Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:46 AM - RVs vs 601s (Dr. Perry Morrison)
2. 03:42 AM - Re: Suburu cooling (Michel Therrien)
3. 06:21 AM - Corvair discussion (dickrourke)
4. 06:23 AM - Re: Stratus E-81/modified heads (Jim and Lucy)
5. 06:32 AM - Re: Suburu cooling (Larry McFarland)
6. 06:49 AM - Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV (Jake Reyna)
7. 06:53 AM - Re: Stratus E-81/modified heads (Weston, Jim)
8. 07:03 AM - Re: Suburu cooling (Larry Martin)
9. 07:15 AM - Re: Suburu cooling (Weston, Jim)
10. 07:16 AM - Wanted CH701 Kit (Robert C. Owens)
11. 07:41 AM - Re: Stratus E-81/modified heads (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
12. 07:46 AM - Subject: Zenith-List, Subaru Head Torquing (Phil Raker)
13. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
14. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV (Jeff Small)
15. 09:20 AM - Re: Stratus E-81/modified heads (Charles Heathco)
16. 09:35 AM - Re: Stratus E-81/modified heads (Charles Heathco)
17. 09:38 AM - Re: Subject: Zenith-List, Subaru Head Torquing (Charles Heathco)
18. 09:43 AM - Re: Stratus E-81/modified heads (Charles Heathco)
19. 09:51 AM - Re: Corvair discussion (Ron Butterfield)
20. 10:41 AM - Re: Corvair discussion (nhulin)
21. 10:44 AM - Re: Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
22. 11:02 AM - Re: Suburu cooling (Larry McFarland)
23. 12:51 PM - Re: Suburu cooling (Weston, Jim)
24. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV (Charles Heathco)
25. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: Corvair discussion (John Fulp)
26. 06:29 PM - Re: Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV (jnbolding1)
27. 07:05 PM - Small Access Port (Larry McFarland)
28. 07:35 PM - Re: Corvair discussion (nhulin)
29. 07:35 PM - Re: Suburu cooling (The Meiste's)
Message 1
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DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=h9p57+/weFVbEpOCaKf+5z35sjRPXFGeaDVVkfgy1tquoIMk54uYOAHXSiX/ZhYa9S8Cf7CeqKf00UEA+sYeXNb6/nFu27gd2+8g4PxQ0TOiRvrFTbqltbKNRPVT9FqwUcjyAUMUgS+9kxS31P19+dopQ96T1ZMNiG51rRjfJdM=
;
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison" <perrymorrison@yahoo.com>
Classic debate. As always, be clear on what kind of flying you will be doing. If
you do LOTS of X country with time pressure, RVs are the way to go. If you chortle
around short-medium distances, happy to fly most weekends and not worry
about the fuel bill, land most places you want and have plenty of storage space
and cabin comfort, zodiacs are
it.
Always make me laugh that people build fast X country machines and use them in
that mode maybe once or twice a year. Some never do it because they can't get
the time or the other seat filled.
With the 601s, big distances will be frustrating but it WILL do it and in the meantime
your weekends will be fun and low cost. And let's face it, they're easier
to fly and land and in my estimation about 1/2-2/3 the cost of an RV for the
average completed VFR unit.
Perry Morrison
__________________________
Dr. Perry Morrison
Morrison Associates Pty Ltd
0408892638
perrymorrison@yahoo.com
__________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Suburu cooling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
yes,,, a custom engine mount is needed so that there
is more space between the engine and the firewall.
Michel
--- Charles Heathco <cheathco@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
> <cheathco@comcast.net>
>
> Interestng setup, I dont have any room for something
> like that tho, charlie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suburu cooling
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
> <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> >
> > While I had difficulties with almost everything of
> my
> > engine installation (leaking manifold, bad design
> for
> > engine mount, burned valves, cracked exhaust, too
> lean
> > carburetor then, ice-making carburetor,falling
> piece
> > off my reduction drive unit, etc etc), cooling is
> one
> > area where I got immediate success.
> >
> > I have a VW Rabbit radiator mounted between the
> > firewall and the engine (inside the custom made
> > cowling). Initially, I had a B&M oil cooler
> mounted
> > on the radiator. While water temp was good (185
> to
> > 195F), oil was too cool (160F). So, I removed the
> oil
> > cooler.
> >
> > Oil temp in summer stays between 195 and 220 (I
> use
> > Castrol Syntech oil). As cold weather arrived,
> oil
> > became cool (< 190F), so I blocked part of the
> lower
> > opening on my cowling for the winter. Water temp
> > stays at thermostat temp. (185F).
> >
> > Details are shown on my web site for the radiator
> > installation and the cowling:
> >
> > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/chengine5.htm
> > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/chcowling.htm
> >
> >
> > Michel
> > PS: I'm happy to say I passed my in-flight
> > examination today! I still have the theory exam
> to do
> > before qualifying for the PPL.
> >
> >
> > --- Charles Heathco <cheathco@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles
> Heathco"
> >> <cheathco@comcast.net>
> >>
> >> I have read with intrest the posts on dying
> subys.
> >> Seems cooling is the
> >> culprit. This 601UDS that I have has radiator
> >> mounted almost flat under
> >> cokcpit area, and lowercowl has about a 6" hole
> that
> >> would direct air toward
> >> the opening in front of it. (cowel not installed)
> >> Looks like it will blow
> >> over it and not thru it. There is a 601UD at Jax
> >> county,, where I go for
> >> practice and gas, and it has a P-51 looking scoop
> >> under it. I saw it taxi by
> >> one day but havent had a chance to look it over
> or
> >> talk to owner. There is a
> >> note in papers from builder that Radiator needs
> >> Modification. Anyone have
> >> Pix or drawing of how they placed and cooled
> >> radiator? Charlie
> >>
> >
> > =====
> > ----------------------------
> > Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
> > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> >
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> > http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > http://my.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Corvair discussion |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dickrourke" <dickrourke@myway.com>
>I'm not trying to ignite a debate, just stating a preference. In my >book the
Corvair is a every bit as reliable as the Jabiru 3300, >based on William Wynne's
experience, and less than half the cost. I >also like the idea of
>being able to build it from plans.
>Phil Maxson
>601 XL/ Corvair
I'm interested too. However, although I believe absolutely in W. Wynne's integrity,
honesty, and careful methodology, I have never heard of an airframe or engine
design that did not after years of field experience continue to turn up
design faults of varying severity (never mind construction goofs).
Reliability in aviation can best be measured by hours in flight, imho. That is,
I assume that if I opt for the Corvair that I will be truly experimenting (with
all the frustrations and risks described so well by others in this thread)
- and moreover I'll be on the particularly risky front edge of real-time experience,
theories and short-term tests notwithstanding. And that's assuming that
I follow correctly every aspect of his plans and advice.
do not archive
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus E-81/modified heads |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 11:28 PM 11/22/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>also how do I get to the airsoob site? charlie
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/airsoob/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Suburu cooling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Charles,
I made the intake as you can see on the Subaru engine set of pictures.
It has an external shape and an internal one that enlarges as it reaches the
radiator opening.
I live in East Moline, Illinois, which is, part of the Quad Cities
on the Mississippi river. I fly out of Moline (MLI).
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suburu cooling
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
> <cheathco@comcast.net>
>
> Ok, thats gives me some Idea, I guess the louvers help suck the air thru
> it.
> Is the scoop a readymade item, or has to be built up? By the way where are
> you located? charlie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suburu cooling
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
>> <larrymc@qconline.com>
>>
>> Charlie,
>> I mounted a Rabbit radiator under the belly and placed an intake on the
>> front of it that
>> smooths the air, reduces the air coming into it and slows the air a bit
>> on
>> expansion. Louvers were
>> added to the bottom of the radiator that provide negative draft and pull
>> air
>> through it.
>> The coolant has not seen anything over 197 degrees and with the fall air,
>> it
>> stays nearer 180 deg F.
>> The angles the radiator is supported on are long enough to place it up
>> front
>> near the gear, or as far as
>> 38" aft of the gear and temps don't seem to be affected by any position.
>> The scoop might remind you
>> of the P51 as it has the same sort of look.
>> You can see the setup on my site at the completions page and construction
>> details half way down the
>> subaru engine page if you're interested.
>>
>> Larry McFarland - 601HDS @ www.macsmachine.com
>>
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Suburu cooling
>>
>>
>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
>>> <cheathco@comcast.net>
>>>
>>> I have read with intrest the posts on dying subys. Seems cooling is the
>>> culprit. Anyone have pix or drawing of how they placed and cooled
>>> radiator? Charlie
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jake Reyna" <jake@lockhart-tx.com>
I've been reading this list for 2 years, bought and sold a HDS kit, and
currently have an XL on order. Seems like this thread got off track just a
bit from the original "XL vs. RV". Using HDS performance and/or shortcomings
in response isn't a fair comparison, sorry Frank ....
The information I've gathered from this list is that a Jabiru powered XL
will have excellent performance with only one drawback, the cost due to the
current exchange rate. But it is less money than the Rotax 912S after you
add the FWF. Another viable option is the Corvair Conversion. Keeping with
the "Experimental" frame of mind, a motivated builder could easily build a
Corvair powered XL for $30 - 35k. This is significantly less than an RV. One
significant plus for the XL is removable wings. In my neck of the woods that
will save at least $2,000 annually ......
As for build time, I've watched the guys at the airport build 3 RV's over
the last few years, the last being a RV-9A. They spent 11 months working
full time and this wasn't their first airplane. They've built over 20 in
years past. RV's are great airplanes, if you have the time. It's been said
it's better to build the 50% perfect airplane in 6 months than to spend
years trying to complete the 100% perfect airplane.
Dr. Perry Morrison just posted some excellent thoughts. Do you actually need
the speed? Speed and altitude guarantees that you will miss everything in
between.
Jake
Message 7
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| Subject: | Stratus E-81/modified heads |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
I bought a repair manual for a 1984 Subaru Brat vehicle. I used it to
rebuild the entire engine. Was pretty decent. In fact, when I ask for
parts at the auto parts store I always ask for parts to fit this same
vehicle. I don't tell them that it's for an airplane. Everything has
fit fine, including connecting rod and crankshaft bearings.
Good Luck,
Jim
601HDS, Stratus w/225 hours
Concord, Ga.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JERICKSON03E@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 11/22/2004 4:47:51 PM Central Standard Time,
cheathco@comcast.net writes:
Only thing I have about the engine is a Maint guide which does give
valve adj spects (I assume same with this head.) Dont have head bolt
torqe info.
Anyone have this info? charlie heathco
The local library might have, or be able to find a shop manual.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Suburu cooling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
Yes, I do a lot of fiberglassing. Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suburu cooling
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
<cheathco@comcast.net>
>
> Ok, Tnx, another aproach, did you make the box from scratch? charlie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suburu cooling
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
> >
> > Check out my site, page http://www.angelfire.com/un/ch701/scoop.html.
> > It's
> > on my 701, but should work just the same on a 601. That's my test
pilot,
> > so he thinks. Larry N1345L
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>To:
> > <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Suburu cooling
> >
> >
> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
> > <cheathco@comcast.net>
> >>
> >> I have read with intrest the posts on dying subys. Seems cooling is the
> >> culprit. This 601UDS that I have has radiator mounted almost flat under
> >> cokcpit area, and lowercowl has about a 6" hole that would direct air
> > toward
> >> the opening in front of it. (cowel not installed) Looks like it will
blow
> >> over it and not thru it. There is a 601UD at Jax county,, where I go
for
> >> practice and gas, and it has a P-51 looking scoop under it. I saw it
taxi
> > by
> >> one day but havent had a chance to look it over or talk to owner. There
> >> is
> > a
> >> note in papers from builder that Radiator needs Modification. Anyone
have
> >> Pix or drawing of how they placed and cooled radiator? Charlie
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Larry,
I really like the louvers on your radiator. I've thought about doing
this, but haven't tried it yet. Do you have a drawing that shows how
you made them? Did you bend individual strips, or is that all one
assembly.
Thanks,
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suburu cooling
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Charlie,
I mounted a Rabbit radiator under the belly and placed an intake on the
front of it that smooths the air, reduces the air coming into it and
slows the air a bit on expansion. Louvers were added to the bottom of
the radiator that provide negative draft and pull air through it.
The coolant has not seen anything over 197 degrees and with the fall
air, it stays nearer 180 deg F.
The angles the radiator is supported on are long enough to place it up
front near the gear, or as far as 38" aft of the gear and temps don't
seem to be affected by any position.
The scoop might remind you
of the P51 as it has the same sort of look.
You can see the setup on my site at the completions page and
construction details half way down the subaru engine page if you're
interested.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS @ www.macsmachine.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Suburu cooling
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
> <cheathco@comcast.net>
>
> I have read with intrest the posts on dying subys. Seems cooling is
> the culprit. Anyone have pix or drawing of how they placed and cooled
> radiator? Charlie
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Wanted CH701 Kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert C. Owens" <bobowens@avlaw.com>
Anyone have a CH701 kit for sale (don't need the tail)
Bob
Robert C. Owens
Board Certified in Aviation Law
www.avlaw.com
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Bob/Application%20Data/Microsoft/Sign
atures/www.avlaw.com>
Available 24/7 at:
AvLaw
6630 SW 50th Terrace
Miami, Florida 33155
Tel: (305) 669-9263
Fax: (305) 662-7151
Cell: (305) 586-3721
Email: bobowens@avlaw.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Stratus E-81/modified heads |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
2929 Clinton Rd.
Clinton, Ohio 44216
330-882-6255
Hours Monday-Friday 8am-5pm est.
