Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:08 AM - Avex 1604-0412 (nick pace)
2. 05:42 AM - Re: Avex 1604-0412 (Zed Smith)
3. 06:02 AM - Subject: XL trim authority with full flap (Grant Corriveau)
4. 06:04 AM - Re: Avex 1604-0412 (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
5. 06:13 AM - Avex 1604-0412 (Robert Schoenberger)
6. 06:26 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem (Thilo Kind)
7. 07:06 AM - Re: XL trim authority with full flap (HeatonHE@aol.com)
8. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: XL trim authority with full flap (Bryan Martin)
10. 10:00 AM - 601XL New Fuel Valve Control Problem (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
11. 10:45 AM - Re: Avex 1604-0412 (kevinbonds@comcast.net)
12. 10:55 AM - Re: 601XL New Fuel Valve Control Problem (Bryan Martin)
13. 11:12 AM - Re: Avex 1604-0412 from China?? (Carlos Sa)
14. 11:42 AM - Re: Avex 1604-0412 from China?? (kevinbonds@comcast.net)
15. 11:44 AM - Re: Avex 1604-0412 from China?? (kevinbonds@comcast.net)
16. 12:36 PM - Re: 601XL New Fuel Valve Control Problem (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
17. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: XL trim authority with full flap (Dave Kubassek)
18. 01:12 PM - Re: Avex 1604-0412 (Trevor Page)
19. 02:33 PM - Re: 601XL New Fuel Valve Control Problem (Johann G.)
20. 04:43 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem (Tim & Diane Shankland)
21. 04:47 PM - Re: Re: XL trim authority with full flap (wizard-24@juno.com)
22. 05:00 PM - Corvair Project/1965 110 hp Engine for sale in Chicago (Daniel Vandenberg)
23. 05:08 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
24. 08:06 PM - Re: Wing trailing edge (Walt Cannon)
25. 09:12 PM - Re: Avex 1604-0412 (kevinbonds@comcast.net)
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: nick pace <asknickp@yahoo.com>
I am using Avex 1604-0412 from Airparts Inc. and I
believe they are made in America. I read that the
quality control is not as good and they are not
recomended for aircraft use.Has or is anyone else
using these rivets and does anyone have any thoughts
on this subject? I would like to thank the list for
any consideration.
=====
A Fellow Aviator
Nick Pace
Harpers Ferry WV
Building a 601XL #5607
Corvair Powered
{just started}
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Avex 1604-0412 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
I am using Avex 1604-0412 from Airparts Inc. and I
believe they are made in America. I read that the
quality control is not as good and they are not
recomended for aircraft use.Has or is anyone else
using these rivets and does anyone have any thoughts
on this subject? I would like to thank the list for
any consideration.
Nick Pace
Nick,
It is my understanding that ZAC uses only the Avex manufactured in Great Britain/England/Scotland/Wales/etc,
because of quality control issues.
This subject has previously been beaten to death by many, however it escapes me
at the moment what the outcome was.
Possibly somebody will pop up with a definitive answer. In the meantime it might
be prudent to use non-ZAC rivets only for trim and decoration, not on structrual
items.
Somebody jump in here.....
Zed/701/R912/same old 90%/Merry Christmas/do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | XL trim authority with full flap |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: XL trim authority with full flap
> The pressure required to keep on the glide path is not great but most aircraft
> I have flown can be trimmed on the approach with full flap.
> The PFA who issue (hopefully!) my permit to fly feel this is not as it should
> be.
That makes more sense. The aircraft should be trimmable on approach down to
1.3 Vs... assuming 'normal' c of g etc.. of course... Here's a little
exercise to try, if you haven't already - please excuse me if I'm telling
you stuff you've already tried:
With the trim set full nose-up, what speed does the aircraft settle onto if
left alone in a gliding descent? How does that 'in trim' speed compare with
the stall speed plus 30% (i.e. 1.3 Vs which is the minimum approach speed
you should want to use.) BTW -- how accurate is your ASI at approach speed?
Have you checked this out yet?
At the other end... if the aircraft is trimmed for max. 'safe' fwd speed, is
there still any forward trim movement left? You may want to try setting up
a 'high speed cruise/descent' condition such as you might use at the end of
a long crosscountry flight and then trim it. I.e. start up high, gently
dive the aircraft to some safe/comfortable max. speed below red line...
(150mph? assuming 160 redline ... or maybe even less. At 150 my HDS is
diving too steeply to ever want to use this for a 'steady state' descent
condition! The max trim speed on my aircraft is probably about 140? or
so...).
Now, is there still fwd trim available? This is not desirable -- (i.e. you
wouldn't ever want to use this much forward trim)... If there is some fwd
trim left, then before the next flight try changing the neutral point on the
trim motor/tab attachemt, to give a touch more towards ANU (airplane nose
up) trim. Your current trim tab travels seem to be in the right ball park,
but ultimately it's the flight tests that tell you if the setting needs to
be tweeked. Perhaps just a degree or so is all you'll need.
I don't know how the XL is, but on my HDS, the trim tab was initially too
powerful. I could trim down to stall speed at one end and above max. flight
speed at the other! Also any touch of the trim button would produce so much
change that it was hard to get it trimmed out to the proper setting. I
ended up cutting down the trim chord to almost half it's original size
(there are other 'electronic' and 'mechanical' means of dealing with this.
But seeing as my aircraft has an 'non-faired' trailing edge trim tab, this
was the easiest. Your situation is probably different.)
So, altogether, to fine-tune the trim system, it should be just powerful
enough to give 'in trim' from 1.3 Vs on approach/glide up to Vne - 5 or 10.
Don't hesitate to check with the Zenair guys at the factory to see what the
trim travel limits they use/recommend; check your c of g of course; what
size trim tab do you have vs. the original design. What do other XLs have?
fwiw
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Avex 1604-0412 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
I am using Avex rivets from Textron in Canada. Their price is very good and
when I told the girl on the phone what I wanted and the quantity, she said,
"Hmmm...you must be building a Zodiac." Does that tell you something?
As far as quality control, the only thing I have noticed is every once in a
while, I find a rivet mandrel with no aluminum sleeve. I have gone through
several thousand rivets...and have found, perhaps, a dozen like this. I don't
know if this is the quality control problem that people refer to or not. If it
is, it seems like a minor issue.
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Try the archives for extensive former discussion of these rivets. Robert Schoenberger
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi Frank and all,
I have the setup you described: Zodiac CH 601 HDS with L/E tanks, a Faucet
pump in each bay (which I also use as tank selectors), and the Rotax 912
pump in series.
During flight operations I always run one Faucet pump and the engine pump. I
also have a fuel pressure sensor downstream of the engine driven pump. For
test purposes I have switched off the Faucet pumps (yes, I'm fully aware of
the purpose of vapor lock in this case - we fully agree on this subject.
However, this was done just for test purposes). The interesting observation
was, that the fuel presssure doesn't change at all. So, I assume, it doesn't
matter from the perspective of over-pressuring the Bing whether or not the
engine driven pump is installed.
Happy flying
Thilo Kind
currently in Taiwan, where no general aviation exists :-(
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> My applogies but I did not see the engine was a Jab. The Rotax and the
> Stratus use the same bing carb which can be a problem when you have two
> pumps in series (low wing pump and the engine pump) because the pressure
> can overcome the float needle. So to junk the engine driven pump on a
> Rotax is perfectly OK...becuse it has Bing carbs.
>
> The problem with an engine driven pump is that it is prone to heating
> and if it is used on a low wing plane with auto fuel with no low point
> pump it is a prime candidate for vapour lock.
>
> If your engine has some other form of fuel metering that is fuel
> pressure dependant (MOST carbs do not care what the pressure is as long
> as it does not overcome the float needle) then of course you need some
> way to accuratly deliver that pressure.
>
> My point was intended to demonstrate that a engine driven pump only is a
> poor way to do it.
>
> Frank
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Small
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>
>
> Never, never, never junk the mechanical pump on a Jabiru!!!! The info
> below came from someone who has little knowledge of Jabiru engines, in
> fact he thinks they're tested below sea level. The spring in the Jabiru
> mechanical pump is customized for the engine. You can pump through it
> if it fails, just ask USJabiru or Andy at SunCoast. A Jab is not like a
> Subaru/Stratus, which does not come with a fuel pump. I'll resist the
> urge to say more but add that the US factory distributors know more
> about their products than do the various opinions on an e-mail builders
> list. Ask the people who know.
>
> regards jeff
>
> >Junk the engine driven pump, that just encourages vapour lock and
> over
> >pressurises the carbs.....This is what I have been flying with for
> 350
> >hours now.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: XL trim authority with full flap |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: HeatonHE@aol.com
>At first my 601 XL wouldn't trim out even with no flaps. The >first thing I
>did was to duct tape an extension on the trim tab to see >what it would take
>to trim it out. With the tab nearly doubled in size it would >trim out but it
>still took most of the trim travel.
I have noticed that some aircraft, Pulsar for instance, use the bungee system for
elevator trim. Would this be a viable option for the 601XL? I think the elevator
would have to be balanced for this to work.
