Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:05 AM - 701 fuse: I have to climb in?! (Tony Bonsell)
2. 03:59 AM - Re: 701 fuse: I have to climb in?! (Elwood140@aol.com)
3. 04:24 AM - Emailing: www.tampabayaerosport (ron wehba)
4. 04:29 AM - Re: 701 fuse: I have to climb in?! (owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com)
5. 06:42 AM - Re: 701 fuse: I have to climb in?! (Larry)
6. 07:28 AM - Re: N166DK CH601 HDS Crash (Larry McFarland)
7. 08:09 AM - Re: N166DK CH601 HDS Crash (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
8. 10:22 AM - Re: N166DK CH601 HDS Crash (kevinbonds@comcast.net)
9. 10:37 AM - Heavy wing on first flights (601 HDS) (charles.long@gm.com)
10. 10:42 AM - Re: N166DK CH601 HDS Crash (Larry McFarland)
11. 11:07 AM - Re: 701 extra ribs? (Gary Gower)
12. 11:11 AM - Re: N166DK CH601 HDS Crash (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
13. 03:39 PM - Re: Heavy wing on first flights (601 HDS) (Cdngoose)
14. 05:05 PM - CH801 bungie (Thomas Butler)
15. 06:10 PM - wind (Jeff Paden)
16. 08:34 PM - Re: wind (Bryan Martin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 701 fuse: I have to climb in?! |
0.51 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tony Bonsell <tbonsell@luxuria.com>
Okay, I'm putting my 701 rear fuse together and now the manual is telling me
I have to climb inside it to do the gussets! Is this for real? It says to
put padding down, but the bottom is curved!
Somebody please tell me there's a better way!
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 701 fuse: I have to climb in?! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com
Tony, I hate to tell you this but there ain't any other way to install the
gussets. A folded quilt works well for padding. Be absolutely sure that the
fuse is straight and plumb before installing gussets.
Regards,
Larry Wood
(N701LW reserved)
Do Not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Emailing: www.tampabayaerosport |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@cox.net>
anyone know anything about these? scroll to bottom under engine conversions.
Your files are attached and ready to send with this message.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 701 fuse: I have to climb in?! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by:
Hi Tony.
When you install the gussets in the fuse at the most aft braces, remember
to gut away in the gusset for the rudder cables. Otherwise you will have
to do it later with an inspection hole at the rear fuse.
Regards,
Johann G.
Iceland
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com
>
> Tony, I hate to tell you this but there ain't any other way to install the
> gussets. A folded quilt works well for padding. Be absolutely sure that
> the
> fuse is straight and plumb before installing gussets.
>
> Regards,
>
> Larry Wood
> (N701LW reserved)
>
> Do Not archive
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 701 fuse: I have to climb in?! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm@isp.com>
There is a better way. Cut a piece of plywood to fit in the bottom down the
middle. Use spacers out of plywood to put between the bottom braces for the
big piece of plywood to set on. That way you are putting the big plywood
directly on your braces. All little padding under the fuselage between it
and the floor would also help. The bottom is curved? I don't understand
what you mean, my bottom fuselage is flat as a flitter. While you are there
consider "X" braces, it will stop the beer cannoning. The way I did it is
on my site, I'm sure there are other ways. Larry N1345L
www.angelfire.com/un/ch701.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Bonsell" <tbonsell@luxuria.com>
<PLING_QUERY@mail14.mdx.safepages.com>; <Subject@mail14.mdx.safepages.com>;
<has@mail14.mdx.safepages.com>; <exclamation@mail14.mdx.safepages.com>;
<mark@mail14.mdx.safepages.com>; <and@mail14.mdx.safepages.com>;
<question@mail14.mdx.safepages.com>; <mark@mail14.mdx.safepages.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 fuse: I have to climb in?!
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tony Bonsell <tbonsell@luxuria.com>
>
> Okay, I'm putting my 701 rear fuse together and now the manual is telling
me
> I have to climb inside it to do the gussets! Is this for real? It says to
> put padding down, but the bottom is curved!
>
> Somebody please tell me there's a better way!
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: N166DK CH601 HDS Crash |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Kelly,
I'd recommend a 4" diameter hole, manually cut with a fly-cutter.
(no drill but for the center hole) I've also got a good design for
the inspection plate with a spyder using a rivnut to hold it.
These provide a single screw removal and are very secure.
The plate is turned to thin the flange so it sets into the hole.
