---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/02/05: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:26 AM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle) 2. 05:02 AM - Shipping Charges (The Minearts) 3. 05:43 AM - Taildragger weight? (upnaway.1@netzero.com) 4. 07:38 AM - ZAC (Carlos Sa) 5. 07:52 AM - Baggage shelf (Grant Corriveau) 6. 08:13 AM - Re: Baggage shelf (N5SL) 7. 08:33 AM - Re: New CH701.com facelift (RURUNY@aol.com) 8. 09:57 AM - Re: Rivets (MJBTOL@aol.com) 9. 09:59 AM - Re: Randy Stouts Covair install (Monty Graves) 10. 10:13 AM - loud turn bank (Jack Russell) 11. 10:40 AM - Re: Baggage shelf (Jeffrey J Paris) 12. 11:10 AM - Re: Randy Stouts Covair install (Jean-Paul Roy) 13. 11:12 AM - Re: Randy Stouts Covair install (Randy Stout) 14. 11:19 AM - Re: loud turn bank (Bryan Martin) 15. 12:08 PM - Re: Taildragger weight? (Phil Maxson) 16. 12:08 PM - Re: Turn & Bank & Noise (Zed Smith) 17. 12:56 PM - Re: Turn & Bank Noise (Zed Smith) 18. 02:54 PM - Re: Baggage shelf (cgalley) 19. 03:44 PM - Re: Taildragger weight? (Capetonian) 20. 04:16 PM - Re: Size VW for the 701 (Monty Graves) 21. 04:36 PM - Re: Re: Size VW for the 701 0.00 FORGED_MUA_EUDORA Forged mail pretending to be from Eudora (Jean-Paul Roy) 22. 04:40 PM - Re: Re: Size VW for the 701 (Randy Stout) 23. 05:22 PM - Rivets (Clyde Barcus) 24. 06:48 PM - Shipping charges (Thanks Guys!) (Mike H) 25. 07:04 PM - Re: Re: Turn & Bank Noise (Jack Russell) 26. 07:30 PM - Re: Re: Turn & Bank Noise (Jon Croke) 27. 10:04 PM - Re: Continental 0200 (Jim Frisby) 28. 10:42 PM - Re: Re: 601 Models (was kit selection) (Brett) 29. 10:44 PM - Re: COM static on 123.05 (xl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:23 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] DNA: do not archive --> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Lister, Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Zenith-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Zenith-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. ------- [This is an automated posting.] ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:32 AM PST US From: "The Minearts" Subject: Zenith-List: Shipping Charges --> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Minearts" I live about 3.5 hours' drive from ZAC, and have picked up all my sub-kits, with only the canopy left to pick up. A minivan will handle everything except the wing spars. You will save on crating charges as well as freight. The long skins can be rolled to fit inside. I took my brother-in-law along with his trailer to get the wing kit, but could have carried the wing spars on a roof rack. I enjoy making a day of it, and hanging out at the factory a while in the process. Steve, 601XL/corvair, wings & tail done, fuse-85% do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:32 AM PST US From: "upnaway.1@netzero.com" Subject: Zenith-List: Taildragger weight? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "upnaway.1@netzero.com" I just read on flycorvair.com (one of my faves) that a tail dragging XL weighs more than a trike. Can anyone tell me why? Is there more strengthening needed in the tail for the tailwheel? If so does it effect c.g.? I think the tailwheel, especially William Wynne's, XL is one of the best looking planes there is. Nate ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:30 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa As traffic is light, and I'm "unbusy", here is some feedback that new subscribers - specialy those still undecided about which project to take. I'm building a CH601 from scratch, and will probably install the dual sticks option provided by ZAC - I already acquired the plans. While studying the drawings, I noticed that the XL front bearing plate (6B17-1) is different from the HD's. I then wrote to ZAC, explained the situation and asked for the dimentions on that part. Twenty-four hours later I received an email from ZAC with a scanned picture of the part and a link to the XL building manual. (I also posted the question on this list, and Neil Hulin beat ZAC by 12 h - thanks once again, Neil). As you see, ZAC is pretty darn good. Not perfect, but pretty darn good. Happy building Carlos ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:40 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Baggage shelf From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau ... > Thank you for the input on my baggage hole modification. Last night I moved > forward > on the project and took a few photos for your viewing pleasure. Another 2 cents worth: When I'm strapped into my seat, and I need to reach into the back shelf / baggage hold to get something, my right arm has to swing up and over the top of the seat back, and my elbow needs to raise up to the shelf level and swing in behind my own seat -- (if you an picture this)... For this reason I've delayed installing headrests on my seatbacks as I believe they would make it even more awkward to reach back there. You should test out this mod while strapped in, taking into account the seatbelt, seatback, canopy close overhead, etc... It may at least cause you to modify the dimensions and location of the opening you cut. fwiw -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:37 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Baggage shelf --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Thanks Grant: I actually sat in the airplane for the first time last night to figure out where the seat belt holes should go. I've got some snips, a few files and a dremel tool and if need-be I'll do some more cutting, but it seemed to work OK last night. I look forward to the day I can be flying like you are and report back how everything works! One note about the baggage area - I plan to install a BRS canister back there so I'll be losing a lot of that space toward the back. Scott Laughlin N5SL (Reserved) 601XL/Corvair www.cooknwithgas.com DO NOT ARCHIVE Grant Corriveau wrote: When I'm strapped into my seat, and I need to reach into the back shelf / baggage hold to get something, my right arm has to swing up and over the top of the seat back, --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:24 AM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New CH701.com facelift --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com Jon and Mark, The site looks great, I visit there often. Always looking for somthing new to see. I hope to contribute soon with some of my own building experiences. Brian 701 Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:17 AM PST US From: MJBTOL@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: MJBTOL@aol.com And the part # for the A5's is 01606-00514 Regards, Mike do not archive ( It's already there ) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:09 AM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Randy Stouts Covair install --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves Sounds like your happy with the change over from the VW with redrive it appears you gained about 15mph cruise with the switch. But still below the 120 mph claim from ZAC. How about engine cooling? Oil Temps? CHT's etc, And what prop length and pitch did you end up with. Although I