Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:04 AM - Re: 801 Stabilizer (Benford2@aol.com)
2. 05:59 AM - Re: Re: CH701 Question (Phil Raker)
3. 06:19 AM - Re: 801 Stabilizer (Rmtnview@aol.com)
4. 07:15 AM - Re: Re: CH701 Question (Larry Martin)
5. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: CH701 Question (Ihab Awad)
6. 07:52 AM - Re: 801 Stabilizer (Tom Faulkner)
7. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: CH701 Question (Larry Martin)
8. 08:28 AM - Re: Re: CH701 Question (Larry Martin)
9. 08:29 AM - Re: Vapor lock (Jeff Small)
10. 09:01 AM - Re: Tinting canopy? (Jeff Small)
11. 09:10 AM - Re: Pegastol wing for Zenith CH701 (Dirk Slabbert)
12. 09:13 AM - Ram Performance address (Brett Hanley)
13. 09:50 AM - Re: Ram Performance address (Ramperf@aol.com)
14. 11:11 AM - Re: Ram Performance address (Larry McFarland)
15. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: CH701 Question (Robert Schoenberger)
16. 11:27 AM - Re: Ram Performance address (gary)
17. 11:34 AM - [ Larry Martin ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
18. 12:12 PM - [PLEASE READ] More What Listers Are Saying... (Matt Dralle)
19. 12:43 PM - Re: Vapor lock (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
20. 12:49 PM - Re: Vapor lock (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
21. 04:11 PM - 701 in Central Florida (Gordon Arbeitman)
22. 04:12 PM - Moving slats - Was Re: CH701 Question (ray.stlaurent@vsea.com)
23. 04:37 PM - Re: Was 701 Question - G-loading.. (ray.stlaurent@vsea.com)
24. 05:10 PM - Re: Steering rod boots (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
25. 05:59 PM - Re: 701 in Central Florida (Rick)
26. 06:19 PM - Re: Re: 801 Stabilizer (Jim Frisby)
27. 06:52 PM - Re: Re: Was 701 Question - G-loading.. (Larry Martin)
28. 07:32 PM - Re: Re: Re: 801 Stabilizer (Rich)
29. 08:08 PM - Re: Steering rod boots (Mike Sinclair)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 801 Stabilizer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 11/19/2004 9:08:42 PM Mountain Standard Time,
rbauer@intergate.com writes:
>
> Is there anything wrong with extending the original stabilizer to the length
> of the new one? All that would need to be ordered are a few extra ribs, the
> spar (which would be cut for two proper lengths, one on each end), & some
> extra skinning aluminum.
>
> Rich
> 801
>
A properly designed one would probably work ok. I am pretty sure the one on
the Califonia crash broke apart and sent the two guys to their grave. Of course
if they were not under the influence of drugs they might have had a better
outcome. It has been a awhile since I built my tail section but if I remember
correctly it has a one piece spar, not two spliced on the middle.
Ben Haas N801BH do not archive
Message 2
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;
| Subject: | Re: CH701 Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
Hey, Guys,
Forget about jammimg of the mechanism. That probably isn't the real
issue. The real issue is aerodynamic pressure. The Messerschmitt BF 109 of
WW-II fame had a similar leading edge slat mechanism operated by aerodynamic
pressure. I certain flight situations, particularly turning real hard, the
angle of attack would be sufficiently different between the two wings, so that
one slat would extend while the other remained stowed. That did give rise to a
very high (and uncontrollable) roll rate. There were a lot of 109 pilots who
died because they were shot down before they could regain control of the plane.
When it occurred at low altitude, a lot of them hit the ground. I, for one,
would prefer a system that was manusl & mechanical or has an interconnect
between the two wings so they can't extend asymmetrically.
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
From what I see in building them, I believe that would be next to
impossible. They are really very simple, lot of clearance in the slide.
There is nothing to jam unless you get dirt dobbers in them, but that is
what pre-flights are for. And, I did ask that question of Gillis of
Dedaluis. He said they have never had that problem, none of the builders I
talked to mentioned it either.
Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ihab Awad" <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ray.stlaurent@vsea.com
> > I too am happily building a Pegastol wing. I put on my mechanical
> > engineers hard hat before looking at the stress analysis calculations
...
>
> Ok, how about putting the hat back on....
