---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/05/05: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:12 AM - Jabiru starting procedure (charles.long@gm.com) 2. 06:25 AM - Re: mulloy/sagerser/halsell 701 (David Barth) 3. 06:52 AM - 701 longerons .093 extrus. (Peter Dolamore) 4. 07:00 AM - Re: 701 longerons .093 extrus. (Carlos Sa) 5. 07:01 AM - Re: 701 longerons .093 extrus. (N5SL) 6. 07:14 AM - Re: 701 longerons .093 extrus. (Mark Townsend) 7. 09:54 AM - Electrical Diagrams (Don Mountain) 8. 11:24 AM - Re: Jabiru starting procedure (Chuck Deiterich) 9. 11:31 AM - Fw: actual weights... (Leo Gates) 10. 12:38 PM - Electronic Circuit Breaker Panel (Don Mountain) 11. 12:58 PM - Re: Electronic Circuit Breaker Panel (Lance Gingell) 12. 01:54 PM - Sharpie (george may) 13. 03:12 PM - Re: Electronic Circuit Breaker Panel (Craig Payne) 14. 04:50 PM - Re: Sharpie (n801bh@netzero.com) 15. 06:46 PM - Re: Electronic Circuit Breaker Panel (Cdngoose) 16. 07:31 PM - Landing Light Lens (Blair, Heath) 17. 08:36 PM - Re: Landing Light Lens (Mike) 18. 09:08 PM - Re: Landing Light Lens (Cdngoose) 19. 10:37 PM - Re: Sharpie (Graham Kirby) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:14 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru starting procedure From: charles.long@gm.com 20, 2004) at 04/05/2005 09:10:17 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com I ended up turing the engine over manually 8-10 times with the mags off, throttle at idle, and choke on. This allowed fuel into the cylinders. The choke doesn't work with the throttle above idle which I wasn't aware of. Kept trying to start it with throttle advanced which was most of my problem. On the actual startup I used full choke, then gradually reduced the choke as the engine started to warm up. Also needed to increase the idle speed a tad so engine wouldn't die after choke was released. Thanks to Jeff Small for providing this useful information. Time: 09:10:47 AM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru Engine won't start --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Hi Chuck, Don't keep us in suspense. What did you do to it to get it to start? Chuck D. do not archive "Jeff Small" on 03/22/2005 11:48:21 AM cc: Subject: 3300 start Chuck, Close throttle completely. Pull choke (starting circuit) on completely. Run boost pump (if you have it) or one wing pump for about six to eight seconds. Turn off. Making sure mags are off pull prop through eight to ten turns. Hit the start button/position/switch. Make sure the idle mixture needle on the bottom of the Bing is out 1 1/4 turns. Mine wasn't. My 3300 came to life on the second blade after sitting two years. I do not use the boost pump in the pattern any more - only for staring and as a backup for the mechanical. regards jeff ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:28 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: mulloy/sagerser/halsell 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth Oh NO! Does this mean that building/flying a Zenith HAS become rocket science? ;o) Definitely do not archive Hal Rozema wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema Sorry guys, My earlier e-mail concerning the new owner of this 701 was in error. Actually he has had 5 space missions (3 as commander) and will do his next mission in 2006. See his autobiography at this link: http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/halsell.html David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? Working on Wings www.ch601.org --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:57 AM PST US From: "Peter Dolamore" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 longerons .093 extrus. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Dolamore" Now that I'm about ready to start on the 701 fuselage I seem to remember that ZAC OK'd the use of .093 6061 angle in place of the .040 formed longerons. The .093 extrusion seems to be pretty elusive stuff as far as I can see. Does anyone know of a supplier in Canada ( Ontario ) or close to the border with the US ? Peter - 701 wings 90 %, tail 90 %, 110 % to go. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:32 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 longerons .093 extrus. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa I have been using 0.125" where the plans call for .093". Carlos CH601 HD, plans do not archive --- Peter Dolamore wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Dolamore" > > Now that I'm about ready to start on the 701 fuselage I seem to remember > that ZAC OK'd the use of .093 6061 angle in place of the .040 formed > longerons. The .093 extrusion seems to be pretty elusive stuff as far as I > can see. Does anyone know of a supplier in Canada ( Ontario ) or close to > the border with the US ? > Peter - 701 wings 90 %, tail 90 %, 110 % to go. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:41 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 longerons .093 extrus. --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Hi Peter: I'm building a 601XL, so I don't know how your fuselage goes together, but I built mine with 3/4"X3/4"X1/8" 6061 extruded angle. It is strong, plentiful and cheap and it comes in 20' lengths. I used A5 rivets since the 1/8" extrusion is much thicker. I hope this is helpful to you. Scott Laughlin N5SL (reserved) www.cooknwithgas.com Making Probes, Working on Instruments Peter Dolamore wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Dolamore" Now that I'm about ready to start on the 701 fuselage I seem to remember that ZAC OK'd the use of .093 6061 angle in place of the .040 formed longerons. The .093 extrusion seems to be pretty elusive stuff as far as I can see. Does anyone know of a supplier in Canada ( Ontario ) or close to the border with the US ? Peter - 701 wings 90 %, tail 90 %, 110 % to go. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:12 AM PST US From: "Mark Townsend" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 longerons .093 extrus. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Townsend" <601xl@sympatico.ca> I have talked to Chris about this and he Ok'ed me to use .0125 in place of the .090 and to use extruded .060 in place of the formed .040 longeron. I plan on taking this approach with my 701. Mark Alma, Ontario ----- Original Message ----- > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Dolamore" > > Now that I'm about ready to start on the 701 fuselage I seem to remember > that ZAC OK'd the use of .093 6061 angle in place of the .040 formed > longerons. The .093 extrusion seems to be pretty elusive stuff as far as I > can see. Does anyone know of a supplier in Canada ( Ontario ) or close to > the border with the US ? > Peter - 701 wings 90 %, tail 90 %, 110 % to go. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:50 AM PST US From: Don Mountain Subject: Zenith-List: Electrical Diagrams --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain Charles, Thank you very much for the electrical diagrams and pictures of your panel. This gives me a really big start on designing and diagramming my own electrical system. The drawings looked good in my AutoCad 2000 that I use for design work. Now for my modifications to include my all electric panel with the Dynon A10's and electronic circuit breakers. Plus maybe a cigar lighter to run my electric shaver. Don Mountain 601 XL tail done, wings under construction __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:24:51 AM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru starting procedure --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Chuck, That has always worked for me too on my Jab 2200, especially when it is cool, not like on a Cessna. Chuck D. N701TX Jabiru 220 do not archive > --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com > > I ended up turing the engine over manually 8-10 times with the mags > off, throttle at idle, and choke on. This allowed fuel into the cylinders. > The choke doesn't work with the throttle above idle which I wasn't aware > of. Kept trying to start it with throttle advanced which was most of my > problem. On the actual startup I used full choke, then gradually reduced > the choke as the engine started to warm up. Also needed to increase the > idle speed a tad so engine wouldn't die after choke was released. Thanks > to Jeff Small for providing this useful information. > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:13 AM PST US From: "Leo Gates" Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: actual weights... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Gates" Donald sent this to me, but intended it for the list - so here it is Leo Gates -------Original Message------- From: donald mcarthur Subject: actual weights... congratulations, Mr. Gates...i am jealous for me and totally happy for you.. one day, maybe it'll be my turn to pass out the cigars...until then, i can only imagine the thrill and smile for you... your post brings an interesting question...you said your baby weighs 674 lbs empty, with the 912 engine...the specification sheet for the HDS model on the Zenith website shows empty weight of the HDS with 912 to be 590 lbs, with a (*)...84 lbs lighter... makes me wonder if the weights of the finished///new a/c of most builders is considerably over as well... makes me wonder what i might actually expect from the XL model i wish to build, weight-wise...the website is publishing an empty weight of 800 lbs for the XL with an O-235... considerably more than their published weight for that model with the small auto conversion engines...for those of us who are larger than most folks it could make a very real difference if the actual weight is gonna end up being considerably heavier...if ya think yer airplane is gonna weight in the vicinity of 800 pounds, and try to keep it light, but its actually gonna be closer to 900, then that isnt good because it doesnt leave much room on the top end for useable... so, i am hoping that the considerable talent here might tell us their::: a. model... b. configuration///equipment at weigh-in... c. actual weight, empty... i would consider this to be some usefull information for those of us who are behind you guys, and give some valuable insight into what we might actually expect, vs. info that may not be such a reliable guideline...i would even say it is important to know... finally, if anyone has, or knows of someone who has an XL model with an 0-235, i would appreciate knowing their configuration, actual empty weight, and performance... because of my individual size, it seems that the torque of the larger C.ID. and power at lower RPM, might do me a better job because i will be nearing published gross, even flying single...IF i ever get to build one in the first place, that is... thank you's to those who respond... donald ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:19 PM PST US From: Don Mountain Subject: Zenith-List: Electronic Circuit Breaker Panel --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain In designing my electrical system for a 601 XL, I was looking for something more modern than fuses or circuit breakers. Someone in the past mentioned a company that sells an electronic circuit breaker panel for aircraft. Does anybody have this company's web page or might have used one and have recommendations? __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:14 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Electronic Circuit Breaker Panel From: "Lance Gingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" Don, That would be Control Vision's EXPBUS. Aircraft Spruce sell a couple of versions of it, as does Vans. www.anywheremap.com is Control Visions's site, look under avionics. There's some PDF brochures on the site. I'm considering using it myself. ..lance http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Mountain Subject: Zenith-List: Electronic Circuit Breaker Panel --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain In designing my electrical system for a 601 XL, I was looking for something more modern than fuses or circuit breakers. Someone in the past mentioned a company that sells an electronic circuit breaker panel for aircraft. Does anybody have this company's web page or might have used one and have recommendations? __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:02 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: Zenith-List: Sharpie --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" All-- For all those that are using very fine point Sharpie markers, you might be interested in a similar maker put out by BIC. This is the first time I've seen them. I bought a three pack of them and have been using them for a few days. They are less expensive.