---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/23/05: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:43 AM - CH601HDS Speeds (John C Livsey) 2. 05:20 AM - Gascolators and Cheapskates (Bob Miller) 3. 05:22 AM - Gascolators and filters (Bob Miller) 4. 06:18 AM - Re: Zodiac Gascolators (Schemmel, Grant) 5. 06:18 AM - Re: Gascolators and filters (David Barth) 6. 06:45 AM - Re: Gascolators and filters (Larry McFarland) 7. 07:36 AM - Re: Rotax 912 & 914 Oil Starvation (Leo Gates) 8. 08:58 AM - Re: Gascolators and filters (Gary Gower) 9. 09:05 AM - Re: Zodiac Gascolators (Leo Corbalis) 10. 09:06 AM - Re: Re: Zodiac Gascolators (Gary Gower) 11. 09:34 AM - More on fuel filters (Zed Smith) 12. 10:20 AM - Back in the air again (Richard McLachlan) 13. 12:24 PM - Rudder Skin (Dave & Darlene) 14. 12:58 PM - Re: Rudder Skin (N5SL) 15. 03:34 PM - Re: Rudder Skin (Cdngoose) 16. 06:16 PM - Re: Back in the air again (Larry McFarland) 17. 06:49 PM - Re: Gascolators and filters (Bob Miller) 18. 06:51 PM - Re: CH601HDS Speeds (Larry McFarland) 19. 07:16 PM - Questions on 601 XL (Dave VanLanen) 20. 08:49 PM - Taildragger rudder cable tension (Brandon Tucker) 21. 08:50 PM - Re: Questions on 601 XL (Cdngoose) 22. 08:56 PM - Re: Questions on 601 XL (Mark Stauffer) 23. 10:59 PM - Re: Questions on 601xl (Brandon Tucker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:59 AM PST US From: John C Livsey Subject: Zenith-List: CH601HDS Speeds --> Zenith-List message posted by: John C Livsey Hi all, I am getting slowly closer to the first flight of my CH601HDS and am putting together a preliminary POH. Can anyone help out with the speeds they use for, 1. Rotation - Normal climb 2. Rotation - Short field 3. Best rate of climb speed 4. Best angle of climb speed 5. Best glide speed 6 Emergency power off approach speed, flare speed. 7. Normal landing approach speed, flare speed PS Please indicate mph or knots! John Livsey ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:11 AM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Zenith-List: Gascolators and Cheapskates --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Many thanks to all who responded to my query re gascolators. The majority opinion seems to summed up by Jeff Small's typically concise "stop being a cheapskate, buy the ACS gascolator". Upon consideration, since fuel problems seem to be the biggest cause of homebuilt smoking holes, the gascolator may not be the place to try to save $50 bucks... May your petrols forever flow, Bob ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:41 AM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Zenith-List: Gascolators and filters --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Larry, Along with the recommendation for a standard gascolator, you mentioned you're replacing paper filters with stainless. My read is that paper filters would be fine if regularly checked for a) debris clogs, and b) water damage. What do you (and y'all) think? Bob ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:06 AM PST US From: "Schemmel, Grant" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac Gascolators --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Schemmel, Grant" I used a fuel/water separator from a diesel Volkswagen Rabbit, mid 80's maybe? Anyway, works great - it's a spin on fuel filter with a removable plug at the bottom that you can screw a quick drain into. The filter base unbolts from the Rabbit engine compartment, and is an easy install on the firewall. Oh, and it takes AN6 fittings too. FWIW and my 2 cents. Grant Schemmel Penrose, CO 601HDS/O-200, 87 hrs. Time: 12:45:27 PM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac Gascolators --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Since Zenith's gascolator lacks a screen, I've installed inline filters. My tech counselor suggested I purchase a regular gascolator and do away with the filters and, being a cheapskate, I said I'd check with other Zenith builders. Any feedback? Bob Miller ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:56 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gascolators and filters --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth Hi Bob. I have a comment re paper fuel filters. One of our advisors really stresses staying away from paper filters since they will absorb water and if it then freezes it is no longer a filter but a plug in the fuel line. Up here in the frozen north that could happen all too easily. I personally have no experience with this but it comes from a good source and makes sense to me. Just my 2 cents. David Bob Miller wrote: you're replacing paper filters with stainless. My read is that paper filters would be fine if regularly checked for a) debris clogs, and b) water damage. What do you (and y'all) think? Bob David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? Working on Wings www.ch601.org --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:57 AM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gascolators and filters --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Bob, I believe your exactly right. Paper filters are fine if they are replaced annually. The type that are see-thru offer as good a feel for what's going on as anything. A stainless filter would bring the same obligation for cleaning and filter replacement as the paper type. My search for a good stainless see thru filter is motivated by concern for a possible fire hazard if the plastic gets damaged. It's located directly downstream of the two fuel pumps. Purolator makes an acceptable see through stainless type, but my local sources have been unable to supply them. Larry McFarland Bob Miller wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" > >Larry, >Along with the recommendation for a standard gascolator, you mentioned >you're replacing paper filters with stainless. >My read is that paper filters would be fine if regularly checked for a) >debris clogs, and b) water damage. >What do you (and y'all) think? >Bob > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:38 AM PST US From: "Leo Gates" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 & 914 Oil Starvation --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Gates" Johann, Thanks for the link. Zenith has come a long way since 1998 when I bought my kit. Could you send me your e-mail address so I can send you a picture of the drawing in my installation manual. I can then point out to you the error in the drawing. Leo Gates Do not archive. -------Original Message------- From: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 & 914 Oil Starvation --> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo, Here is the link to Zenith's installation method on the Zenith 701. It should be the same for the 601. http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/data/r912s-s4.pdf It shows the oil vent pointing to the right. Regards, Johann G. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Gates" > > Johann, > > I received no instructions from Zenith. If you position the oil tank so > that the vent on the neck is pointing to your right, then your > understanding > of oil flow is correct. > > Leo Gates > > -------Original Message------- > > From: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: 03/22/05 17:25:04 > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 & 914 Oil Starvation > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > > Hello Leo and group. > > I would like to know if the Zenith instructions are correct. > The outlet from the oil reservoir tank is on the left side and connects to > the left of the oil cooler. Then it is connected to the engine on the > right lower side beneath the oil pressure sender. > Then it exits from the bottom of the engine back into the oil reservoir > Is this the correct understanding of the oil flow? > > I just bought the engine oil today, and am about to go through this same > ordeal. > > Good luck with your new engine and getting Rotax to pay for it. > > Best wishes, > Johann G. > Iceland. > johann@gi.is > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:46 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gascolators and filters --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower I will never use paper filters in a vehicle that couldnt get serviced in a curve :-) I spent all my school years (since age 12) as a tune up mechanic, lots of the filters let go tini pieces of filter that clogs the carb valve. The paper filter is press fit assembled, sometimes the filter "bites" the filtering material in the wrong side (the exit side) that later with the pressure of the gasoline will get loose. The metal screen filters that can be desasembled for cleaning (and safetied) are the better to use, like gascolators or some inline filters. Saludos Gary Gower. Bob Miller wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Larry, Along with the recommendation for a standard gascolator, you mentioned you're replacing paper filters with stainless. My read is that paper filters would be fine if regularly checked for a) debris clogs, and b) water damage. What do you (and y'all) think? Bob --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:44 AM PST US From: "Leo Corbalis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac Gascolators --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" I got a "Mister Funnel" with a very fine mesh builtin filter from CPS in 1997 which I always use. It does an excellent job of keeping trash out. It does let some water through. My annual gascolator screen inspection is boring as in they are always clean. I have only found water on a sump check when I've had to use 100LL. Its well worth the fuss. Leo Corbalis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Maxson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zodiac Gascolators > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" > > My gascolator, as received from Zenith 2 years ago, has a screen. I also > have an inline fuel filter downstream from the gascolator. > > Phil Maxson > 601XL/Corvair > >>From: "Bob Miller" >>Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac Gascolators >>Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:14:52 -0500 >> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" >> >> >>Since Zenith's gascolator lacks a screen, I've installed inline filters. > <> > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:33 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac Gascolators --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower My favorite, used one for years in my Rotax 503 powered ultralight trike and still use one in my VW bus, kind of bulky for the 701 firewall... but will give it a thought for the first yearly mantainance. Saludos Garfy Gower "Schemmel, Grant" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Schemmel, Grant" I used a fuel/water separator from a diesel Volkswagen Rabbit, mid 80's maybe? Anyway, works great - it's a spin on fuel filter with a removable plug at the bottom that you can screw a quick drain into. The filter base unbolts from the Rabbit engine compartment, and is an easy install on the firewall. Oh, and it takes AN6 fittings too. FWIW and my 2 cents. Grant Schemmel Penrose, CO 601HDS/O-200, 87 hrs. Time: 12:45:27 PM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac Gascolators --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Since Zenith's gascolator lacks a screen, I've installed inline filters. My tech counselor suggested I purchase a regular gascolator and do away with the filters and, being a cheapskate, I said I'd check with other Zenith builders. Any feedback? Bob Miller --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:16 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: More on fuel filters --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Not to start another long discussion, but....... Two old crop duster pilots that I had the pleasure of knowing for many years always insisted on using the largest fuel filter that would physically fit into the space available....the theory being that there was much more surface area within the filter and therefore less chance of complete sudden stoppage of fuel flow. Both gentlemen installed new filters every fifty flight hours, sometimes sooner depending on what fell out of the drains. Neither ever made an emergency landing because of filter problems. Both died of old age. The larger area in the bigger filter has less restriction to flow, so the practice seems worthwhile to me. Ah, yes, Spring is returning to the Northern Hemisphere!! Zed/701/R912/checked my oil line routing twice yesterday do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:36 AM PST US From: "Richard McLachlan" Subject: Zenith-List: Back in the air again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" Some of you will remember that our 601HDS was suddenly grounded last August due to our discovering that 3 of the 4 engine mounting brackets were completely broken. Well, 7 months later we are all repaired and made the first flight on a lovely English Spring day today. We had to replace the complete engine (912) mounting frame with a new one from the factory, and in the end we had to get new mounting brackets custom made as there was no way the factory ones were going to fit. We think that the reason for the failures was stressing of the brackets when the engine was originally fitted - this time there was absolutely no stress at the joints during final assembly. We also had to make steel reinforcing plates that are riveted to the firewall in the corner areas where the original firewall has been bent and cracked due to it having to support the full load of the engine for who knows how many hours. If anybody is interested I can put some pics of the repaired areas on my web site. One small problem remaining is that the engine is obviously not quite in the position it used to be presumably due to tolerances between the old and new mounting frames. This has caused the exhaust pipes to rub slightly on the fibreglass outer skins in a couple of places. Other than that it seems to be going well - just as well considering the many hours we have spent during the winter in a cold and windy shed with no light, heat or power. Roll on Summer! Richard McLachlan CH601/R22 landing site details at www.rodsley.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:24 PM PST US From: "Dave & Darlene" Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Skin --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" Hi List I've looked in the archives but couldn't find the answer I wanted. Does anyone have an easy way to bend the rudder skin. I have a brake but unable to get that kind of width in. I know ther must be a simple way. My thoughts are to fold the two sides together and tape. Then using a piece of plywood push down on the skin until I get the proper bend. Am I correct on this. Dave ( Alberta) 601XL 99% to go www.borrowmyhusband.com/Nimigon_601XL ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:39 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Skin --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Good Afternoon Dave: ZAC bent mine at the rudder workshop, but I've bent almost every other piece myself. If you are talking about the large rudder skin (not the nose piece), it's a pretty sharp bend and it needs to be straight. I suspect you won't get a good result from folding it over and squishing it. I recommend you take it to a fab shop and pay them $15 to bend it for you. It's a straightforward process and will take them a few minutes if the brake is set up for the 1/8" radius. If it is not, they will have to move the top of the brake backwards or forwards which takes a few more minutes. When you get to the elevator, things get a little more complicated and you should do a practice bend with a strip of aluminum. Here's a photo of my test bend for the elevator: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_20_Testbend.jpg Here's the full-length part bent and ready for assembly: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_22_03Elevatorparts.jpg One last bit of advice. Always cut out the part larger than the drawing indicates. You can trim it after you make the bend(s). I hope this is helpful. Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ 601XL / Corvair working nightly on the instrument panel DO NOT ARCHIVE Dave & Darlene wrote: Does anyone have an easy way to bend the rudder skin. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:09 PM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rudder Skin --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Dave If you use the plywood method don't forget to secure a dowel in place to protect against bending to far. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751 President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave & Darlene Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Skin --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" Hi List I've looked in the archives but couldn't find the answer I wanted. Does anyone have an easy way to bend the rudder skin. I have a brake but unable to get that kind of width in. I know ther must be a simple way. My thoughts are to fold the two sides together and tape. Then using a piece of plywood push down on the skin until I get the proper bend. Am I correct on this. Dave ( Alberta) 601XL 99% to go www.borrowmyhusband.com/Nimigon_601XL ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:05 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Back in the air again --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Congratulations Richard, Really pleased you've got the bird in the air again. Some would have called it right there, but you have the persistence when it counts. I had the same sort of problem with the exhaust making contact with a lower segment of my cowl. I had to replace a segment each side with a piece of aluminum. You can check the segments out at the following address on my site. The slightly rolled forward edge allows air to cool the aluminum and the exhaust inside. www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/radforwardfront.gif Best regards, Larry McFarland - 601HDS @ macsmachine.com Richard McLachlan wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" > >Some of you will remember that our 601HDS was suddenly grounded last August >due to our discovering that 3 of the 4 engine mounting brackets were >completely broken. Well, 7 months later we are all repaired and made the >first flight on a lovely English Spring day today. > >One small problem remaining is that the engine is obviously not quite in the >position it used to be presumably due to tolerances between the old and new >mounting frames. This has caused the exhaust pipes to rub slightly on the >fibreglass outer skins in a couple of places. Other than that it seems to be >going well - just as well considering the many hours we have spent during >the winter in a cold and windy shed with no light, heat or power. > >Roll on Summer! > >Richard McLachlan > >CH601/R22 > >landing site details at www.rodsley.net > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:23 PM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gascolators and filters --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Larry, Yep, the see-thru aspect is what attracted me to the paper filters, but David Barth's post about the possibility of them freezing is a bit scarey. I intend to do some experimenting to see if visual inspection would easily reveal a wet filter. Grant's idea about the Rabbit filter sounds good too. Please let us know if you find a source for the gascolator see-throughs. Bob ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:59 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601HDS Speeds --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland John, Each HDS will vary a bit, but roughly, this is what you have in MPH. Normal climb rotation nosegear from the runway is <50 so liftoff is good at <65. Short field rotation requires practice to get nose off quicker and liftoff at just <60 to accelerate to climb. Best rate of climb is found at 80. Best angle of climb is at 75. Best glide speed is 85. (for distance) Best emergency approach speed is 80, flare speed 70. Normal landing approach is 85, base at 80, final at 75, flare at 70, touchdown at <60, rollout holding nose gear off to 40. These are subject to differences in loading, peculiarities of your aircrafts drag, center of gravity, and whether you've wheel pants, tri-gear or tail-dragger, but good enough to become familiar with in practice. I think the tail dragger would require a slightly different set of numbers, and longer takeoffs. Larry McFarland - 601HDS - Stratus at 730 lbs empty - 1300 lbs full John C Livsey wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: John C Livsey > >Hi all, > >I am getting slowly closer to the first flight of my CH601HDS and am >putting together a preliminary POH. Can anyone help out with the speeds >they use for, > > >PS Please indicate mph or knots! > >John Livsey > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:33 PM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: Questions on 601 XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" I have been lurking on this list for over a year, to learn as much as I could about the 601 XL. I have also visited the factory and had a ride in the demonstrator in September. Prior to that I had established a realistic aircraft mission statement for myself, spent time studying the Aerocrafter book from EAA, talking to vendors at AirVenture, and doing quite a bit of other research on various aircraft that I felt might meet my mission. I have concluded that the 601 XL is the best fit for me. I'm just having a little trouble "pulling the trigger". So I decided to do a "brain dump" of any remaining questions I could think of, and post them on this site for some help from all of you fine folks. If I don't get any "show stopper" answers, I plan to take the plunge and move ahead with taking the builder's class and ordering the kit. Please forgive me for the lengthy post, but I respect your expertise and opinions, and would really appreciate your input. Please feel free to respond to me off-list (e-mail davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net). Here are my questions: 1. Lighter landing gear: a. Is Grove the only option? b. If not, is Grove the best option? c. Is it as strong as the ZAC gear? d. Is it main gear only, or is nose gear also provided? e. Does it include wheels / brakes, or do those still come from ZAC? f. How are the brake lines routed? g. Can the gear legs be faired with aluminum, and has anyone done this? h. Where can I get more information? 2. Are there any other kit components available from other companies that are recommended over those provided in the ZAC kit? a. Is ZAC OK with a builder excluding any such components from their kit and ordering from other companies? 3. Taildragger option: a. Is it lighter than a tri-gear, and if so, by how much? b. Any other benefits that outweigh going with a tri-gear? 4. Are there other options for lighter, more streamlined wheel pants (main and nose gear)? 5. Dual stick option: a. Is the center console smaller / narrower with a dual stick, or is it the same? b. What is the weight penalty? c. Can the right stick be removed when taking passengers? Is it easy to remove? d. Does the optional upholstery kit include a dual-stick alternative? 6. Has anyone had success with polishing their plane using the Nuvite process? 7. There has been a lot of discussion around fuel system setups on the list. Is the factory design inadequate for some reason, or would I be OK with using the design that is included with the kit (3300 Jabiru)? 8. Are there any significant defects in the current design that need to be corrected in order to have a satisfactory aircraft (such as size/effectiveness of trim tabs noted on this site)? 9. Jabiru 3300: a. What carburation is provided? b. Is carb heat provided? 10. Is cabin heat provided with the kit (3300 Jabiru)? 11. Has the 601 XL been officially approved as an LSA by the FAA, or has that not been finalized yet? Some of the above questions are driven by a need to keep the empty weight as low as possible, as I want to fly x-country with my wife, and our combined weight requires the maximum possible payload. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide, Dave Van Lanen DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:53 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Taildragger rudder cable tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Gents, I have the distinct feeling that this is a stupid question, but I can't find it in the plans or archives. How in the hell do you keep the rudder pedals upright and the cables tensioned on a taildragger? Also, I used Jeff's photo guide for seat construction this week, and it was a breeze. I made mine slightly different, but really enjoyed building them. Thanks, Brandon __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:21 PM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Questions on 601 XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Holy Crap Dave ! you do have a few questions. I can't answer all of them but I'll offer my opinion on a few. Answers mixed in below for my sanity. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751 President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com 1. Lighter landing gear: Fiberglass a. Is Grove the only option? Nope but it is a good choice b. If not, is Grove the best option? You could also ask Chip at the Chezk (never can spell that one)he ahs a fiberglass answer for landing gear c. Is it as strong as the ZAC gear? Maybe even better with the gunn drilling d. Is it main gear only, or is nose gear also provided? Main gear and you could change it for a smaller piece of 2024, but you would have to figure out how to install it. e. Does it include wheels / brakes, or do those still come from ZAC? ZAC /Spruce / Wicks / E-Bay / Florida Cessna after hurricane/ your choice f. How are the brake lines routed? Tie wrapped from ZAC/ possibly gunn drilled from Grove, Could be rear grooved if you do it yourself g. Can the gear legs be faired with aluminum, and has anyone done this? h. Where can I get more information? Ask / visit Sun-N-Fun there should be over 100 Zentih Builders at the BBQ on Thursday 2. Are there any other kit components available from other companies that are recommended over those provided in the ZAC kit? I like Vans NACA ducts/ there is a fellow down south that makes canopys and guarantees them to be installed crack free or it will be replaced. Even if it was you who cracked it. Check the archives for his name. a. Is ZAC OK with a builder excluding any such components from their kit and ordering from other companies? ZAC is great in this venue, order as much or as little as you want ZAC is friendly to all builders even us scratch ones. 3. Taildragger option: a. Is it lighter than a tri-gear, and if so, by how much? b. Any other benefits that outweigh going with a tri-gear? Ground loop/prop strike/ but it does go a couple mph faster then the nose gear and there is that fighter feeling when your trying to see that 182 right in front of you hidden behind your cowling, but I may be a bit bias on this one. Each has good and bad points, it truly is a personal thing. 4. Are there other options for lighter, more streamlined wheel pants (main and nose gear)? Make your own, if there good enough sell-em 5. Dual stick option: Yuck phooey na na but once again I may be a bit bias. Check archives for this topic we beat the hell out of that horse. Another personal decision. a. Is the center console smaller / narrower with a dual stick, or is it the same? Same but you may want to increase it so you can fit 2 small gauges side by side. b. What is the weight penalty? Buy the wife another of her favorite dress two sizes smaller and hide her original. Soon there will be no problem with weight. c. Can the right stick be removed when taking passengers? Is it easy to remove? There see another reason to leave the center stick like Chris designed for the last 20 years. But I digress. d. Does the optional upholstery kit include a dual-stick alternative? I'll leave this shot alone 6. Has anyone had success with polishing their plane using the Nuvite process? 6061 will shine after extensive hours of manual labour, but it will never be as good as 2024 for shine, Paint can be a pilots friend if you like to fly. 7. There has been a lot of discussion around fuel system setups on the list. Is the factory design inadequate for some reason, or would I be OK with using the design that is included with the kit (3300 Jabiru)? Yup, remember many people have different idea's and it is there own plane. Let each be comfy in there decision, the factory way works fine. But I'm not going that route either. 8. Are there any significant defects in the current design that need to be corrected in order to have a satisfactory aircraft (such as size/effectiveness of trim tabs noted on this site)? Not a thing, to make it satisfactory but even a cessna wouldn't hurt from some tweaking to match ones personality. 9. Jabiru 3300: Crap this is a long letter a. What carburation is provided? Differ to others, but I will say I prefer the Jabaru 3300 in the 601XL to all other engines. I'm just to poor to own one. Mark DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:40 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Questions on 601 XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" 5a - Same 5b - Not sure but a little more 5c - No and no. I'm sure you could modify it to add some sort of pin that you could pull so you could remove the stick. Adds more weight though. Mark Stauffer 601XL Dual Sticks Fuselage in progress. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:55 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Questions on 601xl --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Answers imbedded: 1. Lighter landing gear: a. Is Grove the only option? -----They are the only good option. The fiberglass gear from Chzek is two piece, and requires major mount modification. Failing to nail down Chip for a price on a couple of tries turned me off. Very light at 14 lbs though. b. If not, is Grove the best option? -----Yes. You could make your own like I did, but grove is better. 28 lbs - compared to 43 for stock. Gun drilled lines are great. c. Is it as strong as the ZAC gear? -----Yes. It is heat treated 2024 vice cold bent 6061. (opinion) -ZAC over built the XL gear. d. Is it main gear only, or is nose gear also provided? -----Nose gear is not provided, but can be purchased from ZAC separately. e. Does it include wheels / brakes, or do those still come from ZAC? -----The Grove gear does. $1500 for gear, gun drill, wheels and brakes. NOT nosewheel. f. How are the brake lines routed? -----My opinion - go with the Grove gun drill for $100 extra. h. Where can I get more information? -----www.groveaircraft.com a. Is ZAC OK with a builder excluding any such components from their kit and ordering from other companies? -----Absolutely. I just ordered the canopy latches - to install on my scratch built canopy frame and Todd's canopy. Which, BTW, fits almost perfectly, and requires very little trimming. 3. Taildragger option: a. Is it lighter than a tri-gear, and if so, by how much? -----I don't have hard numbers, but I think you will be within a couple of pounds either way. William Wynne states a higher weight for his taildragger, but it started out as a tri, and has extra parts up front. b. Any other benefits that outweigh going with a tri-gear? -----Much easier to teach your friends / kids / ect... Safer to land and taxi. In my opinion, the only up side to a 601 taildragger is the cool factor. Having said that, I am building a taildragger - but for other reasons. Jump in, the water is great! R/ Brandon Tucker Airframe almost complete! DAR mid build inspection tomorrow! __________________________________