Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:31 AM - Re: ELTs in the future (Don Mountain)
2. 06:09 AM - Re: Engines for 601 XL (Don Mountain)
3. 06:29 AM - Jabiru 3300 Dual Exhaust (Bill Bartlett)
4. 09:48 AM - COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) (Lance Gingell)
5. 10:34 AM - Re: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) (MElrod3732@aol.com)
6. 10:47 AM - Re: Rivets (pounding or squeezing) (David Barth)
7. 11:01 AM - Re: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) (Lance Gingell)
8. 11:54 AM - Corvairs reign at Sun 'N Fun (Ozarkseller2@aol.com)
9. 03:04 PM - Re: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) (Bill Bartlett)
10. 04:16 PM - Re: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) (Mike Fothergill)
11. 06:40 PM - Re: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) (Bill Bartlett)
12. 07:38 PM - Re: Engines for 601 XL (Chris Boultinghouse)
13. 07:58 PM - Re: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) (Lance Gingell)
14. 10:39 PM - Re: Re: Possible group Insurance for 601XXX Owners (NYTerminat@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: ELTs in the future |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Thanks Craig. With the new requirements here in 2009
(only 4 years away) I think this unit would be money
well spent this summer when I hope to be finishing up
my 601 XL. And $1000 doesn't seem to be too high
considering what else we have to have. And it
transmits both on the old and new frequencies, so we
would be covered any way you look at it. With
electronics evolving so fast, I would hate to buy
something I know is being phased out in just 4 years
for a new plane.
Don
601 XL
tail, ailerons, and flaps done, working on wings
> This link originally said "Available April 2005".
> Now it says June.
> Price is "about $1000".
>
> http://www.artex.net/me406.html
>
> -- Craig
__________________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engines for 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Thanks Craig. I had looked through the information
you sent below already, and thats what brought up the
question about using a more common American made
engine like the General Motors twin cam, fuel
injected, all aluminum, 2.2 liter Ecotec engine like
in the Chevy Cavalier and millions of other GM cars.
We happen to have Chevy Cavaliers in the family going
all the way back to 1987, and I can still walk into
almost any auto parts dealer and get a lot of parts
for it off the shelf. And they are cheap. I just
wondered why others are concentrating their engine
development efforts on less available engines from
other countries with less availability of parts,
higher costs for parts, and the engines themselves are
not real common.
Don
601 XL
tail, flaps, ailerons done, working on wings
> www.ch601.org/engines.htm
>
> Among some of the engines you might not have
> considered are:
>
> www.hog-air.com
> www.firewall.ca/main.html
> www.raven-rotor.com/
> nessaaircraft.net/enginesFrame1Source1.htm
__________________________________
Message 3
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| Subject: | Jabiru 3300 Dual Exhaust |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Bartlett" <bbartlett5@satx.rr.com>
I have a Jabiru 3300 equipped with a "cross-over" muffler connecting the
two exhaust pipes. A friend has the same muffler and has had problems
with the MIG welding. MIG welding did not hold and he had it TIG welded.
Problems come about when the new welding is not exact and the two
exhaust pipes are not perfectly aligned.
So, I was considering a dual exhaust system with each exhaust pipe
connected to it's own muffler. Has anyone any experience with a dual
exhaust system for the Jabiru 3300?
Bill,
N140BB, 601XL, Dual Sticks, Tri Gear, Wheel Fairings, Wing Lockers, Aux
Tanks, All Electric w/Blue Mountain-Lite, Audio Panel, Garmin SL-30 &
ICOM Radios, Reddish Stall Warning, Jabiru 3300.
Message 4
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| Subject: | COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Bill,
I notice you have "Garmin SL-30 & ICOM Radios". I'm considering an A200
or an SL30. Seems that the ICOM A200 is $725USD and the SL30 is around
~$1300USD.
I really like the look of the Garmin and its standy monitor, but is it
really worth that much over the ICOM?
Do you have any wisdom/opinions as someone who's "been there"
Cheers,
..lance (still curious about the Blue Mountain...)
