Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:53 AM - Re: Increasing gross weight (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
2. 11:41 AM - Re: DAR Costs (Gary Gower)
3. 12:38 PM - Re: Zodiac crash at PAE (Bob Miller)
4. 02:25 PM - Re: Zodiac crash at PAE ()
5. 02:45 PM - Re: Zodiac crash at PAE (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
6. 05:55 PM - Pilot Report (Matt & Jo)
7. 06:26 PM - Re: Zodiac crash at PAE (Benford2@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Increasing gross weight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I stand corrected....Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Glasserow
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Increasing gross weight
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow"
--> <jeffglass@starband.net>
On the contrary! SPA legal up to 1320 lbs. gross weight with fixed
gear.
1460 lbs. if you put your 601 0n floats...
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Increasing gross weight
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Are you fluing as a sport pilot aircraft? I don't know how to re-plate
it but it sure won't be Sport pilot friendly at 1300lbs...:)
Frank
HDS 350 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Glasserow
Subject: Zenith-List: Increasing gross weight
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow"
--> <jeffglass@starband.net>
I'd like input from you listers on the feasability of increasing the
gross weight of my HDS from 1200 to 1300 lbs.
The previous owner told he he often flew the plane at or near 1300 lbs.
with no ill effects. When looking for HDS POH's I noticed that there are
a few
HDS's out there with published gross weights of 1300 lbs. I sure could
use
the legal extra weight! In any event I'm going to have the plane
re-weighed with me in it to establish proper weight and balance criteria
since it hasn't been weighed since 1999.
Jeff Glasserow
CH 601 HDS
N6384E
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Looks like the bouros are the same worldwide... at least in some countries we have
two options: "normal" free service, and "fa$t" with a little under
the table fee... :-)
At least there you can complain with the chiefs.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive of course
Mike H <mhilderbrand@cox.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H"
That is too bad. I phyisically went to the FSDO dept in person. Talked with
the superivor in charge (giving them my paper work and pictures of the
plane) he assigned the inspection to a couple guys, gave me their names.
said if they don't call me within a week, to call them. They called me back
within 3 days. had the inspection within 2 weeks. The guys were very
friendly!
(I don't work for the faa)
Michael H
I called the local Faa office here in Wyoming and found out real quick they
> DON'T do inspections. They referred me to the ONLY one they appove in the
> state. Nice guy,was very competent. It cost me 400.00 + travel costs which
were
> 75.00. After I was issued the certificate I did call the Faa's office and
told
> them "good luck on me ever cooperating with you guys on ANY matter in the
> future". Seems they want to eat doughnuts and pass the buck and still draw
a
> paycheck from the very fund we aviators pay into. No wonder the Feds are 8
TRILLION
> in debt...
>
> Ben Haas N801BH Jackson Hole Wy...
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: DAR Costs
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/4/2005 6:20:29 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> professor71@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> >
> > >
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac crash at PAE |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Joe,
Many thanks for the details. If I'd gotten 3 minute clearance from the
"experts" in the tower, I'd have gone too and undoubtedly would have had
the same sad outcome or worse. Well, now that won't happen for me and
probably for a few other would-have-been victims, thanks to your willingness
to share your experience. Thanks again, and best luck with your insurance
and building your new XL. Expertise you've gained building the HDS should
make the process faster.
Keep us informed as to the outcome.
Maybe some of us will be in your area at times and could lend a hand.
Heck, maybe we could even have a fly-in!
Bob Miller
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac crash at PAE |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jeffglass@starband.net>
Guys, here's my experience with "Tower" and clearances after a "heavy"
takes off or lands. I was flying out of Charlotte in a Cessna 175 at
close to gross weight of 2700 lbs. A 727 landed in front of me and the
tower immediately cleared me for take off. I told the tower I was going
to hold for at least 7 minutes. There was dead silence on their end,
They then repeated that I was cleared for immediate takeoff. I said no,
they sent me to the back of the line behind a few King-Airs, which was OK
with me. Got back to the head of the line and, damn, if here didn't come
another 727! Same sequence with the tower, except this time I held my
ground, waited my 7 minutes and took off. I'm sure it screwed up the
tower operations but I had just had a lecture and seen a video of wing tip
vorticies and the type of damage they can do to light aircraft. My
lesson? Stay away from large airports when they are busy. Had I gone to
a GA airport I would have been long gone with none of the hassles I ended
up getting into. And yes, I did get a call from the FAA asking me about
my actions. In the end, all was OK, the inspector said I had the right to
hold until I felt the runway was clear, but that I should have used more
prudence in picking where I was, when I was. And I now agree. I had gone
into Charlotte to prove to myself that I could handle a "BIG" airport. I
did. My instructor was proud, my wife was furious, and my blood pressure
had to go up 20 points! I won't do it again unless it's an airport of last
resort or an emergency. Oh, and to add insult to injury, once off the
ground I got vectored to every point on the map except to where I wanted
to go...
Jeff Glasserow
CH 601 HDS
N6384E (And by coincidence my old tail number was N6583E...)
DO NOT ARCHIVE!
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
> <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
>
> Joe,
> Many thanks for the details. If I'd gotten 3 minute clearance from the
> "experts" in the tower, I'd have gone too and undoubtedly would have
> had the same sad outcome or worse. Well, now that won't happen for me
> and probably for a few other would-have-been victims, thanks to your
> willingness to share your experience. Thanks again, and best luck
> with your insurance and building your new XL. Expertise you've gained
> building the HDS should make the process faster.
>
> Keep us informed as to the outcome.
> Maybe some of us will be in your area at times and could lend a hand.
> Heck, maybe we could even have a fly-in!
>
> Bob Miller
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Zodiac crash at PAE |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Interesting and certainly prudent.
My own (somewhat) limited experience is to fast taxi (like most of the
weight on the wheels) through the touchdown point of the heavy and then
firewall it.
My theory is that
1) The 601 being a low wing (and not much wing either) is less
susceptable to wake than say a Cessna
2) The vortices immediately go away the as soon as the jet touches down
(a tailwind would make me more cautious)
3) The tower expects the little put put to take a while to take
off...Seeing as the 601 virtually leaps off the ground, the extra 15 to
20 seconds will not phase them.
4) I usually get a mid field departure out of Portland
International...If not I ask for it...Can't outclimb the jet in front of
you...:)
Thants been my approach for what its worth.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jeffglass@starband.net
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac crash at PAE
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jeffglass@starband.net>
Guys, here's my experience with "Tower" and clearances after a "heavy"
takes off or lands. I was flying out of Charlotte in a Cessna 175 at
close to gross weight of 2700 lbs. A 727 landed in front of me and the
tower immediately cleared me for take off. I told the tower I was going
to hold for at least 7 minutes. There was dead silence on their end,
They then repeated that I was cleared for immediate takeoff. I said no,
they sent me to the back of the line behind a few King-Airs, which was
OK with me. Got back to the head of the line and, damn, if here didn't
come another 727! Same sequence with the tower, except this time I held
my ground, waited my 7 minutes and took off. I'm sure it screwed up the
tower operations but I had just had a lecture and seen a video of wing
tip vorticies and the type of damage they can do to light aircraft. My
lesson? Stay away from large airports when they are busy. Had I gone
to a GA airport I would have been long gone with none of the hassles I
ended up getting into. And yes, I did get a call from the FAA asking me
about my actions. In the end, all was OK, the inspector said I had the
right to hold until I felt the runway was clear, but that I should have
used more prudence in picking where I was, when I was. And I now agree.
I had gone into Charlotte to prove to myself that I could handle a "BIG"
airport. I did. My instructor was proud, my wife was furious, and my
blood pressure had to go up 20 points! I won't do it again unless it's
an airport of last resort or an emergency. Oh, and to add insult to
injury, once off the ground I got vectored to every point on the map
except to where I wanted to go...
Jeff Glasserow
CH 601 HDS
N6384E (And by coincidence my old tail number was N6583E...)
DO NOT ARCHIVE!
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
> <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
>
> Joe,
> Many thanks for the details. If I'd gotten 3 minute clearance from
> the "experts" in the tower, I'd have gone too and undoubtedly would
have
> had the same sad outcome or worse. Well, now that won't happen for
me
> and probably for a few other would-have-been victims, thanks to your
> willingness to share your experience. Thanks again, and best luck
> with your insurance and building your new XL. Expertise you've
gained
> building the HDS should make the process faster.
>
> Keep us informed as to the outcome.
> Maybe some of us will be in your area at times and could lend a hand.
> Heck, maybe we could even have a fly-in!
>
> Bob Miller
>
>
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
Hello all,
Well got a couple of things to share. First I got a chance to fly an XL the other
day. What a nice little aircraft. I thought I should get a flight before
I bought the rest of the kit. Kent Bauer was kind enough to take me up. What
a great flight . I ordered the rest of the kit. I have some pictures and
more detailed impressions on my website.
Second, Measure twice cut once! Some lessons learned. I had some problems with
the predrilled skins on the horizontal stab. In my opinion the placement of
the end ribs is critical and should be specified on the drawings. What happened
is when I went to drill the skins I ended up with the rivet line very close
to the bend radius on the forward spar. It is still on the flat so it will
be ok. The caution here is to be very careful with the placement of the end
ribs if you have the predrilled skins. I have been corresponding with ZAC and
I think they may specify this on there drawings. I have the correspondence and
pics on my website.
http://www.geocities.com/archermj@swbell.net/Zodiachome.html
Cheers
Matt
XL
stab done working on the elevator
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac crash at PAE |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 1/6/2005 1:39:52 PM Mountain Standard Time,
drmiller@cvillepsychology.net writes:
>
> Joe,
> Many thanks for the details. If I'd gotten 3 minute clearance from the
> "experts" in the tower, I'd have gone too and undoubtedly would have had
> the same sad outcome or worse. Well, now that won't happen for me and
> probably for a few other would-have-been
Always remember, You are PIC and responsible for the safety of the
flight.There is not one case of a tower controller being injured or killed by wake
turbulance. it is always the pilot. Never forget that... If you don't feel
comfortable, tell them, even if it hurts their feelings....
Ben Haas N801BH
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