Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:00 AM - Re: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) (NYTerminat@aol.com)
2. 05:57 AM - Re: Re 2.2 liter Ecotec (Don Mountain)
3. 05:57 AM - CH 640 Zenair (Scott Moser)
4. 06:05 AM - Re: Engines for 601 XL (Don Mountain)
5. 06:34 AM - Elevator Twist (N5SL)
6. 06:57 AM - Re: Elevator Twist (Randy Stout)
7. 07:12 AM - Re: Engines for 601 XL (Larry Martin)
8. 08:17 AM - Re:Elevator Twist (Zed Smith)
9. 08:25 AM - Re: Engines for 601 XL (Chris Boultinghouse)
10. 08:30 AM - Re: Elevator Twist (N5SL)
11. 08:42 AM - Re: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) (Lance Gingell)
12. 08:59 AM - Re: Engines for 601 XL (n801bh@netzero.com)
13. 09:04 AM - Re: Elevator Twist (gary)
14. 09:06 AM - Re: Elevator Twist (n801bh@netzero.com)
15. 09:52 AM - Re: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) (george may)
16. 10:03 AM - Re: Engines for 601 XL (now wandering off topic) (Chris Boultinghouse)
17. 10:04 AM - Re: Engines for 601 XL (gary)
18. 10:55 AM - Re: Elevator Twist (Larry McFarland)
19. 11:27 AM - Corvairs reign??? (Jeff Small)
20. 11:43 AM - Re: Elevator Twist (N5SL)
21. 12:57 PM - checking facts (Jeff Small)
22. 01:49 PM - 601 unreinforced rudder pedal failure (Peter Chapman)
23. 01:49 PM - Battery selection for 601's (DICK WILBERS)
24. 02:11 PM - Sun-N-Fun Pictures (Cdngoose)
25. 02:33 PM - Re: Engines for 601 XL (now wandering off topic) (n801bh@netzero.com)
26. 02:43 PM - Re: Sun-N-Fun Pictures (Clyde Barcus)
27. 02:48 PM - Re: 601 unreinforced rudder pedal failure (Dan Knezacek)
28. 02:58 PM - Re: Battery selection for 601's (Randy Stout)
29. 03:01 PM - Re: Corvairs reign??? (Larry McFarland)
30. 03:06 PM - Re: Battery selection for 601's (Larry McFarland)
31. 03:49 PM - brake lines (Dan Knezacek)
32. 04:24 PM - Re: brake lines (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
33. 06:55 PM - Re: Battery selection for 601's (Paul Moore)
34. 06:55 PM - Re: 601 unreinforced rudder pedal failure (Peter Chapman)
35. 07:02 PM - Re: checking facts (Larry Martin)
36. 07:02 PM - Re: Engines for 601 XL (now wandering off topic) (Larry Martin)
37. 07:41 PM - Re: Engines for 601 XL (Richard Hutson)
38. 08:03 PM - Re: Elevator Twist (Bryan Martin)
39. 08:14 PM - Re: [aviation] Re: Battery selection for 601's (Bruce Bockius)
40. 08:14 PM - Re: Battery selection for 601's (Bryan Martin)
41. 09:32 PM - Re: Elevator Twist (Gary Gower)
42. 09:44 PM - Re: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) (NYTerminat@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
I just bought the Icom non TSO'd at Sun n Fun for $695 at Pacific Coast and
during the show Icom had a $100 factory rebate. Bottom line $595. They may be
offering it again at Oshkosh.
Bob Spudis
ch701 in progress
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Re 2.2 liter Ecotec |
Zenith <zenith-list@matronics.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Hi Ron. The main reason I brought up the possibility
of using the GM 2.2 Ecotec engine in my 601 XL is
shear volume of them around. Its probably the most
produced engine in the GM cars in the USA. In the
Chevrolet line it appears as the base engine in more
than three models. And its design is brand new in
2003. We happen to have purchased a Chevrolet
Cavalier with one, and I was impressed with the power
it puts out in comparison to the older cast iron block
engines of the same size. We rather overwork our car
engine pulling a fishing boat that weighs probably
more than a thousand pounds. And even during the
summer with the air conditioning on, and the car full
of people, the Ecotec just keeps on going. And it
appears to have a very well designed, lightweight cast
aluminum block and head, along with very lightweight
accessories like the starter and alternator. But I am
not sure if it is light enough to power a 601 XL. I
can't find info on it either.
Don
601 XL
tail, flaps and ailerons done, working on wings
> Hi Don,
>
> I read your e-mail Re the 2.2 liter Ecotec engines
> with intrest.
>
> I am just about finished building a Zenith 601 from
> Scratch &
> have installed a Subaru EA 81. I spent some time
> searching for
> specifications, weights (etc) for the Ecotic, but
> being here in
> Australia I could not find anything, The next
> airplane I build is
> to be a Wittman Tailwind & I shall look into THE 140
> HP
> 2.2 Liter ECOTEC engine as it seems to have a lot
> going
> for it, is this engine readily available in the US
> ?
>
> Attached is photo of my Subaru engine.
>
> Regards
> Ron Saarinen
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott Moser <moscon@citcom.net>
CH 640 For Sale
Message 4
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| Subject: | Engines for 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Thanks Chris. Sounds like you have already gone
through the same thought process that I am going
through now. But since it is awhile before I have to
make the final decision on the engine, I was just
exploring different possibilities and see what others
have tried. I would love to have the time to
experiment with setting up an engine, like the GM 2.2
Ecotec engine, but I don't. Being my first plane kit,
I want to buy an easy to install engine kit that has
proven to work well. And I am leaning strongly to the
Jabiru 3300. It looks far easier than one of the car
engine conversions.
> I'm far from an expert, but I'll give you my
> opinion...
Don
601 XL
tail, ailerons, flaps done, working on wings
__________________________________
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hi guys:
I have a question for those who have mounted the Horiz. Stab. and Elevator to your
fuselage. Last night I finished making my cables and installed them on the
tail. I can now move the elevator and Rudder from the cockpit - very exciting
for me.
Before I could celebrate too much, I noticing a problem. It seems my elevator
has a little twist in it - in other words the right side is about 1/4" low when
the left side is even with the rear of the fiberglass fairing at the "point."
And obviously when I align the right side, the left side is high at the tip
of the fairing. This was not evident until I mounted it to the fuselage (from
what I can remember - I built this two years ago, then hung it on the wall.)
I suspect this is a bad thing and I'm going to remove the elevator and check it
for flatness. In the event it is twisted, I'm considering removing all the rivets
on the top and re-drilling and installing A-5 rivets in hopes it will be
enough to remove the twist.
Comments, Suggestions?
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
N5SL (Reserved)
Doing the "Twist"
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
Scott
Do you think it is more possible that the elevator is straight and the
fiberglass tips are slightly crooked? I think mine are off slightly.
Randy Stout
n282rs"at"earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
> Before I could celebrate too much, I noticing a problem. It seems my
elevator has a little twist in it - in other words the right side is about
1/4" low when the left side is even with the rear of the fiberglass fairing
at the "point." And obviously when I align the right side, the left side
is high at the tip of the fairing. This was not evident until I mounted it
to the fuselage (from what I can remember - I built this two years ago,
then hung it on the wall.)
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engines for 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
I am afraid your opinion is just as you say "your opinion", unfortunately
you base it on flawed information.
First, your are correct about auto engines not designed to run for hours at
full throttle. But, they don't, full throttle at take off, cruise, back off
to mid 4k. The red line on a Subaru is 6.5 - 7K depending on model. The
TBO is very high 2k+, the MTF is very low. Conversely, a Lycoming has a
TBO of 1k. I don't know about failure rate. I think the red line on a
Lycoming is somewhere around 3k, cruise around 22-25k, about the same ratio
as an autoconversion. If you stop and think about it, a Lycoming would
totally blow apart at 6k, that should tell you all you need to know about
the quality of the internals of the different engines.
I think Effenfeller is over priced, but still again his engine will out
perform and outlast a Lycoming IO 360 at two thirds of the price. And it is
State-of-the-Art. That's not even to mention fuel burn, a Lycoming will
burn at least twice the fuel of a FI Subaru. A Lycoming is just not an
efficient engine. A Lycoming fuel injected 360 will cost you over 30k.
Effenfeller gets $21,995 ready to bolt on.
What special conponents? RE-Drive, a rotax has a redrive, a radiator, a
rotax has a radiator. The wiring is converted by people who do it for a
living for around $300 and all you do is plug it up and stick power to it.
Everything on my Subaru 2.5 you can get at almost any autoparts. And guess
what? It doesn't have the word "aircraft" in front of it so it cost about
half as much.
I don't mean to offend you or anyone, but just be careful about stating your
opinion without checking the facts first.
To each his own!!
Larry, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Boultinghouse" <sonex260@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Engines for 601 XL
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Boultinghouse"
<sonex260@austin.rr.com>
>
> Hi Don,
>
> I'm far from an expert, but I'll give you my opinion...
>
> There are two major problems one faces when using a modern auto engine as
> you describe:
>
> 1. Auto engines typically are not designed to run for hours on end at full
> throttle and under a heavy load. They are designed for brief periods of
> heavy load/high RPM, but long term they run at a mere fraction of that
> output during highway cruising. While you certainly can run it wide open
> and/or under a heavy load, reliability will suffer. You will also likely
> experience problems keeping it cool. Imagine hooking a heavy trailer to
your
> Cavalier, and pulling it uphill in high gear with your foot to the floor
for
> several hours. That is the kind of load an airplane puts on the engine!
>
> 2. Auto engines typically do not make very much power at the RPM necessary
> to turn a prop directly (2500-3500). This necessitates the use of a PSRU
> (prop speed reduction unit). This adds weight, and creates an entire new
> engineering challenge, be it gearbox or belt-reduction.
>
> Add to that the issues of making the modern auto engine computer
understand
> the new and totally alien environment in which the engine is operating,
and
> you can start to see why you don't find these engines under the cowling of
> very many airplanes! The auto conversions you DO see tend to be decidely
> more "low tech". The Corvair and VW conversions are good examples, because
> both of them are air cooled, make respectable power at prop-friendly RPMs,
> and run well with simple ignition and old-fashioned carburators. There has
> been some progress made with Subaru conversions, but the most successful
> ones (Eggenfellner) cost almost as much as a Lycoming, and have quite a
few
> custom components, which negates the "parts on every corner" argument to
> some extent.
>
> Of course, this drivel is worth exactly what you paid for it, and is based
> solely on my own research into the perfect engine for my Sonex, and
watching
> my friends agonize over similar choices for their projects. In the end, I
> chose a Jabiru 3300. Yes, it was darn expensive. But it works, and I know
> I'm using something that was designed to to what I ask of it.
>
> The only auto conversion I would personally consider for the XL would be a
> Corvair, built precisely to William Wynne's specifications.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris Boultinghouse
> Austin, TX
> Sonex N260SX (reserved)
> http://sonex260.wheelsup.org
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE this rambling nonsense!
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Mountain
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:06 AM
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engines for 601 XL
> >
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Thanks Craig. I had looked through the information
> > you sent below already, and thats what brought up the
> > question about using a more common American made
> > engine like the General Motors twin cam, fuel
> > injected, all aluminum, 2.2 liter Ecotec engine like
> > in the Chevy Cavalier and millions of other GM cars.
> > We happen to have Chevy Cavaliers in the family going
> > all the way back to 1987, and I can still walk into
> > almost any auto parts dealer and get a lot of parts
> > for it off the shelf. And they are cheap. I just
> > wondered why others are concentrating their engine
> > development efforts on less available engines from
> > other countries with less availability of parts,
> > higher costs for parts, and the engines themselves are
> > not real common.
> >
> > Don
> > 601 XL
> > tail, flaps, ailerons done, working on wings
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>
--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re:Elevator Twist |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
You didn't mention your shoe size.
An appropriately placed #12 usually provides some remedy.
If that fails, just lean left or right in flight.
Are you sure tire inflation is okay?
Regards,
Zed
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Engines for 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Boultinghouse" <sonex260@austin.rr.com>
Hi Larry,
No offense taken, but I did check my facts, having researched "auto vs
airplane" for over a year before buying my engine. The Subaru is definitely
a contender in the auto-conversion arena, but it still has a LONG way to go
before the reliability or practicality is proven to match that of a
Lycoming. Likewise with the Geo, and others.
