Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:26 AM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle)
2. 05:02 AM - Shipping Charges (The Minearts)
3. 05:43 AM - Taildragger weight? (upnaway.1@netzero.com)
4. 07:38 AM - ZAC (Carlos Sa)
5. 07:52 AM - Baggage shelf (Grant Corriveau)
6. 08:13 AM - Re: Baggage shelf (N5SL)
7. 08:33 AM - Re: New CH701.com facelift (RURUNY@aol.com)
8. 09:57 AM - Re: Rivets (MJBTOL@aol.com)
9. 09:59 AM - Re: Randy Stouts Covair install (Monty Graves)
10. 10:13 AM - loud turn bank (Jack Russell)
11. 10:40 AM - Re: Baggage shelf (Jeffrey J Paris)
12. 11:10 AM - Re: Randy Stouts Covair install (Jean-Paul Roy)
13. 11:12 AM - Re: Randy Stouts Covair install (Randy Stout)
14. 11:19 AM - Re: loud turn bank (Bryan Martin)
15. 12:08 PM - Re: Taildragger weight? (Phil Maxson)
16. 12:08 PM - Re: Turn & Bank & Noise (Zed Smith)
17. 12:56 PM - Re: Turn & Bank Noise (Zed Smith)
18. 02:54 PM - Re: Baggage shelf (cgalley)
19. 03:44 PM - Re: Taildragger weight? (Capetonian)
20. 04:16 PM - Re: Size VW for the 701 (Monty Graves)
21. 04:36 PM - Re: Re: Size VW for the 701 0.00 FORGED_MUA_EUDORA Forged mail pretending to be from Eudora (Jean-Paul Roy)
22. 04:40 PM - Re: Re: Size VW for the 701 (Randy Stout)
23. 05:22 PM - Rivets (Clyde Barcus)
24. 06:48 PM - Shipping charges (Thanks Guys!) (Mike H)
25. 07:04 PM - Re: Re: Turn & Bank Noise (Jack Russell)
26. 07:30 PM - Re: Re: Turn & Bank Noise (Jon Croke)
27. 10:04 PM - Re: Continental 0200 (Jim Frisby)
28. 10:42 PM - Re: Re: 601 Models (was kit selection) (Brett)
29. 10:44 PM - Re: COM static on 123.05 (xl)
30. 11:58 PM - Re: ZAC (Richard McLachlan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Lister,
Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
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requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
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that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
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easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
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quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
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- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
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agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
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- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
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- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Message 2
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| Subject: | Shipping Charges |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Minearts" <smineart@kdsi.net>
I live about 3.5 hours' drive from ZAC, and have picked up all my sub-kits, with
only the canopy left to pick up. A minivan will handle everything except the
wing spars. You will save on crating charges as well as freight. The long
skins can be rolled to fit inside. I took my brother-in-law along with his trailer
to get the wing kit, but could have carried the wing spars on a roof rack.
I enjoy making a day of it, and hanging out at the factory a while in the
process.
Steve, 601XL/corvair, wings & tail done, fuse-85%
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Taildragger weight? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "upnaway.1@netzero.com" <upnaway.1@netzero.com>
I just read on flycorvair.com (one of my faves) that a tail dragging XL weighs
more than a trike. Can anyone tell me why? Is there more strengthening needed
in the tail for the tailwheel? If so does it effect c.g.? I think the tailwheel,
especially William Wynne's, XL is one of the best looking planes there
is.
Nate
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
As traffic is light, and I'm "unbusy", here is some feedback that new subscribers
- specialy those
still undecided about which project to take.
I'm building a CH601 from scratch, and will probably install the dual sticks option
provided by
ZAC - I already acquired the plans.
While studying the drawings, I noticed that the XL front bearing plate (6B17-1)
is different from
the HD's.
I then wrote to ZAC, explained the situation and asked for the dimentions on that
part.
Twenty-four hours later I received an email from ZAC with a scanned picture of
the part and a link
to the XL building manual.
(I also posted the question on this list, and Neil Hulin beat ZAC by 12 h - thanks
once again,
Neil).
As you see, ZAC is pretty darn good. Not perfect, but pretty darn good.
Happy building
Carlos
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
...
> Thank you for the input on my baggage hole modification. Last night I moved
> forward
> on the project and took a few photos for your viewing pleasure.
Another 2 cents worth:
When I'm strapped into my seat, and I need to reach into the back shelf /
baggage hold to get something, my right arm has to swing up and over the top
of the seat back, and my elbow needs to raise up to the shelf level and
swing in behind my own seat -- (if you an picture this)... For this reason
I've delayed installing headrests on my seatbacks as I believe they would
make it even more awkward to reach back there.
You should test out this mod while strapped in, taking into account the
seatbelt, seatback, canopy close overhead, etc... It may at least cause you
to modify the dimensions and location of the opening you cut.
fwiw
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage shelf |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Thanks Grant:
I actually sat in the airplane for the first time last night to figure out where
the seat belt holes should go. I've got some snips, a few files and a dremel
tool and if need-be I'll do some more cutting, but it seemed to work OK last
night. I look forward to the day I can be flying like you are and report back
how everything works!
One note about the baggage area - I plan to install a BRS canister back there so
I'll be losing a lot of that space toward the back.
Scott Laughlin
N5SL (Reserved)
601XL/Corvair
www.cooknwithgas.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> wrote:
When I'm strapped into my seat, and I need to reach into the back shelf /
baggage hold to get something, my right arm has to swing up and over the top
of the seat back,
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New CH701.com facelift |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com
Jon and Mark,
The site looks great, I visit there often. Always looking for somthing new to see.
I hope to contribute soon with some of my own building experiences.
Brian 701
Do Not Archive
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: MJBTOL@aol.com
And the part # for the A5's is 01606-00514
Regards,
Mike do not archive ( It's
already there )
Message 9
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| Subject: | Randy Stouts Covair install |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
Sounds like your happy with the change over from the VW with redrive it
appears you gained about 15mph cruise with the switch. But still below the
120 mph claim from ZAC.
How about engine cooling? Oil Temps? CHT's etc,
And what prop length and pitch did you end up with.
Although I am not building the 601, a couple of local guys are, and they
are still considering the VW with redrive. I am trying quietly to get them
to reconsider using it on the 601. Although I still think it "might" be a
good choice for the 701,
Monty
At 10:27 PM 2/1/05 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
>
>What I've found is that the max speed varies with weight and balance. By
>myself, (gross weight 1100) I can usually hit 110 mph. I pull back the
>throttle to 2900 rpm and cruise at 107 mph. With the wife, dog, and a small
>bag (gross 1300). it slows to 103 mph crusie. Remember that we are talking
>about a HD and these numbers are about normal for a HD. I think it can do
>better yet. My timing is only set to 25 BTDC. William recommends 32 BTDC.
>As soon as I can get in contact with him, I'm going to see about getting
>his recurved distributer.
>
>Randy Stout
>n282rs"at"earthlink.net
>www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 2/1/05 6:45:57 PM
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Randy Stouts Covair install0.00 FORGED_MUA_EUDORA
>Forged mail pretending to be from Eudora
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>>
>> Hey way to go Randy,
>>
>> How about some speed numbers on the Vair?
>>
>> 7 hr trip should have given you some really good info. Not to mention you
>> feel comfortable enough with the new engine to make the trip
>>
>> M
>>
>> At 11:31 AM 1/28/05 -0600, you wrote:
>> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
>> >
>> >Scott
>> >
>> >You might someday appreciate the big hole. I flew my HD to Dallas last
>week
>> >(3,5 hr trip each way). I took my wife and dog. Dog in the right seat
>and
>> >wife in the baggage area. OOPS, that's wife in the right seat and dog in
>> >the baggage area. That big hole helped getting the wife, err, I mean dog
>> >back there. Also, don't forget that if you have head rests, they will
>cover
>> >part of the hole.
>> >
>> >Randy Stout
>> >n282rs"at"earthlink.net
>> >www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Howdy: I hit one of those frustrating things that causes you to stop building for
a couple of days and it is time to get back to it. The problem is the turn
bank. Installed a new sigtronics 200s(sweet stereo intercom) and everything
was quiet on the western front. Then the Icom 200a went in and when I turn on
the radio I can hear the turn bank spinning up. It gets really loud in the headset.
I can touch the back of the turn bank and the noise leaves for a while
but returns. I did run a separate ground from the back of the instrument direct
to the battery but no change. I tried a separate battery to the t/b (not practical
but I thought it would be a good test) and that will work until I push
the transmit on the yoke and the noise appears. I have even wrapped the t/b in
foil. I did not try the radio shack filter yet but I don't think it will work
since the separate battery didn't.
I really wanted to to the dynon(solid state) instead of the t/b but my checkbook
is just about dry. Any Ideas? Thanks in advance
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage shelf |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
Scott,
I was really psyched to seee your mod for the baggage area! I think it really
spruces and tidies up that part of the XL. My Dad and I start tomorrow with the
mod. Thanks for the pictures and the idea.
Sincerely,
Jeff and Peter Paris
Jab3300 CH601XL
90% there, 90% to go
--- On Wed 02/02, N5SL < nfivesl@yahoo.com > wrote:
From: N5SL [mailto: nfivesl@yahoo.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Baggage shelf
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Thanks Grant:
I actually sat in the airplane for the first time last night to figure out where
the seat belt holes should go. I've got some snips, a few files and a dremel
tool and if need-be I'll do some more cutting, but it seemed to work OK last
night. I look forward to the day I can be flying like you are and report back
how everything works!
One note about the baggage area - I plan to install a BRS canister back there so
I'll be losing a lot of that space toward the back.
Scott Laughlin
N5SL (Reserved)
601XL/Corvair
www.cooknwithgas.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> wrote:
When I'm strapped into my seat, and I need to reach into the back shelf /
baggage hold to get something, my right arm has to swing up and over the top
of the seat back,
---------------------------------
===========================================================
.matronics.com/zenith-list
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Randy Stouts Covair install |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@sympatico.ca>
Hello Monty,
what size of a VW do you think would be suitable for the 701?
Regards
Jean-Paul Roy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Monty Graves" <mgraves@usmo.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Randy Stouts Covair install
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>
> Sounds like your happy with the change over from the VW with redrive it
> appears you gained about 15mph cruise with the switch. But still below
the
> 120 mph claim from ZAC.
>
> How about engine cooling? Oil Temps? CHT's etc,
>
> And what prop length and pitch did you end up with.
>
> Although I am not building the 601, a couple of local guys are, and they
> are still considering the VW with redrive. I am trying quietly to get
them
> to reconsider using it on the 601. Although I still think it "might" be a
> good choice for the 701,
>
> Monty
>
>
> At 10:27 PM 2/1/05 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
> >
> >What I've found is that the max speed varies with weight and balance. By
> >myself, (gross weight 1100) I can usually hit 110 mph. I pull back the
> >throttle to 2900 rpm and cruise at 107 mph. With the wife, dog, and a
small
> >bag (gross 1300). it slows to 103 mph crusie. Remember that we are
talking
> >about a HD and these numbers are about normal for a HD. I think it can do
> >better yet. My timing is only set to 25 BTDC. William recommends 32 BTDC.
> >As soon as I can get in contact with him, I'm going to see about getting
> >his recurved distributer.
> >
> >Randy Stout
> >n282rs"at"earthlink.net
> >www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
> >> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> >> Date: 2/1/05 6:45:57 PM
> >> Subject: Zenith-List: Randy Stouts Covair install0.00 FORGED_MUA_EUDORA
> >Forged mail pretending to be from Eudora
> >>
> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
> >>
> >> Hey way to go Randy,
> >>
> >> How about some speed numbers on the Vair?
> >>
> >> 7 hr trip should have given you some really good info. Not to mention
you
> >> feel comfortable enough with the new engine to make the trip
> >>
> >> M
> >>
> >> At 11:31 AM 1/28/05 -0600, you wrote:
> >> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout"
<n282rs@earthlink.net>
> >> >
> >> >Scott
> >> >
> >> >You might someday appreciate the big hole. I flew my HD to Dallas last
> >week
> >> >(3,5 hr trip each way). I took my wife and dog. Dog in the right seat
> >and
> >> >wife in the baggage area. OOPS, that's wife in the right seat and dog
in
> >> >the baggage area. That big hole helped getting the wife, err, I mean
dog
> >> >back there. Also, don't forget that if you have head rests, they will
> >cover
> >> >part of the hole.
> >> >
> >> >Randy Stout
> >> >n282rs"at"earthlink.net
> >> >www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Randy Stouts Covair install |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
I'm much happier with the Corvair. I think the only person who would be
happy with a VW on a 601 is someone who wants a STOL 601. You are going to
trade speed for initial climb. The VW wanted to take off before I was
ready. The Corvair has to get going a bit before it will take off.
