Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:58 AM - Re: 701 Wing Tips (Rick)
2. 03:42 AM - Re: Re; Battery questions (Michel Therrien)
3. 03:51 AM - Battery questions (Grant Corriveau)
4. 04:14 AM - Re: Avex Rivets (Hunt Malcolm)
5. 04:45 AM - Re: Battery questions (Michel Therrien)
6. 06:11 AM - Re: Flaperon control rods on 701 (mike.sinclair@att.net)
7. 06:52 AM - Wanted CH 701 - in the New England area - Flying or 99% built & no motor is ok (Clifford Dow)
8. 08:02 AM - Re: Re; Battery questions (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 08:28 AM - Re: Side step in taildragger (Bruce Bockius)
10. 08:32 AM - Re: Battery questions (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
11. 08:59 AM - Re: Battery questions (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
12. 09:25 AM - Re: Battery questions (Michel Therrien)
13. 09:27 AM - Re: Battery questions (Michel Therrien)
14. 09:30 AM - Finishing my 801, windshield and exhaust questions (Agstore)
15. 09:52 AM - Re: Battery questions (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
16. 10:04 AM - Re: Battery questions (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
17. 10:18 AM - Re: Battery questions (Bryan Martin)
18. 10:30 AM - Re: Re: Best engine/prop for 701? (ALEMBIC7@aol.com)
19. 10:36 AM - Re: Battery questions (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
20. 10:53 AM - Re: Wanted CH 701 - in the New England area - Flying or 99% built & no motor is ok (Jim Pellien)
21. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: Best engine/prop for 701? (Mark Townsend)
22. 11:04 AM - Re: Battery questions (Michel Therrien)
23. 11:31 AM - L above elevator cable on horizontal stab. (Johann G.)
24. 11:32 AM - Re: Battery questions (Bryan Martin)
25. 11:37 AM - Re: Battery questions (Bryan Martin)
26. 12:01 PM - Re: Finishing my 801, windshield and exhaust questions (n801bh@netzero.com)
27. 12:28 PM - Re: Battery questions (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
28. 12:51 PM - Hard IFR in a 601 (Gig Giacona)
29. 12:56 PM - Torque Question (Tommy Walker)
30. 01:01 PM - Re: Battery questions (Craig Payne)
31. 01:09 PM - Re: Hard IFR in a 601 (Clifford Dow)
32. 01:14 PM - Re: Hard IFR in a 601 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
33. 01:33 PM - Re: Hard IFR in a 601 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
34. 01:34 PM - Zenith bolt torque (Howard Carter)
35. 01:35 PM - Re: Torque Question / AN bolts (Carlos Sa)
36. 01:35 PM - Re: Torque Question (cgalley)
37. 01:39 PM - Re: Torque Question (George Swinford)
38. 01:48 PM - Re: Torque Question (sportypilot@stx.rr.com)
39. 02:07 PM - Re: Hard IFR in a 601 (n801bh@netzero.com)
40. 02:07 PM - Re: Hard IFR in a 601 (Gary Gower)
41. 02:20 PM - Re: Hard IFR in a 601 (Gary Gower)
42. 03:00 PM - Aileron push rods. (Johann G.)
43. 04:15 PM - Re: prepaint filler for open rivets (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
44. 04:27 PM - Re: Torque Question (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
45. 05:52 PM - Re: 701 Wing Tips (John Flavin)
46. 06:16 PM - Re: L above elevator cable on horizontal stab. (Tony & Peggy Pierce)
47. 08:48 PM - Re: Nose Wheel steering? (Tebenkof@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Wing Tips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick <n701rr@yahoo.com>
Thanks for all the replys.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Rick <n701rr@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick
Looking at the ZAC manual, it appears they want the wing tip skin to be formed
and rivet over, (on top of), the fiberglass tip. Is that OK or does the skin need
to go UNDER the fiberglass tip? I hate to have a skin edge facing forward.
Thoughts??
Low&slow,
Rick
Rick
Orlando, FL
http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html
---------------------------------
Rick
Orlando, FL. USA
http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html
---------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Re; Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
In fact Jim, since my plane is hangared, I have
absolutely no problem.
When it was outside, last november/december,
occasionally, I had to help it with a "booster pack".
The batteries are 12V-18AH mounted about below the
baggage compartment bulkhead and wired with 4AWG
cables.
The brand is "Power", made in China and purchased for
approx 60$CDN each. Yuasa NP18-2 is a little bit
better battery. But the Odyssey batteries seem to be
made specifically for starting... this is a good
consideration.
Michel
--- Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy
> <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
>
> At 04:55 AM 3/8/2005 -0800, you wrote:
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
> <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> > I'm thinking about replacing the two 18ah
> >batteries (that are not excellent for starting the
> >engine in cold weather, by the way) by one Odysey
> >battery:
>
>
> Michel could you tell us what the brand of batteries
> you are using that do not crank the engine over very
> well in cold weather.
> I will need some extra good cranking power because
> my
> starter drives the engine via the ring gear mounted
> to the
> top belt pulley which makes it a 2-1 ratio compared
> to stock.
>
>
> Jim Pollard
> Merlin Ont
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 3
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| Subject: | Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> PS: I still can be influenced about these
> modifications.... While I presented a logic here, I'm
> not yet sure I want to rely on a single electrical
> system for powering my electrically dependent
> aircraft.
Maybe Frank's system of using one much smaller battery soley to backup the
electronic ignition and one fuel pump?
Grant
Message 4
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FILETIME=[5E4E46D0:01C524A1]
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" <Malcolm.HUNT@networkrail.co.uk>
Mark
Thanks for your time and reply. One thing clear, with that number, need an air
gun to set the rivets.
Do not archive.
Malcolm
Petersfield, Hampshire, England
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cdngoose
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Avex Rivets
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
That number sounds close for the 601XL just switch it around, you need
twice as many A5's then the A4's. Much like Scott I have all the stems
saved but I will not be counting them till my plane if flying and it is
too cold to do anything else.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
MJBTOL@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Avex Rivets
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MJBTOL@aol.com
In a message dated 3/7/05 3:46:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Malcolm.HUNT@networkrail.co.uk writes:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" <
> Malcolm.HUNT@networkrail.co.uk>
>
> I'm sourcing materials for my plans built CH601XL. Can anyone advise
the
> number of 1/8" and 5/32" Avex rivets required as I keep loosing
count!?