>
> Chris Heintz, in one of the writeups on the ZAC website, talks about
> the risk if one side of the extension mechanism is jammed and the
> other side isn't, which would (I presume) create a very sudden and
> large rolling moment when one side extends.
>
> I suppose the response of a properly trained pilot would be to add
> power immediately and repeat the landing attempt below slat extension
> AOA.
>
> Have the Daedalus people thought of this? Do they have a
> recommendation? Or is the mechamnism set up so that this is a highly
> unlikely scenario?
>
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 801 Stabilizer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com
Who was it that put vortex generators on the bottom of the stabilizer? Could
this be an answer for us "short tail" guys to get the low speed
responsiveness without the increased drag or increased sensitivity that was reported
by
Roger at ZAC?
rog
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
Maybe so, I guess you can find exceptions to anything, but I don't expect to
ever be in a high speed hard turn. That would be an extremely rare
occurrence. The bottom line is that the retractable slats are safe.
Automatic retractable slats are nothing new. The Helio Courrier STOL had
them in 1946. I didn't know about the 109, I'll check it out. Everything
is a copy of sorts. The 701 isn't a new design, it's a downsized version
of a German STOL plane, I wish I could remember the name. May someone can
help me. The 701 may be refined, but certainly not an original. The
PegaStol wings are an improvement to the 701, it's all about improving and
advancing or we would all be flying Wright Flyers.
Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Raker" <phadr1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
>
> Hey, Guys,
> Forget about jammimg of the mechanism. That probably isn't the real
> issue. The real issue is aerodynamic pressure. The Messerschmitt BF 109
of
> WW-II fame had a similar leading edge slat mechanism operated by
aerodynamic
> pressure. I certain flight situations, particularly turning real hard,
the
> angle of attack would be sufficiently different between the two wings, so
that
> one slat would extend while the other remained stowed. That did give rise
to a
> very high (and uncontrollable) roll rate. There were a lot of 109 pilots
who
> died because they were shot down before they could regain control of the
plane.
> When it occurred at low altitude, a lot of them hit the ground. I, for
one,
> would prefer a system that was manusl & mechanical or has an interconnect
> between the two wings so they can't extend asymmetrically.
>
> Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
>
> From what I see in building them, I believe that would be next to
> impossible. They are really very simple, lot of clearance in the slide.
> There is nothing to jam unless you get dirt dobbers in them, but that is
> what pre-flights are for. And, I did ask that question of Gillis of
> Dedaluis. He said they have never had that problem, none of the builders
I
> talked to mentioned it either.
>
> Larry N1345L
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ihab Awad" <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Question
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
> >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ray.stlaurent@vsea.com
> > > I too am happily building a Pegastol wing. I put on my mechanical
> > > engineers hard hat before looking at the stress analysis calculations
> ...
> >
> > Ok, how about putting the hat back on....
> >
> > Chris Heintz, in one of the writeups on the ZAC website, talks about
> > the risk if one side of the extension mechanism is jammed and the
> > other side isn't, which would (I presume) create a very sudden and
> > large rolling moment when one side extends.
> >
> > I suppose the response of a properly trained pilot would be to add
> > power immediately and repeat the landing attempt below slat extension
> > AOA.
> >
> > Have the Daedalus people thought of this? Do they have a
> > recommendation? Or is the mechamnism set up so that this is a highly
> > unlikely scenario?
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
Message 5
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Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:41:39 -0800 (PST)
| Subject: | Re: CH701 Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:13:52 -0600, Larry Martin <lrm@isp.com> wrote:
> The 701 isn't a new design, it's a downsized version
> of a German STOL plane, I wish I could remember the name.
Do you mean the Fiesler Storch, perhaps?
http://www.sweptwings.co.uk/storch_gallery.htm
http://www.avrosys.nu/aircraft/Spaning/210S14.htm
The 701/801 copies the fixed LE slats and full-span flaperons, but the
Storch does not have the "Junkers" flaps. Afaik, the definitive
replica is --
http://www.pazmany.com/stork/stork.html
Peace,
Ihab [ a big fan of CH701/801 designs ]
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom Faulkner" <tomtafcor@triton.net>
You really need to talk to Nick or Roger about why, but they say no. I
found in building the new stabilizer that it was beefed up from the old one.
