Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:27 AM - Re: Composite spring gear (Jake Reyna)
2. 04:57 AM - NSI Prop AD (Cdngoose)
3. 05:24 AM - Re: Steering rod boots (jnbolding1)
4. 06:09 AM - Re: Gross Weight (cgalley)
5. 06:37 AM - Re: Simple Questions: Builders Logs and Vixen File (David Barth)
6. 06:56 AM - Re: Composite 601 gear (Brandon Tucker)
7. 06:57 AM - Re: 701 flap handle (Larry)
8. 07:01 AM - prop advisory (David Barth)
9. 07:04 AM - Re: Sand bags (Larry McFarland)
10. 07:12 AM - Re: prop advisory (David Barth)
11. 07:19 AM - Re: Simple Questions: Builders Logs and Vixen File (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
12. 07:38 AM - Re: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS (Larry McFarland)
13. 07:55 AM - Re: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
14. 08:16 AM - Re: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS (Jeffrey Glasserow)
15. 08:58 AM - Digital level (Dirk Slabbert)
16. 09:41 AM - Re: Digital level (Larry McFarland)
17. 10:17 AM - Re: Sand bags (Brandon Tucker)
18. 10:44 AM - Re: Digital level (Dabusmith@aol.com)
19. 02:44 PM - Re: RE; Gross Weight (Flydog1966@aol.com)
20. 02:55 PM - Re: Gross Weight (Jeff Paden)
21. 02:57 PM - Re: RE; Gross Weight (Jeff Paden)
22. 02:59 PM - Rotax engine oil (Ronnie Koonce)
23. 03:00 PM - Re: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS (Jeffrey Glasserow)
24. 03:29 PM - Re: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
25. 04:00 PM - Oil Temp (Jeff Paden)
26. 04:06 PM - Re: RE; Gross Weight (Lance Gingell)
27. 04:37 PM - Re: 601 heavy left wing (Bill Howerton)
28. 05:05 PM - Re: Gross Weight (cgalley)
29. 05:11 PM - Re: Oil Temp (cgalley)
30. 05:12 PM - Priming Alum for Zenith Builders (Howard Carter)
31. 05:34 PM - Electrical and Vacuum Systems (Howard Carter)
32. 07:53 PM - Took the Plunge! (Matt & Jo)
33. 07:54 PM - Re: Simple Questions: Builders Logs and Vixen File (Carlos Sa)
34. 08:27 PM - Re: Rotax engine oil (Leo Gates)
35. 11:09 PM - Re: Took the Plunge! (xl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Composite spring gear |
0.32 DIET_2 BODY: Describes weight loss
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jake Reyna" <jake@lockhart-tx.com>
Seems like there are many on a quest for lighter gear. I traded emails with
Chip regarding his composite gear and talked at length with Skyshops about
purchasing their gear for the XL I have on order from Mexico. But first, I
was informed that Czech Aircraft uses an entirely different system to attach
the main landing gear and it is two piece. They'll sell you all the parts,
but it is going to require significant modification to the fuselage center
section and Skyshops doesn't recommend unless you really want to make some
significant changes.
Based on the numbers Brandon posted, the simple solution is to lose 15 lbs
by using the Grove gear. And speaking of losing pounds, I'm carrying an
extra 20 and my wife 15, she's already lost 5. So, by using the Grove gear
and getting down to our ideal weight, we'll be 50 pounds lighter :-)
obtw, has anyone considered running a turbo on the Jabiru 3300?
Jake
jake@lockhart-tx.com
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
From another list.
RAA Canada Members,
This summer an RAA member suffered the loss of a prop blade on his
amphibious 912S Kitfox, that was equipped with a NSI CAP 140
propellor.The
engine immediately broke from its mount, but fortunately was retained
by
the hoses and cables. The pilot was able to make a successful emergency
landing with the departed blade stuck into his float.
The NSI CAP 140 prop is in-flight adjustable and has three Warp
Drive
blades that are modified by the addition of an aluminum cuff that fits
into
the NSI hub. There have so far been two versions of this cuff, with a
third
version about to be released. Some applications will have their
effective
lives limited by this AD, and others are grounded immediately. New
version
3 parts are not yet ready, so some planes will be grounded until parts
are
available near the end of this year.
Effective immediately, all 912S Rotax engines with either the
version 1
or version 2 cuff are grounded. These parts may not be used any longer.
Ship your blades to NSI for installation of the version 3 cuff. Lance
Wheeler has told me this morning that the cost will be under $500 US.
Effective immediately, all 912 engines with the version 1 cuff are
limited to 500 hours. All 912 engines with the version 2 cuff are
limited
to 1000 hours. Blades must then be shipped to NSI for installation of
the
version 3 cuff.
