Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:53 AM - What're you doing to your soobs? (Dr. Perry Morrison)
2. 04:33 AM - Re: Re: Corvair discussion (Jake Reyna)
3. 06:14 AM - Re: Re: Corvair discussion (kevinbonds@comcast.net)
4. 07:36 AM - XL vs. RV (kim.forest@surewest.net)
5. 09:15 AM - Re: What're you doing to your soobs? (Larry McFarland)
6. 09:33 AM - Re: What're you doing to your soobs? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
7. 09:42 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 11/22/04 (Grant Corriveau)
8. 09:50 AM - cam 100 in XL 601 (John)
9. 09:55 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 11/22/04 (Grant Corriveau)
10. 04:00 PM - Re: XL vs. RV (Charles Heathco)
11. 04:00 PM - Re: What're you doing to your soobs? (Don WALKER)
Message 1
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| Subject: | What're you doing to your soobs? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison" <perrymorrison@yahoo.com>
I don't understand the consternation about soobs on this list. They seem to be
bullet proof where I live- especially when stock. I think people are just asking
too much from the engine.
In the context of the RV vs 601 debate I would have to say the 601 HD with a stock
soob is the absolute best bang for the buck possible in homebuilts.
A local guy has a stock soob HD taildragger that has flown the length and breadth
of Australia. That hi lift wing works very well with the average 75hp stock
EA-81. He has LE and locker tanks, the world's biggest BRS sitting where the
firewall tank goes and more avionics than a game parlour but it gets off well
and cruises the same as my 912 powered trigear- 85 knots. (and I suspect that's
what most HDs get)
Yes, ZAC bent the performance numbers, but the HD with such a cheap engine is a
wonderful medium range cruiser that will handle the occasional long trip where
time is of no object. Maybe others can find a 2 seat, all metal homebuilt with
reasonable build time that can cross continents if they have to, and all for
not much more than a family sedan- but I can't.
So why do your soobs give you so much trouble?
Perry Morrison
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Corvair discussion |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jake Reyna" <jake@lockhart-tx.com>
John,
Since nobody else has responded, here's my view. Sounds like you were
running the engine in extreme conditions, racing. Corvairs have been used in
airplanes for forty years, the first in Pietenpols, and they were only
generating 75hp in that configuration. William Wynne's conversion uses 1965
- 69 engines/cranks that were designed to run at up to 180hp. His conversion
is rated at 110 - 125hp at 2,800 to 3,200 rpm, significantly less the 5,500
rpm redline used in the auto application. I'm thinking that you were
probably running near 5,500 rpm when you were racing ...... but I could be
wrong.
But wait, there's more ..... and you should go to www.flycorvair.com and get
the rest of the story. I would also suggest purchasing his Conversion
Manual, knowledge is power.
Jake
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair discussion |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
Neil,
I play putt-putt and plansbuild ;)
Kevin Bonds
do not archive
> nothing of, and cannot verify even if they wanted to. That's one of the
> things I like about this; the choices are ours to make.
>
> neil
> 601XL/Corvair
> Fuselage and stuff
>
> Golf: All the frustration of building your own aircraft at a fraction of the
> cost.
>
Neil,
I play putt-putt and plansbuild ;)
Kevin Bonds
do not archive
nothing of, and cannot verify even if they wanted to. That's one of the
things I like about this; the choices are ours to make.
neil
601XL/Corvair
Fuselage and stuff
Golf: All the frustration of building your own aircraft at a fraction of the
cost.
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: kim.forest@surewest.net
OK - this will be the last one from me, but It's been fun reading all of
the opinions on this subject.
My factory demo ride in the XL was GREAT. I found the performance numbers
to be exaggerated on the LOW side! Yes - the LOW side... My best guess
is that ZAC is trying to market the XL to the potential sport pilots out
there. However, with the Jabiru 3300 engine it can definitely exceeded
the top end numbers for the sport pilot category.
It's not as fast as an RV, but it's faster and cheaper to build - $10,000+
just considering a new engine (Jab vs. Lyc). And if I get a 200 hour head
start, it will take the RV another 200 hours to catch-up once they get it
in the air (140 mph vs. 200 mph). For the average recreational flyer,
that's two years of flying!
Let's face it, if money weren't an issue we'd all go with a Gulfstream V.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: What're you doing to your soobs? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
You're right Perry,
the Subaru is bullet proof, but increased compression to get 100 hp requires
you look closely at fuel mixture and the efficiency of the radiator
installation. Just hanging the gear and flying it on the 601 has caused a
lot of reported overheated exhaust valves and heads. There is certainly
enough info available to avoid these problems, for even the novice
non-engine guy, but he has to read and understand the info first. A better
valve guide installation like Ram Performance is also a good
idea when dealing with a 100 hp Subaru. There are a lot of guys flying
these with great reliability
and economy, but there is a learning curve for success.
Larry McFarland
Subject: Zenith-List: What're you doing to your soobs?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison"
> <perrymorrison@yahoo.com>
>
>
> I don't understand the consternation about soobs on this list. They seem
> to be bullet proof where I live- especially when stock. I think people are
> just asking too much from the engine.
>
> So why do your soobs give you so much trouble?
>
> Perry Morrison
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | What're you doing to your soobs? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I think you answered your own question Perry.
The only soobs that seem to have a problem are those that come from a
single manufacturer. This engine has been stretched to 100HP so it is
definatly not stock. It appears the hi lift cam makes the valve spring
retainers touch the tops of the valve guides when installed at the
standard height. Not a good situation for sure.
Secondly, the soobs are old enough now that many of the heads that are
gotten into a repair shop have already "worked on"...read the valve
guides have been botched to fit in the heads.
Thridly said manufacturer thinks the botched gudes are "OK" when they
are not. Hence the "solution" provided is inadequate.
Once again Ram Performance is the only outfit that understands the issue
and can remedy it properly.
So yes your right a stock 80HP motor that has not had anyone messing
with replacing guides is prbably about as bullet proof as you can get
Except of course the ignitor chip is notoriously feeble and either needs
to be replaced and/or a backup solution provided. Pretty easy to do
though.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Perry
Morrison
Subject: Zenith-List: What're you doing to your soobs?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison"
--> <perrymorrison@yahoo.com>
I don't understand the consternation about soobs on this list. They seem
to be bullet proof where I live- especially when stock. I think people
are just asking too much from the engine.
In the context of the RV vs 601 debate I would have to say the 601 HD
with a stock soob is the absolute best bang for the buck possible in
homebuilts.
A local guy has a stock soob HD taildragger that has flown the length
and breadth of Australia. That hi lift wing works very well with the
average 75hp stock EA-81. He has LE and locker tanks, the world's
biggest BRS sitting where the firewall tank goes and more avionics than
a game parlour but it gets off well and cruises the same as my 912
powered trigear- 85 knots. (and I suspect that's what most HDs get)
Yes, ZAC bent the performance numbers, but the HD with such a cheap
engine is a wonderful medium range cruiser that will handle the
occasional long trip where time is of no object. Maybe others can find a
2 seat, all metal homebuilt with reasonable build time that can cross
continents if they have to, and all for not much more than a family
sedan- but I can't.
So why do your soobs give you so much trouble?
Perry Morrison
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 11/22/04 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
The only 'downside' you may need to consider -- as the elevator is more
powerful in cruise, then the maneuvering speed (Va) will be lower (if I'm
remembering the definition correctly....) As I recall Va is the speed above
which full sudden movement of the controls will stress the aircraft above
the limit. This could cause 'bad things' to happen, like wings falling off
-- then you'll make just one more REALLY SHORT landing! ;-)
Those beach landings do sound like a lot of fun!
