---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/05/05: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:17 AM - Re: 701 Outboard Hinge Plate questions (Tommy Walker) 2. 08:26 AM - Private Pilot Flying as a Sport Pilot (Chuck Deiterich) 3. 09:24 AM - New Builders Warning (Cdngoose) 4. 10:13 AM - Variable Pitch Props (Michael & Donna Heit) 5. 10:24 AM - Re: New Builders Warning and Work table (Rmtnview@aol.com) 6. 10:35 AM - Re: New Builders Warning and Work table (Cdngoose) 7. 11:13 AM - Re: New Builders Warning and Work table (Rmtnview@aol.com) 8. 12:07 PM - Work Table (Clyde Barcus) 9. 01:06 PM - Re: New Builders Warning and Work table (David Barth) 10. 02:13 PM - Re: New Builders Warning (Carlos Sa) 11. 02:57 PM - Snips (Matt & Jo) 12. 04:46 PM - Re: Snips (Todd Osborne) 13. 06:35 PM - Re: New Builders Warning and Work table (Larry Martin) 14. 07:49 PM - Re: Snips (Ihab Awad) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:25 AM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Outboard Hinge Plate questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com Tommy, If you would like to see a good pic of this installation, go to CH701.com. Under builder links go to Larry Martins site.... Brian, Thanks a lot. That's exactly what I was looking for. I can finish up my work on the tail and start on the right wing this weekend. Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive.... ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:53 AM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Zenith-List: Private Pilot Flying as a Sport Pilot --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Below are questions I asked the EAA and their answers, sounds good! Chuck D. N701TX Can a private pilot flying as a sport pilot: 1. Get a BFR in a four place (C172) airplane with a regular CFI? 2. Fly into Class B airspace without a log book endorsement? 3. Fly different airplanes (that meet the sport plane requirements) without a log book endorsement? Here are the answers to your questions: 1) Yes, you can take your flight review in any aircraft for which you are rated. However, if the aircraft does not fit the definition of a light-sport aircraft, the CFI who is administering the flight review would have to act as PIC for the flight. 2) Yes, as a private pilot you already have the necessary training for operating in Class B, C, and D airspace, so you do not need further training or endorsement. 3) Yes, a private pilot operating at the sport pilot level is not required to have further endorsements in order to fly aircraft for which you are rated. Hope this helps! EAA Aviation Services EAA Aviation Center, Oshkosh, WI ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:45 AM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: Zenith-List: New Builders Warning --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Too all you new builders that have just started or are thinking of starting let me tell you about a couple of safety issues that few other builders are willing to share. Make sure bandages are well stocked in your shop area! You will at some time drill through aluminum and into the flesh of your finger. Though most may not be noticeable and can arrange from surface abrasion to an all out gusher all abrasions are patently obvious as soon as the acetone is used to clean said aluminum!! Secondly, When it is time to chromate the aforementioned aluminum always use a respirator! But even after a thorough inspection before donning in late summer it may still be possible to have a spider crawl over a moustache UN-noticed until it locates the nasal cavity! Typically this happens while holding an important part in one hand and brush in other. Try not to put the brush back into chromate jar for in your haste it will spill all over your clean worktable, also by this time the spider will have worked it's way to far up your cavity to safely remove and you will need to wait for nature to remove the tickling in your head. In addendum to this even with closer scrutiny of the now wary respirator, during winter months FLYs hibernate!!! Warming up the shop long before chromating and with prolonged use of respirator the FLY can and most certainly WILL wake up! Once again showing the way for another of god's tiny creatures to invade said wearers nasal cavity. If your lucky, said Fly will in fact try a southern approach after nasal passage and will get lodged into windpipe at which time rigorous coughing will evacuate fly back into respirator which you still haven't removed due to that fact that you are still standing with a dumb look on your face due to the fact that in under less then 6mos you have spilled Zinc Chromate all over your clean table twice and with a sore ,drilled finger you dread cleaning it up. As of TODAY my respirator now resides in the wife's kitchen sealed in a large Ziplocs bag. At first she complained loudly but after reading this letter she has agreed to it's new home. Do not archive Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L Osprey 2 serial # 751 www.ch601.org www.Osprey2.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:13:27 AM PST US From: "Michael & Donna Heit" Subject: Zenith-List: Variable Pitch Props --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael & Donna Heit" "Mornin 'list, for a while now I am thinking of a variable pitch prop on the 701, does anyone have advise on this? Thanks, Dirk." Dirk, I once installed a variable pitch prop on a Kitfox Model IV. It was made by a company called NSI and was attached to their EA-81 Subaru conversion. Both the engine and the prop were way too heavy for the airframe. Both were a superb conversion, very nice looking, and quite powerful. The prop itself weighed 30#, though I think it was later on lightened up a bit. Any type of prop that can be changed either in the air, like the NSI version, or the ground adjustable is going to add weight. It seems to me the real question is this: is it worth the weight and the potential of problems due to added mechanical complexity on this bird? Neither of the Zenith STOL aircraft are speed daemons; they were designed for maximum short field performance, not cruise. I should think about keeping the weight down and relying on a climb prop, or a cruise prop if you think your airfields most often used were not in need of added climb performance with the prop selection. As for the Subaru conversion, it was way too heavy for the Kitfox; I had to add 22# of lead in the tail to keep the W&B in side the envelope. It was very powerful, flew like a dream but forget the extra passenger if you had full fuel. It had a failure at 15 hours of the prop gear reduction unit [twice] and the Ellison throttle body was way too sensitive for the average pilot who didn't want to keep fiddling with it. I think it was the design of the intake manifold that made it so touchy, not certain. If I were building a 701, I would by experience in past aircraft building and flight testing, stick to the Rotax 912S [80 HP] with a fixed pitch climb prop. I live and fly in the mountains of eastern Washington, Idaho and Montana. So climb is of vital importance here not cruise. I ma taking possession of a CH-801 [hopefully soon] and will be playing around with it in the mountains this spring and summer to see what difference there may be between it and a Cessna 180 I am used to. I am not certain if NSI is still around, and I haven't heard from my friend Reiner Hoffman at Stratus for a long time so I don't know if he is still around. I think the EA-81 would be a great engine in the 801, but maybe a bit heavy for the 701? Other lest members here will have a far greater experience with the combination than I have; hopefully they will also reply. I hope this has helped. DO NOT ARCHIVE Michael Heit http://www.rockymountainreliable.us Efax number: 1- 302- 341- 1207 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:40 AM PST US From: Rmtnview@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Builders Warning and Work table --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com Mark, how do you know these things? And to everyone else: I'm about to build the table that I'll be building the 801 on and had a question. I have two 49" X 8' pieces of some hard plywood type stuff I got from Lowes that I'm going to use. I know the importance of it being level so I'll take my time and do that part right. But someone had said they cut some grooves in the table to facilitate getting to the bottom of assemblies as you work so as not to have to turn the assembly over at this crucial time. Has anyone else done this and how or what did you do? Any other suggestions for the table construction before I get too far into it? It will be 49" wide X 16' long. Thanks in advance. rog Roger Osborne 1056 Old Glade Rd. Deep Gap, NC 28618 _rmtnview@aol.com_ (mailto:rmtnview@aol.com) _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DowninFlames_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DowninFlames) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:48 AM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: New Builders Warning and Work table --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Roger in the Homemade tools section of www.ch601.org there is a set of plans for building a worktable to construct your Zenith plane on. I have used this table and can attest to the strength and rigidity of it. The plans were drawn up by David Barth. It won't answer all your questions but it is a good basis to start with. As for the initial question, First hand knowledge is not always the best. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L Osprey 2 serial # 751 www.ch601.org www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rmtnview@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Builders Warning and Work table --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com Mark, how do you know these things? And to everyone else: I'm about to build the table that I'll be building the 801 on and had a question. I have two 49" X 8' pieces of some hard plywood type stuff I got from Lowes that I'm going to use. I know the importance of it being level so I'll take my time and do that part right. But someone had said they cut some grooves in the table to facilitate getting to the bottom of assemblies as you work so as not to have to turn the assembly over at this crucial time. Has anyone else done this and how or what did you do? Any other suggestions for the table construction before I get too far into it? It will be 49" wide X 16' long. Thanks in advance. rog Roger Osborne 1056 Old Glade Rd. Deep Gap, NC 28618 _rmtnview@aol.com_ (mailto:rmtnview@aol.com) _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DowninFlames_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DowninFlames) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:37 AM PST US From: Rmtnview@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Builders Warning and Work table --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com VERY good idea of making the box beams. That would help make it truly level and keep it that way and it is easily adaptable to 12' dimensions. But how about the grooves cut in the table top to get to the bottom of things. Has anyone done that or seen where it would have been a good idea? And Mark, my nose is still itching, I'll never look at a respirator the same way again. rog Roger Osborne 1056 Old Glade Rd. Deep Gap, NC 28618 _rmtnview@aol.com_ (mailto:rmtnview@aol.com) _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DowninFlames_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DowninFlames) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:04 PM PST US From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Zenith-List: Work Table --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" I wasn't satisfied with my work table even though it was pretty level, the plywood had a few small dips in it. I bought two, 2" x 2" x 10' heavy wall tube, attached 1/2" all thread to the sides and used threaded couplings as adjusters. Then I used 4' "C" channel (4 pieces) that ran across the beams. Leveled lengthwise and across in just a few minutes. I am working on my second wing today and I am able to reach under OK. Regards: Clyde Barcus CH 601 XL Builder ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:56 PM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Builders Warning and Work table --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth I think I can answer that groove question. I used tongue and groove plywood since I had to transport the table parts home from the Home depot in a small hatchback. With two foot wide sections, I would require another set of stringers under the joint in the table top unless I could fix the two pieces together. That's the only reason I used the tongue and groove. If you've got a truck and can handle large sheets of plywood - go for it. Happy building. David --- Rmtnview@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com > > VERY good idea of making the box beams. That would > help make it truly level > and keep it that way and it is easily adaptable to > 12' dimensions. But how > about the grooves cut in the table top to get to > the bottom of things. Has > anyone done that or seen where it would have been a > good idea? > And Mark, my nose is still itching, I'll never look > at a respirator the same > way again. rog > > > Roger Osborne > 1056 Old Glade Rd. > Deep Gap, NC 28618 > _rmtnview@aol.com_ (mailto:rmtnview@aol.com) > _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DowninFlames_ > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DowninFlames) > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ===== David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? Working on Wings www.ch601.org __________________________________ http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:18 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Builders Warning --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa I got used to wearing lather gardening gloves while working. Comfortable and real cheap, from the hardware store. Avoids "hull breaches" when handling sharp stuff without due care. And, side benefit, no greasy fingerprints on parts, thus reducing need for cleanup before priming. I'm so used to it that now I hardly ever touch any aluminum with bare hands. Happy building, and beware of those intruder insects... Carlos --- Cdngoose <601xl@sympatico.ca> wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> > > Make sure bandages are well stocked in > your shop area! You will at some time drill through aluminum and into > the flesh of your finger. Though most may not be noticeable and can > arrange from surface abrasion to an all out gusher all abrasions are > patently obvious as soon as the acetone is used to clean said aluminum!! ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:57:44 PM PST US From: "Matt & Jo" Subject: Zenith-List: Snips --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" Hello all. Just got done working on the elevator. When I started this project I bought a set of 3 aviation snips. They worked, but I was never was happy with the way they cut. I could never seem to get a clean cut. When making the cut-out for the rudder I was not happy with the results. I went to Lowes and got a set of offset snips. What a difference. The cuts are much better. Wish I had bought them sooner. Matt www.zodiacxl.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:40 PM PST US From: Todd Osborne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Snips --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne Another great tool is a pair of Jilson snips. I swear by these things too. Those and a Dremel cutoff and simply fantastic for cutting lightweight metals. Todd Matt & Jo wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" > > Hello all. Just got done working on the elevator. When I started this project I bought a set of 3 aviation snips. They worked, but I was never was happy with the way they cut. I could never seem to get a clean cut. When making the cut-out for the rudder I was not happy with the results. I went to Lowes and got a set of offset snips. What a difference. The cuts are much better. Wish I had bought them sooner. > > Matt > www.zodiacxl.com > > > > > > -- Todd Osborne Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com Web Site: www.toddtown.com MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd@toddtown.com AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn@aol.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:26 PM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Builders Warning and Work table --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" I think there is a misunderstanding about tables being perfectly level. They do not have to be level, they do have to be totally flat, it can have a 5/10 degrees lower or higher on one end or the other as long as it is flat, corners to corners. No big deal.I just keep guys worrying about being level and it's not necessary, but flat is and they are not the same thing. Got my wings installed today, should have pictures on my site in a few days. Larry N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Builders Warning and Work table > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com > > Mark, how do you know these things? > And to everyone else: I'm about to build the table that I'll be building the > 801 on and had a question. I have two 49" X 8' pieces of some hard plywood > type stuff I got from Lowes that I'm going to use. I know the importance of it > being level so I'll take my time and do that part right. But someone had said > they cut some grooves in the table to facilitate getting to the bottom of > assemblies as you work so as not to have to turn the assembly over at this > crucial time. Has anyone else done this and how or what did you do? Any other > suggestions for the table construction before I get too far into it? It will be > 49" wide X 16' long. Thanks in advance. rog > > > Roger Osborne > 1056 Old Glade Rd. > Deep Gap, NC 28618 > _rmtnview@aol.com_ (mailto:rmtnview@aol.com) > _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DowninFlames_ > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DowninFlames) > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release Date: 2/3/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:18 PM PST US From: Ihab Awad Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Snips --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 16:54:47 -0600, Matt & Jo wrote: > I went to Lowes and got a set of offset snips. What a difference. One more thing to add to this: The ProSnip offset snips have worked for me much better than the Wiss ones. The "lower" jaw -- the offset one that is supposed to get out of the way -- seems more out of the way on the ProSnips than the Wiss. Another thing about the ProSnips (I don't remember any more if the Wiss are the same): only *one* jaw has the serrations on it that keep the work from slipping. As a result, I can keep the serrations on the waste side, cut right up to the line and get a clean edge that requires just a few quick file strokes and a deburring pass. Hope this helps. Peace, Ihab