Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:56 AM - Kit selection (dsherburn)
2. 04:34 AM - Re: dent in skin repair? (Rick)
3. 04:39 AM - Re: Zodiac questions (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
4. 04:51 AM - Re: Sportsplanes 601XL sLSA program? (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
5. 05:48 AM - >Re: Zodiac questions (upnaway.1@netzero.com)
6. 06:00 AM - Re: >Re: Zodiac questions (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
7. 06:08 AM - Re: Zodiac questions (Larry McFarland)
8. 06:19 AM - Re: Kit selection (Larry McFarland)
9. 06:28 AM - Re: Zodiac questions (Cdngoose)
10. 07:01 AM - Re: 601XL flap torque tube long? (Mark Stauffer)
11. 07:02 AM - Re: 601XL flap torque tube long? (Mark Stauffer)
12. 07:06 AM - Re: Re: 601XL flap torque tube long? (Mark Stauffer)
13. 07:57 AM - Re: zodiac questions (louiscfi@comcast.net)
14. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: 601XL flap torque tube long? (Mark Stauffer)
15. 10:45 AM - Dimensions of standard instrument panel for 601 (Andr)
16. 11:11 AM - BRS parachute (Tebenkof@aol.com)
17. 11:42 AM - Registration without engine? (MElrod3732@aol.com)
18. 12:04 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/29/05 (Michael & Donna Heit)
19. 03:35 PM - Re: CH701 Kit vs Plans (Scratch Built) (Burke & Susan Johnson)
20. 03:54 PM - Re: Dimensions of standard instrument panel for 601 (Al Young)
21. 07:19 PM - Request for 601 panel dimensions (Andr)
22. 08:09 PM - Re: >Re: Zodiac questions (Gary Gower)
23. 08:58 PM - Re: >Re: Zodiac questions (Tebenkof@aol.com)
24. 10:26 PM - Stabilizer incidence (Jonathan)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
Can someone tell me if the Zodiac is now just available in the XL
version? I have the older info. pack that describes the XL, but also the
HD and HDS. I was interested in the HD, but I see it might not be
available anymore. I shot Zenith an email last week and haven't heard.
I've owned a 172 and a PA28-140, so I keep flipping back and forth
between the 701 and 601. I probably wouldn't take advantage of the STOL
charateristics of the 701, but I like the simplicity. It'll just be one person
flying 80% of the time from paved strips. For power, I'd probably use the
80 HP 912 or the Jab 2200. The XL is a beautiful plane, but
the additions have raised the cost a bit, etc. I looked like the HD was
a few thousand less, could be built and flown without flaps.
Just trying to decide.......thanks in advance!
Dan Sherburn
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: dent in skin repair? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick <n701rr@yahoo.com>
Florida is known for its sink holes. I have one in my left wing nose skin just
outboard of rib #4.
Bill of Georgia's technique is the one I am plamming to use as well....
Thanks Bill...I feel better now... ;>)
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Joe, sorry to hear about your dent. My XL sustained a couple dents from
drunken helpers. I tried to push out, but once aluminum is stretched it is almost
impossible. My fix was after the epoxy primer was shot I filled them with
Bondo, feather sanded them out and re-primed the place. No dents. I tried the
Feather-Lite product sold by Spruce, but it would never set up or sand out
correctly, Best of Luck, Bill of Georgia
Rick
Orlando, FL
http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html
---------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Nate:
Welcome to the list; you ask great questions.
Notably absent on your questions is your abilities and desires to BUILD.
Sure, we all love to fly...but how are you at the thought of building? I ask
this since I always knew I could build, but didn't possess the skill set to do
it.....until I went to the rudder workshop at the factory. The experience
was invaluable...and the demo ride will answer questions on how YOU fit in the
airplane.
Don't discount the center stick until you've tried it. I flew the demo for
a short while and the many listers agree it is very easy to become acclimated
to and greatly improves ingress & egress over dual sticks.
I'll leave other comments about weight and capacity to more experienced
builders and flyers on this list.
Good luck on your decision - sounds like you will be one happy XL owner soon.
