Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:12 AM - Re: Sea Plane Airstrips (Beckman, Rick)
2. 07:07 AM - Drill bit #20 (Rmtnview@aol.com)
3. 08:03 AM - Re: Drill bit #20 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
4. 08:24 AM - Re: Drill bit #20 (Chuck Deiterich)
5. 08:40 AM - 601 rudder pedal warning. (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
6. 09:02 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (N5SL)
7. 09:02 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Chuck Deiterich)
8. 09:21 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 09:27 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
10. 09:43 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Chuck Deiterich)
11. 09:43 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Larry McFarland)
12. 10:04 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
13. 10:47 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
14. 12:45 PM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Gary Gower)
15. 12:46 PM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Peter Dunning)
16. 12:57 PM - FAA inspection complete (charles.long@gm.com)
17. 01:54 PM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Gary Liming)
18. 02:25 PM - Re: FAA inspection complete (Larry McFarland)
19. 02:43 PM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Flydog1966@aol.com)
20. 03:00 PM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
21. 03:35 PM - Brakes that brake (or) break the pedals (Aaron)
22. 04:50 PM - Re: Brakes that brake (or) break the pedals (Larry McFarland)
23. 05:01 PM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Thilo Kind)
24. 05:59 PM - Re: FAA inspection complete (ron dewees)
25. 06:05 PM - Baggage pod (Brett Hanley)
26. 06:09 PM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Kelly Meiste)
27. 07:52 PM - Re: Baggage pod (Cdngoose)
28. 08:39 PM - Rudder pedal gussets (Brandon Tucker)
29. 10:09 PM - Re: FAA inspection complete (Rick)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Sea Plane Airstrips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
My thanks to all those who responded so quickly to my
question on seaplane landing areas. What a great list, indeed!!
Rick
-
Go to www.seaplanes.org
In the USA you are lucky to have many thousands of lakes, rivers, and places
to fly seaplanes than most of the rest of the world. Generally, unless
specifically prohibited, you can land nearly anywhere. The Seaplane
association has a directory available.
Cheers,
CHIP
Do not archive!
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com
Is there a problem in using a #21 drill bit for A5 rivets? Thanks. Rog
do not archive
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Nope as long as you don't have to hammer the rivet in and bend the
flanges underneath the hole.
FRank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rmtnview@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Drill bit #20
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com
Is there a problem in using a #21 drill bit for A5 rivets? Thanks. Rog
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Drill bit #20 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
That's what I used, as recommended by Tony Bingelis.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rmtnview@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Drill bit #20
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com
>
> Is there a problem in using a #21 drill bit for A5 rivets? Thanks. Rog
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday when my left rudder pedal
sheared off at the point where the drawings suggest adding the gusset
plate. Of course as I had no welding gear at the time and I thought I
was buying a kit with all the welded parts done for me I installed the
pedals as is.
The pedal sheared off just as I was exiting the runway and coming nose
to nose with a taxing C152. Knowing I had enough room to get my wing
under his wing I was not too woried, then the pedal sheared and I was
going about 7mph. An emergency turn to the right and ran the plane off
into the weeds.
No damage but it was a little close for comfort.
Hoping ZAC will replace my pedals but if not does anyone have any
knowledge about welding up a previosly fractured weld in 4103? Does one
use a standard rod for gas welding?
I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure.
Frank
351.3 hours.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Sorry to hear about this Frank:
I welded up my rudder pedals recently and it was not a big deal. I chose belt
and suspenders by using a heavier wall tubing and adding the gusset to the left
rudder pedal. See the finished product here:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/2_19_05_Pedals.jpg
I think there is a drawing update on the ZAC website showing the heavier wall tubing
or the added gusset. For welding 4130, a mild steel, copper coated rod
was recommended to me, so that's what I used.
If you choose to beef up your pedals, I think the recommendation was to add the
gusset to both left and right sides. I didn't do the gusset on right pedal since
I have the thicker wall pipe.
Let me know if you have trouble finding the drawing or if you need wall thicknesses,
welding rod specs, etc.