Saturday till 12:00
Now accepts all major credit cards!
engineinfo@aol.com
Now lets be clear what we mean by working relationship...I am in no way
connect with Ram nor do I get any financial discount or
consideration.....Perhaps I should?...:)
Ron is simply the ONLY guy working on Ea81's that knows how a valve
guide should be fitted. He is also (or was) the only guy that could make
valve guides from scratch, economically to the CORRECT size and with a
step on the outside of the guide...Beautiful work.
Oh justtake a standard 17mm socket and try to fit it over the center
head bolt (under the rocker arm) you will see a small problem that will
require most of the socket to be removed.
FRank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Heathco
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
--> <cheathco@comcast.net>
Grind the snot out of the socket? :-) sounds like you have a working
relationshio with ram, you have a ph# or web adr/e-mail? Tnx, Charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> I think Ron at Ram Performance told me 10/12 thou some time back...I
> just went conservative on this and ended up at 12/14.
>
> I can't tell you about the sequenece...I can tell you you will have to
> grind the snot out of a socket to check the first bolt under the
> rocker arm.
>
> The RAM # should be stamped on one end of each head....Its pretty
> obvious.
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
> Heathco
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
> --> <cheathco@comcast.net>
>
> Thanks, I hope to run across more on the Ram heads in the stack of
> papers I have. I could probably tighten using sequence I learned long
> ime ago on car
> engines, center out 1/3, 1/3, then up to the 47lb. charlie. The Maint
> manual
> gives valve clrance both at .014 cold. Did you use .012/,017 for a
> special
> reason? Charlie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>
>> Charlie,
>>
>> If the heads were reworked by Ram there will be a RAM # stamped on
>> the
>
>> heads...Mine said RAM 303...Check to make sure this info is stamped
>> in
>
>> the heads.....ALL the valve guides will be bronze colout (you can see
>> the colour through the springs)...The double springs (inner and
>> outer)
>
>> were replaced with a single spring in my case.
>>
>> Head bolt torque is 47 foot pounds...You will need a soob manual for
>> the correct tightening order though.
>>
>> I set my clearances to 12 thou inlet and 14 thou exhaust.
>>
>> Makesure you re egap the valves after say 5 hours of running and
>> check
>
>> them again after another 10hours.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
>> Heathco
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
>>
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
>> --> <cheathco@comcast.net>
>>
>> Hiya, I finally got missing info on this 601HDS project and there is
>> a
>
>> note that the heads were reworked by Ram Performance (fixes potential
>> valve guide
>> problems) and that the bolts have not been torqed, nor valve
> clearances
>> set.
>> Only thing I have about the engine is a Maint guide which does give
>> valve adj spects (I assume same with this head.) Dont have head bolt
>> torqe info.
>> Anyone have this info? charlie heathco
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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|
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=CRg0bXrolZBs+4W/i2mMVHtjqyFTt/ogCywxx6HXeb/Z0koz3yVJFy4DrMLc+CZlvm8UJJF3M4m6whtvL+DplKCIsDFvfZfj5Uz+dsJTnr9Rlh+AeCvgQBeflXggLK4+X0w5RtON695oArQjaHDQl4R9r96UHoWUxsrJpyBWQwU=
;
| Subject: | Subject: Zenith-List, Subaru Head Torquing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
NO, Charlie, a thousand times NO.
The Subaru engines are different from many (most?) other automotive
engines. That rule-of-thumb doesn't work. You need to follow the official
Subaru torquing sequence for your specific engine model. It's probably not
just "center out". It might work OK for an automotive application, but in an
A/C you can't pull off & park on the side of a cloud if there's a problem. You
really want to be certain! Using the correct sequence is the wisest course of
action in this matter.
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
> --> <cheathco@comcast.net>
>
> I could probably tighten using sequence I learned long ime ago on car
> engines, center out 1/3, 1/3, then up to the 47lb. charlie.
