Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:28 AM - Re: Transponder install (Bryan Martin)
2. 06:15 AM - Re: Weight & Balance (Dan Knezacek)
3. 07:32 AM - Re: Weight & Balance (Larry McFarland)
4. 07:34 AM - Re: Transponder install (Craig Payne)
5. 10:44 AM - Scotchbrite now? (Tony Bonsell)
6. 10:46 AM - Transtar primer (Mike H)
7. 11:07 AM - Re: Scotchbrite now? (N5SL)
8. 12:12 PM - Re: Scotchbrite now? (RURUNY@aol.com)
9. 01:14 PM - Re: Scotchbrite now? (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
10. 02:00 PM - Re: Scotchbrite now? (N5SL)
11. 04:15 PM - Re: Rivets (DICK WILBERS)
12. 04:19 PM - XL: Hatch lock and aileron trip (Craig Payne)
13. 05:28 PM - Re: Scotchbrite now? (Brandon Tucker)
14. 06:35 PM - Re: XL: Hatch lock and aileron trip (Tim & Diane Shankland)
15. 07:51 PM - Re: Scotchbrite now? (Larry Martin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder install |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
On a homebuilt, you can install anything yourself and, according to the
FARs, the manufacturer (that's you) can do the static system and transponder
checks (if you have the equipment and know how). The trick is finding
someone who will sell you one. Most Garmin dealers won't sell to
homebuilders, Garmin won't let them. You will probably have to find a used
one that was removed for upgrade. Try E-Bay, they come up for auction
occasionally. There's one listed right now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=90980&item
=4527354878&rd=1
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> So I'm gathering the pieces for my XL's control panel. I went looking for a
> Garmin GTX 327 transponder and noticed that a number of sites wouldn't sell
> the unit direct. Some want to install it, others say "Dealer Install ONLY
> for Certified Aircraft". Can I install my own transponder? Must I use a
> certified tech? Or do I simply need to have the FAR 91.413 (transponder) and
> 91.411 (static system) certifications done every two years?
>
> -- Craig
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In Phase I testing.
do not archive.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Weight & Balance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Knezacek" <dan@knezacek.ca>
I am installing an EA81 on my 601 HD. It flew 24 hrs with the VW.
I have mounted my rad behind the spar P51 style. So this will bring my CofG
back a bit.
I suppose that I will have to weigh my plane to determine where the battery
will go?
Assuming it will have to go behind the seats, where should the battery wires
be routed?
Dan Knezacek
CH601 HD, EA81 power
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Weight & Balance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Dan,
I mounted two batteries, 18 amp hr SLA types behind the passenger
side seat between the spar and the J-member. I routed the cable over the
spar,
out the right first rib forward to the rib hole that aligns with just behind
the
main spar, inboard from there to the spar center and thru a console center
to the firewall.
My radiator is set 38" rear of the firewall and it's difficult to get the CG
outside the
envelope at any condition within the 730 to 1300 lbs.
Pictures are on my engine page, the electrical page and the controls page if
you need
perspective. 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Larry McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Weight & Balance
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Knezacek" <dan@knezacek.ca>
> I am installing an EA81 on my 601 HD. It flew 24 hrs with the VW.
> I have mounted my rad behind the spar P51 style. So this will bring my
> CofG
> back a bit.
> I suppose that I will have to weigh my plane to determine where the
> battery
> will go?
> Assuming it will have to go behind the seats, where should the battery
> wires
> be routed?
>
> Dan Knezacek
> CH601 HD, EA81 power
Message 4
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| Subject: | Transponder install |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I did find a vendor that would sell me the Garmin transponder. Tropic Aero
shipped me one, no questions asked.
I found the below on the EAA site. Seems that in this case the definition of
"manufacturer" is tighter:
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/faq/Transponder%20and%20Pitot%20Sta
tic%20Tests.html
Transponder and Pitot Static Tests
Is the 24 month transponder test (per FAR 91.217 & 91.413) required for a
homebuilt aircraft? How about the pitot static test (FAR 91.411)? If so, can
this be done by the builder of the aircraft?
If you have a transponder installed in your aircraft, you must comply with
the testing requirements. The requirements of 14 CFR 91.215, 91.217, and
91.411 apply to all aircraft with such equipment installed, regardless of
certification category.
If you fly your aircraft under IFR, you must comply with the pitot/static
test requirements called out in 14 CFR 91.411. As with transponders, this
regulation applies to all aircraft, regardless of certification category.
The FAR's authorize the "manufacturer" of the aircraft to conduct the tests
However, the builder of an amateur-built aircraft does not meet the FAA's
definition of a manufacturer. The FAA, in Order 8130.2, defines a
manufacturer as a Production Approval Holder (PAH). Some examples of a PAH
would be the holder of a Production Certificate (PC), a Parts Manufacturing
Authority (PMA), and Technical Standards Order Authorization (TSOA). An
amateur builder does not fit this definition. Thus, the amateur-builder
cannot perform the transponder and pitot/static tests on his/her homebuilt.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Martin
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Transponder install
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
On a homebuilt, you can install anything yourself and, according to the
FARs, the manufacturer (that's you) can do the static system and transponder
checks (if you have the equipment and know how). The trick is finding
someone who will sell you one. Most Garmin dealers won't sell to
homebuilders, Garmin won't let them. You will probably have to find a used
one that was removed for upgrade. Try E-Bay, they come up for auction
occasionally. There's one listed right now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=90980&item
=4527354878&rd=1
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> So I'm gathering the pieces for my XL's control panel. I went looking for
a
> Garmin GTX 327 transponder and noticed that a number of sites wouldn't
sell
> the unit direct. Some want to install it, others say "Dealer Install ONLY
> for Certified Aircraft". Can I install my own transponder? Must I use a
> certified tech? Or do I simply need to have the FAR 91.413 (transponder)
and
> 91.411 (static system) certifications done every two years?
>
> -- Craig
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In Phase I testing.
do not archive.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Scotchbrite now? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tony Bonsell <tbonsell@luxuria.com>
Hi Guys
So I'm taking apart the rear fuse to debur and prep for riveting. Seems like
a good time to scrub up the outer panels with scotchbrite, while they're
flat on the table. Make sense?
Any other prep I should get into while I'm here?
******************************************************
Tony Bonsell (tbonsell@luxuria.com) CI-FKF
******************************************************
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H" <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
Does anyone have exp. with this primer?
Thanks
Mike H
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite now? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Tony:
I've been hit and miss on this issue - some parts I've cleaned up nice on the outside
and others I've left the ink showing. I always protect the inside. I
think it would depend on where you live. I have had zero problems with corrosion
in two years with material stored in my garage. I've heard some folks say
their material gets corroded while stored, so if you live in one of those areas,
wait. I'm in Nebraska where it's pretty dry with low humidity.
Even if you Scotchbrite it, keep a close eye on the parts and prime if you see
corrosion.
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
601XL/Corvair N5SL
Working on Engine Mount
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Tony Bonsell <tbonsell@luxuria.com> wrote:
So I'm taking apart the rear fuse to debur and prep for riveting. Seems like
a good time to scrub up the outer panels with scotchbrite, while they're
flat on the table.
---------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite now? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com
Tony,
When I was ready to rivet the fuse skins together I scotchbrited both sides
and coated the inside with very thinned out brush-on zinc chromate primer
from petit. On outside portion I sprayed anywhere metal overlapped and a quick
spray over rivet lines.
All small pieces, L angle pieces and longerons I scotchebrited, alodined and
sprayed tempo zinc chromate on them.
I used these products because I have a West Marine store down the road from
me.
Go to the link below and type zinc chromate under their search area.
