Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:27 AM - 601 Models (was kit selection) (dsherburn)
2. 05:40 AM - Baggage Compartment Continued (N5SL)
3. 05:40 AM - Re: 601 Models (was kit selection) (Jeffrey Glasserow)
4. 06:32 AM - Zodiac Incident (N5JZ not N601RT) (kim.forest@surewest.net)
5. 07:10 AM - Re: 601 Models (was kit selection) (B Johnson)
6. 09:00 AM - Re: Zodiac questions (Phil Maxson)
7. 10:33 AM - Re: Re: 601 Models (was kit selection) (Jim Pellien)
8. 11:39 AM - Shipping charges (Mike H)
9. 11:52 AM - Rivets (James Sagerser)
10. 12:07 PM - Re: Shipping charges (N5SL)
11. 12:11 PM - Re: Rivets (Carlos Sa)
12. 12:17 PM - Re: Shipping charges (Lance Gingell)
13. 12:34 PM - cool stuff (Carlos Sa)
14. 12:59 PM - Re: cool stuff (ron wehba)
15. 01:38 PM - Re: Rivets (MJBTOL@aol.com)
16. 02:06 PM - Rivets (Clyde Barcus)
17. 02:17 PM - Continental 0200 (vwknott)
18. 02:41 PM - Re: Rivets (kevinbonds)
19. 02:41 PM - Re: Shipping charges (Mike Sinclair)
20. 02:45 PM - Re: Continental 0200 (jnbolding1)
21. 04:01 PM - Re: Continental 0200 (Monty Graves)
22. 04:11 PM - gearbox on rotax 912UL (rical26)
23. 04:24 PM - Re: Baggage Compartment Continued (Matt & Jo)
24. 04:46 PM - Randy Stouts Covair install (Monty Graves)
25. 04:47 PM - Re: Shipping charges (Chuck Deiterich)
26. 05:52 PM - Re: Shipping charges (Thilo Kind)
27. 06:12 PM - 912 gearbox (Zed Smith)
28. 06:14 PM - Re: Baggage Compartment Continued (N5SL)
29. 07:31 PM - Re: Continental 0200 (Larry Martin)
30. 07:38 PM - Re: Baggage Compartment Continued (Joemotis@aol.com)
31. 08:08 PM - Re: Rivets (Tony & Peggy Pierce)
32. 08:42 PM - Re: Randy Stouts Covair install (Randy Stout)
33. 09:26 PM - Re: Stabilizer incidence (Tebenkof@aol.com)
34. 11:20 PM - Re: Continental 0200 (Dirk Slabbert)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 601 Models (was kit selection) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
Thanks Phil,
That's the info! That's exactly what I was looking for. In looking at
the Zenith info., it seemed like they were moving away from the
HD/HDS models in favor of the XL, but nothing explicit was said.
I still do like the simpler HD design and the cost is a bit less. As you
mentioned, the XL can handle bigger engines but the "firewall forward"
package is a bit more money....the XL is roughly $5-6K more for the
kit and corresponding FF package. I was hoping to do an 80hp plane
and motor for about $25K. I could live with about a 90mph cruise...my
trips would mostly be solo and under 200 miles in length.
That being said, if the XL is "mainstream" there are probably advantages
in going that way. In as far as power, I'm undecided. I'm keeping an eye
on the Covair conversions. Other than that, perhaps a Jabiru.
Based on what you said (and what I was thinking), I'll probably bag the
701, Whereas it's a great plane-I really don't need a STOL aircraft. I
basically want a PA28-140 I can build, modify, and maintain (and fly).
Thanks for the info!
Phil Raker wrote:
Hello, Dan,
A number of people on this list have responded to your posting, but
none
seem to have directly answered your main question. I'll try.
At one time Chris Heintz had planned the 601 XL to be the replacement
model for both the HD and HDS. With the flaps, it stalls about as slow as
the
HD, and with the thinner airfoil, it cruises a bit faster than the HDS. It
was
also revised slightly to handle higher power (heavier) engines, and it has a
higher gross weight capability. The plan was that as soon as the XL was
firmly
established in the marketplace, the other 2 models would be dropped.
More recently, ZAC has said that they have scrapped those plans. The
XL
will continue as the main 601 model (the one they promote the most). At the
same time, the older models (HD & HDS) will continue in limited production
for
anyone who requests them, and support for the older models will continue
indefinitely. I don't think you'd go wrong in choosing any of the Zenith
planes.
The HD/HDS do have some advantages. The wing baggage lockers (standard
equipment on those models, optional on the XL) are larger than what you can
build on the XL, because of the thicker airfoil. Simpler wing construction:
no
flaps, and the HD is constant cord (all ribs are the same).
The XL has a main landing gear which is simpler to build and attach.
It
has a larger fuselage baggage area, and the higher gross weight. It also
has
the wider speed range (thinner airfoil with flaps).
On the question of 601 vs. 701, unless you need to get in & out of
100ft
strips, you probably don't need the 701. (That's why CH originally designed
the 701, he was living at a place where he had a very short landing strip
available to him.) The 601s will only take about 600ft of ground roll to
get
up or down, and they'll have a higher cruise. If you ever decide to
actually
go somewhere more than 50 miles away from home base, you'll probably
appreciate
being able to reach airspeeds above 80mph.
Cruise speeds have been discussed at length on this list. You may want
to
check the archives. It seems that most customer-built planes do not achieve
the cruise speeds published by ZAC. If you begin with the idea that a 701
will
only go about 70-80mph, an HD will go about 95-100mph, an HDS about
110-125mph,
and an XL ??? (I don't know). If that meets your intended mission profile,
then you'd probably be happy with the plane. A 701 will definitely be
slower
than a C-172 or PA28. The HDS or XL will have a similar cruise speeds to
the
spam-cans but using less power & fuel, the HD slightly slower. All the
Zeniths
will be much more responsive and fun to fly than any of those Jurassic
airplanes.
If I were making the decision now (the XL wasn't yet available when I
bought my kit), I'd probably go with the XL. I'd also probably do some more
thorough research before making the engine decision. Of course, you'll have
to
make your own decisions, and this advice is worth exactly what you paid for
it.
I hope this answers your original question.
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
Message 2
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| Subject: | Baggage Compartment Continued |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Good morning fellow builders:
Thank you for the input on my baggage hole modification. Last night I moved forward
on the project and took a few photos for your viewing pleasure.
Here's the cardboard with the hole cutout:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_31_05_Baggage3.jpg
I used the template to cut out some aluminum:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_31_05_Baggage.jpg
Here's a closeup of the corner after a bit of filing:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_31_05_Baggage2.jpg
I still need to cut out the shoulder harness slots and incorporate a handle that
will serve a dual purpose as a headset holder and also locate the existing rivet
holes on the bottom. The plug-in for the headsets will be incorporated in
this face plate. Some lights may be added to the panel also for cabin illumination.
Gary Boothe: You are going to have to help me out on the meaning of "Human Element
Range Extender." I'm a little slow this morning.
Gary Gower: I lost 20 lbs in 2004 with exercise and eating less in an effort to
keep my airplane light, but you are right, I need to watch the weight of things
I add to this project. As for the time, I enjoy every minute of it. If it
takes another 100 hours, that's another 100 happy hours of building. Thanks
for leaving off the second "S," although I often deserve it.
This is more fun when I have you guys to share it with. Thanks again for the good
input.
Scott Laughlin
N5SL (reserved)
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
601XL/Corvair
---------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | 601 Models (was kit selection) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow" <jeffglass@starband.net>
FYI,
Hog-air is offering a COMPLETELY BUILT, READY TO FLY 601XL with their 100 HP
engine, radio transponder and GPS for $48,000
custom built to your specs.
Jeff Glasserow
ch601 HDS
N6384E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of dsherburn
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Models (was kit selection)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
Thanks Phil,
That's the info! That's exactly what I was looking for. In looking at
the Zenith info., it seemed like they were moving away from the
HD/HDS models in favor of the XL, but nothing explicit was said.
I still do like the simpler HD design and the cost is a bit less. As you
mentioned, the XL can handle bigger engines but the "firewall forward"
package is a bit more money....the XL is roughly $5-6K more for the
kit and corresponding FF package. I was hoping to do an 80hp plane
and motor for about $25K. I could live with about a 90mph cruise...my
trips would mostly be solo and under 200 miles in length.
That being said, if the XL is "mainstream" there are probably advantages
in going that way. In as far as power, I'm undecided. I'm keeping an eye
on the Covair conversions. Other than that, perhaps a Jabiru.
Based on what you said (and what I was thinking), I'll probably bag the
701, Whereas it's a great plane-I really don't need a STOL aircraft. I
basically want a PA28-140 I can build, modify, and maintain (and fly).
Thanks for the info!
Phil Raker wrote:
Hello, Dan,
A number of people on this list have responded to your posting, but
none
seem to have directly answered your main question. I'll try.
At one time Chris Heintz had planned the 601 XL to be the replacement
model for both the HD and HDS. With the flaps, it stalls about as slow as
the
HD, and with the thinner airfoil, it cruises a bit faster than the HDS. It
was
also revised slightly to handle higher power (heavier) engines, and it has a
higher gross weight capability. The plan was that as soon as the XL was
firmly
established in the marketplace, the other 2 models would be dropped.
More recently, ZAC has said that they have scrapped those plans. The
XL
will continue as the main 601 model (the one they promote the most). At the
same time, the older models (HD & HDS) will continue in limited production
for
anyone who requests them, and support for the older models will continue
indefinitely. I don't think you'd go wrong in choosing any of the Zenith
planes.
The HD/HDS do have some advantages. The wing baggage lockers (standard
equipment on those models, optional on the XL) are larger than what you can
build on the XL, because of the thicker airfoil. Simpler wing construction:
no
flaps, and the HD is constant cord (all ribs are the same).
The XL has a main landing gear which is simpler to build and attach.
It
has a larger fuselage baggage area, and the higher gross weight. It also
has
the wider speed range (thinner airfoil with flaps).
On the question of 601 vs. 701, unless you need to get in & out of
100ft
strips, you probably don't need the 701. (That's why CH originally designed
the 701, he was living at a place where he had a very short landing strip
available to him.) The 601s will only take about 600ft of ground roll to
get
up or down, and they'll have a higher cruise. If you ever decide to
actually
go somewhere more than 50 miles away from home base, you'll probably
appreciate
being able to reach airspeeds above 80mph.
Cruise speeds have been discussed at length on this list. You may want
to
check the archives. It seems that most customer-built planes do not achieve
the cruise speeds published by ZAC. If you begin with the idea that a 701
will
only go about 70-80mph, an HD will go about 95-100mph, an HDS about
110-125mph,
and an XL ??? (I don't know). If that meets your intended mission profile,
then you'd probably be happy with the plane. A 701 will definitely be
slower
than a C-172 or PA28. The HDS or XL will have a similar cruise speeds to
the
spam-cans but using less power & fuel, the HD slightly slower. All the
Zeniths
will be much more responsive and fun to fly than any of those Jurassic
airplanes.
If I were making the decision now (the XL wasn't yet available when I
bought my kit), I'd probably go with the XL. I'd also probably do some more
thorough research before making the engine decision. Of course, you'll have
to
make your own decisions, and this advice is worth exactly what you paid for
it.
I hope this answers your original question.
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
Message 4
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| Subject: | Zodiac Incident (N5JZ not N601RT) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: kim.forest@surewest.net
In this business it is important to be "anal", but I prefer the term
"meticulous" (it just sounds better). And it is important to get the term
"Accident" vs. "Incident" correct.... According to those definitions, it
would have been an incident. N5JZ in New Smyrna Beach, FL was the one I'm
referring to. I remember the one involving N601RT.
I was interested to find out EXACTLY what happened and to know whether
these two "incidents" were somehow related (weak part, etc.). We have to
watch each other's backs....
Forest K., Rocklin, CA
Rudder 95% complete (back drilling skin to ribs and riveting Thursday)
N601FK (reserved) for CH601XL
Message 5
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| Subject: | 601 Models (was kit selection) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
Does he intend for his plane to meet the consensus standards??? If not, it
must be registered Experimental Exhibition with all the restrictions that
come with it.
If he does, more power to him, I have not seen the consensus standards but
supposedly, meeting them is no small task...
I know the Hog Air guy monitors this list, it'd be good to hear from him on
this subject.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Glasserow
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Models (was kit selection)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow"
<jeffglass@starband.net>
FYI,
Hog-air is offering a COMPLETELY BUILT, READY TO FLY 601XL with their 100 HP
engine, radio transponder and GPS for $48,000
custom built to your specs.
Jeff Glasserow
ch601 HDS
N6384E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of dsherburn
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Models (was kit selection)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
Thanks Phil,
That's the info! That's exactly what I was looking for. In looking at
the Zenith info., it seemed like they were moving away from the
HD/HDS models in favor of the XL, but nothing explicit was said.
I still do like the simpler HD design and the cost is a bit less. As you
mentioned, the XL can handle bigger engines but the "firewall forward"
package is a bit more money....the XL is roughly $5-6K more for the
kit and corresponding FF package. I was hoping to do an 80hp plane
and motor for about $25K. I could live with about a 90mph cruise...my
trips would mostly be solo and under 200 miles in length.
That being said, if the XL is "mainstream" there are probably advantages
in going that way. In as far as power, I'm undecided. I'm keeping an eye
on the Covair conversions. Other than that, perhaps a Jabiru.
Based on what you said (and what I was thinking), I'll probably bag the
701, Whereas it's a great plane-I really don't need a STOL aircraft. I
basically want a PA28-140 I can build, modify, and maintain (and fly).
Thanks for the info!
Phil Raker wrote:
Hello, Dan,
A number of people on this list have responded to your posting, but
none
seem to have directly answered your main question. I'll try.
At one time Chris Heintz had planned the 601 XL to be the replacement
model for both the HD and HDS. With the flaps, it stalls about as slow as
the
HD, and with the thinner airfoil, it cruises a bit faster than the HDS. It
was
also revised slightly to handle higher power (heavier) engines, and it has a
higher gross weight capability. The plan was that as soon as the XL was
firmly
established in the marketplace, the other 2 models would be dropped.
More recently, ZAC has said that they have scrapped those plans. The
XL
will continue as the main 601 model (the one they promote the most). At the
same time, the older models (HD & HDS) will continue in limited production
for
anyone who requests them, and support for the older models will continue
indefinitely. I don't think you'd go wrong in choosing any of the Zenith
planes.
The HD/HDS do have some advantages. The wing baggage lockers (standard
equipment on those models, optional on the XL) are larger than what you can
build on the XL, because of the thicker airfoil. Simpler wing construction:
no
flaps, and the HD is constant cord (all ribs are the same).
The XL has a main landing gear which is simpler to build and attach.
It
has a larger fuselage baggage area, and the higher gross weight. It also
has
the wider speed range (thinner airfoil with flaps).
On the question of 601 vs. 701, unless you need to get in & out of
100ft
strips, you probably don't need the 701. (That's why CH originally designed
the 701, he was living at a place where he had a very short landing strip
available to him.) The 601s will only take about 600ft of ground roll to
get
up or down, and they'll have a higher cruise. If you ever decide to
actually
go somewhere more than 50 miles away from home base, you'll probably
appreciate
being able to reach airspeeds above 80mph.
Cruise speeds have been discussed at length on this list. You may want
to
check the archives. It seems that most customer-built planes do not achieve
the cruise speeds published by ZAC. If you begin with the idea that a 701
will
only go about 70-80mph, an HD will go about 95-100mph, an HDS about
110-125mph,
and an XL ??? (I don't know). If that meets your intended mission profile,
then you'd probably be happy with the plane. A 701 will definitely be
slower
than a C-172 or PA28. The HDS or XL will have a similar cruise speeds to
the
spam-cans but using less power & fuel, the HD slightly slower. All the
Zeniths
will be much more responsive and fun to fly than any of those Jurassic
airplanes.