>
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
True, but ZAC has a long history of exagerated performance
claims...Van's does not...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jake Reyna
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jake Reyna" <jake@lockhart-tx.com>
I've been reading this list for 2 years, bought and sold a HDS kit, and
currently have an XL on order. Seems like this thread got off track just
a bit from the original "XL vs. RV". Using HDS performance and/or
shortcomings in response isn't a fair comparison, sorry Frank ....
The information I've gathered from this list is that a Jabiru powered XL
will have excellent performance with only one drawback, the cost due to
the current exchange rate. But it is less money than the Rotax 912S
after you add the FWF. Another viable option is the Corvair Conversion.
Keeping with the "Experimental" frame of mind, a motivated builder could
easily build a Corvair powered XL for $30 - 35k. This is significantly
less than an RV. One significant plus for the XL is removable wings. In
my neck of the woods that will save at least $2,000 annually ......
As for build time, I've watched the guys at the airport build 3 RV's
over the last few years, the last being a RV-9A. They spent 11 months
working full time and this wasn't their first airplane. They've built
over 20 in years past. RV's are great airplanes, if you have the time.
It's been said it's better to build the 50% perfect airplane in 6 months
than to spend years trying to complete the 100% perfect airplane.
Dr. Perry Morrison just posted some excellent thoughts. Do you actually
need the speed? Speed and altitude guarantees that you will miss
everything in between.
Jake
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV |
Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:14:05 -0600
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
Frank,
Even you would admit that you've said this at least a thousand times...maybe you
could refrain for a few years????
Best of luck with the RV. Now you'll be just another another cookie-cutter a/c
at flyins.
regards jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)<mailto:frank.hinde@hp.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com<mailto:frank.hinde@hp.com>>
True, but ZAC has a long history of exagerated performance
claims...Van's does not...:)
Frank
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus E-81/modified heads |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>
Tnx, I looked at pix but didnt see any about radiator cowl. Charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim and Lucy" <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
>
> At 11:28 PM 11/22/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>>also how do I get to the airsoob site? charlie
>
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/airsoob/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus E-81/modified heads |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>
Jim where is Concord Ga? Its not in the index on my map? charlie (Atlanta)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
>
> I bought a repair manual for a 1984 Subaru Brat vehicle. I used it to
> rebuild the entire engine. Was pretty decent. In fact, when I ask for
> parts at the auto parts store I always ask for parts to fit this same
> vehicle. I don't tell them that it's for an airplane. Everything has
> fit fine, including connecting rod and crankshaft bearings.
>
> Good Luck,
> Jim
> 601HDS, Stratus w/225 hours
> Concord, Ga.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> JERICKSON03E@aol.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 11/22/2004 4:47:51 PM Central Standard Time,
> cheathco@comcast.net writes:
>
> Only thing I have about the engine is a Maint guide which does give
> valve adj spects (I assume same with this head.) Dont have head bolt
> torqe info.
> Anyone have this info? charlie heathco
> The local library might have, or be able to find a shop manual.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Subject: Zenith-List, Subaru Head Torquing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>
Ok, Couple have tried, but I hant gotten a pix of the sequence yet, can you
help? charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Raker" <phadr1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Subject: Zenith-List, Subaru Head Torquing
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
>
> NO, Charlie, a thousand times NO.
> The Subaru engines are different from many (most?) other automotive
> engines. That rule-of-thumb doesn't work. You need to follow the
> official
> Subaru torquing sequence for your specific engine model. It's probably
> not
> just "center out". It might work OK for an automotive application, but in
> an
> A/C you can't pull off & park on the side of a cloud if there's a problem.
> You
> really want to be certain! Using the correct sequence is the wisest
> course of
> action in this matter.
>
> Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
>> --> <cheathco@comcast.net>
>>
>> I could probably tighten using sequence I learned long ime ago on car
>> engines, center out 1/3, 1/3, then up to the 47lb. charlie.
>>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus E-81/modified heads |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>
Ok, thnx, Im going to call him, charlie. By the way is the adr
engineinfo@aol his email?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> 2929 Clinton Rd.
> Clinton, Ohio 44216
> 330-882-6255
> Hours Monday-Friday 8am-5pm est.
> Saturday till 12:00
> Now accepts all major credit cards!
>
> engineinfo@aol.com
>
> Now lets be clear what we mean by working relationship...I am in no way
> connect with Ram nor do I get any financial discount or
> consideration.....Perhaps I should?...:)
>
> Ron is simply the ONLY guy working on Ea81's that knows how a valve
> guide should be fitted. He is also (or was) the only guy that could make
> valve guides from scratch, economically to the CORRECT size and with a
> step on the outside of the guide...Beautiful work.