Take care
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keystone Engineering
> LLC<keystone@gci.net>
>
> I suspect I will
> build and install the new horizontal tail. If I want more elevator I will
> install
> VGs on the new tail. I'm still trying to figure the down side, no change
> in cruise speed, more control on the bottom end and they are really cheap
> and
> easy to install!
Message 8
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| Subject: | cam 100 in XL 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John" <jcl64@scccinternet.com>
I have a cam 100 engine and would like to know more about how the radiator installation
would best be placed and who could build a motor mount to fit the XL
601 and the preformance with this installation and any other tips on this installation
and photos would also be of help THANKS EVERYONE. JOHN
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com).
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 11/22/04 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Well said, Matt! I'm retired now for less than three months. I still look
up when an Airbus goes overhead, and admire the beauty of flight. But I
don't miss it. I'm looking forward, instead, to getting my
'new-and-improved' zodie back out the CST3 (a prime example of a quiet
country airstrip!)
Enjoyed the ariticle - - now, back to building!
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
> Subject: A Pilot's Lot
>
> One fine hot Summer's afternoon a Cessna 150 was flying in the pattern
> at a quiet country airfield.
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>
Ill Ad that I checked the XL out on a very windy day, 22k, gust28k about 30d
off the right. (plenty hairy comming in in my Cherokee 140). The XL did very
well I thought, and speed and handling were good too. I was Impressed with
the plane. Charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: <kim.forest@surewest.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: XL vs. RV
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: kim.forest@surewest.net
>
> OK - this will be the last one from me, but It's been fun reading all of
> the opinions on this subject.
>
> My factory demo ride in the XL was GREAT. I found the performance numbers
> to be exaggerated on the LOW side! Yes - the LOW side... My best guess
> is that ZAC is trying to market the XL to the potential sport pilots out
> there. However, with the Jabiru 3300 engine it can definitely exceeded
> the top end numbers for the sport pilot category.
>
> It's not as fast as an RV, but it's faster and cheaper to build - $10,000+
> just considering a new engine (Jab vs. Lyc). And if I get a 200 hour head
> start, it will take the RV another 200 hours to catch-up once they get it
> in the air (140 mph vs. 200 mph). For the average recreational flyer,
> that's two years of flying!
>
> Let's face it, if money weren't an issue we'd all go with a Gulfstream V.
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: What're you doing to your soobs? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don WALKER" <d3dw@msn.com>
Perry,
Stratus has given soobs a bad history on this list due to a number that
were rebuilt with knurled valve guides that came loose (whether the engines
were overheated or not). Five or six have had to replace their heads after
failures. Stratus has also had trouble with engine mount brackets,
alternator brackets, and with underjetting the carbs. Also, Zenith seems to
have been unaware of the inadequacy of the cooling systems on this
appplication for the Soobs. These things have been discovered the hard way
by consumers rather than being discovered by the engine builder, Stratus.
These problems seem to have been generalized to the engine as a whole, which
is inaccurate. Don Walker HDS TD
>From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: What're you doing to your soobs?
>Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:14:11 -0600
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>You're right Perry,
>
>the Subaru is bullet proof, but increased compression to get 100 hp
>requires
>you look closely at fuel mixture and the efficiency of the radiator
>installation. Just hanging the gear and flying it on the 601 has caused a
>lot of reported overheated exhaust valves and heads. There is certainly
>enough info available to avoid these problems, for even the novice
>non-engine guy, but he has to read and understand the info first. A better
>valve guide installation like Ram Performance is also a good
>
>idea when dealing with a 100 hp Subaru. There are a lot of guys flying
>these with great reliability
>
>and economy, but there is a learning curve for success.
>
>
>Larry McFarland
>
>
>Subject: Zenith-List: What're you doing to your soobs?
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison"
> > <perrymorrison@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> > I don't understand the consternation about soobs on this list. They seem
> > to be bullet proof where I live- especially when stock. I think people
>are
> > just asking too much from the engine.
> >
> > So why do your soobs give you so much trouble?
> >
> > Perry Morrison
> >
> >
>
>
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