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
--------------------------------
Bill,
N140BB, 601XL, Dual Sticks, Tri Gear, Wheel Fairings, Wing Lockers, Aux
Tanks, All Electric w/Blue Mountain-Lite, Audio Panel, Garmin SL-30 &
ICOM Radios, Reddish Stall Warning, Jabiru 3300.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MElrod3732@aol.com
Hi Bill: I am about to buy a panel mounted radio and I really like
everything I have heard about the ICOM A200 (non TSO) like the price, features
and the
2 year warranty. However, the best price I have found is Aircraft Spruce
for $759. Please let me know where you got the $725 price.
Thanks in advance.
Happy building, Mike Elrod 701 builder
NO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rivets (pounding or squeezing) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Hi Keith. I would have replied sooner but have just returned from Sun n Fun.
Here is a simple rivet c-frame that has now been used to make three complete sets
of spars for the 601 XL Works great but we have found it really is a two
person job - one to hold the spar and one to drive the rivet.
http://www.ch601.org/tools/dimpler/dimpler.htm
I built this unit for about $25 and about 2 hours of time. At least I know for
sure that it works and the spars look great. email off-list if you have questions.
PS. first we built the rivet squeezer from plans that was used for driving the
rivets on a Sonex. We couldn't get decent results with this squeezer and it
is now a boat anchor.
David
do not archive
"Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft@itt.com> wrote:
Quick question. What are the advantages/disadvantages of either pounding rivets
or using a squeezer, as I am getting ready to build my spars (CH701).
It seems like by using a mechanical/ bench mounted/ hand squeezer, you can set
a stop at the correct squeeze, so that all the rivets will be consistent and correct.
Thanks,
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
I saw the $725 price at Steinair.com...
..lance
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
MElrod3732@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MElrod3732@aol.com
Hi Bill: I am about to buy a panel mounted radio and I really like
everything I have heard about the ICOM A200 (non TSO) like the price,
features and the
2 year warranty. However, the best price I have found is Aircraft
Spruce for $759. Please let me know where you got the $725 price.
Thanks in advance.
Happy building, Mike Elrod 701 builder
NO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 8
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| Subject: | Corvairs reign at Sun 'N Fun |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ozarkseller2@aol.com
Corvair power seems to be rapidly increasing in popularity, and is
especially suited to the 601. See the new update just posted at William Wynne's
site:
_www.flycorvair.com_ (http://www.flycorvair.com)
Robin Bellach, Jasper, AR
601XL long range tri-gear, N601ZV reserved
Wynne-Vair 2900 completed, turbo conversion planned
Message 9
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| Subject: | COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Bartlett" <bbartlett5@satx.rr.com>
Lance,
The ICOM A200 is my second radio. The Garmin (Apollo) SL-30 is my
primary radio and can be controlled by my Blue Mountain Lite. The SL-30
is IFR and sells for about $3,000.00 including wiring harness and
shipping. The SL-30 includes an intercom, which I won't need since I
have an audio panel. My preference is two comm. radios that give me the
ability to tune 4 channels. That is useful when flying into "Charlie"
airspace.
If you only want one radio, then the ICOM A200 is fine. But, you will
need an intercom.
Shortly after receiving my airworthiness certificate I plan adding the
Blue Mountain auto pilot.
See ya...
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance
Gingell
Subject: Zenith-List: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
<lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Bill,
I notice you have "Garmin SL-30 & ICOM Radios". I'm considering an A200
or an SL30. Seems that the ICOM A200 is $725USD and the SL30 is around
~$1300USD.
I really like the look of the Garmin and its standy monitor, but is it
really worth that much over the ICOM?
Do you have any wisdom/opinions as someone who's "been there"
Cheers,
..lance (still curious about the Blue Mountain...)
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
--------------------------------
Bill,
N140BB, 601XL, Dual Sticks, Tri Gear, Wheel Fairings, Wing Lockers, Aux
Tanks, All Electric w/Blue Mountain-Lite, Audio Panel, Garmin SL-30 &
ICOM Radios, Reddish Stall Warning, Jabiru 3300.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Have you looked at VALCOM?
Mine has worked well for 11 years.
Mike
UHS Spinners
Bill Bartlett wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Bartlett" <bbartlett5@satx.rr.com>
>
> Lance,
> The ICOM A200 is my second radio. The Garmin (Apollo) SL-30 is my
> primary radio and can be controlled by my Blue Mountain Lite. The SL-30
> is IFR and sells for about $3,000.00 including wiring harness and
> shipping. The SL-30 includes an intercom, which I won't need since I
> have an audio panel. My preference is two comm. radios that give me the
> ability to tune 4 channels. That is useful when flying into "Charlie"
> airspace.
>
> If you only want one radio, then the ICOM A200 is fine. But, you will
> need an intercom.
>
> Shortly after receiving my airworthiness certificate I plan adding the
> Blue Mountain auto pilot.
>
> See ya...
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance
> Gingell
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30)
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
> <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
>
> Bill,
>
> I notice you have "Garmin SL-30 & ICOM Radios". I'm considering an A200
> or an SL30. Seems that the ICOM A200 is $725USD and the SL30 is around
> ~$1300USD.
>
> I really like the look of the Garmin and its standy monitor, but is it
> really worth that much over the ICOM?
>
> Do you have any wisdom/opinions as someone who's "been there"
>
> Cheers,
> ..lance (still curious about the Blue Mountain...)
> http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
>
> --------------------------------
> Bill,
> N140BB, 601XL, Dual Sticks, Tri Gear, Wheel Fairings, Wing Lockers, Aux
> Tanks, All Electric w/Blue Mountain-Lite, Audio Panel, Garmin SL-30 &
> ICOM Radios, Reddish Stall Warning, Jabiru 3300.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Bartlett" <bbartlett5@satx.rr.com>
Nope, but I will now.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Fothergill
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill
<mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Have you looked at VALCOM?
Mine has worked well for 11 years.
Mike
UHS Spinners
Bill Bartlett wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Bartlett"
<bbartlett5@satx.rr.com>
>
> Lance,
> The ICOM A200 is my second radio. The Garmin (Apollo) SL-30 is my
> primary radio and can be controlled by my Blue Mountain Lite. The
SL-30
> is IFR and sells for about $3,000.00 including wiring harness and
> shipping. The SL-30 includes an intercom, which I won't need since I
> have an audio panel. My preference is two comm. radios that give me
the
> ability to tune 4 channels. That is useful when flying into "Charlie"
> airspace.
>
> If you only want one radio, then the ICOM A200 is fine. But, you will
> need an intercom.
>
> Shortly after receiving my airworthiness certificate I plan adding the
> Blue Mountain auto pilot.
>
> See ya...
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance
> Gingell
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30)
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
> <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
>
> Bill,
>
> I notice you have "Garmin SL-30 & ICOM Radios". I'm considering an
A200
> or an SL30. Seems that the ICOM A200 is $725USD and the SL30 is around
> ~$1300USD.
>
> I really like the look of the Garmin and its standy monitor, but is it
> really worth that much over the ICOM?
>
> Do you have any wisdom/opinions as someone who's "been there"
>
> Cheers,
> ..lance (still curious about the Blue Mountain...)
> http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
>
> --------------------------------
> Bill,
> N140BB, 601XL, Dual Sticks, Tri Gear, Wheel Fairings, Wing Lockers,
Aux
> Tanks, All Electric w/Blue Mountain-Lite, Audio Panel, Garmin SL-30 &
> ICOM Radios, Reddish Stall Warning, Jabiru 3300.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Engines for 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Boultinghouse" <sonex260@austin.rr.com>
Hi Don,
I'm far from an expert, but I'll give you my opinion...
There are two major problems one faces when using a modern auto engine as
you describe:
1. Auto engines typically are not designed to run for hours on end at full
throttle and under a heavy load. They are designed for brief periods of
heavy load/high RPM, but long term they run at a mere fraction of that
output during highway cruising. While you certainly can run it wide open
and/or under a heavy load, reliability will suffer. You will also likely
experience problems keeping it cool. Imagine hooking a heavy trailer to your
Cavalier, and pulling it uphill in high gear with your foot to the floor for
several hours. That is the kind of load an airplane puts on the engine!