_http://www.westmarine.com_ (http://www.westmarine.com)
Brian
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite now? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Gentlemen:
Now I'm beginning to get concerned. I am almost done with the horizontal
stabilizer (I completed the rudder at the factory workshop) and I haven't
Scotchbrighted anything !!
The parts were pre-treated at the factory workshop, so that (for better or
worse) is what it is. Corrosion protection for the horizontal
stabilizer/elevator has been to clean everything in the interior with lacquer
thinner and do
the rattle-can thing on ALL intrerior surfaces - minimum 2 thin coats.
The exterior is virgin. I have NOT been spraying where exterior skins
overlap - is this a potential problem?
I thought the zinc chromate was self-etching...am I mistaken? It says
advesion is 'excellent', while abrasion resistance is 'good'. Does this suggest
the zinc chromate will abrade off where, let's say, the rib is riveted to the
skin?
I also have a 5 gallon pail of a wash primer simiar to the Cortex product
recommended by ZAC that I was going to use - but I hear this is NOT a good
product for corrosion protection So now I'm concerned about the rudder I built.
Any expert opinions out there?
Thank you
Regards,
Tracy
Naugatuck, CT
601XL
tail 86%
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 2/14/2005 2:07:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
nfivesl@yahoo.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Tony:
I've been hit and miss on this issue - some parts I've cleaned up nice on
the outside and others I've left the ink showing. I always protect the inside.
I think it would depend on where you live. I have had zero problems with
corrosion in two years with material stored in my garage. I've heard some
folks say their material gets corroded while stored, so if you live in one of
those areas, wait. I'm in Nebraska where it's pretty dry with low humidity.
Even if you Scotchbrite it, keep a close eye on the parts and prime if you
see corrosion.
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
601XL/Corvair N5SL
Working on Engine Mount
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Tony Bonsell <tbonsell@luxuria.com> wrote:
So I'm taking apart the rear fuse to debur and prep for riveting. Seems like
a good time to scrub up the outer panels with scotchbrite, while they're
flat on the table.
---------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite now? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Tracy:
You should be fine with what you have done so far. As with painting anything,
the cleaner the better and using scotchbright can give paint/primer something
to stick to. I have recently started using an acid/soap wash called "ProPar"
from a truck supply company. They use it on aluminum truck beds and I think
there is another product called Aluma-brite that is the same thing. I use scotchbright,
then wash with this acid/soap, then rinse and dry. It's amazing how
well the primer sticks to the clean surface and after it's dry it doesn't want
to scratch off. I used zinc chromate on some of the first parts I made without
this process (I just cleaned with lacquer thinner, then sprayed) and you
can scratch it off with your fingernail. I like the lacquer thinner, but this
Propar really gives a good surface for paint to stick. I will prabably use this
when I paint the exteror also.
One last note - I also plan to put a Scotchbright pad on my DA sander (orbital
sander) and go all over the outside before cleaning for final paint. I've heard
this gives great results.
Scott Laughlin
601XL/Corvair, N5SL
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
Since all of the above is just MY opinion and is not flying yet:
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote:
Now I'm beginning to get concerned.
---------------------------------
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "DICK WILBERS" <RWILBERS@TAMPABAY.RR.COM>
ZAC rivets may be manufactured by Avdel (Aviation Development Corp) rather
than Avex. I am not certain at this time, but I think it is a possibility.
Dick Wilbers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce"
> <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
>
> I don't know the actual force values. We riveted three strips together in
> a
> line, using a ZAC rivet to connect strips A and B, and an AS rivet to
> connect strips B and C. Using a car screw-jack, we pulled on the ends of
> strips A and C. In two separate tests, the AS rivet failed with no
> perceptible deformity in the ZAC rivet. Hopefully, the test jig that is
> supposed to be described in the upcoming issue of ZAC newsletter will show
> us how to do more accurate testing.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Ozarkseller2@aol.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ozarkseller2@aol.com
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 2/12/2005 4:56:00 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>> piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com writes:
>>
>> We bought some Avex rivets from Aircraft Spruce with the same part
>> number
>> (1604-0412) specified in the CH701 Photo
>> Assembly Guide. However, our initial testing indicates that these don't
>> have the shear strength provided by those from ZAC. I guess that I was
>> naive in thinking that an 8-digit part number might provide some
>> specificity.
>> Tony Pierce
>> 701
>>
>>
>> How much difference in shear strength does your testing indicate?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | XL: Hatch lock and aileron trip |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Two questions:
1. Does anyone know of a good design for adding a key lock to the XL's
tilt-forward canopy?
2. Does anyone have a link to a good design for adding electric aileron
trim? I know I've seen one on the Web but can't remember where.
-- Craig
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite now? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Tony,
When I assembled the wings, I cleaned with
thinner, and primed with cortec. One wing is 373, and
one 374. (I should have the last word on which is
better in about 10 years!) -Anyway, on the fuse, I
cleaned ALL components with Alumaprep, and Alodinined
ALL components - including both sides of the skin.
The primer adhesion to Alumaprepped surfaces is better
than anything else I have tried, including scotchbrite
pads. I was one of the guys who had some corrosion
problems while storing skins, so I went ahead and
primered the outside of the aft fuselage side skins to
make sure the corrosion did not return. BTW, I also
painted the bottom aft fuse, and bottom of the center
wing section prior to joining the two together so that
I would not have to paint the bottom of the plane
after it is assembled. I think that will work in my
favor later.
The foremost experts on aircraft corrosion issues
are the carrier aviation airframe mechanics, and when
I was in a carrier based squadron, I attended the
corrosion prevention supervisors course. The
instructor had been teaching the course for 30 years,
had 50 years experience, and instructed all corrosion
control maintenece personnel in the airwing. He sang
the Alodine gosphel. His sermon: Not only does it
provide an excellent surface preparation for adhesion,
but it provides some stand alone corrosion protection
while awaiting paint. Oh, and it is cheaper than
thinner anyway!
Respectfully,
Brandon Tucker
Wings, Tail complete
Fuselage on the gear.
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: XL: Hatch lock and aileron trip |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank@megsinet.net>
Craig,
I designed and built one for my 601HD with a forward tilting canopy, but
it does take some machining to make the part.
Tim Shankland
Craig Payne wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>Two questions:
>
>1. Does anyone know of a good design for adding a key lock to the XL's
>tilt-forward canopy?
>
>2. Does anyone have a link to a good design for adding electric aileron
>trim? I know I've seen one on the Web but can't remember where.
>
>-- Craig
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Scotchbrite now? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
If you use an acid wash you do not need to scotchbrite anything. The only
time you need to scotchbrite is if you need to scuff paint. The acid wash
will remove any contaminates, dull the surface and leave it etched and you
will get an excellent adhesion with your primer. If you scotchbrite after
washing, which isn't necessary, you may add contaminates and leave little
scotchbrite pieces stuck under the edges of rivets. You will find those
very difficult to find and remove. Of course when you paint you can find
them all.
However, if you insist on scotchbriting make sure you acid wash first and
last. If you scotchbrite or sand before cleaning you will risk imbedding
the contaminates into the metal, and then you have a possible problem which
is very difficult to overcome. Contaminates come in many flavors, the most
common being oil from hands and soap not rinsed off. So, once you acid wash
tell your friends to keep their hands off.
With the risk of sounding like a know it all, I have been painting for 40
years.
Larry N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Bonsell" <tbonsell@luxuria.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Scotchbrite now?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tony Bonsell <tbonsell@luxuria.com>
>
> Hi Guys
>
> So I'm taking apart the rear fuse to debur and prep for riveting. Seems
like
> a good time to scrub up the outer panels with scotchbrite, while they're
> flat on the table. Make sense?
>
> Any other prep I should get into while I'm here?
>
> ******************************************************
> Tony Bonsell (tbonsell@luxuria.com) CI-FKF
>
> ******************************************************
>
>
> --
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