---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/22/05: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:12 AM - Re: Sea Plane Airstrips (Beckman, Rick) 2. 07:07 AM - Drill bit #20 (Rmtnview@aol.com) 3. 08:03 AM - Re: Drill bit #20 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 4. 08:24 AM - Re: Drill bit #20 (Chuck Deiterich) 5. 08:40 AM - 601 rudder pedal warning. (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 6. 09:02 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (N5SL) 7. 09:02 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Chuck Deiterich) 8. 09:21 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 9. 09:27 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 10. 09:43 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Chuck Deiterich) 11. 09:43 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Larry McFarland) 12. 10:04 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 13. 10:47 AM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 14. 12:45 PM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Gary Gower) 15. 12:46 PM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Peter Dunning) 16. 12:57 PM - FAA inspection complete (charles.long@gm.com) 17. 01:54 PM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Gary Liming) 18. 02:25 PM - Re: FAA inspection complete (Larry McFarland) 19. 02:43 PM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Flydog1966@aol.com) 20. 03:00 PM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 21. 03:35 PM - Brakes that brake (or) break the pedals (Aaron) 22. 04:50 PM - Re: Brakes that brake (or) break the pedals (Larry McFarland) 23. 05:01 PM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Thilo Kind) 24. 05:59 PM - Re: FAA inspection complete (ron dewees) 25. 06:05 PM - Baggage pod (Brett Hanley) 26. 06:09 PM - Re: 601 rudder pedal warning. (Kelly Meiste) 27. 07:52 PM - Re: Baggage pod (Cdngoose) 28. 08:39 PM - Rudder pedal gussets (Brandon Tucker) 29. 10:09 PM - Re: FAA inspection complete (Rick) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:33 AM PST US From: "Beckman, Rick" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sea Plane Airstrips --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" My thanks to all those who responded so quickly to my question on seaplane landing areas. What a great list, indeed!! Rick - Go to www.seaplanes.org In the USA you are lucky to have many thousands of lakes, rivers, and places to fly seaplanes than most of the rest of the world. Generally, unless specifically prohibited, you can land nearly anywhere. The Seaplane association has a directory available. Cheers, CHIP Do not archive! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:58 AM PST US From: Rmtnview@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Drill bit #20 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com Is there a problem in using a #21 drill bit for A5 rivets? Thanks. Rog do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:16 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Drill bit #20 From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Nope as long as you don't have to hammer the rivet in and bend the flanges underneath the hole. FRank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rmtnview@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Drill bit #20 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com Is there a problem in using a #21 drill bit for A5 rivets? Thanks. Rog do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:21 AM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill bit #20 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" That's what I used, as recommended by Tony Bingelis. Chuck D. N701TX ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: Drill bit #20 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com > > Is there a problem in using a #21 drill bit for A5 rivets? Thanks. Rog > > do not archive > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday when my left rudder pedal sheared off at the point where the drawings suggest adding the gusset plate. Of course as I had no welding gear at the time and I thought I was buying a kit with all the welded parts done for me I installed the pedals as is. The pedal sheared off just as I was exiting the runway and coming nose to nose with a taxing C152. Knowing I had enough room to get my wing under his wing I was not too woried, then the pedal sheared and I was going about 7mph. An emergency turn to the right and ran the plane off into the weeds. No damage but it was a little close for comfort. Hoping ZAC will replace my pedals but if not does anyone have any knowledge about welding up a previosly fractured weld in 4103? Does one use a standard rod for gas welding? I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure. Frank 351.3 hours. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:07 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Sorry to hear about this Frank: I welded up my rudder pedals recently and it was not a big deal. I chose belt and suspenders by using a heavier wall tubing and adding the gusset to the left rudder pedal. See the finished product here: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/2_19_05_Pedals.jpg I think there is a drawing update on the ZAC website showing the heavier wall tubing or the added gusset. For welding 4130, a mild steel, copper coated rod was recommended to me, so that's what I used. If you choose to beef up your pedals, I think the recommendation was to add the gusset to both left and right sides. I didn't do the gusset on right pedal since I have the thicker wall pipe. Let me know if you have trouble finding the drawing or if you need wall thicknesses, welding rod specs, etc. Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ N5SL (Reserved) 601XL/Corvair "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday Does one use a standard rod for gas welding? I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure. Frank --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:07 AM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Frank, Here is what ZAC's web pages say: CH 601 and CH 701 Rudder Pedals February 17, 1998 Although a large number of the above aircraft have many hundreds, even thousands, of hours without any problems, it has come to our attention that lately several rudder pedals have been broken during operation (usually on the left pilot side pedal). From the designer's standpoint, this can happen when: Using the wrong material and/or technique; Modifying the geometry of rudder and/or brake pedals; Using the rudder pedals in a very rough manner (we have very little "feel" in our legs and feet); Applying the brakes by pushing excessively hard on the pedals; A combination of the above which may cause cracks in the pedal assembly leading to failure. WHAT YOU NEED TO DO: Check the bottom of the pedals near the welds to the horizontal tube. Do not fly the aircraft if you detect cracks or deformation of the tubes and/or welds. Replace the existing rudder pedals with new ones made with 4130N tubing, x 0.049" or 0.058" (use welding rod AWS-A.5-2-69 (RG60), or Another solution is to weld triangular gussets (4130N t=.032" or .040", or steel t=.080" / gauge 14) on each side of the tubes, as shown below: Chuck D. N701TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday when my left rudder pedal > sheared off at the point where the drawings suggest adding the gusset > plate. Of course as I had no welding gear at the time and I thought I > was buying a kit with all the welded parts done for me I installed the > pedals as is. > > The pedal sheared off just as I was exiting the runway and coming nose > to nose with a taxing C152. Knowing I had enough room to get my wing > under his wing I was not too woried, then the pedal sheared and I was > going about 7mph. An emergency turn to the right and ran the plane off > into the weeds. > > No damage but it was a little close for comfort. > > Hoping ZAC will replace my pedals but if not does anyone have any > knowledge about welding up a previosly fractured weld in 4103? Does one > use a standard rod for gas welding? > > I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure. > > Frank > > 351.3 hours. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:16 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Ha...yeah pushing excessively hard because the brakes barely work....:) Speaking of which, did I not see some infor about using "brake intensivfiers"...what ever thay are?...Does this have something to do with improving the geometry of the master cylinder attach and therefore would be a good time to incorporate a modification? Thanks Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Deiterich Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" --> Frank, Here is what ZAC's web pages say: CH 601 and CH 701 Rudder Pedals February 17, 1998 Although a large number of the above aircraft have many hundreds, even thousands, of hours without any problems, it has come to our attention that lately several rudder pedals have been broken during operation (usually on the left pilot side pedal). From the designer's standpoint, this can happen when: Using the wrong material and/or technique; Modifying the geometry of rudder and/or brake pedals; Using the rudder pedals in a very rough manner (we have very little "feel" in our legs and feet); Applying the brakes by pushing excessively hard on the pedals; A combination of the above which may cause cracks in the pedal assembly leading to failure. WHAT YOU NEED TO DO: Check the bottom of the pedals near the welds to the horizontal tube. Do not fly the aircraft if you detect cracks or deformation of the tubes and/or welds. Replace the existing rudder pedals with new ones made with 4130N tubing, x 0.049" or 0.058" (use welding rod AWS-A.5-2-69 (RG60), or Another solution is to weld triangular gussets (4130N t=.032" or .040", or steel t=.080" / gauge 14) on each side of the tubes, as shown below: Chuck D. N701TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday when my left rudder pedal > sheared off at the point where the drawings suggest adding the gusset > plate. Of