--($1.64 at Walmart for the 3 pack with a mail in rebate for $1.64). Also the cap doesn't keep falling off when I'm using them. They are called Mark It George May 601XL On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:15 PM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Electronic Circuit Breaker Panel --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne If you want to read some arguments for fuses and against breakers: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/fuseorcb.html A link to the manual for the EXP-bus http://support.anywheremap.com/pdfs/expman.pdf Also some comments on the EXP-Bus: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusad.html http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusthd.html Given a crowded panel with too much junk on it and 15 circuits I want to protect I'm going with fuses. -- Craig Don Mountain wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain > > In designing my electrical system for a 601 XL, I was > looking for something more modern than fuses or > circuit breakers. Someone in the past mentioned a > company that sells an electronic circuit breaker panel > for aircraft. Does anybody have this company's web > page or might have used one and have recommendations? > > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:13 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sharpie --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" maker put out by BIC. This is the first time I've seen them. I bought a three pack of them and have been using them for a few days. They are less expensive.--($1.64 at Walmart for the 3 pack with a mail in rebate for $1.64). Also the cap doesn't keep falling off when I'm using them. They are called Mark It George May 601XL Yeah, Now you tell me after my 801 is all built. I did buy boxes of Sharpies and spread them all around the work table. What I want to know is why every time I needed one there was none to be seen. Gotta be bad karma I guess. The only Sharpies that gave me a problem with the cap falling off was the ultra fine point, the rest were not bad. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:02 PM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Electronic Circuit Breaker Panel --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Craig, I'm sorry but this is the same argument as the auto engine over the lycosaurious. Each builder has there own comfort level, I will be making my own power center with rf filters and capacitors and with circuit breakers. I'm also going to add that I'm also not crazy about the exp bus This post is not to create an argument but to point out different people can have different ideas. Also though I respect Bob and his ideas from the aeroelectric site he is not the all knowing god of electrical systems, but he is close. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751 President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com do not archive -----Original Message----- --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne If you want to read some arguments for fuses and against breakers: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/fuseorcb.html A link to the manual for the EXP-bus http://support.anywheremap.com/pdfs/expman.pdf Also some comments on the EXP-Bus: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusad.html http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusthd.html Given a crowded panel with too much junk on it and 15 circuits I want to protect I'm going with fuses. -- Craig Don Mountain wrote: ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:23 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Landing Light Lens From: "Blair, Heath" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Blair, Heath" I have cracked my acrylic landing light lens from Zenith. I got the holes to close to the outer edge and while opening the holes the lens cracked about 4 inches. What is the best method of opening these holes? Special drill bit? Could I buy plexy glass 1/8" thick and mold this to the wing using a heat gun? If so would the heat from the lights be to hot and melt the plastic? I know this has to be in the archives somewhere but I would rather have a fresh opinion. Here is the progress... http://flyultralites.com/project29.html Thanks, Heath Blair N601XC ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:25 PM PST US From: "Mike" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Landing Light Lens --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike" > What is the best method of opening these holes? Special drill bit? There are special drill bits designed for plexiglass-type materials. Or, a unitbit works pretty well. > Could I buy plexy glass 1/8" thick and mold this to the wing using a > heat gun? If so would the heat from the lights be to hot and melt the > plastic? I made a mock-up form of the leading edge of the wing out of wood & cardboard (only big enough to be a little larger than the lens I was making). Then I balanced the appropriate sized piece of plastic on top, and put the whole thing in the oven on fairly low heat. After a while, the plastic started to soften and with oven mitts, I was able to press the lens around the form until it would take its shape. Pop it out of the oven, let it cool, and voila. I doubt the landing lights would be hot enough to deform given the distance from the lamps to the lens. Mike Fortunato 601XL Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:26 PM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Landing Light Lens --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> David did a similar process to our lenses as well, I'm sure he has pictures, hopefully he will have time to post the process on www.ch601.org tomorrow. But with all the arrangements were working on for the Sun-N-Fun BBQ it may have to wait till we get back. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751 President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com do not archive -----Original Message----- --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike" > What is the best method of opening these holes? Special drill bit? There are special drill bits designed for plexiglass-type materials. Or, a unitbit works pretty well. > Could I buy plexy glass 1/8" thick and mold this to the wing using a > heat gun? If so would the heat from the lights be to hot and melt the > plastic? I made a mock-up form of the leading edge of the wing out of wood & cardboard (only big enough to be a little larger than the lens I was making). Then I balanced the appropriate sized piece of plastic on top, and put the whole thing in the oven on fairly low heat. After a while, the plastic started to soften and with oven mitts, I was able to press the lens around the form until it would take its shape. Pop it out of the oven, let it cool, and voila. I doubt the landing lights would be hot enough to deform given the distance from the lamps to the lens. Mike Fortunato 601XL Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:40 PM PST US From: "Graham Kirby" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sharpie --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" While on the topic of Sharpies, I had been throwing a lot of the ultra-fine ones out thinking that they had dried up prematurely but now I've found that wiping the tips against a piece of scrap softwood usually restores them. The tips seem to accumulate an oily/waxy deposit from the bare metal. I've never had this problem with other sharpies, just the ultra-fine ones. Graham Kirby 601HD