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
N5SL (Reserved)
601XL/Corvair
"Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday
Does one
use a standard rod for gas welding?
I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure.
Frank
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Frank,
Here is what ZAC's web pages say:
CH 601 and CH 701 Rudder Pedals
February 17, 1998
Although a large number of the above aircraft have many hundreds, even
thousands, of hours without any problems, it has come to our attention that
lately several rudder pedals have been broken during operation (usually on
the left pilot side pedal).
From the designer's standpoint, this can happen when:
Using the wrong material and/or technique;
Modifying the geometry of rudder and/or brake pedals;
Using the rudder pedals in a very rough manner (we have very little "feel"
in our legs and feet);
Applying the brakes by pushing excessively hard on the pedals;
A combination of the above which may cause cracks in the pedal assembly
leading to failure.
WHAT YOU NEED TO DO:
Check the bottom of the pedals near the welds to the horizontal tube. Do not
fly the aircraft if you detect cracks or deformation of the tubes and/or
welds.
Replace the existing rudder pedals with new ones made with 4130N tubing, x
0.049" or 0.058" (use welding rod AWS-A.5-2-69 (RG60), or
Another solution is to weld triangular gussets (4130N t=.032" or .040", or
steel t=.080" / gauge 14) on each side of the tubes, as shown below:
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday when my left rudder pedal
> sheared off at the point where the drawings suggest adding the gusset
> plate. Of course as I had no welding gear at the time and I thought I
> was buying a kit with all the welded parts done for me I installed the
> pedals as is.
>
> The pedal sheared off just as I was exiting the runway and coming nose
> to nose with a taxing C152. Knowing I had enough room to get my wing
> under his wing I was not too woried, then the pedal sheared and I was
> going about 7mph. An emergency turn to the right and ran the plane off
> into the weeds.
>
> No damage but it was a little close for comfort.
>
> Hoping ZAC will replace my pedals but if not does anyone have any
> knowledge about welding up a previosly fractured weld in 4103? Does one
> use a standard rod for gas welding?
>
> I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure.
>
> Frank
>
> 351.3 hours.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Ha...yeah pushing excessively hard because the brakes barely work....:)
Speaking of which, did I not see some infor about using "brake
intensivfiers"...what ever thay are?...Does this have something to do
with improving the geometry of the master cylinder attach and therefore
would be a good time to incorporate a modification?
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Deiterich
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich"
--> <cfd@thegateway.net>
Frank,
Here is what ZAC's web pages say:
CH 601 and CH 701 Rudder Pedals
February 17, 1998
Although a large number of the above aircraft have many hundreds, even
thousands, of hours without any problems, it has come to our attention
that lately several rudder pedals have been broken during operation
(usually on the left pilot side pedal).
From the designer's standpoint, this can happen when:
Using the wrong material and/or technique; Modifying the geometry of
rudder and/or brake pedals; Using the rudder pedals in a very rough
manner (we have very little "feel"
in our legs and feet);
Applying the brakes by pushing excessively hard on the pedals; A
combination of the above which may cause cracks in the pedal assembly
leading to failure.
WHAT YOU NEED TO DO:
Check the bottom of the pedals near the welds to the horizontal tube. Do
not fly the aircraft if you detect cracks or deformation of the tubes
and/or welds.
Replace the existing rudder pedals with new ones made with 4130N tubing,
x 0.049" or 0.058" (use welding rod AWS-A.5-2-69 (RG60), or Another
solution is to weld triangular gussets (4130N t=.032" or .040", or steel
t=.080" / gauge 14) on each side of the tubes, as shown below:
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday when my left rudder pedal
> sheared off at the point where the drawings suggest adding the gusset
> plate. Of course as I had no welding gear at the time and I thought I
> was buying a kit with all the welded parts done for me I installed the
> pedals as is.
>
> The pedal sheared off just as I was exiting the runway and coming nose
> to nose with a taxing C152. Knowing I had enough room to get my wing
> under his wing I was not too woried, then the pedal sheared and I was
> going about 7mph. An emergency turn to the right and ran the plane off
> into the weeds.
>
> No damage but it was a little close for comfort.
>
> Hoping ZAC will replace my pedals but if not does anyone have any
> knowledge about welding up a previosly fractured weld in 4103? Does
> one use a standard rod for gas welding?
>
> I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure.
>
> Frank
>
> 351.3 hours.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Thanks Scott...it could have been much worse!...I was having visions of
literally going nose to nose with a large expensive rotating metal meat
cleaver!
I have a number of copper coated rods so I assume thase are ok with
4130...i.e nothing special?
Would rather build the RV but hey...two hours work and I'm flying again
vs. 800 for the RV...No contest...:)
Thanks
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Sorry to hear about this Frank:
I welded up my rudder pedals recently and it was not a big deal. I
chose belt and suspenders by using a heavier wall tubing and adding the
gusset to the left rudder pedal. See the finished product here:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/2_19_05_Pedals.jpg
I think there is a drawing update on the ZAC website showing the heavier
wall tubing or the added gusset. For welding 4130, a mild steel, copper
coated rod was recommended to me, so that's what I used.
If you choose to beef up your pedals, I think the recommendation was to
add the gusset to both left and right sides. I didn't do the gusset on
right pedal since I have the thicker wall pipe.
Let me know if you have trouble finding the drawing or if you need wall
thicknesses, welding rod specs, etc.
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
N5SL (Reserved)
601XL/Corvair
"Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday
Does one
use a standard rod for gas welding?
I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure.
Frank
---------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Frank,
Brake intensifiers are kits from Matco. They are new smaller pistons and
sleeves that fit inside the original brake cylinder reducing the size of the
piston which give about 60% more hydraulic mechanical advantage. That's the
plan.
But I put some in my 701 and removed them when I got back home after the
first flight with them. Apparently the O-ring at the top outside of the
sleeve, which is supposed to seal the outside of the sleeve to the inside of
the brake cylinder, is not good enough. When I stepped on the brakes they
held a little and then just got softer. I guess the brake fluid was pushed
up between the sleeve and the cylinder wall. I installed them according to
the directions. My brakes will just hold at 1900 prop RPM again.
Chuck D.
N701TX
Jabiru 2200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Ha...yeah pushing excessively hard because the brakes barely work....:)
>
> Speaking of which, did I not see some infor about using "brake
> intensivfiers"...what ever thay are?...Does this have something to do
> with improving the geometry of the master cylinder attach and therefore
> would be a good time to incorporate a modification?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Deiterich
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich"
> --> <cfd@thegateway.net>
>
> Frank,
> Here is what ZAC's web pages say:
> CH 601 and CH 701 Rudder Pedals
>
> February 17, 1998
>
> Although a large number of the above aircraft have many hundreds, even
> thousands, of hours without any problems, it has come to our attention
> that lately several rudder pedals have been broken during operation
> (usually on the left pilot side pedal).
>
> >From the designer's standpoint, this can happen when:
>
> Using the wrong material and/or technique; Modifying the geometry of
> rudder and/or brake pedals; Using the rudder pedals in a very rough
> manner (we have very little "feel"
> in our legs and feet);
> Applying the brakes by pushing excessively hard on the pedals; A
> combination of the above which may cause cracks in the pedal assembly
> leading to failure.
>
>
> WHAT YOU NEED TO DO:
>
> Check the bottom of the pedals near the welds to the horizontal tube. Do
> not fly the aircraft if you detect cracks or deformation of the tubes
> and/or welds.
> Replace the existing rudder pedals with new ones made with 4130N tubing,
> x 0.049" or 0.058" (use welding rod AWS-A.5-2-69 (RG60), or Another
> solution is to weld triangular gussets (4130N t=.032" or .040", or steel
> t=.080" / gauge 14) on each side of the tubes, as shown below:
> Chuck D.
> N701TX
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >
> > Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday when my left rudder pedal
> > sheared off at the point where the drawings suggest adding the gusset
> > plate. Of course as I had no welding gear at the time and I thought I
> > was buying a kit with all the welded parts done for me I installed the
>
> > pedals as is.
> >
> > The pedal sheared off just as I was exiting the runway and coming nose
>
> > to nose with a taxing C152. Knowing I had enough room to get my wing
> > under his wing I was not too woried, then the pedal sheared and I was
> > going about 7mph. An emergency turn to the right and ran the plane off
>
> > into the weeds.
> >
> > No damage but it was a little close for comfort.
> >
> > Hoping ZAC will replace my pedals but if not does anyone have any
> > knowledge about welding up a previosly fractured weld in 4103? Does
> > one use a standard rod for gas welding?
> >
> > I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > 351.3 hours.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Frank,
I'm surprised you've not gone to the brake intensifiers. The brakes are a
real compromise
without them. This you should put on your "to-do" list while you've got
things apart.
They are a add-in that reduces the piston area and increases the force you
exert hydraulically.
It's a bit of fussy work getting the 0-ring in, but the modification is not
rocket science and
this is an excellent time to do it. Be sure to get the instructions correct
as there is slight ambiguity
the way I read the depth check.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Ha...yeah pushing excessively hard because the brakes barely work....:)
>
> Speaking of which, did I not see some infor about using "brake
> intensivfiers"...what ever thay are?...Does this have something to do
> with improving the geometry of the master cylinder attach and therefore
> would be a good time to incorporate a modification?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Deiterich
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich"
> --> <cfd@thegateway.net>
>
> Frank,
> Here is what ZAC's web pages say:
> CH 601 and CH 701 Rudder Pedals
>
> February 17, 1998
>
> Although a large number of the above aircraft have many hundreds, even
> thousands, of hours without any problems, it has come to our attention
> that lately several rudder pedals have been broken during operation
> (usually on the left pilot side pedal).
>
> From the designer's standpoint, this can happen when:
>
> Using the wrong material and/or technique; Modifying the geometry of
> rudder and/or brake pedals; Using the rudder pedals in a very rough
> manner (we have very little "feel"
> in our legs and feet);
> Applying the brakes by pushing excessively hard on the pedals; A
> combination of the above which may cause cracks in the pedal assembly
> leading to failure.
>
>
> WHAT YOU NEED TO DO:
>
> Check the bottom of the pedals near the welds to the horizontal tube. Do
> not fly the aircraft if you detect cracks or deformation of the tubes
> and/or welds.
> Replace the existing rudder pedals with new ones made with 4130N tubing,
> x 0.049" or 0.058" (use welding rod AWS-A.5-2-69 (RG60), or Another
> solution is to weld triangular gussets (4130N t=.032" or .040", or steel
> t=.080" / gauge 14) on each side of the tubes, as shown below:
> Chuck D.
> N701TX
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>
>> Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday when my left rudder pedal
>> sheared off at the point where the drawings suggest adding the gusset
>> plate. Of course as I had no welding gear at the time and I thought I
>> was buying a kit with all the welded parts done for me I installed the
>
>> pedals as is.
>>
>> The pedal sheared off just as I was exiting the runway and coming nose
>
>> to nose with a taxing C152. Knowing I had enough room to get my wing
>> under his wing I was not too woried, then the pedal sheared and I was
>> going about 7mph. An emergency turn to the right and ran the plane off
>
>> into the weeds.
>>
>> No damage but it was a little close for comfort.
>>
>> Hoping ZAC will replace my pedals but if not does anyone have any
>> knowledge about welding up a previosly fractured weld in 4103? Does
>> one use a standard rod for gas welding?
>>
>> I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> 351.3 hours.
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Well that is one vote for and one against on the intesifiers.
This kit was not available (as far as I know) when I built my plane in
1999.
I was also a little surprised that you welded the gusset plate on the
back side of the tube when the stress is all at the front of the
tube...Comments?
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Frank,
I'm surprised you've not gone to the brake intensifiers. The brakes are
a real compromise without them. This you should put on your "to-do"
list while you've got things apart.
They are a add-in that reduces the piston area and increases the force
you exert hydraulically.
It's a bit of fussy work getting the 0-ring in, but the modification is
not rocket science and this is an excellent time to do it. Be sure to
get the instructions correct as there is slight ambiguity the way I read
the depth check.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Ha...yeah pushing excessively hard because the brakes barely
work....:)
>
> Speaking of which, did I not see some infor about using "brake
> intensivfiers"...what ever thay are?...Does this have something to do
> with improving the geometry of the master cylinder attach and
therefore
> would be a good time to incorporate a modification?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Deiterich
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich"
> --> <cfd@thegateway.net>
>
> Frank,
> Here is what ZAC's web pages say:
> CH 601 and CH 701 Rudder Pedals
>
> February 17, 1998
>
> Although a large number of the above aircraft have many hundreds, even
> thousands, of hours without any problems, it has come to our attention
> that lately several rudder pedals have been broken during operation
> (usually on the left pilot side pedal).
>
> From the designer's standpoint, this can happen when:
>
> Using the wrong material and/or technique; Modifying the geometry of
> rudder and/or brake pedals; Using the rudder pedals in a very rough
> manner (we have very little "feel"
> in our legs and feet);
> Applying the brakes by pushing excessively hard on the pedals; A
> combination of the above which may cause cracks in the pedal assembly
> leading to failure.
>
>
> WHAT YOU NEED TO DO:
>
> Check the bottom of the pedals near the welds to the horizontal tube.
Do
> not fly the aircraft if you detect cracks or deformation of the tubes
> and/or welds.
> Replace the existing rudder pedals with new ones made with 4130N
tubing,
> x 0.049" or 0.058" (use welding rod AWS-A.5-2-69 (RG60), or Another
> solution is to weld triangular gussets (4130N t=.032" or .040", or
steel
> t=.080" / gauge 14) on each side of the tubes, as shown below:
> Chuck D.
> N701TX
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>
>> Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday when my left rudder pedal
>> sheared off at the point where the drawings suggest adding the gusset
>> plate. Of course as I had no welding gear at the time and I thought I
>> was buying a kit with all the welded parts done for me I installed
the
>
>> pedals as is.
>>
>> The pedal sheared off just as I was exiting the runway and coming
nose
>
>> to nose with a taxing C152. Knowing I had enough room to get my wing
>> under his wing I was not too woried, then the pedal sheared and I was
>> going about 7mph. An emergency turn to the right and ran the plane
off
>
>> into the weeds.
>>
>> No damage but it was a little close for comfort.
>>
>> Hoping ZAC will replace my pedals but if not does anyone have any
>> knowledge about welding up a previosly fractured weld in 4103? Does
>> one use a standard rod for gas welding?
>>
>> I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> 351.3 hours.
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Frank, sorry to hear about your problem, but thankful the outcome was safe.
My friend Jim Hoak at Berryhill, GA had his pedal crack much as yours and he
simply purchased another from Zenith. He did weld the support gussets on the
replacement. His problem happen just prior of my building that stage so I was
forewarned. I made four 03 steel gussets and arch welded them, ground smooth,
primed and painted. Hopefully, ZAC will beef up that portion of there product
in the future. Regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
With the (low) experience I have now with our new 701 and the previous experience
flying ultralights: Brakes are used in a diferent way in airplanes than in
cars... In other words, braking is only for closing the radius of a 180 turn
(wheel fully stoped) or practically stoping when taxing. Is better to plan
in advance. I was teached that a good pilot will not need to change his brake
pads in years (even in a tail dragger).
When landing, let the plane rol until it bleeds the speed off, then turn at the
strip exit (or turn around) using minimal braking action.
I know that flying the 701 we will all be landing in short fields (this was the
first though when choosing this plane) but they will not be all the landings
like this.
Is like "taking chances" (Mom's words) when driving in a two way county road or
rushing to a cross street when the green light has "lots" of time already and
could change any second, one foot on the accel and the other ready on the brake
pedal...
If you do it as your everyday driving you will crash some day (or get a ticket)...
Well, I just thought of this, not directly related with the pedals, but as "learning
with some hangar talk" type. Even so, I will check the wall size in our
pedals next saturday, and in the year mantainance (or sooner) we will put
the gussets in the pedals.
Just in case I land near a "lighted" intersection :-) :-) :-)
Frank, is good to know that everything came out well in this one.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive.
Chuck Deiterich <cfd@thegateway.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich"
Frank,
Brake intensifiers are kits from Matco. They are new smaller pistons and
sleeves that fit inside the original brake cylinder reducing the size of the
piston which give about 60% more hydraulic mechanical advantage. That's the
plan.
But I put some in my 701 and removed them when I got back home after the
first flight with them. Apparently the O-ring at the top outside of the
sleeve, which is supposed to seal the outside of the sleeve to the inside of
the brake cylinder, is not good enough. When I stepped on the brakes they
held a little and then just got softer. I guess the brake fluid was pushed
up between the sleeve and the cylinder wall. I installed them according to
the directions. My brakes will just hold at 1900 prop RPM again.
Chuck D.
N701TX
Jabiru 2200
---------------------------------
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Dunning <peterd@metec.co.nz>
Hi Chuck
I went through the exercise of installing the MATCO brake intensifiers
to my 601 about two years ago and ran into problem of the action going
"soft".
It was apparent that the brake fluid was leaking past the internal seals so
I
went back to MATCO.
It was very easy to damage an "O" ring during re-installation,
but the problem was that the wrong seals had come from the factory. I
suspect
you had the same experience....the seals I refer to comprised a metal washer
with
the rubber seal in the centre as an assy. (I would need to look up my notes
for the name of
this seal type but other listers may know it anyway). The seal fitted over
the piston
shaft and prevented leakage of fluid.
MATCO sent replacements and the end result was excellent.
Cheers
Peter Dunning
CH601HD/912S/ZK-SPD
Back on construction.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
> Apparently the O-ring at the top outside of the
> sleeve, which is supposed to seal the outside of the sleeve to the inside
> of
> the brake cylinder, is not good enough.
Message 16
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| Subject: | FAA inspection complete |
20, 2004) at 02/22/2005 03:56:38 PM,
Serialize complete at 02/22/2005 03:56:38 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
Just finished my FAA inspection on N601LE and all went well. The
FAA rep (Jim) was great to work with and the only issue he found related
to the Name Plate. It needs to read exactly like the registration -
Namely: Long Charles F not Charles F Long. All and all the inspection
process was a very positive experience. I can live with purchasing
another $3 Name plate! Next step, high speed taxi work. Should be flying
first or second week of March when the weather in central Indiana starts
to look a little more like spring!
Do Not Archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming <gary@liming.org>
At 10:39 AM 2/22/2005, you wrote:
>Hoping ZAC will replace my pedals but if not does anyone have any
>knowledge about welding up a previosly fractured weld in 4103? Does one
>use a standard rod for gas welding?
Frank,
To answer your question, there is some good information in AC 43.13 about
how you weld repair 4130 tubing by making sleeves, etc. However, I would
be tempted to use some heavier walled stuff with same OD as well as
gussets. Find or become someone who is good with a TIG outfit.
Is it possible you could take a picture of the failed part and post it for us?
Gary Liming
801, but same pedals.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: FAA inspection complete |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Congrats Charles,
Nice to hear another is ready to clear the fences. The FAA
are really nice people trying to do a good job. Will be looking
to hear of your taxi testing and first flights.
What is it you're powered by and are you an XL or earlier?
Larry McFarland - 601 HDS - Stratus - 50+hrs
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <charles.long@gm.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: FAA inspection complete
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
>
> Just finished my FAA inspection on N601LE and all went well. The
> FAA rep (Jim) was great to work with and the only issue he found related
> to the Name Plate. It needs to read exactly like the registration -
> Namely: Long Charles F not Charles F Long. All and all the inspection
> process was a very positive experience. I can live with purchasing
> another $3 Name plate! Next step, high speed taxi work. Should be flying
> first or second week of March when the weather in central Indiana starts
> to look a little more like spring!
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com
Frank, it looks like you purchased your kit in '99? The update that
someone posted, from Zenith, about adding a gusset OR using a thicker wall tube
is
dated '98.
Do you have the thicker wall tube rudder pedals? If so I might think they
need to be heavier still?
do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Well its been flying since '99 and it took 14 months to build so Spring
98 is when I bought the kit.
I don't really know to be honest...The gusset mod is not actually shown
on the drawings (I thought they were)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Flydog1966@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com
Frank, it looks like you purchased your kit in '99? The update that
someone posted, from Zenith, about adding a gusset OR using a thicker
wall tube is dated '98.
Do you have the thicker wall tube rudder pedals? If so I might think
they need to be heavier still?
do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Brakes that brake (or) break the pedals |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron" <agustafson@chartermi.net>
According to the Cleavland brake web site (and Matco are just cheap alternatives),
500 PSI of pressure is needed in the hydraulic system of a aircraft to obtain
adequate brake response. Sitting in my armchair, I find that about 75 pounds
of force is reasonably obtained when I push a scale against the wall (both
feet). A 5/8" MC w/ 75 lbs of foot pressure will give you 244 PSI. So you need
a minimum of 2:1 mechanical advantage to obtain the goal of 500 PSI. That means
that when the brake pedal moves 1", the master cylinder will compress 1/2".
The "intensifiers" are just a way to decrease the MC area and thereby increase
the hydraulic pressure at the expense of fluid movement capacity.
Aircraft brakes, just like car brakes are meant to slow or stop the aircraft from
any speed, and sometimes "as quickly as possible".
If you only fly from or into 300' wide, 3000' long airstrips you'll probably never
learn to make good use of the extra weight of brakes.
With all due respect;
Aaron
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Brakes that brake (or) break the pedals |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Aaron,
The MC-5 brake intensifiers add significantly to braking power on my HDS.
It takes less fluid to apply more force, i.e.; less pushing on the pedals.
On the 4509' runway at MLI, I can land on the numbers, roll out, brake very
effectively and exit the first taxiway to the hangars rather than having to
go past and take the long way back. For a solution to be effective, it
should be simple and cheap. (Assumes fluids are topped off, aluminum lines
and the brakes broken in).
You should back that formula from the other end to determine how much more
it'd cost you to get down to taxi speed without the inexpensive kit
intensifiers. They really work!
Respectfully,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Brakes that brake (or) break the pedals
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron" <agustafson@chartermi.net>
>
> According to the Cleavland brake web site (and Matco are just cheap
> alternatives), 500 PSI of pressure is needed in the hydraulic system of a
> aircraft to obtain adequate brake response. Sitting in my armchair, I
> find that about 75 pounds of force is reasonably obtained when I push a
> scale against the wall (both feet). A 5/8" MC w/ 75 lbs of foot pressure
> will give you 244 PSI. So you need a minimum of 2:1 mechanical advantage
> to obtain the goal of 500 PSI. That means that when the brake pedal moves
> 1", the master cylinder will compress 1/2". The "intensifiers" are just a
> way to decrease the MC area and thereby increase the hydraulic pressure at
> the expense of fluid movement capacity.
>
> Aircraft brakes, just like car brakes are meant to slow or stop the
> aircraft from any speed, and sometimes "as quickly as possible".
>
> If you only fly from or into 300' wide, 3000' long airstrips you'll
> probably never learn to make good use of the extra weight of brakes.
>
> With all due respect;
> Aaron
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi Frank,
I bought my kit in 99. The pedals came with the gussets already welded in
place.
Best regards
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Well its been flying since '99 and it took 14 months to build so Spring
> 98 is when I bought the kit.
>
> I don't really know to be honest...The gusset mod is not actually shown
> on the drawings (I thought they were)
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Flydog1966@aol.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com
>
> Frank, it looks like you purchased your kit in '99? The update that
> someone posted, from Zenith, about adding a gusset OR using a thicker
> wall tube is dated '98.
> Do you have the thicker wall tube rudder pedals? If so I might think
> they need to be heavier still?
> do not archive
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: FAA inspection complete |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Charles.long@gm.com wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
>
> Just finished my FAA inspection on N601LE and all went well. The
>FAA rep (Jim) was great to work with and the only issue he found related
>to the Name Plate. It needs to read exactly like the registration -
>Namely: Long Charles F not Charles F Long. All and all the inspection
>process was a very positive experience. I can live with purchasing
>another $3 Name plate! Next step, high speed taxi work. Should be flying
>first or second week of March when the weather in central Indiana starts
>to look a little more like spring!
>
>Do Not Archive
>
>
That's great Charles!
Can't wait to hear progress and flying reports ! Feels great doesn't it?
Ron
N601TD 27.5 hours
Message 25
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
Check out this site for some cool mods to a 701
including a storage pod.
http://kolbpilot.com/ch701/Steve_Mods.htm
Brett
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kelly Meiste" <kellymeiste@jcwifi.com>
Frank,
FWIW, I purchased my HD kit from ZAC in Jan 99 and mine came with the
thicker wall tubing (no gussets).
Your plane must have been close to the switch over date.
Kelly
601 HD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Well its been flying since '99 and it took 14 months to build so Spring
> 98 is when I bought the kit.
>
> I don't really know to be honest...The gusset mod is not actually shown
> on the drawings (I thought they were)
>
> Frank
Message 27
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
To everyone, please do not use the link in the previous message it only
leads to the old 701.com site. All material plus another 60hrs of work
has gone into the NEW www.ch701.com site. For Steves Mods please use
http://www.ch701.com/builders/Steve%20Johnston/Steve_Mods.htm
Also we have just inherited John Williamson's old website which he took
of the internet after he sold his 701 project. We would like to thank
John for allowing us to still share his complete builders log for the
construction of a Ch701.
If you ever see any reference to Klobpilot.com then you're in the wrong
site. We have left the old 701 site online as the title page has a
re-direct to the new site. Please update your bookmarks to the new site
and check often we are working our little hearts out to provide the best
Builders sites we can at www.ch601.org , www.ch701.com and even at
www.osprey2.com
Mark Townsend
Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L, Osprey 2 serial # 751
President RAA Kitchener/Waterloo Chapter
www.ch601.org
www.ch701.com
www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett
Hanley
Subject: Zenith-List: Baggage pod
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
Check out this site for some cool mods to a 701
including a storage pod.
http://kolbpilot.com/ch701/Steve_Mods.htm
Brett
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Rudder pedal gussets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Gents,
Can someone please send me a pic or drawing or
something that shows the approximate size and location
of the rudder pedal gussets. I have updated drawings
(last year) that, as far as I can remember, have no
mention of these gussets. I just welded mine up a
couple of weeks ago, and can still incorporate gussets
before paint.
Respectfully,
Brandon Tucker
__________________________________
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: FAA inspection complete |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick" <rick.pitcher@verizon.net>
Congratulations!
It feels so good to get that airworthiness certficate, doesn't it. A real
feeling of completion after all those hours of work and worry.
I'm looking forward to hearing how she flies.
Rick
601HD
----- Original Message -----
From: <charles.long@gm.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: FAA inspection complete
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
>
> Just finished my FAA inspection on N601LE and all went well. The
> FAA rep (Jim) was great to work with and the only issue he found related
> to the Name Plate. It needs to read exactly like the registration -
> Namely: Long Charles F not Charles F Long. All and all the inspection
> process was a very positive experience. I can live with purchasing
> another $3 Name plate! Next step, high speed taxi work. Should be flying
> first or second week of March when the weather in central Indiana starts
> to look a little more like spring!
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
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