Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:02 AM - Re: 601 XL Proformance (Jake Reyna)
2. 06:33 AM - Re: first flight N601TD (Bob Miller)
3. 07:36 AM - Defrost fan (Bob Miller)
4. 07:53 AM - Re: first flight N601TD (Larry McFarland)
5. 09:09 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 01/15/05 (Fred or Sandy Hulen)
6. 09:39 AM - Re: first flight N601TD (Benford2@aol.com)
7. 09:40 AM - Re: first flight N601TD (Benford2@aol.com)
8. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: 601 XL Proformance (xl)
9. 12:52 PM - Re: CH701 Kit vs Plans (Scratch Built) (jnbolding1)
10. 02:26 PM - Re: first flight N601TD (Michel Therrien)
11. 03:23 PM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 01/15/05 (ron dewees)
12. 03:36 PM - Re: CH701 Kit vs Plans (Scratch Built) (Mark12365M@aol.com)
13. 04:58 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 01/15/05 (Grant Corriveau)
14. 05:03 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 01/15/05 (Grant Corriveau)
15. 05:18 PM - Re: speaking of engines was vw engines for ch 701 (scotty scotty)
16. 05:23 PM - Plans vs Kit vs Purchase (Dr. Perry Morrison)
17. 07:15 PM - Re: Plans vs Kit vs Purchase (Roger Roy)
18. 09:48 PM - Re: looking for a 701/801 test ride (Mike D'Ambrogia)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Proformance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jake Reyna" <jake@lockhart-tx.com>
Joe, thanks for the great information. I do have one more question regarding
airplane and flight testing. The pictures on your website show the airplane
without wheel fairings, was testing done as pictured?
Jake
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: first flight N601TD |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Ron,
Sounds like you built straight and true, light, balanced and clean. You
probably have one of the fastest HDSs out there. Congratulations! I can
hardly imagine how exciting that is, especially to have such an endorsement
from such an experienced test pilot. Thanks for keeping us posted.
Tailwinds to ya',
Bob
Do Not Archive
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Once again, Jeff Small has pointed out an important detail that I
overlooked. That little fan has a powerful magnet, and if located in the
vicinity of your compass will induce significant error. I spent a lot of
time fabricating a ducting system and air-redirection-switch-box, but now
realize the anticipated location of my fan would have been a problem, so am
having to rethink the plan!
Bob
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: first flight N601TD |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Congratulations Ron. Really pleased you've flown.
Sound like you've got a really fine plane. If you needed a test
pilot to precede you, it was the right thing to do.
Do keep us posted as you progress thru the test period.
Might even see you at ZAC Open House in August?
Way to go!
Larry McFarland
Subject: Zenith-List: first flight N601TD
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
>
> Hi Zodiac guys--
> Got my first flight in my newly licensed 601HDS/Jab 3300 this morning.
> I "cheated" and had a really good test pilot take the first flight
>
> Humble and Happy Ron DeWees
> N601TD (2.8 hours)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 01/15/05 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@comcast.net>
> Hi Zodiac guys--
> Got my first flight in my newly licensed 601HDS/Jab 3300 this morning.
> Ron DeWees
> N601TD (2.8 hours)
>
+++ Wow, I've been waiting to read those words....
HEY,.......HEARTY CONGRATULATIONS RON!!!!!
You've got my e-address, I'd love to see the take-off video.
Fred Hulen 180 hours in 3300 powered Zodie Rocket HDS
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: first flight N601TD |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 1/15/2005 8:25:08 PM Mountain Standard Time,
rdewees@mindspring.com writes:
>
> Hi Zodiac guys--
> Got my first flight in my newly licensed 601HDS/Jab 3300 this morning.
> I "cheated" and had a really good test pilot take the first flight
> earlier in the week so I had pretty good assurance I wouldn't go down in
> a ball of flames on my first flight.
> I'm sort of disorganized as I am still pumped up but will share a few
> impressions.
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: first flight N601TD |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 1/15/2005 8:25:08 PM Mountain Standard Time,
rdewees@mindspring.com writes:
>
> Hi Zodiac guys--
> Got my first flight in my newly licensed 601HDS/Jab 3300 this morning.
> I "cheated" and had a really good test pilot take the first flight
> earlier in the week so I had pretty good assurance I wouldn't go down in
> a ball of flames on my first flight.
> I'm sort of disorganized as I am still pumped up but will share a few
> impressions.
>
Congrats !!!!!!!!!!
Ben Haas N801BH
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Proformance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
The airplane was tested as pictured - no wheel fairings.
I was waiting until after the initial flight testing to install them.
But after my front wheel bearing and nose fork failures I've
decided to leave them off. I'd rather have a clear view of
the wheels during preflight than gain a few mph in cruise.
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005, Jake Reyna wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jake Reyna" <jake@lockhart-tx.com>
> Joe, thanks for the great information. I do have one more question regarding
> airplane and flight testing. The pictures on your website show the airplane
> without wheel fairings, was testing done as pictured?
>
> Jake
>
> do not archive
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Kit vs Plans (Scratch Built) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>> > I am considering the CH701 and was wondering what the real
world
>> difference
>> > is between building from the kit or scratch building. If I
decide to
>> > scratch build, I expect that I would use some kit components
like
>> > landing
>> > gear and firewall forward. What I am hoping to learn is the
difference
>> > in
>> > terms of dollars and time, with time being less important. I
have not
>> built
>> > an airplane before but am pretty mechanically inclined.
Thoughts are
>> > welcomed.
>> >
>> >
>> > Burke Johnson
Burke, You hit the jackpot!! Normally when this question is
raised the kit builders have a field day espousing the virtues of
building something thats almost half finished when it comes out of
the box (slight exageration).
This time we got a pretty well reasoned response,
My background includes a kit built (Glasairl) and a plans built
(RV3) I'm building a 701 from plans and keeping up, almost anyway,
with some of the kit builders. In 10 weeks I had the "kit" built,
with the exception of bending the gear and welding the mount. One
of the things I haven't seen addressed is wait time from Zenith on
parts screwed up by the builder (happens sometimes) or wrong out
of the box. If you are a plans builder you can rebend a new part
for almost nothing in the same time the kit builder can make out a
check and drive to the post office. I think the amount saved in $$
has been understated as my airframe will come in under $4K ready
for panel stuff, wheels, brakes and engine. Figure it up, the
basic airframe weighs 400#s plus or minus a little , aluminum
goes for less than $3 a pound plus 20% for waste.
The suggestion to scratch build a component , rudder or something,
and then evaluate is a good one. Either way thou it's a neat
flying airplane and worth building. LOW&SLOW John Bolding
Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: first flight N601TD |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Congragulations! This is a great moment!
Michel
--- ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees
> <rdewees@mindspring.com>
>
> Hi Zodiac guys--
> Got my first flight in my newly licensed 601HDS/Jab
> 3300 this morning.
> I "cheated" and had a really good test pilot take
> the first flight
> earlier in the week so I had pretty good assurance I
> wouldn't go down in
> a ball of flames on my first flight.
> I'm sort of disorganized as I am still pumped up
> but will share a few
> impressions.
>
> 1. Taildragger configuration is a pussycat in ground
> handling on takeoff
> and landing. Absolutely no problems at all. Wheel
> lands or three
> point. Plenty of rudder authority. Never used much
> at all....
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 01/15/05 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Thanks so much for the kind words. You and Jeff are my heroes and I've
just gotten a smooth ride after y'all leveled the road.
I will have the video in a couple of days and will send it to you
immediately!
Thanks SO SO much for your help.
Ron
Fred or Sandy Hulen wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@comcast.net>
>
>
>
>
>>Hi Zodiac guys--
>>Got my first flight in my newly licensed 601HDS/Jab 3300 this morning.
>>Ron DeWees
>>N601TD (2.8 hours)
>>
>>
>>
>
>+++ Wow, I've been waiting to read those words....
> HEY,.......HEARTY CONGRATULATIONS RON!!!!!
>
>You've got my e-address, I'd love to see the take-off video.
>
>Fred Hulen 180 hours in 3300 powered Zodie Rocket HDS
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Kit vs Plans (Scratch Built) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark12365M@aol.com
Does anyone have a set of wooden forms for a 601 (xl) that they might sell
or lend me?
I am working on the rudder kit and it is going too quickly.......I might
like to scratch build......maybe.......but the forms would make it
nicer..........email me
Mark Orth
_mark12365m@aol.com_ (mailto:mark12365m@aol.com)
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 01/15/05 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> but flawed vision of what happens if the cable breaks.
> Suppose the aircraft is on the ground, at a fly-in and the breakage occurs
> there. The so-called presence of mind doesn't work as fast as "I'm supposed
> to turn off the ignition".
Perhaps then the happy compromise is to have the throttle 'spring-loaded' to
full open, but not so much so that it will instantly pop to that position,
giving the pilot time to catch up. In flight the engine vibes will help
assure that the engine will smoothly accelerate to full 'on' mode... just a
thought.
