Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:21 AM - Re: 601XL Landing & Nose Gear (Benford2@aol.com)
2. 07:01 AM - door window (Ronnie Koonce)
3. 07:19 AM - 701 bungee (Ronnie Koonce)
4. 10:01 AM - Re: 601XL Landing & Nose Gear (Stanley Challgren)
5. 11:35 AM - Re: 701 bungee (Chuck Deiterich)
6. 11:39 AM - Re: door window (Chuck Deiterich)
7. 11:43 AM - CH701 Question (Howard Carter)
8. 02:42 PM - Rivet questions (Keith Norton)
9. 03:56 PM - Re: Rivet questions (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
10. 04:10 PM - Re: Rivet questions (Ed Kramer)
11. 05:15 PM - Re: Rivet questions (Rico Voss)
12. 07:04 PM - Re: Rivet questions (Gary Craze)
13. 07:45 PM - Re: Rivet questions (Roger Roy)
14. 07:54 PM - Wheel Fairings (Greg Ferris)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Landing & Nose Gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 11/12/2004 1:30:07 PM Mountain Standard Time,
fjones@sympatico.ca writes:
>
> Is anyone else having trouble gently setting the nose gear down on
> landing? It seems that no matter how hard I try and no matter how gently
> the main gear comes down, the nose just wants to come down right away
> and there's no way to let it down nicely. I'm assuming this is a
> feature.
>
> Frank Jones
> C-GYXQ 601XL 912S
>
>
801's do the same thing.. Must be a Chris Heinz feature....
Ben Haas N801BH do not archive
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ronnie Koonce" <rlk@granderiver.net>
Has anyone put a sliding or otherwise opening window in a 701 or 801? I have the
bubble doors, looking for ANY ideas.
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ronnie Koonce" <rlk@granderiver.net>
Anyone know a part # for the bungee, possibly from aircraft spruce?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Landing & Nose Gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
Frank:
Our 601 HDS has much the same problem. I believe it is due to the
forward CG that normally exists on our aircraft. We finally put a 5
pound lead weight just forward of the tail skag and that reduced the
rate of nose down movement after touchdown. We have a heavier battery
in the engine compartment than many and either moving it to just behind
the seat or replacing it with a smaller battery would probably have the
same impact on the landing CG. However, we have had no start problems
as many report on and so are reluctant to change what is working.
BTW, Jeff Small, our most knowledgeable 601 spokesman, fabricated the
lead weight for us.
Stan
601HDS/Jab 3300
160 hours
On Nov 12, 2004, at 1:24 PM, Frank Jones wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
>
> Is anyone else having trouble gently setting the nose gear down on
> landing? It seems that no matter how hard I try and no matter how
> gently
> the main gear comes down, the nose just wants to come down right away
> and there's no way to let it down nicely. I'm assuming this is a
> feature.
>
> Frank Jones
> C-GYXQ 601XL 912S
>
>
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Ronnie
ZAC supplies a 9010HD for the 701 with a Rotax 912.
On my 701 with the lighter Jabiru 2200 I use a 8097. I have 140 landings
over two years and no sag, but I have flexed it 3 or 4 inches.
ACS has the #9010HD in their catalog.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronnie Koonce" <rlk@granderiver.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 bungee
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ronnie Koonce" <rlk@granderiver.net>
>
> Anyone know a part # for the bungee, possibly from aircraft spruce?
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Ronnie,
I put a round (~3") snap vent in each door. They work great even on hot days
as soon as the engine starts. ACS P/N CC3251.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronnie Koonce" <rlk@granderiver.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: door window
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ronnie Koonce" <rlk@granderiver.net>
>
> Has anyone put a sliding or otherwise opening window in a 701 or 801? I
have the bubble doors, looking for ANY ideas.
>
>
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Howard Carter <howado@cwia.com>
Has anyone built a Pegastol wing and tried it on a CH701? Chris Heintz
says he doubts the design is really good for +9g, and points out that
the rest of the airplane remains a +6g design..
The automatic slat feature means that the fixed slat position compromise
between best lift and minimum drag is eliminated. Dedalius claims 21 mph
stall speed and 125 mph Vne. Comments?
Howard Carter
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Norton <keithnorton@mac.com>
I'm working on my 701 rudder and I have some riveting questions.
First, has anyone built a Zenith using primarily solid rivets? I have lots of
experience and the tools for using them and I don't like Avex rivets so far.
I know there are some places where a blind rivet is necessary because of access
but are there any problems with using solid rivets? I also wonder if smaller
solid rivets could be substituted since they have more shear strength than the
same size Avex. This would make driving them easier on the thin stock.