Effective immediately, all 914 engines with the version 1 cuff are
limited to 700 hours. All 914 engines with the version 2 cuff are
limited
to 1000 hours. Blades must then be shipped to NSI for installation of
the
version 3 cuff.
In Lance Wheeler's estimate, blades fitted with the version 3 cuff
will
have an effective life of 2000 hours.This estimate has been calculated
by
Finite Element Analysis. The full story on this will be printed in the
next
issue of the Recreational Flyer.
Gary Wolf
President, RAA Canada
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Steering rod boots |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
----------
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Sanford <sonar1@cox.net>
>
>Hi group:
>I made my rudder steering rod boots from kevlar fabric, sewed with
>kevlar thread, and tied on in several places with safety wire, and
>rivets. The stuff doesn't burn, doesn't give off poison gasses, etc. I
>think it should keep the fire out.
>Pictures at:
>http://members.cox.net/sonar1/kevlarsock.jpg
>
>http://members.cox.net/sonar1/sockbase.jpg
>
>Fred Sanford Ca. 701 Working on doors
>do not archive
I wonder how effective it will be in keeping the CO on the proper side of the firewall
. LOW&SLOW John
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Gross Weight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
You keep avoiding the prop type and its associated weight.
If you have that much power, maybe a fixed pitch would reduce the balance
weight in the tail. You would still get good climb.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gross Weight
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
>
>
> > Hmmm... I think I'd rather go on a diet
> > than pull $40,000.00 of instruments out of my aircraft.
>
>
> >>There's your problem, right there. Do you have any idea how much
$40,000
> >>weighs??!!
>
> Yup, about 10 lbs. Electronics do not weigh much but they sure are
> expensive.
>
> I will admit though, originally I had planned on an all glass cockpit and
I
> would not have had any of the old heavy instruments. However after my
> little accident with the trees I had all the instruments from my CH300
> available so I installed them in this aircraft as backup instruments.
> I guess I could make a new instrument panel and ditch all of the old heavy
> instruments. I just might do that once the snow starts to fly up here
since
> I will have all winter to complete the change. I'm not sure that it would
> make that big of difference, but every pound I can remove would help I
guess
>
>
> Jeff Paden
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Simple Questions: Builders Logs and Vixen File |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Hi Tracy. many people have expressed concern about running a file over sheet metal. I guess I was skeptical until I bought this one on ebay. http://www.ch601.org/tools/vixen%20file.jpg
It is a vixen file. Someone went to the effort to section off a larger file and
attach a wooden soap bar handle. The seller told me they use these at Boing.
I figured if it was good enough for Boing.....
I tried it on some test pieces and was amazed. If the file is properly tuned it
may polish the surface of the sheet and only remove any high material. When
looking at a hole after it was beburred with the vixen file it is perfectly flat.
There is a little shiny ring at the hole where the upraised material from
drilling was removed. One of the problems with using a drill bit is the possibility
of eremoving too much material from the hole. That's not good. Many
builders use a drill and do it this way but it is time consuming. I can deburr
30 holes along the edge of a skin in under 30 seconds and the holes are perfect.
I wouldn't do this with just any file but I wouldn't be without my vixen file for
any future aluminum work.
just my 2 cents
David
Tracy Wrote:
and then during deburring we were told to drag a file right over it...that didn't
seem right to me, so I hit every hole individually with the twist of a large
drill as shown at the workshop. Did I waste my time ??
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
---------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | RE: Composite 601 gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Gents,
As mentioned previously, the Grove gear will
require some minor modification of the attach points
for the XL as well. I am not sure of the diimentions
of the composite gear, but I am sure that it is not as
wide as the 6061 gear. No matter which gear is put on
the HD / HDS, some mounting brackets will have to be
fabricated, at some weight gain. I have pictures of a
tri-gear and taildragger application for those
interested. The brackets don't appear to be very
difficult to build.
My main motivation for looking into options is
that I don't want to build the bungee boxes into my
center wing, and I have heard several accounts of
bearing failures in the HD gear. This is not to say
that the gear is flawed in any way, but there have
been a few instances. The spring gear is a much
easier installation, even with having to build
mounting brackets.
R/
Brandon
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 701 flap handle |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm@isp.com>
They don't have to be that long, but it doesn't hurt anything. You can cut
the lower one, just don't cut it so short it slips out of the flap setting
notches. Zenith only uses two positions, I think they need three 0,15&30.
Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Lee" <rlee468@comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 flap handle
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lee" <rlee468@comcast.net>
>
> Is there a reason for the flap handle to have two long tabs. It seems the
lower one would only have to be an inch or less. What am I missing?
>
>
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Hi all .
I know there are several people using rotax engines on this list so I thought I
would share an advisory note that came from the Recreational Aircraft Association
president - Gary Wolfe.
Fly Safe
David
RAA Canada Members,
This summer an RAA member suffered the loss of a
prop blade on his amphibious 912S Kitfox, that was
equipped with a NSI CAP 140 propellor.The engine
immediately broke from its mount, but fortunately
was retained by the hoses and cables. The pilot was
able to make a successful emergency landing with the
departed blade stuck into his float.
The NSI CAP 140 prop is in-flight adjustable and
has three Warp Drive blades that are modified by the
addition of an aluminum cuff that fits into the NSI
hub. There have so far been two versions of this cuff,
with a third version about to be released. Some
applications will have their effective lives limited
by this AD, and others are grounded immediately.
New version 3 parts are not yet ready, so some planes
will be grounded until parts are available near the
end of this year.
Effective immediately, all 912S Rotax engines with
either the version 1 or version 2 cuff are grounded.
These parts may not be used any longer. Ship your
blades to NSI for installation of the version 3 cuff.
Lance Wheeler has told me this morning that the cost
will be under $500 US.
Effective immediately, all 912 engines with the
version 1 cuff are limited to 500 hours. All 912 engines
with the version 2 cuff are limited to 1000 hours. Blades
must then be shipped to NSI for installation of the
version 3 cuff.
Effective immediately, all 914 engines with the version
1 cuff are limited to 700 hours. All 914 engines with the
version 2 cuff are limited to 1000 hours. Blades must then
be shipped to NSI for installation of the version 3 cuff.
In Lance Wheeler's estimate, blades fitted with the
version 3 cuff will have an effective life of 2000 hours.
This estimate has been calculated by Finite Element
Analysis. The full story on this will be printed in the
next issue of the Recreational Flyer.
Gary Wolf
President, RAA Canada
President, RAA Canada
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
---------------------------------
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
The sandbag test is usually performed on pre-production aircraft
and the wings used are loaded to a limit that requires the parts be
evaluated
and measured for elongation, deformation, cracking, etc. The parts from a
successful test of
this type are usually never flown, but kept as a permanent record for future
production.
There is no assurance that parts tested to these limits won't fail
prematurely because
loads can damage material by inadverdently taking it too far into the
plastic zone.
I wouldn't fly an aircraft that had been tested to these limits, even with a
new set of wings.
What the Fins are doing must be considered a lesser test for G-load limits
specified
by the designer.
Larry McFarland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Stutzman" <stutzman@stutzman.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sand bags
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman <stutzman@stutzman.com>
>
> On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Grant Corriveau wrote:
>
>> This sandbag test is required for all certified aircraft designs, but is
>> it
>> required (or performed anyways) for amateur-built designs? I 'think'
>> not --
>
> Not in the US. However, in Finland (and perhaps other places), homebuilt
> aircraft are required to go through the same design testing that
> production aircraft do.
>
> Somewhere on www.bowersflybaby.com is a picture of Finnish flybaby upside
> down with sandbags loaded on it.
>
> Frank Stutzman
> Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
> Hood River, OR
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: prop advisory |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Oops. Sorry, I didn't see Mark's post before putting this one up. Good intentions
though.
david
do not archive
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
---------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Simple Questions: Builders Logs and Vixen File |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
Vixen file! Magic tool! Great for deburring! I used regular files, drill
bits, de-burring tools.....in that order....till I finally bought a vixen file.
I still have to use a de-burring tool in the tight spots, but the vixen file
is great for most other jobs.
Dave
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Jeffrey,
You might look more closely at the distance the seat pan is off the belly of
the center section
and if it's more than 1/2", it'd be worth making a new one by patterning
from the old one and making
it longer. Take out the back upholstery and if another inch or more is
needed, revisit the
seat back from the standpoint of a thin pad 1/4" thick. To get into
changing the seat back
panel will require a lot of undoing of structurally-set skins. Think before
jumping into this area.
Aside from major neck surgery, move yourself an inch more to center and pad
up your bum so you
sitting forward of the bottom seat curve. If you need more than can be had
by these simple
solutions, take a pass on the plane unless you're prepared to rebuild it.
This process is not without
risk to the appearance of the side skins.
Some have changed the height the canopy sits off the fuselage and that too
can be done with a lot of
work. If yours is a side opening type, you might consider revising it to
open forward which should make
getting clearance with the canopy less a challenge.
You might check out my web site and look closely at the canopy and fuselage
pictures for ideas on
making these changes.
Good luck! It is a great little plane to fly!
Larry McFarland - 601HDS with 44 hours @ www.macsmachine.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS
> The seat bottom and seat back look to be about 3/4" to 1" thick.
> Can the seat be lowered or canted back to give me a bit more headroom?
