---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/17/05:12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:17 AM - Re: Aluminum extrusion (Larry Martin) 2. 07:17 AM - Re: Rivets (pounding or squeezing) (RURUNY@aol.com) 3. 07:17 AM - Re: Fuel fitting leaks, Pipe thread sealant (Larry Martin) 4. 08:33 AM - Re: [Please Read] Matronics Email Server Upgrade... (Richard Hutson) 5. 09:29 AM - Re: Re: Possible group Insurance for 601XXX Owners (John Karnes) 6. 03:24 PM - Horiz Stab Question (Joe Kerr) 7. 03:41 PM - 3300 downthrust (Jeff Small) 8. 06:09 PM - Re: Horiz Stab Question (Don Mountain) 9. 06:16 PM - Engines for 601 XL (Don Mountain) 10. 06:34 PM - stabilizer front attach points (Brad Cohen) 11. 08:47 PM - stabilizer front attach points (Joe Kerr) 12. 09:33 PM - [Please Read] Matronics Email Server Upgrade Complete! (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:17 AM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aluminum extrusion --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" Since you are in Canada, you might check with the PegaStol people. My PegaStol wings came with extruded struts, I don't know what grade they are, but they ain't going anywhere. Larry, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "N5SL" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aluminum extrusion > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL > > Hi Peter: > > I assume you are talking about extruded angle. Here in the States we have to cut and bend .063 sheet or just use the 1/8" X 1/8" 6061-T6. I chose to use the 1/8" angle on my 601XL. It's very strong and adds very little weight. You should be able to find 1/8" angle by the boatload in Canada. > > Good luck, > > Scott Laughlin > N5SL (reserved) > www.cooknwithgas.com > Wishing I was in Lakeland, Florida today. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Peter Dolamore wrote: > Does ANYONE on the list know where I can get 3/4 x 3/4 x > .062 6061 T6 extrusion in Ontario, > > --------------------------------- > > > -- > > -- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:17 AM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rivets (pounding or squeezing) --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com Keith, I used a hand squeezer on all the trailing edges of wings, slats, flaperons, elevator. Its advantage is consistancy. Once the squeezer is set up for proper amount of squeeze every rivet will be exactly the same which is great for looks. Its also much quicker than pulling rivets. I clecoed every other hole and dropped a solid rivet in every other hole, squeezing took less than 3 minutes. This works great with the normal yoke provided with a hand squeezer, the spar might take a much bigger yoke which is much bigger bucks. A pneumatic riveter will come in handy when you do the flaperon and elevator bellcranks. Brian What are the advantages/disadvantages of either pounding rivets or using a squeezer, as I am getting ready to build my spars (CH701). ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:17 AM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel fitting leaks, Pipe thread sealant --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" Loctite 592 is what you need, it is a Teflon based sealant made for the job. Larry, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel fitting leaks, Pipe thread sealant > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > I think pro seal is not really intended for threads. > > I used teflon based thread sealant for plumbing fixtures from the > hardware store (says it works with all fuels). Never had a leak in 6 > years. > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > ruruny@aol.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel fitting leaks, Pipe thread sealant > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ruruny@aol.com > > Recently I made a post that Permatex high temperature thread sealant > worked on sealing the threads for the fingerscreen and the hose nipple > that screws into the fingerscreen. I take it back and hope no one has > used this stuff. I leaked checked both tanks for my left wing this week > by simply filling them up full with gas and letting them sit for a > while. I > > > -- > > -- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:16 AM PST US From: "Richard Hutson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [Please Read] Matronics Email Server Upgrade... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" I second the best of luck, Matt Subject: Zenith-List: [Please Read] Matronics Email Server Upgrade... > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:20 AM PST US From: "John Karnes" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Possible group Insurance for 601XXX Owners Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 09:25:52 -0700 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes" Please put my name on your list. thanks. John Karnes N601JK ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeffrey Glasserow To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:43 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Possible group Insurance for 601XXX Owners --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Glasserow" > Given the fact that many in this group are at Sun & Fun this wekk I'll post this next week as well. If you're interested in participating in a group insurance scheme, send me a note and I'll put your name on a list. Once I get a sizable list together I'll approach a few of the big underwriters to see if they're interested in writing a group policy. Jeff Glasserow Ch 601 HDS N6384E ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:26 PM PST US From: "Joe Kerr" Subject: Zenith-List: Horiz Stab Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Kerr" A couple of builders have noted on their web sites that the ends of the horizontal stab are bowed inward slightly because the four center-most ribs are installed on top of the spar doublers, but the doubler does not extend all the way to the end of the spar. This leaves the third rib from the center on each side drawing the spar inward because it is not installed on top of spar doublers, so the fore-aft span is shorter. The rivet line of the skin needs to take this into consideration or else the rivets may end up too close to the spar flange bend, if I understand the problem correctly. I am just wondering how many of you altered your rivet line to account for the slight bowing of the spar, OR have any of you inserted a shim between the ribs or spar, OR is it really no big deal either way and you ignored the bow and all the rivet placements worked even with a straight rivet line? -Joe ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:06 PM PST US From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Zenith-List: 3300 downthrust Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:38:26 -0400 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" Jim, I have just hung my engine on my 601XL. It is nose down by 2 degrees when measured between the top of the engine and the lingering. Is that normal? +++ Very normal. If you want to get rid of some AFTER test flights you can make C-shaped washers out of .063 or .090 aluminum and slip 'em in between the bottom mount pads and the firewall. You won't have to disassemble anything, just loosen the bottom nuts. Make them a bit bigger than the engine mount pads and safety 'em. +++ This is another "cure" for you guys who think you have to realign the stab because you need a bit too much up trim (in cruise) as it takes out a bit of the downthrust. regards jeff HDS/3300 235 hours ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:33 PM PST US From: Don Mountain Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Horiz Stab Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain I am not sure if this is the same problem, but I had a similar problem with the rear spar bowing in when I strapped the skin down with the blocks on the rear spar to keep the straps from bending down the skin. The force on these blocks buckled the ribs out of line, and bowed the rear spar. So what I did was cut blocks of wood that just fit inside the ribs on each side, and gave the correct spacing from the front to rear spars. I bolted these through holes already drilled in the ribs to clamp the rib webs straight. Then I strapped the skin down and the webs of the ribs didn't buckle, maintaining the spar spacing with the straps in place. And everything on my stabilizer drilled and clamped up straight. Don 601 XL tail done, working on wings. > A couple of builders have noted on their web sites > that the ends of the horizontal stab are bowed > inward slightly because the four center-most ribs > are installed on top of the spar doublers, but the > doubler does not extend all the way to the end of > the spar. This leaves the third rib from the center > on each side drawing the spar inward because it is > not installed on top of spar doublers, so the > fore-aft span is shorter. __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:08 PM PST US From: Don Mountain Subject: Zenith-List: Engines for 601 XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain I am working on the wings of my 601 XL, and starting to think about engines. Flying a Piper Cherokee with a Lycoming that looks like an antique out of the dark ages, I have been thinking of something a little more modern. I know a lot of people have tried various car engines, like Volkswagon, Corvair, Sabaru, and a few others. And of course the non-certified airplane engines from Jabaru and Rotax. All of these seem either expensive, old or exotic here in the midwestern United States. The designs for the Volkswagon and Corvair engines are more than 30 years old now, so I consider that rather antique. So the question is, has anybody tried something a little more common and modern in design for their airplane. Something designed and built within the last 5 years, but common enough to be easy to get and still get parts at the local dealer? I was looking at the engine in my wife's 2003 Chevrolet Cavalier the other day, and wondered if anybody had tried one of those. Its a double overhead cam engine, thats all aluminum, and fuel injected that takes regular fuel and seems to run real good and smooth. And it looks pretty lightweight. Probably some of the other manufactures have similar engines that are plentiful in the junk yards or from a dealer brand new. I wonder what kind of design problem there would be installing one of these in a plane? It would be nice to use the same oil filter in the car and plane. Or if I needed spare parts, I could borrow them from my wife's car? Don 601 XL tail done, working on wings ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:45 PM PST US From: "Brad Cohen" Subject: Zenith-List: stabilizer front attach points Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:31:49 -0400 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" I just made the first (of many) mistakes on the stabilzer and I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar problem; I measured the 233mm measurement for the front spar attachment, cut the plywood blank and mounted both pieces of 6t2-2. Once I drilled the holes for both 6t2-2 I realized that those rivet holes were too close to the inside bend radius of 6t2-2 which put the corresponding rivets in 6t2-1 right next to the edge, which of course was much less than the specified 10mm for edge distance. I will order new 6t2-2 fron ZAC but I don't know where I measured incorrectly. I rechecked the plywood blank and it is indeed 233mm. I remeasured the placement of both 6t2-1 and 6t2-2 without the plywood (I measured both equidistant fron centerline and also from the end of the spar itself) and I think I have it about right now, the edge distance on 6t2-1 is now ~8-9mm and almost the same for 6t2-2. how accurate does this measurement have to be? I am +/- 1-1.5 mm as it is now, before adding the new pieces which I will order this week. Any thoughts? has anyone else had similar problems with spacing of the front attach points or am I just going nuts???? Do not archive Brad Cohen 6-5803 N969BC (reserved) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:48 PM PST US From: "Joe Kerr" Subject: Zenith-List: stabilizer front attach points --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Kerr" Brad- I mounted 6T2-1 and 6T2-2 two weeks ago and didn't run into the same problem. I have 8mm edge distance on 6T2-2 and 10mm on 6T2-1. The 233mm wooden spacer is a recent plans revision (2/05), the plans from 12/04 call for a wooden spacer of 219mm. If you have a pre-drilled spar, perhaps you have the earlier version that is drilled for the 12/04 spacing. Joseph Kerr #5860 Reno, NV ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:31 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: [Please Read] Matronics Email Server Upgrade Complete! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle 9:24pm PDT 4/17/2005 Dear Listers, The upgrade of the Matronics Email Server can be considered complete at this time. All known issues related to the upgrade process have been resolved and email services are running normal. The Nightly Digest processing has not yet been tested and will wait for tonight's update. If you encounter any odd behavior with respect to the Matronics Email Server over the next few days, please contact me via email at dralle@matronics.com or if that fails try dralle@speakeasy.net. Thanks to everyone for being patient through this arduous process of a major system upgrade! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator At 12:37 PM 4/16/2005 Saturday, Matt Dralle wrote: >Dear Listers, > >I will be upgrading the Matronics Email Server this weekend. This >includes some hardware improvements - more memory, faster, more capable >processors - as well as a complete operating system upgrade from >scratch. I hope to have both the old system and the new system running at >the same time to minimize the actual impact of the upgrade. > >Hopefully there will be little actual downtime during the transition, but >a few posts may get lost in the shuffle. If you don't see your post show >up on the List in the normal amount of time (plus a little bit), then >please just try posting it again. > >Upgrading the Matronics Email Server operating system (from Redhat Linux >7.2 to Redhat Linux WS 4) is a sizeable undertaking and requires a great >deal of work to port all of the utilities, programs, and scripts over to >the new system. As I've already mentioned, both the old and new systems >will be on line at the same time, so interruption should be held to an >absolute minimal. You might see a couple of odd test messages during the >cut-over or other odd messages; please just ignore them. > >I have setup a new System Status Web Page that I will use to update List >Members on the current status of the email and web systems. Please refer >to it as often as you like: > > http://www.matronics.com/SystemStatus/ > > >Thank you for your continued support of the List Services at >Matronics! Its your yearly Contributions that make these major upgrades >possible! > >Best regards, > >Matt Dralle >Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft