---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/03/05: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:38 AM - Elevator sensitivity vs. control harmony (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 2. 10:58 AM - Hinge (Dave & Darlene) 3. 12:01 PM - Re: Testing Avionics (Kent Brown) 4. 12:07 PM - Question before first engine run (Trevor Page) 5. 12:28 PM - Re:Engine run (Zed Smith) 6. 12:36 PM - Re: Question before first engine run (Cleone Markwell) 7. 01:32 PM - gascolator (rical26) 8. 02:36 PM - 601 Canopy (Jim Pellien) 9. 02:49 PM - Re: Hinge (george may) 10. 03:26 PM - Re: 601 Canopy (Larry McFarland) 11. 06:30 PM - Re: Question before first engine run (Trevor Page) 12. 09:42 PM - 601XL POH, Anybody Got One ? (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 13. 09:52 PM - 601 XL FLush Fuel Caps (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:17 AM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: Zenith-List: Elevator sensitivity vs. control harmony --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Interesting comments on the control harmony in the 601XL. I am currently flying a '69 AA-1 and when I took my test ride in the 601XL, the first thing I noticed was that the control forces were comparatively quite heavy all around, but especially in the ailerons! You can fly the AA-1 with two fingers! I'm already sure I'll use the piano hinges for the ailerons, but am even thinking of adding attachment points for spades, in case I need to further lighten the loads. Seems like it's all a matter of what you're used to. Andy Elliott Lycoming owner, Corvair wannabe! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:58:27 AM PST US From: "Dave & Darlene" Subject: Zenith-List: Hinge --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" Would anyone happen to know the part # for hinges at Aircraft Spruce. I'm not exactly sure which one it is. I'm building the XL Dave Alberta 601XL ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:32 PM PST US From: "Kent Brown" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Testing Avionics --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown" > How is anyone testing their electrical systems (lights, fuel senders, > etc.) early on in the construction phase? I am looking for ideas for a > variable power supply. Thanks in advance. > > Tom Makibbin > 601XL Tail done, finishing right wing > > I bought a 7A Powersonic gel cell battery to use to check nav lights, etc. A small regulated charger keeps it charged, and I also use it to run a handheld radio so I can listen to ATC while I'm building. Motivation, you know! Battery seems to work better than a 4A regulated supply I tried using. Kent ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:54 PM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Zenith-List: Question before first engine run --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page Listers, I was hoping you can shed some light on something for me since you've all been very helpful. First, a little history. I purchased an older used Rotax 912UL some months ago for my 601HD project which I'm almost done with. This engine is an older UL model I believe since I has the electronics in an external aluminum box. I have just finished the firewall-forward installation today and filled up the engine with all fluids, except for fuel in order to try a test run this week. I have everything wired up correctly, the engine turns over when I apply main power and turn the key (I'm using an Aircraft Spruce ignition with key). I removed 1 spark plug to check for spark (holding the plug against the intake manifold for grounding) and turning the key. I do not see a spark. I tried on another spark plug, same thing. My question is: Am I supposed to see a spark? My understanding of regular engines is that I'm supposed to. Now, in light of this I should tell you a couple more things because I'm at a loss to explain the lack of spark. 1. The electronic box I mentioned does not have any mag wires coming out of it. Only 2 spade connectors on the bottom of the unit. I hooked my mag wires to those since that's the only logical place I can think of. I have a picture of the box if anyone wants to see what I'm talking about. 2. I changed the older original EYQUEM plugs to regular DCPR7E plugs as per Tech bulletin 912-01. The only deviation was that I used NGK 120 plug connectors which are of resistor type instead of the NGK units that Rotax uses. At first I thought that my plug connectors having resistors was impeding the spark but according to the tech bulletin both the plugs and connectors Rotax recommends have resistors as well. Maybe I didn't wire the ignition properly? I spent a lot of time wiring that little guy and I tested every connection in my electrical system with a meter as I went along, so far I do not have any problems other than a severe drop in voltage when turning over the engine (my EIS seems to turn on and off at each revolution). That I don't care about too much as long as it settles once the engine is running. Any thoughts on what I should test/change would be greatly appreciated. I want to make sure I'm not worrying about something that is moot before I go too far. Trevor Page ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:28:50 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Engine run --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Is it possible you have the two mag leads grounded, rather than "open", therefore "killing" the spark? Remove the wires to the spade lugs, crank engine, check for spark. I'm not presently in hangar, don't have Rotax manuals at hand, but this is my first guess. Zed/901/R912/been there, done that/do not archive. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:36:50 PM PST US From: Cleone Markwell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question before first engine run --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cleone Markwell Trevor, can you reach the fuel shut off easily? My grounding wires did not have a good enough ground and I went out and made my first flight and then couldn't shut the engine off till I shut off the fuel. The key switch had worked for several runs before but I can tell you I was glad my shut off was handy. It took a few minutes to use up the available fuel. Just be sure you can stop the engine before you start it. Sorry, I can't tell you the answer to your question. I found that I did not understand several things about the 912 UL so I have removed it in favor of a Corvair engine. Cleone At 09:05 PM 1/2/05, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page > >Listers, I was hoping you can shed some light on something for me since >you've all been very helpful. > >First, a little history. I purchased an older used Rotax 912UL some >months ago for my 601HD project which I'm almost done with. This engine >is an older UL model I believe since I has the electronics in an >external aluminum box. I have just finished the firewall-forward >installation today and filled up the engine with all fluids, except for >fuel in order to try a test run this week. > >I have everything wired up correctly, the engine turns over when I >apply main power and turn the key (I'm using an Aircraft Spruce >ignition with key). >I removed 1 spark plug to check for spark (holding the plug against the >intake manifold for grounding) and turning the key. I do not see a >spark. >I tried on another spark plug, same thing. > >My question is: > >Am I supposed to see a spark? My understanding of regular engines is >that I'm supposed to. > >Now, in light of this I should tell you a couple more things because >I'm at a loss to explain the lack of spark. > >1. The electronic box I mentioned does not have any mag wires coming >out of it. Only 2 spade connectors on the bottom of the unit. I hooked >my mag wires to those since that's the only logical place I can think >of. I have a picture of the box if anyone wants to see what I'm talking >about. > >2. I changed the older original EYQUEM plugs to regular DCPR7E plugs as >per Tech bulletin 912-01. The only deviation was that I used NGK 120 >plug connectors which are of resistor type instead of the NGK units >that Rotax uses. > >At first I thought that my plug connectors having resistors was >impeding the spark but according to the tech bulletin both the plugs >and connectors Rotax recommends have resistors as well. >Maybe I didn't wire the ignition properly? I spent a lot of time wiring >that little guy and I tested every connection in my electrical system >with a meter as I went along, so far I do not have any problems other >than a severe drop in voltage when turning over the engine (my EIS >seems to turn on and off at each revolution). That I don't care about >too much as long as it settles once the engine is running. > >Any thoughts on what I should test/change would be greatly appreciated. >I want to make sure I'm not worrying about something that is moot >before I go too far. > >Trevor Page > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:35 PM PST US From: "rical26" Subject: Zenith-List: gascolator --> Zenith-List message posted by: "rical26" Hi, what is the most popular gascolator used with a rotax 912UL? regards Richard Thanks to have answered my question on rad cover.I'm just a newbie!!!! do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:03 PM PST US From: "Jim Pellien" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Canopy 0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" Question for the group: The 601 canopy, when open, could be a large wind sail. Has anybody experienced breakage of the canopy or its connecting rod and damper in strong winds? Is it a smart idea to add a bungee or spring to make sure the canopy does not open too far and damage the damper/rods? Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Region SportsPlanes.com 703-851-9375 www.sportsplanes.com jim@sportsplanes.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:40 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hinge --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" Dave-- I purchased the retrofit hinge kit from ZAC. The part number staped on the hinge is MS20257-5. It is available from Wicks under that number George May 601XL >From: "Dave & Darlene" >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Zenith-List: Hinge >Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 12:08:09 -0800 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" > > >Would anyone happen to know the part # for hinges at Aircraft Spruce. I'm >not exactly sure which one it is. I'm building the XL > >Dave >Alberta >601XL > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:31 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Canopy --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Jim, I put a 1/8" x 3/4" nylon strap between the seats up to the canopy rear center tube. Pictures of it detailed on canopy page of the www.macsmachine.com site. Yes, I've found myself rolling along while sitting on the centerwing, legs over the front, with strap taut acting as a sail. Had to lower the canopy with difficulty to stop the rolling. The strap works! No damage. Larry McFarland - 601HDS with 50 hours Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Canopy > The 601 canopy, when open, could be a large wind sail. Has anybody > experienced breakage of the > canopy or its connecting rod and damper in strong winds? > Jim Pellien > Mid-Atlantic Region > SportsPlanes.com > 703-851-9375 > www.sportsplanes.com > jim@sportsplanes.