course as I had no welding gear at the time and I thought I > was buying a kit with all the welded parts done for me I installed the > pedals as is. > > The pedal sheared off just as I was exiting the runway and coming nose > to nose with a taxing C152. Knowing I had enough room to get my wing > under his wing I was not too woried, then the pedal sheared and I was > going about 7mph. An emergency turn to the right and ran the plane off > into the weeds. > > No damage but it was a little close for comfort. > > Hoping ZAC will replace my pedals but if not does anyone have any > knowledge about welding up a previosly fractured weld in 4103? Does > one use a standard rod for gas welding? > > I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure. > > Frank > > 351.3 hours. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:27:02 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Thanks Scott...it could have been much worse!...I was having visions of literally going nose to nose with a large expensive rotating metal meat cleaver! I have a number of copper coated rods so I assume thase are ok with 4130...i.e nothing special? Would rather build the RV but hey...two hours work and I'm flying again vs. 800 for the RV...No contest...:) Thanks Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Sorry to hear about this Frank: I welded up my rudder pedals recently and it was not a big deal. I chose belt and suspenders by using a heavier wall tubing and adding the gusset to the left rudder pedal. See the finished product here: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/2_19_05_Pedals.jpg I think there is a drawing update on the ZAC website showing the heavier wall tubing or the added gusset. For welding 4130, a mild steel, copper coated rod was recommended to me, so that's what I used. If you choose to beef up your pedals, I think the recommendation was to add the gusset to both left and right sides. I didn't do the gusset on right pedal since I have the thicker wall pipe. Let me know if you have trouble finding the drawing or if you need wall thicknesses, welding rod specs, etc. Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ N5SL (Reserved) 601XL/Corvair "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday Does one use a standard rod for gas welding? I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure. Frank --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:32 AM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Frank, Brake intensifiers are kits from Matco. They are new smaller pistons and sleeves that fit inside the original brake cylinder reducing the size of the piston which give about 60% more hydraulic mechanical advantage. That's the plan. But I put some in my 701 and removed them when I got back home after the first flight with them. Apparently the O-ring at the top outside of the sleeve, which is supposed to seal the outside of the sleeve to the inside of the brake cylinder, is not good enough. When I stepped on the brakes they held a little and then just got softer. I guess the brake fluid was pushed up between the sleeve and the cylinder wall. I installed them according to the directions. My brakes will just hold at 1900 prop RPM again. Chuck D. N701TX Jabiru 2200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > Ha...yeah pushing excessively hard because the brakes barely work....:) > > Speaking of which, did I not see some infor about using "brake > intensivfiers"...what ever thay are?...Does this have something to do > with improving the geometry of the master cylinder attach and therefore > would be a good time to incorporate a modification? > > Thanks > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck > Deiterich > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" > --> > > Frank, > Here is what ZAC's web pages say: > CH 601 and CH 701 Rudder Pedals > > February 17, 1998 > > Although a large number of the above aircraft have many hundreds, even > thousands, of hours without any problems, it has come to our attention > that lately several rudder pedals have been broken during operation > (usually on the left pilot side pedal). > > >From the designer's standpoint, this can happen when: > > Using the wrong material and/or technique; Modifying the geometry of > rudder and/or brake pedals; Using the rudder pedals in a very rough > manner (we have very little "feel" > in our legs and feet); > Applying the brakes by pushing excessively hard on the pedals; A > combination of the above which may cause cracks in the pedal assembly > leading to failure. > > > WHAT YOU NEED TO DO: > > Check the bottom of the pedals near the welds to the horizontal tube. Do > not fly the aircraft if you detect cracks or deformation of the tubes > and/or welds. > Replace the existing rudder pedals with new ones made with 4130N tubing, > x 0.049" or 0.058" (use welding rod AWS-A.5-2-69 (RG60), or Another > solution is to weld triangular gussets (4130N t=.032" or .040", or steel > t=.080" / gauge 14) on each side of the tubes, as shown below: > Chuck D. > N701TX > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > > > Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday when my left rudder pedal > > sheared off at the point where the drawings suggest adding the gusset > > plate. Of course as I had no welding gear at the time and I thought I > > was buying a kit with all the welded parts done for me I installed the > > > pedals as is. > > > > The pedal sheared off just as I was exiting the runway and coming nose > > > to nose with a taxing C152. Knowing I had enough room to get my wing > > under his wing I was not too woried, then the pedal sheared and I was > > going about 7mph. An emergency turn to the right and ran the plane off > > > into the weeds. > > > > No damage but it was a little close for comfort. > > > > Hoping ZAC will replace my pedals but if not does anyone have any > > knowledge about welding up a previosly fractured weld in 4103? Does > > one use a standard rod for gas welding? > > > > I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure. > > > > Frank > > > > 351.3 hours. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:32 AM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Frank, I'm surprised you've not gone to the brake intensifiers. The brakes are a real compromise without them. This you should put on your "to-do" list while you've got things apart. They are a add-in that reduces the piston area and increases the force you exert hydraulically. It's a bit of fussy work getting the 0-ring in, but the modification is not rocket science and this is an excellent time to do it. Be sure to get the instructions correct as there is slight ambiguity the way I read the depth check. Larry McFarland - 601HDS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > Ha...yeah pushing excessively hard because the brakes barely work....:) > > Speaking of which, did I not see some infor about using "brake > intensivfiers"...what ever thay are?...Does this have something to do > with improving the geometry of the master cylinder attach and therefore > would be a good time to incorporate a modification? > > Thanks > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck > Deiterich > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" > --> > > Frank, > Here is what ZAC's web pages say: > CH 601 and CH 701 Rudder Pedals > > February 17, 1998 > > Although a large number of the above aircraft have many hundreds, even > thousands, of hours without any problems, it has come to our attention > that lately several rudder pedals have been broken during operation > (usually on the left pilot side pedal). > > From the designer's standpoint, this can happen when: > > Using the wrong material and/or technique; Modifying the geometry of > rudder and/or brake pedals; Using the rudder pedals in a very rough > manner (we have very little "feel" > in our legs and feet); > Applying the brakes by pushing excessively hard on the pedals; A > combination of the above which may cause cracks in the pedal assembly > leading to failure. > > > WHAT YOU NEED TO DO: > > Check the bottom of the pedals near the welds to the horizontal tube. Do > not fly the aircraft if you detect cracks or deformation of the tubes > and/or welds. > Replace the existing rudder pedals with new ones made with 4130N tubing, > x 0.049" or 0.058" (use welding rod AWS-A.5-2-69 (RG60), or Another > solution is to weld triangular gussets (4130N t=.032" or .040", or steel > t=.080" / gauge 14) on each side of the tubes, as shown below: > Chuck D. > N701TX > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > >> >> Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday when my left rudder pedal >> sheared off at the point where the drawings suggest adding the gusset >> plate. Of course as I had no welding gear at the time and I thought I >> was buying a kit with all the welded parts done for me I installed the > >> pedals as is. >> >> The pedal sheared off just as I was exiting the runway and coming nose > >> to nose with a taxing C152. Knowing I had enough room to get my wing >> under his wing I was not too woried, then the pedal sheared and I was >> going about 7mph. An emergency turn to the right and ran the plane off > >> into the weeds. >> >> No damage but it was a little close for comfort. >> >> Hoping ZAC will replace my pedals but if not does anyone have any >> knowledge about welding up a previosly fractured weld in 4103? Does >> one use a standard rod for gas welding? >> >> I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure. >> >> Frank >> >> 351.3 hours. >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:02 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Well that is one vote for and one against on the intesifiers. This kit was not available (as far as I know) when I built my plane in 1999. I was also a little surprised that you welded the gusset plate on the back side of the tube when the stress is all at the front of the tube...Comments? Thanks Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" --> Frank, I'm surprised you've not gone to the brake intensifiers. The brakes are a real compromise without them. This you should put on your "to-do" list while you've got things apart. They are a add-in that reduces the piston area and increases the force you exert hydraulically. It's a bit of fussy work getting the 0-ring in, but the modification is not rocket science and this is an excellent time to do it. Be sure to get the instructions correct as there is slight ambiguity the way I read the depth check. Larry McFarland - 601HDS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > Ha...yeah pushing excessively hard because the brakes barely work....:) > > Speaking of which, did I not see some infor about using "brake > intensivfiers"...what ever thay are?...Does this have something to do > with improving the geometry of the master cylinder attach and therefore > would be a good time to incorporate a modification? > > Thanks > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck > Deiterich > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" > --> > > Frank, > Here is what ZAC's web pages say: > CH 601 and CH 701 Rudder Pedals > > February 17, 1998 > > Although a large number of the above aircraft have many hundreds, even > thousands, of hours without any problems, it has come to our attention > that lately several rudder pedals have been broken during operation > (usually on the left pilot side pedal). > > From the designer's standpoint, this can happen when: > > Using the wrong material and/or technique; Modifying the geometry of > rudder and/or brake pedals; Using the rudder pedals in a very rough > manner (we have very little "feel" > in our legs and feet); > Applying the brakes by pushing excessively hard on the pedals; A > combination of the above which may cause cracks in the pedal assembly > leading to failure. > > > WHAT YOU NEED TO DO: > > Check the bottom of the pedals near the welds to the horizontal tube. Do > not fly the aircraft if you detect cracks or deformation of the tubes > and/or welds. > Replace the existing rudder pedals with new ones made with 4130N tubing, > x 0.049" or 0.058" (use welding rod AWS-A.5-2-69 (RG60), or Another > solution is to weld triangular gussets (4130N t=.032" or .040", or steel > t=.080" / gauge 14) on each side of the tubes, as shown below: > Chuck D. > N701TX > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > >> >> Guys...I had a narrow escape yesterday when my left rudder pedal >> sheared off at the point where the drawings suggest adding the gusset >> plate. Of course as I had no welding gear at the time and I thought I >> was buying a kit with all the welded parts done for me I installed the > >> pedals as is. >> >> The pedal sheared off just as I was exiting the runway and coming nose > >> to nose with a taxing C152. Knowing I had enough room to get my wing >> under his wing I was not too woried, then the pedal sheared and I was >> going about 7mph. An emergency turn to the right and ran the plane off > >> into the weeds. >> >> No damage but it was a little close for comfort. >> >> Hoping ZAC will replace my pedals but if not does anyone have any >> knowledge about welding up a previosly fractured weld in 4103? Does >> one use a standard rod for gas welding? >> >> I will be putting the gusset plates in for sure. >> >> Frank >> >> 351.3 hours. >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:48 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Frank, sorry to hear about your problem, but thankful the outcome was safe. My friend Jim Hoak at Berryhill, GA had his pedal crack much as yours and he simply purchased another from Zenith. He did weld the support gussets on the replacement. His problem happen just prior of my building that stage so I was forewarned. I made four 03 steel gussets and arch welded them, ground smooth, primed and painted. Hopefully, ZAC will beef up that portion of there product in the future. Regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:38 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower With the (low) experience I have now with our new 701 and the previous experience flying ultralights: Brakes are used in a diferent way in airplanes than in cars... In other words, braking is only for closing the radius of a 180 turn (wheel fully stoped) or practically stoping when taxing. Is better to plan in advance. I was teached that a good pilot will not need to change his brake pads in years (even in a tail dragger). When landing, let the plane rol until it bleeds the speed off, then turn at the strip exit (or turn around) using minimal braking action. I know that flying the 701 we will all be landing in short fields (this was the first though when choosing this plane) but they will not be all the landings like this. Is like "taking chances" (Mom's words) when driving in a two way county road or rushing to a cross street when the green light has "lots" of time already and could change any second, one foot on the accel and the other ready on the brake pedal... If you do it as your everyday driving you will crash some day (or get a ticket)... Well, I just thought of this, not directly related with the pedals, but as "learning with some hangar talk" type. Even so, I will check the wall size in our pedals next saturday, and in the year mantainance (or sooner) we will put the gussets in the pedals. Just in case I land near a "lighted" intersection :-) :-) :-) Frank, is good to know that everything came out well in this one. Saludos Gary Gower. Do not archive. Chuck Deiterich wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Frank, Brake intensifiers are kits from Matco. They are new smaller pistons and sleeves that fit inside the original brake cylinder reducing the size of the piston which give about 60% more hydraulic mechanical advantage. That's the plan. But I put some in my 701 and removed them when I got back home after the first flight with them. Apparently the O-ring at the top outside of the sleeve, which is supposed to seal the outside of the sleeve to the inside of the brake cylinder, is not good enough. When I stepped on the brakes they held a little and then just got softer. I guess the brake fluid was pushed up between the sleeve and the cylinder wall. I installed them according to the directions. My brakes will just hold at 1900 prop RPM again. Chuck D. N701TX Jabiru 2200 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:21 PM PST US From: Peter Dunning Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Dunning Hi Chuck I went through the exercise of installing the MATCO brake intensifiers to my 601 about two years ago and ran into problem of the action going "soft". It was apparent that the brake fluid was leaking past the internal seals so I went back to MATCO. It was very easy to damage an "O" ring during re-installation, but the problem was that the wrong seals had come from the factory. I suspect you had the same experience....the seals I refer to comprised a metal washer with the rubber seal in the centre as an assy. (I would need to look up my notes for the name of this seal type but other listers may know it anyway). The seal fitted over the piston shaft and prevented leakage of fluid. MATCO sent replacements and the end result was excellent. Cheers Peter Dunning CH601HD/912S/ZK-SPD Back on construction. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" > Apparently the O-ring at the top outside of the > sleeve, which is supposed to seal the outside of the sleeve to the inside > of > the brake cylinder, is not good enough. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:41 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: FAA inspection complete From: charles.long@gm.com 20, 2004) at 02/22/2005 03:56:38 PM, Serialize complete at 02/22/2005 03:56:38 PM --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com Just finished my FAA inspection on N601LE and all went well. The FAA rep (Jim) was great to work with and the only issue he found related to the Name Plate. It needs to read exactly like the registration - Namely: Long Charles F not Charles F Long. All and all the inspection process was a very positive experience. I can live with purchasing another $3 Name plate! Next step, high speed taxi work. Should be flying first or second week of March when the weather in central Indiana starts to look a little more like spring! Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:20 PM PST US From: Gary Liming Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming At 10:39 AM 2/22/2005, you wrote: >Hoping ZAC will replace my pedals but if not does anyone have any >knowledge about welding up a previosly fractured weld in 4103? Does one >use a standard rod for gas welding? Frank, To answer your question, there is some good information in AC 43.13 about how you weld repair 4130 tubing by making sleeves, etc. However, I would be tempted to use some heavier walled stuff with same OD as well as gussets. Find or become someone who is good with a TIG outfit. Is it possible you could take a picture of the failed part and post it for us? Gary Liming 801, but same pedals. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:59 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA inspection complete --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Congrats Charles, Nice to hear another is ready to clear the fences. The FAA are really nice people trying to do a good job. Will be looking to hear of your taxi testing and first flights. What is it you're powered by and are you an XL or earlier? Larry McFarland - 601 HDS - Stratus - 50+hrs Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: FAA inspection complete > --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com > > Just finished my FAA inspection on N601LE and all went well. The > FAA rep (Jim) was great to work with and the only issue he found related > to the Name Plate. It needs to read exactly like the registration - > Namely: Long Charles F not Charles F Long. All and all the inspection > process was a very positive experience. I can live with purchasing > another $3 Name plate! Next step, high speed taxi work. Should be flying > first or second week of March when the weather in central Indiana starts > to look a little more like spring! > > Do Not Archive > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:02 PM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com Frank, it looks like you purchased your kit in '99? The update that someone posted, from Zenith, about adding a gusset OR using a thicker wall tube is dated '98. Do you have the thicker wall tube rudder pedals? If so I might think they need to be heavier still? do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:23 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Well its been flying since '99 and it took 14 months to build so Spring 98 is when I bought the kit. I don't really know to be honest...The gusset mod is not actually shown on the drawings (I thought they were) Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com Frank, it looks like you purchased your kit in '99? The update that someone posted, from Zenith, about adding a gusset OR using a thicker wall tube is dated '98. Do you have the thicker wall tube rudder pedals? If so I might think they need to be heavier still? do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:35:47 PM PST US From: "Aaron" Subject: Zenith-List: Brakes that brake (or) break the pedals --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron" According to the Cleavland brake web site (and Matco are just cheap alternatives), 500 PSI of pressure is needed in the hydraulic system of a aircraft to obtain adequate brake response. Sitting in my armchair, I find that about 75 pounds of force is reasonably obtained when I push a scale against the wall (both feet). A 5/8" MC w/ 75 lbs of foot pressure will give you 244 PSI. So you need a minimum of 2:1 mechanical advantage to obtain the goal of 500 PSI. That means that when the brake pedal moves 1", the master cylinder will compress 1/2". The "intensifiers" are just a way to decrease the MC area and thereby increase the hydraulic pressure at the expense of fluid movement capacity. Aircraft brakes, just like car brakes are meant to slow or stop the aircraft from any speed, and sometimes "as quickly as possible". If you only fly from or into 300' wide, 3000' long airstrips you'll probably never learn to make good use of the extra weight of brakes. With all due respect; Aaron do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:24 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Brakes that brake (or) break the pedals --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Aaron, The MC-5 brake intensifiers add significantly to braking power on my HDS. It takes less fluid to apply more force, i.e.; less pushing on the pedals. On the 4509' runway at MLI, I can land on the numbers, roll out, brake very effectively and exit the first taxiway to the hangars rather than having to go past and take the long way back. For a solution to be effective, it should be simple and cheap. (Assumes fluids are topped off, aluminum lines and the brakes broken in). You should back that formula from the other end to determine how much more it'd cost you to get down to taxi speed without the inexpensive kit intensifiers. They really work! Respectfully, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Subject: Zenith-List: Brakes that brake (or) break the pedals > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron" > > According to the Cleavland brake web site (and Matco are just cheap > alternatives), 500 PSI of pressure is needed in the hydraulic system of a > aircraft to obtain adequate brake response. Sitting in my armchair, I > find that about 75 pounds of force is reasonably obtained when I push a > scale against the wall (both feet). A 5/8" MC w/ 75 lbs of foot pressure > will give you 244 PSI. So you need a minimum of 2:1 mechanical advantage > to obtain the goal of 500 PSI. That means that when the brake pedal moves > 1", the master cylinder will compress 1/2". The "intensifiers" are just a > way to decrease the MC area and thereby increase the hydraulic pressure at > the expense of fluid movement capacity. > > Aircraft brakes, just like car brakes are meant to slow or stop the > aircraft from any speed, and sometimes "as quickly as possible". > > If you only fly from or into 300' wide, 3000' long airstrips you'll > probably never learn to make good use of the extra weight of brakes. > > With all due respect; > Aaron ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:54 PM PST US From: "Thilo Kind" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi Frank, I bought my kit in 99. The pedals came with the gussets already welded in place. Best regards Thilo Kind ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > Well its been flying since '99 and it took 14 months to build so Spring > 98 is when I bought the kit. > > I don't really know to be honest...The gusset mod is not actually shown > on the drawings (I thought they were) > > Frank > > Do not archive > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Flydog1966@aol.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com > > Frank, it looks like you purchased your kit in '99? The update that > someone posted, from Zenith, about adding a gusset OR using a thicker > wall tube is dated '98. > Do you have the thicker wall tube rudder pedals? If so I might think > they need to be heavier still? > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:07 PM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA inspection complete --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Charles.long@gm.com wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com > > Just finished my FAA inspection on N601LE and all went well. The >FAA rep (Jim) was great to work with and the only issue he found related >to the Name Plate. It needs to read exactly like the registration - >Namely: Long Charles F not Charles F Long. All and all the inspection >process was a very positive experience. I can live with purchasing >another $3 Name plate! Next step, high speed taxi work. Should be flying >first or second week of March when the weather in central Indiana starts >to look a little more like spring! > >Do Not Archive > > That's great Charles! Can't wait to hear progress and flying reports ! Feels great doesn't it? Ron N601TD 27.5 hours ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:40 PM PST US From: Brett Hanley Subject: Zenith-List: Baggage pod --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley Check out this site for some cool mods to a 701 including a storage pod. http://kolbpilot.com/ch701/Steve_Mods.htm Brett ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:54 PM PST US From: "Kelly Meiste" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kelly Meiste" Frank, FWIW, I purchased my HD kit from ZAC in Jan 99 and mine came with the thicker wall tubing (no gussets). Your plane must have been close to the switch over date. Kelly 601 HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 rudder pedal warning. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > Well its been flying since '99 and it took 14 months to build so Spring > 98 is when I bought the kit. > > I don't really know to be honest...The gusset mod is not actually shown > on the drawings (I thought they were) > > Frank ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:10 PM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Baggage pod --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> To everyone, please do not use the link in the previous message it only leads to the old 701.com site. All material plus another 60hrs of work has gone into the NEW www.ch701.com site. For Steves Mods please use http://www.ch701.com/builders/Steve%20Johnston/Steve_Mods.htm Also we have just inherited John Williamson's old website which he took of the internet after he sold his 701 project. We would like to thank John for allowing us to still share his complete builders log for the construction of a Ch701. If you ever see any reference to Klobpilot.com then you're in the wrong site. We have left the old 701 site online as the title page has a re-direct to the new site. Please update your bookmarks to the new site and check often we are working our little hearts out to provide the best Builders sites we can at www.ch601.org , www.ch701.com and even at www.osprey2.com Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L, Osprey 2 serial # 751 President RAA Kitchener/Waterloo Chapter www.ch601.org www.ch701.com www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Hanley Subject: Zenith-List: Baggage pod --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley Check out this site for some cool mods to a 701 including a storage pod. http://kolbpilot.com/ch701/Steve_Mods.htm Brett ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:36 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder pedal gussets --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Gents, Can someone please send me a pic or drawing or something that shows the approximate size and location of the rudder pedal gussets. I have updated drawings (last year) that, as far as I can remember, have no mention of these gussets. I just welded mine up a couple of weeks ago, and can still incorporate gussets before paint. Respectfully, Brandon Tucker __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:21 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA inspection complete --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick" Congratulations! It feels so good to get that airworthiness certficate, doesn't it. A real feeling of completion after all those hours of work and worry. I'm looking forward to hearing how she flies. Rick 601HD ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: FAA inspection complete > --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com > > Just finished my FAA inspection on N601LE and all went well. The > FAA rep (Jim) was great to work with and the only issue he found related > to the Name Plate. It needs to read exactly like the registration - > Namely: Long Charles F not Charles F Long. All and all the inspection > process was a very positive experience. I can live with purchasing > another $3 Name plate! Next step, high speed taxi work. Should be flying > first or second week of March when the weather in central Indiana starts > to look a little more like spring! > > Do Not Archive > > >