> Any
> suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
> Jeff G.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hello Jeff,
Are you going to fly the HDS as a Sport pilot after all?...Cool.
Yes I've done LOTS of spins in the HDS and they are quite delightful.
The A/C does speed up quite a bit as the spin develops but it breaks out
very nicely.
Can't help you on the seat....I almost need a booster cushion....:)
The HDS will also roll but it takes a determined effort to get it
over....way too much dihedral to do that easily.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Glasserow
Subject: Zenith-List: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow"
--> <jeffglass@starband.net>
Looks like I might have bought a plane today. Boy, was I impressed with
its performance with the Lycoming O-235! It was very gusty, with
crosswinds of 12 to 19 Knots on the ground. I held it down and rotated
at 60 K to make sure a gust wouldn't stall us. After a 800' roll off we
went, bouncing around like the ping pong balls in the lottery machine.
Winds aloft were 25 to 40 K in gusts. The plane handled well and was
very responsive. Power off stalls were gentle, with a pronounced buffet
before break. Once into the stall there was no tendency to drop a wing.
Again I was impressed with the stability and quick recovery. Power on
stalls were a bit more lively. It seemed like I had to get the plane
vertical before it broke. Once into the stall there was a slight
tendency to break to the left but it was easily corrected. Has anybody
tried a spin? I'd be interested to know how it handled and whether
there was a tendency to tighten up if it went past 1 full turn. Landing
was a treat... Carried in more power than I normally would and kept my
approach speed high to make sure there was plenty of rudder authority.
Luckily, the wind stayed down the runway so touchdown was uneventful.
Based on the way the plane handled and the quality of the build, I made
an offer. I'll find out tomorrow if my offer was accepted.
Now, Big question. I'm 5'11 and weigh about 226 fully clothed. My head
is bumping the canopy with my headset on and I'll need to do...
something... to get my head down. No, taking an inch off the top is out
of the question! The seller is 5'9 and weighs 180 and he has no problem
with the seat height. The seat bottom and seat back look to be about
3/4" to 1" thick. Can the seat be lowered or canted back to give me a
bit more headroom? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Jeff
G.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow" <jeffglass@starband.net>
Larry, thanks for your input. I'll see what I can do with the pan before I
consummate the deal.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601
HDS
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Jeffrey,
You might look more closely at the distance the seat pan is off the belly of
the center section
and if it's more than 1/2", it'd be worth making a new one by patterning
from the old one and making
it longer. Take out the back upholstery and if another inch or more is
needed, revisit the
seat back from the standpoint of a thin pad 1/4" thick. To get into
changing the seat back
panel will require a lot of undoing of structurally-set skins. Think before
jumping into this area.
Aside from major neck surgery, move yourself an inch more to center and pad
up your bum so you
sitting forward of the bottom seat curve. If you need more than can be had
by these simple
solutions, take a pass on the plane unless you're prepared to rebuild it.
This process is not without
risk to the appearance of the side skins.
Some have changed the height the canopy sits off the fuselage and that too
can be done with a lot of
work. If yours is a side opening type, you might consider revising it to
open forward which should make
getting clearance with the canopy less a challenge.
You might check out my web site and look closely at the canopy and fuselage
pictures for ideas on
making these changes.
Good luck! It is a great little plane to fly!
Larry McFarland - 601HDS with 44 hours @ www.macsmachine.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS
> The seat bottom and seat back look to be about 3/4" to 1" thick.
> Can the seat be lowered or canted back to give me a bit more headroom?
> Any
> suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
> Jeff G.
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert@telkomsa.net>
'Mornin fellow 701 builders,
I'm just about to lay skin on the wings, but worried about the slightest twist.
After about 4 months my sturdy laminated work table needs adjusting, checked before
proceeding, could'nt believe my eyes !
Or is it the earth buckling under my feet?! looks like its difficult to keep any
sort of table straight, over time that is.
Question is how critical wing twist really is? any bubble level is out by some
1mm over 1m, yet I see it used by many other builders?
This means your wing may even be out by 1.5 mm side to side, or am I too critical?
how about a digital one?
Thanks,
Dirk.
Piketberg SA
701 SP 5228 Kit
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Digital level |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Dirk,
The simplist bubble level should be perfectly adequate to the job.
Level your table and use the same end of the level on the same
features right and left. Let symmetry cancel the slight inaccuracies.
Your wing isn't going to get real resistant to twist until you get going
on the topside, and of course, it'll lock in on the nose skin.
No, you're not being too critical, but you should be able to hit 1mm
with your level. Get a reference mark for level and switch ends to see
exactly how
much you're off and again to see how close 1mm is for practical use.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert@telkomsa.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Digital level
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert"
> <dirkslabbert@telkomsa.net>
>
> 'Mornin fellow 701 builders,
> I'm just about to lay skin on the wings, but worried about the slightest
> twist.
> After about 4 months my sturdy laminated work table needs adjusting,
> checked before proceeding, could'nt believe my eyes !
> Or is it the earth buckling under my feet?! looks like its difficult to
> keep any sort of table straight, over time that is.
> Question is how critical wing twist really is? any bubble level is out by
> some 1mm over 1m, yet I see it used by many other builders?
> This means your wing may even be out by 1.5 mm side to side, or am I too
> critical? how about a digital one?
> Thanks,
> Dirk.
> Piketberg SA
> 701 SP 5228 Kit
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Larry is correct about wings tested to their
structural limit never being flown.
Remember, "Metal never forgets."
Respectfully,
Brandon
do no archive
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Digital level |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
>Question is how critical wing twist really is? any bubble level is out by
some 1mm over 1m, yet I see it used by many other builders?
Dirk
Just get it as close as you can and it will be fine. I flew in a 701 once
that was visibly misaligned just about everywhere I looked. It still flew
great!
I was surprised to see how accurate a bubble level was when checked against
my digital level. It is within a tenth of a degree if checked carefully. I
used a $20 laser on a camera tripod to level my table. The laser with the line
prism installed was mounted on my camera tripod. I leveled the horizontal
laser line above the table and then shimmed beneath the table top making all the
measurements from the laser line to the table surface the same. I also used
the laser line when marking the wing root curved skin for trimming. With the
wings installed on the plane it was easy to cast the laser line and then dash
a cut line with a sharpie. It made that job simple. Make sure to clamp the
trailing edge to something straight when drilling and installing the rivets.
The trailing edge can get wavy pretty easy.
BTW I like Jerry's idea of using aluminum ladders for supporting the
tabletop. I made sawhorses for table support and shortened the legs when building
the fuse.
I felt a digital level and the laser were money well spent.
Dave Smith
Graham WA
N701XL
Do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: RE; Gross Weight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com
In a message dated 11/1/04 6:30:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jeffpaden@madbbs.com writes:
<< I was able to climb out today at 2000 FPS and that alone could save
a life some day. My last aircraft was called UBU because we had to keep >>
2000 feet per second? Holy Cow ! Thats faster than a bullet!
do not archive
Message 20
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Received-SPF: none (MAIL-SERVER.madbbs.com: domain of jeffpaden@madbbs.com
does not designate any permitted senders)
| Subject: | Re: Gross Weight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
>>You keep avoiding the prop type and its associated weight.
>>If you have that much power, maybe a fixed pitch would reduce the balance
>>weight in the tail. You would still get good climb.
Sorry, I did not mean to avoid the issue of the prop. The prop I have
installed is a CATTO three blade prop and it is a fixed pitch prop.
I would HIGHLY recommend a CATTO prop to any builder.
Jeff Paden
Message 21
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Received-SPF: none (MAIL-SERVER.madbbs.com: domain of jeffpaden@madbbs.com
does not designate any permitted senders)
| Subject: | Re: RE; Gross Weight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
<< I was able to climb out today at 2000 FPS and that alone could save
a life some day. My last aircraft was called UBU because we had to keep
>>
2000 feet per second? Holy Cow ! Thats faster than a bullet!
HEHEEH oops... typo there... that should read 2000 FPM
Jeff Paden
Message 22
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| Subject: | Rotax engine oil |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ronnie Koonce" <rlk@granderiver.net>
I want to use the Shell Advance VSX 4 oil, but cannot find anywhere to buy it online.
Any ideas? Thanks.
do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow" <jeffglass@starband.net>
I've got one more detail to work out with the owner and we've got an
agreement!
I'm going to fly the HDS under Sport pilot regulations. Since I've already
got my ticket all I have to do is take a bi-annual flight exam. AIG
requires two hours of "flight familiarization" with the owner or a type
qualified CFI. I'll do it with the owner and have him sign off my logbook.
I've got to get creative with the seat... Maybe a cushion from Oregon Aero
made of Visqueen foam.I'll also look to see if I can move the seat itself.
I think I could pick up a half inch or maybe more. The other thing I can do
is get a headset that doesn't have a headband. I've seen a few that use
custom molded ear inserts, the same as high end hearing aids.
I think I've got to get REAL familiar with the airplane before I spin it,
but I've done spin training (in a Decathalon) and I'm current...
Regards, Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601
HDS
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hello Jeff,
Are you going to fly the HDS as a Sport pilot after all?...Cool.
Yes I've done LOTS of spins in the HDS and they are quite delightful.
The A/C does speed up quite a bit as the spin develops but it breaks out
very nicely.