>
> Oh justtake a standard 17mm socket and try to fit it over the center
> head bolt (under the rocker arm) you will see a small problem that will
> require most of the socket to be removed.
>
> FRank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
> Heathco
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
> --> <cheathco@comcast.net>
>
> Grind the snot out of the socket? :-) sounds like you have a working
> relationshio with ram, you have a ph# or web adr/e-mail? Tnx, Charlie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>
>> I think Ron at Ram Performance told me 10/12 thou some time back...I
>> just went conservative on this and ended up at 12/14.
>>
>> I can't tell you about the sequenece...I can tell you you will have to
>
>> grind the snot out of a socket to check the first bolt under the
>> rocker arm.
>>
>> The RAM # should be stamped on one end of each head....Its pretty
>> obvious.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
>> Heathco
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
>>
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
>> --> <cheathco@comcast.net>
>>
>> Thanks, I hope to run across more on the Ram heads in the stack of
>> papers I have. I could probably tighten using sequence I learned long
>> ime ago on car
>> engines, center out 1/3, 1/3, then up to the 47lb. charlie. The Maint
>> manual
>> gives valve clrance both at .014 cold. Did you use .012/,017 for a
>> special
>> reason? Charlie
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
>>
>>
>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>>> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>>
>>> Charlie,
>>>
>>> If the heads were reworked by Ram there will be a RAM # stamped on
>>> the
>>
>>> heads...Mine said RAM 303...Check to make sure this info is stamped
>>> in
>>
>>> the heads.....ALL the valve guides will be bronze colout (you can see
>
>>> the colour through the springs)...The double springs (inner and
>>> outer)
>>
>>> were replaced with a single spring in my case.
>>>
>>> Head bolt torque is 47 foot pounds...You will need a soob manual for
>>> the correct tightening order though.
>>>
>>> I set my clearances to 12 thou inlet and 14 thou exhaust.
>>>
>>> Makesure you re egap the valves after say 5 hours of running and
>>> check
>>
>>> them again after another 10hours.
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
>>> Heathco
>>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Zenith-List: Stratus E-81/modified heads
>>>
>>>
>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
>>> --> <cheathco@comcast.net>
>>>
>>> Hiya, I finally got missing info on this 601HDS project and there is
>>> a
>>
>>> note that the heads were reworked by Ram Performance (fixes potential
>
>>> valve guide
>>> problems) and that the bolts have not been torqed, nor valve
>> clearances
>>> set.
>>> Only thing I have about the engine is a Maint guide which does give
>>> valve adj spects (I assume same with this head.) Dont have head bolt
>>> torqe info.
>>> Anyone have this info? charlie heathco
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair discussion |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Butterfield <r_butterfield@earthlink.net>
At 09:19 AM 11/23/04, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dickrourke" <dickrourke@myway.com>
>
>Reliability in aviation can best be measured by hours in flight, imho.
If you go to this page
http://www.flycorvair.com/cc83.html
and scroll down to the fourth picture, you will see 3 fairly recent Corvair
planes with a total of over 400 hours on them. The youngest has only been
flying since the end of August.
Regards,
RonB
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair discussion |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
On Tue Nov 23 at 6:21 AM, dickrourke (dickrourke@myway.com) wrote:
<snip>
Reliability in aviation can best be measured by hours in flight, imho. That
is, I assume that if I opt for the Corvair that I will be truly
experimenting
(with all the frustrations and risks described so well by others in this
thread) - and moreover I'll be on the particularly risky front edge
of real-time experience, theories and short-term tests notwithstanding.
And that's assuming that I follow correctly every aspect of his plans
and advice.
<snip>
The Jabiru is an excellent engine and I don't know the numbers but I
wouldn't be surprized if Corvairs have accumulated more flight hours in the
last 44 years than Jabiru have in the 11 years since it was certified in
1993. Seems to me that there is a volume of independent flight experience
available and WW has been able to successfully sift the chaff to provide a
balanced discussion of the applicability of this engine to a variety of
aircraft.
In the end we all accept that this is EXPERIMENTAL aviation including all
the implications of that fact. The Corvair is not the engine for everyone.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it is best chosen only by those who
can
fully accept responsibility for their own actions and are fully capable of
knowing for themselves that they have built a safe and reliable engine by
the end of the process. Given this approach, some are going to be more
comfortable relying on others to make engineering choices that they know
nothing of, and cannot verify even if they wanted to. That's one of the
things I like about this; the choices are ours to make.
neil
601XL/Corvair
Fuselage and stuff
Golf: All the frustration of building your own aircraft at a fraction of the
cost.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Ok well I'll try it for a week or two and see how it goes...:)
But your right, I can't be bothered to even walk down the rows and rows
of RV's at fly ins and nor can most people it seems. Its just like rows
and rows of spam cans!
On the 601 I have swarms of folks begging me to take the cowl off...I
could charge admission....:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Small
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
Frank,
Even you would admit that you've said this at least a thousand
times...maybe you could refrain for a few years????
Best of luck with the RV. Now you'll be just another another
cookie-cutter a/c at flyins.
regards jeff
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Suburu cooling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Jim,
The louvers are made individually and I believe there are 12 or 13 of them
using .025. I've attached a drawing and guidance. Much simpler
than they appear. Kelly Meisty says he's gotten better cooling since
installing a set on his 601.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Suburu cooling
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
>
> Larry,
>
> I really like the louvers on your radiator. I've thought about doing
> this, but haven't tried it yet. Do you have a drawing that shows how
> you made them? Did you bend individual strips, or is that all one
> assembly.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
Message 23
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Thanks Larry, but the attachment didn't make it through. Go ahead and
send it to my email address if you would. It's k4cod@bellsouth.net
Thanks,
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suburu cooling
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Jim,
The louvers are made individually and I believe there are 12 or 13 of
them using .025. I've attached a drawing and guidance. Much simpler
than they appear. Kelly Meisty says he's gotten better cooling since
installing a set on his 601.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Suburu cooling
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim"
<Jim.Weston@delta.com>
>
> Larry,
>
> I really like the louvers on your radiator. I've thought about doing
> this, but haven't tried it yet. Do you have a drawing that shows how
> you made them? Did you bend individual strips, or is that all one
> assembly.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>
Spam cans! Now now Frank, charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Ok well I'll try it for a week or two and see how it goes...:)
>
> But your right, I can't be bothered to even walk down the rows and rows
> of RV's at fly ins and nor can most people it seems. Its just like rows
> and rows of spam cans!
>
> On the 601 I have swarms of folks begging me to take the cowl off...I
> could charge admission....:)
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Small
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>
> Frank,
>
> Even you would admit that you've said this at least a thousand
> times...maybe you could refrain for a few years????
>
> Best of luck with the RV. Now you'll be just another another
> cookie-cutter a/c at flyins.
>
> regards jeff
>
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Corvair discussion |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Fulp" <jrfulp@ncia.net>
I would like to ask this list a question.....many years ago we played with
the Corvair engine and the big
problem was breaking the crankshaft. Add just a little to much torque or to
much fuel/air.. and boom.
Now this was in the early 70's and racing the 1/4 mile but I have not heard
of this replacement for
the aircraft engine. Has this been a problem or is a different crankshaft is
being used.
Just an old drag racer
John
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Corvair discussion
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
On Tue Nov 23 at 6:21 AM, dickrourke (dickrourke@myway.com) wrote:
<snip>
Reliability in aviation can best be measured by hours in flight, imho. That
is, I assume that if I opt for the Corvair that I will be truly
experimenting
(with all the frustrations and risks described so well by others in this
thread) - and moreover I'll be on the particularly risky front edge
of real-time experience, theories and short-term tests notwithstanding.
And that's assuming that I follow correctly every aspect of his plans
and advice.
<snip>
The Jabiru is an excellent engine and I don't know the numbers but I
wouldn't be surprized if Corvairs have accumulated more flight hours in the
last 44 years than Jabiru have in the 11 years since it was certified in
1993. Seems to me that there is a volume of independent flight experience
available and WW has been able to successfully sift the chaff to provide a
balanced discussion of the applicability of this engine to a variety of
aircraft.
In the end we all accept that this is EXPERIMENTAL aviation including all
the implications of that fact. The Corvair is not the engine for everyone.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it is best chosen only by those who
can
fully accept responsibility for their own actions and are fully capable of
knowing for themselves that they have built a safe and reliable engine by
the end of the process. Given this approach, some are going to be more
comfortable relying on others to make engineering choices that they know
nothing of, and cannot verify even if they wanted to. That's one of the
things I like about this; the choices are ours to make.
neil
601XL/Corvair
Fuselage and stuff
Golf: All the frustration of building your own aircraft at a fraction of the
cost.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: The Zodiac XL vs. RV |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>
>But your right, I can't be bothered to even walk down the rows and rows
>of RV's at fly ins and nor can most people it seems. Its just like rows
>and rows of spam cans!