I have a couple of spares if you're interested.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N166DK CH601 HDS Crash
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
>
>
>>the fairlead at bulkhead B5 for the elevator top bell
>> crank. If the fairlead itself were ever to let go, the cable would have
>> a
>> lot of slack and up elevator would be reduced or not available.
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> That is scary now that you mention it Larry, good observation.
> Especially if one were to install the rivet head on the aluminum bulkhead
> side and the stem going into the plastic fairlead WITHOUT a backup washer.
> Sounds like I'll be cutting an inspection panel soon.
>
> Kelly
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | N166DK CH601 HDS Crash |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
This is a good discussion...Is anybody at the point where they could
determine how much slack the would be if the fairlead dissapeared?
I do remember being concerned that a slack cable could bounce out of the
slot in the fairlead so I drillied to tiny holes in the "Lower legs" of
the slot and safety wired across the slot. This prevents the cable from
coming out.
I may have bolted the fairlead in place but I can't remember?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N166DK CH601 HDS Crash
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Kelly,
I'd recommend a 4" diameter hole, manually cut with a fly-cutter. (no
drill but for the center hole) I've also got a good design for the
inspection plate with a spyder using a rivnut to hold it. These provide
a single screw removal and are very secure. The plate is turned to thin
the flange so it sets into the hole. I have a couple of spares if you're
interested.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N166DK CH601 HDS Crash
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
>
>
>>the fairlead at bulkhead B5 for the elevator top bell
>> crank. If the fairlead itself were ever to let go, the cable would
>>have
>> a
>> lot of slack and up elevator would be reduced or not available.
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> That is scary now that you mention it Larry, good observation.
> Especially if one were to install the rivet head on the aluminum
> bulkhead side and the stem going into the plastic fairlead WITHOUT a
> backup washer. Sounds like I'll be cutting an inspection panel soon.
>
> Kelly
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | N166DK CH601 HDS Crash |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
I had the same thought as Frank about the long runway surrounded by fields. My
home airfield will likely be MQY Smyrna, Tennessee. It is an ex-military base
with an 8000' runway. Every once-in-while a 747 mistakes the field for Nashville
Int. (BNA) and starts a decent into our field. Several years back a guy actually
landed there and couldn't figure out where the Terminal was. Sounds like
a good place to do a test flight or at least, taxi tests.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville Tn
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>
>
> This is truly a tragic accident.
> a short runway surrounded by trees. Many first flight flight accidents
> could have been avoided by choosing a more suitable airport, i.e long
> runway surrounded by flat fields. Yes you may have to travel and set it
> up with your DAR but surely better to do this and avoid disaster.
>
I had the same thought as Frank about the long runway surrounded by fields. My
home airfield will likely be MQY Smyrna, Tennessee. It is an ex-military base
with an 8000' runway. Every once-in-while a 747 mistakes the field for Nashville
Int. (BNA) and starts a decent into our field. Several years back a guy actually
landed there and couldn't figure out where the Terminal was. Sounds like
a good place to do a test flight or at least, taxi tests.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville Tn
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<FRANK.HINDE@HP.COM>
This is truly a tragic accident.
a short runway surrounded by trees. Many first flight flight accidents
could have been avoided by choosing a more suitable airport, i.e long
runway surrounded by flat fields. Yes you may have to travel and set it
up with your DAR but surely better to do this and avoid disaster.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Heavy wing on first flights (601 HDS) |
20, 2004) at 11/10/2004 01:36:50 PM,
Serialize complete at 11/10/2004 01:36:50 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
There have been much conversation about Heavy wings, especially in
light of the recent tragedy. Some wing heaviness will be associated with
flying Solo. To eliminate this issue on my first flights, I plan to fly
with full fuel on the right tank, and 4 gallons less in the left tank.
That will more or less balance out my 165 lb weight. Half way through my
flight I plan to switch tanks so when ready to land, will be balanced once
again. This strategy should work well for flights an hour or less in
length. Even a 1 hour flight (5 gal/hr with Jab3300), should still leave
more than 3 gallons useable in the lowest tank at flights end.
As someone else has already suggested, another wise precaution
before the first flight is to run a level along the bottom of both wings
both inboard and outboar of the splice plates. I'm not sure what's a
reasonable error for this, someone else may want to comment on this one.
In regard to this whole lesson learned thing, would someone out
there be willing to keep a database on their websight that provides a list
of valuable lessons for everyone to review before their first flight? I
can think of a handful of things already:
AD checklist (splice plates, rudder petals, engine mounts at the
longerons, wheel bearings, etc.)
First flight checklist items such as those described above. In
particular, safety of flight items such as checking your trim tabs to be
sure they are moving the correct direction.
Sanity checks for such things as weight and balance and cable
tension. What I mean here is what weight would you reasonable expect on
the nose wheel for a certain engine just as a double check.
flight. The fairlead for the upper elevator cable would be a good example
of something we might all want to provide some redundancy for. This stuff
can be very subtle, so when someone stumbles across something, it would be
great to pass the word along.
This is just a thought starter. The recent tragedy reminds us of
"How Fragile We Are" and the need to promote safety as much as possibly
while still enjoying our dreams of flight!
Chuck Long
N601LE, 98% complete
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: N166DK CH601 HDS Crash |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Frank,
I remember letting the cable down once when removing the elevator and
stabilizer and noticed
the fairlead gave up almost all of the up elevator. I considered putting a
wire across the plastic
ends, but figured the wire better placed in holes in the flange in case the
plastic quit on the rivets
or cracked or anything else. The wire would work in a pinch with or without
the plastic. It doesn't
do any work when cables are snug, but if they get loose........
I'd already closed up and had to work from a 4" inspection hole when the
wire was added.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: N166DK CH601 HDS Crash
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> This is a good discussion...Is anybody at the point where they could
> determine how much slack the would be if the fairlead dissapeared?
>
> I do remember being concerned that a slack cable could bounce out of the
> slot in the fairlead so I drillied to tiny holes in the "Lower legs" of
> the slot and safety wired across the slot. This prevents the cable from
> coming out.
>
> I may have bolted the fairlead in place but I can't remember?
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
> McFarland
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N166DK CH601 HDS Crash
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
> --> <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Kelly,
> I'd recommend a 4" diameter hole, manually cut with a fly-cutter. (no
> drill but for the center hole) I've also got a good design for the
> inspection plate with a spyder using a rivnut to hold it. These provide
> a single screw removal and are very secure. The plate is turned to thin
> the flange so it sets into the hole. I have a couple of spares if you're
> interested.
>
> Larry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N166DK CH601 HDS Crash
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
>>
>>
>>>the fairlead at bulkhead B5 for the elevator top bell
>>> crank. If the fairlead itself were ever to let go, the cable would
>>>have
>>> a
>>> lot of slack and up elevator would be reduced or not available.
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> That is scary now that you mention it Larry, good observation.
>> Especially if one were to install the rivet head on the aluminum
>> bulkhead side and the stem going into the plastic fairlead WITHOUT a
>> backup washer. Sounds like I'll be cutting an inspection panel soon.
>>
>> Kelly
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 11
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DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=TwzwclsC1W5mYt3IWd8l3KmDOKNDnJCBqJg9eB5fqcIa92GyBzZJNGsPbqb68s1I5RnyEDUWYfzH07zOzxF4MR2n4PPpy+ZTyGYATcdvs59D7k+O+/RPHIL+JgAaLoFDadPdH9Z3upKLSQ0fZ2Q6dPRj8EPERamb6csXSxtVOD4=
;
| Subject: | Re: 701 extra ribs? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello John,
We are doing the test flights of our 701, Our strip is at 5,029 ft
ASL and the plane (with the 912S) realy climbs like a homesick angel at
50 mph indicated (5,500 rpm) The wing design is perfect for the plane.
We are trying hard to fly the "hours" out, to make our first Fly-in
"down" to the seashore next weekend, here is getting a little cold in
the mornings (about 50F).
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- jnbolding1 <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1"
> <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>
> OH !! I thought we were talking about ZENITH wings .. you threw a
> sheep in there with the goats. Just because they are similar doesn't
> mean you can swap parts and come up with the same load paths and
> ultimate strengths.
> I don't know if it's still the case but I was told by Danny at
> Skyshops that airfoil shaped angles instead of full ribs were added
> to the three spots on the 701 wing where there is a lot of space
> between the ribs, this held oil canning to a minimum and resulted in
> more speed. However this gave no increase in gross weight .. Tried to
> get Chris to fess up on the wings used on the 701 in Europe (which
> are longer) but he wouldn't give any info, only saying that they
> didn't help or hurt. (I have a little problem with that assessment)
> LOW&SLOW John
>
>
> >Check their site, it's in one of the studies.
> >
> >http://www.dedaliusaviation.com/newdedalius/anglais.htm
> >
> >There are over 8 more sq ft of surface area, you figure. Larry
> N1345L
> >
> >Do Not Archive
> >
> >
>
> >>
> >> They add a little weight, but also increase
> >> >useful load by 100 pounds.