A5 rivets instead of A4's,and a little thicker skin in places. I liked it a
lot better than the old one, which seemed a little flimsy to me.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
I did a quick search of Messerschmitt BF 109s and they indeed had automatic
retractable slats, but nothing about causing crashes. It might be out
there, I just couldn't find it. I think there probably more to it than we
know, like a pin left out or bullets, maybe. I only found praise about how
they allowed the 109 to make controlled high speed turns but still couldn't
out turn the Spitfire. Then I searched for "automatic leading edge slats"
and was amazed as to how many planes had them including the F186 Saber. I
found nothing negative except a statement from Chris H. about problems in
gusty winds. And there are still about 250 Couriers still flying.
My opinion has only been re-enforced. Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Raker" <phadr1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
>
> Hey, Guys,
> Forget about jammimg of the mechanism. That probably isn't the real
> issue. The real issue is aerodynamic pressure. The Messerschmitt BF 109
of
> WW-II fame had a similar leading edge slat mechanism operated by
aerodynamic
> pressure. I certain flight situations, particularly turning real hard,
the
> angle of attack would be sufficiently different between the two wings, so
that
> one slat would extend while the other remained stowed. That did give rise
to a
> very high (and uncontrollable) roll rate. There were a lot of 109 pilots
who
> died because they were shot down before they could regain control of the
plane.
> When it occurred at low altitude, a lot of them hit the ground. I, for
one,
> would prefer a system that was manusl & mechanical or has an interconnect
> between the two wings so they can't extend asymmetrically.
>
> Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
>
> From what I see in building them, I believe that would be next to
> impossible. They are really very simple, lot of clearance in the slide.
> There is nothing to jam unless you get dirt dobbers in them, but that is
> what pre-flights are for. And, I did ask that question of Gillis of
> Dedaluis. He said they have never had that problem, none of the builders
I
> talked to mentioned it either.
>
> Larry N1345L
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ihab Awad" <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Question
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
> >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ray.stlaurent@vsea.com
> > > I too am happily building a Pegastol wing. I put on my mechanical
> > > engineers hard hat before looking at the stress analysis calculations
> ...
> >
> > Ok, how about putting the hat back on....
> >
> > Chris Heintz, in one of the writeups on the ZAC website, talks about
> > the risk if one side of the extension mechanism is jammed and the
> > other side isn't, which would (I presume) create a very sudden and
> > large rolling moment when one side extends.
> >
> > I suppose the response of a properly trained pilot would be to add
> > power immediately and repeat the landing attempt below slat extension
> > AOA.
> >
> > Have the Daedalus people thought of this? Do they have a
> > recommendation? Or is the mechamnism set up so that this is a highly
> > unlikely scenario?
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
Yep, except for the horizontal, it's pretty much the same. Thank you, Larry
N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ihab Awad" <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
>
> On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:13:52 -0600, Larry Martin <lrm@isp.com> wrote:
> > The 701 isn't a new design, it's a downsized version
> > of a German STOL plane, I wish I could remember the name.
>
> Do you mean the Fiesler Storch, perhaps?
>
> http://www.sweptwings.co.uk/storch_gallery.htm
> http://www.avrosys.nu/aircraft/Spaning/210S14.htm
>
> The 701/801 copies the fixed LE slats and full-span flaperons, but the
> Storch does not have the "Junkers" flaps. Afaik, the definitive
> replica is --
>
> http://www.pazmany.com/stork/stork.html
>
> Peace,
>
> Ihab [ a big fan of CH701/801 designs ]
>
>
Message 9
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Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:26:16 -0600
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
The fuel boost pump should have been mounted inside the cabin area so
as to keep it away from heat. The fuel was being heated and then turning to
vapor which in turn caused the engine to sputter. So, plan ahead and make
room for your fuel boost pump under the seat area or some other place inside
the cabin area.
+++ Or you could just look at the firewall of almost any Piper low-wing and copy
that. It's a box/surround made of aluminum that blocks direct heat from other
engine major thermal producers.
Tony Bingelis' books on engines go into detail on just such heat blockers.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Tinting canopy? |
Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:59:59 -0600
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>Instead of a tint film, it's a piece of sticky-back material
>with thousands of tiny holes in it. You can still see through it because of
>the holes, but it blocks the sun. More importantly, it will adhere to the
>inside of the bubble and still look nice from the outside.
+++ For the hirsutely challenged...
Try your local vinyl graphics sign maker and see what line he carries.
Avery Graphics www.signage.averygraphics.com<http://www.signage.averygraphics.com/> makes a Perforated Window Film A1835-S.
3M Scotchlite Series 1170 carries a Transparent Film in yellow, red, orange, blue,
green, opaque black, brown.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Pegastol wing for Zenith CH701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert@telkomsa.net>
Would be nice to hear from someone who is flying these wings?
The way I figure it's ok in colder air, but hot and thermic?! will keep you very
busy.
I for one dont want any unpredictables close to ground, this is where these things
come in to play?
The devil waits his chances, be sure.
Dirk
701 Kit (5228)
----- Original Message -----
From: Howard Carter
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 12:10 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Pegastol wing for Zenith CH701
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Howard Carter <howado@cwia.com>
Regarding asymmetric slat extension, the slats extend at 30 mph. I spoke
to Gilles Boulanger about this issue, and he said that during slow speed
maneuvering the slats WILL extend with asymmetry, but the flaperon has
full control authority and it is not a problem to control. The slat
mechanism is built with a jig (supplied with the kit) so it is
accurate. The slats are made to extend easily and at time unequally.
Howard Carter
Message 12
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DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
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;
| Subject: | Ram Performance address |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
Does anyone have the address for Ram Performance?
Brett
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Ram Performance address |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ramperf@aol.com
www.ramengines.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Ram Performance address |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
RAM Performance- The High Performance Subaru Experts
2929 Clinton Rd.
Clinton, Ohio 44216
330-882-6255
Hours Monday-Friday 8am-5pm est.
Saturday till 12:00
Now accepts all major credit cards!
engineinfo@aol.com
Larry McFarland
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Hanley" <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Ram Performance address
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
>
> Does anyone have the address for Ram Performance?
>
> Brett
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
German Storch??? Do not archive Robert Schoenberger 701 45%
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
>
> Maybe so, I guess you can find exceptions to anything, but I don't expect
> to
> ever be in a high speed hard turn. That would be an extremely rare
> occurrence. The bottom line is that the retractable slats are safe.
> Automatic retractable slats are nothing new. The Helio Courrier STOL had
> them in 1946. I didn't know about the 109, I'll check it out. Everything
> is a copy of sorts. The 701 isn't a new design, it's a downsized version
> of a German STOL plane, I wish I could remember the name. May someone can
> help me. The 701 may be refined, but certainly not an original. The
> PegaStol wings are an improvement to the 701, it's all about improving and
> advancing or we would all be flying Wright Flyers.
>
> Larry N1345L
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Raker" <phadr1@yahoo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Question
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Hey, Guys,
>> Forget about jammimg of the mechanism. That probably isn't the real
>> issue. The real issue is aerodynamic pressure. The Messerschmitt BF 109
> of
>> WW-II fame had a similar leading edge slat mechanism operated by
> aerodynamic
>> pressure. I certain flight situations, particularly turning real hard,
> the
>> angle of attack would be sufficiently different between the two wings, so
> that
>> one slat would extend while the other remained stowed. That did give
>> rise
> to a
>> very high (and uncontrollable) roll rate. There were a lot of 109 pilots
> who
>> died because they were shot down before they could regain control of the
> plane.
>> When it occurred at low altitude, a lot of them hit the ground. I, for
> one,
>> would prefer a system that was manusl & mechanical or has an interconnect
>> between the two wings so they can't extend asymmetrically.
>>
>> Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
>>
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
>>
>> From what I see in building them, I believe that would be next to
>> impossible. They are really very simple, lot of clearance in the slide.
>> There is nothing to jam unless you get dirt dobbers in them, but that is
>> what pre-flights are for. And, I did ask that question of Gillis of
>> Dedaluis. He said they have never had that problem, none of the builders
> I
>> talked to mentioned it either.
>>
>> Larry N1345L
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ihab Awad" <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Question
>>
>>
>> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ray.stlaurent@vsea.com
>> > > I too am happily building a Pegastol wing. I put on my mechanical
>> > > engineers hard hat before looking at the stress analysis calculations
>> ...
>> >
>> > Ok, how about putting the hat back on....
>> >
>> > Chris Heintz, in one of the writeups on the ZAC website, talks about
>> > the risk if one side of the extension mechanism is jammed and the
>> > other side isn't, which would (I presume) create a very sudden and
>> > large rolling moment when one side extends.