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:11 PM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question before first engine run --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page Looks like I solved my own problem. I removed all the plugs, re-gapped to 20 thou and shut off the lights in my garage... Lo and behold, SPARK!!! So, now I wait for a warmer day to pull her out and start her up. Wish me luck, I'll report my findings. Trevor Page Things left to do: Install canopy, attach wings. Can I claim 99% done now?? ;) On Jan 3, 2005, at 3:13 PM, Cleone Markwell wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cleone Markwell > > Trevor, can you reach the fuel shut off easily? My grounding wires > did not > have a good enough ground and I went out and made my first flight and > then > couldn't shut the engine off till I shut off the fuel. The key switch > had > worked for several runs before but I can tell you I was glad my shut > off > was handy. It took a few minutes to use up the available fuel. Just be > sure you can stop the engine before you start it. Sorry, I can't tell > you > the answer to your question. I found that I did not understand several > things about the 912 UL so I have removed it in favor of a Corvair > engine. Cleone > > > At 09:05 PM 1/2/05, you wrote: >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page >> >> Listers, I was hoping you can shed some light on something for me >> since >> you've all been very helpful. >> >> First, a little history. I purchased an older used Rotax 912UL some >> months ago for my 601HD project which I'm almost done with. This >> engine >> is an older UL model I believe since I has the electronics in an >> external aluminum box. I have just finished the firewall-forward >> installation today and filled up the engine with all fluids, except >> for >> fuel in order to try a test run this week. >> >> I have everything wired up correctly, the engine turns over when I >> apply main power and turn the key (I'm using an Aircraft Spruce >> ignition with key). >> I removed 1 spark plug to check for spark (holding the plug against >> the >> intake manifold for grounding) and turning the key. I do not see a >> spark. >> I tried on another spark plug, same thing. >> >> My question is: >> >> Am I supposed to see a spark? My understanding of regular engines is >> that I'm supposed to. >> >> Now, in light of this I should tell you a couple more things because >> I'm at a loss to explain the lack of spark. >> >> 1. The electronic box I mentioned does not have any mag wires coming >> out of it. Only 2 spade connectors on the bottom of the unit. I hooked >> my mag wires to those since that's the only logical place I can think >> of. I have a picture of the box if anyone wants to see what I'm >> talking >> about. >> >> 2. I changed the older original EYQUEM plugs to regular DCPR7E plugs >> as >> per Tech bulletin 912-01. The only deviation was that I used NGK 120 >> plug connectors which are of resistor type instead of the NGK units >> that Rotax uses. >> >> At first I thought that my plug connectors having resistors was >> impeding the spark but according to the tech bulletin both the plugs >> and connectors Rotax recommends have resistors as well. >> Maybe I didn't wire the ignition properly? I spent a lot of time >> wiring >> that little guy and I tested every connection in my electrical system >> with a meter as I went along, so far I do not have any problems other >> than a severe drop in voltage when turning over the engine (my EIS >> seems to turn on and off at each revolution). That I don't care about >> too much as long as it settles once the engine is running. >> >> Any thoughts on what I should test/change would be greatly >> appreciated. >> I want to make sure I'm not worrying about something that is moot >> before I go too far. >> >> Trevor Page >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:12 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL POH, Anybody Got One ? --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Hello Thread Friends, I need a draft of a 601 XL POH for a Jab 3300. Anybody out there got one they are real proud of that I could plagiarize? Best regards for Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:44 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL FLush Fuel Caps --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, I was about to attach my wings yesterday when I decided a fuel tank leak test would be just the thing to do before hand. I have the flush type caps on the wing tanks that are gray and have a short thermos type handle for engaging and removal. First cap came off fine and fuel test was also good. Then I tried to get the other bastard off and the cap refuses to lift out. I taped on it, WD 40'ed it, turned it a tiny bit, even strung safety wire through the little handle, connected to a large plastic tie and lifted the whole wing off the saw horses trying to get it to lift out. Anybody suffer this same shame? I know it worked when I put the tanks in a year ago. Anybody got a suggestion short of drilling the bugger out and buying another from Mr. Spruce? Frustrated in Georgia, Bill