am not building the 601, a couple of local guys are, and they are still considering the VW with redrive. I am trying quietly to get them to reconsider using it on the 601. Although I still think it "might" be a good choice for the 701, Monty At 10:27 PM 2/1/05 -0600, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" > >What I've found is that the max speed varies with weight and balance. By >myself, (gross weight 1100) I can usually hit 110 mph. I pull back the >throttle to 2900 rpm and cruise at 107 mph. With the wife, dog, and a small >bag (gross 1300). it slows to 103 mph crusie. Remember that we are talking >about a HD and these numbers are about normal for a HD. I think it can do >better yet. My timing is only set to 25 BTDC. William recommends 32 BTDC. >As soon as I can get in contact with him, I'm going to see about getting >his recurved distributer. > >Randy Stout >n282rs"at"earthlink.net >www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Monty Graves >> To: >> Date: 2/1/05 6:45:57 PM >> Subject: Zenith-List: Randy Stouts Covair install0.00 FORGED_MUA_EUDORA >Forged mail pretending to be from Eudora >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves >> >> Hey way to go Randy, >> >> How about some speed numbers on the Vair? >> >> 7 hr trip should have given you some really good info. Not to mention you >> feel comfortable enough with the new engine to make the trip >> >> M >> >> At 11:31 AM 1/28/05 -0600, you wrote: >> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" >> > >> >Scott >> > >> >You might someday appreciate the big hole. I flew my HD to Dallas last >week >> >(3,5 hr trip each way). I took my wife and dog. Dog in the right seat >and >> >wife in the baggage area. OOPS, that's wife in the right seat and dog in >> >the baggage area. That big hole helped getting the wife, err, I mean dog >> >back there. Also, don't forget that if you have head rests, they will >cover >> >part of the hole. >> > >> >Randy Stout >> >n282rs"at"earthlink.net >> >www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 >> > >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:29 AM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Zenith-List: loud turn bank --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Howdy: I hit one of those frustrating things that causes you to stop building for a couple of days and it is time to get back to it. The problem is the turn bank. Installed a new sigtronics 200s(sweet stereo intercom) and everything was quiet on the western front. Then the Icom 200a went in and when I turn on the radio I can hear the turn bank spinning up. It gets really loud in the headset. I can touch the back of the turn bank and the noise leaves for a while but returns. I did run a separate ground from the back of the instrument direct to the battery but no change. I tried a separate battery to the t/b (not practical but I thought it would be a good test) and that will work until I push the transmit on the yoke and the noise appears. I have even wrapped the t/b in foil. I did not try the radio shack filter yet but I don't think it will work since the separate battery didn't. I really wanted to to the dynon(solid state) instead of the t/b but my checkbook is just about dry. Any Ideas? Thanks in advance Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Baggage shelf From: "Jeffrey J Paris" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" Scott, I was really psyched to seee your mod for the baggage area! I think it really spruces and tidies up that part of the XL. My Dad and I start tomorrow with the mod. Thanks for the pictures and the idea. Sincerely, Jeff and Peter Paris Jab3300 CH601XL 90% there, 90% to go --- On Wed 02/02, N5SL < nfivesl@yahoo.com > wrote: From: N5SL [mailto: nfivesl@yahoo.com] Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Baggage shelf --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Thanks Grant: I actually sat in the airplane for the first time last night to figure out where the seat belt holes should go. I've got some snips, a few files and a dremel tool and if need-be I'll do some more cutting, but it seemed to work OK last night. I look forward to the day I can be flying like you are and report back how everything works! One note about the baggage area - I plan to install a BRS canister back there so I'll be losing a lot of that space toward the back. Scott Laughlin N5SL (Reserved) 601XL/Corvair www.cooknwithgas.com DO NOT ARCHIVE Grant Corriveau wrote: When I'm strapped into my seat, and I need to reach into the back shelf / baggage hold to get something, my right arm has to swing up and over the top of the seat back, --------------------------------- =========================================================== .matronics.com/zenith-list ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:44 AM PST US From: "Jean-Paul Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Randy Stouts Covair install --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" Hello Monty, what size of a VW do you think would be suitable for the 701? Regards Jean-Paul Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Monty Graves" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Randy Stouts Covair install > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves > > Sounds like your happy with the change over from the VW with redrive it > appears you gained about 15mph cruise with the switch. But still below the > 120 mph claim from ZAC. > > How about engine cooling? Oil Temps? CHT's etc, > > And what prop length and pitch did you end up with. > > Although I am not building the 601, a couple of local guys are, and they > are still considering the VW with redrive. I am trying quietly to get them > to reconsider using it on the 601. Although I still think it "might" be a > good choice for the 701, > > Monty > > > At 10:27 PM 2/1/05 -0600, you wrote: > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" > > > >What I've found is that the max speed varies with weight and balance. By > >myself, (gross weight 1100) I can usually hit 110 mph. I pull back the > >throttle to 2900 rpm and cruise at 107 mph. With the wife, dog, and a small > >bag (gross 1300). it slows to 103 mph crusie. Remember that we are talking > >about a HD and these numbers are about normal for a HD. I think it can do > >better yet. My timing is only set to 25 BTDC. William recommends 32 BTDC. > >As soon as I can get in contact with him, I'm going to see about getting > >his recurved distributer. > > > >Randy Stout > >n282rs"at"earthlink.net > >www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > > > > > >> [Original Message] > >> From: Monty Graves > >> To: > >> Date: 2/1/05 6:45:57 PM > >> Subject: Zenith-List: Randy Stouts Covair install0.00 FORGED_MUA_EUDORA > >Forged mail pretending to be from Eudora > >> > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves > >> > >> Hey way to go Randy, > >> > >> How about some speed numbers on the Vair? > >> > >> 7 hr trip should have given you some really good info. Not to mention you > >> feel comfortable enough with the new engine to make the trip > >> > >> M > >> > >> At 11:31 AM 1/28/05 -0600, you wrote: > >> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" > >> > > >> >Scott > >> > > >> >You might someday appreciate the big hole. I flew my HD to Dallas last > >week > >> >(3,5 hr trip each way). I took my wife and dog. Dog in the right seat > >and > >> >wife in the baggage area. OOPS, that's wife in the right seat and dog in > >> >the baggage area. That big hole helped getting the wife, err, I mean dog > >> >back there. Also, don't forget that if you have head rests, they will > >cover > >> >part of the hole. > >> > > >> >Randy Stout > >> >n282rs"at"earthlink.net > >> >www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:22 AM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Randy Stouts Covair install --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" I'm much happier with the Corvair. I think the only person who would be happy with a VW on a 601 is someone who wants a STOL 601. You are going to trade speed for initial climb. The VW wanted to take off before I was ready. The Corvair has to get going a bit before it will take off. My prop is a 64" Warp Drive. William say to use a 66", but I think the 64" is too close to the ground so there was no way I was going with a 66". I found out that the XL's have a ring welded to the nose gear to limit travel. Mine don't. Maybe that's why he says to use a 66". The pitch is currently set to 9 degrees measured from the tip. I'm hoping that I can increase it to 10 after the distributor change. Temperatures on the Corvair: CHT's usually stay somewhere between 325 and 375. They've been the same no matter which plug I put the sensor under. The left side is within a couple of degrees of the right. Oil temp has been a bit of an issue, but that was because of the way I was trying to cool it. I now have the cooler mounted to the lower cowl with a blast tube blowing on it. On a long extended climb, it will approach 250, but comes back down to 210-220 in cruise. Randy Stout n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > [Original Message] > From: Monty Graves > To: > Date: 2/2/05 11:58:38 AM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Randy Stouts Covair install > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves > > Sounds like your happy with the change over from the VW with redrive it > appears you gained about 15mph cruise with the switch. But still below the > 120 mph claim from ZAC. > > How about engine cooling? Oil Temps? CHT's etc, > > And what prop length and pitch did you end up with. > > Although I am not building the 601, a couple of local guys are, and they > are still considering the VW with redrive. I am trying quietly to get them > to reconsider using it on the 601. Although I still think it "might" be a > good choice for the 701, > > Monty ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: loud turn bank From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin There's only so much you can do to keep noise from being radiated by other electrical circuits in your plane. The best idea is to try to keep that noise from getting into your audio circuits. Something to check: All of the wires carrying audio signals should be shielded. Your audio cables should have two signal wires in a common shield. The shield should not be part of the audio circuit, that is, it should not be carrying any of the audio signal it should serve only as a shield. The shields should be grounded at one end only and all to the same point. Normally all of the audio shields are grounded at the audio panel since all of them lead to or from there. If you don't have an audio panel, you are probably running all of your audio to and from the intercom so this should be where they are grounded. Most audio input and output jacks have one wire connected to the shell of the jack so if you are installing these jacks in a metal panel, you should use insulating washers isolate the shell from ground. This is not to be confused with RF signal cables where generally, both ends of the shield are grounded. With RF cables, the shield is part of the RF circuit. On audio cables, the shield just serves as a barrier to external noise. on 2/2/05 1:12 PM, Jack Russell at clojan@sbcglobal.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell > > Howdy: I hit one of those frustrating things that causes you to stop building > for a couple of days and it is time to get back to it. The problem is the > turn bank. Installed a new sigtronics 200s(sweet stereo intercom) and > everything was quiet on the western front. Then the Icom 200a went in and when > I turn on the radio I can hear the turn bank spinning up. It gets really loud > in the headset. I can touch the back of the turn bank and the noise leaves > for a while but returns. I did run a separate ground from the back of the > instrument direct to the battery but no change. I tried a separate battery to > the t/b (not practical but I thought it would be a good test) and that will > work until I push the transmit on the yoke and the noise appears. I have even > wrapped the t/b in foil. I did not try the radio shack filter yet but I don't > think it will work since the separate battery didn't. > I really wanted to to the dynon(solid state) instead of the t/b but my > checkbook is just about dry. Any Ideas? Thanks in advance > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. In Phase I testing. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:36 PM PST US From: "Phil Maxson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Taildragger weight? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" When I was in his hanger a while ago, William mentioned that he built is tail dragger well before the Zenith option was available. As a result they over-engineered it to be on the safe side. There is a lot of steel in the front of his plane that connects the longerons to the main gear to the firewall. He said that the zenith solution is a lot lighter. In general, one would think a tail wheel plane is lighter than the trike version of the same plane. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair >From: "upnaway.1@netzero.com" > >I just read on flycorvair.com (one of my faves) that a tail dragging XL >weighs more than a trike. Can anyone tell me why? Is there more >strengthening needed in the tail for the tailwheel? If so does it effect >c.g.? I think the tailwheel, especially William Wynne's, XL is one of the >best looking planes there is. > > >Nate ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:36 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Turn & Bank & Noise --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:12 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Turn & Bank Noise --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Do not archive Sorry about the previous empty essage...phone handset fell on mouse, SEND got sent! First of all, you gotta problem! Noise, RF and/or audio is always difficult to find. You already know that. Radio Shack has, or did have, small "cores" as you would use to wind baluns in the world of HF radio. These make fair filters....just make two or three turns of the power lead, NOT the ground, through the core. Makes an RF choke of sorts. Also, get a couple of capacitors. One electrolytic of about 50 microfarad/50 vdc