Herb Heaton
601XL Plans Built
Turbo EA-81
Rudder finished
Stab started
Do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Duh...Are you sure there isn't a hole in your diaphram there
Thilo?....:)
Interesting, the pump must have some kind of pressure relief/regulator
built in?
Hmm...Still you would never want to use the engine pump alone because it
will now be sucking both uphill (with a hot pump) and through a dead
Facet pump which will have some forward flow pressure drop...Never
measured it though. So it still seems redundant on a Rotax, at least
with low wing tanks.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thilo Kind
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi Frank and all,
I have the setup you described: Zodiac CH 601 HDS with L/E tanks, a
Faucet pump in each bay (which I also use as tank selectors), and the
Rotax 912 pump in series. During flight operations I always run one
Faucet pump and the engine pump. I also have a fuel pressure sensor
downstream of the engine driven pump. For test purposes I have switched
off the Faucet pumps (yes, I'm fully aware of the purpose of vapor lock
in this case - we fully agree on this subject. However, this was done
just for test purposes). The interesting observation was, that the fuel
presssure doesn't change at all. So, I assume, it doesn't matter from
the perspective of over-pressuring the Bing whether or not the engine
driven pump is installed.
Happy flying
Thilo Kind
currently in Taiwan, where no general aviation exists :-(
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: XL trim authority with full flap |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 12/7/04 10:05 AM, HeatonHE@aol.com at HeatonHE@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: HeatonHE@aol.com
>
>> At first my 601 XL wouldn't trim out even with no flaps. The >first thing I
>> did was to duct tape an extension on the trim tab to see >what it would take
>> to trim it out. With the tab nearly doubled in size it would >trim out but it
>> still took most of the trim travel.
>
> I have noticed that some aircraft, Pulsar for instance, use the bungee system
> for elevator trim. Would this be a viable option for the 601XL? I think the
> elevator would have to be balanced for this to work.
>
Now there's an Idea. Put a bungee in the system to give some nose up trim
force and use the trim tab to get the rest. I might not have to add surface
area to the tab and it would tend to limit the nose down trim available.
Right now I think I can trim out to well above Vne. I could set it up so the
spring force trims the plane out in normal cruise and fly with the trim tab
near neutral like I'm used to doing in a Cessna. I just have to figure out
the best place to put the bungee.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In Phase I testing.
Message 10
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| Subject: | 601XL New Fuel Valve Control Problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Hello Thread, Well I appreciate all the fine advise I have received in the
last couple days on this issue. So I trekked the 60 miles up to Spruce
yesterday and purchased a fine valve. It is an FS20X4 Andair made in England and
pretty as can be. Nice, clean workmanship. Only problem is none of the fitting
I have will screw into or on to the male and female ports. What have I got ?
This thing is growing into a whole new project and all I want to do is spray a
little more paint and go flying ! I e-mailed the Andair folks over the pond
after getting nothing from their web site. Who out there knows what kind of
fittings these are and who might sell them. thanks, Bill of Georgia
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Avex 1604-0412 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
Nick
Good news and Bad news. The plant in NJ closed years ago, so those so called bad
rivets are probably long gone. Bad news is, as of last Oct. the 1604-0412's
are being produced in China. Check the archives for the complete history on this.
I believe I sent an email about this back in the spring. I got this info from
two different sales people in Canada where I ordered my rivets.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: nick pace
>
> I am using Avex 1604-0412 from Airparts Inc. and I
> believe they are made in America. I read that the
> quality control is not as good and they are not
> recomended for aircraft use.Has or is anyone else
> using these rivets and does anyone have any thoughts
> on this subject? I would like to thank the list for
> any consideration.
>
> =====
> A Fellow Aviator
> Nick Pace
> Harpers Ferry WV
> Building a 601XL #5607
> Corvair Powered
> {just started}
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Nick
Good news and Bad news. The plant in NJ closed years ago, so those so called bad
rivets are probably long gone. Bad news is, as of last Oct. the 1604-0412's
are being produced in China. Check the archives for the complete history on this.
I believe I sent an email about this back in the spring. I got this info fromtwo
differentsalespeople in Canada where I ordered my rivets.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: nick pace <ASKNICKP@YAHOO.COM>
I am using Avex 1604-0412 from Airparts Inc. and I
believe they are made in America. I read that the
quality control is not as good and they are not
recomended for aircraft use.Has or is anyone else
using these rivets and does anyone have any thoughts
on this subject? I would like to thank the list for
any consideration.