> >>
> >>
> >> Who says??
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | N166DK CH601 HDS Crash |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Exactly, you can tank off and land several times in that distance....I
did serveral runs at 1 to 2 ft above the runway without ever leaving the
center line before my first flight.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kevinbonds@comcast.net
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: N166DK CH601 HDS Crash
--> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
I had the same thought as Frank about the long runway surrounded by
fields. My home airfield will likely be MQY Smyrna, Tennessee. It is an
ex-military base with an 8000' runway. Every once-in-while a 747
mistakes the field for Nashville Int. (BNA) and starts a decent into our
field. Several years back a guy actually landed there and couldn't
figure out where the Terminal was. Sounds like a good place to do a test
flight or at least, taxi tests.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville Tn
Message 13
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| Subject: | Heavy wing on first flights (601 HDS) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
On this letter I have to agree with Chuck and have started such a page
on my website. IF you all can go to
http://www.ch601.org/resources/valuable_lessons.htm
And provide me with further input to this valuable page.
Mark Townsend
Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L
Osprey 2 serial # 751
www.ch601.org
www.Osprey2.com
In regard to this whole lesson learned thing, would someone out
there be willing to keep a database on their websight that provides a
list
of valuable lessons for everyone to review before their first flight? I
can think of a handful of things already:
Chuck Long
N601LE, 98% complete
Message 14
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DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=Ly4OZnsdETgDUQ0cGw+vDqCdLtABL627e9q10ezPVDvI8vvQ578HRYpL5J0Nyz5vpNec3/hXgGDBjwTgLidvPFSb9/dXxPmMHtT111vym3x9KAcJCZEp2gKmj7e7DknNLpc7To9wAEOS5FkgrIuVIyyZt2RPfHVUjRzThLTqX/Y=
;
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Thomas Butler <tabranch@yahoo.com>
At someones suggestion I used a 900# 1080HD instead of the Zenith supplied 950#
1280HD bungee. At 50 hours, I have about 2 inches of sag (O-360 eng). I will
be using the plane "off airport" as I gain more confidence in my slow speed
landing. Should I install the heavier bungee to avoid excessive bounces on
rough terrain?
Tom Butler
N801TB
50 hours
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
Hello again everyone.
I once again could use some input from anyone willing to voice an opinion.
As you all know I have been test flying my CH-640 and was very happy until a
few days ago.
Up to that point I was flying with almost no wind, now that the weather is
rolling in I have done two flights with winds in the 15 - 20 kts range.
The both of these flights scared the heck out of me as I was not sure that I
was going to be able to keep control of the aircraft.
The first one was a 20 kts direct cross-wind which I have done many times in
my CH-300. However with the CH-640 the aircraft was being tossed around
like paper in the wind. Normally this would not bother me, however I did
get a little scare when I tried to turn from the down-wind leg to base.
When I attempted this the aircraft simply would not turn. I found that I
was at full left aileron and the aircraft was not turning.
So I pulled back the throttle a bit, pointed the nose down about 20 degrees
and was able to force the aircraft to turn left base. The entire time I was
being thrown all over the place and the winds really were not that bad. As
a matter of fact I flew my friends C-172 and it was very smooth the entire
time.
I am confused why my CH-640 was being thrown all over the place while his
aircraft was able to fly just fine in the same wind.
I have re-checked all controls and cables only to find that everything is
rigged to specs. Does anyone have any idea of what I should check next? I
was thinking that maybe the ailerons needed to be down more. The drawings
show them as 10mm down from the trailing edge but when I fly both ailerons
are still above the trailing edge in level flight.
Just looking for any / all opinions.
Thanks
Jeff Paden
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 11/10/04 9:10 PM, Jeff Paden at jeffpaden@madbbs.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
>
> The entire time I was
> being thrown all over the place and the winds really were not that bad. As
> a matter of fact I flew my friends C-172 and it was very smooth the entire
> time.
>
> I am confused why my CH-640 was being thrown all over the place while his
> aircraft was able to fly just fine in the same wind.
>
I assume you were flying with your friend in the 172 and alone in the CH
640. In that case the Skyhawk would be about 500 lbs heavier than the 640.
That gives the Skyhawk a higher wing loading and a lot more resistance to
turbulence and the Skyhawk is built to be more stable to begin with.
I don't know why you had so much trouble making the turn to base but the
extra weight and stability probably explains the smoother ride in the
Skyhawk.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In Phase I testing.
do not archive.
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