---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/25/05: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:55 AM - Re: Zodiac 601 HDS (ron dewees) 2. 06:15 AM - Re: 701 first flight (n801bh@netzero.com) 3. 06:28 AM - Re: HDS speeds (Schemmel, Grant) 4. 06:33 AM - Re: Stainless Steel Rivets (ransley) 5. 06:55 AM - Re: Stainless Steel Rivets (Paul Moore) 6. 07:49 AM - rivnuts & rivet material question () 7. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: Stainless Steel Rivets (Ihab Awad) 8. 09:13 AM - 601 Lower Engine Mounts - Answer (Lance Gingell) 9. 09:17 AM - 601XL Flap actuator travel (Lance Gingell) 10. 09:27 AM - Re: Lift Reserve Indicator (Lance Gingell) 11. 09:37 AM - Re: Re: Stainless Steel Rivets (jnbolding1) 12. 09:44 AM - Re: Update Sun-N-Fun BBQ (Jim Pellien) 13. 10:38 AM - Re: Lift Reserve Indicator (Jeffrey Glasserow) 14. 10:45 AM - Sun-N-Fun BBQ (Clyde Barcus) 15. 10:47 AM - Re: 601XL Flap actuator travel (BillSewell@aol.com) 16. 10:59 AM - Re: Eyeball Vent (N5SL) 17. 11:09 AM - Re: 601XL Flap actuator travel (Lance Gingell) 18. 01:05 PM - Re: 701 first flight (Leo Gates) 19. 02:30 PM - Re: Gascolators and filters (Carl Bertrand) 20. 03:56 PM - Re: Lift Reserve Indicator (n801bh@netzero.com) 21. 06:43 PM - Re: Re: Stainless Steel Rivets (Chris Boultinghouse) 22. 07:04 PM - Re: Lift Reserve Indicator (Paul Moore) 23. 07:23 PM - Re: Re: Stainless Steel Rivets (Larry McFarland) 24. 10:27 PM - partly complete Zodiac 601 HD for sale (keith.maloney@comcast.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:58 AM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac 601 HDS --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees gpjann@juno.com wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: gpjann@juno.com > >Plans built Zodiac 601 HDS, N4399 received its Airworthiness this >morning. >Powered by 100HP Corvair, tricycle gear, day VFR plus, >Final weight 701 lbs. This includes locating battery in rear, along with >15.5 lbs of balast. >Will be starting taxi testing this weekend. > >Congratulations Greg! > > Looking forward to hearing about your flight experience in the exciting times to come! Beautiful plane.Bet there will be lots of interested Corvair wanabe drivers will be waiting to hear how this plane/engine combination works out. I bet it will be wonderful. Ron N601TD PS Greg was my tech counselor and really knows his stuff. This plane is really nice! do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:04 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 first flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" 701 GDZZ made her maiden flight today. All went well, numbers as advertised. 912s, 650 gross (paint thick), standard instruments. 1200 hours build time. Perservere, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. John Way to John !!!!!!! Congrat to you. The first flight is a feeling that cannot be duplicated in any form... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:16 AM PST US From: "Schemmel, Grant" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: HDS speeds --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Schemmel, Grant" Hey Grant, Mind if I ask what you get for cruise speeds at altitude? I suspect your wt/hp/prop combo is very similar to mine, and am looking for some comparison numbers as a sanity check. I'm curious, in that I still am not terribly happy with what I have for cruise speeds. My HDS is set up with an O-200, gross @ 1300, empty about 740, and a Warp Drive 68" 3-blade set to 10.5 deg. @ tip, and I get an absolute max of 116 mph @ 7000'MSL (my airport's at 5440'). I need the prop setting where it is in order to get a decent climb rate at this altitude, and I don't have wheel pants on yet either, so the gear is a bit draggy. Appreciate any numbers you can give, Thanks! Grant Schemmel Penrose, CO ******************8 Time: 05:52:50 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: HDS speeds From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau What I use (in MPH) -- GW 1300lbs; CAM100 (100hp) engine with WARP drive 3 blades set at 16.5 degress pitch (at the tip) IMPORTANT: my ASI has checked out to be accurate within a couple of mph.. > 1. Rotation - Normal climb Rotate at 60, flyoff at 70, climb intially at 80, then 100 for vis/engine cooling > 2. Rotation - Short field Full backstick will get the nose off at about 50-55, liftoff in ground effect about 60-65. LEVEL OFF in ground effect until 70+ (continue as above)... > 3. Best rate of climb speed 80mph > 4. Best angle of climb speed 70mph > 5. Best glide speed glide! You're thinking of another airplane -- ha! Use 80-85 for best distance; 70-75 for minumum descent rate expect to come down steeply regardless! > 6 Emergency power off approach speed, flare speed. 