If I were making the decision now (the XL wasn't yet available when I
bought my kit), I'd probably go with the XL. I'd also probably do some more
thorough research before making the engine decision. Of course, you'll have
to
make your own decisions, and this advice is worth exactly what you paid for
it.
I hope this answers your original question.
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
Nate, You are NOT too heavy for an XL. I intend no offense to anyone, but
i'm a big guy and have flown with in William Wynne's XL with another bigger
guy with no problem. Over 500 pounds of people is not a problem. No
problem on the wing walks, no problem getting in an out (assuming normal
mobility of the person). This is just not an issue. If Gus and I were
going to a vacation destination, we probably couldn't take too many bags
though!
William Wynne does this all the time. Check out this web page, about half
way down the page:
http://www.flycorvair.com/601.html
The plane handled like a dream!
Phil Maxson
225 pounds of manhood
601XL/Corvair - installing panel
>From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac questions
>Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 23:08:59 EST
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
>Nate, No doubt, you are way too heavy for a XL.
<<SNIP>>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Models (was kit selection) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
Here are some of the operating limitations for aircraft, such as this Hog-Air 601XL,
that are
certified in the Experimental-Exhibition category:
1. Exhibition aircraft cannot be used in a for hire operation, (i.e. rented out
or passengers for
hire) .
2. The aircraft can only be flown to-from an event where the aircraft will be
on exhibition.
3. It can also be flown for aircrew proficiency training.
4. It can be flown to-from a maintenance facility.
5. If you decide you want to just go fly to a destination airport for fun (or
a $100 hamburger),
you need to notify the proper FSDO of your intention to operate out of the destination
airport.
Basically what it comes down to is that exhibition aircraft are OK if you wish
to confine yourself
to flying to and from exhibitions and air shows (hence the name). If you fly anyplace
else you
must notify the FSDO of the airport you plan to fly to. Not very handy to have
to do this all the
time. If you do not notify the correct FSDO, you are violating the Federal Aviation
Regulations.
If you are like most of us and want to own an aircraft that is flexible to fly
to most any airport,
then you need to look at either a standard aircraft (Cessna, Piper etc) or one
of the following
three:
- Experimental-Amateur Built (however you must build 51% or more of the aircraft
yourself). These
aircraft cannot be used for training or rental. You are listed as the builder
on the air
worthiness certificate and accept full liability for any design or fabrication
errors.
- E-LSA (Experimental LSA can be built to 95% or more by the manufacturer, but
you will have to
complete the final assembly of the aircraft and you are considered the manufacturer
on the air
worthiness certificate. Cannot be used for training or rental. As the manufactuter/builder
on the
Airworthiness Certificate, you accept liability for design or fabrication errors.
- S-LSA (Special LSA) This category of aircraft is completely built in the factory
and delivered to
the customer 100% completed and tested. The manufacturer is on the air worthiness
certificate and
accepts a bigger share of the risk in case of an accident if it can be attributed
to the design or
construction of the vehicle. Can be used for training or rental.
These three categories of aircraft are listed in order of: a) decreased liability
risk for the
owner and b) increasing cost to purchase or build.
I think the old adage: "You get what you pay for" is certainly applicable
here.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Region
SportsPlanes.com
703-851-9375
www.sportsplanes.com
jim@sportsplanes.com
----- Original Message -----
From: B Johnson
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Models (was kit selection)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
Does he intend for his plane to meet the consensus standards??? If not, it
must be registered Experimental Exhibition with all the restrictions that
come with it.
If he does, more power to him, I have not seen the consensus standards but
supposedly, meeting them is no small task...
I know the Hog Air guy monitors this list, it'd be good to hear from him on
this subject.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Glasserow
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Models (was kit selection)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow"
<jeffglass@starband.net>
FYI,
Hog-air is offering a COMPLETELY BUILT, READY TO FLY 601XL with their 100 HP
engine, radio transponder and GPS for $48,000
custom built to your specs.
Jeff Glasserow
ch601 HDS
N6384E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of dsherburn
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Models (was kit selection)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
Thanks Phil,
That's the info! That's exactly what I was looking for. In looking at
the Zenith info., it seemed like they were moving away from the
HD/HDS models in favor of the XL, but nothing explicit was said.
I still do like the simpler HD design and the cost is a bit less. As you
mentioned, the XL can handle bigger engines but the "firewall forward"
package is a bit more money....the XL is roughly $5-6K more for the
kit and corresponding FF package. I was hoping to do an 80hp plane
and motor for about $25K. I could live with about a 90mph cruise...my
trips would mostly be solo and under 200 miles in length.
That being said, if the XL is "mainstream" there are probably advantages
in going that way. In as far as power, I'm undecided. I'm keeping an eye
on the Covair conversions. Other than that, perhaps a Jabiru.
Based on what you said (and what I was thinking), I'll probably bag the
701, Whereas it's a great plane-I really don't need a STOL aircraft. I
basically want a PA28-140 I can build, modify, and maintain (and fly).
Thanks for the info!