Second, when I pull the Avex rivets with either a hand tool or the Zenith supplied
gun, they always leave a small gap between the outer edge of the rivet and
the skin. Is that really how it is supposed to look? I've taken the pressure
on the gun all the way to 90psi and it seems to me that it pulls very weakly.
The stem doesn't come out of the back of the gun but rather stays in the nose.
That doesn't seem right. I certainly don't have a problem with the gun jumping,
it barely pulls the rivets. I am using the Zenith heads and regulator.
The regulator is wide open, although I've tried every setting.
Thanks for any help,
Keith Norton
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
In a message dated 11/13/2004 keithnorton@mac.com writes:
<<<when I pull the Avex rivets with either a hand tool or the Zenith supplied
gun, they always leave a small gap between the outer edge of the rivet and
the skin.>>>
<<<I've taken the pressure on the gun all the way to 90psi and it seems to me
that it pulls very weakly. >>>>
Something ain't right!!!!
<<<<The stem doesn't come out of the back of the gun but rather stays in the
nose. That doesn't seem right.>>>>
Gravity will pull the stem out the back...or out the front....depending on
which way the gun is pointed after you release the trigger.
I have had some "purists" in my shop who turn up their noses at the Avex
rivets. One even said that I would have a "much better plane" if I would swicth
to solid rivets. To each his own, I guess.
But it's fun to watch their reaction when I "pull" a line of 30 rivets in 60
seconds!
Dave
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Norton <keithnorton@mac.com>
>
>First, I'm working on my 701 rudder and I have some riveting questions.
> First, has anyone built a Zenith using primarily solid rivets? I have
> lots of experience and the tools for >using them and I don't like Avex
> rivets so far. I know there are some places where a blind rivet is
> >necessary because of access but are there any problems with using solid
> rivets? I also wonder if smaller >solid rivets could be substituted since
> they have more shear strength than the same size Avex.
Keith,
I used the rivets the designer called for which I believe is the best
option. So far I've completed the rudder, both wings & 50% of the
flaperons. In my opinion the airplane is not designed to use solid rivets
because access to both sides of the material is rare. I don't think you want
to buck solid rivets on .016 skins. Chris says a good rule of thumb is to
use a ratio of 5- blind rivets to 3-solid rivets of the same size or use a
larger blind rivet to achieve equal strength. So, I guess a smaller solid
rivet would be acceptable.
> Second, when I pull the Avex rivets with either a hand tool or the Zenith
> supplied gun, they always leave a >small gap between the outer edge of the
> rivet and the skin. Is that really how it is supposed to look?
I use a pneumatic puller & the rivets are flush to the material. Maybe your
canting the rivet head or not applying enough downward pressure on the rivet
to the material.
Hope this helps!
Ed Kramer
West Seneca, NY
CH 701
edair701@adelphia.net
Build Status: Stalled!
Completed: Rudder, Left wing, Right wing.
Working On: Flaperons 50%
Message 11
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DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=NzmhAWwN09qGU3FIgx14qXORmdP6g+xmNJljysisio2cQDyE3zyTeDwU9YzEk67nEzoAffH94FYvJHB2uduT/j04FDaBj4K3KNjDn2iG1In9b7DeNva1QgOpMf58lkHG7te65lsRKWqPSqJRQp4nWiznWIY2AKyHsa1HZGAXskI=
;
| Subject: | Re: Rivet questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rico Voss <vozzen@yahoo.com>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Norton
> <
> > First, has anyone built a Zenith using primarily
> solid rivets? >
Keith--
This is probably well-covered in the archives, but I
think the bottom line is:
1. If you want to put the time and effort into bucking
the flush rivets in order to have a fast plane, you
should be looking at RVs. The Chris Heinz designs are
elegant in their simplicity of building, not in speed.
> Second, when I pull the Avex rivets with either a
> hand tool or the Zenith
> > supplied gun, they always leave a >small gap
> between the outer edge of the
> > rivet and the skin. Is that really how it is
> supposed to look?
2. Sounds like you might not be using the domed head
on the rivet gun. If the dome is deep enough, the
edge of the rivet should be pulled (pushed) down
flush. Hmmm...[just re-read "Zenith gun"]... are you
using the right sized head for the rivet?
3. Like Ed said, after pulling, the rivet stem ends
up where-ever gravity takes it -- at least on mine.
good luck,
Rico, XL/3300, fusing
do not archive
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
This will be the third plane I've done using Avex blind rivets, and I
know of at least four others. All are in perfect shape, have hundreds
of hours on them and have never had any type of structural or skin
failure.
No disrespect to the RV guys, but...those "purists" who don't expand
their knowledge or building horizons are left to only one type of
building medium that hasn't changed much in over 50 years.