>> >
>> > I suppose the response of a properly trained pilot would be to add
>> > power immediately and repeat the landing attempt below slat extension
>> > AOA.
>> >
>> > Have the Daedalus people thought of this? Do they have a
>> > recommendation? Or is the mechamnism set up so that this is a highly
>> > unlikely scenario?
>> >
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> http://my.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Ram Performance address |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary" <FlyinK@Efortress.com>
> Does anyone have the address for Ram Performance?
>
http://www.ramengines.com/
Message 17
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| Subject: | [ Larry Martin ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Larry Martin <lrm@isp.com>
Subject: Interior/LM-701
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/lrm@isp.com.11.20.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] More What Listers Are Saying... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
We are nearing the end of this year's List Fund Raiser and I wanted to
share a few more of the really nice things members have been saying about
what the Lists mean to them. Please take a minute to read over a few of
the wonderful comments below and feel free to make a Contribution to
support your lists as well. There are some nifty gifts to be had this year
too, so hurry and sign up for your's today!! The List Contribution Web
Site can be found at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution already
this year! It is your generosity that keeps these Lists up and running.
THANK YOU!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
----------- Lot's More of "What Listers Are Saying" ------------
Flexible, easy to use, fast, technically superior, and absolutely
SPAM-free. Incredible!
-Terry W.
This list has saved me many days/months of searching
and learning for the best for my home building experience.
-John F.
...the information available on the lists are a real help to me.
-Roger O.
Just finished flying off my 40-hours on the Zenith 601HDS
with Stratus engine. Couldn't have done it without your
site and the help of the guys on the List.
-Larry M.
It is a great service.
-Robert K.
[The] List is a great asset to me...
-David M.
The YAK list has been a great resource to me.
-Walt Murphy
An ongoing valuable resource, as usual.
-Dennis N.
Your's is a great service!
-John J.
The List was the most useful help building.
-Lothar K.
Excellent source of information.
-Tony C.
...it's a great forum.
-Lar
...tremendous resource.
-Robert S.
...great service.
-Johann J.
In addition to being a valuable technical resource, the List
is doubly worthwhile for the support and encouragement from
other builders.
-Al H.
...great tool.
-Mark S.
...great service.
-Peter T.
...couldn't have even contemplated doing this without the help of the List.
-John L.
I find a lot of useful info on the List...
-Frank C.
Many thanks for providing this commercial free service.
-Fred K.
...excellent web site.
-Ross H.
Your list represents a daily activity for me, and I would
miss it, if it were not available, just as you have
presented it.
-George R.
The information that I have gleaned from the lists has saved me
many hours of head scratching, and many thousands of dollars.
-Kevin H.
...really like your site especially the archives.
-Don W.
You could say the List "changed my life," since that's what
caused Monument Valley to happen and that certainly is a high point.
-Dave P.
...awesome service!
-Grant K.
Your labor is 1st Class!!!
-William C.
...great resource!
-Sam B.
This is a truly amazing list service.
-Terry W.
Another year of great service from the list.
-Pat H.
It's really a big help.
-Clay K.
[The] lists [are] very helpful.
-Richard C.
Great service, great work.
-Dwight F.
The List is fun and informative...
-Jack H.
...great list.
-Dennis E.
I have learned a lot from [the List].
-Joel G.
I especially appreciate keeping unwanted advertisers out!!!!
-Lothar K.
Invaluable!
-Larry M.
Great list.
-Lothar K.
...I have made many good friends along the way.
-Kevin H.
...you have provided a good service for those who wish to help others.
-Jack H.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 19
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
That will help, but even better (especially on a low wing plane) to put
it right at the outlet of each fuel tank....The less length of line you
have to suck through the less likleyhood of VL...
On my new IO360 Motor I am plannig to ditch the mechanical fuel pump and
put electric pumps like I described above. No reason not to do this on
any other motor, except you junk the mechanical fuel pump...Not an issue
with a soob because there isn't one...
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Small
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vapor lock
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
The fuel boost pump should have been mounted inside the cabin area so as
to keep it away from heat. The fuel was being heated and then turning
to vapor which in turn caused the engine to sputter. So, plan ahead and
make room for your fuel boost pump under the seat area or some other
place inside the cabin area.