Regards,
Tracy
601XL
tail 85%
Connecticut
do not archive
In a message dated 1/30/2005 2:29:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
upnaway.1@netzero.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "upnaway.1@netzero.com"
<upnaway.1@netzero.com>
I got the Zenith info pack in the mail yesterday. I have to say that I was
very impressed. All of my other "finalists" sent me packages ranging from
"so-so" to utterly pathetic. I thought I had narrowed it down to the XL or a
certain tube and fabric high wing that you all would know. Well after
receiving the single page brochure with terrible picture quality, no information,
and an order form for that aircraft, I read a letter to the editor in a
magazine saying that the company had shorted him an engine for years. I went
to
that "other company's" website and after seeing it I am leaning more toward
the 601XL. I can't find anybody that wants to trash Zenith. That tells me
they must be pretty good at service. Am I correct in assuming this? I do have
some questions about the heavy left wing, c.g., and empty weight. 1. What
is with the heavy left wing? Is this all light aircraft, or just Zodiacs? I
learned in a Warrior and never noticed a heavy left wing. 2. I weigh
250 lbs. I am down from 280 and want to get to 200, but suppose I don't.
If I load my flab and another heavyweight like me, I should have 100lbs
available for fuel (according to Zenith), or will I have the plane so far out
of
c.g. range as I burn fuel from the leading edge of the wing that it would be a
safety hazard? 3. And finally, how likely is it that I come up with a
700lb airplane? I have seen so many airplanes in the builder completion sections
of websites and magazines that weigh up to 200lbs heavier than the company
says it should. Now I understand that no 2 planes are going to weigh the
same. I can see differences like that if a company is using a 912S and the
builder hangs an I0-240 on his plane, but some of these are using the same
engines. I would like the 912S, or the Jab 3300, no gyro panel, a GPS, and
dual
sticks. I would like a pretty nice interior, but do not know about the
weight penalty. I always wanted to build a high wing 2 seater as my fir
st airplane ride was in a '46 Cessna 140, and I'd rather build a new classic
looking plane that will out perform a 140 cheaper. Now after looking at the
XL, I am reminded of the Globe Swift that my grandmother owned in the 50's.
I never flew in her plane, as it and my grandmothers license were long gone
by the time of my arrival. I sure love those pictures, though. It seems to
me a Zodiac could be as much fun as a Swift or an RV at a really reduced
price. Any help on answering these questions would be great. By the way, it was
nice to see builders whose planes, faces and names I recognized from this site
and Zenith's site on the DVD. I've watched until my wife can't stand it.
The info pack was well worth my money. I cannot find another company with the
same thing, period. It did a lot to sway me toward the XL. Sorry for the
long post, but once I get going on airplanes..........
Thanks,
Nate in Ok.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Sportsplanes 601XL sLSA program? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Alan:
I have a question for you - you realize "Your" sLSA Zodiac will primarily be
used for primary training which is very hard on any airplane. Can you look
at YOUR sLSA Zodiac as an investment and distance yourself from it....or will
you be looking at rental as a stepping stone to being exclusively yours at
some time ?? Would you want to own THAT aircraft after a number of years as a
primary trainer?
Think very hard about this one...I almost did it with a Piper at a local
school...and I am glad I didn't do it...for a great number of reasons.
Remember, the flight school needs YOUR capital investment to offer airplanes to
THIER customers - of course they think it's a great idea !!
In addition, YOU will just be another renter for YOUR eLSA when you want to
book it...it may not be available. Are you going to bump a paying customer?
Just some things to think about.
Happy Building
Tracy
601XL tail 85%
Connecticut
do not archive
In a message dated 1/30/2005 12:25:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,
high_bidr@yahoo.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: High Bidder <high_bidr@yahoo.com>
I am building a 601XL which when completed (2-3-4 yrs
from now?) will be WW Corvair powered and will use the
latest GRT or similar "glass cockpit" type
instrumentation that I can afford. But in the
meantime I am NOT flying!!!
I looked at the Sportsplanes.com website and found
they have a local "Regional Center" in my city
(Spokane, WA). One of their suggestions is I buy a
sLSA (Special LSA) 601XL Zodiac that is to be built in
GA, and lease it back to them for use as a training
plane. In theory, the income stream is supposed to
pay for my purchase, financing, insurance,
maintenance, etc. and may leave enough left over for
my flight training from them. This is somewhat
attractive (except for the $75K+ price tag), but if I
buy a SLSA plane, can I then in the future, after I
take it off lease for my exclusive private use, do the
maintenance and equipment upgrades myself? I know I
would at least have to take the 16 hour course to do
maintenance, but would I need to take the 120 hour
course too? Or is that extra training needed only if
I want to keep leasing the plane for training rental?
Anyone else looked in detail at this type of program,
with Sportsplanes or another company? Pros - cons?
Alan Lovchik
601XL tailfeathers done, working on wings
Corvair engine in a basket
__________________________________
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: >Re: Zodiac questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "upnaway.1@netzero.com" <upnaway.1@netzero.com>
Thank you for the response. I am a little unsure about building something so precise.
