---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/03/05: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:30 AM - Re: Taildragger weight? (Jake Reyna) 2. 06:16 AM - rainy day fun (ron dewees) 3. 06:33 AM - Re: rainy day fun (ron wehba) 4. 07:48 AM - Re: Rainy day fun (Zed Smith) 5. 09:11 AM - Re: ZAC (Ron Butterfield) 6. 10:15 AM - OT priceless OT (Rmtnview@aol.com) 7. 10:30 AM - BRS chute (Richard Vetterli) 8. 10:54 AM - Re: BRS chute (N5SL) 9. 03:59 PM - Re: ZAC (Gary Gower) 10. 04:22 PM - N114AR First Flight (Alejandro Roca) 11. 04:36 PM - Re: Wynne taildragger gear legs (Monty Graves) 12. 04:53 PM - Re: N114AR First Flight (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 13. 04:58 PM - Re: N114AR First Flight (Gary Gower) 14. 05:26 PM - Re: Wynne taildragger gear legs (Bob Reinero) 15. 05:34 PM - Re: N114AR First Flight (Al Young) 16. 05:36 PM - Re: N114AR First Flight (Bob Miller) 17. 05:44 PM - Re: N114AR First Flight (Larry McFarland) 18. 07:16 PM - Re: ZAC (Larry Martin) 19. 07:33 PM - Re: N114AR First Flight (ron dewees) 20. 07:34 PM - Joke (Rmtnview@aol.com) 21. 07:42 PM - Re: Joke (Bill Howerton) 22. 09:57 PM - Re: Joke (Gary Gower) 23. 10:12 PM - Re: ZAC (Gary Miller) 24. 10:49 PM - Re: ZAC (Gary Gower) 25. 11:57 PM - Re: ZAC (Richard McLachlan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:43 AM PST US From: "Jake Reyna" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Taildragger weight? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jake Reyna" I've been visiting William Wynne's website for a couple of years and you can piece together some additional empty weight information. It appears he uses the factory supplied spring gear, 600x6 tires and a heavier taildragger option. Brandon Tucker did some research and using the Grove Aircraft gear will save 15 pounds, they also have wheels that will save you another pound. Using 500x5 tires will save another 7.5 pounds. Let's say that William's taildragger solution is 2.5 pounds heavier than the factory, plus he has some tricycle gear components. His latest Newsletter shows the instrument panel and it's not glass, but I'm not going to count that since many builders seem to pack their panels. Adding up the potential weight savings of the gear, tires and his taildragger solution amounts to 25 pounds. He states that the weight on November 28, 2004 is 750 pounds. http://www.flycorvair.com/601.html Seems like a motivated builder could easily build a Corvair powered XL weighing less than 730 pounds. You could probably drop another 10-20 going to a glass panel. Many have stated over the years that building light is the most important step. Planes, like people gain weight over the years. I'm not going to wait to see if these are theoretical numbers, this is the path I've chosen for the XL that's sitting in my workshop. I'll keep the list posted. Jake ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:59 AM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Zenith-List: rainy day fun --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Hi builders, pilots and RC veterans, I know this is sort of off the topic and I will accept a knuckle slap before it can be administered, But a pilot friend of mine knew I was a former RC flyer and sent me this link. If you don't have access to a high speed connection I guess you are out of luck, but if you do, this is the most fantastic RC exhibition I have ever seen. Looks like it was flown inside a school basketball gym. http://www.fan-tasticmodels.com/muller.wmv What's next- an electric 601? Enjoy Ron N601TD DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:05 AM PST US From: "ron wehba" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: rainy day fun --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ron wehba" now that is CONTROL,,wow! ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron dewees" Subject: Zenith-List: rainy day fun > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees > > Hi builders, pilots and RC veterans, > I know this is sort of off the topic and I will accept a knuckle slap > before it can be administered, But a pilot friend of mine knew I was a > former RC flyer and sent me this link. > If you don't have access to a high speed connection I guess you are > out of luck, but if you do, this is the most fantastic RC exhibition I > have ever seen. Looks like it was flown inside a school basketball gym. > http://www.fan-tasticmodels.com/muller.wmv > > What's next- an electric 601? > > Enjoy > Ron N601TD > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:47 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rainy day fun --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith This is GOOD! Is there something several magnitudes greater than "Wow!"