale, I would be interested
in purchasing a set. I too am concerned about the strength of the single
3/16" fork supplied with the kit. I am just getting started on construction,
but am trying to look ahead a little.
Message 31
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
Some motorcycles tires were tube type and some were both.
You were not supposed to use tubes in some tubeless tires
because they would get hot and possibly fail the tube or
tyre. Now in order to get hot you had to drive a fair distance.
You are not going to travel very far across the pavement in
a zodiac. Not like a boat trailer going 70 mph for hours and
hours. Maybe this is why they think they are ok for these
aircraft wheels with tubes. Like putting a 30 ply aircraft
tire on a transport truck. Blows to bits in an hour. But put
it on a farm wagon with twice the weight on it and it lasts
forever (almost) ...heat .
Jim
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