I live on a farm and fabricate little do-dads to make my life easier
all the time. I enjoy welding and building things but normally build things that
weigh hundreds of pounds (brush gaurd for truck, cattle guard for driveway,
gate to lock driveway, some tractor implements I dreamed up myself, etc). I
know that I can build, but don't get me wrong, I would gladly purchase a complete
airframe and just do the panel paint and interior to get in the air faster.
On the other hand, I have been increasingly drawn to the thought of building
over the past few years. Something about an accomplishment of flying something
I built really gets to me. The reason I want two sticks is because I have
been flying with a freind in a Champ and cannot get used to flying with the
"wrong hand." I am left handed, so maybe thats it. I also flew in a Pulsar
with a guy once who had a center stick. He always fl
ew from the right seat, said it was from years of instructing. I tried to fly
the center stick then too and didn't like it. I think it's mostly because I'm
left handed and thats how I learned. Again thank you.
Nate
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: >Re: Zodiac questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hi Nate:
Just one more thought: read and read again the builders guides on the
Zodiac web site. I had ZERO experience with sheet metal construction, let alone
aluminum before I started, and, like anything else, there is a learning curve.
You'll get it. Like the rudder instructions say..You're building a
Zodiac...NOT an F-16 !!! Precision is good, mistakes are bad, but build it !!
I made an error cutting the slots in the horizontal stabilizer...the blade
snagges the skin and i had a tear. I stop-drilled the tear, put a rivet in
the stop-drilled hole, and send photos off to the factory to be sure this was an
acceptable repair. It was....and it saved me a whole lot of $$$ and
frustration fabricating a new skin. This is the kind of support you get from
ZAC
and the good people on this list.
I cannot imagine how people built airplanes before the internet !!!!!
Happy building !
Tracy
601 XL tail 85%
Connecticut
do not archive
In a message dated 1/30/2005 8:49:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
upnaway.1@netzero.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "upnaway.1@netzero.com"
<upnaway.1@netzero.com>
Thank you for the response. I am a little unsure about building something
so precise. I live on a farm and fabricate little do-dads to make my life
easier all the time. I enjoy welding and building things but normally build
things that weigh hundreds of pounds (brush gaurd for truck, cattle guard for
driveway, gate to lock driveway, some tractor implements I dreamed up myself,
etc). I know that I can build, but don't get me wrong, I would gladly
purchase a complete airframe and just do the panel paint and interior to get in
the
air faster. On the other hand, I have been increasingly drawn to the
thought of building over the past few years. Something about an accomplishment
of
flying something I built really gets to me. The reason I want two sticks is
because I have been flying with a freind in a Champ and cannot get used to
flying with the "wrong hand." I am left handed, so maybe thats it. I also
flew in a Pulsar with a guy once who had a center stick. He always fl
ew from the right seat, said it was from years of instructing. I tried to
fly the center stick then too and didn't like it. I think it's mostly because
I'm left handed and thats how I learned. Again thank you.
Nate
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Nate,
These hopefully answer your Zodiac questions.
I can't find anybody that wants to trash Zenith. That tells me they must be
pretty good at service. Am I correct in assuming this? I do have some
questions about the heavy left wing, c.g., and empty weight.
Zenith will go a long way toward satisfying your needs. They're not
perfect, but very good people.
As a scratch builder, they treated me as well as a kit builder and worked
hard to answer my questions.
1. What is with the heavy left wing? Is this all light aircraft, or just
Zodiacs? I learned in a Warrior and never noticed a heavy left wing.
There's a whale of a difference between a Warrior and a Zenith. The lighter
weight Zenith 601 series sometimes is
so in-trim that the pilot provides the heavy left wing. My 601 is in
perfect trim with my 195 lbs, so I might be
out of trim when a passenger flys with me. Soon to find that out.
2. I weigh 250 lbs. will I have the plane so far out of c.g. range as I
burn fuel from the leading edge of the wing that it would be a safety
hazard?
No, but if you can, loose the weight, take your time and loose the weight.
It'll make a lot of decisions easier for you when you have to learn how to
get into the plane, what engine to hang, what fuel tanks you can use and
you'll
feel better about yourself. I was 235 once, but for the last 40 years
nearer 195. It's hard to loose weight, but building an aircraft is much
more difficult. Since new years eve, I've eaten three squares, no snacks,
no cookies
and no evening anything but coffee to just lose 10 lbs gained during the
holidays. Slow, but it works.
3. And finally, how likely is it that I come up with a 700lb airplane? It
seems to me a Zodiac could be as much fun as a Swift or an RV at a really
reduced price.
The Zodiac is a great little plane, very responsive and it's not hard to
keep the plane near 700. Mine's 730 empty
and gross is 1300.
The info pack was well worth my money. I cannot find another company with
the same thing, period. It did a lot to sway me toward the XL.
This site, the people on it have the best support and discourse on the
Zenith planes and are the reason I was able to complete mine this year.
You're right, the XL is probably the best bang for the dollar today.
Good luck,
Larry McFarland 601HDS Stratus Ram heads with pictures and journal @
www.macsmachine.com
Do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kit selection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Dan,
The XL is the mainstream Zenith now and I'm sure the kit is available.
It would be the best selection of the three for the average guy. Since
you've flown
the 172 and a PA-140 and are comfortable with that type of performance, I'd
recommend
you look closer to the Jabaru 3300 or a EA-81 Stratus Subaru, or the Corvair
engine. The 912 is
an expensive engine if you can't maintain it yourself. The 3300 is the
quickest of them.
The Stratus is the least costly and simple to maintain and the Corvair is
becoming
a popular item as is the Harley Davidson engine. I'd look closer at the
Harley Davidson
before making up my mind. It's also priced right.
Just an opinion of course,
Good luck,
Larry McFarland 601HDS w/Stratus Subaru at 50 hours at www.macsmachine.com
Do not archive
Subject: Zenith-List: Kit selection
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
>
> Can someone tell me if the Zodiac is now just available in the XL
> version? I have the older info. pack that describes the XL, but also the
> HD and HDS. I was interested in the HD, but I see it might not be
> available anymore. I shot Zenith an email last week and haven't heard.
>
> I've owned a 172 and a PA28-140, so I keep flipping back and forth
> between the 701 and 601. I probably wouldn't take advantage of the STOL
> charateristics of the 701, but I like the simplicity. It'll just be one
> person
> flying 80% of the time from paved strips. For power, I'd probably use the
> 80 HP 912 or the Jab 2200. The XL is a beautiful plane, but
> the additions have raised the cost a bit, etc. I looked like the HD was
> a few thousand less, could be built and flown without flaps.
>
> Just trying to decide.......thanks in advance!
>
> Dan Sherburn
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Zodiac questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Nate, I'm not going to go into details on your issues as others will but
you will not have too much of a problem with weight as most 601's tend
to come out in the 600lb range. As for the center stick, even being a
south paw you may not wish to dismiss it so quickly, unlike the cubby
your XL will not have the range of motion in the stick that your used to
the 601 is more of a pressure fly then a movement, in other words
instead of moving the stick to where you want to go and the plane
eventually following you all you tend to do is apply pressure to the
stick and the plane will respond instantly, plus getting in and out of a
Zodiac with center sticks will be quite a trick without singing soprano
at some point. The Zenith company you have already discovered are better
then most but one thing you really don't discover till your into your
project is that the Zenith Builders are the cream of the crop as far as
builders go. There are many many websites dedicated to the building of a
Zodiac and the 701, Even Zenith has a restricted builders section which
has photo layouts on how to build any part. But back to the builders,
the Matronics list is a valuable resource of information that seldom
ever sees dissention, unlike other lists that have unwanted posts every
second letter. Then there are builders websites which you may wish to
peruse, most can be found using the "Builders Links" page from
www.ch601.org which is another site dedicated to the idea's others have
incorporated into there planes. Two sites I would recommend right off
the top is Scott Laughlin's and Larry McFarland's and for more
information on some of the adventures you can have with your completed
Zodie Rocket check out Brent Battles website. These websites will give
you more reason to drag your wife in front of a screen. But tell her you
found them on your own I have already been slapped once upside the back
of the head at the Builders Dinner from a wife who blamed me for making
her husband an internet junkie.
Mark Townsend
Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L
Osprey 2 serial # 751
www.ch601.org
www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
upnaway.1@netzero.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac questions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "upnaway.1@netzero.com"
<upnaway.1@netzero.com>
I got the Zenith info pack in the mail yesterday. I have to say that I
was very impressed. All of my other "finalists" sent me packages
ranging from "so-so" to utterly pathetic. I thought I had narrowed it
down to the XL or a certain tube and fabric high wing that you all would
know. Well after receiving the single page brochure with terrible
picture quality, no information, and an order form for that aircraft, I
read a letter to the editor in a magazine saying that the company had
shorted him an engine for years. I went to that "other company's"
website and after seeing it I am leaning more toward the 601XL. I can't
find anybody that wants to trash Zenith. That tells me they must be
pretty good at service. Am I correct in assuming this? I do have some
questions about the heavy left wing, c.g., and empty weight. 1. What
is with the heavy left wing? Is this all light aircraft, or just
Zodiacs? I learned in a Warrior and never noticed a heavy left wing.
2. I weigh
250 lbs. I am down from 280 and want to get to 200, but suppose I
don't. If I load my flab and another heavyweight like me, I should have
100lbs available for fuel (according to Zenith), or will I have the
plane so far out of c.g. range as I burn fuel from the leading edge of
the wing that it would be a safety hazard? 3. And finally, how likely
is it that I come up with a 700lb airplane? I have seen so many
airplanes in the builder completion sections of websites and magazines
that weigh up to 200lbs heavier than the company says it should. Now I
understand that no 2 planes are going to weigh the same. I can see
differences like that if a company is using a 912S and the builder hangs
an I0-240 on his plane, but some of these are using the same engines. I
would like the 912S, or the Jab 3300, no gyro panel, a GPS, and dual
sticks. I would like a pretty nice interior, but do not know about the
weight penalty. I always wanted to build a high wing 2 seater as my fir
st airplane ride was in a '46 Cessna 140, and I'd rather build a new
classic looking plane that will out perform a 140 cheaper. Now after
looking at the XL, I am reminded of the Globe Swift that my grandmother
owned in the 50's. I never flew in her plane, as it and my grandmothers
license were long gone by the time of my arrival. I sure love those
pictures, though. It seems to me a Zodiac could be as much fun as a
Swift or an RV at a really reduced price. Any help on answering these
questions would be great. By the way, it was nice to see builders whose
planes, faces and names I recognized from this site and Zenith's site on
the DVD. I've watched until my wife can't stand it. The info pack was
well worth my money. I cannot find another company with the same thing,
period. It did a lot to sway me toward the XL. Sorry for the long post,
but once I get going on airplanes..........
Thanks,
Nate in Ok.
Message 10
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| Subject: | 601XL flap torque tube long? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
Mike,
Thanks for the response. I worked at it for about 45 minutes and it came out
just fine.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL flap torque tube long?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike" <wizard-24@juno.com>
> The problem seems to be that there are some burrs or welding
> "residue/bumps" inside 6B19-3 Flap Control Arm
Mine was like that too. I had to file down the weld to get it to fit
(doesn't take much filing).
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Now includes pop-up blocker!
Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!
Message 11
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| Subject: | 601XL flap torque tube long? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
Hi Bill,
Thanks for the response. I ended up filing the "slag" (?) or whatever you
call the residue from welding, inside the control arm tube. After working on
if for about 45 minutes it fit just fine.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill
Howerton
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL flap torque tube long?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
I can only report my experiences, but mine was the correct width. I used
the "extra" inside the flap control tubes/flap control arm inside the
aircraft to adjust the length to the width of my fuselage. Now I will tell
you that I did have to polish the flap control tubes to get them inside the
control arm all the way - perhaps that's the issue.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL flap torque tube long?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer"
> <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
>
> Fellow XL builders.
>
> I was fitting the flap torque tube to the fuselage last night and found
> that
> the whole assembly is too long (wider than the fuselage) by about 15 or so
> mm. The problem seems to be that there are some burrs or welding
> "residue/bumps" inside 6B19-3 Flap Control Arm where the arm was welded to
> the tube. Both the left and right Flap Control Tubes fit into the Flap
> Control Arm by about 1 1/8 inches.
>
> Should I:
> a. Work on filling down the "bumps"?
> b. Cut the Right Flap Control Tube (the long one) down by 15mm or whatever
> is necessary?
>
> I can't see any reason why the two tubes should have to meet inside the
> Flap
> Control Arm and I believe that 1 1/8" should be plenty of mating surface.
> I'm leaning towards just cutting the tube instead of risking goofing up
> the
> inside of the Control Arm. I guess I do need to watch the placement of the
> control arm from left to right to make sure it lines up fairly close
> inline
> with the flap motor arm. I may have to cut some from both Flap Control
> Tubes.
>
> Has anyone else had this problem? Am I missing something?
>
> As always thanks for your help.
>
> Mark Stauffer
>
> 601XL Working on fuselage
> Odenton, MD
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL flap torque tube long? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
Thanks Neil!
I ended up filing it all down and it works great. Now I'm working on making
sure the flap angle (and in turn the flap control arm) works out correctly.