>
> Malcolm Hunt
Hello Malcolm,
You will Need 5,110 A4 Rivets and 2,880 A5 Rivets. Note: This is
for the
601 HD and the 601 HDS. I am not positive about the XL. I am sure the
numbers
will be close though. (I got these numbers Fom Nick H. when I first
began
building) I hope this helps.
Best wishes, Mike
Your attention is drawn to the fact that this email originated from a source external
to Network Rail.
************************************************************************************************
The content of this email (and any attachment) is confidential. It may also be
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Liability cannot be accepted for statements made which are clearly the senders
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I know that several people have a similar
architecture. For instance, one of my friends here
use a 20 lbs primary battery with a 7 lbs secondary
battery. The secondary being recharged through a
diode. (my two batteries have a total weight of 26 lbs
and both are used to start the engine - and the nice
thing is that when the engine is warm, any of the two
is powerful enough to easilly start the engine)
At first glance, I thought that a battery would never
get properly charged with a diode due to the 0.6 V
voltage drop. However, thinking about it, my
alternator output is 14.5 V that would leave 13.9 V
for battery charging, which is not far from the ideal
charging voltage...
I would not use anything less than a 7ah battery as
the secondary (if I use a second battery at all). 7AH
is, most often, the 20 hour discharge capacity. For a
less than 1 hour discharge time, the battery capacity
is significanly impaired.
Still, if I would go that route, I still need a more
powerful battery for starting the engine.
Michel
do not archive
--- Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau
> <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
> > PS: I still can be influenced about these
> > modifications.... While I presented a logic here,
> I'm
> > not yet sure I want to rely on a single electrical
> > system for powering my electrically dependent
> > aircraft.
>
> Maybe Frank's system of using one much smaller
> battery soley to backup the
> electronic ignition and one fuel pump?
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Flaperon control rods on 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: mike.sinclair@att.net
Chuck
I had noticed the same pitch up on the wing at cruise and assumed that this was
the normal attitude for this design. I would be interested in hearing your results
if you do try lowering the the flaperon position. Would also like to hear
if anyone else on the list has "experimented" with this or know of someone that
has and what their results were. My big concern on this though would be how
much tendency the aircraft has to pitch nose down at slow speeds and what effect
the change would have on landing speeds and handling, i.e. ability to flare
at touchdown. I've noticed that flap use requires me to use power to get my
airplane into a three point attitude on my taildragger. Probably not noticable
on a normal no flap landing, but will require a little more finesse on short
field work.
Mike
-------------- Original message from "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>: --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich"
>
> Johann,
> When I did my rods, I looked at the amount of movement of the bellcranks,
> centered them (middle of their motion) and measured the rod length. I
> purposely cut them as long as possible and threaded them into the fittings
> as far as they would go. Then I could shorten them later if need be.
> (Clearly I couldn't make them longer.) They are still at the original
> length. As a note, I found more than once that the lengths on the plans
> were close but when I measured the exact distances there were differences.
> Which could be just small differences adding up as I built the airplane.
> I set the flaperons per the plans, but today when I was flying I noticed the
> wing to the horizon was a bit pitched up in cruise. This tells me that I
> may need to lower the flaperons to lower the wing angle of attack. I may
> try this later on and pass along what I find.
> Chuck D.
> N701TX
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Johann G."
> To: "Zenith listinn"
> Subject: Zenith-List: Flaperon control rods on 701
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G."
> >
> > Hello list members.
> >
> > I managed to cut the gear strut fitting and bend it to the correct angle,
> so that I could continue fitting the wings struts. It will have to be welded
> again after the wing fitting is complete.
> >
> > However, there is another problem installing the flaperon control rods.
> The drawings are incorrect in the rod lengths.
> > My 4th edition 06/2001 drawings indicate the rod length of 415 for the
> lower rods, and 365 for the upper.
> > These measurements do not match up with the fitting of my flaperons.
> > Can anyone building or flying Zenith 701 tell me what length rods they
> have on their setup?
> > According to my setup, the measurement between lower rods ends is 395 mm
> and the upper should be 425 mm.
> > Does this sound like your setup?
> >
> > Hope you can help.
> >
> > Best regards.
> > Johann G.
> > Iceland
> > Zenith 701
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
Chuck
I had noticed the same pitch up on the wing at cruise and assumed that this was
the normal attitude for this design. I would be interested in hearing your results
if you do try lowering the the flaperon position. Would also like to hear
if anyone else on the list has "experimented" with this or know of someone that
has and what their results were. My big concern on this though would be how
much tendency the aircraft has to pitch nose down at slow speeds and what effect
the change would have on landing speeds and handling, i.e. ability to flare
at touchdown. I've noticed that flap use requires me to use power to get my
airplane into a three point attitude on my taildragger. Probably not noticable
on a normal no flap landing, but will require a little more finesse on short
field work.
Mike
-------------- Original message from "Chuck Deiterich" cfd@thegateway.net: --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <CFD@THEGATEWAY.NET>
Johann,
When I did my rods, I looked at the amount of movement of the bellcranks,
centered them (middle of their motion) and measured the rod length. I
purposely cut them as long as possible and threaded them into the fittings
as far as they would go. Then I could shorten them later if need be.
(Clearly I couldn't make them longer.) They are still at the original
length. As a note, I found more than once that the lengths on the plans
were close but when I measured the exact distances there were differences.
Which could be just small differences adding up as I built the airplane.
I set the flaperons per th
e plans, but today when I was flying I noticed the
wing to the horizon was a bit pitched up in cruise. This tells me that I
may need to lower the flaperons to lower the wing angle of attack. I may
try this later on and pass along what I find.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johann G." <JOHANN@GI.IS>
To: "Zenith listinn" <ZENITH-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: Zenith-List: Flaperon control rods on 701
-- Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <JOHANN@GI.IS>
Hello list members.
I managed to cut the gear strut fitting and bend it to the correct angle,
so that I could continue fitting the wings struts. It will have to be welded
again after the wing fitting is complete.
However, there is another problem installing the flaperon control rods.
&g
t; The drawings are incorrect in the rod lengths.
My 4th edition 06/2001 drawings indicate the rod length of 415 for the
lower rods, and 365 for the upper.
These measurements do not match up with the fitting of my flaperons.
Can anyone building or flying Zenith 701 tell me what length rods they
have on their setup?
According to my setup, the measurement between lower rods ends is 395 mm
and the upper should be 425 mm.
Does this sound like your setup?
Hope you can help.
Best regards.
Johann G.
Iceland
Zenith 701
'll never see banner ads or any other
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 7
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| Subject: | Wanted CH 701 - in the New England area - Flying or 99% built |
& no motor is ok
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Clifford Dow <cdowjr@yahoo.com>
Hello
do any of you know of any finished and flying CH 701's east of the Mississippi
- preferably in the New England area - i'm in Maine.
I would consider one 99% finished and with no motor also but prefer a flying one.
I've asked before - i just wanted to check again in case someone has decided to
sell.
thanks
cliff
cdowjr@yahoo.com
207-329-9468 cell
DO NOT ARCHIVE
---------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re; Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Ahh..You have hit on the very subject I have been spending quite a bit
of time about...My new RV 7 will indeed be equipped for IFR.
Firstly total cost of ownership means to me that anything silid state is
preferable to anything mechanical. Solid state usually means much more
reliable too so a lot of the need for backup kinda goes away.
You could run two Dynons and many do but its real overkill. A much
better way is to have the redundancy built into an equally useful
instrument that is used primarily for something else (and maybe driven
from your secondary battery system).
The answer Is a Digitrack auto pilot...There you are hand flying in IFR,
your Dynon goes out, you hit the engage button and you plane will sit
there wings level for as long as you want.
As the A/p can be slaved off of pretty much any GPS (including
handhelds) you simply dial in your destination and it will take you
there.
Now in reality you will be using the GPS to drive the A/p anyway so if
the Dynon goes south it really is not a huge issue. The reality is a
light IFR A/c will not have total redundancy for a lot of its
instruments.
Having said all this an ASI and altimeter steam guage seem to be prudent
measures for backup and that is what most builders install.
Incidently, even for VFR work $1500 AP would be a wonderful addition to
a twitchy 601 on cross countries.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Crvsecretary@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re; Battery questions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Frank:
I agree with you completely except for one thing...
What do you do for backup - run TWO Dynon units ??
I sure would hate to be in hard IFR and have the unit quit...that's why
I was thinking AI, DG, and Altimeter as steam-gauge backups. Am I
approaching this all wrong? Yes, I know electric AI units are
available, but they are well over $2k as well !! That leaves an
electric DG ???
As always, thank you for your help and thoughts.
Regards,
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl tail 95%
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | RE: Side step in taildragger |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Bockius" <bruce@whiteantelopesoftware.com>
I never use mine, but my 5'3" wife does use hers.
-Bruce/601HD/TDO/447 hrs
*************
Bruce Bockius
Black Forest, CO, USA
http://www.WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com/zodiac
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Brandon Tucker
> Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 5:57 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [aviation] Zenith-List: Side step in taildragger
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
>
> Gents,
>
> For those who have a 601 series taildragger - Do
> you feel that the step is even needed? Do you use it?
> My plane sits so low, I can't imagine needing it.
>
> R/
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
>
>
> =========
> Matronics Forums.
> =========
> =========
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I ran two fuel pumps for over an hour from the 3AH battery ...then I got
bored waiting.
I could potentially disconnect the alt feed to the second batt to see
how long before the second igntion died just for a laugh.
But I think the small 3Ah batt is adequate.
Incidently I have never had difficulty in starting my soob with an 17AH
battery mounted behind the seats with a 6Ga starte cable.
Then again I have only started the thing below freezing a few times.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Therrien
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery questions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I know that several people have a similar architecture. For instance,
one of my friends here use a 20 lbs primary battery with a 7 lbs
secondary battery. The secondary being recharged through a diode. (my
two batteries have a total weight of 26 lbs and both are used to start
the engine - and the nice thing is that when the engine is warm, any of
the two is powerful enough to easilly start the engine)
At first glance, I thought that a battery would never get properly
charged with a diode due to the 0.6 V voltage drop. However, thinking
about it, my alternator output is 14.5 V that would leave 13.9 V for
battery charging, which is not far from the ideal charging voltage...
I would not use anything less than a 7ah battery as the secondary (if I
use a second battery at all). 7AH is, most often, the 20 hour discharge
capacity. For a less than 1 hour discharge time, the battery capacity
is significanly impaired.
Still, if I would go that route, I still need a more powerful battery
for starting the engine.
Michel
do not archive
--- Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau
> <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
> > PS: I still can be influenced about these modifications.... While I
> > presented a logic here,
> I'm
> > not yet sure I want to rely on a single electrical system for
> > powering my electrically dependent aircraft.
>
> Maybe Frank's system of using one much smaller battery soley to backup
> the electronic ignition and one fuel pump?
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Incidently...I stole this setup from Bruce Bockius....:)
Do not archive
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
Frank George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Battery questions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
--> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I ran two fuel pumps for over an hour from the 3AH battery ...then I got
bored waiting.
I could potentially disconnect the alt feed to the second batt to see
how long before the second igntion died just for a laugh.
But I think the small 3Ah batt is adequate.
Incidently I have never had difficulty in starting my soob with an 17AH
battery mounted behind the seats with a 6Ga starte cable.
Then again I have only started the thing below freezing a few times.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Therrien
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery questions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I know that several people have a similar architecture. For instance,
one of my friends here use a 20 lbs primary battery with a 7 lbs
secondary battery. The secondary being recharged through a diode. (my
two batteries have a total weight of 26 lbs and both are used to start
the engine - and the nice thing is that when the engine is warm, any of
the two is powerful enough to easilly start the engine)
At first glance, I thought that a battery would never get properly
charged with a diode due to the 0.6 V voltage drop. However, thinking
about it, my alternator output is 14.5 V that would leave 13.9 V for
battery charging, which is not far from the ideal charging voltage...
I would not use anything less than a 7ah battery as the secondary (if I
use a second battery at all). 7AH is, most often, the 20 hour discharge
capacity. For a less than 1 hour discharge time, the battery capacity
is significanly impaired.
Still, if I would go that route, I still need a more powerful battery
for starting the engine.
Michel
do not archive
--- Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau
> <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
> > PS: I still can be influenced about these modifications.... While I
> > presented a logic here,
> I'm
> > not yet sure I want to rely on a single electrical system for
> > powering my electrically dependent aircraft.
>
> Maybe Frank's system of using one much smaller battery soley to backup
> the electronic ignition and one fuel pump?
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
Message 12
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| Subject: | Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
oh! I missed something!... The purpose of the small
battery is not to fulfill the electrical needs of the
airplane, but to complement the alternator? How would
the primary battery fail in such a way that the
alternator does not produce the juice required to make
the plane work?
I thought I would need battery power in case of
alternatof failure... so, maybe I should go back to
basics... can you explain how you see the modes of
failure and how the architecture work?
Thanks!
Michel
do not archive
--- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank
> George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Incidently...I stole this setup from Bruce
> Bockius....:)
>
> Do not archive
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> --> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> I ran two fuel pumps for over an hour from the 3AH
> battery ...then I got
> bored waiting.
>
> I could potentially disconnect the alt feed to the
> second batt to see
> how long before the second igntion died just for a
> laugh.
>
> But I think the small 3Ah batt is adequate.
>
> Incidently I have never had difficulty in starting
> my soob with an 17AH
> battery mounted behind the seats with a 6Ga starte
> cable.
>
> Then again I have only started the thing below
> freezing a few times.
>
> Frank
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
FYI, I think fuel pumps draw less than 1A. The
ignition system I have draws between 5 and 6 amps.
Michel
do not archive
--- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > I ran two fuel
pumps for over an hour from the 3AH
> battery ...then I got
> bored waiting.
>
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 14
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| Subject: | Finishing my 801, windshield and exhaust questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Agstore" <jay@agstore.net>
I'm new to the list but I am nearing completion of my 801 project.
Wings, slats, flaps, rudder, elevator, and fuselage are complete. I
need to install the windows, engine, instruments and the wings to
complete. So I have a few questions for other 801 owners on how to
finish.
Next is windshield installation. The instructions call for caulking the
windshield around the skin above the firewall. I am not a big fan of
caulk and would rather see some sort of rubber weatherstripping. What
have you guys used? If you have a source and part number, I would
appreciate it.
I also would like opinions on exhaust systems. I will be installing a
O-360 A1A. I saw that Gary Liming used a Vetterman cross over exhaust
on his (thanks for the great website Gary! It has helped a lot). I
would love to see other web logs from 801 builders if you could direct
me to them.
Thanks,
Jay Herron
Salem, OH
Message 15
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| Subject: | Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Sure,
The small batt is simply to run essential loads to keep the engine
running for a short time when I say essential I mean a fuel pump and the
second igniton...nothing else...About an hour was my design intention.
The primary battery can fail in a number of ways. The two primary ways
are
1) An internal short in the primary battery
2) A massive short in a major part of the electrical system e.g the
battery cable grounds out.
In either case the massive current demand will probably cause a fire
(maybe not in the case of 1) but will certainly completely overload the
alternator and the battery voltage will drop close to zero...How close
depends on how much current is flowing.
So the failure modes (and note we havent even talked about the failure
of the alternator itself) are either a reduction in primary battery
voltage (hopefully one would actually notice this) or a fire.
The emergency procedure for a fire are to isolate the battery via the
contactor and hope the fusable link will cut off the alternator...it
should.
Then with a still fully charged second batt go find somewhere to land.
If the alternator fails and you have plenty of fuel in both tanks I
would shut off the second fuel pump and second ignition to save the
battery...then fly at full speed to an airport....Before landing turn on
both fuel pumps and second igntion as normal.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Therrien
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Battery questions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
oh! I missed something!... The purpose of the small battery is not to
fulfill the electrical needs of the airplane, but to complement the
alternator? How would the primary battery fail in such a way that the
alternator does not produce the juice required to make the plane work?
I thought I would need battery power in case of alternatof failure...
so, maybe I should go back to basics... can you explain how you see the
modes of failure and how the architecture work?
Thanks!
Michel
do not archive
--- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank
> George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Incidently...I stole this setup from Bruce
> Bockius....:)
>
> Do not archive
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> --> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> I ran two fuel pumps for over an hour from the 3AH battery ...then I
> got bored waiting.
>
> I could potentially disconnect the alt feed to the second batt to see
> how long before the second igntion died just for a laugh.
>
> But I think the small 3Ah batt is adequate.
>
> Incidently I have never had difficulty in starting my soob with an
> 17AH battery mounted behind the seats with a 6Ga starte cable.
>
> Then again I have only started the thing below freezing a few times.
>
> Frank
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
Message 16
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| Subject: | Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
How did you measure that out of interest?...The worse case would be with
out the engine runnign but remember the ignition switches on and off so
it maybe the running current is less...Of course I'm guessing here.
I might have to go re measure mine...or turn off battery feed in flight
to test the ability of the 3Ah batt to keep running.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Therrien
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Battery questions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
FYI, I think fuel pumps draw less than 1A. The ignition system I have
draws between 5 and 6 amps.
Michel
do not archive
--- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > I ran two fuel pumps for over an
hour from the 3AH
> battery ...then I got
> bored waiting.
>
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I have an Odyssey PD680 dry cell mounted behind the passenger seat. The only
time I've had trouble starting the engine is a couple of times when the
temperature was down near 0 F. The batter would crank the engine fine foe
several attempt but it would not start. When I hooked up a jumper cable to
the truck, the plane would start immediately. I think what was happening is
that the voltage the ignition module was seeing was too low to activate the
circuit. I think that if I had a small battery hooked to the ignition
circuit and isolated from the main battery putting 12V on the ignition
circuit no matter what the main bus voltage was, there would have been no
trouble starting the engine. Also this setup would provide an automatic
backup in case the main system failed.
My thought is to put a power diode between each battery and the ignition
circuit so that whichever battery had the highest voltage would immediately
take over the load. That way the engine wouldn't even stumble during the
switch-over. This is important because I suspect that my Subaru-redrive
combination would immediately stop turning if the engine quit in flight and,
without enough current to crank the starter, there'd be no way to restart
it. This is not usually a problem with direct drive engines since they
usually windmill in flight after an engine failure. I don't think any
airspeed would cause the Subaru to windmill due to the reduction ratio. I
wonder how much reserve power an 8-pack of D cells would give me running one
ignition module and one fuel pump.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Best engine/prop for 701? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ALEMBIC7@aol.com
Isn't the Subaru too heavy for the 701?
AZ Lurker
ruddershop complete
Message 19
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| Subject: | Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Not true Bryan, the subaru will windmill very effectively...At least
mine did. I don't think it would be easy to stop it wndmilling.
The other point is it looks like you are relying on a single ignition
system??...Too risky for me. I like to have two systems...from two
batteries with a diode in between. This then gives you a full 12V to
start on the second system automatically.
...if you are relying on the standard subaru ignition (which the Stratus
has) they are notoriously feeble...If your coil primary resistance goes
low (like mine did) it will fry the chip.....then your ignition dies.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan
Martin
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery questions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
--> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I have an Odyssey PD680 dry cell mounted behind the passenger seat. The
only time I've had trouble starting the engine is a couple of times when
the temperature was down near 0 F. The batter would crank the engine
fine foe several attempt but it would not start. When I hooked up a
jumper cable to the truck, the plane would start immediately. I think
what was happening is that the voltage the ignition module was seeing
was too low to activate the circuit. I think that if I had a small
battery hooked to the ignition circuit and isolated from the main
battery putting 12V on the ignition circuit no matter what the main bus
voltage was, there would have been no trouble starting the engine. Also
this setup would provide an automatic backup in case the main system
failed.
My thought is to put a power diode between each battery and the ignition
circuit so that whichever battery had the highest voltage would
immediately take over the load. That way the engine wouldn't even
stumble during the switch-over. This is important because I suspect that
my Subaru-redrive combination would immediately stop turning if the
engine quit in flight and, without enough current to crank the starter,
there'd be no way to restart it. This is not usually a problem with
direct drive engines since they usually windmill in flight after an
engine failure. I don't think any airspeed would cause the Subaru to
windmill due to the reduction ratio. I wonder how much reserve power an
8-pack of D cells would give me running one ignition module and one fuel
pump.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Wanted CH 701 - in the New England area - Flying or 99% |
built & no motor is ok
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
Cliff,
You may want to look at the following website:
www.barnstormers.com
to see if there are any 701 Experimental Amateur-builts for sale.
If you can wait 6-9 months, we (SportsPlanes.Com) will probably start to market/distribute
a
slightly redesigned version of the 701 that will be certified as an ELSA and/or
as an SLSA.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic SportsPlanes.com (MASPL)
703-313-4818
www.Pellien.com/MASPL.htm
www.sportsplanes.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Clifford Dow
Subject: Zenith-List: Wanted CH 701 - in the New England area - Flying or 99% built
& no motor is ok
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Clifford Dow <cdowjr@yahoo.com>
Hello
do any of you know of any finished and flying CH 701's east of the Mississippi
- preferably in the
New England area - i'm in Maine.
I would consider one 99% finished and with no motor also but prefer a flying one.
I've asked before - i just wanted to check again in case someone has decided to
sell.
thanks
cliff
cdowjr@yahoo.com
207-329-9468 cell
DO NOT ARCHIVE
---------------------------------
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Best engine/prop for 701? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Townsend" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Not the EA81 or even the EA-82 would be OK but we have a member on this list
installing an EJ 2.5 in his 701. Can't wait to see his numbers when he is up
and flying. One thing to keep in mind is that the 701 was never designed
with top end performance in mind, it is essentially a Stol aircraft which
performs that function very well and can be flown quite nicely on a 582. But
in a headwind it could be conceivable to travel backwards. Even with the
higher HP motors installed you may still be passed by cars below you. But
for flat out fun and short fields the 701 is a top performer! If you need a
faster rig look at the 601 or wait for the CH152.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: <ALEMBIC7@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Best engine/prop for 701?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ALEMBIC7@aol.com
>
> Isn't the Subaru too heavy for the 701?
>
> AZ Lurker
> ruddershop complete
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I did not.... for the ignition, Paul Messinger did
that on a test bench (which is Sun machine).
do not archive
--- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > How did you
measure that out of interest?...The
> worse case would be with
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | L above elevator cable on horizontal stab. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann@gi.is>
Hello list members.
I do appreciate all the help with the aileron/flaperon rods.
Can anyone tell me the reason for the "L" on the horizontal stabilizer above the
elevator cable, where it enters the stabilizer?
I do not see any use for it except maybe just to add strength to the leading edge
of the stab, where the hole is made for the cable.
BTW, my upper elevator cable is hitting the lower end of this hole at the right
low point of the cut out hole, even thought I install the plastic on the forward
"L" on top of the stab.
I will get you the measurement for the rods later tonight.
Best wishes,
Johann G.
Iceland.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I have the second optional stratus ignition system installed. As far as the
original Nippon-Denso ignition module goes, it was dead the first time I
tried to start the engine. I had to start it on the second system.
I checked every local parts store for a replacement module with no luck.
Then I checked the local junkyards and finally found one that was close. I
adapted that one to fit and used it for a while for ground testing. I
finally found a mail order place that had a replacement module that fit
right in my distributer. I bought a Beck-Arnley PN 1800258 from
partsamerica.com. Hopefully it's a little more robust than the original. So
far I haven't had any trouble with it.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Not true Bryan, the subaru will windmill very effectively...At least
> mine did. I don't think it would be easy to stop it wndmilling.
>
> The other point is it looks like you are relying on a single ignition
> system??...Too risky for me. I like to have two systems...from two
> batteries with a diode in between. This then gives you a full 12V to
> start on the second system automatically.
>
> ...if you are relying on the standard subaru ignition (which the Stratus
> has) they are notoriously feeble...If your coil primary resistance goes
> low (like mine did) it will fry the chip.....then your ignition dies.
>
> Frank
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
That's good to hear, thats one test I didn't try in my test flying. I do
know that the engine will stop turning if it quits on short final. At first,
my engine would quit If I pulled the throttle all the way out, I fixed that
problem right away.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Not true Bryan, the subaru will windmill very effectively...At least
> mine did. I don't think it would be easy to stop it wndmilling.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Finishing my 801, windshield and exhaust questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
Hi Jay. I agree the caulk way for all the sealing is not the best design. Several
of us 801 guys have used the channel molding that AS&S sells. Ya probably can
get some locally too. We also made some cowl strips to fasten at the windshield/top
skin joint. I made mine out or spare .025 stuff. It does take time to
fit them but is a much better seal and looks better too. Start with posterborard
and make some patterns. Be careful when ya trim your windshield too, take
a little at a time. If I remember correctly most of us had to remove about 1.25
inches off the bottom edge and cutting around to fit the cabin frame is a real
treat to.
Ben Haas N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
I'm new to the list but I am nearing completion of my 801 project.
Wings, slats, flaps, rudder, elevator, and fuselage are complete. I
need to install the windows, engine, instruments and the wings to
complete. So I have a few questions for other 801 owners on how to
finish.
Next is windshield installation. The instructions call for caulking the
windshield around the skin above the firewall. I am not a big fan of
caulk and would rather see some sort of rubber weatherstripping. What
have you guys used? If you have a source and part number, I would
appreciate it.
I also would like opinions on exhaust systems. I will be installing a
O-360 A1A. I saw that Gary Liming used a Vetterman cross over exhaust
on his (thanks for the great website Gary! It has helped a lot). I
would love to see other web logs from 801 builders if you could direct
me to them.
Thanks,
Jay Herron
Message 27
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| Subject: | Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
That's good (and NAPA will charge nearly $300 for the ND module). What I
did was to cut the pu coil off and now I drive two GM style ignition
modules which are bullet proof in comparison.
Oh did I tell you my Stratus backup module died as well?
So I built two GM ignitions into the same distributor...works like a
charm..a.s long as the distributor shaft keeps turning...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan
Martin
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery questions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
--> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I have the second optional stratus ignition system installed. As far as
the original Nippon-Denso ignition module goes, it was dead the first
time I tried to start the engine. I had to start it on the second
system.
I checked every local parts store for a replacement module with no luck.
Then I checked the local junkyards and finally found one that was close.
I adapted that one to fit and used it for a while for ground testing. I
finally found a mail order place that had a replacement module that fit
right in my distributer. I bought a Beck-Arnley PN 1800258 from
partsamerica.com. Hopefully it's a little more robust than the original.
So far I haven't had any trouble with it.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Hard IFR in a 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
While I intend to outfit and fly my 601XL with a Dynon (or maybe 2) for IFR
I don't intend to ever fly it in hard IFR. Now our definitions of hard IFR
may be different but while it is a hell of a little plane it was never meant
to fly in my definition of hard IFR.
I plan to back up the Dynon(s) with an altimeter and an ASI. Add to that the
Garmin 296 and good old fashion compass that will be in the aircraft I ought
to be able to get out of anything the 601XL ought to be in.
Gig G
www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Frank:
I agree with you completely except for one thing...
What do you do for backup - run TWO Dynon units ??
I sure would hate to be in hard IFR and have the unit quit...that's why I
was thinking AI, DG, and Altimeter as steam-gauge backups. Am I
approaching
this all wrong? Yes, I know electric AI units are available, but they are
well
over $2k as well !! That leaves an electric DG ???
As always, thank you for your help and thoughts.
Regards,
Tracy Smith
Message 29
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
This is probably the dumb question of the month, but here goes....
I'm looking for a little help in identifying bolts and nuts. I have the
document described below, but I'm too slow to understand some of what I'm
reading.
For instance, I'm told to use an AN3-4A Bolt in a certain instance. I think
I remember this designates the type bolt and also the length. Does it also
describe the number of threads per inch? I think that if I could identify
the bolt then I could use the "Acceptable Methods...." document to come up
with the torque. I don't want to over torque things, which would be easy to
do with this kit. It seems like most of the stuff will be in in/lbs, but
I'm sure some of the engine/gear bolts will be in ft/lbs.
I've been looking at the following document:
AC 43.13-1B ACCEPTABLE METHODS, TECHNIQUES, AND PRACTICES - AIRCRAFT
INSPECTION AND REPAIR
September 8, 1998
(With Change 1 Incorporated)
Many thanks!
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
The spec on the Facet's is 1.6 amps. I measured a 40108 at 1.4 amps
pumping nothing.
-- Craig
Michel Therrien wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> FYI, I think fuel pumps draw less than 1A. The
> ignition system I have draws between 5 and 6 amps.
>
> Michel
> do not archive
> --- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > I ran two fuel
> pumps for over an hour from the 3AH
>
>>battery ...then I got
>>bored waiting.
>>
>>
>
>
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Hard IFR in a 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Clifford Dow <cdowjr@yahoo.com>
Having built and flown an RV-7A with a Digitrak autopilot - I would never own an
airplane without one. If you get into IFR conditions - you will love having
one of these.
two Dynons will run you alot of money - and you may never use them. The auto pilot
you will use and you willl love it.
I never got my altitude hold to work - and found just the wing leveler was sufficient
- so you might consider buying only the single axis one - the wing leveler.
if you love to build and love to fix things - make it complicated - if you love
to fly and don't want things breaking down all the time -make it simple - that's
my strong advice for any builders.
my 2 cents for the day.
cliff
Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@cox.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona"
While I intend to outfit and fly my 601XL with a Dynon (or maybe 2) for IFR
I don't intend to ever fly it in hard IFR. Now our definitions of hard IFR
may be different but while it is a hell of a little plane it was never meant
to fly in my definition of hard IFR.
I plan to back up the Dynon(s) with an altimeter and an ASI. Add to that the
Garmin 296 and good old fashion compass that will be in the aircraft I ought
to be able to get out of anything the 601XL ought to be in.
Gig G
www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Frank:
I agree with you completely except for one thing...
What do you do for backup - run TWO Dynon units ??
I sure would hate to be in hard IFR and have the unit quit...that's why I
was thinking AI, DG, and Altimeter as steam-gauge backups. Am I
approaching
this all wrong? Yes, I know electric AI units are available, but they are
well
over $2k as well !! That leaves an electric DG ???
As always, thank you for your help and thoughts.
Regards,
Tracy Smith
---------------------------------
Message 32
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| Subject: | Hard IFR in a 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
There are a few 601's outfitted for IFR but I wouldn't fly one in IFR
conditions. To me its not worht it, I mean you really need a heated
pitot and a few grands worth of equipment. To me the 601 is way to
"twitchy" to consider IFR so you would never make use of the investment.
Just a thought
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona
Subject: Zenith-List: Hard IFR in a 601
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
While I intend to outfit and fly my 601XL with a Dynon (or maybe 2) for
IFR I don't intend to ever fly it in hard IFR. Now our definitions of
hard IFR may be different but while it is a hell of a little plane it
was never meant to fly in my definition of hard IFR.
I plan to back up the Dynon(s) with an altimeter and an ASI. Add to that
the Garmin 296 and good old fashion compass that will be in the aircraft
I ought to be able to get out of anything the 601XL ought to be in.
Gig G
www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Frank:
I agree with you completely except for one thing...
What do you do for backup - run TWO Dynon units ??
I sure would hate to be in hard IFR and have the unit quit...that's why
I was thinking AI, DG, and Altimeter as steam-gauge backups. Am I
approaching this all wrong? Yes, I know electric AI units are
available, but they are well
over $2k as well !! That leaves an electric DG ???
As always, thank you for your help and thoughts.
Regards,
Tracy Smith
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Hard IFR in a 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Amen!
So OUR advice for a VFR 601 is install the Digitrack, forget everything
else and enjoy flying it VFR.
I think that makes quite a few Cents from me...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clifford
Dow
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hard IFR in a 601
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Clifford Dow <cdowjr@yahoo.com>
Having built and flown an RV-7A with a Digitrak autopilot - I would
never own an airplane without one. If you get into IFR conditions - you
will love having one of these.
two Dynons will run you alot of money - and you may never use them. The
auto pilot you will use and you willl love it.
I never got my altitude hold to work - and found just the wing leveler
was sufficient - so you might consider buying only the single axis one -
the wing leveler.
if you love to build and love to fix things - make it complicated - if
you love to fly and don't want things breaking down all the time -make
it simple - that's my strong advice for any builders.
my 2 cents for the day.
cliff
Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@cox.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona"
While I intend to outfit and fly my 601XL with a Dynon (or maybe 2) for
IFR I don't intend to ever fly it in hard IFR. Now our definitions of
hard IFR may be different but while it is a hell of a little plane it
was never meant to fly in my definition of hard IFR.
I plan to back up the Dynon(s) with an altimeter and an ASI. Add to that
the Garmin 296 and good old fashion compass that will be in the aircraft
I ought to be able to get out of anything the 601XL ought to be in.
Gig G
www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Frank:
I agree with you completely except for one thing...
What do you do for backup - run TWO Dynon units ??
I sure would hate to be in hard IFR and have the unit quit...that's why
I was thinking AI, DG, and Altimeter as steam-gauge backups. Am I
approaching this all wrong? Yes, I know electric AI units are available,
but they are well
over $2k as well !! That leaves an electric DG ???
As always, thank you for your help and thoughts.
Regards,
Tracy Smith
---------------------------------
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Zenith bolt torque |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Howard Carter <howado@cwia.com>
Tommy Walker,
contact Genuine Aircraft Parts in CA and ask them for a copy of their
Ref Book PB4, or you can get it from their website
www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com, their phone is 888-247-2738. The book
will answer all your questions about bolt specs, etc. They have a
warehouse in GA.
Howard Carter
do not archive
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Question / AN bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Tommy, maybe these sites will be of help:
http://www.sky-craft.co.uk/an_bolts.htm
http://www.challengers101.com/ANBolts.html
http://exp-aircraft.com/library/alexande/hardware.html
Also, the AS&S catalog shows how to decode it...
Or you can just "google" 'AN bolts"
Carlos
--- Tommy Walker <twalker@cableone.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>
> This is probably the dumb question of the month, but here goes....
>
> I'm looking for a little help in identifying bolts and nuts. I have the
> document described below, but I'm too slow to understand some of what I'm
> reading.
>
> For instance, I'm told to use an AN3-4A Bolt in a certain instance. I think
> I remember this designates the type bolt and also the length. Does it also
> describe the number of threads per inch? I think that if I could identify
> the bolt then I could use the "Acceptable Methods...." document to come up
> with the torque. I don't want to over torque things, which would be easy to
> do with this kit. It seems like most of the stuff will be in in/lbs, but
> I'm sure some of the engine/gear bolts will be in ft/lbs.
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: Torque Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
All AN3 bolts are #10-32 threads. The A tells us that it is an un-drilled
bolt. The 4 says that it has a grip length of 1/8" the distance under the
head should be 17/32"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Torque Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>
> This is probably the dumb question of the month, but here goes....
>
> I'm looking for a little help in identifying bolts and nuts. I have the
> document described below, but I'm too slow to understand some of what I'm
> reading.
>
> For instance, I'm told to use an AN3-4A Bolt in a certain instance. I
> think
> I remember this designates the type bolt and also the length. Does it
> also
> describe the number of threads per inch? I think that if I could identify
> the bolt then I could use the "Acceptable Methods...." document to come up
> with the torque. I don't want to over torque things, which would be easy
> to
> do with this kit. It seems like most of the stuff will be in in/lbs, but
> I'm sure some of the engine/gear bolts will be in ft/lbs.
>
> I've been looking at the following document:
> AC 43.13-1B ACCEPTABLE METHODS, TECHNIQUES, AND PRACTICES - AIRCRAFT
> INSPECTION AND REPAIR
> September 8, 1998
> (With Change 1 Incorporated)
>
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Tommy Walker in Alabama
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Tommy:
The Aircraft Spruce catalog has this information. See the hardware
section,page 75 and on. Each AN size designation corresponds to one
particular thread. All AN3s have a 10-32 thread, all AN4s have a 1/4-28
thread, and so on.
All AN fasteners use this system.
George
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Torque Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>
> This is probably the dumb question of the month, but here goes....
>
> I'm looking for a little help in identifying bolts and nuts. I have the
> document described below, but I'm too slow to understand some of what I'm
> reading.
>
> For instance, I'm told to use an AN3-4A Bolt in a certain instance. I
think
> I remember this designates the type bolt and also the length. Does it
also
> describe the number of threads per inch? I think that if I could identify
> the bolt then I could use the "Acceptable Methods...." document to come up
> with the torque. I don't want to over torque things, which would be easy
to
> do with this kit. It seems like most of the stuff will be in in/lbs, but
> I'm sure some of the engine/gear bolts will be in ft/lbs.
>
> I've been looking at the following document:
> AC 43.13-1B ACCEPTABLE METHODS, TECHNIQUES, AND PRACTICES - AIRCRAFT
> INSPECTION AND REPAIR
> September 8, 1998
> (With Change 1 Incorporated)
>
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Tommy Walker in Alabama
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: sportypilot@stx.rr.com
an3-?? bolts is 20-25 inch pounds
an4-?? bolts is 50-70 inch pounds
the A means it don't have a hole for safety wire non A means it has a hole
the ?? is the length..
the 3 or 4 is the diameter..
----- Original Message -----
From: Tommy Walker <twalker@cableone.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Torque Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker"
> <twalker@cableone.net>
> This is probably the dumb question of the month, but here goes....
>
> I'm looking for a little help in identifying bolts and nuts. I
> have the
> document described below, but I'm too slow to understand some of
> what I'm
> reading.
>
> For instance, I'm told to use an AN3-4A Bolt in a certain
> instance. I think
> I remember this designates the type bolt and also the length.
> Does it also
> describe the number of threads per inch? I think that if I could
> identifythe bolt then I could use the "Acceptable Methods...."
> document to come up
> with the torque. I don't want to over torque things, which would
> be easy to
> do with this kit. It seems like most of the stuff will be in
> in/lbs, but
> I'm sure some of the engine/gear bolts will be in ft/lbs.
>
> I've been looking at the following document:
> AC 43.13-1B ACCEPTABLE METHODS, TECHNIQUES, AND PRACTICES - AIRCRAFT
> INSPECTION AND REPAIR
> September 8, 1998
> (With Change 1 Incorporated)
>
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Tommy Walker in Alabama
>
>
> _-
> _-
> _-
> =====================================================================
>
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Hard IFR in a 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
While I intend to outfit and fly my 601XL with a Dynon (or maybe 2) for IFR
I don't intend to ever fly it in hard IFR. Now our definitions of hard IFR
may be different but while it is a hell of a little plane it was never meant
to fly in my definition of hard IFR.
I plan to back up the Dynon(s) with an altimeter and an ASI. Add to that the
Garmin 296 and good old fashion compass that will be in the aircraft I ought
to be able to get out of anything the 601XL ought to be in.
Gig G
Except for the ice on your wings maybe...................
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Hard IFR in a 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
You are right, I will never think about taking off in IFR conditions, or getting
in porpose in bad weather, maybe the only equipment we need is a wing leveler/GPS
track (I have a Navaid Installed) and a compass. For me IFR flying
(if I get over confident) will be looking for an alternate landing strip,
with the idea of "get me out of this fast before it gets worse... "
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
"Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
There are a few 601's outfitted for IFR but I wouldn't fly one in IFR
conditions. To me its not worht it, I mean you really need a heated
pitot and a few grands worth of equipment. To me the 601 is way to
"twitchy" to consider IFR so you would never make use of the investment.
Just a thought
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona
Subject: Zenith-List: Hard IFR in a 601
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona"
While I intend to outfit and fly my 601XL with a Dynon (or maybe 2) for
IFR I don't intend to ever fly it in hard IFR. Now our definitions of
hard IFR may be different but while it is a hell of a little plane it
was never meant to fly in my definition of hard IFR.
I plan to back up the Dynon(s) with an altimeter and an ASI. Add to that
the Garmin 296 and good old fashion compass that will be in the aircraft
I ought to be able to get out of anything the 601XL ought to be in.
Gig G
www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Frank:
I agree with you completely except for one thing...
What do you do for backup - run TWO Dynon units ??
I sure would hate to be in hard IFR and have the unit quit...that's why
I was thinking AI, DG, and Altimeter as steam-gauge backups. Am I
approaching this all wrong? Yes, I know electric AI units are
available, but they are well
over $2k as well !! That leaves an electric DG ???
As always, thank you for your help and thoughts.
Regards,
Tracy Smith
---------------------------------
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Hard IFR in a 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Sincerely, doesnt matter how much experience you have, I am worried about your
excess of confidence...
Just that I have lost, in 29 years of flying, several good friends because they
were "expert" pilots and "got to get there" minded. If weather is bad
to fly and there is no (comercial) flights available is cheaper to call "Hertz"
to drive home than the funeral... (they are always in good weather).
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
"n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com"
While I intend to outfit and fly my 601XL with a Dynon (or maybe 2) for IFR
I don't intend to ever fly it in hard IFR. Now our definitions of hard IFR
may be different but while it is a hell of a little plane it was never meant
to fly in my definition of hard IFR.
I plan to back up the Dynon(s) with an altimeter and an ASI. Add to that the
Garmin 296 and good old fashion compass that will be in the aircraft I ought
to be able to get out of anything the 601XL ought to be in.
Gig G
Except for the ice on your wings maybe...................
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Aileron push rods. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann@gi.is>
Hello list members.
For those who are interested in knowing how the aileron push rod problem ended,
they turned out to be 365 mm long on the lower rods, and 395 mm on the upper
rods.
Total length from bolt to bolt is: lower 400 mm, upper 430 mm.
Best wishes,
Johann G.
Iceland.
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: prepaint filler for open rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Larry, on filling all those rivet heads. I to thought about it then I looked
at a 210 that has raised heads. Looked okay. The problem with filling
thousands of heads may not be the slight weakening of each individual sanded rivet
which you could never compute. The problem is that no matter what you fill them
with, because of stress, weather, heat and cold, and general flex some of the
fills will pop out. Then you have an airplane with measles. If speed is your
goal for use of your time spend it wet sanding and high speed buffing would
pay a greater dividends. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Tommy, some of the spec for bolts and nut can confuse anybody. I have an A &
P buddy that told me wrong several times and he should have known I recommed
you look in the Spruce catalog on "fashioners." It explained the bolts and nuts
pretty well. Also the catalog is free!!. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | Re: 701 Wing Tips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Flavin <jflavin@intrex.net>
* Looking at the ZAC manual, it appears they want the wing tip skin to be
formed
and rivet over, (on top of), the fiberglass tip. Is that OK or does the
skin
need to go UNDER the fiberglass tip? I hate to have a skin edge facing forward.
Thoughts??
The ZAC plans call for the tip skin lapping over the fiberglass tip. I went ahead
and did it that way on
the right wing and figure I will on the left as well when I get there. Looks a
little odd, but I figure
that will go away after painting. Although the seam faces forward, it is not very
thick and lies flat.
Aerodynamically it might be better than a thicker seam downwind, although at 85mph
probably makes no difference.
Structurally, I like the rivet heads against metal, and put little washers on the
inside to protect
the fiberglass.
John
CH701
*
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: L above elevator cable on horizontal stab. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
Hi Johann...
The measurements for our flaperon controls are:
Upper - 445 mm center to center of the connecting bolts, the all-thread is
approx 405 mm
Lower - 380 mm center to center of the connecting bolts, the all-thread is
approx 340 mm
Tony Pierce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johann G." <johann@gi.is>
Subject: Zenith-List: L above elevator cable on horizontal stab.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann@gi.is>
>
> Hello list members.
>
> I do appreciate all the help with the aileron/flaperon rods.
> Can anyone tell me the reason for the "L" on the horizontal stabilizer
> above the elevator cable, where it enters the stabilizer?
> I do not see any use for it except maybe just to add strength to the
> leading edge of the stab, where the hole is made for the cable.
> BTW, my upper elevator cable is hitting the lower end of this hole at the
> right low point of the cut out hole, even thought I install the plastic on
> the forward "L" on top of the stab.
> I will get you the measurement for the rods later tonight.
>
> Best wishes,
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
>
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Nose Wheel steering? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
Many thanks to everyone who responded with thoughts about disconnecting the
701nose gear. My thinking now is that at a minimum I would have to redesign
the nose gear to trail more, to make it self center and castor more freely, and
add some sort of resisance (spring or bungee to take up slack and maybe to add
centering tendency to the rudder and rudder peddles.
I guess I'll just listen to those with ideas about decreasing the friction in
the nosewheel set up.
Jim Greenough
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