=====
A Fellow Aviator
Nick Pace
Harpers Ferry WV
Building a 601XL #5607
Corvair Powered
{just started}
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
=========================================
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL New Fuel Valve Control Problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 12/7/04 12:59 PM, JAPhillipsGA@aol.com at JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
> It is an FS20X4 Andair made in England and
> pretty as can be. Nice, clean workmanship. Only problem is none of the
> fitting
> I have will screw into or on to the male and female ports. What have I got ?
According to the AS&S catalog, the female ports should be standard 1/4"
tapered pipe thread and the male ports should be 9/16-18 for standard AN
3/8" tube fittings (-6D) for 37 degree flared tubing. You would use an AN
818-6D nut with an AN819-6D sleeve on a 37 degree flared tube. These type
fittings are also used in industrial applications. The typical 45 degree
hardware store fittings won't fit. You might be able to find fittings or
adapters at an industrial supply store, Aircraft Spruce also has them.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In Phase I testing.
do not archive.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Avex 1604-0412 from China?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Kevin, would you mind elaborating on the China news?
Does this mean that if I order my rivets from Textron in Toronto I'll get rivets
produced in
China?
I searched the archives and found nothing regarding this... (kevin & rivet & china,
1604-0412 &
china)
Carlos
do not archive
--- kevinbonds@comcast.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
> Bad news is, as of last Oct. the 1604-0412's are being produced in China.
> Check the archives for the complete history on this. I believe I sent an email
about this back
> in the spring. I got this info from two different sales people in Canada where
I ordered my
> rivets.
>
> Kevin Bonds
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Avex 1604-0412 from China?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
Carlos
Sorry to say it is my understanding that Yes they will. To be clear not all of
the rivets they produce are to be made in China, but as luck would have it ours
are and this is the only place they will be made as I understand it. Someone
else may want to chick on this, but be sure you are asking about the 1604-0412
rivets. The guy I spoke to seemed to know what he was talking about. I explained
that i was building a experimental aircraft and that he designer had specified
the use of English made avex rivets. He asked which avex rivets. when I
told him 1604-0412 and -0514's he said those particular ones used to be made in
the UK yes, but that plant had shut down a few months before as they were presently
moving its production to China. I asked, "so those particular rivets will
be made in China?" and he said "Yes, once the plant opens in October." (remember
this was in the spring). Incidently this was during Sun-n-Fun that I had
this conversation (I was home) so I called a buddy
of mine who was there to see if he would corner CH about this but he didn't get
the chance.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville Tn
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
>
> Kevin, would you mind elaborating on the China news?
Carlos
Sorry to say it is my understanding that Yes they will. To be clear not all of
the rivets they produce are to be made in China, but as luck would have it ours
are and this is the only place they will be made as I understand it. Someone
else may want to chick on this, but be sure you are asking about the 1604-0412
rivets. The guy I spoke to seemed to know what he was talking about. I explained
thati was building a experimental aircraft and that he designer had specified
the use of English made avex rivets. He asked which avex rivets. when I told
him 1604-0412 and -0514's he said those particular ones used to be made in
the UK yes, but that plant had shut down a few months before as they were presently
moving its production to China. I asked, "so those particular rivets will
be made in China?" and he said "Yes, once the plant opens in October." (remember
this was in the spring). Incidently this was during Sun-n-Fun that I had
this conversation (I was home) so I calle
d a buddy of mine who was there to see if he would corner CH about this but he
didn't get the chance.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville Tn
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <CARLOSFSA@YAHOO.COM>
Kevin, would you mind elaborating on the China news?
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Avex 1604-0412 from China?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
Carlos
I think I had planned on researching this more before I mentioned this and caused
a panic so I may not have ever sent an Email about it. Sorry all. I ment well.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
>
> Kevin, would you mind elaborating on the China news?
> Does this mean that if I order my rivets from Textron in Toronto I'll get rivets
> produced in
> China?
>
> I searched the archives and found nothing regarding this... (kevin & rivet &
> china, 1604-0412 &
> china)
>
> Carlos
> do not archive
>
> --- kevinbonds@comcast.net wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
> > Bad news is, as of last Oct. the 1604-0412's are being produced in China.
> > Check the archives for the complete history on this. I believe I sent an email
> about this back
> > in the spring. I got this info from two different sales people in Canada where
> I ordered my
> > rivets.
> >
> > Kevin Bonds
>
>
>
>
>
>
Carlos
I think I had planned on researching this more before I mentioned this and caused
a panic so I may not have ever sent an Email about it. Sorry all. I ment well.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <CARLOSFSA@YAHOO.COM>
Kevin, would you mind elaborating on the China news?
Does this mean that if I order my rivets from Textron in Toronto I'll get rivets
produced in
China?