2. Auto engines typically do not make very much power at the RPM necessary
to turn a prop directly (2500-3500). This necessitates the use of a PSRU
(prop speed reduction unit). This adds weight, and creates an entire new
engineering challenge, be it gearbox or belt-reduction.
Add to that the issues of making the modern auto engine computer understand
the new and totally alien environment in which the engine is operating, and
you can start to see why you don't find these engines under the cowling of
very many airplanes! The auto conversions you DO see tend to be decidely
more "low tech". The Corvair and VW conversions are good examples, because
both of them are air cooled, make respectable power at prop-friendly RPMs,
and run well with simple ignition and old-fashioned carburators. There has
been some progress made with Subaru conversions, but the most successful
ones (Eggenfellner) cost almost as much as a Lycoming, and have quite a few
custom components, which negates the "parts on every corner" argument to
some extent.
Of course, this drivel is worth exactly what you paid for it, and is based
solely on my own research into the perfect engine for my Sonex, and watching
my friends agonize over similar choices for their projects. In the end, I
chose a Jabiru 3300. Yes, it was darn expensive. But it works, and I know
I'm using something that was designed to to what I ask of it.
The only auto conversion I would personally consider for the XL would be a
Corvair, built precisely to William Wynne's specifications.
Regards,
Chris Boultinghouse
Austin, TX
Sonex N260SX (reserved)
http://sonex260.wheelsup.org
DO NOT ARCHIVE this rambling nonsense!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Mountain
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:06 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engines for 601 XL
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks Craig. I had looked through the information
> you sent below already, and thats what brought up the
> question about using a more common American made
> engine like the General Motors twin cam, fuel
> injected, all aluminum, 2.2 liter Ecotec engine like
> in the Chevy Cavalier and millions of other GM cars.
> We happen to have Chevy Cavaliers in the family going
> all the way back to 1987, and I can still walk into
> almost any auto parts dealer and get a lot of parts
> for it off the shelf. And they are cheap. I just
> wondered why others are concentrating their engine
> development efforts on less available engines from
> other countries with less availability of parts,
> higher costs for parts, and the engines themselves are
> not real common.
>
> Don
> 601 XL
> tail, flaps, ailerons done, working on wings
Message 13
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| Subject: | COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Bill,
I got my SL30 and SL40 mixed up. Sorry. I keep thinking the 30 is the
COM and the 40 is the NAV/COM...other way around. Anyway, I was thinking
of the SL40.... I guess the Blue Mountain can't tune an SL40
(apparently), which is rather a shame.
Keep us up to date on your Blue Mountain experience..
Cheers,
..lance
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Bartlett
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Bartlett"
--> <bbartlett5@satx.rr.com>
Lance,
The ICOM A200 is my second radio. The Garmin (Apollo) SL-30 is my
primary radio and can be controlled by my Blue Mountain Lite. The SL-30
is IFR and sells for about $3,000.00 including wiring harness and
shipping. The SL-30 includes an intercom, which I won't need since I
have an audio panel. My preference is two comm. radios that give me the
ability to tune 4 channels. That is useful when flying into "Charlie"
airspace.
If you only want one radio, then the ICOM A200 is fine. But, you will
need an intercom.
Shortly after receiving my airworthiness certificate I plan adding the
Blue Mountain auto pilot.
See ya...
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance
Gingell
Subject: Zenith-List: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
<lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Bill,
I notice you have "Garmin SL-30 & ICOM Radios". I'm considering an A200
or an SL30. Seems that the ICOM A200 is $725USD and the SL30 is around
~$1300USD.
I really like the look of the Garmin and its standy monitor, but is it
really worth that much over the ICOM?
Do you have any wisdom/opinions as someone who's "been there"
Cheers,
..lance (still curious about the Blue Mountain...)
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
--------------------------------
Bill,
N140BB, 601XL, Dual Sticks, Tri Gear, Wheel Fairings, Wing Lockers, Aux
Tanks, All Electric w/Blue Mountain-Lite, Audio Panel, Garmin SL-30 &
ICOM Radios, Reddish Stall Warning, Jabiru 3300.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Possible group Insurance for 601XXX Owners |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
Don't forget us 701 builders too! I'd be interested in group insurance.
Bob Spudis
CH-701 Still building
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