80 on descent; 70 crossing the fence; touchdown as slowly as possible (60ish) - plan for a 'close pattern' because the glide will not be long... Corrections from 'too high - too close' are easily made with side-slipping. Then it resembles an aluminum parachute. Just be sure to keep on enough speed while slipping to recover to a safe flying speed when straightening out lower down. The momentum vs. drag of this airplane (I think glider pilots call it 'penetration') is low - i.e. it slows down rapidly once the power comes off, or once you level off. > 7. Normal landing approach speed, flare speed 80 on approach, 70 crossing the fence, use power-assisted approach and ease the power off in the flare to touchdown about 60. Expect to raise the nose high compared to many other aircraft you may have flown - the horizon will be covered at touchdown - this fat little wing requires very nose-high attitudes when flying close to the stall speed - especially in ground effect. Caution: your numbers may vary! ;-) FWIW -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:16 AM PST US From: ransley Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Stainless Steel Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: ransley I haven't built an airplane. I lurk here to learn. I do have extensive experience in riveting aluminum. Stainless Steel rivets will enlarge the hole in aluminum and fall out, fast and easy, unless you use a washer at least on the blind side. I would not do this lightly, and I would not do it all in a place where I could not inspect those rivets, both visually and MANUALLY. DB ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:46 AM PST US From: "Paul Moore" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Stainless Steel Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" In addition, the stainless steel against the aluminum will greatly increase the galvanic corrosion potential and that isn't a good thing. Since the rivet has to have tight contact, there is no way to safeguard against it either. Paul -----Original Message----- Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Stainless Steel Rivets I haven't built an airplane. I lurk here to learn. I do have extensive experience in riveting aluminum. Stainless Steel rivets will enlarge the hole in aluminum and fall out, fast and easy, unless you use a washer at least on the blind side. I would not do this lightly, and I would not do it all in a place where I could not inspect those rivets, both visually and MANUALLY. DB Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:28 AM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: rivnuts & rivet material question --> Zenith-List message posted by: I install my rivnuts in non structural applications (when nut plates would be too difficult to install) using Loctite 262 (Red) around the flange and the barrell area that gets pulled up to the sheet.. Clean the area before pulling.. Seems to work. Tony Graziano 601XL , N493TG - Structure and engine install complete Completing "Systems" and awaiting delivery of major avionics component. From: "Leo Corbalis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: rivnuts & rivet material question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" I used the keyed rivnuts. I took an old hacksaw blade,ground away most of the backing so I had a short very skinny saw to cut the key notch in the side of the hole. I didnt bother with countersinking and I used greased nylon screws from a hobby shop. I grease the screws. Set them tight so the screw streches a tiny bit and they stay put until you want to remove them. Leo Corbalis ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:41 AM PST US From: Ihab Awad Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Stainless Steel Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad Hi folks, On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 07:54:47 -0700, Paul Moore wrote: > In addition, the stainless steel against the aluminum will greatly increase > the galvanic corrosion potential ... > > -----Original Message----- > Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Stainless Steel Rivets > > ... Stainless Steel rivets will enlarge the hole in aluminum and fall out, > fast and easy, ... Fwiw, the Sonex uses stainless steel rivets in 6061-T6 aluminum, and many are flying with no apparent problems. Peace, Ihab ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:46 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Lower Engine Mounts - Answer From: "Lance Gingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" List, (I changed the name of this thread, for my particular 'tangent'). I heard from Nick at ZAC today about my engine mounts: " The bolt are in the aft edge of the bottom flange 6B6-1, the bolt is also drilled through the shim between the engine mount fitting 6B6-5 and the cabin floor 6B10-1. Try to keep the bolts as far forward as possible, the drawings show the front AN3 bolt at 13m to the front of the fitting. Before drilling the holes at 13mm check that the head of the bolt will not interfere with the weld to hold AN6 bolt to the steel lower engine mount fitting 6B6-6. If necessary more the bolt back to clear the weld." He sent some photos of the demo XL lower engine mounts. The engine mount bolts don't have good edge clearance on that airplane - in fact they appear to overlap the edge of the firewall bottom and into the shim. So, I think I have no worries, since mine will actually fit slightly better than the demo airplane! Hope this helps someone else. Cheers, ..lance http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Gingell Subject: RE: Zenith-List: rivnuts & rivet material question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" --> ..Talking of motor mounts. I haven't drilled my lower engine mounts (601XL) yet. The plans (vaguely) show that the forward bolt goes through the mount, shim and longeron....but does it go through the bottom flange of the firewall also? Seems like theres not much room for correct (or barely any) edge distance for this forward bolt because of the welds in the mount? ..lance http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:45 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Flap actuator travel From: "Lance Gingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" I've just started measuring my flap travel with the actuator and flap control tubes in place. It appears that the upper limit of flap travel is limited by the 'start' of flap motor travel, and the lower limit is limited by the rear channel. This appears to give me only about 20 degrees of flap travel. Anyone else run into this? I have drilled my flap tube holes/bearings right on the flap hinge pin (using the wing jig & a hinge). The drawing 6-B-19 says to do this. I noticed it also shows 50mm between the bottom of the flap control tube and the bottom skin. Mine is a bit less than this. I suspect this would give me a little more travel, but not a lot. Much head scratching ensued last night on this, and I'm still not clear. Anyone have any war stories on this one? Cheers, ..lance http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:18 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Lift Reserve Indicator From: "Lance Gingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" Nice work Scott, http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_24_05_LRI.jpg I have a Q: Is that a Vans eyeball vent? Or from where? ..lance -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL Subject: Zenith-List: Lift Reserve Indicator --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Hi guys: Tonight I mounted my lift reserve indicator with a new face. I printed a white face and a black face and decided on the white one. I may have to change it after flying with it, but I wanted to give it a try. Here's a closeup of the indicator: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_24_05_LRI2.jpg Here's a photo of all the new instruments: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_24_05_LRI.jpg The front glass screws off so it's easy to install the new face. The face is just regular paper printed on a color printer. I know a lot of you guys are considering this device so I hope this is helpful. I've spent a total of $35 on all the parts to my LRI system. I think David and Mark posted the directions at ch601.org. Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ N5SL (Reserved) 601XL/Corvair Working on Instrument Panel ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:28 AM PST US From: "jnbolding1" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Stainless Steel Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" - Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad > >Hi folks, > >On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 07:54:47 -0700, Paul Moore wrote: >> In addition, the stainless steel against the aluminum will greatly increase >> the galvanic corrosion potential ... >> ... Stainless Steel rivets will enlarge the hole in aluminum and fall out, >> fast and easy, ... > >Fwiw, the Sonex uses stainless steel rivets in 6061-T6 aluminum, and >many are flying with no apparent problems. Peace, > >Ihab Take a walk down the flight line and observe the factory airplanes that have substituted SS screws for the cad or zinc plated ones used by the factories. I think you will find a surprising number of the ones with SS screws have a high percentage of corrosion bubbles within 1/2" of the screw. Granted that 2024 and 6061 are two different alloys but if you look at a Periodic chart you will see that alum and the major components that make up SS are not very compatable. I was in the corrosion industry (primarily marine and petrochem) for 32 yrs and many things affect how two dissimilar metals react but you're asking for trouble building a Sonex with SS rivets in Houston (or any coastal area) with the humidity and nasty atmosphere. LOW&SLOW John ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:02 AM PST US From: "Jim Pellien" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Update Sun-N-Fun BBQ --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" Mark, We are looking forward to the barbecue. Thanks for the invitation. Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic SportsPlanes.com (MASPL) 703-313-4818 www.Pellien.com/MASPL.htm www.sportsplanes.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Cdngoose Subject: Zenith-List: Update Sun-N-Fun BBQ --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Hi just a quick update for everyone, we now have over a hundred people registered for the Sun-N-Fun BBQ and we still have 20 days left before the event. I expect the event to climb even higher in the number of attendants before we leave for Florida. Luckily, we have already received some donations and will post all thanks to the contributors after the BBQ. It has been somewhat of a relief to say the least, when I came up with this idea and talked to David and Jon I said we would be lucky to have 30-40 people show up, won't be a problem we'll just toss in another Hibachi and it'll be covered! This goes to prove Zenith Builders and Owners are a friendly lot. It also looks like we will have improved cooking abilities to handle everyone so don't worry about waiting too long for your burger or dog we should have it covered. We have also extended an Invitation out to Jabiru USA and to Sportsplanes.com to come and visit our BBQ due to there ongoing support of Zenith Airplanes and it Owners and Builders. ZAC is also planning on attending. I will keep all of you posted of any updates and news. Don't forget your lawn chairs and drinks. See ya soon Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751 President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:38 AM PST US From: "Jeffrey Glasserow" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Lift Reserve Indicator clamav-milter version 0.80j on artemis --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow" I have an LFI mounted on my glare screen right in front of me. I find it to be much more accurate than any of the vacuum instruments like the vsi and asi, especially around flare and touchdown speeds. Jeff Glasserow Ch601 HDS N6384E ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:38 AM PST US From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun BBQ --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" Hi Mark: Looks like you really started something, personally, I can't wait to meet like-minded people. I changed my schedule just for the opportunity to chat with fellow builders and to learn from those who are further ahead in their project than me. Just goes to show you what friendly people with initiative can accomplish. Sincerely: Clyde Barcus 601XL Builder Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:50 AM PST US From: BillSewell@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Flap actuator travel --> Zenith-List message posted by: BillSewell@aol.com In a message dated 3/25/2005 9:18:38 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, lgingell@matrix-logic.com writes: I've just started measuring my flap travel with the actuator and flap control tubes in place. It appears that the upper limit of flap travel is limited by the 'start' of flap motor travel, and the lower limit is limited by the rear channel. This appears to give me only about 20 degrees of flap travel. Anyone else run into this? I have drilled my flap tube holes/bearings right on the flap hinge pin (using the wing jig & a hinge). The drawing 6-B-19 says to do this. I noticed it also shows 50mm between the bottom of the flap control tube and the bottom skin. Mine is a bit less than this. I suspect this would give me a little more travel, but not a lot. Much head scratching ensued last night on this, and I'm still not clear. Anyone have any war stories on this one? I had lots of fun with this also. The first time I installed the flap torque tubes, I used the 50mm from the drawings as the reference for full down travel and drilled the tubes. I discovered that at full up travel on the motor, the flaps weren't fully up against the rear channel. On the second set of torque tubes, I ran the motor up until it just shut off when it opened the up limit switch and then drilled the tubes in the full up position. Take a look here: _http://www.n601bz.com/CH601XL/Fuselage/Flap_Control/122404.htm_ (http://www.n601bz.com/CH601XL/Fuselage/Flap_Control/122404.htm) And here; _http://www.n601bz.com/CH601XL/Fuselage/Reassemble/013005.htm_ (http://www.n601bz.com/CH601XL/Fuselage/Reassemble/013005.htm) Bill Sewell _www.n601bz.com_ (http://www.n601bz.com) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:37 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Eyeball Vent --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Yep. It's from Vans. I bought the kit with the duct, hose and all. It's a little bigger than I was expecting, but it looks like it will do the job. DO NOT ARCHIVE --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" I have a Q: Is that a Vans eyeball vent? Or from where? --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:29 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Flap actuator travel From: "Lance Gingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" Thanks Bill, I was looking at those while I was getting everything together, they really helped. How much down travel do you get? (assuming you get 0 degrees along the bottom of the flap in 'up' position) Whats the gap between the bottom of your control tube and the bottom skin? Cheers, ..lance -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BillSewell@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Flap actuator travel --> Zenith-List message posted by: BillSewell@aol.com In a message dated 3/25/2005 9:18:38 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, lgingell@matrix-logic.com writes: I've just started measuring my flap travel with the actuator and flap control tubes in place. It appears that the upper limit of flap travel is limited by the 'start' of flap motor travel, and the lower limit is limited by the rear channel. This appears to give me only about 20 degrees of flap travel. Anyone else run into this? I have drilled my flap tube holes/bearings right on the flap hinge pin (using the wing jig & a hinge). The drawing 6-B-19 says to do this. I noticed it also shows 50mm between the bottom of the flap control tube and the bottom skin. Mine is a bit less than this. I suspect this would give me a little more travel, but not a lot. Much head scratching ensued last night on this, and I'm still not clear. Anyone have any war stories on this one? I had lots of fun with this also. The first time I installed the flap torque tubes, I used the 50mm from the drawings as the reference for full down travel and drilled the tubes. I discovered that at full up travel on the motor, the flaps weren't fully up against the rear channel. On the second set of torque tubes, I ran the motor up until it just shut off when it opened the up limit switch and then drilled the tubes in the full up position. Take a look here: _http://www.n601bz.com/CH601XL/Fuselage/Flap_Control/122404.htm_ (http://www.n601bz.com/CH601XL/Fuselage/Flap_Control/122404.htm) And here; _http://www.n601bz.com/CH601XL/Fuselage/Reassemble/013005.htm_ (http://www.n601bz.com/CH601XL/Fuselage/Reassemble/013005.htm) Bill Sewell _www.n601bz.com_ (http://www.n601bz.com) ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:58 PM PST US From: "Leo Gates" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 first flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Gates" John, Success like yours keeps us all going and going and going............ CONGRATULATIONS! Leo Gates N601Z Do not archive -------Original Message------- From: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: 701 first flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Birgiolas" 701 GDZZ made her maiden flight today. All went well, numbers as advertised 912s, 650 gross (paint thick), standard instruments. 1200 hours build time. Perservere, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. John ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:15 PM PST US From: "Carl Bertrand" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gascolators and filters --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carl Bertrand" Dual paper filters for 10 years without a problem. I change them at 100 hrs or every year. When opened they look new and the carb bowls are clean. 701/912 Carl ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:04 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Lift Reserve Indicator --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" I have an LFI mounted on my glare screen right in front of me. I find it to be much more accurate than any of the vacuum instruments like the vsi and asi, especially around flare and touchdown speeds. Jeff Glasserow Ch601 HDS N6384E The VSI and ASI are not vacuum instruments.... Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:58 PM PST US From: "Chris Boultinghouse" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Stainless Steel Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Boultinghouse" This topic has been discussed on the Sonex list, and there has been research done by some folks with the credentials to back up their opinions. The conclusion? It's not an issue. The Sonerai design has been flying for 20+ years, and it uses stainless rivets in aluminum structure for the wings. There are Sonex's living within a few miles of the ocean (all 3 coasts). They haven't turned into white powder and dissolved, the rivets haven't enlarged the holes and fallen out, and they don't have paint bubbles around every rivet. If you want to read more than you ever wanted to know on the subject, join the Sonextalk list and read this message: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sonextalk/message/1139 As for the original question? I think the stainless steel rivets in the firewall are a good idea. In fact, if my memory isn't failing me, the factory 801 has stainless rivets holding on the firewall. You might want to ask Zenith what they think. Regards, Chris Boultinghouse Austin, TX Sonex N260SX (reserved) http://sonex260.wheelsup.org > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jnbolding1 > Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 11:36 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Stainless Steel Rivets > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" > > - Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad > > > >Hi folks, > > > >On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 07:54:47 -0700, Paul Moore wrote: > >> In addition, the stainless steel against the aluminum will > greatly increase > >> the galvanic corrosion potential ... > > >> ... Stainless Steel rivets will enlarge the hole in aluminum > and fall out, > >> fast and easy, ... > > > >Fwiw, the Sonex uses stainless steel rivets in 6061-T6 aluminum, and > >many are flying with no apparent problems. Peace, > > > >Ihab > > Take a walk down the flight line and observe the factory > airplanes that have substituted SS screws for the cad or zinc > plated ones used by the factories. I think you will find a > surprising number of the ones with SS screws have a high > percentage of corrosion bubbles within 1/2" of the screw. Granted > that 2024 and 6061 are two different alloys but if you look at a > Periodic chart you will see that alum and the major components > that make up SS are not very compatable. I was in the corrosion > industry (primarily marine and petrochem) for 32 yrs and many > things affect how two dissimilar metals react but you're asking > for trouble building a Sonex with SS rivets in Houston (or any > coastal area) with the humidity and nasty atmosphere. LOW&SLOW John > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:24 PM PST US From: "Paul Moore" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Lift Reserve Indicator --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" Scott, who was your source for the gauge? Cheapest I can find is around $48 before shipping. Also, did you make the drilled block or have a shop do it? I'm not sure I can drill a 6" - 3/16 hole, much less make it straight enough to hit the other end with the intersecting hole! Paul Moore XL O-200 ..I've spent a total of $35 on all the parts to my LRI system Scott Laughlin ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:14 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Stainless Steel Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland And then there are those of us who've used stainless steel for the firewall to avoid the really thin galvanized steel recommended in the plans. You do paint your contact surfaces prior to assembly, but it's common to sandwich stainless and aluminum in aircraft structures. Larry McFarland - 601HDS > >As for the original question? I think the stainless steel rivets in the >firewall are a good idea. In fact, if my memory isn't failing me, the >factory 801 has stainless rivets holding on the firewall. You might want to >ask Zenith what they think. > >Regards, > >Chris Boultinghouse >Austin, TX >Sonex N260SX (reserved) >http://sonex260.wheelsup.org > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:23 PM PST US From: keith.maloney@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: partly complete Zodiac 601 HD for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: keith.maloney@comcast.net Hi, I have a plans built, 40% complete 601HD for sale. I think all the air frame parts are made with the exception of the two .016" wing end ribs and the wing leading edges and ailerons are not bent. The fuselage is clecoed together and the gear is in. The wings have the parts made, and with the exception of the wing spars, have not been drilled. The only thing I have riveted together is the center wing spar. All work is good and the quality of the parts are as good as what I have seen of the factory parts. It is easer to cover what I don't have, nothing firewall forward, no gas tanks but I do have the capacitive type fuel senders for leading edge tanks and a dual gage. I also do not have the canopy and I only have one wheel pant. I did buy all the other fiberglass parts Zenith has to offer for the 601 HD. I do have the wheels and brakes, rivets (short on A5s), trim servo, gear and forks, and all the clecos a person could want. I would be glad to send pics and answer an y questions. I also will include the form blocks for the wing ribs (laminated with 1/8 alum.) two sets lighting hole squeeze dies (tool steel), pneumatic rivet puller, tons of excess aluminum. And if the deal is right I might even throw in a near new Miller Sincrowave 180SD tig/stick welder. I am asking for about what I have in it, $9000.00. The only real catch is any interested buyer would have to come here (Northern Colorado) with a trailer or a truck to get it. I am willing to sacrifice a weekend to help disassemble and pack it up, but I will not ship it. If you are interested please e-mail me with questions or pic request at keith.maloney@comcast.net I have a digital camera and will take any close-ups of anything you want to see. I think that if you see the quality of the work in the hard spots you will get a good feel for the rest of the plane. Oh, and of course it comes with a licensed set of plans and serial number from Zenith Aircraft. I bought the 601HDS plans which included the 601HD, just in case I wanted to change wings someday. Keith Hi, I have a plans built, 40% complete 601HD for sale. I think all the air frame parts are made with the exception of the two .016" wingend ribsand the wing leading edges and ailerons are not bent. The fuselage is clecoed together and the gear is in. The wings have the parts made, and with the exception of the wing spars, have not been drilled. The only thing I have riveted together is the center wing spar. All work is good and the quality of the parts are as good as what I have seen of the factory parts. It is easer to cover what I don't have, nothing firewall forward, no gas tanks but I do have the capacitive type fuel senders for leading edge tanks and a dual gage. I also do not have the canopy and I only have one wheel pant. I did buy all the other fiberglass parts Zenith has to offer for the 601 HD. I do have the wheels and brakes, rivets (short on A5s), trim servo, gear and forks, and all the clecos a pe rson could want. I would be glad to send pics and answer any questions. I also will include the form blocks for the wing ribs (laminated with 1/8 alum.) two sets lighting holesqueeze dies (tool steel), pneumatic rivet puller, tons of excess aluminum. And if the deal is right I might even throw in a near new Miller Sincrowave 180SD tig/stick welder. I am asking for about what I have in it, $9000.00. The only real catch is any interested buyer would have to come here (Northern Colorado) with a trailer or a truck to get it. I am willing to sacrifice a weekend to help disassemble and pack it up, but I will not ship it. If you are interested please e-mail me with questions or pic request at keith.maloney@comcast.net I have a digital camera and will take any close-ups of anything you want to see. I think that if you see the quality of the work in the hard spots you will get a good feel for the rest of the plane. Oh, and of courseit comes witha licensed set of plans and serial number from Zenith Aircraft. I bought the 601HDS plans which included the 601HD, just in case I wanted to change wings someday. Keith