+++ Or you could just look at the firewall of almost any Piper low-wing
+++ and copy that. It's a box/surround made of aluminum that blocks
+++ direct heat from other engine major thermal producers.
Tony Bingelis' books on engines go into detail on just such heat
blockers.
Message 20
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Jeff,
If you look through the archives will will note that I have been banging
on about this subject for some years now. It's a deadly issue and I'm
thankful your engine did not quit on take off!
Please folks don't simply write this off as a ho-hum mistake. You might
pay for the mistake with your life!
Auto fuel is also much more prone to VL but with the pumps in the right
place its just fine.
If you don't understand the physics of VL search the archives.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Paden
Subject: Zenith-List: Vapor lock
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
I hope this message might help others to avoid the mistake I made. You
may remember that I posted a question about my engine sputtering. Well,
I found the problem and it was so simple that I can't believe that I did
not think of it sooner. I had mounted the fuel boost pump on the
firewall. THIS IS A BAD THING TO DO! The fuel boost pump should have
been mounted inside the cabin area so as to keep it away from heat. The
fuel was being heated and then turning to vapor which in turn caused the
engine to sputter. So, plan ahead and make room for your fuel boost
pump under the seat area or some other place inside the cabin area.
Jeff Paden
CH-604 Flying once again!
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | 701 in Central Florida |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gordon Arbeitman <gordona23@earthlink.net>
Hi;
I've been lurking for a while, thinking about building a 701 (possibly
with a Jabiru 2200). I've never flown one and was wondering if anyone on
the list has a nice 701 within flying distance of Daytona Beach. Lunch and
gas are on me, of course. I've got a Grumman Tiger so you don't have to be
REAL close to Daytona.
Thanks.
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Moving slats - Was Re: CH701 Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ray.stlaurent@vsea.com
I believe the F86 Sabre jet fighter also had automatic slats.
BTW, the Pegastol manufacturer sells a DVD showing their prototypes taking
off, landing and flying in various configurations. I found it very
helpful. There are shots from inside and outside the aircraft. I looked at
the video closely when the slats opened in flight as taken from a handheld
camera in the cockpit. There was no evidence of a sudden jarring in any
axis.
For anyone considering the wing, I recommend getting the DVD. It has some
good examples of calm take offs and landings and slow flying showing the
elevator control available. It does show complete take offs from a dead
stop and landings to a stop with no wheel braking.
But this discussion of one side suddenly popping open in abrupt maneuvers
is something I had not really thought about. When the time comes, I will
add to the flight-testing a series of sharp turning maneuvers just to know
what to expect. Wouldnt want any surprises while being jostled in rough
air on landing.
-- Ray
___________________________________
Subject: Re: Re: CH701 Question
From: Robert Schoenberger (hrs1@frontiernet.net)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger"
<hrs1@frontiernet.net>
German Storch??? Do not archive Robert Schoenberger 701 45%
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
Subject: Re: Re: CH701 Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
>
> Maybe so, I guess you can find exceptions to anything, but I don't
expect
> to
> ever be in a high speed hard turn. That would be an extremely rare
> occurrence. The bottom line is that the retractable slats are safe.
> Automatic retractable slats are nothing new. The Helio Courrier STOL
had
> them in 1946. I didn't know about the 109, I'll check it out.
Everything
> is a copy of sorts. The 701 isn't a new design, it's a downsized
version
> of a German STOL plane, I wish I could remember the name. May someone
can
> help me. The 701 may be refined, but certainly not an original. The
> PegaStol wings are an improvement to the 701, it's all about improving
and
> advancing or we would all be flying Wright Flyers.
>
> Larry N1345L
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Raker" <phadr1@yahoo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: CH701 Question
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Hey, Guys,
>> Forget about jammimg of the mechanism. That probably isn't the
real
>> issue. The real issue is aerodynamic pressure. The Messerschmitt BF
109
> of
>> WW-II fame had a similar leading edge slat mechanism operated by
> aerodynamic
>> pressure. I certain flight situations, particularly turning real hard,
> the
>> angle of attack would be sufficiently different between the two wings,
so
> that
>> one slat would extend while the other remained stowed. That did give
>> rise
> to a
>> very high (and uncontrollable) roll rate. There were a lot of 109
pilots
> who
>> died because they were shot down before they could regain control of
the
> plane.