and another, won't be electrolytic, of 0.1 micrfarad at 100vdc. Grounding the ground end of the capacitor, touch the other end to the power input point of each item one at a time to see if the cap has any effect. You'll need to do this with each cap separately at each point. Do same to everything else, one at a time. Sometimes synthesizer circuits within equipments generate stuff that gets out and destroys your day. Surely not the Icom. When you find it, it'll be simple. Note of caution-- these cores are made of a ferrous material, same as a magnet, so bear in mind that high current as when transmitting on the radio (if its power lead runs through a filter) could produce a slight magnetic field.....disturb the compass. This is why well-designed filters have capacitors as well as everything else. Most likely you have one of those forest-and-trees deals where you can't find your own mistake. Fear not, walk backwards through the process. Somewhere you may have counted incorrectly as to pin numbers or which solder tab is which. Been there, done that, and got the gimme cap from Jon's Spring Mfg Co. I can't imagine that the A-200 is at fault, good unit. See if you can dangle all the mic jacks and headset jacks loose from the panel, then re-mount them one at a time or use a clip lead to simulate the panel mount (ground connection). Also, if you used shielded wire, look for just one strand that escaped your gaze and is touching where it shouldn't.....won't take but one to really screw up things. Hope this didn't befuddle your day. Zed/701/912/A-200/visual intercom/90+% do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:21 PM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Baggage shelf --> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" I went flying in Larry McFarland's 601 today. Really smooth BUT to get in you have to support you weight in order to swing your legs in. You NEED a place in between the seat backs. In addition being able to get things like headsets, maps, hats, gloves off the back shelf before and during flight is very handy. Your head also needs room but it up close it off, it will be almost impossible to retrieve anything behind a door or the like. Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair A Service Project of Chapter 75 EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey J Paris" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Baggage shelf > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" > > > Scott, > > I was really psyched to seee your mod for the baggage area! I think it really spruces and tidies up that part of the XL. My Dad and I start tomorrow with the mod. Thanks for the pictures and the idea. > > Sincerely, > > Jeff and Peter Paris > Jab3300 CH601XL > 90% there, 90% to go > > > --- On Wed 02/02, N5SL < nfivesl@yahoo.com > wrote: > From: N5SL [mailto: nfivesl@yahoo.com] > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 08:12:12 -0800 (PST) > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Baggage shelf > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL > > Thanks Grant: > > I actually sat in the airplane for the first time last night to figure out where the seat belt holes should go. I've got some snips, a few files and a dremel tool and if need-be I'll do some more cutting, but it seemed to work OK last night. I look forward to the day I can be flying like you are and report back how everything works! > > One note about the baggage area - I plan to install a BRS canister back there so I'll be losing a lot of that space toward the back. > > Scott Laughlin > N5SL (Reserved) > 601XL/Corvair > www.cooknwithgas.com > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Grant Corriveau wrote: > When I'm strapped into my seat, and I need to reach into the back shelf / > baggage hold to get something, my right arm has to swing up and over the top > of the seat back, > > > --------------------------------- > > > =========================================================== > .matronics.com/zenith-list > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:05 PM PST US From: Capetonian Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger weight? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Capetonian > I just read on flycorvair.com (one of my faves) that a tail dragging XL weighs more than a trike. Can anyone tell me why? Is there more strengthening needed in the tail for the tailwheel? If so does it effect c.g.? I think the tailwheel, especially William Wynne's, XL is one of the best looking planes there is. Hallo all, This is the first time I have responded to the list although I have been lurking for several months. Although I have plans at home for both a Hatz Bipe and a Volksplane I have my heart set on the 601 XL. It will be a long time before I get the money to even really start on the project but I am thinking of ordering a rudder kit in a few months time, ... so that I will be able to build that before the end of the year. I have my heart set on a 601XL taildragger, Corvair powered with the extended range fuel tanks. And indeed that taildragger on the Corvair page is an absolute stunner. I too was confused about the above statement regarding the weight, ... but I also read later that the aircraft had initially been intended to have tricycle gear, maybe this is the cause of some extra weight. I am very interested in the answer too. Andrew (Netherlands) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:47 PM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Size VW for the 701 0.00 FORGED_MUA_EUDORA Forged mail pretending to be from Eudora --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves At 02:07 PM 2/2/05 -0500, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" > >Hello Monty, >what size of a VW do you think would be suitable for the 701? >Regards > >Jean-Paul Roy > My answer is I DON'T KNOW. First I am not a VW engine guy. I have tried over the last few years to learn as much about them as I can but I am still barely a novice. So take anything you read with a grain of salt, and realize its worth exactly what its costing one to read this. I live in Central MO, 30 miles from Gene Smith of Valley Eng VW redrives. 20 miles from B.J. Schwaller, and within 120 mile radius of numerous airplanes that fly VWs. I talk to as many as I can every chance I can. The 1915 VW with 1.6 :1 ratio redrive flys B.J.Schwallers 701 fine. I have seen it take off some 10-15 times, and it compares within a few feet of other 80hp 912 Rotaxes I have observed in take off roll. It climbs great and it cruises about 70-75mph.. But it still doesn't have a lot of hours on it yet. Still less than 40. And I haven't seen it fly at full gross weight.... So its an unproven install. But every indication is that its going to work. Yes it provides the torque and thrust to fly the 701 but is it suitable? And what size is? ME PERSONALLY I think the 1835cc with 1.6: to redrive will perform about like the 582 rotax or a little better, certainly not as good as the 912 rotax 80HP The 1915cc with redrive like Schwaller's somewhere between the 582 and very near or at the 912 80HP level The 2180cc with redrive equal to or better than the 912S 100HP Why/How I come up with this is at the bottom... But there is a lot more to it. Like resale value, insurance, ease of installation, how mechanically engine inclined one is, TBO....... etc etc..... Anyone that will talk to you about VW's will tell you cooling is the thing. As Randy Stout has already told us about in his installation. Its also a given fact that the bigger the cc the harder it is to cool. Randy had trouble keeping his VW cool. Rick Neilsen has a 2180 with redrive on a pusher Kolb, and he claims he doesn't have any trouble with cooling......Its not as easy as one would first think....Its still too early to tell on Schwaller's although so far so good, but no long flights either at a constant 3100 rpm. And few if any will talk about TBO on the bigger engines, even Steve Bennet of Great Plains won't talk about TBO. I know for a fact from several different sources, that the 1835cc, if built with care, flown with care, will last about 500-600 hrs before it needs to be overhauled. But what about the 2180cc. I can't find any flying with over 250 hrs. And I would guess that 300 hrs before overhaul would be the max one could expect unless shown otherwise with examples of the Sonex or Sonerii line of aircraft that might show up in the next couple of years. The small 1835cc or 1915cc is where the price break comes in building the VW. They use the standard crank, and with redrive cost about 3500-$4000 to build, with a complete overhaul costing about 900-$1000 or less (cyclinders, pistons, heads, rings, bearings. case line bore) At these prices SCRATCH builders get interested compared to the Rotaxes. That is a lot of cheap flying over a 25 year period 75-100 hrs per year or less. But the 2180-2275cc VW engines with redrive cost aprox $6000 with an even shorter TBO?. Is it worth it? I am not convinced yet. I want to see some engines with 500 hrs or more and also some engine cooling packages that demonstrate long extened flights with acceptable oil temp numbers and CHTs. There are going to be a lot of Sonex Aero Vee engines out there with numbers coming fairly soon. I have an 1835cc VW engine already so I am going to start with it and go from there... Now for the HOW/WHY Steve Bennet in his latest VW engine assembly manual gave a GREAT example of why a person can't replace a Rotax 582 with a 2180cc VW DIRECT drive VW. The Rotax chart is from their company charts, http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/912-s.htm Rotax engines 582cc produces 55 ft.lbs at 6000 rpm and 63.18 HP 912 produces 76 ft.lbs at 4800 rpm and 80 HP at 5500 rpm 912S produces 94 ft.lbs at 5100 rpm and 91.28 HP at 1352cc and rated 100HP at 5800 VW engines at 3000 rpm chart derived from various engine models and is WAY more conservative than most engine manufacturers numbers. 1600cc produces 87 ft.lbs torque and 50HP 1835cc produces 100 ft.lbs torque and 57 HP 1915cc produces 104 ft.lbs torque and 59 HP 2180cc produces 118 ft.lbs torque and 68 HP 2275cc produces 124 ft.lbs torque and 71HP In Steve Bennets Great Plains engine assembly manual page 52 he claims he has dyno tested his 2180cc VW at 76 HP and 121 ft. lbs of torque (as someone pointed out that would be at 3168 rpm) Its also fairly close to the other VW engine models used above in my chart. Steve also goes on to say in part. The following information was complied from actual Dyno testing of a Great Plains 2180cc VW Direct Drive conversion. Our testing showed 76hp and 121ft. lbs of torque Most correct math models will fall within 10 % of actual output. Propeller diameter. Horsepower is horsepower, torque is torque, but don't forget that propeller diameter! We receive calls from perspective customers wanting to replace their two stroke engine with a four stroke. The potential customer looks at the horsepower and torque numbers. They mistakenly figure that a 2180cc direct drive engine, rated at 76hp and 121\ft. lbs of torque can easily replace their Rotax 582. In most case with high drag aircraft, it can not. A direct drive 2180cc VW can turn up to a 62" diameter prop. The Rotax 582 and 2.58 gear box can easily swing a 72" prop. The difference in static thrust can be as much as 125 pound in favor of the Rotax 582, courtesy of propeller diameter. Example: Rotax 582 develops 65hp and 53.3 ft lbs of torque. When used with a 2.58:1 gear box, the effective torque is 142.67 ft. lbs. of torque, This 26 ft. lbs. more torque than a direct drive 76hp 2180cc VW can produce. not taking into account the larger prop diameter which produces considerably more static thrust. A direct drive VW engine has to turn 3000+ rpm's to develop its's useable horsepower. Because of this it is limited by propeller diameter. For example, a direct drive 2180cc VW turning a 62" diameter prop at 3300 rpm has tip speed of 892ft./sc. Wood props in general try to keep the tip speed below 900 ft./sc. A 2180cc direct drive VW with a 62" prop will produce between 275 and 300 pounds of static thrust. A 582 Rotax running at 6000 rpm with a 2.58 gear box using a 72" diameter prop has a prop speed of 2,325 rpm's or 729 ft./sc tip speed. The Rotax 582 can produce over 400 pounds of static thrust with this diameter. A Reduction Drive Unit can be added to the VW motor so that it can turn 68" to 84" Props END of Steve Bennet Quote: This should point out to ANYONE considering a DIRECT drive VW for a 701 why it is NOT a good choice. Above I posted here that I thought the 1835 VW with Valley Eng redrive was going to work with the CH 701. The torque multiplier effect of the redrive is why. When we compare the 1835cc VW with a 1.6:1 redrive with the 582 Rotax with a 2.58 we see that we can get about 162 ft.lbs of torque AT THE PROP with the VW compared to the 142.67 of the Rotax. B.J.'s 1915 VW is swinging the same 72 inch three blade as the Rotax but with a larger pitch than the 582rotax. Comparing the 2180cc VW or the 2275cc VW with a 2.1:1 redrive to the 912s you can see why anyone that has flown in or observed Gene Smith's engines fly will believe him when he says his 2275cc VW engine redrive prop package will outperform the 100HP Rotax. 2180cc VW produces 118 ft.lbs of torque and with he 2.1:1 redrive produces 247 ft.lbs of torque at the prop, versus the 912S 94 ft.lbs using a 2.43 reduction developing 228 ft.lbs. of torque at the prop. Another example: The 912 produces 76 ft. lbs of torque and uses a 2.27 : 1 redrive or 172.52 ft lbs of torque at the prop Compare this to the simplified chart below VW's cc and torque at prop using a redrive 1834 162 ft lbs 1915 166 2180 247 ft lbs Compared to the Rotaxes torque at the prop with their redrives 582 143 ft lbs 912 173 ft lbs. 912s 228 ft lbs HOWEVER: notice in all cases the VW has to swing a LARGER slower turning prop than the Rotax. I believe the law of dimensioning returns is working when it comes to speeds above about 90-100 mph and using redives. It could be drag factor or maybe larger slower turning props lose their effiiecny more quickely than the faster turning smaller diameter props. I will leave this for others to debate this, but I think it is one reason Randy Stout found the VW redrive combo unacceptable on the 601. If Randy read this far... :-) maybe he can tell us what the torque of the Corvair is. Monty At 02:07 PM 2/2/05 -0500, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" > >Hello Monty, >what size of a VW do you think would be suitable for the 701? >Regards > >Jean-Paul Roy > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:36 PM PST US From: "Jean-Paul Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Size VW for the 701 0.00 FORGED_MUA_EUDORA Forged mail pretending to be from Eudora --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" Thanks kindly Monty Jean-Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Monty Graves" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Size VW for the 701 0.00 FORGED_MUA_EUDORA Forged mail pretending to be from Eudora > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves > > At 02:07 PM 2/2/05 -0500, you wrote: > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" > > > > >Hello Monty, > >what size of a VW do you think would be suitable for the 701? > >Regards > > > >Jean-Paul Roy > > > > My answer is I DON'T KNOW. > > First I am not a VW engine guy. I have tried over the last few years to learn > as much about them as I can but I am still barely a novice. So take anything > you read with a grain of salt, and realize its worth exactly what its costing > one to read this. I live in Central MO, 30 miles from Gene Smith of Valley > Eng > VW redrives. 20 miles from B.J. Schwaller, and within 120 mile radius of > numerous airplanes that fly VWs. I talk to as many as I can every chance I > can. > > The 1915 VW with 1.6 :1 ratio redrive flys B.J.Schwallers 701 fine. I have > seen it take off some 10-15 times, and it compares within a few feet of other > 80hp 912 Rotaxes I have observed in take off roll. It climbs great and it > cruises about 70-75mph.. But it still doesn't have a lot of hours on it yet. > Still less than 40. And I haven't seen it fly at full gross weight.... So its > an unproven install. But every indication is that its going to work. > > Yes it provides the torque and thrust to fly the 701 but is it suitable? And > what size is? > > ME PERSONALLY > > I think the 1835cc with 1.6: to redrive will perform about like the 582 rotax > or a little better, certainly not as good as the 912 rotax 80HP > The 1915cc with redrive like Schwaller's somewhere between the 582 and very > near or at the 912 80HP level > The 2180cc with redrive equal to or better than the 912S 100HP > > Why/How I come up with this is at the bottom... > > But there is a lot more to it. > > Like resale value, insurance, ease of installation, how mechanically engine > inclined one is, TBO....... etc etc..... > > Anyone that will talk to you about VW's will tell you cooling is the thing. > As Randy Stout has already told us about in his installation. Its also a > given > fact that the bigger the cc the harder it is to cool. Randy had trouble > keeping > his VW cool. Rick Neilsen has a 2180 with redrive on a pusher Kolb, and he > claims he doesn't have any trouble with cooling......Its not as easy as one > would first think....Its still too early to tell on Schwaller's although so > far > so good, but no long flights either at a constant 3100 rpm. And few if any > will talk about TBO on the bigger engines, even Steve Bennet of Great Plains > won't talk about TBO. > > I know for a fact from several different sources, that the 1835cc, if built > with care, flown with care, will last about 500-600 hrs before it needs to be > overhauled. But what about the 2180cc. I can't find any flying with over > 250 > hrs. And I would guess that 300 hrs before overhaul would be the max one > could > expect unless shown otherwise with examples of the Sonex or Sonerii line of > aircraft that might show up in the next couple of years. > > The small 1835cc or 1915cc is where the price break comes in building the VW. > They use the standard crank, and with redrive cost about 3500-$4000 to build, > with a complete overhaul costing about 900-$1000 or less (cyclinders, > pistons, > heads, rings, bearings. case line bore) At these prices SCRATCH builders get > interested compared to the Rotaxes. That is a lot of cheap flying over a 25 > year period 75-100 hrs per year or less. > > But the 2180-2275cc VW engines with redrive cost aprox $6000 with an even > shorter TBO?. Is it worth it? I am not convinced yet. I want to see some > engines with 500 hrs or more and also some engine cooling packages that > demonstrate long extened flights with acceptable oil temp numbers and CHTs. > There are going to be a lot of Sonex Aero Vee engines out there with numbers > coming fairly soon. > > I have an 1835cc VW engine already so I am going to start with it and go from > there... > > Now for the HOW/WHY > > > Steve Bennet in his latest VW engine assembly manual gave a GREAT example of > why a person can't replace a Rotax 582 with a 2180cc VW DIRECT drive VW. > > The Rotax chart is from their company charts, > http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/912-s.htm > > Rotax engines > > 582cc produces 55 ft.lbs at 6000 rpm and 63.18 HP > 912 produces 76 ft.lbs at 4800 rpm and 80 HP at 5500 rpm > 912S produces 94 ft.lbs at 5100 rpm and 91.28 HP at 1352cc and rated 100HP > at 5800 > > VW engines at 3000 rpm chart derived from various engine models and is WAY > more > conservative > than most engine manufacturers numbers. > > 1600cc produces 87 ft.lbs torque and 50HP > 1835cc produces 100 ft.lbs torque and 57 HP > 1915cc produces 104 ft.lbs torque and 59 HP > 2180cc produces 118 ft.lbs torque and 68 HP > 2275cc produces 124 ft.lbs torque and 71HP > > In Steve Bennets Great Plains engine assembly manual page 52 he claims he > has dyno tested his 2180cc VW at 76 HP and 121 ft. lbs of torque (as someone > pointed out that would be at 3168 rpm) Its also fairly close to the > other VW engine models used above in my chart. > > Steve also goes on to say in part. > The following information was complied from actual Dyno testing of a Great > Plains 2180cc VW Direct Drive conversion. Our testing showed 76hp and > 121ft. lbs of torque Most correct math models will fall within 10 % of > actual output. > Propeller diameter. Horsepower is horsepower, torque is torque, but don't > forget that propeller diameter! We receive calls from perspective customers > wanting to replace their two stroke engine with a four stroke. The > potential customer looks at the horsepower and torque numbers. They > mistakenly figure that a 2180cc direct drive engine, rated at 76hp and > 121\ft. lbs of torque can easily replace their Rotax 582. In most case with > high drag aircraft, it can not. A direct drive 2180cc VW can turn up to a > 62" diameter prop. The Rotax 582 and 2.58 gear box can easily swing a 72" > prop. The difference in static thrust can be as much as 125 pound in favor > of the Rotax 582, courtesy of propeller diameter. > Example: Rotax 582 develops 65hp and 53.3 ft lbs of torque. When used with > a 2.58:1 gear box, the effective torque is 142.67 ft. lbs. of torque, This > 26 ft. lbs. more torque than a direct drive 76hp 2180cc VW can produce. not > taking into account the larger prop diameter which produces considerably > more static thrust. > A direct drive VW engine has to turn 3000+ rpm's to develop its's useable > horsepower. Because