Phil Raker wrote:
Hello, Dan,
A number of people on this list have responded to your posting, but
none
seem to have directly answered your main question. I'll try.
At one time Chris Heintz had planned the 601 XL to be the replacement
model for both the HD and HDS. With the flaps, it stalls about as slow as
the
HD, and with the thinner airfoil, it cruises a bit faster than the HDS. It
was
also revised slightly to handle higher power (heavier) engines, and it has a
higher gross weight capability. The plan was that as soon as the XL was
firmly
established in the marketplace, the other 2 models would be dropped.
More recently, ZAC has said that they have scrapped those plans. The
XL
will continue as the main 601 model (the one they promote the most). At the
same time, the older models (HD & HDS) will continue in limited production
for
anyone who requests them, and support for the older models will continue
indefinitely. I don't think you'd go wrong in choosing any of the Zenith
planes.
The HD/HDS do have some advantages. The wing baggage lockers (standard
equipment on those models, optional on the XL) are larger than what you can
build on the XL, because of the thicker airfoil. Simpler wing construction:
no
flaps, and the HD is constant cord (all ribs are the same).
The XL has a main landing gear which is simpler to build and attach.
It
has a larger fuselage baggage area, and the higher gross weight. It also
has
the wider speed range (thinner airfoil with flaps).
On the question of 601 vs. 701, unless you need to get in & out of
100ft
strips, you probably don't need the 701. (That's why CH originally designed
the 701, he was living at a place where he had a very short landing strip
available to him.) The 601s will only take about 600ft of ground roll to
get
up or down, and they'll have a higher cruise. If you ever decide to
actually
go somewhere more than 50 miles away from home base, you'll probably
appreciate
being able to reach airspeeds above 80mph.
Cruise speeds have been discussed at length on this list. You may want
to
check the archives. It seems that most customer-built planes do not achieve
the cruise speeds published by ZAC. If you begin with the idea that a 701
will
only go about 70-80mph, an HD will go about 95-100mph, an HDS about
110-125mph,
and an XL ??? (I don't know). If that meets your intended mission profile,
then you'd probably be happy with the plane. A 701 will definitely be
slower
than a C-172 or PA28. The HDS or XL will have a similar cruise speeds to
the
spam-cans but using less power & fuel, the HD slightly slower. All the
Zeniths
will be much more responsive and fun to fly than any of those Jurassic
airplanes.
If I were making the decision now (the XL wasn't yet available when I
bought my kit), I'd probably go with the XL. I'd also probably do some more
thorough research before making the engine decision. Of course, you'll have
to
make your own decisions, and this advice is worth exactly what you paid for
it.
I hope this answers your original question.
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
--
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Shipping charges |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H" <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
Will order the tail kit soon and was debating about having it shipped or just drive
the 5.5 hrs to Mexico, MO and pick it up. All I have is a mini van. Does
Zenith crate the aluminum for pick-up deliveries? If so, does anyone have the
crate size handy? If they do not crate it, are the pieces of the tail section
small enough to fit in a mini van? (this is for the xl)
Thanks for your help!
Michael
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: James Sagerser <alaskajim@cox.net>
Does anyone have a great place to order additional A-4 & A-6 pop rivets? How
about Stainless Steel too? Part numbers? Thanks in advance! Alaskajim
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping charges |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hi Mike:
It's well worth the drive. I drove six hours from Omaha, NE for the rudder class
on Jan. 30, 2003. I am 100% positive you could fit the tail in a mini van
(leave the bench seats at home). There is no need for a crate. Call Shirley
at ZAC and let her know you don't want it crated. They will load it for you while
you check the inventory to make sure everything is there.
If you really want the best bang for the buck, plan to pick it up during the rudder
workshop on the second day (that's when they do the demo rides weather permitting).
The next rudder workshop is Feb. 17th and 18th. After that it's March
17th and 18th. I bet they will let you hang around and watch as long as
you have time for. Be sure to let Roger or Nick know you are coming to make sure
they can work you in for a test ride. You won't mind the drive home after
the experience.
Scott Laughlin
N5SL (Reserved)
http://www.cooknwithgas.com
601XL/Corvair
Mike H <mhilderbrand@cox.net> wrote:
. All I have is a mini van.
---------------------------------
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
I used to source them from Textron:
Avdel Division of Textron Canada Ltd
87 Disco Road
Rexdale
Ontario M9W 1M3
Tel: +1 416 679 0622
Fax: +1 416 679 0678
Web: www.avdeltextron.ca
Email: rbevan@act.textron.com
However, we were told that the UK plant (long story about rivets from UK, see
ZAC web site) that manufactured these rivets closed,
and manufacturing was transferred to Asia, somewhere.
I sent a note to ZAC inquiring where they are sourcing the rivets these
days, but got no answer (several weeks ago).
I'd suggest you order your pop rivets from ZAC. That's what I intend to do
soon - and then I'll see if they will tell me where the rivets are coming from.
If you need part numbers, I suggest a search on the archives: my name + textron
as search arguments should take you there.
Carlos
--- James Sagerser <alaskajim@cox.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: James Sagerser <alaskajim@cox.net>
>
> Does anyone have a great place to order additional A-4 & A-6 pop rivets? How
> about Stainless Steel too? Part numbers? Thanks in advance! Alaskajim
Message 12
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| Subject: | Shipping charges |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
My tail kit came in a 9x3ft crate....the base of the crate made a great
size workbench (on 2 saw horses) for building the tail, flaps, ailerons,
firewall. Longest part was the horizontal stab skin I think ~9ft.