>> When it occurred at low altitude, a lot of them hit the ground. I,
for
> one,
>> would prefer a system that was manusl & mechanical or has an
interconnect
>> between the two wings so they can't extend asymmetrically.
>>
>> Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
>>
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
>>
>> From what I see in building them, I believe that would be next to
>> impossible. They are really very simple, lot of clearance in the
slide.
>> There is nothing to jam unless you get dirt dobbers in them, but that
is
>> what pre-flights are for. And, I did ask that question of Gillis of
>> Dedaluis. He said they have never had that problem, none of the
builders
> I
>> talked to mentioned it either.
>>
>> Larry N1345L
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ihab Awad" <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Re: CH701 Question
>>
>>
>> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ray.stlaurent@vsea.com
>> > > I too am happily building a Pegastol wing. I put on my mechanical
>> > > engineers hard hat before looking at the stress analysis
calculations
>> ...
>> >
>> > Ok, how about putting the hat back on....
>> >
>> > Chris Heintz, in one of the writeups on the ZAC website, talks about
>> > the risk if one side of the extension mechanism is jammed and the
>> > other side isn't, which would (I presume) create a very sudden and
>> > large rolling moment when one side extends.
>> >
>> > I suppose the response of a properly trained pilot would be to add
>> > power immediately and repeat the landing attempt below slat extension
>> > AOA.
>> >
>> > Have the Daedalus people thought of this? Do they have a
>> > recommendation? Or is the mechamnism set up so that this is a highly
>> > unlikely scenario?
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | RE: Was 701 Question - G-loading.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ray.stlaurent@vsea.com
The stress analysis for the Pegastol wing is at www.dedaliusaviation.com.
They used 6G design and 9G ultimate.
I did find some minor irregularities with their calculations which I
discussed in an earlier message. At that time I still had a question to
the manufacturer regarding the type of stainless steel rivets they used.
That has been clarified so I have wittingly (instead of unwittingly)
returned to happily building my wing.
-- Ray
________________________
Subject: Re: RE: Was 701 Question - G-loading...
From: Larry Martin (lrm@isp.com)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
I like that "Pegacopy", the only thing copied is the bolts bolting it up,
everything else is different and in my opinion, better. Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Was 701 Question - G-loading...
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
>
>
> Be careful with the assumption that if the manufacturer claims -6g's,
> then the ultimate is -9g's.
>
> It is usually the opposite in the kit plane world.
>
> The 701 (and maybe the Pegacopy) is rated at 6g's ultimate (that's 4g's
> design).
>
> What is the difference between ultimate and design?? - a safety factor
> of 1.5.
>
> At 6g's, the 701 is "designed" (emphasis on the quote marks) to fail,
> but don't go past 4g's for your own safety.
>
>
> Why did kit planes start to give their speed in mph instead of knots?
> To make them sound faster.
>
>
> Martin
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Steering rod boots |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 11/3/2004 9:56:53 AM Central Standard Time, sonar1@cox.net
writes:
Planning on using the electricians firestop caulk for the rest of the
firewall.
Fred Sanford
Fred
What is the PN or brand of the firestop caulk please?
Jerry
Message 25
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|
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=pCdgrT9LXCQEiQ6HDi6j18tpSWE/qurDCo7ElfCz5+qj1b/50XPU9u2FWimSN5MDCGSV0po6n1ty0FM+bsHmVBQBrSw8DaBfSkaHbH4Yoe/t6CdVOuYYz4g+5QkjZRatsV2HORJrOpKI8sjeJl0IDngxi/SR4KIlyDwXrlF3/3o=
;
| Subject: | Re: 701 in Central Florida |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick <n701rr@yahoo.com>
Gordon,
Hop on the Zenith web site and search "Builders on the Web" for Florida. There
are some completed and flying.
Tail winds.
Gordon Arbeitman <gordona23@earthlink.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gordon Arbeitman
Hi;
I've been lurking for a while, thinking about building a 701 (possibly
with a Jabiru 2200). I've never flown one and was wondering if anyone on
the list has a nice 701 within flying distance of Daytona Beach. Lunch and
gas are on me, of course. I've got a Grumman Tiger so you don't have to be
REAL close to Daytona.
Thanks.
