Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:23 AM - Re: My first error (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
2. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: Questions On 601 XL (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
3. 05:29 AM - Re: My first error (Phil Maxson)
4. 05:51 AM - Re: My first error (Rico Voss)
5. 06:10 AM - Errors (Zed Smith)
6. 07:08 AM - Re: Heat Shrink Tubing (Don Mountain)
7. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: Questions On 601 XL (Larry McFarland)
8. 07:17 AM - Re: My first error (Larry McFarland)
9. 07:34 AM - Re: Heat Shrink Tubing (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
10. 07:38 AM - Re: Heat Shrink Tubing (Trevor Page)
11. 08:27 AM - Re: My first error ()
12. 09:29 AM - Re: My first error (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
13. 09:31 AM - Interior Primer Paint (Don Mountain)
14. 09:36 AM - Re: My first error (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
15. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Questions On 601 XL (tmak)
16. 09:43 AM - Re: Interior Primer Paint (Larry McFarland)
17. 09:45 AM - Jabiru Spinner (Stanley Challgren)
18. 10:29 AM - Re: Interior Primer Paint (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
19. 10:49 AM - Re: Jabiru Spinner (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
20. 10:50 AM - Re: Interior Primer Paint (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
21. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: Hole Finder (Tommy Walker)
22. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: Re: Hole Finder (Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers)
23. 11:27 AM - Re: Interior Primer Paint (N5SL)
24. 11:34 AM - Re: Interior Primer Paint (Mike H)
25. 12:03 PM - Re: My first mistake (Brandon Tucker)
26. 12:23 PM - Re: Re: Re: Hole Finder (Larry McFarland)
27. 12:49 PM - Re: Re: Re: Hole Finder (Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers)
28. 01:17 PM - Re: Jabiru Spinner (Paul Moore)
29. 02:25 PM - Re: Interior Primer Paint (ZMAN601XL@aol.com)
30. 03:55 PM - 601XL Details (Greg Lamoree)
31. 05:33 PM - Re: Interior Primer Paint (Rick)
32. 06:51 PM - Re: Errors (Cdngoose)
33. 08:51 PM - zodie speed (Dr. Perry Morrison)
34. 10:46 PM - Cool radar site (kevinbonds)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: My first error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Mike:
You didn't make a mistake - you just made that connection stronger than it
was designed to be !! Seriously, don't sweat it - drilling it out with a #20
for a A5 rivet is no problem.
I built my rudder at the factory workshop and, of course, had NO problems at
all because there was plenty of knowledgeable people walking around all
day...but as soon as I get home I'm reinventing the wheel with simple questions
and problems. My point is - ASK and you'll get help right here until you gain
enough experience to think your own way through the issues. By the time
you're done with the empennage you'll be close to perfect !!
Many builders pre-drill with a #40 drill and THEN drill out to the A4 rivet
with the #30 drill. This way the hole is closer to perfect. I can say it
works. I was struggling with less-than-perfect holes that was driving me
crazy! I thought I had chuck wobble from the pneumatic drill I was using, but
no...it was haste, inexperience, and stupidity biting me in the backside.
(Chuck Wobble - didn't he host a game show in the 70's? No, that was Chuck
Wollery....)
Enjoy a good laugh and push on !!!
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl tail 100% N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
In a message dated 3/29/2005 11:07:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mhilderbrand@cox.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H" <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
Just started the rudder and I feel like such a dork. Don't ask, but I made
one of my holes oblonged drilling rib # 3 to the spar. I read before that
using the next size bigger (#20) is typically ok to do. My edge distance would
still be in check. opinons?
thanks!
mike
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Questions On 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Dave:
Every one of us remember "the decision" - it's the first of many on this
journey to build a Zodiac. My suggestion would be to read everything you can
on
building off of the Zodiac web site...and start thinking about outfitting
your workshop.
Build a 4 x 12 worktable, get some 2" x 2" x 4 ft square STEEL channels, buy
a bunch of #40, #30, & #20 drill bits, and get a copy of all the catalogs
you can and look at all the stuff....
Enjoy your journey
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl tail 100% N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
In a message dated 3/29/2005 10:03:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
<davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Thank you to everyone who provided answers to my questions, and for the
encouragement to get started building. With my family's blessing, I decided
to move ahead. I just submitted a registration for the next available
Factory Workshop in August. In the meantime, I will start getting my
workshop in shape, and continue learning what I can about the upcoming
building process. I'm sure I will have a lot of questions for the group as
things start to happen. I'll try to keep my posts short!
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
601XL - decision made
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
Welcome to the club! Ah, I remember the good ol' days when I was a virgin.
;-)
Sometime, when our planes are flying and we meet at a fly-in, I'll show you
all the mistakes in my plane. Almost anything is fixable in a safe and
asthetically pleasing manner. Too often I get caught up in over analyzing
problems and obsessing over solutions. One of the reasons they have us
build the rudder first, is because it is simple and because errors there are
less critical. That's also why ZAC builds the main spar completely
themselves (in the kit). Don't worry about it. Keep building!
Replacing an A4 rivet with an A5, as you suggest, is completely acceptable,
as described in detail by Chris Heintz in one of the old issues of the
Zenair Newsletter.
Phil Maxson
>From: "Mike H" <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: My first error
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H" <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
>
>Just started the rudder and I feel like such a dork. Don't ask, but I made
>one of my holes oblonged drilling rib # 3 to the spar. I read before that
>using the next size bigger (#20) is typically ok to do. My edge distance
>would still be in check. opinons?
>thanks!
>mike
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: My first error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rico Voss <vozzen@yahoo.com>
Mike-- Minor mistake, as pointed out. It's easy to drill
bigger.
> Many builders pre-drill with a #40 drill and THEN drill
> out to the A4 rivet
> with the #30 drill.
I'd like to reinforce this suggestion. You get a much
better final hole if you do that. Get lots of silver
clecos. It adds a step, but it's worth the extra time.
AND,
Before you drill every "final" hole, think ahead to make
sure there won't be another piece (flange) added later.
Keep the intersection holes "pilot" size until ALL pieces
are in place. This will help make all your holes round and
vertical. Spend some time looking ahead in the plans so
you know what pieces will be attached later. This also
helps figure your edge distances.
Keep a'drillin.
--Rico
__________________________________
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
do not archive
Using an A5 where an A4 was originally intended is not always a mistake.
Sometimes the A5 is placed at random locations for various valid reasons, including:
Temperature compensation,
Asymmetrical imbalance,
Mach 2 prevention,
Rivet puller tests,
DAR vision test,
Unavailability of an A4 at the moment,
Hole was too large for an A4,
and, best of all,
It is a lot less expensive than replacement parts.
Only when the hole grows to the point that a 4' x 12' sheet won't cover it is there
cause for concern.
A small, very small, number of builders on this list have made mistakes.....everybody
else is making improvements.
Enjoy!
Zed/701/R912/90+%
forecast high for today: 80 degrees F
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Heat Shrink Tubing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Mountain" <mountain4don@hotmail.com>
The Zenith instruction manual gives directions to solder the wires together
for the elevator trim motor, and then just wrap the connection with tape. I
was thinking the heat shrink tubing would be better and cleaner. These
wires are so small, at 24 guage, that I am not sure crimp connections would
work? Are they available for this small of a wire somewhere for airplane
use?
>DO NOT just solder the wires together. Soldering result in a brittle
>connection, which eventually will fail due to the vibrations in the
>airplane. Use crimp connectors instead.
>As far as the tubing is concerned: they all should be fine.
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Questions On 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Congratulations and welcome Dave,
Its a long road, but very gratifying during the process right to the end.
Hope to hear more as things progress and what you think of the workshops.
Larry McFarland
- Do not archive - is added to keep the archives from acquiring more
than the technical repository that it is.
Dave VanLanen wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Thank you to everyone who provided answers to my questions, and for the
>encouragement to get started building. With my family's blessing, I decided
>to move ahead. I just submitted a registration for the next available
>Factory Workshop in August. In the meantime, I will start getting my
>workshop in shape, and continue learning what I can about the upcoming
>building process. I'm sure I will have a lot of questions for the group as
>things start to happen. I'll try to keep my posts short!
>
>Dave Van Lanen
>Madison, WI
>601XL - decision made
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: My first error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Mike,
Perfectly o.k. to go to the next size A4 to A5, but I'd recommend you
look carefully at the bullet drills made by Black & Decker. They have a
stepped point that puts a 1/32 hole in before the sized hole and these
don't wander at all. They seemed to last a long time as well.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS @ macsmachine.com
Do not archive
Mike H wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H" <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
>
>Just started the rudder and I feel like such a dork. Don't ask, but I made one
of my holes oblonged drilling rib # 3 to the spar. I read before that using the
next size bigger (#20) is typically ok to do. My edge distance would still
be in check. opinons?
>thanks!
>mike
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Heat Shrink Tubing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Don:
You can get VERY SMALL crimp connectors at Radio Shack and most electronics
suppliers. I used the little ones from Radio Shack used to connect telephone
wires - and they are real small too !!
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl tail 100% N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
In a message dated 3/30/2005 10:09:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mountain4don@hotmail.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Mountain" <mountain4don@hotmail.com>
The Zenith instruction manual gives directions to solder the wires together
for the elevator trim motor, and then just wrap the connection with tape. I
was thinking the heat shrink tubing would be better and cleaner. These
wires are so small, at 24 guage, that I am not sure crimp connections would
work? Are they available for this small of a wire somewhere for airplane
use?
>DO NOT just solder the wires together. Soldering result in a brittle
>connection, which eventually will fail due to the vibrations in the
>airplane. Use crimp connectors instead.
>As far as the tubing is concerned: they all should be fine.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Heat Shrink Tubing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Ugh, never use that black electricians tape. When the stuff gets warm
is goes to a goo and looks like crap. Very amateurish.
Use heatshrink for sure but I crimp and solder my connections.
Trevor Page
601HD complete. Now painting
On Mar 30, 2005, at 10:07 AM, Don Mountain wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Mountain"
> <mountain4don@hotmail.com>
>
> The Zenith instruction manual gives directions to solder the wires
> together
> for the elevator trim motor, and then just wrap the connection with
> tape. I
> was thinking the heat shrink tubing would be better and cleaner. These
> wires are so small, at 24 guage, that I am not sure crimp connections
> would
> work? Are they available for this small of a wire somewhere for
> airplane
> use?
>
>> DO NOT just solder the wires together. Soldering result in a brittle
>> connection, which eventually will fail due to the vibrations in the
>> airplane. Use crimp connectors instead.
>> As far as the tubing is concerned: they all should be fine.
>
> Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: My first error |
Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:26:04 -0600
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Mike, we do not make errors. We merely make temporary changes in policy. You just
determined that that specific area required a larger rivet, that's all.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike H<mailto:mhilderbrand@cox.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:06 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: My first error
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H" <mhilderbrand@cox.net<mailto:mhilderbrand@cox.net>>
Just started the rudder and I feel like such a dork. Don't ask, but I made one
of my holes oblonged drilling rib # 3 to the spar. I read before that using
the next size bigger (#20) is typically ok to do. My edge distance would still
be in check. opinons?
thanks!
mike
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Oh rib to spar boo boo?...Not even in the land of visible
mistakes...This is so small its irrelavent.
Of course this is after building 1.5 airplanes I can say this.
Either drill an additional rivet next to the old one if there is room,
enlarge the rivet or make an L bracket that you rivet to the rib web and
re drill the hole. You then make a plate for the spar and add an
additional rivet to replace the one you "lost".
Many possibilities just remember to replace the strength of the damaged
rivet with an additional one of you can't correct the original hole with
a larger rivet.
Enjoy
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
PAULROD36@msn.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: My first error
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Mike, we do not make errors. We merely make temporary changes in policy.
You just determined that that specific area required a larger rivet,
that's all.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike H<mailto:mhilderbrand@cox.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:06 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: My first error
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H"
<mhilderbrand@cox.net<mailto:mhilderbrand@cox.net>>
Just started the rudder and I feel like such a dork. Don't ask, but I
made one of my holes oblonged drilling rib # 3 to the spar. I read
before that using the next size bigger (#20) is typically ok to do. My
edge distance would still be in check. opinons?
thanks!
mike
Message 13
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| Subject: | Interior Primer Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
I recently purchased a 601 XL kit from Zenith, and my
wife and I put the rudder together at the factory
workshop. It was evidently already primed at the
factory. Now we are working on the horizontal
stabilizer and elevator parts of the tail, and are not
clear on what should be primed as we rivet it all
together. We are using a Dupont primer system for
aluminum that we purchased at the local auto paint
supplyer, and painting all the structural parts
interior to the skin, but not the inside of the skins.
Is everyone else doing the inside of the skins also?
The 4 step process includes hand polishing, acid
etching, conversion coating, and then the paint. Is
there something easier than this? With all the water
washing it takes me a whole day to do the process on
what seems like just a handfull of interior parts.
__________________________________
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: My first error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Mike, don't sweat it ! By the time I finished my fuselage I found a dozen
holes I either failed to even drill, of were the smaller size. All easily
repaired or added. Also as the pieces become more complex the plans will call
for
NO DRILL zones or areas because other parts overlap and drilling should be
deferred. Be real observant of those notes and mark the hell out of those areas.
Last, before you call something ready to rivet always totally review the plans
for that piece "eye to eye" finger to metal with the piece. You will always
find something you could have done maybe a little bit better. No sweat, unless
the wing won't fit on or the tail will fall off because of the problem you can
usually fix the boo boo. Last thing all drill bits are not the same. Some
(sold me by Spruce) for No.20 & 30 & 40 did not drill round holes. The holes
were three sided and to correct the dozen odd holes I had to use a larger "good"
bit and rivets. Live, work, and learn. Best of Luck, Bill of Georgia
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Questions On 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "tmak" <tmak@comcast.net>
Dave, when I started setting up my workshop, instead of buying a lot of
each of the various drill bits, I only bought a few and borrowed my
father's "Drill Doctor" to resharpen the bits. It works great, and if I
didn't have one to borrow, I would have purchased one of my own.
Tom Makibbin
601XL Tail and right wing done, left wing 30%
Do not archive.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Interior Primer Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Don,
After a light Scotchbrite rubdown and an acetone wipe and dry,
for most of the inside surfaces, I sprayed Zinc Chromate very lightly
and for the surfaces that are riveted together, the same, but a little
heavier
toward a covering coat. Wear a 3M respirator w/organic 6001 filters and
you'll be fine.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
Don Mountain wrote:
>The 4 step process includes hand polishing, acid
>etching, conversion coating, and then the paint. Is
>there something easier than this? With all the water
>washing it takes me a whole day to do the process on
>what seems like just a handfull of interior parts.
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
Listers:
I have had three spinners on my 3300 and two of them failed in flight.
The second failure occurred about 5 minutes into its' first flight and
took a good section of the relatively new Sensinich prop with it.
Our third spinner was from Pete at Jabiru USA. It came with easy to
read instructions, was easy to install and looks great. I would highly
recommend it and wished now I had known about it earlier so that I
would not have lost an exceptional prop.
Stan
601HDS/Jabiru 3300
170 hours
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Interior Primer Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
At the very least, you should put some kind of anti-corrosion primer on the surfaces
where riveted parts come together. These are areas where moisture and contaminants
could accumulate and promote corrosion. If you live near the ocean
or other ppotentially corosive environment or plan on putting the plane on floats
it would be a good idea to prime the all the inside surfaces.
I used zinc chromate primer on just the mating surfaces. I bought spray cans but
the things kept clogging up no matter how well I mixed them before use so I
eventually just released the pressure in the cans and dumped the contents into
a quart can and brushed the stuff on. You only need a light coat of the stuff
to get full protection. Just don't breathe the overspray, zinc chromate is toxic
if ingested. Use a good organic chemical filter mask when spraying it. Just
clean the surfaces to pe painted, apply a light coat and let it dry and you're
done. The material the Zenith airplanes are made of (6061) is a corrosion resistant
alloy to begin with, this makes corrosion protection less of an issue
than it would be with typical aircraft aluminum (2021).
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> I recently purchased a 601 XL kit from Zenith, and my
> wife and I put the rudder together at the factory
> workshop. It was evidently already primed at the
> factory. Now we are working on the horizontal
> stabilizer and elevator parts of the tail, and are not
> clear on what should be primed as we rivet it all
> together.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Spinner |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Stan, what went wrong with the first two spinners that they failed ? Also
what came from Pete at JAB that has convinced you it is superior ? When I
received my FWF kit from Jabiru the prop and spinner combination did not match
the
plans. The forward fiberglass plate that was already drilled to the spinner
had to have the lip chopped off so that the spinner cone (that is too short)
would overlap the rear reversed plate that required screws to hold the spinner
on. I pointed this problem out to Pete, Nick and Roger and they all pretty much
said it would be okay, so we shall see. Why they don't just replace the
spinner cone with a cone that is a quarter inch longer so the problem is solved
is
a mystery. Stan, did your newest spinner require two rows of screws ? Rear and
middle ? Best of Luck, Bill of Georgia
Message 20
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| Subject: | Interior Primer Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
The other option is the self etching primer that I have been using on
the RV (from NAPA)...Don't wan't to breathe that either but it seems to
not clog the nozzle.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
bryanmmartin@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Interior Primer Paint
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
At the very least, you should put some kind of anti-corrosion primer on
the surfaces where riveted parts come together. These are areas where
moisture and contaminants could accumulate and promote corrosion. If you
live near the ocean or other ppotentially corosive environment or plan
on putting the plane on floats it would be a good idea to prime the all
the inside surfaces.
I used zinc chromate primer on just the mating surfaces. I bought spray
cans but the things kept clogging up no matter how well I mixed them
before use so I eventually just released the pressure in the cans and
dumped the contents into a quart can and brushed the stuff on. You only
need a light coat of the stuff to get full protection. Just don't
breathe the overspray, zinc chromate is toxic if ingested. Use a good
organic chemical filter mask when spraying it. Just clean the surfaces
to pe painted, apply a light coat and let it dry and you're done. The
material the Zenith airplanes are made of (6061) is a corrosion
resistant alloy to begin with, this makes corrosion protection less of
an issue than it would be with typical aircraft aluminum (2021).
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain
> --> <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> I recently purchased a 601 XL kit from Zenith, and my wife and I put
> the rudder together at the factory workshop. It was evidently already
> primed at the factory. Now we are working on the horizontal
> stabilizer and elevator parts of the tail, and are not clear on what
> should be primed as we rivet it all together.
Message 21
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| Subject: | RE: RE: Hole Finder |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Thanks folks. I overlook the obvious answers to problems. I really appreciate
the responses I got both on and off list.
Hopefully at some point I will be able to "Pay It Forward."
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Message 22
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| From: | "Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers" <wayne@engravers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RE: Hole Finder |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers" <wayne@engravers.net>
Tommy,
If you want to "Pay If Forward" you have to do it BEFORE you start asking
for information. Now you can only "Pay It Back."
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: RE: Hole Finder
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>
> Thanks folks. I overlook the obvious answers to problems. I really
> appreciate the responses I got both on and off list.
>
> Hopefully at some point I will be able to "Pay It Forward."
>
> Tommy Walker in Alabama
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Interior Primer Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hi Don:
I've been coating parts for two years and I have had some time to try different
methods and see the lasting results. The best I've found (everybody does it
different) is as follows:
1. Use green Scotch-Bright to remove all the scratches and provide a nice surface.
You will find some nice, big ones at WalMart in the dishwashing soap section.
2. Apply (scrub) a 50/50 solution of water and an acid/washing compound called
"ProPar" I got from a truck supply company.
3. Rinse well and dry with a lint-free cloth.
4. Apply coating.
This method provides a coating that's hard to scratch off. The first few parts
I put together I used lacquer thinner, then zinc chromate and I found the primer
didn't stay stuck. I could scratch it off with my fingernail.
To answer your question, yes, I coat the inside of the skin also. Especially where
two parts mate.
That's just the way I do it.
Scott Laughlin
N5SL (Reserved)
www.cooknwithgas.com
601XL / Corvair
Working on Instrument Panel
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com> wrote:
With all the water washing it takes me a whole day to do the process on what seems
like just a handfull of interior parts.
---------------------------------
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Interior Primer Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H" <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
I just bought Dupont's "Nason 2 part epoxy primer. I heard it is real
similar to veriprime but a lot cheaper. I was not sure the right way to
prime either. I plan to just clean the part and spray. After searching past
archives and the internet, I learned there are as many "Gods" of corrosion
protection as there are ways of protecting (everyone has their own way, and
it is the only "right" way.) Finally, I talked to a couple rv guys locally,
they used veriprime and the other used the NAPA self-etching primer in the
rattle cans. I figure that is good enough for the women I go out with!
Good luck to you!
mike
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Mountain" <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Interior Primer Paint
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> I recently purchased a 601 XL kit from Zenith, and my
> wife and I put the rudder together at the factory
> workshop. It was evidently already primed at the
> factory. Now we are working on the horizontal
> stabilizer and elevator parts of the tail, and are not
> clear on what should be primed as we rivet it all
> together. We are using a Dupont primer system for
> aluminum that we purchased at the local auto paint
> supplyer, and painting all the structural parts
> interior to the skin, but not the inside of the skins.
> Is everyone else doing the inside of the skins also?
> The 4 step process includes hand polishing, acid
> etching, conversion coating, and then the paint. Is
> there something easier than this? With all the water
> washing it takes me a whole day to do the process on
> what seems like just a handfull of interior parts.
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | RE: My first mistake |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Mike,
Having almost finished my airframe, I have
worried about this mistake or that - I have made many.
We have a full time A&P that maintains our planes at
work, and I am amazed at some of the things he does to
repair aircraft I would never do that are perfectly
legal, acceptable, and safe. I think you will find
that your standards, and the standards of MOST of the
guys on this list are well above the acceptable
standards for professionals. Homebuilder's knowledge
level is often lower, but they are certainly not the
perfectionists that we are.
And yes, the mechanic is also a pilot, and flies
the planes he maintains fairly often.
R/
Brandon Tucker
Painting tail
do not archive
__________________________________
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: RE: RE: Hole Finder |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
And please add do not archive to the comments that don't add to the
technical assist.
It's getting difficult to sort thru these that don't.
Larry McFarland
do not archive
Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers" <wayne@engravers.net>
>
>Tommy,
>
>If you want to "Pay If Forward" you have to do it BEFORE you start asking
>for information. Now you can only "Pay It Back."
>
>Wayne
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>To: <Zenith-List@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: RE: RE: Hole Finder
>
>
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>>
>>Thanks folks. I overlook the obvious answers to problems. I really
>>appreciate the responses I got both on and off list.
>>
>>Hopefully at some point I will be able to "Pay It Forward."
>>
>>Tommy Walker in Alabama
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| From: | "Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers" <wayne@engravers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RE: Hole Finder |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers" <wayne@engravers.net>
Larry,
Sorry, I forgot.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: RE: Hole Finder
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> And please add do not archive to the comments that don't add to the
> technical assist.
> It's getting difficult to sort thru these that don't.
>
> Larry McFarland
> do not archive
>
> Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers wrote:
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers"
>><wayne@engravers.net>
>>
>>Tommy,
>>
>>If you want to "Pay If Forward" you have to do it BEFORE you start asking
>>for information. Now you can only "Pay It Back."
>>
>>Wayne
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>>To: <Zenith-List@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Zenith-List: RE: RE: Hole Finder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>>>
>>>Thanks folks. I overlook the obvious answers to problems. I really
>>>appreciate the responses I got both on and off list.
>>>
>>>Hopefully at some point I will be able to "Pay It Forward."
>>>
>>>Tommy Walker in Alabama
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 28
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
Stan,
This is very bad - I don't know what you were doing when the spinner failed
and caused the prop to come un-together, but this is serious. Please share
the details - spinner brands, material of construction, front and rear
support plates or rear only, mode of failure, etc. From what I read and
hear, the spinner is probably the most failure prone part of the prop system
and you seem to be able to consistently reproduce a failure mode - let us in
on the secret!
Paul Moore
XL O-200
-----Original Message-----
From: Stanley Challgren
Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru Spinner
I have had three spinners on my 3300 and two of them failed in flight.
Stan
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Interior Primer Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZMAN601XL@aol.com
I had the same problem as Brian with the $8.00 a cans of "aircraft
primer".After a few squirts it would clog up.At That price it does not take long
to
explore other options.I looked around and now use a primer that works great,
hasn't clogged yet,and is $3.25 a can.It's Krylon rust inhibitor(green).The number
is KYL S00344.The can says it Meets or exceeds the requirements of MIL
TTP-1757,and it's for use on aluminum,magnesium,and steel.I had to go to an
industrial supply store to purchase the primer,the local stores usually do not
stock
it.
Bob Haring
CH601XL(sort of a semi-lurker)but learning a lot from this great site!
Message 30
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Lamoree" <zenithlist@randomminds.com>
There have been a whole bunch of questions reguarding my 601XL... so I'm answering
everyone directly and to this list to try and answer those questions:
The Serial Number is 5474
The kit consists of:
Tail Kit
Complete Airframe Kit
Drawings and Manuals
Aeroflash Light System with Tail Light and fiberglass rudder mount
Landing Light Kit
Recessed Elec. Aileron Trim Tab
XL Fiberglass Main Wheel Fairings
XL Fiberglass Nose Wheel Fairings
Wing Locker baggage option
Cortec Primer (2 qts)
1/8" Clecos
5/32" Clecos
3/32" Clecos
15 #30 Drill Bits
15 #20 Drill Bits
Hand Riveter w/Custom Heads
Pneumatic Hand Riveter w/Pressure Regulator
Cleco Pliers
Left & Right Sheet Metal Snips
For a grand purchase price (I paid) of 18036.35
The purchase price (for you) will be 17000.00 (OBO)
I'll ship anywhere, however, you can save a BUNCH of money if you were to pick
it up. The purchaser will be responsible for boxing and shipping costs.
--
--------------------------
Greg Lamoree
Zodiac 601 XL
www.GregsPlane.com
--------------------------
--
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Interior Primer Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick <n701rr@yahoo.com>
I have tried both Zinc Oxide and Zinc Chromate from ACSpruce. Indeed, the Zinc
Oxide always clogged up...every flippin can. Sometimes maybe 1/2 through, sometimes
1/4 into it. I went back to Zinc Chromate. I have never had a problem
with it. ACS even gave me credit for 6 cans of the Oxide and sent me 6 cans
of the Zinc Chromate free. Good folks to deal with.
Do not archive....
ZMAN601XL@aol.com wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZMAN601XL@aol.com
I had the same problem as Brian with the $8.00 a cans of "aircraft
primer".
Rick
Orlando, FL. USA
http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html
Message 32
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
"Mach 2 Prevention" coming from a 701 builder !!! Now that's priceless
!!
Thanks for the giggle....
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zed Smith
Subject: Zenith-List: Errors
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
do not archive
Using an A5 where an A4 was originally intended is not always a mistake.
Sometimes the A5 is placed at random locations for various valid
reasons, including:
Temperature compensation,
Asymmetrical imbalance,
Mach 2 prevention,
Rivet puller tests,
DAR vision test,
Unavailability of an A4 at the moment,
Hole was too large for an A4,
and, best of all,
It is a lot less expensive than replacement parts.
Only when the hole grows to the point that a 4' x 12' sheet won't cover
it is there cause for concern.
A small, very small, number of builders on this list have made
mistakes.....everybody else is making improvements.
Enjoy!
Zed/701/R912/90+%
forecast high for today: 80 degrees F
Message 33
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison" <perrymorrison@yahoo.com>
Grant,
You're probably right about a smaller prop and cruise performance. I remember flying
a sonerai with a 70hp VW engine that did 120 knots while my 80hp HD only
gets 85 knots. The little prop did well in cruise but the t/o and climb were
unbelievably bad. Even an a cold day with a stiff headwind it was appalling. The
other consideration is that I dunno about other HDs but mine definitely feels
like it doesn't want to be above 90 knots. Just gets rattlie and feels wrong.
A local with a HDS that went no faster than my HD put a CS prop on and only got
another 10 knots.
I'd rather enjoy the STOL and climb. The critical time for an EFATO is also much
less.
Perry Morrison
After watching this list for many years, I'm realizing that there are not
THAT many things we can do to clean up an aircraft with such a FAT wing! ;-)
Chris Heinz addressed this with the XL by using a different 'less-deep' wing
section.
I'm beginning to think that the propellor is something to consider to get
more performance on the HDS. I recently 'drove' Art Mitchell's XL with a
constant speed prop and the difference it makes is eye-opening. Also, one
of the Mikes on this list (FRND?) uses a shorter prop, and along with some
other mods, he's one of the faster HDSs (I think.)...
I think 2 things happen with props that keep down our 'average' top speeds.
1/ we buy too large a diameter prop, then we can't 'drive' it in high gear
(course pitch).... I liked what 18 degress pitch was doing for my plane
cruise-wise - it seemed to be pulling hard against the drag to give another
5 mph etc.. but the engine seemed to be 'lugging' sometimes. So I backed
the pitch off to 16.5... But what if I chopped the diameter down to 68" and
put the pitch back up to 18? Now the engine should be able to turn more
easily, and still take those 'bigger bites' into the air. Takeoff roll
might increase but...
2/ Which brings me to the second thing. I LOVE the acceleration and
climbout of my little Zodie, but what is this costing me at the cruise end?
If I recall the C-150 (a great little airplane for other reasons!), and
other manufactured airplanes, they take significantly more takeoff roll, in
return for better crusise performance. And when I was flying those
airplanes, it didn't bother me. I don't work from short or high fields
(like you do), so why don't I give up a couple hundred feet of t/o roll for
better cruise speed? Likewise with climbout. It's nothing to get only
400fpm from a Cessna on a hot day, but if I only got that much from my zodie
i'd be seriously concerned. So maybe again, I can AFFORD to move the
compromise a little towards cruise performance. Then perhaps any other
'clean up' issues I address will actually convert to more airspeed??
Anyways, that's what I'm thinking these days wrt to speed. That and
wondering how one of those Woodcomp constant speed props would fit on my
CAM100!! ha ha $$$$$..
best,
Grant Corriveau
__________________________
Dr. Perry Morrison
Morrison Associates Pty Ltd
0408892638
perrymorrison@yahoo.com
__________________________
Message 34
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Hey guys. Check this out. This is a cool site. Click on one of the airports
to see radar traffic. You can zoom in and out 5-80 miles and watch 757's
make approaches into LGA or LAX. I think this is on a time delay so it's not
real-time but still cool.
http://www.passur.com/sites.htm
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered;Plansbuilding.
Empenage done; working on wings.
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