---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 03/05/05: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:55 AM - Re: Electric Flaps (Rick) 2. 04:16 AM - Re: OT: Financing for Flight Training (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 3. 04:36 AM - Re: Re: microswitch, update (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 4. 06:41 AM - Re: OT: Financing for Flight Training (Stephen R. Look) 5. 07:08 AM - bad parts I got from> "professionals" (Grant Corriveau) 6. 07:21 AM - Tail kit size & weight? (Joe Kerr) 7. 07:27 AM - Re: Tail kit size & weight? (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 8. 08:25 AM - Re: bad parts I got from> "professionals" (Cdngoose) 9. 09:36 AM - Re: Tail kit size & weight? (Al Young) 10. 09:37 AM - Re: Tail kit size & weight? (Al Young) 11. 10:49 AM - Microswitch (Sigmo@aol.com) 12. 11:09 AM - Got my engine! (kevinbonds) 13. 11:34 AM - off topic: racism (kevinbonds) 14. 12:12 PM - Re: about Sale (Tommy Walker) 15. 01:22 PM - Re: OT: Financing for Flight Training (todd@toddtown.com) 16. 01:27 PM - Re: about Sale (Larry McFarland) 17. 02:33 PM - Unfortunate comments. (Gsrth@aol.com) 18. 03:02 PM - Comments (Gsrth@aol.com) 19. 03:31 PM - Corvair Engine (Clyde Barcus) 20. 03:38 PM - First engine run (Trevor Page) 21. 04:07 PM - Re: First engine run (Johann G.) 22. 05:00 PM - Re: Tail kit size & weight? (NYTerminat@aol.com) 23. 05:21 PM - Re: Weight & Balance w/repect to Battery Placement () 24. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: Weight & Balance w/repect to Battery Placement (Craig Payne) 25. 06:31 PM - Re: Re: Weight & Balance w/repect to Battery Placement (Randy Stout) 26. 08:10 PM - Re: Weight & Balance w/repect to Battery Placement () 27. 10:45 PM - Re: First engine run (oil pressure sender failure?) (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:55:18 AM PST US From: Rick Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Electric Flaps --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Thanks Larry, you took a load off my mind. DO NOT ARCHIVE Larry Martin wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" Had a little trouble getting good pictures inside the fuselage, but I put the best one on my site at www.angelfire.com/un/ch701/electricflaps.html. Larry N1345L My Site www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Rick Orlando, FL http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:10 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OT: Financing for Flight Training --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com Hello Todd: This isn't quite the answer you're looking for, but let me suggest it anyway: I was laid off recently, but luckily, I was able to make some good decisions so this is not a time of true crisis. So, while looking for a new job, I decided to do something good for ME - now that I have the time. I started Instrument instruction with the same thoughts of a long-term goal as you have. I took out a loan from my life insurance policy that will pay for all the Instrument work and possibly the Commercial also. When I pay it back, I pay MYSELF back. The interest rate is very low. I have no dependents that NEED the $$$ in case of the unexpected, and there is enough for final expenses etc. I cannot say this will work for you, but it works for me. Thanks for all your contributions; I have learned much through this list and your posts. Regards, Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl tail 85% do not archive In a message dated 3/5/2005 2:35:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, todd@toddtown.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: todd@toddtown.com Hey guys. I realize this is off topic, so please forgive me. I am a private pilot with about 200 hours, most of it 15 or more years ago. Seriously thinking about getting instrument, commercial and CFI so I can teach a little on the side for fun, maybe a retirement career later on. Since I have started and stopped my flight training more times than I can think about because money dried up, I am considering getting a loan (12-15k) to complete my training. Anyone know a financial institution that provides loans for flight training? Signature/Collateral-less loans are pretty high interest rates, I am looking for something more catered to student type loans. Thanks. Todd do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:16 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: microswitch, update --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com Discontinued microswitch? Have you tried an electrical surplus dealer? There are quite a few on them listed in a Yahoo search for surplus electrical supplies, some of which specialize in switches. I was once looking for an out-of-production IC for a piece of industrial equipment and when I called _http://www.mouser.com/_ (http://www.mouser.com/) they put me in touch with a surplus place in Florida, but I cannot remember exactly who they are. i think they were in Jacksonville. I virtually stole thier remaining stock!! I'm really sorry I cannot remember the name of the place... Regards, Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl tail 85% do not archive In a message dated 3/4/2005 10:07:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, zsmith3rd@earthlink.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Subject: microswitch Have you looked at www.digikey.com Lots of "OMRON" and "Cherry" brand stuff in Section G of the printed catalog. Didn't look at web site, but catalog shows dimensions of product After actually looking at the Digi-Key site, its Section H, not G. And if it is "snap switches", they start at page 64 or so on the PDF download section. I've purchased from this site several times, never a problem. regards again zed/701/r912/etc etc do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:09 AM PST US From: "Stephen R. Look" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OT: Financing for Flight Training --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" I'm using Pilot Finance. http://www.pilotfinance.com They have been great to work with and it makes this adventure quite affordable. Steve do not archive Steve Look Monticello, IL 601XL - rudder "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: bad parts I got from> "professionals" From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > Sometimes because of my own > mistakes and sometimes because of bad parts I got from > "professionals". One of my biggest setbacks and learning experiences in building my aircraft was NOT to take anything for granted just because it was being supplied by a "professional"... Most of my biggest headaches were due to parts supplied by "professional" shops, etc.. Various errors in the diagrams and parts from Zenair Fuel gauge didn't work canopy cover didn't fit engine supplied with inadequate accessories - air inlet box failure; carb heat system failure; alternator drive failure; ignition system failure; ... IN ALL CASES the manufacturers were very service-oriented and helpful in regulating the problems. But it was more than frustrating that such poor quality control was in place to begin with! I lost a lot of time and enthusiasm for my project due to these setbacks! (Not to mention the dangers involved! - thankfully no emergency landings off-airport.) The words 'buyer beware' apply in aviation - NO MATTER who the manufacturer is. Be careful out there! -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:43 AM PST US From: "Joe Kerr" Subject: Zenith-List: Tail kit size & weight? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Kerr" Does anyone remember the approximate size and weight of the tail kit for the 601XL? Will it fit in my mini-van with seats removed? Will I need to rent a truck and how many friends do I need to find who can help on Thursday when this thing arrives at the freight company? Thanks-Joe Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:36 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tail kit size & weight? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com Can your minivan handle a piece of aluminum skin approx. 18"w x 6"h x 7 FEET long ? The horizontal stabilizer skin is the largest piece...weight is not an issue. The elevator skin is only 12"wide with the other dimensions being close to the same. Bring a bunch of copy paper boxes to put all the small parts in. Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl tail 85% do not archive In a message dated 3/5/2005 10:22:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, kerrjf@charter.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Kerr" Does anyone remember the approximate size and weight of the tail kit for the 601XL? Will it fit in my mini-van with seats removed? Will I need to rent a truck and how many friends do I need to find who can help on Thursday when this thing arrives at the freight company? Thanks-Joe Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:46 AM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: bad parts I got from> "professionals" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Thanks Grant I have never heard a better reason for scratch building then your endorsement below. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751 President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com do not archive - I'm just stirring the pot again!!! -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grant Corriveau Subject: Zenith-List: bad parts I got from> "professionals" --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > Sometimes because of my own > mistakes and sometimes because of bad parts I got from > "professionals". One of my biggest setbacks and learning experiences in building my aircraft was NOT to take anything for granted just because it was being supplied by a "professional"... Most of my biggest headaches were due to parts supplied by "professional" shops, etc.. Various errors in the diagrams and parts from Zenair Fuel gauge didn't work canopy cover didn't fit engine supplied with inadequate accessories - air inlet box failure; carb heat system failure; alternator drive failure; ignition system failure; ... IN ALL CASES the manufacturers were very service-oriented and helpful in regulating the problems. But it was more than frustrating that such poor quality control was in place to begin with! I lost a lot of time and enthusiasm for my project due to these setbacks! (Not to mention the dangers involved! - thankfully no emergency landings off-airport.) The words 'buyer beware' apply in aviation - NO MATTER who the manufacturer is. Be careful out there! -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:34 AM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tail kit size & weight? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" Joe- The tail kit will fit fine in a mini-van. I hauled mine home in a chevy blaizer. They will not pack it into a box but leave the pieces individually wrapped so you can put the smaller stuff anywhere. Al Young N601AY- Ready for paint ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:25 AM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tail kit size & weight? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" Joe - Sorry, I just read the rest of your message and didn't see you mention the "freight company". Thought you were picking up the kit in Mexico, MO. My apologies- al Young Do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:17 AM PST US From: Sigmo@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Microswitch --> Zenith-List message posted by: Sigmo@aol.com I tried several suppliers including that one and mouser. The mouser people even researched it for me. The problem with the CAP flap motor is that the mounting blocks are designed around the V3L-3 switch and require screw on terminals due to the room allowed. I can re-design the mounting blocks and make it work but have concerns about CAP backing up the unit if I do so. Thank you all,I appreciate the reply Mike Sigman 601XL DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:54 AM PST US From: "kevinbonds" "Damian and Lydia Monyoya" , , Subject: Zenith-List: Got my engine! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Hello all I am happy to say I got my engine this morning. It's a 110 out of a late model Corvair (65-69). The engine code is an RH. It turns over smoothly. Should be a great core to start my rebuild. I'm not to far along on my airframe construction though so I will be storing it for some time. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN Zodiac 601XL, Corvair powered. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:48 AM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: Zenith-List: off topic: racism --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" I have to comment on the recent exchange. Speaking to those in the US it is in our best interest when people from other cultures participate in the same sort of things we do. We should welcome them and appreciate what they bring to the table. This is not just political correctness there is a shrewd reason for doing so. Just as when people come to this country from others and get assistance with education in American schools we get something very important in return. These people are being educated in Western culture and many become sympathetic to Western ways of living. Some probably go home more western than not. The importance of this can not be understated. Likewise when someone from another country comes in contact with us in this forum, we should not only respect them as human beings but should realize that it is ignorant and counterproductive to flame them. We need people with vested interest in our society to help offset the anti-Americanism that is so prevalent today. I hope that others around the world know that most of us here in the US are good people and more importantly realize the same about them. We don't all think we are better than everyone else (this is a common misconception about Americans). To the guy in China keep fighting the uphill battle. I for one would love to here you are flying one day. Kevin Bonds Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: about Sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Most of you in USA don't realize, the heroic work some pilots (me included) have to go though in over regulated countries of the world (aviation ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:24 PM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: about Sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" I don't post much on this list, but I read it daily (sometimes several times in order to understand what has been said). I live in the South (Alabama). We face the same discrimination as the folks in Japan, Taiwan, India, China, Vietnam, France (?) etc.... It is in part based on ignorance and fear. Don't sweat the occasional comment by folks who don't know any better. Alas, I once was as they are now, but found a better way. There are folks on this list who will come to your defense. :-) Tommy Walker In Alabama ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:53 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OT: Financing for Flight Training From: todd@toddtown.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: todd@toddtown.com Thanks a ton, I will check them out. Todd > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" > > I'm using Pilot Finance. http://www.pilotfinance.com > They have been great to work with and it makes this adventure quite > affordable. > > Steve > > do not archive > > > Steve Look > Monticello, IL > 601XL - rudder > "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:27:25 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: about Sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Tommy, I for one don't think you are eithere ignorant or fearful, but you should add Do not archive when these oblique discussions need airing :-). Larry McFarland Do not archive Subject: Re: Zenith-List: about Sale > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" > > I don't post much on this list, but I read it daily (sometimes several > times > in order to understand what has been said). I live in the South > (Alabama). > We face the same discrimination as the folks in Japan, Taiwan, India, > China, > Vietnam, France (?) etc.... > > It is in part based on ignorance and fear. > > Don't sweat the occasional comment by folks who don't know any better. > Alas, I once was as they are now, but found a better way. > > There are folks on this list who will come to your defense. > > :-) > > > Tommy Walker In Alabama ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:52 PM PST US From: Gsrth@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Unfortunate comments. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gsrth@aol.com etn industries, I came back from a 3 week trip to China last month, and I want to say that I have never traveled anywhere in the US or other countries of the world where the people I met were more hospitable or friendly. Everyone I met went well out of their way to help a visitor stumbling through the language and frequently lost as well. It is with great sadness that I find others in the world not as gracious with those of another nationality. Let me offer my apologies and say that I am sure the majority on the list feel the same way. In fact, I'm sure we would all be fascinated to hear more of your building experiences and the problems you face over and beyond those we all have building our own airplane. Hang in there with us and keep building that Zenith! ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:11 PM PST US From: Gsrth@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Comments --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gsrth@aol.com etn industries I believe I forgot to add my name to my previous message. Garth Dawson Wilmington Delaware, USA rudder finished, ribs all formed for wings and stabilizer. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:07 PM PST US From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair Engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" Just like Kevin I had a great day as well, after helping Kevin find and load his engine I also bought an engine from Albert. Unlike the unpleasant experience Kevin had last week, Albert was very interested in our projects, he ask us to show him our planes when we finish. I told him I will do better than that, I will pick him up at a local airport and take him flying. More to the point for you Corvair builders, he has several good crankshafts and heads along with a lot of other corvair parts. He also tried to sell us a beautiful "66" Corvair for $6950.00, I had to pass because I need to stick to one toy at a time. Fortunately their are a lot more good people like Albert than there are Jerks and bigots, I have never been snubbed by another builder regardless of where he is from or what economic bracket he is in. That's the way it should be! Regards: Clyde Barcus 601 XL--- Soon to be Corvair Powered. Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:12 PM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Zenith-List: First engine run --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page The weather was nice and warm today so I took advantage of it and did a first engine run. The R912 80HP runs pretty nice. Very smooth @ 2000RPM but a little choppy @ 3000 (I didn't venture past this, see the next paragraph). My prop is not 100% setup however. I'm running a 3-blade 68" Warp Drive with tapered tips. I currently have it set @ 15. Anyone know what the proper pitch is for my setup? Oil pressure was all over the place. At one point I had a steady 15PSI @ idle, other times it was reading 10 all the way down to 3 or 4. I don't feel good about that. Since I didn't have a lot of time to troubleshoot I'll have to figure this out. It's probably a bad wire or worse, a bad pressure sensor (I have an EIS for monitoring). I checked the oil levels and they seem fine. I have a Lockwood thermostat in-line but its well primed. Temps were right on all over. Just that pressure thing which is critical. Anyhow, its was nice to hear the purr ;) Just have to fit the wings now and I'm done other than paint. Trevor Page 601HD 99% complete ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:21 PM PST US From: "Johann G." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First engine run --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." Hello Trevor. I am glad for you. I will do the engine run up very soon. I did a total teardown of the Rotax 912 UL engine, and this will require me to do a venting of the lubrication system. This is required if the engine was drained of all oil. Also if the prop has been spun in reverse direction allowing air to be injected into the valve train. Look up Service instruction SI-04-1997 R3 for this instruction. If you do not do this procedure before first start up, you could ruin your new engine. Hope this helps Johann G. Iceland. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Page" Subject: Zenith-List: First engine run > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page > > The weather was nice and warm today so I took advantage of it and did a > first engine run. > > The R912 80HP runs pretty nice. Very smooth @ 2000RPM but a little > choppy @ 3000 (I didn't venture past this, see the next paragraph). My > prop is not 100% setup however. I'm running a 3-blade 68" Warp Drive > with tapered tips. I currently have it set @ 15. Anyone know what the > proper pitch is for my setup? > > Oil pressure was all over the place. At one point I had a steady 15PSI > @ idle, other times it was reading 10 all the way down to 3 or 4. I > don't feel good about that. Since I didn't have a lot of time to > troubleshoot I'll have to figure this out. It's probably a bad wire or > worse, a bad pressure sensor (I have an EIS for monitoring). I checked > the oil levels and they seem fine. I have a Lockwood thermostat in-line > but its well primed. Temps were right on all over. Just that pressure > thing which is critical. > > Anyhow, its was nice to hear the purr ;) > > Just have to fit the wings now and I'm done other than paint. > > Trevor Page > 601HD 99% complete > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:27 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tail kit size & weight? --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com Joe I'm not sure about the 601, but when I received my 701 tail kit, it was in a 4'x8'x2' high crate. It als had an 801 rudder that I had built in the factory. It weighed less than 200 pounds and had 3 large garbage bags of paper stuffed in it to keep things from moving. I just received the rest of the kit yesterday it was much bigger and had alot more paper. Bob Spudis CH-701 tail kit done ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:26 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Weight & Balance w/repect to Battery Placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: I am building a 601XL powered by the Corvair Engine. I have been looking on the lists and web for some real data that would help me with the battery placement. So far I have only heard statements without data that I could use for calculations (such as Weights and ARMs for the wheels, engine choice and gear configuration) When I weigh my project as it stands and make adjustments for the expected weights of the items yet to go into the project, I am not convinced that the proverbial wisdom of placing the batteries behind the seats is going to be best. MY -- (What if Calculations) on moving 30 lbs of batteries from the firewall to behind the seats can only make a difference of 2.8 to 3.2 % of the MAC which must fall between 20% MAC to 30% MAC to be within the accepted CG. In other words an aircraft that has a CG at 24% MAC with the batteries on the firewall would have a CG of about 27% MAC if they were moved to behind the seats. If the expected pilots are likely to be heavy duty types then their weight will off set the weight of forward placement. On the other hand a 130 lb pilot flying alone would need to carry about 40 lbs of baggage to keep the flight behind the forward CG limit. They would find it easier to stay within the limits if the batteries are in the rear. At either location I can find extremes that cause both placements to fall out of the CG range. But for aircraft loaded near gross the front placement looks best. The wiring is less expensive, better looking, easier to do with firewall placement. I am interested to hear from people that have hard numbers from completed projects. It could save a lot of time if I am overlooking something. Gary ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:58 PM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Weight & Balance w/repect to Battery Placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne You should ask William Wynne for his numbers. Two problems: he no longer frequents this list so you will have to e-mail him directly. And second: his XL is a tail-dragger. -- Craig davgray@sbcglobal.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > I am building a 601XL powered by the Corvair Engine. I have been looking on the lists and web for some real data that would help me with the battery placement. > So far I have only heard statements without data that I could use for calculations (such as Weights and ARMs for the wheels, engine choice and gear configuration) > > When I weigh my project as it stands and make adjustments for the expected weights of the items yet to go into the project, I am not convinced that the proverbial wisdom of placing the batteries behind the seats is going to be best. > > MY -- (What if Calculations) on moving 30 lbs of batteries from the firewall to behind the seats can only make a difference of 2.8 to 3.2 % of the MAC which must fall between 20% MAC to 30% MAC to be within the accepted CG. In other words an aircraft that has a CG at 24% MAC with the batteries on the firewall would have a CG of about 27% MAC if they were moved to behind the seats. If the expected pilots are likely to be heavy duty types then their weight will off set the weight of forward placement. On the other hand a 130 lb pilot flying alone would need to carry about 40 lbs of baggage to keep the flight behind the forward CG limit. They would find it easier to stay within the limits if the batteries are in the rear. At either location I can find extremes that cause both placements to fall out of the CG range. But for aircraft loaded near gross the front placement looks best. > > The wiring is less expensive, better looking, easier to do with firewall placement. > > I am interested to hear from people that have hard numbers from completed projects. It could save a lot of time if I am overlooking something. > > > Gary > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:52 PM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Weight & Balance w/repect to Battery Placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" Your problem with gettin actual numbers is that there are only 2 flying 601's with Corvair powerplants that I know of. William's XL taildragger and my HD. My engine install is different than William's because I was installing my engine at the same time as William and had little to go on. I'll send you a copy of my Excel spreadsheet if you want. You can punch numbers in it and see that it's hard for me to exceed forward or aft CG. Why do you have 30 lbs of battery? I picked up an Odyssey sealed deep cycle battery that weighs something like 13 lbs. It sets on a shelf that I made that is located just above the rudder pedals. Randy Stout n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 3/5/05 7:20:46 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Weight & Balance w/repect to Battery Placement > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > I am building a 601XL powered by the Corvair Engine. I have been looking on the lists and