? Thanks for the link. Zed do not archive Smith ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:50 AM PST US From: Ron Butterfield Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Butterfield At 02:56 AM 2/3/05, Richard McLachlan wrote: >On two occasions I have e mailed questions to them about our 601HDS, one >about a serious problem, and I have never even had the courtesy of a reply. When you send an email, to anyone, do not automatically assume that they received it. With the proliferation of spam, and ISP's percieved need to attempt to control it, internet services & mail services are using many and varied methods to control it. Sometimes they work, and sometimes they throw the baby out with the bathwater. There was just a lawsuit filed where a large-ish service provider automatically blocked ALL mail originating from Europe and Asia. This was done without the knowledge or consent of their customers. So, if you send anyone an email, and do not get a response in a reasonable time, spring for a telephone call before getting all upset. Regards, RonB ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:15:12 AM PST US From: Rmtnview@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: OT priceless OT --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com SMART MAN!!!!!!!!!! Jack wakes up at home with a huge hangover he can't believe. He forces himself to open his eyes, and the first thing he sees is a couple of a aspirins next to a glass of water on the side table. And, next to them, a single red rose! Jack sits down and sees his clothing in front of him, all clean and pressed. Jack looks around the room and sees that it is in perfect order, Spotlessly clean. So is the rest of the house. He takes the aspirins, cringes when he sees a huge black eye staring back at him in the bathroom mirror, and notices a note on the table: "Honey, breakfast is on the stove, I left early to go shopping--Love you!" He stumbles to the kitchen and sure enough, there is hot breakfast and the morning newspaper. His son is also at the table, eating. Jack asks, "Son...what happened last night?" "Well, you came home after 3 A.M., drunk and out of your mind. You broke some furniture, puked in the hallway, and got that black eye when you ran into the door." "So, why is everything in such perfect order, so clean, I have a rose, and breakfast is on the table waiting for me?" His son replies, "Oh THAT!... Mom dragged you to the bedroom, and when she tried to take your pants off, you screamed, "Leave me alone, lady, I'm married!" Broken furniture - $85.26 Hot Breakfast - $4.20 Red Rose bud -$3.00 Two Aspirins -$.38 Saying the right thing, at the right time.........Priceless. DO NOT ARCHIVE do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:30:37 AM PST US From: Richard Vetterli Subject: Zenith-List: BRS chute --> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard Vetterli Scott L. How are you doing the BRS? The only plans I've seen have ugly straps mounted on the outside of the fus and covered with aluminum tape. I'd thought about the BRS, but could'nt find a reasonable way to install it. Rich Vetterli 601XL WW Corvair Tail finished, starting wings soon. __________________________________ http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:56 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: BRS chute --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Hi Rich. Where there's a will there's a way. I'm working on a few ideas. BRS does not have drawings for the XL model. The 601 drawings they have don't work with the XL and they don't help much with the strap routing. I have beefed up my firewall already. This was a modification recommended by BRS when I contacted them earlier this year. It's the green parts in this picture: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/12_24_04_NoseFork.JPG I'm pretty sure the main gear attachment (6-B-11-4) will be an excellent place to connect the rear straps. I'm considering using steel cable instead of the Kevlar strapping since it's smaller and easier to conceal. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. There is a good drawing on the BRS site for the Egress Port here: http://www.brsparachutes.com/TI_drawingcategories.mgi?drawingcategory=Egress+Ports&title=Egress+Port+for+Aluminum You may have to cut and paste it since it's a long URL. I ordered and received one of the BRS recommended attachment fittings to see what it would look like and how much trouble it would be to mount. They are proud of them at $12 each and you need 8 for the 601. The prices keep going up so by the time I get there, the parachute may cost more than the airplane. Scott Laughlin N5SL (Reserved) www.cooknwithgas.com Richard Vetterli wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard Vetterli Scott L. How are you doing the BRS? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:59:04 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Hello Richard, I have talked and emailed with ZAC and with CHEZ several times, always had an answer from them (a good one). What I think happend in your case is what we call here in Mexico "a little stone in a rice soup" with all the care we do in our work, sometimes someone will not end happy... We all try in our bussiness to bring this as minimal as cero events as possible, but with all our care, I dont know why, has to happen... we have a fast food carts factory and we make some of them to "client design" so imagine sometimes the effort to have every client happy... I have only good experience in 4 years and 2 airplanes (one from ZAC and one from CHEZ), just imagine the amount of emails and phone calls we have with them... I sincerely hope you have better luck and most important we should always have good predisposition with everything we do and with all the people we deal... (Mother in Law included :-). Just my point of view. Saludos Gary Gower Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico. In this side of the Atlantic :-) Richard McLachlan wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" That may be so if you are on your side of the Atlantic. Seen from here in the UK, they are awful. On two occasions I have e mailed questions to them about our 601HDS, one about a serious problem, and I have never even had the courtesy of a reply. True, our kit came from the Czech factory but I would have expected a response of some sort even if it was referring me somewhere else. That coupled with the fact that the support from the UK importer is also dreadful means that Zenair buyers in the UK are totally on their own. Nice product, but if I was starting again I would not buy a Zenair for that reason alone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > As traffic is light, and I'm "unbusy", here is some feedback that new subscribers - specialy those > still undecided about which project to take. > > I'm building a CH601 from scratch, and will probably install the dual sticks option provided by > ZAC - I already acquired the plans. > While studying the drawings, I noticed that the XL front bearing plate (6B17-1) is different from > the HD's. > I then wrote to ZAC, explained the situation and asked for the dimentions on that part. > > Twenty-four hours later I received an email from ZAC with a scanned picture of the part and a link > to the XL building manual. > (I also posted the question on this list, and Neil Hulin beat ZAC by 12 h - thanks once again, > Neil). > > As you see, ZAC is pretty darn good. Not perfect, but pretty darn good. > > > Happy building > > Carlos > > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:33 PM PST US From: Alejandro Roca Subject: Zenith-List: N114AR First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: Alejandro Roca To ALL I am Happy to report that the first flight of N114AR (Zociac XL - Jabiru 3300) went beyond my expectations. I received my airworthiness certificate on 1/15 but had to wait until today due to bad weather. Finally today here in South Texas (San Antonio) winds were calm, ceilings at 25000 ft and OAT at around 45F. I Went to work this morning and looked at this weekends forecast which called for more rain and decided it was now or never. After telling my boss that I was taking the day off, I then called my Tech counselor and my hangar mate (did the radios) and made plans to meet at the airport. After a thorough preflight I jumped in and started down the runway. I performed one last high speed taxi test where I raised the nose slightly so as to feel comfortable that I would have enough elevator authority (should not have been an issue since my calculated takeoff CG was at 26% of MAC and my take off weight at 1037 lbs). During this test I reported to base that I felt a nose wheel shimmy going down the runway. Not considering this a big problem we decided to go. I applied full power and saw about 2600 2700 on climb out. Not until I saw some pictures did I realize that I took off in what seemed less that 500 ft and that I was climbing like a bat out of hell. Once at pattern altitude my hottest CHT was getting close to max (349F) I reduced power and temps immediately got back to normal. After doing some gentle maneuvers I was ecstatic to realize that I did not have a heavy left wing and that I could perfectly trim the aircraft for level flight. After reporting to base the hottest CHT at 323F and the lowest being 215F I realized I am going to have to add some deflectors inside the Jabirus baffles so as to force the air around cylinders # 3 and #4. Oil temps at 160F might be on the low side. All in all the Jabiru performed flawlessly. After a couple of minutes of Googoo gaga I was reminded by the ground crew to climb to 5500 ft and start working on slow flight. I cant say enough about how responsive this a/c is to the touch, even in slow flight. I did not perform a stall (I will leave that for next flight). At 5500 at about 2600 rpm I was showing 110 mph. (I have no wheel pants). After about 40 minutes into the flight I decided to prepare for landing. I flew the pattern and turned onto final at about 90mph (a little too fast), but once I cut the power, it sure slowed down! Landing was probably not one of my best but since I am not used to the a/c, it was better that I expected. I will report more performance numbers later in the testing phase. Thank you to this list and all who participate in it by providing experience, knowledge and most of all, differences in opinions! This has been an incredible journey that in many ways has just started. Thank you Alex Roca Zodiac XL serial 6-5106 (Jab 3300) San Antonio TX ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:47 PM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: Re: Zenith-List:Wynne taildragger gear legs --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves Did William Wynne use a longer gear leg, than the standard Zenith gear on his 601 XL tail dragger? M ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:36 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: N114AR First Flight From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Nice one, I remember the swelled chest and stupid grin I had when I typed a similar message 5 years ago...:) Good Job Alex! Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alejandro Roca Subject: Zenith-List: N114AR First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: Alejandro Roca To ALL I am Happy to report that the first flight of N114AR (Zociac XL - Jabiru 3300) went beyond my expectations. I ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:43 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N114AR First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Alex, CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! Keep us posted about your tests and flight experience. Saludos Gary Gower Do not archive. Alejandro Roca wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Alejandro Roca To ALL I am Happy to report that the first flight of N114AR (Zociac XL - Jabiru 3300) went beyond my expectations. I received my airworthiness certificate on 1/15 but had to wait until today due to bad weather. Finally today here in South Texas (San Antonio) winds were calm, ceilings at 25000 ft and OAT at around 45F. I Went to work this morning and looked at this weekends forecast which called for more rain and decided it was now or never. After telling my boss that I was taking the day off, I then called my Tech counselor and my hangar mate (did the radios) and made plans to meet at the airport. After a thorough preflight I jumped in and started down the runway. I performed one last high speed taxi test where I raised the nose slightly so as to feel comfortable that I would have enough elevator authority (should not have been an issue since my calculated takeoff CG was at 26% of MAC and my take off weight at 1037 lbs). During this test I reported to base that I felt a n! ose wheel shimmy going down the runway. Not considering this a big problem we decided to go. I applied full power and saw about 2600 2700 on climb out. Not until I saw some pictures did I realize that I took off in what seemed less that 500 ft and that I was climbing like a bat out of hell. Once at pattern altitude my hottest CHT was getting close to max (349F) I reduced power and temps immediately got back to normal. After doing some gentle maneuvers I was ecstatic to realize that I did not have a heavy left wing and that I could perfectly trim the aircraft for level flight. After reporting to base the hottest CHT at 323F and the lowest being 215F I realized I am going to have to add some deflectors inside the Jabirus baffles so as to force the air around cylinders # 3 and #4. Oil temps at 160F might be on the low side. All in all the Jabiru performed flawlessly. After a couple of minutes of Googoo gaga I was reminded by the ground crew to climb to 5500 ft and start working on slow flight. I cant say enough about how responsive this a/c is to the touch, ev! en in slow flight. I did not perform a stall (I will leave that for next flight). At 5500 at about 2600 rpm I was showing 110 mph. (I have no wheel pants). After about 40 minutes into the flight I decided to prepare for landing. I flew the pattern and turned onto final at about 90mph (a little too fast), but once I cut the power, it sure slowed down! Landing was probably not one of my best but since I am not used to the a/c, it was better that I expected. I will report more performance numbers later in the testing phase. Thank you to this list and all who participate in it by providing experience, knowledge and most of all, differences in opinions! This has been an incredible journey that in many ways has just started. Thank you Alex Roca Zodiac XL serial 6-5106 (Jab 3300) San Antonio TX --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:22 PM PST US From: "Bob Reinero" Subject: Re: Zenith-List:Wynne taildragger gear legs --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Reinero" I just ordered the Grove gear and the 500/5 wheels and break set up for the weight saving, gun drilled break lines and heat treated spring gear. Grove added 2" to the plans layout supplied by Zenith to make up for the switch from 600/6 to 500/5. They are also building a heat treated aluminum tail spring for me too. If anyone has installed their Grove gear let me know how you handled the new narrower width of the gear in the steel mounting bracket. The width of the wheel track remains the same but the width of the material is narrower, and the Zenith bracket is wider were the two bolts clamp the gear leg. I visited the Grove shop and was very impressed with the array of gear being produced and the storehouse of knowledge and the willingness to share. Their product is superbly made and finely finished. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Monty Graves" Subject: Re: Zenith-List:Wynne taildragger gear legs > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves > > Did William Wynne use a longer gear leg, than the standard Zenith gear on > his 601 XL tail dragger? > > M > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:11 PM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N114AR First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" Alex- Congrats!! I'm just about one month behind you so will look forward to your next reports. I have the Jab also, so please keep us informed. What a great day for you!! Way to go!!1 Regards, Al Young, Installing the vacuum system. 601XL ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:14 PM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N114AR First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Alex, Thanks! I never realized how much fun a vicarious first-flight could be. Many congratulations. Bob DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:53 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N114AR First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Congratulations Alex. It's a whole new adventure for you now. Please keep us posted on your test flight data as you fly thru it. Larry McFarland - 601HDS Stratus Do not archive Subject: Zenith-List: N114AR First Flight > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Alejandro Roca > > To ALL > > I am Happy to report that the first flight of N114AR (Zociac XL - > Jabiru 3300) went beyond my expectations. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:07 PM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" Try again and request a read receipt. I've never had a problem, always next day service. Larry N1345L Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Butterfield" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Butterfield > > At 02:56 AM 2/3/05, Richard McLachlan wrote: > > >On two occasions I have e mailed questions to them about our 601HDS, one > >about a serious problem, and I have never even had the courtesy of a reply. > > When you send an email, to anyone, do not automatically assume that they > received it. With the proliferation of spam, and ISP's percieved need to > attempt to control it, internet services & mail services are using many and > varied methods to control it. Sometimes they work, and sometimes they throw > the baby out with the bathwater. There was just a lawsuit filed where a > large-ish service provider automatically blocked ALL mail originating from > Europe and Asia. This was done without the knowledge or consent of their > customers. > > So, if you send anyone an email, and do not get a response in a reasonable > time, spring for a telephone call before getting all upset. > > > Regards, > RonB > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:00 PM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N114AR First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Hearty congratulations Alex. You should be a writer. Had me hanging on every word and recounting my first flight last month. It's amazing how different the flight looks from the ground or in the air isn't it? Send us some pix to 601.org. We would all like to see your pride and joy leaping into the air. Now you can calm down and start the fun and flight testing. I'm sure you will work out the high temps. It's all part of the fun. I'll give you about 3 days and you will start into builders withdrawal. I've even started on the long list of things my wife has waited for 5 years for me to do. Thanks for posting this great event. Ron N601TD Alejandro Roca wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Alejandro Roca > >To ALL > > I am Happy to report that the first flight of N114AR (Zociac XL - Jabiru 3300) went beyond my expectations. I received my airworthiness certificate on 1/15 but had to wait until today due to bad weather. Finally today here in South Texas (San Antonio) winds were calm, ceilings at 25000 ft and OAT at around 45F. I Went to work this morning and looked at this weekends forecast which called for more rain and decided it was now or never.