I quickly mocked up a flap rib last night and wasn't getting the 27 degrees
that Zenith shows. I'll take a lot longer look at it today.
I may have more questions later today.
Again, thanks for all of your help. I'll have to buy you a drink of your
choice at Sun n Fun!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of nhulin
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL flap torque tube long?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
On Thu Jan 27 at 3:09 PM, Mark Stauffer (mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com)
wrote:
<snip>
I was fitting the flap torque tube to the fuselage last night and found that
the whole assembly is too long (wider than the fuselage) by about 15 or so
mm. The problem seems to be that there are some burrs or welding
"residue/bumps" inside 6B19-3 Flap Control Arm where the arm was welded to
the tube.
<snip>
Mark,
Mine had welding dag (an Oz expression) on the inside of the control arm
tube. I got a half round file and removed it in short order. The tubes are
the correct length to almost butt together in the middle of the control arm.
Check the total length of the tubes against the width of the fuselage and
the dimensions on 6-B-19.
..neil
601XL/Corvair
Message 13
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| Subject: | re: zodiac questions |
0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses
--> Zenith-List message posted by: louiscfi@comcast.net
AHHH the zodiac vs. anything else question. My friend, I went through the same
dilemma about a year ago. I know the aircraft type that you speak of. In my
opinion, there is just no comparison between it and the xl. Metal vs. fabric,
rock solid 130 mph cruise vs. much less, and, also imho, the ability to use
a very cheap corvair conversion vs. the requirement to use an expensive 912 or
other similar engine. Don't get me wrong, the 912 and expecially the jabiru
are great engines...man I love that all aluminum jab, but close to 20k firewall
fwd??? Come on...the corvair offers the same performance and reliability for
about 5k firewall fwd. Plus, I get to say that I built the airplane AND the
engine.
I decided to wait until after sun n fun last year to make the final decision.
I arrived in sunny florida ready to find my new airplane. I tried to find something
to compete w/ the xl. It had to cost no more than 30k, fly about 130 mph,
carry 2 200 lb people and a few hrs of fuel, I preferred all metal, but considered
other materials, take less than 1000 hrs to build, and I had to feel
relatively sure the factory would be around for years to come for support. Let
me know if you find a competitor, but I could not. Not a single airplane there
met all of these requirements. And by using the corvair I could meet that
price and have paint, interior, efis cockpit, all the goodies. Not a stripped
out base model.
I will leave the heavy wing, cg, and empty weight questions to others on this board.
As for the zenith company...I can't say enough. The info pack represents
how these people do business. They go above and beyond what I ever expected.
There is more on my website about zenith and william wynne and his corvair
authority.
Feel free to check out the website. Also feel free to contact me off list for
more detailed rambling about the zodiac and corvair engine.
--
Louis
601xl, corvair pwr
j-41 capt
CFII SMEL
HTTP://www.N601LV.com
AHHH the zodiac vs. anything else question. My friend, I went through the same
dilemma about a year ago. I know the aircraft type that you speak of. In my opinion,
there is just no comparison between it and the xl. Metal vs. fabric, rock
solid 130 mph cruise vs. much less, and, also imho, the ability to use a very
cheap corvair conversion vs. the requirement to use an expensive 912 or other
similar engine. Don't get me wrong, the 912 and expecially the jabiru are great
engines...man I love that all aluminum jab, but close to 20k firewall fwd???
Come on...the corvair offers the same performance and reliability for about
5k firewall fwd. Plus, I get to say that I built the airplane AND the engine.
I decided to wait until after sun n fun last year to make the final decision. I
arrived in sunny florida ready to find my new airplane. Itried to find something
to compete w/ the xl. It had to cost no more than 30k, fly about 130 mph,
carry 2 200 lb people and a few hrs of fuel, I preferred all metal, but considered
other materials, takeless than 1000 hrs to build, and I had to feel relatively
sure the factory would be around for years to come for support. Let me know
if you finda competitor, but I could not. Not a single airplane there met
all of these requirements. Andby using the corvair I could meet that price and
have paint, interior, efis cockpit, all the goodies. Not a stripped out base
model.
I will leave the heavy wing, cg, and empty weight questions to others on this board.
As for the zenith company...I can't say enough. The info pack represents
how these people do business. They go above and beyond what I ever expected.
There is more on my website about zenith and william wynne and his corvair authority.
Feel free to check out the website. Also feel free to contact me off list for more
detailed rambling about the zodiac and corvair engine.