I searched the archives and found nothing regarding this... (kevin rivet
china, 1604-0412
china)
Carlos
do not archive
--- kevinbonds@comcast.net wrote:
-- Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
Bad news is, as of last Oct. the 1604-0412's are being produced in China.
Check the archives for the complete history on this. I believe I sent an email
about this back
in the spring. I got this in
fo from two different sales people in Canada where
I ordered my
rivets.
Kevin Bonds
atronics.com/emaillists
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL New Fuel Valve Control Problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Bryan, thanks for the valve info. Obviously I am a bit confused. Good luck
in your testing, Bill
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: XL trim authority with full flap |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
I thought it was only because of the 0235 Lyc. and the added 100 lbs. on the
nose that i was experiencing the trim, or should i say lack of trim problem.
what i ended up doing is cutting a wedge shape pc. of SM or insulation
board( used in the construction trade on the sides of new homes)
A peice 14" long,by 3" wide, cut in a wedge from 0 to 3/4" and with some 2
sided tape, stuck it under the trailing edge of the RHS elevator as a fixed
trim tab
(very inconspicuous i might add)
and Wha Lah........
for now it works wonderfull , hands off flight is now doable..
(One day i will make a new set of rear Horiz. Stab. brackets and raise the
rear attachment point by a 1/2" or so and then I'm guessing i should be able
to remove the added fixed trim tab.
dave.........C-FDSF XL 0235 Lyc.
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: HeatonHE@aol.com
>>
>>> At first my 601 XL wouldn't trim out even with no flaps. The >first
>>> thing I
>>> did was to duct tape an extension on the trim tab to see >what it would
>>> take
>>> to trim it out. With the tab nearly doubled in size it would >trim out
>>> but it
>>> still took most of the trim travel.
>>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Avex 1604-0412 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
I'm a little concerned that most people seem to think that anything
coming from China is de-facto inferior.
I for one have invested much money into a particular computer hardware
manufacturer who makes most for their products in Taiwan (I know its
not Chinese but might as well be) and in the R.O.C. I've NEVER had any
problems with their equipment. I'd suggest getting some testing done on
these Avex rivets before we just assume that they are not up to par in
quality control.
Trevor Page
DO NOT ARCHIVE
DO NOT FLAME
On Dec 7, 2004, at 1:44 PM, kevinbonds@comcast.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
>
> Nick
>
> Good news and Bad news. The plant in NJ closed years ago, so those so
> called bad rivets are probably long gone. Bad news is, as of last Oct.
> the 1604-0412's are being produced in China. Check the archives for
> the complete history on this. I believe I sent an email about this
> back in the spring. I got this info from two different sales people in
> Canada where I ordered my rivets.
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: nick pace
>>
>> I am using Avex 1604-0412 from Airparts Inc. and I
>> believe they are made in America. I read that the
>> quality control is not as good and they are not
>> recomended for aircraft use.Has or is anyone else
>> using these rivets and does anyone have any thoughts
>> on this subject? I would like to thank the list for
>> any consideration.
>>
>> =====
>> A Fellow Aviator
>> Nick Pace
>> Harpers Ferry WV
>> Building a 601XL #5607
>> Corvair Powered
>> {just started}
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> http://my.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Nick
>
> Good news and Bad news. The plant in NJ closed years ago, so those so
> called bad rivets are probably long gone. Bad news is, as of last Oct.
> the 1604-0412's are being produced in China. Check the archives for
> the complete history on this. I believe I sent an email about this
> back in the spring. I got this info fromtwo differentsalespeople in
> Canada where I ordered my rivets.
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- Zenith-List message posted by: nick pace <ASKNICKP@YAHOO.COM>
>
> I am using Avex 1604-0412 from Airparts Inc. and I
> believe they are made in America. I read that the
> quality control is not as good and they are not
> recomended for aircraft use.Has or is anyone else
> using these rivets and does anyone have any thoughts
> on this subject? I would like to thank the list for
> any consideration.
>
> =====
> A Fellow Aviator
> Nick Pace
> Harpers Ferry WV
> Building a 601XL #5607
> Corvair Powered
> {just started}
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
> =========================================
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL New Fuel Valve Control Problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann@gi.is>
Hello Bill
I looked at their web page, and they do have the option of selecting the
different fitting for each outlet of the valve.
Take a look at the different sizes. AN 8 or IC8, 3/8 NPT or Adjustable male
AN 8.
http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html
Best wishes,
Johann G.
Iceland.
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <JAPhillipsGA@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL New Fuel Valve Control Problem
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
> Hello Thread, Well I appreciate all the fine advise I have received in
> the
> last couple days on this issue. So I trekked the 60 miles up to Spruce
> yesterday and purchased a fine valve. It is an FS20X4 Andair made in
> England and
> pretty as can be. Nice, clean workmanship. Only problem is none of the
> fitting
> I have will screw into or on to the male and female ports. What have I got
> ?
> This thing is growing into a whole new project and all I want to do is
> spray a
> little more paint and go flying ! I e-mailed the Andair folks over the
> pond
> after getting nothing from their web site. Who out there knows what kind
> of
> fittings these are and who might sell them. thanks, Bill of Georgia
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank@megsinet.net>
As I have mentioned in previous posts, the return spring in the engine
pump provided the pressure regulation so no relief/regulator is built
it. I do find it somewhat interesting about the admonitions never to use
an engine driven pump when I flew a Grumman Cheetah for over ten years
and yes it has low wings and you only use the boast pumps for takeoff
and landings, I believe if memory serve me the the Cherokee 140 and 180
used the same system. These plane have been flying for decades with no
troubles. Oh and by the way I had the STP for the Cheetah for use of
auto fuel, the only change to the aircraft to comply was a decal on the
wing around the filler advising the auto fuel could be used.
Tim Shankland
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>Duh...Are you sure there isn't a hole in your diaphram there
>Thilo?....:)
>
>Interesting, the pump must have some kind of pressure relief/regulator
>built in?
>
>Hmm...Still you would never want to use the engine pump alone because it
>will now be sucking both uphill (with a hot pump) and through a dead
>Facet pump which will have some forward flow pressure drop...Never
>measured it though. So it still seems redundant on a Rotax, at least
>with low wing tanks.
>
>Frank
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thilo Kind
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem
>
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
>
>Hi Frank and all,
>
>I have the setup you described: Zodiac CH 601 HDS with L/E tanks, a
>Faucet pump in each bay (which I also use as tank selectors), and the
>Rotax 912 pump in series. During flight operations I always run one
>Faucet pump and the engine pump. I also have a fuel pressure sensor
>downstream of the engine driven pump. For test purposes I have switched
>off the Faucet pumps (yes, I'm fully aware of the purpose of vapor lock
>in this case - we fully agree on this subject. However, this was done
>just for test purposes). The interesting observation was, that the fuel
>presssure doesn't change at all. So, I assume, it doesn't matter from
>the perspective of over-pressuring the Bing whether or not the engine
>driven pump is installed.
>
>Happy flying
>
>Thilo Kind
>currently in Taiwan, where no general aviation exists :-(
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: XL trim authority with full flap |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "wizard-24@juno.com" <wizard-24@juno.com>
In reading all the emails in this thread -- has anyone that has taken a ride in
ZAC's XL demo noticed this same problem? Seems to me that if the demo has this
issue, ZAC would (should) have come up with a solution by now.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Juno Gift Certificates
Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
http://www.juno.com/give
Message 22
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|
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=UEq6ByCwtXpHEccs4/tHdJKp83/ijOgRuiC87N36BNHCc0bmyeG4i77Tu4JKStRP23J5hIaX0Zvc2RsnFO3PuQp7pfV30xgSaBC+Lz99xBGcP+5Co+99oYrjyzwhwwosRtGpOFf1W0evDQwPLoXJgCtTtOqMZ80mXu5SUBZXqYY=
;
| Subject: | Corvair Project/1965 110 hp Engine for sale in Chicago |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63@yahoo.com>
Gentlemen...
I have relunctantly decided to sell my accumulated
Corvair project items. I have decided to build an
RV-9A instead of the 601XL. I say reluctantly because
I like the WW Corvair conversion...and I like the 601
too. But one has to choose in life...and so I will
not be proceeding with my Corvair project. And I need
to clean out the garage for the winter. Therefore the
following are for sale as a package...only to an
original purchaser of WW's Conversion Manual:
A.) 1965 110 hp engine. Case Code is T0420RF. This
is from a manual trans, A/C chassis. It is
appropriate as a starting point for the WW conversion.
It has been
externally power-washed. The engine has never been
taken apart...but it was removed from the chassis in
August 2004. It has the desirable 12-fin oil cooler.
The crank turns freely, although it will not turn past
360 degrees. Perhaps a stuck valve? I was told that
this engine was running until it was removed from the
chassis. I paid $200 for this engine in August 2004.
B.) All five WW Corvair Engine VHS Videos.
1. Introduction to Corvair Engines.
2. Corvair Engine Assembly - Part 1
3. Corvair Engine Assembly - Part 2
4. Corvair Engine Assembly - Part 3
5. Corvair Engine Installation Details
C.) A complete set of books as recommended in WW's
manual. This includes the following:
1. 1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual
2. Richard Finch's "How to keep your Corvair Alive"
3. Frederik Johnson's "Stop Corvair Lubricant Leaks"
4. A complete set of WW's "Corvair Flyer" back-issues.
5. Contact Issue #75...devoted to the Corvair
D.) If you're contemplating a Zenith CH601XL project
I'll throw in the latest Zenith Demo DVD (which I
purchased a couple of months ago)...and the older
Zenith 601XL information package/VHS video.
I'd like to sell all this together. I paid over $450
for all this...but will sell it for $300. It must be
picked up at my home in the heart of Chicago...1 mile
south of Meigs Field. Note that I am not selling my
WW conversion manual...as I believe anybody getting
started should purchase their own manual from WW.
Dan Vandenberg
H (312) 326-3376
C (312) 493-1231
W (708) 339-6321
__________________________________
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Not "Never" to use it just that it really is redundant to the low wing
pumps. The admonishment is never to use it alone....really what I meant
was never use it alone on take off and landing.
But than again, if you are flying at altitude on a warm day and your
engine driven pump locks up, do you really want to experience your
engine spluttering as the fuel pressure hits zero?
Sure you can restore the flow by flippig on the lo wing pumps but what
benefit is the engine pump actually giving you over two low wing
electric pumps by themselves?
Yes the engine pump gives you SOME additional redundancy but the
electric pumps should be fed from two independent electrical sources ( a
whole different discussion...:)..) so you effectively you have a
complete backup system with the two electric pumps as long as you don't
suck a tank dry...I never done it yet.
Its just that hydraulically speaking the engine pump is in the wrong
place and under the right conditions will vapour lock and is therefore a
poor backup to the low wing pumps.
Ok does that explain it now?...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim & Diane
Shankland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland
--> <tshank@megsinet.net>
As I have mentioned in previous posts, the return spring in the engine
pump provided the pressure regulation so no relief/regulator is built
it. I do find it somewhat interesting about the admonitions never to use
an engine driven pump when I flew a Grumman Cheetah for over ten years
and yes it has low wings and you only use the boast pumps for takeoff
and landings, I believe if memory serve me the the Cherokee 140 and 180
used the same system. These plane have been flying for decades with no
troubles. Oh and by the way I had the STP for the Cheetah for use of
auto fuel, the only change to the aircraft to comply was a decal on the
wing around the filler advising the auto fuel could be used.
Tim Shankland
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing trailing edge |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Walt Cannon <grnlake@earthlink.net>
Dirk,
Some others have proposed good assembly techniques to keep the trailing
edge straight. I did something else in addition that I have been very
pleased with. I bought some anodized AL 3/4 x .062 strip extrusion from
Home Depot and sandwiched it in between the upper and lower skins at the
TE. It helped to keep it much straighter and the end result is much more
robust when it comes to hangar rash etc. Of course, you will have to get
a grip length longer of the solid soft rivets,
Walt Cannon
Seattle
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Avex 1604-0412 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
Yeah, I hope that is true. I guess I am a little skeptical only because of the
type of products you normally see coming from there. It doesn't mean that they
cant make a good product over there (I am aware of the other geopolitical issues
involved but do not wish to go into them--we can discuss that elsewhere).
I'm not assuming that they will not be up to par, I'm just not excited about losing
a reliable source for a yet untested source ya know. BTW how would we test
some of these? First we would have to get our hands on some that we knew were
made there and run tests. I'm not sure that any made there have hit the market
yet (since the plant opened in Oct) they probably stocked up before the move.
Anyone have a suggestion. I have plenty of rivets at the moment but will need
more sometime. If anyone is buying rivets now maybe they could research more.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page
>
> I'm a little concerned that most people seem to think that anything
> coming from China is de-facto inferior.
>
> I for one have invested much money into a particular computer hardware
> manufacturer who makes most for their products in Taiwan (I know its
> not Chinese but might as well be) and in the R.O.C. I've NEVER had any
> problems with their equipment. I'd suggest getting some testing done on
> these Avex rivets before we just assume that they are not up to par in
> quality control.
>
> Trevor Page
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> DO NOT FLAME
>
> On Dec 7, 2004, at 1:44 PM, kevinbonds@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > Good news and Bad news. The plant in NJ closed years ago, so those so
> > called bad rivets are probably long gone. Bad news is, as of last Oct.
> > the 1604-0412's are being produced in China. Check the archives for
> > the complete history on this. I believe I sent an email about this
> > back in the spring. I got this info from two different sales people in
> > Canada where I ordered my rivets.
> >
> > Kevin Bonds
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: nick pace
> >>
> >> I am using Avex 1604-0412 from Airparts Inc. and I
> >> believe they are made in America. I read that the
> >> quality control is not as good and they are not
> >> recomended for aircraft use.Has or is anyone else
> >> using these rivets and does anyone have any thoughts
> >> on this subject? I would like to thank the list for
> >> any consideration.
> >>
> >> =====
> >> A Fellow Aviator
> >> Nick Pace
> >> Harpers Ferry WV
> >> Building a 601XL #5607
> >> Corvair Powered
> >> {just started}
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________
> >> http://my.yahoo.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > Good news and Bad news. The plant in NJ closed years ago, so those so
> > called bad rivets are probably long gone. Bad news is, as of last Oct.
> > the 1604-0412's are being produced in China. Check the archives for
> > the complete history on this. I believe I sent an email about this
> > back in the spring. I got this info fromtwo differentsalespeople in
> > Canada where I ordered my rivets.
> >
> > Kevin Bonds
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> > -- Zenith-List message posted by: nick pace
> >
> > I am using Avex 1604-0412 from Airparts Inc. and I
> > believe they are made in America. I read that the
> > quality control is not as good and they are not
> > recomended for aircraft use.Has or is anyone else
> > using these rivets and does anyone have any thoughts
> > on this subject? I would like to thank the list for
> > any consideration.
> >
> > =====
> > A Fellow Aviator
> > Nick Pace
> > Harpers Ferry WV
> > Building a 601XL #5607
> > Corvair Powered
> > {just started}
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > http://my.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > =========================================
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Yeah, I hope that is true. I guess I am a little skeptical only because of the
type of products you normally see coming from there. It doesn't mean that they
cant make a good product over there (I am aware of the other geopolitical issues
involved but do not wish to go into them--we can discuss that elsewhere).
I'm not assuming that they will not be up to par, I'm just not excited about losing
a reliable source for a yet untested source ya know. BTW how would we test
some of these? First we would have to get our hands on some that we knew were
made there and run tests. I'm not sure that any made there have hit the market
yet (since the plant opened in Oct) they probably stocked up before the move.
Anyone have a suggestion. I have plenty of rivets at the moment but will need
more sometime. If anyone is buying rivets now maybe they could research more.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <WEBMASTER@UPAC.CA>
I'm a little concerned that most people seem to think that anything
coming from China is de-facto inferior.
I for one have invested much money into a particular computer hardware
manufacturer who makes most for their products in Taiwan (I know its
not Chinese but might as well be) and in the R.O.C. I've NEVER had any
problems with their equipment. I'd suggest getting some testing done on
these Avex rivets before we just assume that they are not up to par in
quality control.
Trevor Page
DO NOT ARCHIVE
DO NOT FLAME
On Dec 7, 2004, at 1:44 PM, kevinbonds@comcast.net wrote:
-- Zenith-List m
essage posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
Nick
Good news and Bad news. The plant in NJ closed years ago, so those so
called bad rivets are probably long gone. Bad news is, as of last Oct.
the 1604-0412's are being produced in China. Check the archives for
the complete history on this. I believe I sent an email about this
back in the spring. I got this info from two different sales people in
Canada where I ordered my rivets.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: nick pace
I am using Avex 1604-0412 from Airparts Inc. and I
believe they are made in America. I read that the
quality control is not as good and they are not
re
comended for aircraft use.Has or is anyone else
using these rivets and does anyone have any thoughts
on this subject? I would like to thank the list for
any consideration.
=====
A Fellow Aviator
Nick Pace
Harpers Ferry WV
Building a 601XL #5607
Corvair Powered
{just started}
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Nick
Good news and Bad news. The plant in NJ closed years ago, so those so
called bad rivets are probably long gone. Bad news is, as of last Oct.
the 1604-0412's are being produc
ed in China. Check the archives for
the complete history on this. I believe I sent an email about this
back in the spring. I got this info fromtwo differentsalespeople in
Canada where I ordered my rivets.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: nick pace <ASKNICKP@YAHOO.COM>
I am using Avex 1604-0412 from Airparts Inc. and I
believe they are made in America. I read that the
quality control is not as good and they are not
recomended for aircraft use.Has or is anyone else
using these rivets and does anyone have any thoughts
on this subject? I would like to thank the list for
any consideration.
=====
A Fellow Aviator
Nick Pace
&g
t; Harpers Ferry WV
Building a 601XL #5607
Corvair Powered
{just started}
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
=========================================
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