-snip_ > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:16 PM PST US From: Rmtnview@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Joke --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com Group, it has been brought to my attention that I posted a joke here earlier today. (SMART MAN). That was a mistake on my part. It was meant for another group. When I went to my address book I obviously hit the wrong address and because I'm so used to seeing the zenith name, I didn't realize what I had done until I came back to the computer tonight. I know that's not what the list is for and you all have my apology. I'll try to not let that happen again. Thank you. rog ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:51 PM PST US From: "Bill Howerton" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Joke --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" It's ok -- the joke was funny! Bill ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:05 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Joke --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Rog, Apologies accepted. Never the less, a GREAT joke. Good for our saturday Hangar meeting! Like real life :-) :-) Saludos Gary Gower Do not archive. Rmtnview@aol.com wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com Group, it has been brought to my attention that I posted a joke here earlier today. (SMART MAN). That was a mistake on my part. It was meant for another group. When I went to my address book I obviously hit the wrong address and because I'm so used to seeing the zenith name, I didn't realize what I had done until I came back to the computer tonight. I know that's not what the list is for and you all have my apology. I'll try to not let that happen again. Thank you. rog ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:19 PM PST US From: "Gary Miller" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Miller" Hello I was confused about from where to order an 801 kit since I work in UK and live in France. Although the CZ factory was perfectly willing to supply an 801; I was told by a family member that the CZ factory did not support the 801 and that if I ordered it from them I would get no support from Mexico Missouri. So lets get it straight - is CZ operating with the full approval of the US and Canadian companies or not? Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Gower" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > Hello Richard, > > I have talked and emailed with ZAC and with CHEZ several times, always > had an answer from them (a good one). > What I think happend in your case is what we call here in Mexico "a > little stone in a rice soup" with all the care we do in our work, > sometimes someone will not end happy... > > We all try in our bussiness to bring this as minimal as cero events as > possible, but with all our care, I dont know why, has to happen... we > have a fast food carts factory and we make some of them to "client > design" so imagine sometimes the effort to have every client happy... > > I have only good experience in 4 years and 2 airplanes (one from ZAC and > one from CHEZ), just imagine the amount of emails and phone calls we have > with them... > > I sincerely hope you have better luck and most important we should always > have good predisposition with everything we do and with all the people we > deal... > (Mother in Law included :-). > > Just my point of view. > > Saludos > Gary Gower > Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico. > In this side of the Atlantic :-) > > Richard McLachlan wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" > > That may be so if you are on your side of the Atlantic. Seen from here in > the UK, they are awful. On two occasions I have e mailed questions to them > about our 601HDS, one about a serious problem, and I have never even had > the > courtesy of a reply. True, our kit came from the Czech factory but I would > have expected a response of some sort even if it was referring me > somewhere > else. That coupled with the fact that the support from the UK importer is > also dreadful means that Zenair buyers in the UK are totally on their own. > > Nice product, but if I was starting again I would not buy a Zenair for > that > reason alone. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carlos Sa" > To: "Z list" > Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa >> >> As traffic is light, and I'm "unbusy", here is some feedback that new > subscribers - specialy those >> still undecided about which project to take. >> >> I'm building a CH601 from scratch, and will probably install the dual > sticks option provided by >> ZAC - I already acquired the plans. >> While studying the drawings, I noticed that the XL front bearing plate > (6B17-1) is different from >> the HD's. >> I then wrote to ZAC, explained the situation and asked for the dimentions > on that part. >> >> Twenty-four hours later I received an email from ZAC with a scanned > picture of the part and a link >> to the XL building manual. >> (I also posted the question on this list, and Neil Hulin beat ZAC by 12 > h - thanks once again, >> Neil). >> >> As you see, ZAC is pretty darn good. Not perfect, but pretty darn good. >> >> >> Happy building >> >> Carlos >> >> > > > --------------------------------- > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:56 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower I always like to talk facts and known statements, This