--
Louis
601xl, corvair pwr
j-41 capt
CFII SMEL
HTTP://www.N601LV.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL flap torque tube long? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
Sorry to all for the last three posts. They were obviously meant for
individuals. I'll just have to pay more attention in the future.
Mark
Do Not Archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Dimensions of standard instrument panel for 601 |
From": "Andr\351" Kok <ndrkk@ya>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Andr" Kok <ndrkk@yahoo.com>
Greetings,
I've been lurking for quite some time, have scoured the web and browsed the
archives, but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. Could someone please
email me with the dimensions of the standard instrument panel for the 601? I'm
still in the dreaming stage for my airplane, but I'd like to play around with
different panel layouts. The free panel builder site (epanelbuilder.com) does
not work on my computer (Mac OS X). Even better would be a jpeg of the panel
with some sort of scale measurement.
Hopefully this time next year I'll be starting my project.
Thanks
Andre'
=====
---
ndrkk@yahoo.com -- http://www.geocities.com/ndrkk/
"Not everyone who thinks believes, since many think in order not to believe; but
everyone who believes thinks." - Augustine
---
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
Dear List experts,
Far be if from me to begin another debate over the merits of a ballistic
parachute. But - having decided I do want to install one - the question now is
how to buy it. Are there any deals out there anyone is aware of, or is the
factory price pretty much what you pay? Not that I want a black market parachute
as my last ditch backup or anything.
Once again, thanks for all the ideas and responses in the past, and for those
to yet to come.
Jim Greenough
701/Portland
Message 17
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| Subject: | Registration without engine? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MElrod3732@aol.com
Hi fellow builders: I am getting the paperwork in order to register my 701
with the FAA. It is about 50% complete. One of the forms required for
registration is AC Form 8050-88, Affidavit of Ownership for Amateur-built Aircraft.
On that form is a line for Engine Manufacturer, Model and Serial Number.
Although I plan on buying a Rotax 912S, I have not done so due to the engine
warranty being only 6 months after purchase (so I've been told).
Questions:
Do I need to own an engine to register my 701?
If not, what do I put on form 8050-88? Do I leave the engine line blank or
put in Rotax 912S without a serial number?
Thanks in advance, Mike Elrod
Do Not Archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/29/05 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael & Donna Heit" <rmrlpfm@centurytel.net>
Alan,
Do you live in Spokane? I live in Harrington, west of Spokane. [3WA2] I am
an A&P and would like to come take a look at your project some time. I am in
the process of acquiring a CH-801 from a fellow in Texas. If you are
interested in getting in touch, my contact info is below. Thanks, have a
great time building.
Email: rmrlpfm@centurytel.net
509-253-4758
Do not archive
(Spokane, WA).
Anyone else looked in detail at this type of program, with Sportsplanes or
another company?
Alan Lovchik
601XL tail feathers done, working on wings
Corvair engine in a basket
Michael Heit
http://www.rockymountainreliable.us
"You have never lived, till you have almost died. And for those who fight
for it, life has a flavor that the protected will never know."
Penned on a sign at a command post at Khe Sanh, RVN 1968
Message 19
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| Subject: | CH701 Kit vs Plans (Scratch Built) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Burke & Susan Johnson" <burkeandsusan@verizon.net>
I wanted to thank everyone for the feedback on this question. I am thinking
about the plans purchase and maybe trying the rudder from scratch. I am now
experimenting & practicing with some hardware store aluminum and pop rivets
just to get a feel for things.
Again, thanks for the help!
Rgds,
Burke Johnson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jnbolding1
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 Kit vs Plans (Scratch Built)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>> > I am considering the CH701 and was wondering what the real
world
>> difference
>> > is between building from the kit or scratch building. If I
decide to
>> > scratch build, I expect that I would use some kit components
like
>> > landing
>> > gear and firewall forward. What I am hoping to learn is the
difference
>> > in
>> > terms of dollars and time, with time being less important. I
have not
>> built
>> > an airplane before but am pretty mechanically inclined.
Thoughts are
>> > welcomed.
>> >
>> >
>> > Burke Johnson
Burke, You hit the jackpot!! Normally when this question is
raised the kit builders have a field day espousing the virtues of
building something thats almost half finished when it comes out of
the box (slight exageration).