Rick
Orlando, FL
http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html
---------------------------------
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: 801 Stabilizer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <n801za@hotmail.com>
Rich,
It's thought that the Sacramento 801 wreck may have been related to an
"extended" horizontal tail. I remember hearing that Chris recommended
against extending the 801's tail.
Jim Frisby
N801ZA
Time: 08:07:58 PM PST US From: "Rich" <rbauer@intergate.com> Subject: Re:
801 Stabilizer
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rich" <rbauer@intergate.com>
Is there anything wrong with extending the original stabilizer to the
length
of the new one? All that would need to be ordered are a few extra
ribs, the
spar (which would be cut for two proper lengths, one on each end), &
some
extra skinning aluminum.
Rich
801
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Faulkner" <tomtafcor@triton.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 801 Stabilizer
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Was 701 Question - G-loading.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
PegaStol uses 13/64" aircraft stainless steel rivets to attach their rear
root bracket to the spar. I thought I remembered that Zenith used the
regular A5 aluminum rivets to attached the rear fuselage bracket to the
fuselage, so I checked just in case I screwed up and used the wrong rivets,
nope that's what they recommended. I guess that's ok, they got a lot of
them up there flying around. I may put some SS rivets in anyway. Ray, what
do you think? Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: <ray.stlaurent@vsea.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Was 701 Question - G-loading..
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ray.stlaurent@vsea.com
>
> The stress analysis for the Pegastol wing is at www.dedaliusaviation.com.
> They used 6G design and 9G ultimate.
>
> I did find some minor irregularities with their calculations which I
> discussed in an earlier message. At that time I still had a question to
> the manufacturer regarding the type of stainless steel rivets they used.
> That has been clarified so I have wittingly (instead of unwittingly)
> returned to happily building my wing.
>
> -- Ray
> ________________________
> Subject: Re: RE: Was 701 Question - G-loading...
> From: Larry Martin (lrm@isp.com)
> Date: Fri Nov 19 - 6:56 PM
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
>
> I like that "Pegacopy", the only thing copied is the bolts bolting it up,
> everything else is different and in my opinion, better. Larry N1345L
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Was 701 Question - G-loading...
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
> >
> >
> > Be careful with the assumption that if the manufacturer claims -6g's,
> > then the ultimate is -9g's.
> >
> > It is usually the opposite in the kit plane world.
> >
> > The 701 (and maybe the Pegacopy) is rated at 6g's ultimate (that's 4g's
> > design).
> >
> > What is the difference between ultimate and design?? - a safety factor
> > of 1.5.
> >
> > At 6g's, the 701 is "designed" (emphasis on the quote marks) to fail,
> > but don't go past 4g's for your own safety.
> >
> >
> > Why did kit planes start to give their speed in mph instead of knots?
> > To make them sound faster.
> >
> >
> > Martin
> >
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: 801 Stabilizer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rich" <rbauer@intergate.com>
You're right. I went back & read it again. Looks like I need to dip into the
wallet again for the whole kit & kaboodle. darn
Rich
801
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Frisby" <n801za@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Re: 801 Stabilizer
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <n801za@hotmail.com>
>
> Rich,
> It's thought that the Sacramento 801 wreck may have been related to an
> "extended" horizontal tail. I remember hearing that Chris recommended
> against extending the 801's tail.
> Jim Frisby
> N801ZA
>
> Time: 08:07:58 PM PST US From: "Rich" <rbauer@intergate.com> Subject:
Re:
> 801 Stabilizer
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rich" <rbauer@intergate.com>
>
> Is there anything wrong with extending the original stabilizer to
the
> length
> of the new one? All that would need to be ordered are a few extra
> ribs, the
> spar (which would be cut for two proper lengths, one on each end), &
> some
> extra skinning aluminum.
>
> Rich
> 801
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Faulkner" <tomtafcor@triton.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: 801 Stabilizer
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Steering rod boots |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
For what it's worth, my tech counselor recommended the high temp red RTV
silicone, so thats what I used to seal my firewall. Easy to apply.
JERICKSON03E@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 11/3/2004 9:56:53 AM Central Standard Time, sonar1@cox.net
> writes:
>
> Planning on using the electricians firestop caulk for the rest of the
> firewall.
>
> Fred Sanford
> Fred
> What is the PN or brand of the firestop caulk please?
> Jerry
>
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