Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:19 AM - List of Contributors Coming Soon! (Matt Dralle)
2. 02:42 AM - CH701 BRS (f.hostettler@gmx.ch)
3. 05:50 AM - CH801 BRS (was CH701 BRS) (Gary Craze)
4. 06:30 AM - Re: Zenith Leading Edge Slat (Larry Martin)
5. 07:35 AM - Re: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
6. 07:49 AM - Re: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance (Michel Therrien)
7. 09:58 AM - Re: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance (Larry McFarland)
8. 10:39 AM - Re: Zenith Leading Edge Slat (Frank Stutzman)
9. 10:42 AM - Re: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
10. 11:04 AM - Re: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance (Larry McFarland)
11. 11:24 AM - Storing skins (Tommy Walker)
12. 12:01 PM - Re: Storing skins (jnbolding1)
13. 12:45 PM - [PLEASE READ] Lists Pummelled by Cashette.com Debacle... (Matt Dralle)
14. 01:00 PM - Re: Storing skins (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
15. 01:09 PM - Re: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
16. 01:10 PM - Re: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
17. 01:19 PM - Re: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance (Bill Cardell)
18. 01:29 PM - Re: Storing skins (Brandon Tucker)
19. 02:10 PM - Re: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance ()
20. 03:18 PM - alternate engines CH701 (Jon Croke)
21. 03:20 PM - Re: CH701 BRS (Mike Sinclair)
22. 03:25 PM - Re: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance (Michel Therrien)
23. 03:50 PM - Re: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance (Bill Cardell)
24. 04:04 PM - Re: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
25. 04:08 PM - Wing Costs (Howard Carter)
26. 04:59 PM - brake lines (Jack Russell)
27. 05:12 PM - Re: Zenith Leading Edge Slat (Gary Gower)
28. 05:28 PM - Re: brake lines (Bryan Martin)
29. 05:29 PM - Re: Zenith Leading Edge Slat (ron wehba)
30. 05:53 PM - Help!!!! (rical26)
31. 06:41 PM - Re: brake lines (Brett)
32. 07:03 PM - Re: Zenith Leading Edge Slat (Larry Martin)
33. 07:03 PM - Re: Wing Costs (Larry Martin)
34. 07:03 PM - Re: brake lines (Larry Martin)
35. 07:47 PM - Re: Brake lines (Brandon Tucker)
36. 08:11 PM - Re: Re: Brake lines (Cdngoose)
37. 10:18 PM - Re: Help!!!! (j.breit)
Message 1
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| Subject: | List of Contributors Coming Soon! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
There are only a couple more days left until the official end of this
year's Matronics List Fund Raiser. At the end of the month I compile and
post a list of all the members that made a Contribution to support the
Lists. Won't you take a moment and make sure your name is on that
list? Its your support that keeps these Lists up and running 24x7x365.
The List Contribution Site is easy and fast and most importantly
secure. You can make your donation with a credit card, PayPal, or by
sending in a personal check. For complete information, please see the URL
below:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: f.hostettler@gmx.ch
Mike,
The 14 kg (31 lbs) GRS in the baggage compartment should compensate a 6 kg
(13 lbs) battery in the tail (as recommended by ZAC for 701s with a Rotax
912).The battery is installed on the firewall instead and the long power
cable is eliminated. Together with a relatively heavy prop it may work.
Where did you place the battery?
Fredy
**********
>Mike Sinclair wrote:
>One thing I seen that I didn't care for was a BRS located that far
>aft, especially in an extended baggage compartment. You are looking at
>least 30-35 lbs for the system. Looks like a surefire recipe to me for a
>tail heavy aircraft. For what it's worth, I've got my BRS mounted in the
>very forward / center of my baggage compartment and on a worst case weight
>and balance, I am still 2 inches ahead of the aft CG limit.
--
NEU +++ DSL Komplett von GMX +++ http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
GMX DSL-Netzanschluss + Tarif zum supergnstigen Komplett-Preis!
Message 3
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| Subject: | CH801 BRS (was CH701 BRS) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
Anyone thought about mounting locations and strap placement for a BRS in
a CH 801?
Tnx,
Gary Craze
Houston, TX
N801GC (reserved)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Leading Edge Slat |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
"Nothing" is not quite correct. There is a slight difference in drag of a
slat which is fixed a couple inches in front of the leading edge vs one that
is in fact part of the leading edge by being properly stowed.
This was referenced in an earlier post.
"Figure 20a shows a drag
coefficient of 0.03 at moderate angles of attack (flow through the slot) and
a drag coefficient (Cd) of 0.018 at low angles of attack (no flow through
the slot). This latter value compares to a CD of 0.015 for stowed (retracted
slat)."
Thus you do get some, even though it may be small, increase in cruise with
retracted slats. Then add the other parts of the formula, slimmer
semi-symmetrical airfoil, the slats are more pointed than Zac's, they stow
perfectly into the leading edge, the struts are extruded, no jury braces,
air deflectors at strut attach points, larger more aerodynamic flaperon and
you have a significant increase in cruise as well as a lower stall speed
than Zac's due to the larger flaperons.
No one function of the PegaStol wings does the trick, it is a combination of
all of them which makes it a much superior wing than Zac's, cost more too,
but well worth it.
Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hal Rozema" <hartist1@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Leading Edge Slat
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
>
> Howard Carter wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Howard Carter <howado@cwia.com>
> >
> >To Bob Eli and others interested in the slat issues;
> >
> >The Pegastol wing used on the CH701 uses a NACA 2415 airfoil, so this
> >may account for the increased cruise speed of 15 mph, rather than the
> >fact that the slat is retracted at speeds greater than 30 mph. The slat
> >is also different in shape, so it may actually have less drag when
> >retracted. The Pegastol wing has four slats, two on each side, and they
> >are independent of each other.. The flight shown on the Dedalius DVD
> >clearly shows the sections retracting and extending as the aircraft is
> >maneuvered in slow flight. Some other features also contribute to the
> >cruise speed increase, such as streamlined struts, and no jury struts.
> >
> >Howard Carter
> >
> >
> >
> Now your starting to catch on... Red apples are red because they aren't
> oranges. All the other changes are "go fast". The retracting slats add
> nothing in cruise (lowest angle of incidence). The numbers are not for
> equal aircraft ... if they were the cruise speeds would be identical.
>
> Hal
> ThePlaneFolks.Net
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Larry do not under any circumstance try to read anything but idle
mixture with the colourtune...You are at grave risk of having the thing
explode in your face!...Its only spark plug with a glass (quartz?)
window and is not designed to withstand high combustion pressure.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Michel,
I believe the flyweight advance in the Stratus ignition originally used
was lubricated better with grease. Lots found on the wall around the
inside of the distributor. My reluctor gap was checked at .008 and set
with finger pressure on the reluctor toward the pickups with .012 feeler
gage between when tightened. The timing is set 30-degrees at 4500 rpm
using a $23.00 induction timing light from Harbor
Freight. I'm going to order a Colortune plug from Bing Monday to
ascertain the specific mixture from idle to full throttle at the
smallest jet and fuel setting. It allows you to see the color of the
flame during running while adjusting the mixture. At $55, it should be
able to answer the complete EGT question.
Bing's number is 1-800-309-2464
Would like to see dry weather so I can fly these changes soon and
document the results.
Hope this info is useful.
Larry McFarland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> Today, I went back to airport to look at my
> installation some more before doing the conversion. I
> could not replicate the results I got yesterday... to
> the point I'm wondering if I only had such dream. I'm puzzled.
> Today, both Subaru and HEI ignition systems were showing the same
> performance.
>
> Michel
>
Message 6
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|
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=EtYNvbSMBP+Rp2q9X0hAbU+R+/0vTBQw2BuelgNUQ7drENvu2iYstgFCwqmJCW16KVnSNwpMIT/qVB+YluunPDr3v4q6qzQOh0qfWbv26A+uYIwjdoNB//I2lvtT1uyeV+ID69qm5enWU2V7aYvz3EfxBXLUOyD5XiRCWLEFe9U=
;
| Subject: | Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
For caburetor tuning, I'm thinking about using a
wideband afr meter such as:
http://www.sdsefi.com/wmsmm.htm
Michel
--- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank
> George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Larry do not under any circumstance try to read
> anything but idle
> mixture with the colourtune...You are at grave risk
> of having the thing
> explode in your face!...Its only spark plug with a
> glass (quartz?)
> window and is not designed to withstand high
> combustion pressure.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Larry
> McFarland
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and
> ignition performance
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
>
> --> <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Michel,
> I believe the flyweight advance in the Stratus
> ignition originally used
> was lubricated better with grease. Lots found on
> the wall around the
> inside of the distributor. My reluctor gap was
> checked at .008 and set
> with finger pressure on the reluctor toward the
> pickups with .012 feeler
> gage between when tightened. The timing is set
> 30-degrees at 4500 rpm
> using a $23.00 induction timing light from Harbor
> Freight. I'm going to order a Colortune plug from
> Bing Monday to
> ascertain the specific mixture from idle to full
> throttle at the
> smallest jet and fuel setting. It allows you to see
> the color of the
> flame during running while adjusting the mixture. At
> $55, it should be
> able to answer the complete EGT question.
> Bing's number is 1-800-309-2464
>
> Would like to see dry weather so I can fly these
> changes soon and
> document the results.
>
> Hope this info is useful.
>
> Larry McFarland
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and
> ignition performance
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
> <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > Today, I went back to airport to look at my
> > installation some more before doing the
> conversion. I
> > could not replicate the results I got yesterday...
> to
> > the point I'm wondering if I only had such dream.
> I'm puzzled.
> > Today, both Subaru and HEI ignition systems were
> showing the same
> > performance.
> >
> > Michel
> >
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Appreciate the caution, Frank. This morning I ordered a Colortune
plug from Bing and they asked if I'd want the one for high compression
engines.
Probably available because of such events. I requested the high compression
plug and research would suggest that reads up to 4000 are common with other
users (motorcycles mostly). What would preclude ability to check higher
rpm mixture color. Bing is of course comfortable with this.
I run rich at idle and lean at 4000 and beyond, mostly right side.
The high compression plug is $65.00, only a bit more than the other.
Also, was told that colder weather will bring the EGTs up some and mine
would seem to be a reflecton of that.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Larry do not under any circumstance try to read anything but idle
> mixture with the colourtune...You are at grave risk of having the thing
> explode in your face!...Its only spark plug with a glass (quartz?)
> window and is not designed to withstand high combustion pressure.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
> McFarland
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
> --> <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Michel,
> I believe the flyweight advance in the Stratus ignition originally used
> was lubricated better with grease. Lots found on the wall around the
> inside of the distributor. My reluctor gap was checked at .008 and set
> with finger pressure on the reluctor toward the pickups with .012 feeler
> gage between when tightened. The timing is set 30-degrees at 4500 rpm
> using a $23.00 induction timing light from Harbor
> Freight. I'm going to order a Colortune plug from Bing Monday to
> ascertain the specific mixture from idle to full throttle at the
> smallest jet and fuel setting. It allows you to see the color of the
> flame during running while adjusting the mixture. At $55, it should be
> able to answer the complete EGT question.
> Bing's number is 1-800-309-2464
>
> Would like to see dry weather so I can fly these changes soon and
> document the results.
>
> Hope this info is useful.
>
> Larry McFarland
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Hi Larry,
>>
>> Today, I went back to airport to look at my
>> installation some more before doing the conversion. I
>> could not replicate the results I got yesterday... to
>> the point I'm wondering if I only had such dream. I'm puzzled.
>> Today, both Subaru and HEI ignition systems were showing the same
>> performance.
>>
>> Michel
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Leading Edge Slat |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman <stutzman@stutzman.com>
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Larry Martin wrote:
> No one function of the PegaStol wings does the trick, it is a combination of
> all of them which makes it a much superior wing than Zac's, cost more too,
> but well worth it.
I'm not building, but am evaluating. I couldn't give a toot about the
increase in cruise. I do, however, like the idea of decreasing the
already slow stall speed.
How much more does the PegaStol wings cost in comparison to the Zac wings?
Their website doesn't list a price. I sounds like you may know that
number?
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR
Message 9
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| Subject: | Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
At the risk of sounding like a stuck record Larry......Remember checking
a motorcycle engine in Nuetral at 4000rpm is very different to doing a
tie town check at hi rpm on the airplane because the engine is turning
the prop...in other words its making a lot of HP and the cylinder
pressures will be much higher than if you were simply revving the
motorcycle in neutral.
The high compression plug is simply for that ...A high compression motor
running lightly loaded.
The high EGT in colder weather would seem to make sense...denser air may
not necessarily suck proportionally more fuel from the jet...hence
running leaner...Guess that's what mass flow air meters are for on
injected engines.
Regards
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Appreciate the caution, Frank. This morning I ordered a Colortune plug
from Bing and they asked if I'd want the one for high compression
engines.
Probably available because of such events. I requested the high
compression plug and research would suggest that reads up to 4000 are
common with other users (motorcycles mostly). What would preclude
ability to check higher rpm mixture color. Bing is of course
comfortable with this. I run rich at idle and lean at 4000 and beyond,
mostly right side. The high compression plug is $65.00, only a bit more
than the other. Also, was told that colder weather will bring the EGTs
up some and mine would seem to be a reflecton of that.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Larry do not under any circumstance try to read anything but idle
> mixture with the colourtune...You are at grave risk of having the
> thing explode in your face!...Its only spark plug with a glass
> (quartz?) window and is not designed to withstand high combustion
> pressure.
>
> Frank
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
I should have asked if the plug requires the prop be on. Of lately,
I've taken the prop off to do timing and carb adjustments because it
only takes about 10 minutes both ways and I'm personally scared of the
prop. Don't like being anywhere near it when running the engine.
Being close enough for flying, taxi run ups have provided the thrust
check and adjustments on the ground have been more like the motorcycyle.
Does the resistance of the prop have much influence on adjustments in
rejetting, so long as it's incremental and seems headed in the right
direction?
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> At the risk of sounding like a stuck record Larry......Remember checking
> a motorcycle engine in Nuetral at 4000rpm is very different to doing a
> tie town check at hi rpm on the airplane because the engine is turning
> the prop...in other words its making a lot of HP and the cylinder
> pressures will be much higher than if you were simply revving the
> motorcycle in neutral.
>
> The high compression plug is simply for that ...A high compression motor
> running lightly loaded.
>
> The high EGT in colder weather would seem to make sense...denser air may
> not necessarily suck proportionally more fuel from the jet...hence
> running leaner...Guess that's what mass flow air meters are for on
> injected engines.
>
> Regards
>
> Frank
>
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Hello,
I've been reading the list for almost a year. We picked up our 701 Kit at the
factory on November 23. It was raining cats and dogs and on the way back and
the brown wrapping paper that they wrapped the skins in got damp.
I am wondering if it is safe to store the skins for the next 10-12 months wrapped
in this brown paper. Right now they are stacked on top of each other. Would
the moisture cause some type of electrolysis or reaction and possible corrosion?
I probably already know the answer to this, but since I now have a legitimate
question to ask, I'm now asking.
Regards,
Tommy Walker
N701TR (reserved)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Storing skins |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>
>Hello,
>
>I've been reading the list for almost a year. We picked up our 701 Kit at the
factory on November 23. It was raining cats and dogs and on the way back and
the brown wrapping paper that they wrapped the skins in got damp.
>
>I am wondering if it is safe to store the skins for the next 10-12 months wrapped
in this brown paper. Right now they are stacked on top of each other. Would
the moisture cause some type of electrolysis or reaction and possible corrosion?
I probably already know the answer to this, but since I now have a legitimate
question to ask, I'm now asking.
The answer is an unqualified yes. Get the damp paper out of there and treat any
areas that have watermarked or are showing any signs of corrosion starting.
6061 is pretty forgiving but in Houston where I live it corrodes readily if it
stays wet. I was only in the corrosion industry for 32 yrs and others will indoubtly
have other ideas but all my sheets are coated with Corrosion X ,BoShield
or ACF 50 when they are unpacked and recoated every 6 mo or so. Before final
assy they are cleaned with soap and water, RINSED WELL, dried and painted with
a good epoxy corrosion preventative primer as from U S Paint or Jetglo. No
fair just wiping with some solvent coated rag, you just spread the oil around
in ever decreasing amounts, you don't wash your greasy hands that way and it doesn't
work any better on alum. Have fun. John Bolding
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] Lists Pummelled by Cashette.com Debacle... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Listers,
Just a quick note to say that I've caught the great Cashette.Com debacle of
2004 and have tried to clean out all of the pending List email queues of
all the "you are not yet on my Approved List" messages. There were about
117 of them queued when I noticed what was going on.
In a nutshell, this guy signed up for all of the Lists and had a "register
with my site" spam filter enabled on his account. When his account started
receiving List messages, it started sending back, "you need to register"
messages back to the various Lists which in turn went to the Lists which in
turn got sent to the same spam filter which in turn sent back a message
indicating that the List needed to register, and so on and so on until, I
suppose, the Internet just blew up! Sheeze, some of these spam systems are
so brain dead!
Anyway, I've cleaned out all of the messages generated by this thing and
put in a permanent block from this cashette.com website so that this
shouldn't be a problem any longer.
Back to Airplane Discussions! :-)
Matt Dralle
List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 14
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
No rip the wet paper off...You will probably only get a white powdery
splotches where there is surface corrosion but it will be more work to
clean it all off later.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy
Walker
Subject: Zenith-List: Storing skins
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Hello,
I've been reading the list for almost a year. We picked up our 701 Kit
at the factory on November 23. It was raining cats and dogs and on the
way back and the brown wrapping paper that they wrapped the skins in got
damp.
I am wondering if it is safe to store the skins for the next 10-12
months wrapped in this brown paper. Right now they are stacked on top
of each other. Would the moisture cause some type of electrolysis or
reaction and possible corrosion? I probably already know the answer
to this, but since I now have a legitimate question to ask, I'm now
asking.
Regards,
Tommy Walker
N701TR (reserved)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I would say yes....
You are certainly not getting anywhere near full throttle with no
prop...Either that or your engine is turning at about 20,000 rpm!
Remember full throttle means max air flow thru the carb...the velocity
of the air across the jets is what sets the mixture.
If you are pulling a lot of airflow it means a lot of fuel which means a
LOT of power.
That power is either absorbed by the prop or it will accelerate your
engine to rediculously high speeds....Where it won't make any
power...Its "off the cam" so to speak.
That's why to check a motorcycle or car engine mixture using the plug
colour one has to do a "plug chop"...run it up a hill at full throttle
and cut the ignition.
The prop is your own portable dyno.
This maybe why your jet increases did not mirror my experience Larry.
I.e both my main and needle jet went up several sizes.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
I should have asked if the plug requires the prop be on. Of lately,
I've taken the prop off to do timing and carb adjustments because it
only takes about 10 minutes both ways and I'm personally scared of the
prop. Don't like being anywhere near it when running the engine. Being
close enough for flying, taxi run ups have provided the thrust check and
adjustments on the ground have been more like the motorcycyle. Does the
resistance of the prop have much influence on adjustments in rejetting,
so long as it's incremental and seems headed in the right
direction?
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> At the risk of sounding like a stuck record Larry......Remember
> checking a motorcycle engine in Nuetral at 4000rpm is very different
> to doing a tie town check at hi rpm on the airplane because the engine
> is turning the prop...in other words its making a lot of HP and the
> cylinder pressures will be much higher than if you were simply revving
> the motorcycle in neutral.
>
> The high compression plug is simply for that ...A high compression
> motor running lightly loaded.
>
> The high EGT in colder weather would seem to make sense...denser air
> may not necessarily suck proportionally more fuel from the jet...hence
> running leaner...Guess that's what mass flow air meters are for on
> injected engines.
>
> Regards
>
> Frank
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yes you could but a wideband is a bit overkill...My cheapo narrow band
unit seemsd quite accurate.
How will you install the oxygen sensor in the ex pipe?
I welded a bung on each downpipe.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Therrien
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
For caburetor tuning, I'm thinking about using a
wideband afr meter such as:
http://www.sdsefi.com/wmsmm.htm
Michel
--- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank
> George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Larry do not under any circumstance try to read
> anything but idle
> mixture with the colourtune...You are at grave risk
> of having the thing
> explode in your face!...Its only spark plug with a
> glass (quartz?)
> window and is not designed to withstand high
> combustion pressure.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Larry
> McFarland
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and
> ignition performance
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
>
> --> <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Michel,
> I believe the flyweight advance in the Stratus
> ignition originally used
> was lubricated better with grease. Lots found on
> the wall around the
> inside of the distributor. My reluctor gap was
> checked at .008 and set
> with finger pressure on the reluctor toward the
> pickups with .012 feeler
> gage between when tightened. The timing is set
> 30-degrees at 4500 rpm
> using a $23.00 induction timing light from Harbor
> Freight. I'm going to order a Colortune plug from
> Bing Monday to
> ascertain the specific mixture from idle to full
> throttle at the
> smallest jet and fuel setting. It allows you to see
> the color of the
> flame during running while adjusting the mixture. At
> $55, it should be
> able to answer the complete EGT question.
> Bing's number is 1-800-309-2464
>
> Would like to see dry weather so I can fly these
> changes soon and
> document the results.
>
> Hope this info is useful.
>
> Larry McFarland
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and
> ignition performance
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
> <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > Today, I went back to airport to look at my
> > installation some more before doing the
> conversion. I
> > could not replicate the results I got yesterday...
> to
> > the point I'm wondering if I only had such dream.
> I'm puzzled.
> > Today, both Subaru and HEI ignition systems were
> showing the same
> > performance.
> >
> > Michel
> >
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
I'd certainly vote for that. It's what we use for tuning programmable ecus,
almost indispensable. Lots of different brands out there.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Therrien [mailto:mtherr@yahoo.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
For caburetor tuning, I'm thinking about using a
wideband afr meter such as:
http://www.sdsefi.com/wmsmm.htm
Michel
--- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank
> George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Larry do not under any circumstance try to read
> anything but idle
> mixture with the colourtune...You are at grave risk
> of having the thing
> explode in your face!...Its only spark plug with a
> glass (quartz?)
> window and is not designed to withstand high
> combustion pressure.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Larry
> McFarland
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and
> ignition performance
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
>
> --> <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Michel,
> I believe the flyweight advance in the Stratus
> ignition originally used
> was lubricated better with grease. Lots found on
> the wall around the
> inside of the distributor. My reluctor gap was
> checked at .008 and set
> with finger pressure on the reluctor toward the
> pickups with .012 feeler
> gage between when tightened. The timing is set
> 30-degrees at 4500 rpm
> using a $23.00 induction timing light from Harbor
> Freight. I'm going to order a Colortune plug from
> Bing Monday to
> ascertain the specific mixture from idle to full
> throttle at the
> smallest jet and fuel setting. It allows you to see
> the color of the
> flame during running while adjusting the mixture. At
> $55, it should be
> able to answer the complete EGT question.
> Bing's number is 1-800-309-2464
>
> Would like to see dry weather so I can fly these
> changes soon and
> document the results.
>
> Hope this info is useful.
>
> Larry McFarland
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and
> ignition performance
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
> <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > Today, I went back to airport to look at my
> > installation some more before doing the
> conversion. I
> > could not replicate the results I got yesterday...
> to
> > the point I'm wondering if I only had such dream.
> I'm puzzled.
> > Today, both Subaru and HEI ignition systems were
> showing the same
> > performance.
> >
> > Michel
> >
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 18
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|
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=GviMyW1pcE8NqdDfxp6mDnuzalGAkhFXN+NXpLv0UwRuq0i92fUsov8vw23k58mh0ljrNfoct+yuPq59Dm3TXLUo/GWSJGU4JuyqSaPCBZoME8cqZ5PVu8qelQcvCVoi5ARDJIbnFo05dsg7FhBes9ONJWii6bXRbjKX61zK8QY=
;
| Subject: | RE: Storing skins |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Tommy,
Yep, you will need to unwrap and dry. Not to big
of a problem for the packaging that only holds one
skin, but, for instance, the rear fuselage side skins
are packaged together, and they will begin with
galvanic corrosion almost immediately. -Before
someone gets on a soapbox about 6061 and silicon, this
is from experience. I got my fuselage kit less than
two months ago, the very day that the southern
California drought ended. The box got some water in
it, but not much. All of the parts I have unwrapped
have been fine (no corrosion) except for the side
skins, They had widespread minor surface corrosion.
Not a big deal, but if they sat for months ???
Respectfully,
Brandon
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jeffglass@starband.net>
Just an add-on to the "plug chop". Run it at full power under load. Then
Kill the ignition at top load (RPM) so the plug is at its maximum reading.
If you let the engine idle down you don't get a proper plug reading.
Jeff Glasserow
601 wannabe and very real classic MC racer, H-D KR flatheads and Indian
Scouts with 3 LSR's to boot..
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> I would say yes....
>
> You are certainly not getting anywhere near full throttle with no
> prop...Either that or your engine is turning at about 20,000 rpm!
>
> Remember full throttle means max air flow thru the carb...the velocity
> of the air across the jets is what sets the mixture.
>
> If you are pulling a lot of airflow it means a lot of fuel which means a
> LOT of power.
>
> That power is either absorbed by the prop or it will accelerate your
> engine to rediculously high speeds....Where it won't make any
> power...Its "off the cam" so to speak.
>
> That's why to check a motorcycle or car engine mixture using the plug
> colour one has to do a "plug chop"...run it up a hill at full throttle
> and cut the ignition.
>
> The prop is your own portable dyno.
>
> This maybe why your jet increases did not mirror my experience Larry.
>
> I.e both my main and needle jet went up several sizes.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
> McFarland
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
> --> <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> I should have asked if the plug requires the prop be on. Of lately,
> I've taken the prop off to do timing and carb adjustments because it
> only takes about 10 minutes both ways and I'm personally scared of the
> prop. Don't like being anywhere near it when running the engine. Being
> close enough for flying, taxi run ups have provided the thrust check and
> adjustments on the ground have been more like the motorcycyle. Does the
> resistance of the prop have much influence on adjustments in rejetting,
> so long as it's incremental and seems headed in the right
> direction?
>
> Larry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>
>> At the risk of sounding like a stuck record Larry......Remember
>> checking a motorcycle engine in Nuetral at 4000rpm is very different
>> to doing a tie town check at hi rpm on the airplane because the engine
>
>> is turning the prop...in other words its making a lot of HP and the
>> cylinder pressures will be much higher than if you were simply revving
>
>> the motorcycle in neutral.
>>
>> The high compression plug is simply for that ...A high compression
>> motor running lightly loaded.
>>
>> The high EGT in colder weather would seem to make sense...denser air
>> may not necessarily suck proportionally more fuel from the jet...hence
>
>> running leaner...Guess that's what mass flow air meters are for on
>> injected engines.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Frank
>>
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | alternate engines CH701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Alternate engines for the 701???
We have started a page just for that purpose at www.CH701.com thanks to Winston Ellis who has installed a Geo Metro with Raven redrive... check out his pictures under 'Alternate Engines' . I need to collect up all the previous pictures (thanks Larry M.) on this subject and post them together on this page.
BTW, the new front page picture for this website was submitted by Dave Smith...
this could be a picture post card for 701 marketing! What do you think?!
As always, send in your pictures, they'll eventually make it on!
colder in Green Bay, WI,
Jon
moderator@CH701.com
Message 21
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
Fredy
I installed my battery as the last major piece during weight and balance and
ended up locating in on the floor just ahead of the passenger seat. I don't
think that we can compare all of this between our two planes though since I
have the taildragger vs. your trike. I eliminated the nose gear and added a
tailwheel, then moved the main gear forward besides. Where my real concern is,
is the original published baggage compartment capacity of 50 lbs. I would
suspect that the baggage capacity was calculated into the CG during design of
the aircraft, and though it now has a larger compartment, the gain would not be
the ability to carry more weight, but the ability to carry larger lightweight
items. In my case with the BRS and the ELT both located in my baggage
compartment I figure that leaves me approximately 10 lbs. of capacity left
over. Basically I have a lot of unusable space when you get right down to it.
When you add the weight of the BRS I would think that you would want to get it
as close to the CG as possible and then you can use your battery as ballast to
get the CG within limits. I do know that from years of model airplane building
that it is much easier to cure a nose heavy airplane than to get a tail heavy
airplane back into CG limits. And the weight penalty for tail heavy can get
quite severe. Therefore I believe that an optional piece of equipment
(especially a fairly heavy piece such as the BRS) should be located as far
forward (and close to CG) as possible. I hope this doesn't come off as too
negative, and I would really be interested in how your weight and balance comes
out. Especially if I should be way off base on the aft location of your GRS. I
would also be interested in replies from any others that may have installed a
recovery system in their aircraft as to location installed and as to whether it
has caused any special ballast considerations to achieve design CG limits. It
could help others determine recovery system location if they chose to go this
route. I can say that the addition of a BRS on my airplane was never an option
for me, and that was part of why I wanted to get rid of that heavier nose wheel
to compensate somewhat for the additional weight. I believe it helped a little
as my empty weight came in at 635 lbs.
Mike Sinclair
f.hostettler@gmx.ch wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: f.hostettler@gmx.ch
>
> Mike,
> The 14 kg (31 lbs) GRS in the baggage compartment should compensate a 6 kg
> (13 lbs) battery in the tail (as recommended by ZAC for 701s with a Rotax
> 912).The battery is installed on the firewall instead and the long power
> cable is eliminated. Together with a relatively heavy prop it may work.
> Where did you place the battery?
>
> Fredy
>
> **********
> >Mike Sinclair wrote:
> >One thing I seen that I didn't care for was a BRS located that far
> >aft, especially in an extended baggage compartment. You are looking at
> >least 30-35 lbs for the system. Looks like a surefire recipe to me for a
> >tail heavy aircraft. For what it's worth, I've got my BRS mounted in the
> >very forward / center of my baggage compartment and on a worst case weight
> >and balance, I am still 2 inches ahead of the aft CG limit.
>
> --
>
> NEU +++ DSL Komplett von GMX +++ http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
> GMX DSL-Netzanschluss + Tarif zum supergnstigen Komplett-Preis!
>
Message 22
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;
| Subject: | Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
that's what I was thinking about (but at this price,
I'd use only one!)
Michel
do not archive
--- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank
>
> How will you install the oxygen sensor in the ex
> pipe?
>
> I welded a bung on each downpipe.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
The sensors themselves aren't that expensive, maybe $90. It's the
electronics, which could switch between two sensors.
Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
bill@flyinmiata.com
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
970-242-3800 (tech support)
http://flyinmiata.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Therrien [mailto:mtherr@yahoo.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
that's what I was thinking about (but at this price,
I'd use only one!)
Michel
do not archive
--- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank
>
> How will you install the oxygen sensor in the ex
> pipe?
>
> I welded a bung on each downpipe.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 24
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| Subject: | Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
The narrow band unit...Summit racing is $30 and the universal sensor is
also $30 approx. The bushings which are welded on the pipe I got from an
exhaust speed shop garage for $6 each.
If you are setting up a twin carb you want just one in the
downpipe...set the carb and remove the sensor and repeat.
You really don't need to leave it in there as blanking plugs are readily
available (mine were free). Besides, eventually you'll have to fill up
with 100LL which doesn't do the O2 sensors much good.
I found this setup accurate enough for setting the carbs.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Cardell
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
The sensors themselves aren't that expensive, maybe $90. It's the
electronics, which could switch between two sensors.
Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
bill@flyinmiata.com
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
970-242-3800 (tech support)
http://flyinmiata.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Therrien [mailto:mtherr@yahoo.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Subaru ICM failure? and ignition performance
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
that's what I was thinking about (but at this price,
I'd use only one!)
Michel
do not archive
--- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank
>
> How will you install the oxygen sensor in the ex
> pipe?
>
> I welded a bung on each downpipe.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 25
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Howard Carter <howado@cwia.com>
Frank Stutzman and others,
the Pegastol wing kit costs $7680, including crating, slat jig, and
2-tank fuel system.
the CH701 wing costs $4980, including crating, and 2-tank fuel system.
I got these quotes from Dedalius last week, and from the ZAC Stol
Series binder.
We are comparing apples and oranges here; these wings are not equal in
many respects.
Howard Carter
Message 26
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
I am at the point of installing brake lines on the XL and I know we have discussed
gun drilling but I am too late for that. If gun drilling is ok why can't I
drill and tap several 8/32" holes for tubing clamps along the underside of the
gear? Anybody done this yet? I saw that Zac just used glue on clamps which I
would rather not use. Thanks as always. Jack in Clovis CA
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Leading Edge Slat |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Frank and all (701 builders),
Please give the chance to give one advise (but do what you want:-)
Just one advise to all the 701 builders... FIRST fly the plane!
We have only about 15 hrs with our 701, (week ends are short!)
You just can't imagine all the "Caution Advises" we had from seasoned
expert pilots in our Club...
"That stall speed is too dangerous, the plane will "splat" to the floor
if the power fails on take off". "Will land dangerously, hanging from
the propeller"... Just imagine all the "experts" that had never flown
a 701 could say sitting in the clubs chairs, in front of a tequila or a
Corona beer...
Well, now that we are finaly flying the plane and they have looked how
it handles and heared the test pilot comments, with a grin in his face,
they just want to try it.
The 701 is a GREAT plane as is! Please Believe me (been there done
that and satisfied as ever in my 12 years of flying ultralights).
The best plane for the buck, if you want two planes in one: Land and
take off as an ultralight, be able to cruise as a 2 seater light plane
(J3 and Aeronca type) with nore than 4 hours endurance (with Rotax 912S
100 hp) of inexpensive automobile gasoline, and also to be able to take
off and land in every grass strip even in "regular" mantainance shape.
This is the plane for you.
Once you learn to land it (very easy) you will not need any other wing,
I will rather spend the extra bucks in gasoline and hotels when
XCountring...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Guadalajara, Jalisco Mexico.
(I know I promised to post the photos of the first flights and our
first Xcountry/fly in to Guayabitos, near Puerto Vallarta, will do this
week)
Having LOTS of FUN!
--- Frank Stutzman <stutzman@stutzman.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman
> <stutzman@stutzman.com>
>
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Larry Martin wrote:
>
> > No one function of the PegaStol wings does the trick, it is a
> combination of
> > all of them which makes it a much superior wing than Zac's, cost
> more too,
> > but well worth it.
>
> I'm not building, but am evaluating. I couldn't give a toot about
> the
> increase in cruise. I do, however, like the idea of decreasing the
> already slow stall speed.
>
> How much more does the PegaStol wings cost in comparison to the Zac
> wings?
> Their website doesn't list a price. I sounds like you may know that
> number?
>
> Frank Stutzman
> Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
> Hood River, OR
>
>
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 28
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 11/29/04 7:58 PM, Jack Russell at clojan@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I am at the point of installing brake lines on the XL and I know we have
> discussed gun drilling but I am too late for that. If gun drilling is ok why
> can't I drill and tap several 8/32" holes for tubing clamps along the
> underside of the gear? Anybody done this yet? I saw that Zac just used glue on
> clamps which I would rather not use. Thanks as always. Jack in Clovis CA
>
I drilled and tapped a few holes in the trailing edge of the gear to clamp
the tubes. The stresses in this area should be minimal.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In Phase I testing.
do not archive.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Leading Edge Slat |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@cox.net>
thanks gary, you just made my choice for the 701 the right one...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Leading Edge Slat
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
> Frank and all (701 builders),
>
> Please give the chance to give one advise (but do what you want:-)
>
> Just one advise to all the 701 builders... FIRST fly the plane!
>
> We have only about 15 hrs with our 701, (week ends are short!)
>
> You just can't imagine all the "Caution Advises" we had from seasoned
> expert pilots in our Club...
>
> "That stall speed is too dangerous, the plane will "splat" to the floor
> if the power fails on take off". "Will land dangerously, hanging from
> the propeller"... Just imagine all the "experts" that had never flown
> a 701 could say sitting in the clubs chairs, in front of a tequila or a
> Corona beer...
>
> Well, now that we are finaly flying the plane and they have looked how
> it handles and heared the test pilot comments, with a grin in his face,
> they just want to try it.
>
> The 701 is a GREAT plane as is! Please Believe me (been there done
> that and satisfied as ever in my 12 years of flying ultralights).
>
> The best plane for the buck, if you want two planes in one: Land and
> take off as an ultralight, be able to cruise as a 2 seater light plane
> (J3 and Aeronca type) with nore than 4 hours endurance (with Rotax 912S
> 100 hp) of inexpensive automobile gasoline, and also to be able to take
> off and land in every grass strip even in "regular" mantainance shape.
> This is the plane for you.
>
> Once you learn to land it (very easy) you will not need any other wing,
> I will rather spend the extra bucks in gasoline and hotels when
> XCountring...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
> Guadalajara, Jalisco Mexico.
> (I know I promised to post the photos of the first flights and our
> first Xcountry/fly in to Guayabitos, near Puerto Vallarta, will do this
> week)
> Having LOTS of FUN!
>
>
> --- Frank Stutzman <stutzman@stutzman.com> wrote:
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman
>> <stutzman@stutzman.com>
>>
>> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Larry Martin wrote:
>>
>> > No one function of the PegaStol wings does the trick, it is a
>> combination of
>> > all of them which makes it a much superior wing than Zac's, cost
>> more too,
>> > but well worth it.
>>
>> I'm not building, but am evaluating. I couldn't give a toot about
>> the
>> increase in cruise. I do, however, like the idea of decreasing the
>> already slow stall speed.
>>
>> How much more does the PegaStol wings cost in comparison to the Zac
>> wings?
>> Their website doesn't list a price. I sounds like you may know that
>> number?
>>
>> Frank Stutzman
>> Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
>> Hood River, OR
>>
>>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "rical26" <rical26@rogers.com>
Hi, I have to change the bungee on my main gear (601). My question is what is the
best way to do it? I didn't build the plane, so what is the best way to lift
off main gear off the ground to do the work!!!
Sorry for my dumb question!!!
regards
Richard
Message 31
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " <brett@hog-air.com>
That is what I did. It works fine.
> I am at the point of installing brake lines on the XL and I know we
have discussed gun drilling but I am too late for that. If gun
drilling is ok why can't I drill and tap several 8/32" holes for
tubing clamps along the underside of the gear? Anybody done this yet?
I saw that Zac just used glue on clamps which I would rather not use.
Thanks as always. Jack in Clovis CA
Thanks
Brett Ray
www.hog-air.com
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Leading Edge Slat |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
The prices have gone up since I bought mine. I guess it's supply and
demand, I paid $7000 in September 2003. They are now about $8500 with extra
tanks. Same setup will cost about $7000 from Zac. But, you get what you
pay for. If you are into "slow" Zac wings will do fine. I wanted slow and
better cruise. Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Stutzman" <stutzman@stutzman.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Leading Edge Slat
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman <stutzman@stutzman.com>
>
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Larry Martin wrote:
>
> > No one function of the PegaStol wings does the trick, it is a
combination of
> > all of them which makes it a much superior wing than Zac's, cost more
too,
> > but well worth it.
>
> I'm not building, but am evaluating. I couldn't give a toot about the
> increase in cruise. I do, however, like the idea of decreasing the
> already slow stall speed.
>
> How much more does the PegaStol wings cost in comparison to the Zac wings?
> Their website doesn't list a price. I sounds like you may know that
> number?
>
> Frank Stutzman
> Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
> Hood River, OR
>
>
Message 33
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
You need to re-check your Zac prices, Wings = $3740, Flaperons&Slats $1470, Fuel
System/one set of tanks = $995, Auxiliary tanks = $995, Total
cost of Zenith CH701 wings with extra tanks is $7200. $7680 is correct
for PegaStol wings plus shipping which can be as much a $500 to the USA
depending on State. But, there is no comparison other than both are called
wings. Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Carter" <howado@cwia.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Costs
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Howard Carter <howado@cwia.com>
>
> Frank Stutzman and others,
>
> the Pegastol wing kit costs $7680, including crating, slat jig, and
> 2-tank fuel system.
>
> the CH701 wing costs $4980, including crating, and 2-tank fuel system.
>
> I got these quotes from Dedalius last week, and from the ZAC Stol
> Series binder.
>
> We are comparing apples and oranges here; these wings are not equal in
> many respects.
>
> Howard Carter
>
>
Message 34
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
My computer with all my pictures on it is temporarily dead. I'm limping
with a laptop. I have good pictures of the way I did it and it really looks
nice. I used soft 1/2" aluminum tubing I bought from www.mcmasters.com. I
bent the tubing the same shape as the landing gear, polished it, clamped it
at both ends, one end using a longer axle flange bolt and the other to the
fuselage bracket. I ran my poly brake tubing inside the aluminum tubing. I
also ran a electrical wire thru it for my wheel pants landing lights. It
made for a clean professional look. I will post some pictures as soon as I
can get my hard drive back or I will take some more. Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Russell" <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: brake lines
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I am at the point of installing brake lines on the XL and I know we have
discussed gun drilling but I am too late for that. If gun drilling is ok why
can't I drill and tap several 8/32" holes for tubing clamps along the
underside of the gear? Anybody done this yet? I saw that Zac just used glue
on clamps which I would rather not use. Thanks as always. Jack in Clovis CA
>
>
Message 35
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;
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Brett,
I got a look at a Grove set up last weekend that
did not have the gun drilled brakes lines, but instead
had a groove machined into the trailing edge of the
gear. It looks like it could be routered if care is
taken. The brake line was run in the groove, and made
for a very clean installation. I may do the same to
my homemade gear.
-Just one more option. Drilling and tapping
would be much easier.
Respectfully,
Brandon
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 36
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
This is what I did; I used my router with a Mill bit and made several
passes along the rear Edge of the landing gear. I have fitted plastic
brake lines which are recessed into the landing gear and they look
Marvelous baby!!!
Mark Townsend
Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L
Osprey 2 serial # 751
www.ch601.org
www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brandon
Tucker
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Brake lines
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Brett,
I got a look at a Grove set up last weekend that
did not have the gun drilled brakes lines, but instead
had a groove machined into the trailing edge of the
gear. It looks like it could be routered if care is
taken. The brake line was run in the groove, and made
for a very clean installation. I may do the same to
my homemade gear.
-Just one more option. Drilling and tapping
would be much easier.
Respectfully,
Brandon
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 37
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "j.breit" <j.breit@comcast.net>
You have to make something that will compress the main gear. I used some
chunks of 2x4's, threaded rods and nuts.
----- Original Message -----
From: "rical26" <rical26@rogers.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Help!!!!
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "rical26" <rical26@rogers.com>
>
> Hi, I have to change the bungee on my main gear (601). My question is what
> is the best way to do it? I didn't build the plane, so what is the best
> way to lift off main gear off the ground to do the work!!!
> Sorry for my dumb question!!!
> regards
> Richard
>
>
>
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