of this it is limited by propeller diameter. For > example, a direct drive 2180cc VW turning a 62" diameter prop at 3300 rpm > has tip speed of 892ft./sc. Wood props in general try to keep the tip speed > below 900 ft./sc. A 2180cc direct drive VW with a 62" prop will produce > between 275 and 300 pounds of static thrust. A 582 Rotax running at 6000 > rpm with a 2.58 gear box using a 72" diameter prop has a prop speed of > 2,325 rpm's or 729 ft./sc tip speed. The Rotax 582 can produce over 400 > pounds of static thrust with this diameter. A Reduction Drive Unit can be > added to the VW motor so that it can turn 68" to 84" Props > END of Steve Bennet Quote: > > This should point out to ANYONE considering a DIRECT drive VW for a 701 why it > is > NOT a good choice. > > Above I posted here that I thought the 1835 VW with Valley Eng redrive was > going > to work with the CH 701. The torque multiplier effect of the redrive is > why. > When we compare the 1835cc VW with a 1.6:1 redrive with the 582 Rotax with > a 2.58 we see that we can get about 162 ft.lbs of torque AT THE PROP with > the VW compared to the 142.67 of the Rotax. B.J.'s 1915 VW is swinging > the same 72 inch three blade as the Rotax but with a larger pitch than the > 582rotax. > > Comparing the 2180cc VW or the 2275cc VW with a 2.1:1 redrive to the 912s > you can see why anyone that has flown in or observed Gene Smith's engines > fly will believe him when he says his 2275cc VW engine redrive prop package > will outperform the 100HP Rotax. > > 2180cc VW produces 118 ft.lbs of torque and with he 2.1:1 redrive produces > 247 ft.lbs of torque at the prop, versus the 912S 94 ft.lbs using a 2.43 > reduction developing 228 ft.lbs. of torque at the prop. > > Another example: The 912 produces 76 ft. lbs of torque and uses a 2.27 : 1 > redrive or 172.52 ft lbs of torque at the prop Compare this to the simplified > chart below > > VW's cc and torque at prop using a redrive > 1834 162 ft lbs > 1915 166 > 2180 247 ft lbs > > Compared to the Rotaxes torque at the prop with their redrives > 582 143 ft lbs > 912 173 ft lbs. > 912s 228 ft lbs > > HOWEVER: notice in all cases the VW has to swing a LARGER slower turning > prop than the Rotax. I believe the law of dimensioning returns is > working when it comes to speeds above about 90-100 mph and using redives. > It could be drag factor or maybe larger slower turning props lose their > effiiecny more quickely than the faster turning smaller diameter props. I > will leave this for others to debate this, but I think it is one reason Randy > Stout found the VW redrive combo unacceptable on the 601. > > If Randy read this far... :-) maybe he can tell us what the torque of the > Corvair is. > > Monty > > > At 02:07 PM 2/2/05 -0500, you wrote: > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" > > > > >Hello Monty, > >what size of a VW do you think would be suitable for the 701? > >Regards > > > >Jean-Paul Roy > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:43 PM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Size VW for the 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" William advertises it at 160 ft./lbs. @2,800 rpm. Is it correct? Beats me. I do know the 2180 VW with 1.6:1 redrive would beat the Corvair off the runway and out climb it until the temps started knocking on the 425 mark. That's when the Corvair would leave the VW in the dust. Randy Stout n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > If Randy read this far... :-) maybe he can tell us what the torque of the > Corvair is. > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:54 PM PST US From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" Food for thought; I am a Sales Engineer for a large Tool & Die Company (600 Employees) and we design and build progressive dies and provide precision components for transfer presses along with a lot of other applications. A few years ago, before I changed territories, one of my customers was a manufacturer of high quality blind rivets and I visited their operation to try and determine why they were having a difficult time with one of our dies that had operated for years without problems. They were unable to achieve the same long runs and stay within specification as they had in the past. The problem was solved but my point is this: The die was still making part number (whatever) but the rivets were junk, they had a very good quality program so the bad parts were not shipped. Zenith has had problems in the past with certain manufacturers that could not make quality rivets consistently, eventually they found a company they could rely on. Zenith is now working with the Chinese and in their news letter Chris stated: "We are in the process of setting up an extra test so that we can continue guaranteeing the correct shear strength of the rivets Zenair and ZAC supply." I have not spoke with anyone at Zenair so this is just my opinion, I believe the Chinese have come a long way but most don't seem to have a good QC system, I feel sure that's the reason Zenair is setting up a quality program that is usually done by the manufacturer. I can't help but wonder if the aircraft part suppliers are checking the quality of the rivets they are selling, if not, it would be a good idea to check the rivets yourselves. Clyde Barcus CH 601XL Builder ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:56 PM PST US From: "Mike H" Subject: Zenith-List: Shipping charges (Thanks Guys!) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H" ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:24 PM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Turn & Bank Noise --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Zed: I hope you don't mind but I took the liberty of reposting your response and taking off your do not archiv*. Your post along with several other good responses gave me many more clues to follow for the radio noise problem. I think your answer is important in the archive for later reference. I did try the choke you mentioned today and when I first turned on the Turn bank the noise was gone. Keyed the mike several times and no noise. Keyed it a few more and the noise returned until I spoke in the intercom and the noise left. It is still a problem but I think we might be on to something. Thanks to all who helped. Jack in Clovis,Ca Zed Smith wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith First of all, you gotta problem! Noise, RF and/or audio is always difficult to find. You already know that. Radio Shack has, or did have, small "cores" as you would use to wind baluns in the world of HF radio. These make fair filters....just make two or three turns of the power lead, NOT the ground, through the core. Makes an RF choke of sorts. Also, get a couple of capacitors. One electrolytic of about 50 microfarad/50 vdc and another, won't be electrolytic, of 0.1 micrfarad at 100vdc. Grounding the ground end of the capacitor, touch the other end to the power input point of each item one at a time to see if the cap has any effect. You'll need to do this with each cap separately at each point. Do same to everything else, one at a time. Sometimes synthesizer circuits within equipments generate stuff that gets out