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 01/15/05 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> While Dirk is correct the VW with redrive on B.J. Schwaller's plane DOES
> result in a heavier plane compared to the Rotax engine, all other things
> the same. It does NOT result in a nose heavy 701. In fact the Center of
> Gravity of B.J.s plane is almost EXACTLY the same as the 912 Rotax.
I believe that answer contained some other aerodynamic errors too, btw. A
heavier aircraft does not have a shorter glide ratio than a lighter one. It
will cover the same glide distance, just at a faster TAS. (assuming the wing
is being flown at the correct angle of attack for best glide)...
While, in the case of descent at a constant airspeed, a heavier airplane
actually glides further than a lighter one. The lighter aircraft must
descend more steeply to maintain that 'constant airspeed'... this difference
is usually minor in the weight ranges we're flying here, but with larger
aircraft with a much larger possible weight range, it is one of the factors
you'd need to consider in planing 'the perfect descent'.... and a glider
pilot in competition may carry ballast in order to increase his 'penetration
speed' i.e. the amount of time it takes to get from one updraft to the next
(but I'm not a glider pilot, so please correct me if I'm wrong).
fwiw
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: speaking of engines was vw engines for ch 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: scotty scotty <scotty245@yahoo.com>
Bob (and others intrested):
I'm about 3/4ths of the way to having a Hirth F30-100hp installed in my 701. After
checking, i wasn't able to find any info from previous installations of the
engine(Zenith, Hirth, or newsgroups). I recieved it in mid October from Recreation
Power in Ohio. They have been very helpful. So far: welded up an engine
mount, homebuilt alum cowling, currently building cooling air ducts, but
still have to mold a composite nose cone for front piece of cowling, and weld
exhaust brackets. The most challenging was deciding on exhaust layout, Hirth
has 3 options, but after Rec Power sent one of each, so no problem after that.
Hope this helps and i'll let everyone know about it after a few flights.
Scott
baileys <baileys@ktis.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "baileys"
Speaking engines has anybody considered installation one of the 2-stroke Hirth
engines?
Thanks,
Bob B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dirk Slabbert
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: vw engines for ch 701
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert"
Ok Mark, anytime, check my comments on Gary's mail, note there is a BIG difference
between glide ratio and ground effect!
Dirk.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Eagar
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: vw engines for ch 701
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Eagar"
Dirk, thanks for the feedback, that was very helpful. Great Planes Engines
shows a 80 hp 1900 cc engine but it must be hot rodded to get there. the
cooling problem would really be a challenge. I'll look at the Verner.
thanks again.
Mark
701
El Dorado Hills, California
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dirk Slabbert"
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: vw engines for ch 701
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert"
>
>
> Mark,
> Out here we have limited resources, so of course I had a look at this,
> comes out far too heavy at 210 lbs.
> Cooling is a big problem, you'll have to redesign the cowling, still then
> it does'nt work on a hot day.
> The VW is essentially a 60 hp engine for 210 lbs, in normal configuration,
> getting anything more out of it means hot rodding, and winding it up, this
> is where the cooling problems start.
>
> Do the hp/cyl capacity calculation, the Lyc 235 is 3850cc and 115 hp, if
> you apply this on a 2000cc vw you get 60 hp, if you want to stay anywhere
> near reliable.
> I'd go for the Lycoming any day, if you can live with the weight, for it
> is the same.
>
> In short, adding engine weight upsets your w/b and limits your payload,
> which cannot be rectified by adding weight rear, for you'll be over gross.
> See where the Rotax comes in? 80 hp for 146lbs installed, with the
> cooling sorted out, easy to see how Chris designed the 701 with this
> engine in mind.
> Have a look at the Verner 133m too, could be an alternative.
> Just some thoughts, hope it helps.
>
> Dirk
> 701
> Piketberg, South Africa
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Eagar
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 7:05 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: vw engines for ch 701
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Eagar"
>
> Hi, wondering if anyone has experience adapting a vw engine to the 701.
> how hard was it, etc.
>
> thanks
> Mark in El Dorado Hills, CA
> tail section complete, waiting on rest of kit.
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 16
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| Subject: | Plans vs Kit vs Purchase |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison" <perrymorrison@yahoo.com>
Having just been through a year long rebuild/modification process on a 601HD I
recommend people do a little self analysis before making the scratch/kit/buy built
decision. Ask yourself:
1. Do you spend a lot of time in the workshop/shed anyway? Do you continually think
of things to make/build for stuff around the house? Do you have other hobbies
which involve mechanical/fabrication skills?
2. When you build (anything) do you get a real sense of satisfaction from it? Do
you go back and look at it repeatedly? Do you show other people? Do enjoy thinking
of ways to make it even better?