My prop is a 64" Warp Drive. William say to use a 66", but I think the 64"
is too close to the ground so there was no way I was going with a 66". I
found out that the XL's have a ring welded to the nose gear to limit
travel. Mine don't. Maybe that's why he says to use a 66". The pitch is
currently set to 9 degrees measured from the tip. I'm hoping that I can
increase it to 10 after the distributor change.
Temperatures on the Corvair: CHT's usually stay somewhere between 325 and
375. They've been the same no matter which plug I put the sensor under. The
left side is within a couple of degrees of the right. Oil temp has been a
bit of an issue, but that was because of the way I was trying to cool it. I
now have the cooler mounted to the lower cowl with a blast tube blowing on
it. On a long extended climb, it will approach 250, but comes back down to
210-220 in cruise.
Randy Stout
n282rs"at"earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
> [Original Message]
> From: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 2/2/05 11:58:38 AM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Randy Stouts Covair install
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>
> Sounds like your happy with the change over from the VW with redrive it
> appears you gained about 15mph cruise with the switch. But still below
the
> 120 mph claim from ZAC.
>
> How about engine cooling? Oil Temps? CHT's etc,
>
> And what prop length and pitch did you end up with.
>
> Although I am not building the 601, a couple of local guys are, and they
> are still considering the VW with redrive. I am trying quietly to get
them
> to reconsider using it on the 601. Although I still think it "might" be a
> good choice for the 701,
>
> Monty
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: loud turn bank |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
There's only so much you can do to keep noise from being radiated by other
electrical circuits in your plane. The best idea is to try to keep that
noise from getting into your audio circuits.
Something to check: All of the wires carrying audio signals should be
shielded. Your audio cables should have two signal wires in a common shield.
The shield should not be part of the audio circuit, that is, it should not
be carrying any of the audio signal it should serve only as a shield. The
shields should be grounded at one end only and all to the same point.
Normally all of the audio shields are grounded at the audio panel since all
of them lead to or from there. If you don't have an audio panel, you are
probably running all of your audio to and from the intercom so this should
be where they are grounded. Most audio input and output jacks have one wire
connected to the shell of the jack so if you are installing these jacks in a
metal panel, you should use insulating washers isolate the shell from
ground.
This is not to be confused with RF signal cables where generally, both ends
of the shield are grounded. With RF cables, the shield is part of the RF
circuit. On audio cables, the shield just serves as a barrier to external
noise.
on 2/2/05 1:12 PM, Jack Russell at clojan@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Howdy: I hit one of those frustrating things that causes you to stop building
> for a couple of days and it is time to get back to it. The problem is the
> turn bank. Installed a new sigtronics 200s(sweet stereo intercom) and
> everything was quiet on the western front. Then the Icom 200a went in and when
> I turn on the radio I can hear the turn bank spinning up. It gets really loud
> in the headset. I can touch the back of the turn bank and the noise leaves
> for a while but returns. I did run a separate ground from the back of the
> instrument direct to the battery but no change. I tried a separate battery to
> the t/b (not practical but I thought it would be a good test) and that will
> work until I push the transmit on the yoke and the noise appears. I have even
> wrapped the t/b in foil. I did not try the radio shack filter yet but I don't
> think it will work since the separate battery didn't.
> I really wanted to to the dynon(solid state) instead of the t/b but my
> checkbook is just about dry. Any Ideas? Thanks in advance
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In Phase I testing.
do not archive.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Taildragger weight? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
When I was in his hanger a while ago, William mentioned that he built is
tail dragger well before the Zenith option was available. As a result they
over-engineered it to be on the safe side. There is a lot of steel in the
front of his plane that connects the longerons to the main gear to the
firewall. He said that the zenith solution is a lot lighter.
In general, one would think a tail wheel plane is lighter than the trike
version of the same plane.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
>From: "upnaway.1@netzero.com" <upnaway.1@netzero.com>
>
>I just read on flycorvair.com (one of my faves) that a tail dragging XL
>weighs more than a trike. Can anyone tell me why? Is there more
>strengthening needed in the tail for the tailwheel? If so does it effect
>c.g.? I think the tailwheel, especially William Wynne's, XL is one of the
>best looking planes there is.
>
>
>Nate
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Turn & Bank & Noise |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Turn & Bank Noise |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Do not archive
Sorry about the previous empty essage...phone handset fell on mouse, SEND got sent!
First of all, you gotta problem!
Noise, RF and/or audio is always difficult to find. You already know that.
Radio Shack has, or did have, small "cores" as you would use to wind baluns in
the world of HF radio.
These make fair filters....just make two or three turns of the power lead, NOT
the ground, through the core.
Makes an RF choke of sorts.
Also, get a couple of capacitors. One electrolytic of about 50 microfarad/50 vdc
and another, won't be electrolytic, of 0.1 micrfarad at 100vdc.
Grounding the ground end of the capacitor, touch the other end to the power input
point of each item one at a time to see if the cap has any effect. You'll
need to do this with each cap separately at each point.
Do same to everything else, one at a time.
Sometimes synthesizer circuits within equipments generate stuff that gets out and
destroys your day.
Surely not the Icom. When you find it, it'll be simple.
Note of caution-- these cores are made of a ferrous material, same as a magnet,
so bear in mind that high current as when transmitting on the radio (if its power
lead runs through a filter) could produce a slight magnetic field.....disturb
the compass. This is why well-designed filters have capacitors as well as
everything else.
Most likely you have one of those forest-and-trees deals where you can't find your
own mistake.
Fear not, walk backwards through the process. Somewhere you may have counted incorrectly
as to pin numbers or which solder tab is which. Been there, done that,
and got the gimme cap from Jon's Spring Mfg Co.
I can't imagine that the A-200 is at fault, good unit.
See if you can dangle all the mic jacks and headset jacks loose from the panel,
then re-mount them one at a time or use a clip lead to simulate the panel mount
(ground connection).
Also, if you used shielded wire, look for just one strand that escaped your gaze
and is touching where it shouldn't.....won't take but one to really screw up
things.
Hope this didn't befuddle your day.
Zed/701/912/A-200/visual intercom/90+%
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage shelf |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I went flying in Larry McFarland's 601 today. Really smooth BUT to get in
you have to support you weight in order to swing your legs in. You NEED a
place in between the seat backs. In addition being able to get things like
headsets, maps, hats, gloves off the back shelf before and during flight is
very handy. Your head also needs room but it up close it off, it will be
almost impossible to retrieve anything behind a door or the like.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Baggage shelf
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris"
<jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
>
>
> Scott,
>
> I was really psyched to seee your mod for the baggage area! I think it
really spruces and tidies up that part of the XL. My Dad and I start
tomorrow with the mod. Thanks for the pictures and the idea.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jeff and Peter Paris
> Jab3300 CH601XL
> 90% there, 90% to go
>
>
> --- On Wed 02/02, N5SL < nfivesl@yahoo.com > wrote:
> From: N5SL [mailto: nfivesl@yahoo.com]
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 08:12:12 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Baggage shelf
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks Grant:
>
> I actually sat in the airplane for the first time last night to figure out
where the seat belt holes should go. I've got some snips, a few files and a
dremel tool and if need-be I'll do some more cutting, but it seemed to work
OK last night. I look forward to the day I can be flying like you are and
report back how everything works!
>
> One note about the baggage area - I plan to install a BRS canister back
there so I'll be losing a lot of that space toward the back.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> N5SL (Reserved)
> 601XL/Corvair
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> When I'm strapped into my seat, and I need to reach into the back shelf /
> baggage hold to get something, my right arm has to swing up and over the
top
> of the seat back,
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> ===========================================================
> .matronics.com/zenith-list
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Taildragger weight? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Capetonian <capetonian@gmail.com>
> I just read on flycorvair.com (one of my faves) that a tail dragging XL weighs
more than a trike. Can anyone tell me why? Is there more strengthening needed
in the tail for the tailwheel? If so does it effect c.g.? I think the tailwheel,
especially William Wynne's, XL is one of the best looking planes there
is.
Hallo all,
This is the first time I have responded to the list although I have
been lurking for several months. Although I have plans at home for
both a Hatz Bipe and a Volksplane I have my heart set on the 601 XL.
It will be a long time before I get the money to even really start on
the project but I am thinking of ordering a rudder kit in a few months
time, ... so that I will be able to build that before the end of the
year.
I have my heart set on a 601XL taildragger, Corvair powered with the
extended range fuel tanks. And indeed that taildragger on the Corvair
page is an absolute stunner. I too was confused about the above
statement regarding the weight, ... but I also read later that the
aircraft had initially been intended to have tricycle gear, maybe this
is the cause of some extra weight.
I am very interested in the answer too.
Andrew
(Netherlands)
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Size VW for the 701 |
0.00 FORGED_MUA_EUDORA Forged mail pretending to be from Eudora
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
At 02:07 PM 2/2/05 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
<jean-paul.roy4@sympatico.ca>
>
>Hello Monty,
>what size of a VW do you think would be suitable for the 701?
>Regards
>
>Jean-Paul Roy
>
My answer is I DON'T KNOW.
First I am not a VW engine guy. I have tried over the last few years to learn
as much about them as I can but I am still barely a novice. So take anything
you read with a grain of salt, and realize its worth exactly what its costing
one to read this. I live in Central MO, 30 miles from Gene Smith of Valley
Eng
VW redrives. 20 miles from B.J. Schwaller, and within 120 mile radius of
numerous airplanes that fly VWs. I talk to as many as I can every chance I
can.
The 1915 VW with 1.6 :1 ratio redrive flys B.J.Schwallers 701 fine. I have
seen it take off some 10-15 times, and it compares within a few feet of other
80hp 912 Rotaxes I have observed in take off roll. It climbs great and it
cruises about 70-75mph.. But it still doesn't have a lot of hours on it yet.
Still less than 40. And I haven't seen it fly at full gross weight.... So its
an unproven install. But every indication is that its going to work.
Yes it provides the torque and thrust to fly the 701 but is it suitable? And
what size is?
ME PERSONALLY
I think the 1835cc with 1.6: to redrive will perform about like the 582 rotax
or a little better, certainly not as good as the 912 rotax 80HP
The 1915cc with redrive like Schwaller's somewhere between the 582 and very
near or at the 912 80HP level
The 2180cc with redrive equal to or better than the 912S 100HP
Why/How I come up with this is at the bottom...
But there is a lot more to it.
Like resale value, insurance, ease of installation, how mechanically engine
inclined one is, TBO....... etc etc.....
Anyone that will talk to you about VW's will tell you cooling is the thing.
As Randy Stout has already told us about in his installation. Its also a
given
fact that the bigger the cc the harder it is to cool. Randy had trouble
keeping
his VW cool. Rick Neilsen has a 2180 with redrive on a pusher Kolb, and he
claims he doesn't have any trouble with cooling......Its not as easy as one
would first think....Its still too early to tell on Schwaller's although so
far
so good, but no long flights either at a constant 3100 rpm. And few if any
will talk about TBO on the bigger engines, even Steve Bennet of Great Plains
won't talk about TBO.
I know for a fact from several different sources, that the 1835cc, if built
with care, flown with care, will last about 500-600 hrs before it needs to be
overhauled. But what about the 2180cc. I can't find any flying with over
250
hrs. And I would guess that 300 hrs before overhaul would be the max one
could
expect unless shown otherwise with examples of the Sonex or Sonerii line of
aircraft that might show up in the next couple of years.
The small 1835cc or 1915cc is where the price break comes in building the VW.
They use the standard crank, and with redrive cost about 3500-$4000 to build,
with a complete overhaul costing about 900-$1000 or less (cyclinders,
pistons,
heads, rings, bearings. case line bore) At these prices SCRATCH builders get
interested compared to the Rotaxes. That is a lot of cheap flying over a 25
year period 75-100 hrs per year or less.
But the 2180-2275cc VW engines with redrive cost aprox $6000 with an even
shorter TBO?. Is it worth it? I am not convinced yet. I want to see some
engines with 500 hrs or more and also some engine cooling packages that
demonstrate long extened flights with acceptable oil temp numbers and CHTs.
There are going to be a lot of Sonex Aero Vee engines out there with numbers
coming fairly soon.
I have an 1835cc VW engine already so I am going to start with it and go from
there...
Now for the HOW/WHY
Steve Bennet in his latest VW engine assembly manual gave a GREAT example of
why a person can't replace a Rotax 582 with a 2180cc VW DIRECT drive VW.
The Rotax chart is from their company charts,
http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/912-s.htm
Rotax engines
582cc produces 55 ft.lbs at 6000 rpm and 63.18 HP
912 produces 76 ft.lbs at 4800 rpm and 80 HP at 5500 rpm
912S produces 94 ft.lbs at 5100 rpm and 91.28 HP at 1352cc and rated 100HP
at 5800
VW engines at 3000 rpm chart derived from various engine models and is WAY
more
conservative
than most engine manufacturers numbers.
1600cc produces 87 ft.lbs torque and 50HP
1835cc produces 100 ft.lbs torque and 57 HP
1915cc produces 104 ft.lbs torque and 59 HP
2180cc produces 118 ft.lbs torque and 68 HP
2275cc produces 124 ft.lbs torque and 71HP
In Steve Bennets Great Plains engine assembly manual page 52 he claims he
has dyno tested his 2180cc VW at 76 HP and 121 ft. lbs of torque (as someone
pointed out that would be at 3168 rpm) Its also fairly close to the
other VW engine models used above in my chart.
Steve also goes on to say in part.
The following information was complied from actual Dyno testing of a Great
Plains 2180cc VW Direct Drive conversion. Our testing showed 76hp and
121ft. lbs of torque Most correct math models will fall within 10 % of
actual output.
Propeller diameter. Horsepower is horsepower, torque is torque, but don't
forget that propeller diameter! We receive calls from perspective customers
wanting to replace their two stroke engine with a four stroke. The
potential customer looks at the horsepower and torque numbers. They
mistakenly figure that a 2180cc direct drive engine, rated at 76hp and
121\ft. lbs of torque can easily replace their Rotax 582. In most case with
high drag aircraft, it can not. A direct drive 2180cc VW can turn up to a
62" diameter prop. The Rotax 582 and 2.58 gear box can easily swing a 72"
prop. The difference in static thrust can be as much as 125 pound in favor
of the Rotax 582, courtesy of propeller diameter.
Example: Rotax 582 develops 65hp and 53.3 ft lbs of torque. When used with
a 2.58:1 gear box, the effective torque is 142.67 ft. lbs. of torque, This
26 ft. lbs. more torque than a direct drive 76hp 2180cc VW can produce. not
taking into account the larger prop diameter which produces considerably
more static thrust.
A direct drive VW engine has to turn 3000+ rpm's to develop its's useable
horsepower. Because of this it is limited by propeller diameter. For
example, a direct drive 2180cc VW turning a 62" diameter prop at 3300 rpm
has tip speed of 892ft./sc. Wood props in general try to keep the tip speed
below 900 ft./sc. A 2180cc direct drive VW with a 62" prop will produce
between 275 and 300 pounds of static thrust. A 582 Rotax running at 6000
rpm with a 2.58 gear box using a 72" diameter prop has a prop speed of
2,325 rpm's or 729 ft./sc tip speed. The Rotax 582 can produce over 400
pounds of static thrust with this diameter. A Reduction Drive Unit can be
added to the VW motor so that it can turn 68" to 84" Props
END of Steve Bennet Quote:
This should point out to ANYONE considering a DIRECT drive VW for a 701 why it
is
NOT a good choice.
Above I posted here that I thought the 1835 VW with Valley Eng redrive was
going
to work with the CH 701. The torque multiplier effect of the redrive is
why.
When we compare the 1835cc VW with a 1.6:1 redrive with the 582 Rotax with
a 2.58 we see that we can get about 162 ft.lbs of torque AT THE PROP with
the VW compared to the 142.67 of the Rotax. B.J.'s 1915 VW is swinging
the same 72 inch three blade as the Rotax but with a larger pitch than the
582rotax.
Comparing the 2180cc VW or the 2275cc VW with a 2.1:1 redrive to the 912s
you can see why anyone that has flown in or observed Gene Smith's engines
fly will believe him when he says his 2275cc VW engine redrive prop package
will outperform the 100HP Rotax.
2180cc VW produces 118 ft.lbs of torque and with he 2.1:1 redrive produces
247 ft.lbs of torque at the prop, versus the 912S 94 ft.lbs using a 2.43
reduction developing 228 ft.lbs. of torque at the prop.
Another example: The 912 produces 76 ft. lbs of torque and uses a 2.27 : 1
redrive or 172.52 ft lbs of torque at the prop Compare this to the simplified
chart below
VW's cc and torque at prop using a redrive
1834 162 ft lbs
1915 166
2180 247 ft lbs
Compared to the Rotaxes torque at the prop with their redrives
582 143 ft lbs
912 173 ft lbs.
912s 228 ft lbs
HOWEVER: notice in all cases the VW has to swing a LARGER slower turning
prop than the Rotax. I believe the law of dimensioning returns is
working when it comes to speeds above about 90-100 mph and using redives.
It could be drag factor or maybe larger slower turning props lose their
effiiecny more quickely than the faster turning smaller diameter props. I
will leave this for others to debate this, but I think it is one reason Randy
Stout found the VW redrive combo unacceptable on the 601.
If Randy read this far... :-) maybe he can tell us what the torque of the
Corvair is.
Monty
At 02:07 PM 2/2/05 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
<jean-paul.roy4@sympatico.ca>
>
>Hello Monty,
>what size of a VW do you think would be suitable for the 701?
>Regards
>
>Jean-Paul Roy
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Size VW for the 701 0.00 FORGED_MUA_EUDORA |
Forged mail pretending to be from Eudora
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@sympatico.ca>
Thanks kindly Monty
Jean-Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Monty Graves" <mgraves@usmo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Size VW for the 701 0.00 FORGED_MUA_EUDORA Forged
mail pretending to be from Eudora
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>
> At 02:07 PM 2/2/05 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
> <jean-paul.roy4@sympatico.ca>
> >
> >Hello Monty,
> >what size of a VW do you think would be suitable for the 701?
> >Regards
> >
> >Jean-Paul Roy
> >
>
> My answer is I DON'T KNOW.
>
> First I am not a VW engine guy. I have tried over the last few years to
learn
> as much about them as I can but I am still barely a novice. So take
anything
> you read with a grain of salt, and realize its worth exactly what its
costing
> one to read this. I live in Central MO, 30 miles from Gene Smith of Valley
> Eng
> VW redrives. 20 miles from B.J. Schwaller, and within 120 mile radius of
> numerous airplanes that fly VWs. I talk to as many as I can every chance I
> can.
>
> The 1915 VW with 1.6 :1 ratio redrive flys B.J.Schwallers 701 fine. I have
> seen it take off some 10-15 times, and it compares within a few feet of
other
> 80hp 912 Rotaxes I have observed in take off roll. It climbs great and it
> cruises about 70-75mph.. But it still doesn't have a lot of hours on it
yet.
> Still less than 40. And I haven't seen it fly at full gross weight.... So
its
> an unproven install. But every indication is that its going to work.
>
> Yes it provides the torque and thrust to fly the 701 but is it suitable?
And
> what size is?
>
> ME PERSONALLY
>
> I think the 1835cc with 1.6: to redrive will perform about like the 582
rotax
> or a little better, certainly not as good as the 912 rotax 80HP
> The 1915cc with redrive like Schwaller's somewhere between the 582 and
very
> near or at the 912 80HP level
> The 2180cc with redrive equal to or better than the 912S 100HP
>
> Why/How I come up with this is at the bottom...
>
> But there is a lot more to it.
>
> Like resale value, insurance, ease of installation, how mechanically
engine
> inclined one is, TBO....... etc etc.....
>
> Anyone that will talk to you about VW's will tell you cooling is the
thing.
> As Randy Stout has already told us about in his installation. Its also a
> given
> fact that the bigger the cc the harder it is to cool. Randy had trouble
> keeping
> his VW cool. Rick Neilsen has a 2180 with redrive on a pusher Kolb, and he
> claims he doesn't have any trouble with cooling......Its not as easy as
one
> would first think....Its still too early to tell on Schwaller's although
so
> far
> so good, but no long flights either at a constant 3100 rpm. And few if any
> will talk about TBO on the bigger engines, even Steve Bennet of Great
Plains
> won't talk about TBO.
>
> I know for a fact from several different sources, that the 1835cc, if
built
> with care, flown with care, will last about 500-600 hrs before it needs to
be
> overhauled. But what about the 2180cc. I can't find any flying with over
> 250
> hrs. And I would guess that 300 hrs before overhaul would be the max one
> could
> expect unless shown otherwise with examples of the Sonex or Sonerii line
of
> aircraft that might show up in the next couple of years.
>
> The small 1835cc or 1915cc is where the price break comes in building the
VW.
> They use the standard crank, and with redrive cost about 3500-$4000 to
build,
> with a complete overhaul costing about 900-$1000 or less (cyclinders,
> pistons,
> heads, rings, bearings. case line bore) At these prices SCRATCH builders
get
> interested compared to the Rotaxes. That is a lot of cheap flying over a
25
> year period 75-100 hrs per year or less.
>
> But the 2180-2275cc VW engines with redrive cost aprox $6000 with an even
> shorter TBO?. Is it worth it? I am not convinced yet. I want to see some
> engines with 500 hrs or more and also some engine cooling packages that
> demonstrate long extened flights with acceptable oil temp numbers and
CHTs.
> There are going to be a lot of Sonex Aero Vee engines out there with
numbers
> coming fairly soon.
>
> I have an 1835cc VW engine already so I am going to start with it and go
from
> there...
>
> Now for the HOW/WHY
>
>
> Steve Bennet in his latest VW engine assembly manual gave a GREAT example
of
> why a person can't replace a Rotax 582 with a 2180cc VW DIRECT drive VW.
>
> The Rotax chart is from their company charts,
> http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/912-s.htm
>
> Rotax engines
>
> 582cc produces 55 ft.lbs at 6000 rpm and 63.18 HP
> 912 produces 76 ft.lbs at 4800 rpm and 80 HP at 5500 rpm
> 912S produces 94 ft.lbs at 5100 rpm and 91.28 HP at 1352cc and rated 100HP
> at 5800
>
> VW engines at 3000 rpm chart derived from various engine models and is WAY
> more
> conservative
> than most engine manufacturers numbers.
>
> 1600cc produces 87 ft.lbs torque and 50HP
> 1835cc produces 100 ft.lbs torque and 57 HP
> 1915cc produces 104 ft.lbs torque and 59 HP
> 2180cc produces 118 ft.lbs torque and 68 HP
> 2275cc produces 124 ft.lbs torque and 71HP
>
> In Steve Bennets Great Plains engine assembly manual page 52 he claims he
> has dyno tested his 2180cc VW at 76 HP and 121 ft. lbs of torque (as
someone
> pointed out that would be at 3168 rpm) Its also fairly close to the
> other VW engine models used above in my chart.
>
> Steve also goes on to say in part.
> The following information was complied from actual Dyno testing of a Great
> Plains 2180cc VW Direct Drive conversion. Our testing showed 76hp and
> 121ft. lbs of torque Most correct math models will fall within 10 % of
> actual output.
> Propeller diameter. Horsepower is horsepower, torque is torque, but don't
> forget that propeller diameter! We receive calls from perspective
customers
> wanting to replace their two stroke engine with a four stroke. The
> potential customer looks at the horsepower and torque numbers. They
> mistakenly figure that a 2180cc direct drive engine, rated at 76hp and
> 121\ft. lbs of torque can easily replace their Rotax 582. In most case
with
> high drag aircraft, it can not. A direct drive 2180cc VW can turn up to a
> 62" diameter prop. The Rotax 582 and 2.58 gear box can easily swing a 72"
> prop. The difference in static thrust can be as much as 125 pound in favor
> of the Rotax 582, courtesy of propeller diameter.
> Example: Rotax 582 develops 65hp and 53.3 ft lbs of torque. When used with
> a 2.58:1 gear box, the effective torque is 142.67 ft. lbs. of torque, This
> 26 ft. lbs. more torque than a direct drive 76hp 2180cc VW can produce.
not
> taking into account the larger prop diameter which produces considerably
> more static thrust.
> A direct drive VW engine has to turn 3000+ rpm's to develop its's useable
> horsepower. Because of this it is limited by propeller diameter. For
> example, a direct drive 2180cc VW turning a 62" diameter prop at 3300 rpm
> has tip speed of 892ft./sc. Wood props in general try to keep the tip
speed
> below 900 ft./sc. A 2180cc direct drive VW with a 62" prop will produce
> between 275 and 300 pounds of static thrust. A 582 Rotax running at 6000
> rpm with a 2.58 gear box using a 72" diameter prop has a prop speed of
> 2,325 rpm's or 729 ft./sc tip speed. The Rotax 582 can produce over 400
> pounds of static thrust with this diameter. A Reduction Drive Unit can be
> added to the VW motor so that it can turn 68" to 84" Props
> END of Steve Bennet Quote:
>
> This should point out to ANYONE considering a DIRECT drive VW for a 701
why it
> is
> NOT a good choice.
>
> Above I posted here that I thought the 1835 VW with Valley Eng redrive was
> going
> to work with the CH 701. The torque multiplier effect of the redrive is
> why.
> When we compare the 1835cc VW with a 1.6:1 redrive with the 582 Rotax with
> a 2.58 we see that we can get about 162 ft.lbs of torque AT THE PROP with
> the VW compared to the 142.67 of the Rotax. B.J.'s 1915 VW is swinging
> the same 72 inch three blade as the Rotax but with a larger pitch than the
> 582rotax.
>
> Comparing the 2180cc VW or the 2275cc VW with a 2.1:1 redrive to the 912s
> you can see why anyone that has flown in or observed Gene Smith's engines
> fly will believe him when he says his 2275cc VW engine redrive prop
package
> will outperform the 100HP Rotax.
>
> 2180cc VW produces 118 ft.lbs of torque and with he 2.1:1 redrive produces
> 247 ft.lbs of torque at the prop, versus the 912S 94 ft.lbs using a 2.43
> reduction developing 228 ft.lbs. of torque at the prop.
>
> Another example: The 912 produces 76 ft. lbs of torque and uses a 2.27 : 1
> redrive or 172.52 ft lbs of torque at the prop Compare this to the
simplified
> chart below
>
> VW's cc and torque at prop using a redrive
> 1834 162 ft lbs
> 1915 166
> 2180 247 ft lbs
>
> Compared to the Rotaxes torque at the prop with their redrives
> 582 143 ft lbs
> 912 173 ft lbs.
> 912s 228 ft lbs
>
> HOWEVER: notice in all cases the VW has to swing a LARGER slower turning
> prop than the Rotax. I believe the law of dimensioning returns is
> working when it comes to speeds above about 90-100 mph and using redives.
> It could be drag factor or maybe larger slower turning props lose their
> effiiecny more quickely than the faster turning smaller diameter props. I
> will leave this for others to debate this, but I think it is one reason
Randy
> Stout found the VW redrive combo unacceptable on the 601.
>
> If Randy read this far... :-) maybe he can tell us what the torque of the
> Corvair is.
>
> Monty
>
>
> At 02:07 PM 2/2/05 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
> <jean-paul.roy4@sympatico.ca>
> >
> >Hello Monty,
> >what size of a VW do you think would be suitable for the 701?
> >Regards
> >
> >Jean-Paul Roy
> >
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Size VW for the 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
William advertises it at 160 ft./lbs. @2,800 rpm. Is it correct? Beats me.
I do know the 2180 VW with 1.6:1 redrive would beat the Corvair off the
runway and out climb it until the temps started knocking on the 425 mark.
That's when the Corvair would leave the VW in the dust.
Randy Stout
n282rs"at"earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
> If Randy read this far... :-) maybe he can tell us what the torque of the
> Corvair is.
>
>
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
Food for thought;
I am a Sales Engineer for a large Tool & Die Company (600 Employees) and we design
and build progressive dies and provide precision components for transfer presses
along with a lot of other applications. A few years ago, before I changed
territories, one of my customers was a manufacturer of high quality blind rivets
and I visited their operation to try and determine why they were having
a difficult time with one of our dies that had operated for years without problems.
They were unable to achieve the same long runs and stay within specification
as they had in the past. The problem was solved but my point is this: The
die was still making part number (whatever) but the rivets were junk, they had
a very good quality program so the bad parts were not shipped. Zenith has had
problems in the past with certain manufacturers that could not make quality
rivets consistently, eventually they found a company they could rely on. Zenith
is now working with the Chinese and in their news letter Chris stated: "We are
in the process of setting up an extra test so that we can continue guaranteeing
the correct shear strength of the rivets Zenair and ZAC supply."
I have not spoke with anyone at Zenair so this is just my opinion, I believe the
Chinese have come a long way but most don't seem to have a good QC system,
I feel sure that's the reason Zenair is setting up a quality program that is usually
done by the manufacturer. I can't help but wonder if the aircraft part
suppliers are checking the quality of the rivets they are selling, if not, it
would be a good idea to check the rivets yourselves.
Clyde Barcus
CH 601XL Builder
Message 24
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| Subject: | Shipping charges (Thanks Guys!) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H" <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Turn & Bank Noise |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Zed: I hope you don't mind but I took the liberty of reposting your response and
taking off your do not archiv*. Your post along with several other good responses
gave me many more clues to follow for the radio noise problem. I think
your answer is important in the archive for later reference. I did try the choke
you mentioned today and when I first turned on the Turn bank the noise was
gone. Keyed the mike several times and no noise. Keyed it a few more and the noise
returned until I spoke in the intercom and the noise left. It is still a
problem but I think we might be on to something. Thanks to all who helped. Jack
in Clovis,Ca
Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith
First of all, you gotta problem!
Noise, RF and/or audio is always difficult to find. You already know that.
Radio Shack has, or did have, small "cores" as you would use to wind baluns in
the world of HF radio.
These make fair filters....just make two or three turns of the power lead, NOT
the ground, through the core.
Makes an RF choke of sorts.
Also, get a couple of capacitors. One electrolytic of about 50 microfarad/50 vdc
and another, won't be electrolytic, of 0.1 micrfarad at 100vdc.
Grounding the ground end of the capacitor, touch the other end to the power input
point of each item one at a time to see if the cap has any effect. You'll need
to do this with each cap separately at each point.
Do same to everything else, one at a time.
Sometimes synthesizer circuits within equipments generate stuff that gets out and
destroys your day.
Surely not the Icom. When you find it, it'll be simple.
Note of caution-- these cores are made of a ferrous material, same as a magnet,
so bear in mind that high current as when transmitting on the radio (if its power
lead runs through a filter) could produce a slight magnetic field.....disturb
the compass. This is why well-designed filters have capacitors as well as
everything else.
Most likely you have one of those forest-and-trees deals where you can't find your
own mistake.
Fear not, walk backwards through the process. Somewhere you may have counted incorrectly
as to pin numbers or which solder tab is which. Been there, done that,
and got the gimme cap from Jon's Spring Mfg Co.
I can't imagine that the A-200 is at fault, good unit.
See if you can dangle all the mic jacks and headset jacks loose from the panel,
then re-mount them one at a time or use a clip lead to simulate the panel mount
(ground connection).
Also, if you used shielded wire, look for just one strand that escaped your gaze
and is touching where it shouldn't.....won't take but one to really screw up
things.
Hope this didn't befuddle your day.
Zed/701/912/A-200/visual intercom/90+%
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Turn & Bank Noise |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Jack,
Good job. I agree.
I actually saved that last Zed post in my personal files as this was an
excellent primer on hunting down noise and how to attempt some excellent
erradication techniques in an aircraft. The wondeful world of RF electronic
signal phenomena (read: radio signals, the ones we want and the ones that
cause interference) is often not well understood by many of us and posts
like this one are quite valuable. Actually, was hoping Zed could elaborate
even more on this area, as the mood suits him. How often have you wondered
what that 'bump' was on your power cord, or telephone cord, entering your
electronic equipment.... the balun !
My post, this one right now - is an example of a do not archive post! do
not archive !
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Zed: I hope you don't mind but I took the liberty of reposting your
> response and taking off your do not archiv*. Your post along with several
> other good responses gave me many more clues to follow for the radio noise
> problem. I think your answer is important in the archive for later
> reference. I did try the choke you mentioned today and when I first turned
> on the Turn bank the noise was gone. Keyed the mike several times and no
> noise. Keyed it a few more and the noise returned until I spoke in the
> intercom and the noise left. It is still a problem but I think we might be
> on to something. Thanks to all who helped. Jack in Clovis,Ca
>
> Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith
>
>
> First of all, you gotta problem!
>
> Noise, RF and/or audio is always difficult to find. You already know that.
> Radio Shack has, or did have, small "cores" as you would use to wind
> baluns in the world of HF radio.
> These make fair filters....just make two or three turns of the power lead,
> NOT the ground, through the core.
> Makes an RF choke of sorts.
>
> Also, get a couple of capacitors. One electrolytic of about 50
> microfarad/50 vdc and another, won't be electrolytic, of 0.1 micrfarad at
> 100vdc.
>
> Grounding the ground end of the capacitor, touch the other end to the
> power input point of each item one at a time to see if the cap has any
> effect. You'll need to do this with each cap separately at each point.
> Do same to everything else, one at a time.
>
> Sometimes synthesizer circuits within equipments generate stuff that gets
> out and destroys your day.
> Surely not the Icom. When you find it, it'll be simple.
>
> Note of caution-- these cores are made of a ferrous material, same as a
> magnet, so bear in mind that high current as when transmitting on the
> radio (if its power lead runs through a filter) could produce a slight
> magnetic field.....disturb the compass. This is why well-designed filters
> have capacitors as well as everything else.
>
> Most likely you have one of those forest-and-trees deals where you can't
> find your own mistake.
> Fear not, walk backwards through the process. Somewhere you may have
> counted incorrectly as to pin numbers or which solder tab is which. Been
> there, done that, and got the gimme cap from Jon's Spring Mfg Co.
>
> I can't imagine that the A-200 is at fault, good unit.
> See if you can dangle all the mic jacks and headset jacks loose from the
> panel, then re-mount them one at a time or use a clip lead to simulate the
> panel mount (ground connection).
>
> Also, if you used shielded wire, look for just one strand that escaped
> your gaze and is touching where it shouldn't.....won't take but one to
> really screw up things.
>
> Hope this didn't befuddle your day.
>
> Zed/701/912/A-200/visual intercom/90+%
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | RE: Continental 0200 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <n801za@hotmail.com>
You might want to talk to : Harold Maness - (907) 357-8190 - , Wasilla, AK
99654
He scratch built a 701 a number of years ago, used the O-200 he's still
flying it.
Jim Frisby
Palmer, AK
N801ZA
>> HI 701 Builders
>> Has anyone put a Continental 0200 in a 701??
>> I like the no water lines,no oil lines no oil cooler, no water
>>cooler
>> also no gear box and low engine rpms.
>> Has anyone tried it ???
>> Tail, flaps,slats done working on fuselage.
>> Vernon Knott in R. I.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: RE: 601 Models (was kit selection) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " <brett@hog-air.com>
They way we were wanting to do it was build LSA ready to go. But That is
hard and slow to get going. So what we are having to do is just like the
last one we did. And the one we are doing now. Build it register it fly
off the test time and then we sell it.
Yes it's a hassel but look at the bright side you get a plane that's
already tested.
Oh and by the way we can install other engines. There's just a price
increase. Depending on the engine.
Thanks
Brett Ray
www.hog-air.com
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: COM static on 123.05 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
No COM noise until about 125 hours.
Then it was very annoying at certain frequencies.
I inspected all of the connections shields and grounds.
I tried filters on some power leads - no help with radiated noise.
I noticed that there was some play in the distributor caps.
I shimmed the clamps - and the noise went away.
Problem solved.
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
160 hours, Jabiru 3300
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/
Joe E wrote:- 05 Jan 05
> I've been scratching my head and searching the archives about this
> problem. No static on 120.6 or 118.3. Static on 123.05 and 122.7.
> My COM worked fine for > 125 hours and now this. . . . . . .
Message 30
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" <richard@rodsley.net>
That may be so if you are on your side of the Atlantic. Seen from here in
the UK, they are awful. On two occasions I have e mailed questions to them
about our 601HDS, one about a serious problem, and I have never even had the
courtesy of a reply. True, our kit came from the Czech factory but I would
have expected a response of some sort even if it was referring me somewhere
else. That coupled with the fact that the support from the UK importer is
also dreadful means that Zenair buyers in the UK are totally on their own.
Nice product, but if I was starting again I would not buy a Zenair for that
reason alone.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> As traffic is light, and I'm "unbusy", here is some feedback that new
subscribers - specialy those
> still undecided about which project to take.
>
> I'm building a CH601 from scratch, and will probably install the dual
sticks option provided by
> ZAC - I already acquired the plans.
> While studying the drawings, I noticed that the XL front bearing plate
(6B17-1) is different from
> the HD's.
> I then wrote to ZAC, explained the situation and asked for the dimentions
on that part.
>
> Twenty-four hours later I received an email from ZAC with a scanned
picture of the part and a link
> to the XL building manual.
> (I also posted the question on this list, and Neil Hulin beat ZAC by 12
h - thanks once again,
> Neil).
>
> As you see, ZAC is pretty darn good. Not perfect, but pretty darn good.
>
>
> Happy building
>
> Carlos
>
>
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