Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:26 AM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle)
2. 06:53 AM - Re: Brake bleeding (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
3. 07:23 AM - Re: Rivets revisited (Zed Smith)
4. 07:32 AM - Master cylinders recommendations (MElrod3732@aol.com)
5. 10:23 AM - 801 pre-purchase inspection (Ron or Erin Weich)
6. 10:24 AM - Brake Bleeding (Clyde Barcus)
7. 11:29 AM - Re: Rivets (Rick)
8. 03:44 PM - Re: C-GOXL from CYKF to 1H0 (Gary Liming)
9. 03:44 PM - Re: C-GOXL from CYKF to 1H0 (Gary Liming)
10. 04:38 PM - Re: Rivets (Tim & Diane Shankland)
11. 05:21 PM - Re: C-GOXL from CYKF to 1H0 (B Johnson)
12. 06:19 PM - Re: Rivets (Hal Rozema)
13. 07:20 PM - Re: Zenith brake pedal modifications (ron dewees)
14. 07:51 PM - Re: Re: Zenith brake pedal modifications (Craig Payne)
15. 07:56 PM - I'm Looking for a CH701 for sale? (Clifford Dow)
16. 08:00 PM - Re: Re: Zenith brake pedal modifications (ron dewees)
17. 08:14 PM - Upright Channel 6B5-6 (Lance Gingell)
18. 08:30 PM - Re: Re: Zenith brake pedal modifications (Craig Payne)
19. 09:58 PM - Re: Re: Rivets revisited (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Lister,
Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Brake bleeding |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Dick, on my XL brakes I made a reservoir from a plastic bottle. I used an
empty Grecian Formal (hair color for men) bottle. It has the perfect nipple for
a 1/8 clear plastic hose that I fit over the bleeder nipple. Opened the puck
reservoir top, inverted the bottle and squeezed in the brake fluid. Had a
second person watch the reservoir to full and then closed the brake bleeder
nipple. Worked great and no mess or pumping and bleeding. Best of luck, Bill
of
Georgia
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rivets revisited |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
do not archive
The question of a source for the "A4" and "A5" rivets comes up from time to time
on this list.
One of the two things everybody has is an opinion........here's mine:
Buy the ZAC rivets and move on to the really important stuff.
Here's my reasoning: By the time you finish your project you will have spent several
hundred
of your national currency on drill bits, felt-tip markers, camera batteries, scratch
pads, cheap paint brushes,
paper towels, wiping rags, coffee, beer, food for the hangar cat, and all the other
"consumables".
You will have cut up lots of poster paper to make templates. You will make one
too many of something, or two
"lefts" when you meant to make one "right" and one "left". You will drop and break
at least one
of your wife's prize dinnerware plates (Oops!) even after she laid down the law
about eating in the house, NOT in your workshop, and you'll drill out more than
a few rivets to re-do something.
All of this is in the relm of "overhead" for your project.
That roll of masking tape you bought last year will have lost its "sticky" and
you'll throw it away.
This is the long way around to this: The "extra" you may spend at ZAC for rivets,
spread over the life
of the construction process, is small. But you WILL have the "correct" rivets.
I am acquainted with a fellow who enjoys fishing. He must have 500 different lures.
Can't use but one at a time, but I'm not going to berate his spendthrift
ways.......he likes to fish.
Likewise my golfing friend.......he probably owns one of every "golf improvement"
video ever made.
Shoots a terrible game, but loves it.
Buy the ZAC rivets, and spend your time wearing out shoes walking around the project.
The above isn't intended to start a rip-roaring list discussion on the merits of
various rivets, but rather
to offer the opinion that the "rivet source" question is not nearly as important
as all the other advice one can glean from this list.
Many of the builders who participate here have excellent web sites, with photos,
which are invaluable to the
construction process.
My personal thanks to them. The "details" in the photos answered a lot of those
questions where I couldn't see the forest because of the trees.
Zed/701/R912/90+% as always
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Master cylinders recommendations |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MElrod3732@aol.com
Hello fellow builders: I need to order the master brake cylinders for my 701
(on amphib floats) and I am seeking recommendations. It appears the most
popular cylinders are made by Matco, but I wanted to know if anyone used
another manufacture, like Cleveland.
Also, does anyone have a setup with a separate reservoir tank?
Please include model numbers with your recommendations.
Thanks in advance, Mike Elrod
No Not Archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | 801 pre-purchase inspection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron or Erin Weich <iveyvet01@sprynet.com>
Howdy,
I am looking at a finished 801 for sale. Any particular areas of
interest or concern to watch for during a pre-purchase inspection?
Thanks,
Ron Weich
Las Cruces, NM
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
I use an inexpensive vacuum pump that you can purchase at any auto parts store
for about twenty bucks. You can bleed brakes by yourself, check vacuum lines,
gauges, mechanical & electrical vacuum pumps, gas lines and gas tanks if you block
off the vents.
Regards:
Clyde Barcus
601 XL Builder
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick" <rick.pitcher@verizon.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred B." <taildragger601@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred B." <taildragger601@yahoo.com>
>
> Listers; Have a question. Am getting materials to scratch build the 601.
> How many rivets do I need to order? Other than ZAC, is there a (cheaper)
> source for the primo rivets that ZAC recpmmends? Appteciate any comments
> as to the ease of the home depot wood brake; any plans sources? All help
> appreciated, thanks... Found the CH601.org, will order aluminum per the
> listed materials...Assembling tools, table, and ideas. Thanks.
>
You'll use several thousand rivets, but you don't need all of them at once.
2,000 A-4's and 1500 A-5's will be plenty for starters.
Even though you're scratch-building, you'll probably be ordering brakes or
fiberglass fairings, etc from ZAC as the build progresses. You can re-stock
the rivet jars when you order your bungees... or wingtips.. You'll know
you've got the right fasteners if you get them from the factory.
Rick
601HD scratch-builder, 103% done
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: C-GOXL from CYKF to 1H0 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming <gary@liming.org>
At 05:24 AM 2/27/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
>
>I flew Art Mitchell's 601XL from Kitchener-Waterloo (CYKF) down to the Creve
>Couer airport (1H0) just west of St. Louis, Mo. on Wednesday, Feb. 23rd.
Hi Grant,
I am based at 1H0, and I am sorry I missed you. I did see Art's (Flypass)
airplane, though, and I wondered about something - since it is an XL, does
the variable pitch prop disqualify it for LSA?
Next time you do ferry duty, let me know and I'll buy you dinner!
Gary
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: C-GOXL from CYKF to 1H0 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming <gary@liming.org>
At 05:24 AM 2/27/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
>
>I flew Art Mitchell's 601XL from Kitchener-Waterloo (CYKF) down to the Creve
>Couer airport (1H0) just west of St. Louis, Mo. on Wednesday, Feb. 23rd.
Hi Grant,
I am based at 1H0, and I am sorry I missed you. I did see Art's (Flypass)
airplane, though, and I wondered about something - since it is an XL, does
the variable pitch prop disqualify it for LSA?
Next time you do ferry duty, let me know and I'll buy you dinner!
Gary
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank@megsinet.net>
Fred,
Check the archives, there are numerous vendors who sell the rivets at a
fraction the price. I have no problem paying a mark up when there is a
value added, but high mark ups for mere pass through are unnecessary.
Tim Shankland
Fred B. wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred B." <taildragger601@yahoo.com>
>
>Listers; Have a question. Am getting materials to scratch build the 601. How
many rivets do I need to order? Other than ZAC, is there a (cheaper) source
for the primo rivets that ZAC recpmmends? Appteciate any comments as to the
ease of the home depot wood brake; any plans sources? All help appreciated, thanks...
Found the CH601.org, will order aluminum per the listed materials...Assembling
tools, table, and ideas. Thanks.
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | C-GOXL from CYKF to 1H0 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Liming
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: C-GOXL from CYKF to 1H0
Hi Grant,
I am based at 1H0, and I am sorry I missed you. I did see Art's (Flypass)
airplane, though, and I wondered about something - since it is an XL, does
the variable pitch prop disqualify it for LSA?
<snipped>
Gary
Yes it does.
There is speculation that placarding the adjustment switch "do not adjust in
flight" would work, however, I doubt that would really fly in a ramp check
(IMHO).
Bruce
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
Tim & Diane Shankland wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank@megsinet.net>
>
>Fred,
>Check the archives, there are numerous vendors who sell the rivets at a
>fraction the price. I have no problem paying a mark up when there is a
>value added, but high mark ups for mere pass through are unnecessary.
>
>Tim Shankland
>
>
>Fred B. wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred B." <taildragger601@yahoo.com>
>>
>>Listers; Have a question. Am getting materials to scratch build the 601. How
many rivets do I need to order? Other than ZAC, is there a (cheaper) source
for the primo rivets that ZAC recpmmends? Appteciate any comments as to the
ease of the home depot wood brake; any plans sources? All help appreciated,
thanks... Found the CH601.org, will order aluminum per the listed materials...Assembling
tools, table, and ideas. Thanks.
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Many other manufacturers do not meet the standards ZAC requires. All
their rivets undergo batch test for shear and tension. It's your life
and responcibilty IMHO
Hal
http://ThePlaneFolks.Net
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith brake pedal modifications |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi fellow Matco enthusiasts -- I got this information from Matco's
engineer tonight and he included the drawings his experiments have come
up with to increase leverage on our Matco MC-5 brakes in the 601 series
of Zenair's . Seems the posted method (at least in my copy of the
plans) had almost no mechanical advantage over actual foot pressure on
the brake bar.
Hope this helps. Matco was very helpful. Sure recommend them for great
follow-up service.
Ron
N601TD
Technical Support wrote:
>Mr. Davidson, Mr. Dewees,
>Here are the drawings for the pedals we used on our simulator. There are
>many ways to accomplish the same thing but this setup allowed use of the
>MC-5 and also eliminates the issue with geometry changing with cylinder
>stroke.
>
>I hope this helps with your setup.
>
>George R. Happ
>MATCO mfg
>801-486-7574 801-486-7581 (F)
>www.matcomfg.com
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith brake pedal modifications |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
Were there supposed to be drawings attached? I think the list strips
them off.
-- Craig
ron dewees wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
>
> Hi fellow Matco enthusiasts -- I got this information from Matco's
> engineer tonight and he included the drawings his experiments have come
> up with to increase leverage on our Matco MC-5 brakes in the 601 series
> of Zenair's . Seems the posted method (at least in my copy of the
> plans) had almost no mechanical advantage over actual foot pressure on
> the brake bar.
> Hope this helps. Matco was very helpful. Sure recommend them for great
> follow-up service.
> Ron
> N601TD
>
>
> Technical Support wrote:
>
>
>>Mr. Davidson, Mr. Dewees,
>>Here are the drawings for the pedals we used on our simulator. There are
>>many ways to accomplish the same thing but this setup allowed use of the
>>MC-5 and also eliminates the issue with geometry changing with cylinder
>>stroke.
>>
>>I hope this helps with your setup.
>>
>>George R. Happ
>>MATCO mfg
>>801-486-7574 801-486-7581 (F)
>>www.matcomfg.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | I'm Looking for a CH701 for sale? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Clifford Dow <cdowjr@yahoo.com>
Anyone know of any CH 701's for sale?
I might be interested in a finished kit with no engine?
contact me directly if you can help.
cliff
cdowjr@yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith brake pedal modifications |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Craig,
My Bad! Forgot that the list won't take attachments. I can send them
to individuals or maybe 601.org will host them? Any other ideas?
Ron
do not archive
Craig Payne wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>Were there supposed to be drawings attached? I think the list strips
>them off.
>
>-- Craig
>
>ron dewees wrote:
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
>>
>>Hi fellow Matco enthusiasts -- I got this information from Matco's
>>engineer tonight and he included the drawings his experiments have come
>>up with to increase leverage on our Matco MC-5 brakes in the 601 series
>>of Zenair's . Seems the posted method (at least in my copy of the
>>plans) had almost no mechanical advantage over actual foot pressure on
>>the brake bar.
>>Hope this helps. Matco was very helpful. Sure recommend them for great
>>follow-up service.
>>Ron
>>N601TD
>>
>>
>>Technical Support wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Mr. Davidson, Mr. Dewees,
>>>Here are the drawings for the pedals we used on our simulator. There are
>>>many ways to accomplish the same thing but this setup allowed use of the
>>>MC-5 and also eliminates the issue with geometry changing with cylinder
>>>stroke.
>>>
>>>I hope this helps with your setup.
>>>
>>>George R. Happ
>>>MATCO mfg
>>>801-486-7574 801-486-7581 (F)
>>>www.matcomfg.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Upright Channel 6B5-6 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
List, I'm fitting 6B5-6, the upright channels on my XL. I had to trim
them a little. Now, the photo guide really isn't clear about drilling
them to the rear channel. It appears on drawing 6B5 that there's a one L
angle somewhere behind the channel, but it appears to be longer than the
channel (which doesn't seem right). I'm guessing there's just an L that
fits in the channel, but if so, which way does it go?
Can anyone clear this up or show me a pic from the back of the rear
channel?
Thanks!
..lance
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith brake pedal modifications |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
See here for how to upload files:
http://www.matronics.com/enclosures.html/
-- Craig
ron dewees wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
>
> Hi Craig,
> My Bad! Forgot that the list won't take attachments. I can send them
> to individuals or maybe 601.org will host them? Any other ideas?
> Ron
>
> do not archive
>
> Craig Payne wrote:
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
>>
>>Were there supposed to be drawings attached? I think the list strips
>>them off.
>>
>>-- Craig
>>
>>ron dewees wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
>>>
>>>Hi fellow Matco enthusiasts -- I got this information from Matco's
>>>engineer tonight and he included the drawings his experiments have come
>>>up with to increase leverage on our Matco MC-5 brakes in the 601 series
>>>of Zenair's . Seems the posted method (at least in my copy of the
>>>plans) had almost no mechanical advantage over actual foot pressure on
>>>the brake bar.
>>>Hope this helps. Matco was very helpful. Sure recommend them for great
>>>follow-up service.
>>>Ron
>>>N601TD
>>>
>>>
>>>Technical Support wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mr. Davidson, Mr. Dewees,
>>>>Here are the drawings for the pedals we used on our simulator. There are
>>>>many ways to accomplish the same thing but this setup allowed use of the
>>>>MC-5 and also eliminates the issue with geometry changing with cylinder
>>>>stroke.
>>>>
>>>>I hope this helps with your setup.
>>>>
>>>>George R. Happ
>>>>MATCO mfg
>>>>801-486-7574 801-486-7581 (F)
>>>>www.matcomfg.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Rivets revisited |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello Zed,
I think that THIS MAIL you posted IS a KEEPER in this list archives,
I kindly ask you to re-post it without the "Do not Archive" signs.
I don't do it because I respect. Is your decision
This way every time some newbie searches for Rivets will read it. Is a very valid
opinion.
I also got the same idea, but didn't find the correct words to post it.
We sometimes spend lots of money in some safety gadget we feel will be needed because
of some personal fear, then: Why not spend the extra few money buying
the correct rivets from ZAC? Just for our piece of mind.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith
do not archive
The question of a source for the "A4" and "A5" rivets comes up from time to time
on this list.
One of the two things everybody has is an opinion........here's mine:
Buy the ZAC rivets and move on to the really important stuff.
Here's my reasoning: By the time you finish your project you will have spent several
hundred
of your national currency on drill bits, felt-tip markers, camera batteries, scratch
pads, cheap paint brushes,
paper towels, wiping rags, coffee, beer, food for the hangar cat, and all the other
"consumables".
You will have cut up lots of poster paper to make templates. You will make one
too many of something, or two
"lefts" when you meant to make one "right" and one "left". You will drop and break
at least one
of your wife's prize dinnerware plates (Oops!) even after she laid down the law
about eating in the house, NOT in your workshop, and you'll drill out more than
a few rivets to re-do something.
All of this is in the realm of "overhead" for your project.
That roll of masking tape you bought last year will have lost its "sticky" and
you'll throw it away.
This is the long way around to this: The "extra" you may spend at ZAC for rivets,
spread over the life
of the construction process, is small. But you WILL have the "correct" rivets.
I am acquainted with a fellow who enjoys fishing. He must have 500 different lures.
Can't use but one at a time, but I'm not going to berate his spendthrift
ways.......he likes to fish.
Likewise my golfing friend.......he probably owns one of every "golf improvement"
video ever made.
Shoots a terrible game, but loves it.
Buy the ZAC rivets, and spend your time wearing out shoes walking around the project.
The above isn't intended to start a rip-roaring list discussion on the merits of
various rivets, but rather
to offer the opinion that the "rivet source" question is not nearly as important
as all the other advice one can glean from this list.
Many of the builders who participate here have excellent web sites, with photos,
which are invaluable to the
construction process.
My personal thanks to them. The "details" in the photos answered a lot of those
questions where I couldn't see the forest because of the trees.
Zed/701/R912/90+% as always
do not archive
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