question was never in my mind so I have no idea at all, I dont like to supose anything, correct or not, So I personally think your post need to be asked and answered directly by Zenith Aircraft personel, and Chez, also Chip from Chez monitors and post in this list, so what I thing is best to do is to send a copy of this mail to Zenith Aircraft directly, they will decide, if, what and how to answer, you or the complete list. I just know that they gave us, and are giving us a better service and support that we ever spected, from BOTH companies, we trust them completly and we are very happy with the results of the planes (they fly great) , the kits (not even a little bolt missing in 5 kits we are aware off, delivered in our Country) and their bussiness (honest and highly professional that can be trusted eyes closed). No more said, no more facts here. Saludos Gary Gower. Gary Miller wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Miller" Hello I was confused about from where to order an 801 kit since I work in UK and live in France. Although the CZ factory was perfectly willing to supply an 801; I was told by a family member that the CZ factory did not support the 801 and that if I ordered it from them I would get no support from Mexico Missouri. So lets get it straight - is CZ operating with the full approval of the US and Canadian companies or not? Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Gower" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > Hello Richard, > > I have talked and emailed with ZAC and with CHEZ several times, always > had an answer from them (a good one). > What I think happend in your case is what we call here in Mexico "a > little stone in a rice soup" with all the care we do in our work, > sometimes someone will not end happy... > > We all try in our bussiness to bring this as minimal as cero events as > possible, but with all our care, I dont know why, has to happen... we > have a fast food carts factory and we make some of them to "client > design" so imagine sometimes the effort to have every client happy... > > I have only good experience in 4 years and 2 airplanes (one from ZAC and > one from CHEZ), just imagine the amount of emails and phone calls we have > with them... > > I sincerely hope you have better luck and most important we should always > have good predisposition with everything we do and with all the people we > deal... > (Mother in Law included :-). > > Just my point of view. > > Saludos > Gary Gower > Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico. > In this side of the Atlantic :-) > > Richard McLachlan wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" > > That may be so if you are on your side of the Atlantic. Seen from here in > the UK, they are awful. On two occasions I have e mailed questions to them > about our 601HDS, one about a serious problem, and I have never even had > the > courtesy of a reply. True, our kit came from the Czech factory but I would > have expected a response of some sort even if it was referring me > somewhere > else. That coupled with the fact that the support from the UK importer is > also dreadful means that Zenair buyers in the UK are totally on their own. > > Nice product, but if I was starting again I would not buy a Zenair for > that > reason alone. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carlos Sa" > To: "Z list" > Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa >> >> As traffic is light, and I'm "unbusy", here is some feedback that new > subscribers - specialy those >> still undecided about which project to take. >> >> I'm building a CH601 from scratch, and will probably install the dual > sticks option provided by >> ZAC - I already acquired the plans. >> While studying the drawings, I noticed that the XL front bearing plate > (6B17-1) is different from >> the HD's. >> I then wrote to ZAC, explained the situation and asked for the dimentions > on that part. >> >> Twenty-four hours later I received an email from ZAC with a scanned > picture of the part and a link >> to the XL building manual. >> (I also posted the question on this list, and Neil Hulin beat ZAC by 12 > h - thanks once again, >> Neil). >> >> As you see, ZAC is pretty darn good. Not perfect, but pretty darn good. >> >> >> Happy building >> >> Carlos >> >> > > > --------------------------------- > > > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:44 PM PST US From: "Richard McLachlan" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" I forgot to say that the CZ factory are the complete opposite. I have bought parts from them on two occasions and found them responsive and helpful. One problem I had was to do with getting brake parts but the other was when we had all the engine mounts fracture. I was under the impression that the US factory were the design authority so I attempted to communicate with them about the problem. When I was unable to get any response, I went to the CZ factory who did reply. I then obtained the parts we needed from them. They also communicated with the PFA in the UK on the problem. As I said, the product is great but the backup here in the UK is non existent. We debated between buying a Zenair or an EV97 Eurostar. I have friends who have bought the EV97 and the support on that is superb. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Gower" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > I always like to talk facts and known statements, > This question was never in my mind so I have no idea at all, I dont like to supose anything, correct or not, > So I personally think your post need to be asked and answered directly by Zenith Aircraft personel, and Chez, also Chip from Chez monitors and post in this list, so what I thing is best to do is to send a copy of this mail to Zenith Aircraft directly, they will decide, if, what and how to answer, you or the complete list. > > I just know that they gave us, and are giving us a better service and support that we ever spected, from BOTH companies, we trust them completly and we are very happy with the results of the planes (they fly great) , the kits (not even a little bolt missing in 5 kits we are aware off, delivered in our Country) and their bussiness (honest and highly professional that can be trusted eyes closed). > > No more said, no more facts here. > > Saludos > Gary Gower. > > Gary Miller wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Miller" > > Hello > I was confused about from where to order an 801 kit since I work in UK and > live in France. Although the CZ factory was perfectly willing to supply an > 801; I was told by a family member that the CZ factory did not support the > 801 and that if I ordered it from them I would get no support from Mexico > Missouri. So lets get it straight - is CZ operating with the full approval > of the US and Canadian companies or not? > > Gary > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Gower" > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > > > Hello Richard, > > > > I have talked and emailed with ZAC and with CHEZ several times, always > > had an answer from them (a good one). > > What I think happend in your case is what we call here in Mexico "a > > little stone in a rice soup" with all the care we do in our work, > > sometimes someone will not end happy... > > > > We all try in our bussiness to bring this as minimal as cero events as > > possible, but with all our care, I dont know why, has to happen... we > > have a fast food carts factory and we make some of them to "client > > design" so imagine sometimes the effort to have every client happy... > > > > I have only good experience in 4 years and 2 airplanes (one from ZAC and > > one from CHEZ), just imagine the amount of emails and phone calls we have > > with them... > > > > I sincerely hope you have better luck and most important we should always > > have good predisposition with everything we do and with all the people we > > deal... > > (Mother in Law included :-). > > > > Just my point of view. > > > > Saludos > > Gary Gower > > Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico. > > In this side of the Atlantic :-) > > > > Richard McLachlan wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" > > > > That may be so if you are on your side of the Atlantic. Seen from here in > > the UK, they are awful. On two occasions I have e mailed questions to them > > about our 601HDS, one about a serious problem, and I have never even had > > the > > courtesy of a reply. True, our kit came from the Czech factory but I would > > have expected a response of some sort even if it was referring me > > somewhere > > else. That coupled with the fact that the support from the UK importer is > > also dreadful means that Zenair buyers in the UK are totally on their own. > > > > Nice product, but if I was starting again I would not buy a Zenair for > > that > > reason alone. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Carlos Sa" > > To: "Z list" > > Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC > > > > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > >> > >> As traffic is light, and I'm "unbusy", here is some feedback that new > > subscribers - specialy those > >> still undecided about which project to take. > >> > >> I'm building a CH601 from scratch, and will probably install the dual > > sticks option provided by > >> ZAC - I already acquired the plans. > >> While studying the drawings, I noticed that the XL front bearing plate > > (6B17-1) is different from > >> the HD's. > >> I then wrote to ZAC, explained the situation and asked for the dimentions > > on that part. > >> > >> Twenty-four hours later I received an email from ZAC with a scanned > > picture of the part and a link > >> to the XL building manual. > >> (I also posted the question on this list, and Neil Hulin beat ZAC by 12 > > h - thanks once again, > >> Neil). > >> > >> As you see, ZAC is pretty darn good. Not perfect, but pretty darn good. > >> > >> > >> Happy building > >> > >> Carlos > >> > >> > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > >