---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/10/04: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:03 AM - Re: Verner 13 M engine (Howard Carter) 2. 03:03 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 12/09/04 (Tommy Walker) 3. 09:11 AM - Re: New Rotax startup procedure (Cleone Markwell) 4. 11:22 AM - 701 Upper Channel Reinforcement (JERICKSON03E@aol.com) 5. 11:54 AM - Re: Verner 13 M engine (Ihab Awad) 6. 01:30 PM - CNC former photo request (Kevin Kinney) 7. 02:47 PM - Re: 701 Upper Channel Reinforcement (Gary Gower) 8. 05:27 PM - Heater and battery charging ports (Larry McFarland) 9. 06:07 PM - Re: Verner 13 M engine (Jim and Lucy) 10. 08:02 PM - Re: Verner 13 M engine (gary) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:01 AM PST US From: Howard Carter Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Verner 13 M engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: Howard Carter Dirk, where do I find info on the Verner engine? Howard Carter Dirk Slabbert wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" > >As the 701 takes shape I am looking at various engine options, wondering if anyone considered the Verner engine? >80 hp, 2 cyl air cooled, on paper it lookslike a replacement for the expensive 912? >Thanks, >Dirk. >701 Piketberg SA. > > >__________ NOD32 1.939 (20041203) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.nod32.com > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:38 AM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 12/09/04 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" Three things about our plane: 1. Engine startup and shutdown tip 2. Oil cooler mounting 3. 701 wing tank sending unit -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Zenith-List Digest Server Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 12/09/04 * ================================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================== Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-12-0 9.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-12-0 9.txt ================================================ EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================ Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/09/04: 6 Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:31 AM - Re: 701 fuel sender unit (RURUNY@aol.com) 2. 04:54 AM - XL trim authority with full flap (The Minearts) 3. 11:06 AM - Re: XL trim authority with full flap (Bryan Martin) 4. 12:46 PM - New Rotax startup procedure (Jon Croke) 5. 09:34 PM - Rotax 912S Oil Cooler Mounting (Jonathan Starke) 6. 10:48 PM - Verner 13 M engine (Dirk Slabbert) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:45 AM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 fuel sender unit 0.50 MIME_BASE64_LATIN RAW: Latin alphabet text using base64 encoding 1.01 MIME_BASE64_TEXT RAW: Message text disguised using base64 encoding --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com George, >I would like to hear from 701 builders about the new location of the fuel sender Revised 11-27/04. I looked over the new installation manuals for the new sender installation. The sender is different than the one I received with my kit. The one I received needed to be modified by cutting off and removing parts to get it to fit. The new one just needs to be bent into the correct shape and has a new spade type center terminal. I cannot say that the new installation on the side of the tank might be more prone to leaking but it will be harder to get to for maintenance or inspection. The sender lines up with the lightening hole in the rib so it would be possible to get to it by putting an access panel alongside on bottom of wing.If you have the dual tank option and you install the sender on the inboard side of the outboard tank, it would be impossible to see or get to without removing the tank. An outboard install would make sense here and I would bet the new drawings reflect this. The manual shows the installation on the inboard tank, inboard side only. >What was the problem with the top position of the sender? The only problem with the top mounted sender was clearance of the center terminal to the top wing skin. I resolved this by putting cork ring spacers on tank around sender so it could not make contact. I made access panels with screws for easy removal and inspection. These are CH approved. See: http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b35a2673650c I have seen others with domed covers. At Oshkosh HB camping this year I saw a nice 701 with removable lexan windows over the senders. #2 Is it accepted practice to drill in the side of the fuel tank? I have seen 601 and RV builders doing this with their tanks. >What about safety wire on the sender?..none shown on the pictures. I did not use any, but I am considering this. You will have to drill the heads of the screws provided. If you provide access, at least you can check them for tightness. Hope some of this helps. archive Brian Unruh Long Island, NY ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:03 AM PST US From: "The Minearts" Subject: Zenith-List: XL trim authority with full flap --> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Minearts" I rode in the factory XL with Jabiru, don't remember any issues. But I've noticed on the demo video, when it takes off and makes a low takeoff pass, there is a noticeable small porpoising, making it look very sensitive in pitch. Steve M. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:06:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL trim authority with full flap From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 12/9/04 7:53 AM, The Minearts at smineart@kdsi.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Minearts" > > I rode in the factory XL with Jabiru, don't remember any issues. But I've > noticed on the demo video, when it takes off and makes a low takeoff pass, > there is a noticeable small porpoising, making it look very sensitive in > pitch. That porpoising is probably because of the aft position of the main landing gear. When you take off, you have to pull back on the stick and rotate for lift-off, it won't lift off on its own like a high-wing Cessna. When you rotate for lift-off, the plane pivots around the main landing gear, as soon as you lift off, it wants to pivot around the CG and starts to pitch up. You then have to immediately ease the back pressure and stabilize to a proper climb attitude. It's easy to over compensate and cause a small bit of oscillation before it stabilizes, the control forces are pretty light. Just make sure you don't rotate until you are well above stall speed and don't pull back too hard. I usually rotate at about 60 mph. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. In Phase I testing. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:46:36 PM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Zenith-List: New Rotax startup procedure --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" Just got back from one of those Rotax 4 stroke seminars (3 day) held at LEAF in Wisconsin. Met a fellow 701 builder, Steve Johnson. Small world! Wanted to share a tip I never heard before for ALL 912S owners. This is from Eric Tucker, the Kodiak distributor rep: IF you are still fighting violent engine shake at startup (important: assuming you have the HD starter and slipper clutch already), then try the following: TURN OFF one of your Mag circuits instead of turning them both on like you usually do. Once the engine starts, THEN turn it on! This technique has apprarently been met with great success in reducing the shakes at startup. The theory is that a single mag retards the timing by just a little. When shutting down, you can reverse the procudeure (shut off one mag), then the the other. (if you are having shakes at shutdown) (I'm not referring to the shakes you might get from experiencing one of my STOL 'in the tree' landings!) This is not an official Rotax procedure, just a technique that has worked well in the field. F W I W Another 'news to me' thing is that there is a brand new carb socket introduced by Rotax a month or two ago... harder rubber composition, NOT a mandatory replacement, tho. Jon Croke www.CH701.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:54 PM PST US From: "Jonathan Starke" Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 912S Oil Cooler Mounting --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" Hi List has anyone had this problem? I have sent the query to ZAC, as follows: Using instructions 912S Firewall Forward Section 5 for installing the Oil Cooler on the Rotax 912S Installation of Bracket 6E6-5CZ is shown mounting to the rear Dynafocal Bracket E3- 1X I have drilled and mounted the barcket for fitting here, but when fitting the Lower Cowl, the slot for the oil cooler is at least 10cm further forward. In addition the exhaust cannister is only about 5mm behind the oil cooler! Removing the engine again, and looking from the top, with the dynafocal mounts in place, it looks like the oil cooler should be hung from the front mount plate, but the bracket for the oil cooler is completely wrong. Is there an updated bracket for fitting the oil cooler, such that it it fits in the slot behind the NACA scoop on the cowl? Please help. Jonathan Starke ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:57 PM PST US From: "Dirk Slabbert" Subject: Zenith-List: Verner 13 M engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" As the 701 takes shape I am looking at various engine options, wondering if anyone considered the Verner engine? 80 hp, 2 cyl air cooled, on paper it lookslike a replacement for the expensive 912? Thanks, Dirk. 701 Piketberg SA. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:52 AM PST US From: Cleone Markwell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Rotax startup procedure --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cleone Markwell Wish I'd known that for the last three years. Ha. Well, it always bothered me, but as soon as it settled down I soon forgot about it. Cleone At 02:45 PM 12/9/04, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" > >Just got back from one of those Rotax 4 stroke seminars (3 day) held at >LEAF in Wisconsin. > >Met a fellow 701 builder, Steve Johnson. Small world! > >Wanted to share a tip I never heard before for ALL 912S owners. This is >from Eric Tucker, the Kodiak distributor rep: > >IF you are still fighting violent engine shake at startup (important: >assuming you have the HD starter and slipper clutch already), then try the >following: >TURN OFF one of your Mag circuits instead of turning them both on like you >usually do. Once the engine starts, THEN turn it on! > >This technique has apprarently been met with great success in reducing the >shakes at startup. The theory is that a single mag retards the timing by >just a little. > >When shutting down, you can reverse the procudeure (shut off one mag), >then the the other. (if you are having shakes at shutdown) (I'm not >referring to the shakes you might get from experiencing one of my STOL 'in >the tree' landings!) > >This is not an official Rotax procedure, just a technique that has worked >well in the field. F W I W > >Another 'news to me' thing is that there is a brand new carb socket >introduced by Rotax a month or two ago... harder rubber composition, NOT a >mandatory replacement, tho. > >Jon Croke >www.CH701.com > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:05 AM PST US From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Upper Channel Reinforcement --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Wondering if 701 builders have advice about adding two std L's on the 7F7-1SP, Upper Channel. Earlier plans showed the two added Ls, when the material was somewhat thinner. The 7F7-1SP is now .063 material. Wonder if that is holding up to rough field use? Jerry ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:54:39 AM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; b=WmfXzwSTze/Pu7IobPBVKMq7H81fLUORWcilXPUlmNQ8YESiHbNzW7eIXzA4P5SikEz8LtY6cpvW7UyBeiUUhugbvxduf7kZgESavZT3jz2ijpcEddJRFxtBTK9morHoIsSdidCg9srianMC7I40MCdKzmsi4uPkruml1HuzBHwReceived: by 10.54.46.54 with SMTP id t54mr827959wrt; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:50:50 -0800 (PST) From: Ihab Awad Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Verner 13 M engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:58:40 -0800, Howard Carter wrote: > where do I find info on the Verner engine? http://www.ultralightnews.ca/sunfun02/verner_aircraftengine.htm Peace, Ihab ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:30:54 PM PST US From: Kevin Kinney Subject: Zenith-List: CNC former photo request --> Zenith-List message posted by: Kevin Kinney I'm writing an article for our EAA 174 newsletter about using CNC in the home workshop. I use CNC based rib forms as an example. Would anyone have a photo of a CNC machine cutting a rib form? Alternately, I could a picture of a CNC'd rib form in use. Thank you in advance, Kevin Kinney ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:04 PM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=NVxABJsqWVKMaO0fxuilRKkGH9c4ugFYnf0HWufnFb3zguVz4ffRsHzM6ic9SRnR6islcXGhPYpu05i6Iit+iCPP+5iEeVHaGjmOt5EC+gZF3N8GV1q0xOE/Ecbi3gt6jruVWBVVLXtu7KAz9qgdGC0IEPR9NotJP2EfeRZ920A= ; From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Upper Channel Reinforcement --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Jerry, I think the front wheel assembly and firewall are strong enough in the Zenith airplanes ... Just one advise: Remember always to land on the Main Landing Gear , holding the front wheel from the strip as long as you have speed (authority with the empenage) then the wheel will lower by itself. even in regular mantained grass strips this is possible... In case of an emergency landing (deadstick) fly the airplane all the way down to the last moment and then do as best as you can to walk away, plane goes second and can be rebuilt or build another one if you are in one piece... Just one thing: Maybe only if you use the heavier Soobs or Corvair, you might as well reinforce A LITTLE BIT this area... first ask ZAC off course as with all mods in structural area, in cosmetics you can do as you want trying to not add (to much) Weight. If you take care of your plane,you are taking care of yourself.as a free bonus... My .02 centavos Saludos Gary Gower. JERICKSON03E@aol.com wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Wondering if 701 builders have advice about adding two std L's on the 7F7-1SP, Upper Channel. Earlier plans showed the two added Ls, when the material was somewhat thinner. The 7F7-1SP is now .063 material. Wonder if that is holding up to rough field use? Jerry ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:35 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Zenith-List: Heater and battery charging ports --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Hi Guys, Well, with snow and freezing temps becoming the norm, I finished putting together a common heater, with bungee-attached flex-tube and adapter for warming my Stratus's engine oil, seen at the bottom of the Completions page and more recently seen at the bottom of the Electrical page, a dual battery charging port that keeps both battery circuits separate and does permit external access avoids having to climb in to hook them up. This is not for starting, but only for charging. There's an oval cover that uses Dzus fasteners to close and seal the ports. I'm using two Battery tender chargers with cigarette receptacle-plugs to make connection simple and basic. Didn't like the bulk of the Cole-Hersey type but this seems to work real well on the underside. Fly safe, Larry McFarland - 601HDS - 47 hours www.macsmachine.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:04 PM PST US From: Jim and Lucy Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Verner 13 M engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy At 08:35 AM 12/10/2004 +0200, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" > >As the 701 takes shape I am looking at various engine options, wondering >if anyone considered the Verner engine? A guy in Hungary has one in a 601 http://www.ultralight.hu/zodiac601/zkepgaleria.htm Jim ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:08 PM PST US From: "gary" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Verner 13 M engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary" > where do I find info on the Verner engine? http://www.flydiver.com/