Can't help you on the seat....I almost need a booster cushion....:)
The HDS will also roll but it takes a determined effort to get it
over....way too much dihedral to do that easily.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Glasserow
Subject: Zenith-List: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow"
--> <jeffglass@starband.net>
Looks like I might have bought a plane today. Boy, was I impressed with
its performance with the Lycoming O-235! It was very gusty, with
crosswinds of 12 to 19 Knots on the ground. I held it down and rotated
at 60 K to make sure a gust wouldn't stall us. After a 800' roll off we
went, bouncing around like the ping pong balls in the lottery machine.
Winds aloft were 25 to 40 K in gusts. The plane handled well and was
very responsive. Power off stalls were gentle, with a pronounced buffet
before break. Once into the stall there was no tendency to drop a wing.
Again I was impressed with the stability and quick recovery. Power on
stalls were a bit more lively. It seemed like I had to get the plane
vertical before it broke. Once into the stall there was a slight
tendency to break to the left but it was easily corrected. Has anybody
tried a spin? I'd be interested to know how it handled and whether
there was a tendency to tighten up if it went past 1 full turn. Landing
was a treat... Carried in more power than I normally would and kept my
approach speed high to make sure there was plenty of rudder authority.
Luckily, the wind stayed down the runway so touchdown was uneventful.
Based on the way the plane handled and the quality of the build, I made
an offer. I'll find out tomorrow if my offer was accepted.
Now, Big question. I'm 5'11 and weigh about 226 fully clothed. My head
is bumping the canopy with my headset on and I'll need to do...
something... to get my head down. No, taking an inch off the top is out
of the question! The seller is 5'9 and weighs 180 and he has no problem
with the seat height. The seat bottom and seat back look to be about
3/4" to 1" thick. Can the seat be lowered or canted back to give me a
bit more headroom? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Jeff
G.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Just get a good visual on those engine mounts before you do anything
radical.
Tell me off list how much you paid and hours/condition etc. as mine will
be up for sale in about a year.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Glasserow
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601
HDS
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow"
--> <jeffglass@starband.net>
I've got one more detail to work out with the owner and we've got an
agreement! I'm going to fly the HDS under Sport pilot regulations.
Since I've already got my ticket all I have to do is take a bi-annual
flight exam. AIG requires two hours of "flight familiarization" with
the owner or a type qualified CFI. I'll do it with the owner and have
him sign off my logbook. I've got to get creative with the seat... Maybe
a cushion from Oregon Aero made of Visqueen foam.I'll also look to see
if I can move the seat itself. I think I could pick up a half inch or
maybe more. The other thing I can do is get a headset that doesn't have
a headband. I've seen a few that use custom molded ear inserts, the
same as high end hearing aids.
I think I've got to get REAL familiar with the airplane before I spin
it, but I've done spin training (in a Decathalon) and I'm current...
Regards, Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601
HDS
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hello Jeff,
Are you going to fly the HDS as a Sport pilot after all?...Cool.
Yes I've done LOTS of spins in the HDS and they are quite delightful.
The A/C does speed up quite a bit as the spin develops but it breaks out
very nicely. Can't help you on the seat....I almost need a booster
cushion....:)
The HDS will also roll but it takes a determined effort to get it
over....way too much dihedral to do that easily.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Glasserow
Subject: Zenith-List: Suggestions for lowering seat height in a 601 HDS
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow"
--> <jeffglass@starband.net>
Looks like I might have bought a plane today. Boy, was I impressed with
its performance with the Lycoming O-235! It was very gusty, with
crosswinds of 12 to 19 Knots on the ground. I held it down and rotated
at 60 K to make sure a gust wouldn't stall us. After a 800' roll off we
went, bouncing around like the ping pong balls in the lottery machine.
Winds aloft were 25 to 40 K in gusts. The plane handled well and was
very responsive. Power off stalls were gentle, with a pronounced buffet
before break. Once into the stall there was no tendency to drop a wing.
Again I was impressed with the stability and quick recovery. Power on
stalls were a bit more lively. It seemed like I had to get the plane
vertical before it broke. Once into the stall there was a slight
tendency to break to the left but it was easily corrected. Has anybody
tried a spin? I'd be interested to know how it handled and whether
there was a tendency to tighten up if it went past 1 full turn. Landing
was a treat... Carried in more power than I normally would and kept my
approach speed high to make sure there was plenty of rudder authority.
Luckily, the wind stayed down the runway so touchdown was uneventful.
Based on the way the plane handled and the quality of the build, I made
an offer. I'll find out tomorrow if my offer was accepted.
Now, Big question. I'm 5'11 and weigh about 226 fully clothed. My head
is bumping the canopy with my headset on and I'll need to do...
something... to get my head down. No, taking an inch off the top is out
of the question! The seller is 5'9 and weighs 180 and he has no problem
with the seat height. The seat bottom and seat back look to be about
3/4" to 1" thick. Can the seat be lowered or canted back to give me a
bit more headroom? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Jeff
G.
Message 25
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Received-SPF: none (MAIL-SERVER.madbbs.com: domain of jeffpaden@madbbs.com
does not designate any permitted senders)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
Hello again list.
Can anyone on the list tell me where I may be able to purchase a POH for any
aircraft that has a Lycoming IO-540 engine.
I just want to make sure that my oil temp, pressure etc are really in the
green.
Currently my oil temp is running at 200 F and my oil pressure is at 90 psi
during climb out and around 80 psi at 2300 rpms.
The above sounds ok to me and I have my oil temp red line set to 230 F.
By the way, ZAC contacted me today and so far I feel real good about the
numbers that I am seeing in my test flights.
Also note, that the CH-640 did not go through a sand bag test so all the
numbers published are calculated numbers. I'm not sure if that makes me
feel better or worse <grin>.
Jeff Paden
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | RE; Gross Weight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Its all that inertia from the weight! ;-)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Flydog1966@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE; Gross Weight
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com
In a message dated 11/1/04 6:30:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jeffpaden@madbbs.com writes:
<< I was able to climb out today at 2000 FPS and that alone could save
a life some day. My last aircraft was called UBU because we had to keep
>>
2000 feet per second? Holy Cow ! Thats faster than a
bullet!
do not archive
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601 heavy left wing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
In confidential conversations with people who are personally aware of the
situation, they are adamant that the crash had nothing whatsoever to do with
a health problem the pilot may have had. He was a very capable, highly
experienced test pilot with over 5000 hours of stick time. If indeed he had
a health problem it did not contribute to the crash
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 heavy left wing
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> So what if you are wrong and it is the right wing that is heavy?
>
> You might do a high speed taxi and see which wing lifts first or which
> lifts
> easiest with aileron input.
>
> Still recommend the Flight Advisor Program.
>
> Incidentally when talking to EAA HQ they seem to think that the 601 that
> crashed last week might have been due to a medical problem and nothing
> with
> the plane itself.
>
> Cy Galley
> EAA Safety Programs Editor
> Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
> To: "zenithlist matronics" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: 601 heavy left wing
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
> <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
>>
>> A number of people have reported heavy left wings on Zodiacs and, like
> Jeff Paden, many have described the first flight as "scarey" due to the
> problem. I've found scattered references (and post hoc solutions) to the
> problem but no authoritative answers as to why it so frequently occurs in
> the first place. I'm planning on putting some weight in my right wing
> locker for the first flight just in case, but what do you guys think could
> be the problem?
>> Bob
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Gross Weight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
That is good news. Now how did your figure that the engine was only 110
pound heavier? Did you measure the actual weight or did you use the
manufacturer's figures? The manufacturer is sometimes optimistic. Many
times they give the weights without starter, mags, harness, fuel pump,
vacuum pump, primer, filters, oil cooler, motor mount bushings, even spark
plugs.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gross Weight
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
>
>
> >>You keep avoiding the prop type and its associated weight.
>
> >>If you have that much power, maybe a fixed pitch would reduce the
balance
> >>weight in the tail. You would still get good climb.
>
> Sorry, I did not mean to avoid the issue of the prop. The prop I have
> installed is a CATTO three blade prop and it is a fixed pitch prop.
> I would HIGHLY recommend a CATTO prop to any builder.
>
> Jeff Paden
>
>
Message 29
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I would be my recommendation the overhaul manual and the parts book. The
overhaul manual will give you various operating parameters and will have an
operating section for the engine. It will also include the power curves,
etc.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Oil Temp
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
>
> Hello again list.
>
> Can anyone on the list tell me where I may be able to purchase a POH for
any
> aircraft that has a Lycoming IO-540 engine.
>
> I just want to make sure that my oil temp, pressure etc are really in the
> green.
>
> Currently my oil temp is running at 200 F and my oil pressure is at 90 psi
> during climb out and around 80 psi at 2300 rpms.
>
> The above sounds ok to me and I have my oil temp red line set to 230 F.
>
> By the way, ZAC contacted me today and so far I feel real good about the
> numbers that I am seeing in my test flights.
>
> Also note, that the CH-640 did not go through a sand bag test so all the
> numbers published are calculated numbers. I'm not sure if that makes me
> feel better or worse <grin>.
>
> Jeff Paden
>
>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Priming Alum for Zenith Builders |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Howard Carter <howado@cwia.com>
Someone mentioned recently that they were using a wash primer before
riveting. CAUTION!
Wash primers are intended to promote adhesion for painting. They are
NOT intended for corrosion protection, and do not meet any of the tests
required by MIL Specs. If you have any doubts about this, check with the
factory making the primer.
Howard Carter
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Electrical and Vacuum Systems |
3.60 ALT_MED Misspelled medication name
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Howard Carter <howado@cwia.com>
To Zenith builders interested in electrical and vacuum systems for their
project:
The November issue of "Aviation Safety" has an article called 'Redundant
Singles' that shows the wiring diagram for the Cirrus SR-22, and vacuum
system diagrams showing failure modes. Various backup ideas are
discussed. References are given to manufacturers who offer various
backup systems that should be of interest to anyone designing their
aircraft systems. A.S. can be reached at
www.aviationsafetymagazine.com/backissues
Howard Carter
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Took the Plunge! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
I am really happy with this message board.
With a community like this available, I took the first step toward a 601 XL.
I sent off for the plans. I am planning on getting the tail kit and
starting on it sometime before Christmas. HO HO HO.
I am a Test Pilot for Boeing and a pilot in the Reserves. I am current in
the KC-135 and the 767. I have also been a System Safety Engineer, Accident
Investigator and a Designer. I am used to working and flying heavies. I
have been dreaming about this for a long time. Been to Oshkosh twice,
looked at a lot of kits. I really looked hard at the RVs. They really are
great aircraft. But I really don't want to spend that much time building
and I am really just looking for a fun, simple, VFR aircraft. The XL looks
like it will fit the bill. I really miss just going up on a nice evening,
just enjoying the flight and talking to God. This is going to be a great
project.
Thanks for all of the great info.
Cheers
Matt Archer
Also:
I sent off an email to ZAC about the Lycoming vrs Jabaru question. Here is
their response:
Thanks for your message to Zenith Aircraft Company. You wrote us:
> I have been looking at the 601
> XL. I have some questions on the useful load difference between
> the Jabaru and the Lycoming. From what I have seen the Jabaru
> weighs about 178 and the Lycomning weighs 218, a 40 lb difference.
> However you advertise a useful load of 500 for the Lycoming and
> 605 for the Jabaru. Why the big difference.
The installed O-235 engine (with accessories) weighs approx 280 lbs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Usefull load
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
>
> Looking at ZAKs website I am trying to understand the differences in the
> useful load between the Jabaru and the Lycoming configurations. From what
> I have seen the Jabaru weighs about 178 and the Lycoming weighs 218, a 40
> lb difference. However they advertise a useful load of 500 for the
> Lycoming and 605 for the Jabaru. Why the big difference? Are my numbers
> off for the Lycoming?
>
> O% completed, 99% interested
>
> Thanks for the info
>
> Matt
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Simple Questions: Builders Logs and Vixen File |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
I sand lightly with fine sand paper.
Carlos
--- VideoFlyer@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
>
> Vixen file! Magic tool! Great for deburring! I used regular files, drill
> bits, de-burring tools.....in that order....till I finally bought a vixen file.
> I still have to use a de-burring tool in the tight spots, but the vixen file
> is great for most other jobs.
>
> Dave
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax engine oil |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Gates" <leogates@allvantage.com>
Shell's web site indicates Shell Advance is available overseas only (not in
the US).
Lockwood Aviation says, to use Mobil 1 MX4T - 50 Hr. Change if running
Unleaded auto fuel only and 33 Hr. change if using 100 LL more than 1/3rd of
the time.
-------Original Message-------
From: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax engine oil
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ronnie Koonce" <rlk@granderiver.net>
I want to use the Shell Advance VSX 4 oil, but cannot find anywhere to buy
it online. Any ideas? Thanks.
do not archive
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Took the Plunge! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
Congratulations! That's my take on it too.
I couldn't spend 3x as much time and 2x the money to build an rv.
I don't have either. And an xl is cheaper to fly than an rv.
It is ~33% slower but I'm used to it - I know what I'm missing.
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
131 hours
P.S. I plan to measure my dihedral and report - I do think that
1 wing is lower than the other.
Last weekend I replaced the tail light socket (the old one was
a p.o.s. - piece of s**t) and my cracked landing light lens.
And I went flying!
do not archive
On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Matt & Jo wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
> .........snip ....snip
> have been dreaming about this for a long time. Been to Oshkosh twice,
> looked at a lot of kits. I really looked hard at the RVs. They really are
> great aircraft. But I really don't want to spend that much time building
> and I am really just looking for a fun, simple, VFR aircraft. The XL looks
> like it will fit the bill. I really miss just going up on a nice evening,
> just enjoying the flight and talking to God. This is going to be a great
> project.
>
> Thanks for all of the great info.
>
> Cheers
>
> Matt Archer
>
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