I will say that the gun from Zenith seems to pull softer than the $50
unit I bought from Harbor Freight several years ago. But I'm pulling
the A4 rivets at 40psi and the A5 rivets at 50psi and the stems are
popping fine with the Zenith gun.
Also, like below, unless I'm pulling horizontally or upside down, the
stems will fall back out the front. If I'm pulling rivets straight
down, I don't even bother with the plastic cup on the back and just pull
the rivet and then let the stem fall back out the front.
As far as the problem below regarding the gap, how big is that gap?
Also, you say that you are using the Zenith regulator, which really
isn't a regulator at all. You need to use an inline guage right at the
gun to see what you are pulling at and read it when you pull the
trigger. It sounds like you aren't getting much psi at the gun.
Rgds,
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
VideoFlyer@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet questions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
In a message dated 11/13/2004 keithnorton@mac.com writes:
<<<when I pull the Avex rivets with either a hand tool or the Zenith
supplied
gun, they always leave a small gap between the outer edge of the rivet
and
the skin.>>>
<<<I've taken the pressure on the gun all the way to 90psi and it seems
to me
that it pulls very weakly. >>>>
Something ain't right!!!!
<<<<The stem doesn't come out of the back of the gun but rather stays in
the
nose. That doesn't seem right.>>>>
Gravity will pull the stem out the back...or out the front....depending
on
which way the gun is pointed after you release the trigger.
I have had some "purists" in my shop who turn up their noses at the Avex
rivets. One even said that I would have a "much better plane" if I
would swicth
to solid rivets. To each his own, I guess.
But it's fun to watch their reaction when I "pull" a line of 30 rivets
in 60
seconds!
Dave
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet questions |
Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 22:38:06 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
Gary, Avex rivets are a way of life as I see it. I was once and still am
hung up on the RV-9, I even had the audacity to as a sales Rep at the
Company why I should not use Avex rivets throughout the kit, Geez Louise you
might of thought that I was asking to reinvent the wheel. I think you could
build one of those aircraft in 2 to 3 hindered hours. After building three
aircraft I think that makes you an authority on this subject. Thanks for the
input, Cheers
RJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivet questions
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
>
>
> This will be the third plane I've done using Avex blind rivets, and I
> know of at least four others. All are in perfect shape, have hundreds
> of hours on them and have never had any type of structural or skin
> failure.
>
> No disrespect to the RV guys, but...those "purists" who don't expand
> their knowledge or building horizons are left to only one type of
> building medium that hasn't changed much in over 50 years.
>
> I will say that the gun from Zenith seems to pull softer than the $50
> unit I bought from Harbor Freight several years ago. But I'm pulling
> the A4 rivets at 40psi and the A5 rivets at 50psi and the stems are
> popping fine with the Zenith gun.
>
> Also, like below, unless I'm pulling horizontally or upside down, the
> stems will fall back out the front. If I'm pulling rivets straight
> down, I don't even bother with the plastic cup on the back and just pull
> the rivet and then let the stem fall back out the front.
>
> As far as the problem below regarding the gap, how big is that gap?
> Also, you say that you are using the Zenith regulator, which really
> isn't a regulator at all. You need to use an inline guage right at the
> gun to see what you are pulling at and read it when you pull the
> trigger. It sounds like you aren't getting much psi at the gun.
>
> Rgds,
> Gary
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> VideoFlyer@aol.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet questions
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 11/13/2004 keithnorton@mac.com writes:
>
> <<<when I pull the Avex rivets with either a hand tool or the Zenith
> supplied
> gun, they always leave a small gap between the outer edge of the rivet
> and
> the skin.>>>
>
> <<<I've taken the pressure on the gun all the way to 90psi and it seems
> to me
> that it pulls very weakly. >>>>
>
> Something ain't right!!!!
>
>
> <<<<The stem doesn't come out of the back of the gun but rather stays in
> the
> nose. That doesn't seem right.>>>>
>
> Gravity will pull the stem out the back...or out the front....depending
> on
> which way the gun is pointed after you release the trigger.
>
> I have had some "purists" in my shop who turn up their noses at the Avex
>
> rivets. One even said that I would have a "much better plane" if I
> would swicth
> to solid rivets. To each his own, I guess.
>
> But it's fun to watch their reaction when I "pull" a line of 30 rivets
> in 60
> seconds!
>
> Dave
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
I have 2 of the Zenith Wheel Fairings that I would like to sell. I have decided
not to use them. Zenith sells them for $99 each; I'll sell both for $125 +shipping.
Please contact me off-list if you are interested. Thanks
Greg
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