>
>On the 601 I have swarms of folks begging me to take the cowl off...I
>could charge admission....:)
>
>Frank
Yeah but even that will be fleeting. I built the 12th RV to fly (#2 in Texas) about
a hundred yrs ago and remember well the crowd that would gather every time
I landed somewhere. As time passed the crowd diminished but the thrill of flying
it down the beach at 10' and 200mph did not. Now I'm building a 701 as I'm
not in as big a hurry as I once was. LOW&SLOW
John Bolding
Message 27
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| Subject: | Small Access Port |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Battery Charging Port:
I put the Cole-Hersey external connector back on the shelf for being too heavy
and
refuse to cut openings in skins that have any kind of corners, so I fabricated
a simpler improved lid, back plate and hinge to support charger connections, not
starting cables, to the batteries. The lid opens outward with no hinge in the
skin. This design eliminates corner cracks because the 1-1/2" x 2" rectangular
hole in the skin will have 3/8" radius corners. The back plate reinforces
the skin and supports an internal hinge that reaches thru the hole to hold the
lid. The only exposed items are the door and one Dzus-fastener. Parts were sand
blasted and zinc-chromated. When complete, the port-assembly will be fitted
to the side or the bottom skin near the batteries. It's been done on car body
elements like a gas cap door, but I thought it worth mentioning because it's
difficult to get good limited access to some areas of an aircraft's skin.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair discussion |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
On Tue Nov 23 at 2:42 PM, John Fulp (jrfulp@ncia.net) wrote:
<snip>
I would like to ask this list a question.....many years ago we
played with the Corvair engine and the big problem was
breaking the crankshaft. Add just a little to much torque or to
much fuel/air.. and boom. Now this was in the early 70's
and racing the 1/4 mile but I have not heard of this replacement
for the aircraft engine. Has this been a problem or is a
different crankshaft is being used.
<snip>
John,
Firstly, for clarification, the Corvair conversion being discussed in this
thread is the one described by William Wynne (www.flycorvair.com) in his
conversion manual. This is a 164 cid, 9:1 compression ratio, naturally
aspirated, direct drive version and uses a stock crankshaft either at
original spec or with a 10/10 regrind. The engine runs only to around 3300
RPM maximum in this configuration. The engine can deliver around 100 - 110
hp at these RPMs due to an after-market cam and modified distributor. The
modification also includes forged pistons. It isn't as if we are building
dune buggy engines delivering 300hp. The same crankshaft is in the stock
140hp dual-carb and 180hp turbo road vehicles so asking 110hp out of it is
well within its design limits. Cruise flight at 65% - 75% power is well
below what was expected of this engine in the car.
The problem with broken crankshafts on aircraft usually comes from two
sources;
1 - The weight of the prop, prop hub, and spinner.
The problem is the prop's gyroscopic effect during abrupt maneuvers which
will apply forces to the crankshaft that is was not expected or designed to
handle. WW, in his conversion manual, lists the four factors (paraphrased
here) determining the adverse mechanical loading of the crankshaft as; prop
weight, RPM, position of the prop mass (i.e., prop extension or hub length),
and rate of change of aircraft attitude. WW has extensive discussion of
these issues in his manual. To summarize though, use a light prop and keep
the prop close to the engine.
2 - Harmonic Interactions.
These are usually exhibited by propeller reduction drives where the physical
interaction of the various components results in destructive torsional
flexing of the engine crankshaft. Since the WW conversion is direct drive,
this is not an issue.
Hope that this clarifies the crankshaft concerns for you.
..neil
601XL/Corvair
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Suburu cooling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
> Jim,
> The louvers are made individually and I believe there are 12 or 13 of them
> using .025. I've attached a drawing and guidance. Much simpler
> than they appear. Kelly Meisty says he's gotten better cooling since
> installing a set on his 601.
>
> Larry
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jim,
Yes my coolant temps dropped about 10 deg, and oil temps dropped by about 15
deg. after going with "Larry's louvers". I spaced out about 12 of them over
the face of my rad. One other advantage with these slick little fins is now
my rad is protected from debris thrown up from my non-faired front tire
(looks cool also).
Thanks again Larry, EXCELLENT design!
Kelly Meiste
601 HD Stratus (108 hours)
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