This time we got a pretty well reasoned response,
My background includes a kit built (Glasairl) and a plans built
(RV3) I'm building a 701 from plans and keeping up, almost anyway,
with some of the kit builders. In 10 weeks I had the "kit" built,
with the exception of bending the gear and welding the mount. One
of the things I haven't seen addressed is wait time from Zenith on
parts screwed up by the builder (happens sometimes) or wrong out
of the box. If you are a plans builder you can rebend a new part
for almost nothing in the same time the kit builder can make out a
check and drive to the post office. I think the amount saved in $$
has been understated as my airframe will come in under $4K ready
for panel stuff, wheels, brakes and engine. Figure it up, the
basic airframe weighs 400#s plus or minus a little , aluminum
goes for less than $3 a pound plus 20% for waste.
The suggestion to scratch build a component , rudder or something,
and then evaluate is a good one. Either way thou it's a neat
flying airplane and worth building. LOW&SLOW John Bolding
Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Dimensions of standard instrument panel for 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Andy- Here goes on the 601 panel measurements.
Overall bottom length- 937mm
From center line to left and right of center--
126mm left and right- height is 228mm
226 left and right of center- 217mm high.
276 left and right of center- 205 mm high.
326 left and right of center- 187mm high
376 left and right of center- 160 mm high
426 left and right of center- 118mm high
446 left and right of center- 94mm high
and left and right ends - 62 mm high
Hope this helps
Al Young almost finished wiring- 601 XL
Message 21
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| Subject: | Request for 601 panel dimensions |
From": "Andr\351" Kok <ndrkk@ya>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Andr" Kok <ndrkk@yahoo.com>
To All,
Thanks for the great response. I'll be designing my panel in Illustrator on
with examples from a couple of bulders out there who did the same. I
appreciate your help in keeping my day dreams alive! :)
Thanks!
-Andre'
DO NOT ARCHIVE
=====
---
ndrkk@yahoo.com -- http://www.geocities.com/ndrkk/
"Not everyone who thinks believes, since many think in order not to believe; but
everyone who believes thinks." - Augustine
---
__________________________________
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: >Re: Zodiac questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello Nate,
I am also left handed, I havent found any diference in switching from the right
to the left seat in our plane (a 701).
One thing that I have learn though life (beeing a lefty) is that is your brain
that needs the training, remember we live in a right handed world. Even the
computers mouse we learn to handle it with the fingers in the "other" buttons
and keep the pointer traveling in the correct direction, then when we learned
this, here comes the laptops :-) :-) :-) ...
I have flown trikes (delta type), center sticks, Flying Flea and now with
the 701 with the center stick from the both seats... No problem if you pay atention
and practice. By the way, the center stick I found it great, for flying
and for getting in and out of the plane.
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
"upnaway.1@netzero.com" <upnaway.1@netzero.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "upnaway.1@netzero.com"
Thank you for the response. I am a little unsure about building something so precise.
I live on a farm and fabricate little do-dads to make my life easier all
the time. I enjoy welding and building things but normally build things that
weigh hundreds of pounds (brush gaurd for truck, cattle guard for driveway, gate
to lock driveway, some tractor implements I dreamed up myself, etc). I know
that I can build, but don't get me wrong, I would gladly purchase a complete
airframe and just do the panel paint and interior to get in the air faster. On
the other hand, I have been increasingly drawn to the thought of building over
the past few years. Something about an accomplishment of flying something I
built really gets to me. The reason I want two sticks is because I have been
flying with a freind in a Champ and cannot get used to flying with the "wrong
hand." I am left handed, so maybe thats it. I also flew in a Pulsar with a guy
once who had a center stick. He always fl
ew from the right seat, said it was from years of instructing. I tried to fly the
center stick then too and didn't like it. I think it's mostly because I'm left
handed and thats how I learned. Again thank you.
Nate
---------------------------------
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: >Re: Zodiac questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
Nate,
I too am left handed. My solution, though not yet to the flying stage, was
to flip a couple of things left to right and set up the right seat as the
primary pilot seat. It can still be flown from either seat, but the flap control
is moved to the right, the master brake cylinders are on on the right, and the
instruments (when I can afford them) will be arranged so they are most
convenient from the right. AS with any change the ripple effect cost more hours
of
work than I like to think about, but I could tell you what to anticipate.
Just one idea.
Jim Greenough
701/Portland OR
Message 24
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| Subject: | Stabilizer incidence |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan" <jonathan@entry.co.za>
Hi Listers,
Well I have finished my Stabilizer, and would like to attach it to the
fusalage.
According to the drawings, the top of the fusalage is the zero datum, and
the stab should be parallel to this, but how does one go about it?
Any suggestions will be appreciated. Mine 'looks' to be about 3mm up in the
front, and is this that critical?
Thnx
Jonathan Starke
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