web for some real data that would help me with the battery placement. > So far I have only heard statements without data that I could use for calculations (such as Weights and ARMs for the wheels, engine choice and gear configuration) > > When I weigh my project as it stands and make adjustments for the expected weights of the items yet to go into the project, I am not convinced that the proverbial wisdom of placing the batteries behind the seats is going to be best. > > MY -- (What if Calculations) on moving 30 lbs of batteries from the firewall to behind the seats can only make a difference of 2.8 to 3.2 % of the MAC which must fall between 20% MAC to 30% MAC to be within the accepted CG. In other words an aircraft that has a CG at 24% MAC with the batteries on the firewall would have a CG of about 27% MAC if they were moved to behind the seats. If the expected pilots are likely to be heavy duty types then their weight will off set the weight of forward placement. On the other hand a 130 lb pilot flying alone would need to carry about 40 lbs of baggage to keep the flight behind the forward CG limit. They would find it easier to stay within the limits if the batteries are in the rear. At either location I can find extremes that cause both placements to fall out of the CG range. But for aircraft loaded near gross the front placement looks best. > > The wiring is less expensive, better looking, easier to do with firewall placement. > > I am interested to hear from people that have hard numbers from completed projects. It could save a lot of time if I am overlooking something. > > > Gary > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:28 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Weight & Balance w/repect to Battery Placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: Randy, I would like to see your W&B Excel sheet. My current thought is to use two Odyssey 17 Ah batteries with two separate battery buses and a yearly swap of the oldest or failed capacity test of a battery. Either battery could supply the E-Bus in an alternator out situation and each Battery Bus would be responsible for supplying an ignition system & fuel pump. Both batteries are on line during normal operating conditions. If one battery is used then the weight can affect the CG by only 1.4 to 1.6 percent of MAC when being moved between firewall and the rear of seat location. I expect the normal loading to dominate the balance calculations. I plan on OV protection and LV warning. As per Bob Nuckolls AeroElectric drawings. Also, I need final placement of the items used in William Wynne's firewall forward systems so that I don't place a battery in the way of other required systems. Gary Ray ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:20 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First engine run (oil pressure sender failure?) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Trevor, Congrats for your engine running. I want to tell you that here in our Club there are more than 10 airplanes with R 912 installed, There have been 3 failures of the oil pressure sender at diferent time. 1 engine was new (in his 3rd flight) so the sender can fail any time, the other two with more than 150 hours. No big deal, just need to change the sender, Our Rotax Guru also makes a fisical check of the oil pressure with a mechanical gauge, just to be sure that the problem is with the sender, not with the engine. Buy the way, 2 engines had the EIS system installed (diferent hours in each), one the new plane and the other one 250 hours), there are other 4 planes with EIS with no problem yet, so having or not the EIS is not a reason, has to be the control quailty in the sender... There are only two "parts" of the 912 engines that give problems ocassionaly: The oil pressure sender and the mufflers that crack. For everything else the 912 are bullet proof engines. Any first hand oil pressure senders failures in the list? Is an inexpensive part very scary when you "loose" your oil engine pressure. Was a nightmare to the first pilot that happened in the Club. He managed to land the plane in a small place with no damage, but we got to trailer the plane back, a 2 day adventure. The other two, also happened in flight, One was fly testing over the Club and landed clean. The other one waited to land in an easy place, the mechanic flew there with a new sender and his gauge, find no problem, change the sender on the spot and both planes flew back to the Club. Saludos Gary Gower. Do not archive Trevor Page wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page The weather was nice and warm today so I took advantage of it and did a first engine run. The R912 80HP runs pretty nice. Very smooth @ 2000RPM but a little choppy @ 3000 (I didn't venture past this, see the next paragraph). My prop is not 100% setup however. I'm running a 3-blade 68" Warp Drive with tapered tips. I currently have it set @ 15. Anyone know what the proper pitch is for my setup? Oil pressure was all over the place. At one point I had a steady 15PSI @ idle, other times it was reading 10 all the way down to 3 or 4. I don't feel good about that. Since I didn't have a lot of time to troubleshoot I'll have to figure this out. It's probably a bad wire or worse, a bad pressure sensor (I have an EIS for monitoring). I checked the oil levels and they seem fine. I have a Lockwood thermostat in-line but its well primed. Temps were right on all over. Just that pressure thing which is critical. Anyhow, its was nice to hear the purr ;) Just have to fit the wings now and I'm done other than paint. Trevor Page 601HD 99% complete