Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:04 AM - Landings database (Bob Miller)
2. 04:38 AM - Re: Jabiru 3300 (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
3. 06:52 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 11/03/04 (Grant Corriveau)
4. 07:16 AM - Re: Jabiru 3300 (Jeffrey Glasserow)
5. 08:58 AM - Re: vixen file and sandbag loading ()
6. 09:04 AM - Logging Programs (DKSchoonover@cs.com)
7. 09:21 AM - "What's my Contribution used for?" [PLEASE READ!] (Matt Dralle)
8. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 11/03/04 (Bob Miller)
9. 12:09 PM - XL Bolt fairy (Jack Russell)
10. 12:36 PM - Re: Logging Programs (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
11. 12:56 PM - Re: Logging Programs (John Williamson)
12. 01:51 PM - Re: Logging Programs (Gary Craze)
13. 01:55 PM - Logging program (Howard Carter)
14. 03:57 PM - Re: Logging program (Matthew P. Cummings)
15. 06:57 PM - Re: XL Bolt fairy (Pwalsh4539@aol.com)
16. 07:50 PM - Re: XL Bolt fairy (Jack Russell)
17. 08:55 PM - Elliptical loading (George Swinford)
18. 11:01 PM - Re: XL Bolt fairy (wizard-24@juno.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Landings database |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Cy,
Thanks for the tip. For those of you trying the database, you have to
leave the "Manufacturer" field blank, and enter only 601 or 601.*HD in the
"Model" field, or you'll get few or no results. It's nice because it gives
their addresses so they can be reached by s-mail.
Bob
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
Did you mean the Jabiru 3300, the Australian made air-cooled engine? I've never
heard of a Sabiru and I don't think Subaru makes a 3300 and even if they did
it would be far too heavy for a CH 701.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In phase I testing.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Fulp"
>
> I'm looking for the "wet" weight for the SABIRU 3300.
Did you mean the Jabiru 3300, the Australian made air-cooled engine? I've never
heard of a Sabiru and I don't think Subaru makes a 3300 and even if they did
it would be far too heavy for a CH 701.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In phase I testing.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: "John Fulp" <JRFULP@NCIA.NET>
I'm looking for the "wet" weight for the SABIRU 3300.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 11/03/04 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> so after your reply am thinking the way to
> go might be to get proficient in aborting take-offs on long runways after
> getting
> above ground effect.
The zodie is small enough that even the misbalance of one large pilot and no
pax will produce a noticeable roll - of course to the left. I think aileron
trim is a really useful feature on this plane. My 'aerodynmic/electric'
trim is useless .. too small and to far inboard, probably. The MAC stuff
was also expensive. My next try will be the bungee/mechanical system that
is viewable on ch601.org. Simple, clean, easy and less expensive!
Remember that if you find a wing SERIOUSLY 'heavy', use the rudder to help
level the aircraft. IF it's getting worse with speed, SLOW DOWN (but not
too much! ;-0 ). I can't imagine a wing being so far out of 'whack' that
full aileron deflection can't handle it (especially on a 601 with those huge
ailerons). And once the coupled power of the rudder is added, any errors in
construction that would cause an accident would have to be of such magnitude
that you couldn't possibly miss them during inspection - could you.... ?!
Unless you tried taking off with one wing NOT installed?! ;-)
"Be careful out there"
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
do not archive
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow" <jeffglass@starband.net>
I saw the jabiru 3300 and 2200 at the LSA expo last weekend in Sebring. I
talked to Pete Krotge, the importer, and I believe he said that 180 lbs WAS
the wet weight. It sure was pretty. All component parts are CNC machined
and were very light to hand. (Also, Zenith states on their web site 180 lbs
with all accessories; starter; alternator, carb, etc.) I then got to fly
their Esqual with the 3300 (with Bing carb) and was very impressed with its
performance and lack of engine noise. The HDS I think I just bought has a
Lycoming 0-235 and the jabiru is MUCH lighter. The Lycoming, with everything
hanging on it is about 218-220 lbs. Good performer though!
Jeff Glasserow
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
bryanmmartin@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru 3300
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
Did you mean the Jabiru 3300, the Australian made air-cooled engine? I've
never heard of a Sabiru and I don't think Subaru makes a 3300 and even if
they did it would be far too heavy for a CH 701.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In phase I testing.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Fulp"
>
> I'm looking for the "wet" weight for the SABIRU 3300.
Did you mean the Jabiru 3300, the Australian made air-cooled engine? I've
never heard of a Sabiru and I don't think Subaru makes a 3300 and even if
they did it would be far too heavy for a CH 701.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In phase I testing.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: "John Fulp" <JRFULP@NCIA.NET>
I'm looking for the "wet" weight for the SABIRU 3300.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: vixen file and sandbag loading |
Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:56:02 -0600
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
OK, so if I understand the concept correctly, we visualize a football, elongate
it from wing root to tip, and that's roughly the pattern of loading? My interest
is a little more than academic, since I have a wild idea for wing construction
that one of these days I'd like to test, potentially for a somewhat larger
ultralite.
Thanx,
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: George Swinford<mailto:grs-pms@comcast.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 7:46 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: vixen file and sandbag loading
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net<mailto:grs-pms@comcast.net>>
Hello Paul and other listers:
I couldn't locate a vixen file at my local hardware stores, but I found a laminate
file, used for formica countertops and such. It works much the same for
deburring the edges of cut sheets. I never tried it for deburring holes, but
for aluminum sheet and plate it works great. I deburr holes with a drill bit
chucked into a cordless screwdriver. That turns slowly enough that I don't countersink
the hole. It's more like using a handheld drill bit.
When loading a wing for static test the sandbags are stacked to duplicate the
airload distribution that the wing will see in the flight condition being simulated.
The load distribution from root to tip is roughly elliptical. The actual
distribution depends on the planform shape of the surface being tested.
For a rectangular planform like the 701, 801 and 601HD the distribution is biased
somewhat more toward the tip. For a tapered planform like the 601 HDS or
the XL it's pretty close to elliptical. That's one of the reasons for tapering
the planform.
George
Message 6
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| Subject: | Logging Programs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: DKSchoonover@cs.com
Just ordered plans for 601SL and am looking for any information on
construction logging programs. I know they are good ones out there but need to
find
them. Thanks.
Hopefully a new builder.
Don S.
Message 7
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| Subject: | "What's my Contribution used for?" [PLEASE READ!] |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?", and this is certainly
a valid question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List
support enables. It provides for the very expensive, business-class,
high-speed T1 Internet connection used on the List, insuring maximum
performance and minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays
for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest
performance possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine and
List Browser. It pays for 16+ years worth of online archive data available
for instant random access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing,
developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List
Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, and PhotoShare.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and
your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from
moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer
viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements
about these days? I will venture to say - next to none...
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many desirable aspects
of this most valuable List service. Please support it today with your List
Contribution. Its the best investment you can make in your Sport - BAR NONE!
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 11/03/04 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Grant,
Thanks for the info. And the reassurance! I'll have to remember the rudder
assist, and practice it before the first flight, as that would not have been
a natural response for me.
I have installed the bungee aileron trim on ch601.org and am very happy with
it. Even though I haven't flown yet, it seems like it would be more
effective and produce less drag than the electric system.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Corriveau" <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 11/03/04
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
>> so after your reply am thinking the way to
>> go might be to get proficient in aborting take-offs on long runways after
>> getting
>> above ground effect.
>
> The zodie is small enough that even the misbalance of one large pilot and
> no
> pax will produce a noticeable roll - of course to the left. I think
> aileron
> trim is a really useful feature on this plane. My 'aerodynmic/electric'
> trim is useless .. too small and to far inboard, probably. The MAC stuff
> was also expensive. My next try will be the bungee/mechanical system that
> is viewable on ch601.org. Simple, clean, easy and less expensive!
>
> Remember that if you find a wing SERIOUSLY 'heavy', use the rudder to help
> level the aircraft. IF it's getting worse with speed, SLOW DOWN (but not
> too much! ;-0 ). I can't imagine a wing being so far out of 'whack' that
> full aileron deflection can't handle it (especially on a 601 with those
> huge
> ailerons). And once the coupled power of the rudder is added, any errors
> in
> construction that would cause an accident would have to be of such
> magnitude
> that you couldn't possibly miss them during inspection - could you.... ?!
> Unless you tried taking off with one wing NOT installed?! ;-)
>
> "Be careful out there"
>
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
You know how when you put together that Christmas toy for the kid and you end up
with those extra parts? I think that the nut and bolt fairy has been in my XL
hardware kit. I have all of the major components done including mounting the
wings using the twelve AN5-15a bolts but now I find fourteen AN5-16a bolts left
in the kit which I have no idea where they would be used. I have gone back
over the plans and can't find the use for them anywhere. Did I miss something
here? Thanks
Just a little concerned.
Jack in Clovis ca
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Logging Programs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Don:
I just started using Kitlog Pro and I am happy with it. there was a writeup
on it in a recent issue of Kitplanes, but you can find all the info on thier
website _www.kitlog.com_ (http://www.kitlog.com)
Hey, for $40, how can you beat that? You'll spend more than that on beer
when you need help getting the 601 out to the airport for final assembly !!
You picked a great airplane and a great group of builders here to help.
Regards,
Tracy
In a message dated 11/4/2004 12:05:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
DKSchoonover@cs.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: DKSchoonover@cs.com
Just ordered plans for 601SL and am looking for any information on
construction logging programs. I know they are good ones out there but need
to find
them. Thanks.
Hopefully a new builder.
Don S.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Logging Programs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <stol_airplane@comcast.net>
I do all my construction log with Microsoft Word.
When I'm finished, I format the document and print it out and bind it
together to make a permanent record.
During the building process, I make it into a webpage so all can see.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 697 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot
Zenith CH701 Project
http://home.comcast.net/~stol_airplane
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/stol_airplane
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Logging Programs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
I just starting using Kitlog Pro. www.kitlog.com
It runs about $40, but you can try it free for a couple of weeks.
I did it all "manually" on MS Word on my last project, and this is
certainly more organized. There was a good writeup on it in a recent
Kitplanes article.
So far so good. My only complaint is that it only allows you to add 3
pictures per log entry. I suppose that if you do a lot in one day, you
could break it into multiple log entries for that day with 3 pictures
per entry.
Maybe I just take too many pictures !! (ha ha!!)
Rgds,
Gary Craze
N801GC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DKSchoonover@cs.com
Just ordered plans for 601SL and am looking for any information on
construction logging programs. I know they are good ones out there but
need to find
them. Thanks.
Hopefully a new builder.
Don S.
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Howard Carter <howado@cwia.com>
for Don S;
the kitlog.com program is very useful. You can get a free trial
version, or pay $40 and get full operation.( The trial version is not
fully functional). I highly recommend this program.
Howard Carter
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Logging program |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matthew P. Cummings" <cummings@stingray.net>
On Thu, 2004-11-04 at 13:55 -0800, Howard Carter wrote:
> version, or pay $40 and get full operation.( The trial version is not
> fully functional). I highly recommend this program.
It's a time limited demo, everything works for I think 30 days. I tried
it out and bought it because it's that good. The version he's working
on will be even better, he says he'll have web page publishing in it.
IMO, you can't go wrong with it.
--
Matthew P. Cummings
1974 Cessna 150L N10667
Moberly, MO (MBY)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: XL Bolt fairy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Pwalsh4539@aol.com
I am still using extra bolts from my kit on lawnmowers and misc. repairs. I
built mine in 1996/7, so there must have been quite a few left over! Of course
I cannot say for certain, but I'll bet you just had some extras.
Patrick Walsh
601HD
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: XL Bolt fairy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Patrick: I would not mind having the small stuff left over and I do expect it,
but these are like wing mounting bolts and quite a few to boot(14). If nobody
has discovered why they are in the kit I guess I will call ZAC. Thanks for your
insight. Jack in Clovis CA
do not archive
Pwalsh4539@aol.com wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Pwalsh4539@aol.com
I am still using extra bolts from my kit on lawnmowers and misc. repairs. I
built mine in 1996/7, so there must have been quite a few left over! Of course
I cannot say for certain, but I'll bet you just had some extras.
Patrick Walsh
601HD
do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Elliptical loading |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Hi Paul:
Imagine the profile of that football sliced from end to end and then cut down the
middle at a right angle. The top quarter of the ellipse has the approximate
shape of the spanwise airload on one half of the wing. If you think of it as
a curve plotted on graph paper the horizontal axis represents the percent of
half-span, with the root being zero% and the tip 100%. The vertical axis represents
the load in pounds or whatever units you choose. A more realistic analysis
accounts for the lift across the fuselage and the shape of the curve gets
more complicated.
Before you do anything drastic like designing a wing, remember that all this is
a simple approximation. As I recall,"Theory of Wing Sections" has an explanation
of how the airloads are calculated. "Theory of Wing Sections" is a classic
text, still available from aviation booksellers. Any number of aircraft stress
analysis texts also touch on this. I have no experience with the computer
design programs on the market now, but I imagine that they incorporate such
an analysis.
Evans "Lightplane Designer's Handbook" (first edition) shows the shape of lift
distribution curves and the effect of different planform shapes on p.105. Aircraft
Spruce sells that one.
Whereever this is taking you, good luck.
George
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: XL Bolt fairy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> XL hardware kit. I have all of the major
> components done including mounting the wings using the twelve
> AN5-15a bolts but now I find fourteen AN5-16a bolts left in the kit
> which I have no idea where they would be used.
Jack, don't fret....I'm practically finished with the airframe, and I
have lots of hardware left over. I think the reason for that is the
supplied hardware kit is the same for those who are scratch building, and
with the kits some (but not many) parts are already assembled. This
probably accounts for some of the extra parts. Just do like I did and
make sure there aren't any empty holes in the plane. :)
Mike Fortunato
601XL
do not archive
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