(I used the entire wing crate to build the wings & rear fuse)
..lance
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike H
Subject: Zenith-List: Shipping charges
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H" <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
Will order the tail kit soon and was debating about having it shipped or
just drive the 5.5 hrs to Mexico, MO and pick it up. All I have is a
mini van. Does Zenith crate the aluminum for pick-up deliveries? If so,
does anyone have the crate size handy? If they do not crate it, are
the pieces of the tail section small enough to fit in a mini van? (this
is for the xl)
Thanks for your help!
Michael
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, Listers
While scanning the Textron site, I came across this interesting "fastening device".
Take a look at this (looks like the threads in the nut are reversed in relation
to the screw, but
hopefuly it's just a drawing glitch)
http://www.textronfasteningsystems.com/aerospace/html/new/rnp.htm
Anybody seen / used one??
Carlos
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@cox.net>
looks like some texas A & M work!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: cool stuff
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> Hello, Listers
>
> While scanning the Textron site, I came across this interesting "fastening
> device".
> Take a look at this (looks like the threads in the nut are reversed in
> relation to the screw, but
> hopefuly it's just a drawing glitch)
>
> http://www.textronfasteningsystems.com/aerospace/html/new/rnp.htm
>
> Anybody seen / used one??
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: MJBTOL@aol.com
Hello Jim,
There are several companys listed in the archives that sell these rivets,
and also the part numbers you will need to order them.
http://www.matronics.com/archives Be carefull where you plan to use stainless rivets as they can
cause corrosion in the aluminum. I am pretty sure Zenith will not tell you where
they buy their rivets, they would just as soon sell them to you to make a
profit. Good luck.
Mike, 601 HD construction
on hold for the winter
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
FYI
I received the Zenair newsletter yesterday and in the "Memo from Chris," he confirmed
the Avex rivets are now manufactured in China. In the letter they also
state: We are in the process of setting up an extra test so that we can continue
guaranteeing the correct shear strength of the rivets Zenair and ZAC supply.
For those of you who are building from plans and drawings, you may want to order
the the rivets from us, or make a few tests if you buy the rivets somewhere
else. I'll provide you in the next newsletter with sketches to make an easy
test stand to assure you've got the right strenght on the Avex rivets you're
using to assemble your airplane.
Regards
Clyde Barcus
CH 601XL builder
Message 17
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| Subject: | Continental 0200 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "vwknott" <vwknott@cox.net>
HI 701 Builders
Has anyone put a Continental 0200 in a 701??
I like the no water lines,no oil lines no oil cooler, no water cooler
also no gear box and low engine rpms.
Has anyone tried it ???
Tail, flaps,slats done working on fuselage.
Vernon Knott in R. I.
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Thanks Clyde. Glad to see ZAC is following up on this for us!
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
>
> FYI
>
> I received the Zenair newsletter yesterday and in the "Memo from Chris,"
> he confirmed the Avex rivets are now manufactured in China. In the letter
> they also state: We are in the process of setting up an extra test so that
> we can continue guaranteeing the correct shear strength of the rivets
> Zenair and ZAC supply. For those of you who are building from plans and
> drawings, you may want to order the the rivets from us, or make a few
> tests if you buy the rivets somewhere else. I'll provide you in the next
> newsletter with sketches to make an easy test stand to assure you've got
> the right strenght on the Avex rivets you're using to assemble your
> airplane.
>
> Regards
>
> Clyde Barcus
> CH 601XL builder
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping charges |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
Mike H.
Just adding my 2 cents, I picked up a complete 701 kit, including the firewall
forward, engine, cowling, landing gear, and the only thing that had to ride on
top were the wing spars. This was with a Chevy Astro mini van. You don't need
the crating. The skins are rolled and everything else is wrapped up or boxed.
If you figure you just have to have that plywood for
something, save your money and pick it up at the local lumberyard later. I'm sure
a tail kit will fit!
Mike S.
Mike H wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H" <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
>
> Will order the tail kit soon and was debating about having it shipped or just
drive the 5.5 hrs to Mexico, MO and pick it up. All I have is a mini van. Does
Zenith crate the aluminum for pick-up deliveries? If so, does anyone have the
crate size handy? If they do not crate it, are the pieces of the tail section
small enough to fit in a mini van? (this is for the xl)
> Thanks for your help!
> Michael
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Continental 0200 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>HI 701 Builders
>Has anyone put a Continental 0200 in a 701??
> I like the no water lines,no oil lines no oil cooler, no water
cooler
>also no gear box and low engine rpms.
>Has anyone tried it ???
Yep several, If you look on the Zenith site under alternative
engines there is a pic of one on floats, or maybe its in the
amphib section,
You reduce the payload but there are pluses. There are several
renegades on this list installing the Corvair, same weight as the
0-200 LESS$$$LOW&SLOW John Bolding
Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Continental 0200 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
I think a father and son near Auruoa MO have them on their 701's. Zenith
could give you their contact info.. If you can't find them under buider web
pages for MO... I heard second had they are not happy with them. But that
could be anyting from prop problems to weight as John mentioned.... I
would sure try and talk to several builders using them before I commited to
using one.
Monty
At 04:38 PM 2/1/05 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>
>
>>HI 701 Builders
>>Has anyone put a Continental 0200 in a 701??
>> I like the no water lines,no oil lines no oil cooler, no water
>cooler
>>also no gear box and low engine rpms.
>>Has anyone tried it ???
>
>
>Yep several, If you look on the Zenith site under alternative
>engines there is a pic of one on floats, or maybe its in the
>amphib section,
>
>You reduce the payload but there are pluses. There are several
>renegades on this list installing the Corvair, same weight as the
>0-200 LESS$$$LOW&SLOW John Bolding
>
>Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | gearbox on rotax 912UL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "rical26" <rical26@rogers.com>
Hi,I noticed a little bit of play at the gearbox (max 1/8" at the end of prop blade)
moving prop from left to right!!! is it normal for the rotax gearbox?
regards
Richard
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage Compartment Continued |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
I like it. That really cleans up the design and should help stiffen the
bulkhead.
Cheers
Matt Archer
www.zodiacxl.com
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "N5SL" <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Baggage Compartment Continued
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
> Good morning fellow builders:
>
> Thank you for the input on my baggage hole modification. Last night I
> moved forward on the project and took a few photos for your viewing
> pleasure.
>
> Here's the cardboard with the hole cutout:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_31_05_Baggage3.jpg
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Randy Stouts Covair install |
0.00 FORGED_MUA_EUDORA Forged mail pretending to be from Eudora
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
Hey way to go Randy,
How about some speed numbers on the Vair?
7 hr trip should have given you some really good info. Not to mention you
feel comfortable enough with the new engine to make the trip
M
At 11:31 AM 1/28/05 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
>
>Scott
>
>You might someday appreciate the big hole. I flew my HD to Dallas last week
>(3,5 hr trip each way). I took my wife and dog. Dog in the right seat and
>wife in the baggage area. OOPS, that's wife in the right seat and dog in
>the baggage area. That big hole helped getting the wife, err, I mean dog
>back there. Also, don't forget that if you have head rests, they will cover
>part of the hole.
>
>Randy Stout
>n282rs"at"earthlink.net
>www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping charges |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
I put an entire 701 kit in my Dodge Grand Caravan (no fire wall forward
items though). No crate, Shirley just packed it in paper and boxes (back
seats removed). The wing spar fit between the front seats with about 2
inches to spare to close the rear door. Note the spars have a piece about
16" that is added to the tip later on. The rudder could have been fit in
also but I brought it home from the work shop earlier.
Chuck D.
N701TX
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "N5SL" <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Shipping charges
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Mike:
>
> It's well worth the drive. I drove six hours from Omaha, NE for the
rudder class on Jan. 30, 2003. I am 100% positive you could fit the tail in
a mini van (leave the bench seats at home). There is no need for a crate.
Call Shirley at ZAC and let her know you don't want it crated. They will
load it for you while you check the inventory to make sure everything is
there.
>
> If you really want the best bang for the buck, plan to pick it up during
the rudder workshop on the second day (that's when they do the demo rides
weather permitting). The next rudder workshop is Feb. 17th and 18th. After
that it's March 17th and 18th. I bet they will let you hang around and
watch as long as you have time for. Be sure to let Roger or Nick know you
are coming to make sure they can work you in for a test ride. You won't
mind the drive home after the experience.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> N5SL (Reserved)
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com
> 601XL/Corvair
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping charges |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi Mike,
when I started building my wife and I drove from Delaware all the way to
Mexico, MO and picked up the whole kit for the 601 HDS including completed
rudder (participated on the rudder workshop) minus the spar (was not ready
at the time of the pick-up). Transport vehicle was a Lumina Van.
Zenith was very helpful. They had prepared / packed all parts, so that they
would fit in the van. One of the folks came out on the Saturday morning,
helped me pack the van and answered patiently my hundreds of questions.
This is a great company.
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike H" <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Shipping charges
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H" <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
>
> Will order the tail kit soon and was debating about having it shipped or
just drive the 5.5 hrs to Mexico, MO and pick it up. All I have is a mini
van. Does Zenith crate the aluminum for pick-up deliveries? If so, does
anyone have the crate size handy? If they do not crate it, are the pieces
of the tail section small enough to fit in a mini van? (this is for the xl)
> Thanks for your help!
> Michael
>
>
Message 27
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
That movement is called "backlash" and is a direct result of slightly too much
lash in the forward direction.
This is more pronounced on multi-blade props as the measurement is cumlative and
increases with each revolution of the engine. Up side is that once airborne
this is the part of Newton's Law (Alfred E.) which allows you to establish Glide
Ratio, which was discussed last week.
Simple fix is to inject some Acme Backlash Remover in the vicinity of nearest beer
cooler.
Mine does same thing. Not going to worry about it
Zed/701/R912/90+%
Do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage Compartment Continued |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Thank you Matt. I have one last picture I took tonight after installing the facing.
It weighs almost nothing and is quite stiff now that it is riveted. Take
a look here:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/2_01_05_Baggage.jpg
The holes in the sides are for the shoulder belts.
Now I can start on my engine mount.
Have a good evening,
Scott Laughlin
N5SL (Reserved)
601XL/Corvair
Matt & Jo <archermj@swbell.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo"
I like it. That really cleans up the design and should help stiffen the
bulkhead.
Cheers
Matt Archer
www.zodiacxl.com
do not archive
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Continental 0200 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
Yep, a guy in Searcy, Arkansas did it. E-mail me and I will give you his
phone number. Do not Archive. Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "vwknott" <vwknott@cox.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Continental 0200
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "vwknott" <vwknott@cox.net>
>
> HI 701 Builders
> Has anyone put a Continental 0200 in a 701??
> I like the no water lines,no oil lines no oil cooler, no water cooler
> also no gear box and low engine rpms.
> Has anyone tried it ???
> Tail, flaps,slats done working on fuselage.
>
> Vernon Knott in R. I.
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage Compartment Continued |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
I agree also.
Looks good and definitely strengthens the bulkhead.
Joe Motis 601 XL
Do not archive
Message 31
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
The part number for A4 rivets is given in the front of the CH701 Photo
Assembly Guide. It is "1604-0412". This is the exact part number sold by
Aircraft Spruce with a nearly identical description. The price is $0.06 per
rivet. We ordered 500 and received a 10% discount, bring the cost to $27.00
plus shipping.
Tony Pierce
701, attaching the major components
----- Original Message -----
From: <MJBTOL@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: MJBTOL@aol.com
>
> Hello Jim,
> There are several companys listed in the archives that sell these rivets,
> and also the part numbers you will need to order them.
> http://www.matronics.com/archives Be carefull where you plan to use
> stainless rivets as they can
> cause corrosion in the aluminum. I am pretty sure Zenith will not tell you
> where
> they buy their rivets, they would just as soon sell them to you to make a
> profit. Good luck.
>
> Mike, 601 HD
> construction
> on hold for the winter
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Randy Stouts Covair install |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
What I've found is that the max speed varies with weight and balance. By
myself, (gross weight 1100) I can usually hit 110 mph. I pull back the
throttle to 2900 rpm and cruise at 107 mph. With the wife, dog, and a small
bag (gross 1300). it slows to 103 mph crusie. Remember that we are talking
about a HD and these numbers are about normal for a HD. I think it can do
better yet. My timing is only set to 25 BTDC. William recommends 32 BTDC.
As soon as I can get in contact with him, I'm going to see about getting
his recurved distributer.
Randy Stout
n282rs"at"earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
> [Original Message]
> From: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 2/1/05 6:45:57 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Randy Stouts Covair install0.00 FORGED_MUA_EUDORA
Forged mail pretending to be from Eudora
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>
> Hey way to go Randy,
>
> How about some speed numbers on the Vair?
>
> 7 hr trip should have given you some really good info. Not to mention you
> feel comfortable enough with the new engine to make the trip
>
> M
>
> At 11:31 AM 1/28/05 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
> >
> >Scott
> >
> >You might someday appreciate the big hole. I flew my HD to Dallas last
week
> >(3,5 hr trip each way). I took my wife and dog. Dog in the right seat
and
> >wife in the baggage area. OOPS, that's wife in the right seat and dog in
> >the baggage area. That big hole helped getting the wife, err, I mean dog
> >back there. Also, don't forget that if you have head rests, they will
cover
> >part of the hole.
> >
> >Randy Stout
> >n282rs"at"earthlink.net
> >www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
> >
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Stabilizer incidence |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
Jonathan
Regarding the stabilizer. My understanding is that on the 701 the level line
for the fuselage is from the front of the rear fuselage (rear wing attach
point) to the aft end of the upper longeron. Because the longerons curve
slightly I used a water level between the two points, rather than a long level
on top
of the longeron. Then a short level on the top of the stabilizer gets that
level to match.
If you think your stabilizer is a little high in front I would check the
height above the fuselage first. If I recall that is called out at135mm. Then
adjust front or back of the stabilizer accordingly.
Hope this helps rather than confuses. Also hope I did it right.
Jim Greenough
701 in Portland
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Continental 0200 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert@telkomsa.net>
Vernon, I had a look at this too, decided against.
Reason be the weight, with the complications this brings.
Engine out on a nose heavy plane is serious business, you'll have to maintain a
much higher approach speed, steeper glide angle, 2 up is even worse.
Cg problems : if you try to correct this by moving the engine closer to the firewall
you are shortening the design lenth of the aircraft, which in turn changes
the neutral point to who knows where.
Now you have no way to calculate the static margin, this means the plane may have
some bad habits, you dont want to find this out on a hot day and a short runway.
Looking at the nose gear I would hesitate to use a heavier engine, perhaps if you
fly from paved runways, but this defies the meaning of the 701.
Payload : just about nothing, if you take full feul, forget long range tanks, remember
you want a usefull, forgiving plane in the end, for chances are you'll
be in and out of tight places, this is what the 701 was designed for.
Also check the discussion a while ago re. VW engines in a 701, the same applies.
Good advise would be to stick to the design weights, keep the engine light as possible.
Yup, you're right, I found this out the hard way, a 180 in a Cub.
Hope this helps.
Dirk.
----- Original Message -----
From: vwknott
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 12:22 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Continental 0200
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "vwknott" <vwknott@cox.net>
HI 701 Builders
Has anyone put a Continental 0200 in a 701??
I like the no water lines,no oil lines no oil cooler, no water cooler
also no gear box and low engine rpms.
Has anyone tried it ???
Tail, flaps,slats done working on fuselage.
Vernon Knott in R. I.
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