and destroys your day. Surely not the Icom. When you find it, it'll be simple. Note of caution-- these cores are made of a ferrous material, same as a magnet, so bear in mind that high current as when transmitting on the radio (if its power lead runs through a filter) could produce a slight magnetic field.....disturb the compass. This is why well-designed filters have capacitors as well as everything else. Most likely you have one of those forest-and-trees deals where you can't find your own mistake. Fear not, walk backwards through the process. Somewhere you may have counted incorrectly as to pin numbers or which solder tab is which. Been there, done that, and got the gimme cap from Jon's Spring Mfg Co. I can't imagine that the A-200 is at fault, good unit. See if you can dangle all the mic jacks and headset jacks loose from the panel, then re-mount them one at a time or use a clip lead to simulate the panel mount (ground connection). Also, if you used shielded wire, look for just one strand that escaped your gaze and is touching where it shouldn't.....won't take but one to really screw up things. Hope this didn't befuddle your day. Zed/701/912/A-200/visual intercom/90+% ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:33 PM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Turn & Bank Noise --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" Jack, Good job. I agree. I actually saved that last Zed post in my personal files as this was an excellent primer on hunting down noise and how to attempt some excellent erradication techniques in an aircraft. The wondeful world of RF electronic signal phenomena (read: radio signals, the ones we want and the ones that cause interference) is often not well understood by many of us and posts like this one are quite valuable. Actually, was hoping Zed could elaborate even more on this area, as the mood suits him. How often have you wondered what that 'bump' was on your power cord, or telephone cord, entering your electronic equipment.... the balun ! My post, this one right now - is an example of a do not archive post! do not archive ! > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell > > Zed: I hope you don't mind but I took the liberty of reposting your > response and taking off your do not archiv*. Your post along with several > other good responses gave me many more clues to follow for the radio noise > problem. I think your answer is important in the archive for later > reference. I did try the choke you mentioned today and when I first turned > on the Turn bank the noise was gone. Keyed the mike several times and no > noise. Keyed it a few more and the noise returned until I spoke in the > intercom and the noise left. It is still a problem but I think we might be > on to something. Thanks to all who helped. Jack in Clovis,Ca > > Zed Smith wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > > > First of all, you gotta problem! > > Noise, RF and/or audio is always difficult to find. You already know that. > Radio Shack has, or did have, small "cores" as you would use to wind > baluns in the world of HF radio. > These make fair filters....just make two or three turns of the power lead, > NOT the ground, through the core. > Makes an RF choke of sorts. > > Also, get a couple of capacitors. One electrolytic of about 50 > microfarad/50 vdc and another, won't be electrolytic, of 0.1 micrfarad at > 100vdc. > > Grounding the ground end of the capacitor, touch the other end to the > power input point of each item one at a time to see if the cap has any > effect. You'll need to do this with each cap separately at each point. > Do same to everything else, one at a time. > > Sometimes synthesizer circuits within equipments generate stuff that gets > out and destroys your day. > Surely not the Icom. When you find it, it'll be simple. > > Note of caution-- these cores are made of a ferrous material, same as a > magnet, so bear in mind that high current as when transmitting on the > radio (if its power lead runs through a filter) could produce a slight > magnetic field.....disturb the compass. This is why well-designed filters > have capacitors as well as everything else. > > Most likely you have one of those forest-and-trees deals where you can't > find your own mistake. > Fear not, walk backwards through the process. Somewhere you may have > counted incorrectly as to pin numbers or which solder tab is which. Been > there, done that, and got the gimme cap from Jon's Spring Mfg Co. > > I can't imagine that the A-200 is at fault, good unit. > See if you can dangle all the mic jacks and headset jacks loose from the > panel, then re-mount them one at a time or use a clip lead to simulate the > panel mount (ground connection). > > Also, if you used shielded wire, look for just one strand that escaped > your gaze and is touching where it shouldn't.....won't take but one to > really screw up things. > > Hope this didn't befuddle your day. > > Zed/701/912/A-200/visual intercom/90+% > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:24 PM PST US From: "Jim Frisby" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Continental 0200 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" You might want to talk to : Harold Maness - (907) 357-8190 - , Wasilla, AK 99654 He scratch built a 701 a number of years ago, used the O-200 he's still flying it. Jim Frisby Palmer, AK N801ZA >> HI 701 Builders >> Has anyone put a Continental 0200 in a 701?? >> I like the no water lines,no oil lines no oil cooler, no water >>cooler >> also no gear box and low engine rpms. >> Has anyone tried it ??? >> Tail, flaps,slats done working on fuselage. >> Vernon Knott in R. I. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:36 PM PST US From: "Brett " Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: 601 Models (was kit selection) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " They way we were wanting to do it was build LSA ready to go. But That is hard and slow to get going. So what we are having to do is just like the last one we did. And the one we are doing now. Build it register it fly off the test time and then we sell it. Yes it's a hassel but look at the bright side you get a plane that's already tested. Oh and by the way we can install other engines. There's just a price increase. Depending on the engine. Thanks Brett Ray www.hog-air.com ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:25 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Zenith-List: Re: COM static on 123.05 --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl No COM noise until about 125 hours. Then it was very annoying at certain frequencies. I inspected all of the connections shields and grounds. I tried filters on some power leads - no help with radiated noise. I noticed that there was some play in the distributor caps. I shimmed the clamps - and the noise went away. Problem solved. Joe E N633Z @ BFI 160 hours, Jabiru 3300 http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/ Joe E wrote:- 05 Jan 05 > I've been scratching my head and searching the archives about this > problem. No static on 120.6 or 118.3. Static on 123.05 and 122.7. > My COM worked fine for > 125 hours and now this. . . . . . .