3. Do you already have a reasonable collection of tools/machinery? Are you intrigued
by new tools/machines for sale? Do you have lots of technical information
in magazines,journals etc.
4. OR do you build/make things reluctantly, because it's cheaper. When you're finished
is it more a sense of relief than accomplishment? Do you look forward
more to USING the thing you're building than getting it "right"- just the way
you want it?
If you mostly answer "yes" to 1-3, then you most likely have the mechanical aptitude
and INTEREST required to build. After that, the issue is how much you like
building and how much flying. If spending time in the workshop is just as much
fun to you as flying, then maybe scratch building is for you. Otherwise I'd
say just get a kit.
If 4 is more like you then I would recommend purchasing a built plane. You're interested
in flying much more than the PROCESS of building.
As for me, I would never have gotten through this long rebuild/mod process without
the help of someone who has all of these builder qualities. I'm afraid I get
about as much satisfaction from closing the wings up again as finishing mowing
the world's longest lawn! I would much rather be flying and every rivet, hole
and bend has been an obstacle to that. Yet oddly enough, I will fix computers
and anything IT from "model T" computers up, and think nothing of days spent
configuring a network. That's fun for me. Different strokes
"Know thyself" is always worthwhile and before committing a really big slab of
your life and that of the people IN your life to something as big as building
a plane, I suggest you take a long hard look at the navel. It might save you a
lot of money, your marriage and maybe even your life!
Blue Skies
Perry Morrison
__________________________
Dr. Perry Morrison
Morrison Associates Pty Ltd
0408892638
perrymorrison@yahoo.com
__________________________
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Plans vs Kit vs Purchase |
Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 21:16:53 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
Very well put Perry, Cheers
RJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Perry Morrison" <perrymorrison@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Plans vs Kit vs Purchase
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison"
> <perrymorrison@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Having just been through a year long rebuild/modification process on a
> 601HD I recommend people do a little self analysis before making the
> scratch/kit/buy built decision. Ask yourself:
>
> 1. Do you spend a lot of time in the workshop/shed anyway? Do you
> continually think of things to make/build for stuff around the house? Do
> you have other hobbies which involve mechanical/fabrication skills?
>
> 2. When you build (anything) do you get a real sense of satisfaction from
> it? Do you go back and look at it repeatedly? Do you show other people? Do
> enjoy thinking of ways to make it even better?
>
> 3. Do you already have a reasonable collection of tools/machinery? Are you
> intrigued by new tools/machines for sale? Do you have lots of technical
> information in magazines,journals etc.
>
> 4. OR do you build/make things reluctantly, because it's cheaper. When
> you're finished is it more a sense of relief than accomplishment? Do you
> look forward more to USING the thing you're building than getting it
> "right"- just the way you want it?
>
> If you mostly answer "yes" to 1-3, then you most likely have the
> mechanical aptitude and INTEREST required to build. After that, the issue
> is how much you like building and how much flying. If spending time in the
> workshop is just as much fun to you as flying, then maybe scratch building
> is for you. Otherwise I'd say just get a kit.
>
> If 4 is more like you then I would recommend purchasing a built plane.
> You're interested in flying much more than the PROCESS of building.
>
> As for me, I would never have gotten through this long rebuild/mod process
> without the help of someone who has all of these builder qualities. I'm
> afraid I get about as much satisfaction from closing the wings up again as
> finishing mowing the world's longest lawn! I would much rather be flying
> and every rivet, hole and bend has been an obstacle to that. Yet oddly
> enough, I will fix computers and anything IT from "model T" computers up,
> and think nothing of days spent configuring a network. That's fun for me.
> Different strokes
>
> "Know thyself" is always worthwhile and before committing a really big
> slab of your life and that of the people IN your life to something as big
> as building a plane, I suggest you take a long hard look at the navel. It
> might save you a lot of money, your marriage and maybe even your life!
>
> Blue Skies
>
> Perry Morrison
>
>
> __________________________
> Dr. Perry Morrison
> Morrison Associates Pty Ltd
> 0408892638
> perrymorrison@yahoo.com
> __________________________
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | RE: looking for a 701/801 test ride |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike D'Ambrogia" <miked@jamagination.com>
Anybody? Any ideas?
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike D'Ambrogia [mailto:miked@jamagination.com]
Subject: looking for a 701/801 test ride
If anybody in the central CA area is open to giving me a test ride in a
701 or 801 I'd be a happy camper. Not looking for anything heroic, just
want to see how they fly prior to possible purchase. Happy to pay for
gas and seat time. I fly out of Columbia/O22 but willing to travel to
your location.
Thx
Mike
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