As for the fuel burn, I still disagree with you there. While a modern Subaru
is a bit more efficient, recent head-to-head tests, published both online
and in magazines, have shown that there is a much smaller real-world
difference in fuel consumption compared to a Lycoming than the engine
vendors would lead you to believe. It can be said with certainty that a
Lycoming does NOT "burn at least twice the fuel of a FI Subaru" if you are
making equal horsepower! It takes a certain amount fuel to make power,
regardless of the RPM at which it occurs. And speaking of RPM, it's not fair
to say a Lycoming has poor quality internals just because it won't hold up
at 6k RPM! Clearly, it was never designed to operate at that RPM. The Subie
would come apart if you revved it to 12k, but that doesn't mean it's of poor
quality!
But as you say, to each his own! There are several happy Eggenfellner
drivers out there who wouldn't trade for a Lycoming on a bet. And visa
versa. :
)
-Chris
DO NOT ARCHIVE
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Martin
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:12 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engines for 601 XL
> I don't mean to offend you or anyone, but just be careful about
> stating your
> opinion without checking the facts first.
>
> To each his own!!
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Thanks Randy:
That's a good point - I'll check that. I plan to take some photographs without
the rudder so you can see what I'm seeing.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Randy Stout <n282rs@earthlink.net> wrote:
Scott
Do you think it is more possible that the elevator is straight and the
fiberglass tips are slightly crooked? I think mine are off slightly.
Message 11
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| Subject: | COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Wow, that makes it a no-brainer! How does the factory rebate work (or
did PCA give you that on the spot). I'm wondering if I may still get it
somehow.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
NYTerminat@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
I just bought the Icom non TSO'd at Sun n Fun for $695 at Pacific Coast
and during the show Icom had a $100 factory rebate. Bottom line $595.
They may be offering it again at Oshkosh.
Bob Spudis
ch701 in progress
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Engines for 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
I am afraid your opinion is just as you say "your opinion",
unfortunately
you base it on flawed information.
First, your are correct about auto engines not designed to run for hours at
full throttle. But, they don't, full throttle at take off, cruise, back off
to mid 4k. The red line on a Subaru is 6.5 - 7K depending on model. The
TBO is very high 2k+, the MTF is very low. Conversely, a Lycoming has a
TBO of 1k. I don't know about failure rate. I think the red line on a
Lycoming is somewhere around 3k, cruise
//////////////////////////////
Remember, we are building an "EXPERIMENTAL" plane for educational purposes. I am
the first to admit going the alternative engine route is not for the average
person. If it were easy woman and children would be doing it all the time.. ha.
Some of us want to push the envelope and advance flying to a new level. If
we all adopted your views we would all be driving model A Fords and hand cranking
it each time we needed to go somewhere. As for your idea of auto engines not
cut out for extended high power runs, Let me point out one simple thing. You
need to move, so you go to the local Ryder/Uhaul outlet and rent a large box
truck with a small block Ford / Chevy in it. You drive it home, overload it with
all your junk till the tires are half flat and start out on a cross country
move. You get in it, start it, don't wait for it to warm up and hold the throttle
wide open all the way across this BIG country. This scene is repeated hundreds
of times in this same truck for years. Most ma
ke it over 100,000 miles till they auction off the truck and god knows how many
miles they run after that. I can assure you that certified aircraft engines
would puke long before that. Now, if you really want to see an EXTREME situation
take a marine application. Boat stays on the trailer with very little tlc
till the owner takes it to the lake/ocean and dumps in in, fires it up and spends
"ALL" day with the throttle wide open. This goes on for years till he/ she
sells it and the new owner does the same thing. Ya want to kill a motor ??????
put it in a boat !!!!!!!
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Twist |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary" <FlyinK@Efortress.com>
> I suspect this is a bad thing and I'm going to remove the elevator and
> check it for flatness. In the event it is twisted, I'm considering
> removing all the rivets on the top and re-drilling and installing A-5
> rivets in hopes it will be enough to remove the twist.
>
i was told that just by drilling out the rivets, re-jigging and replacing
with the same size can correct some pretty bad twist. apparently there is
enough micro-slop in each rivet to allow significant movement if not
properly jigged.
gary
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Twist |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
I suspect this is a bad thing and I'm going to remove the elevator and check it
for flatness. In the event it is twisted, I'm considering removing all the
rivets on the top and re-drilling and installing A-5 rivets in hopes it will be
enough to remove the twist.
Comments, Suggestions?
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
N5SL (Reserved)
Doing the "Twist"
//////////////
Contact me off list Scott..
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
Lance--
I bought my ICOM 200 TSO version at Airventure last year at American
Avionics
for $715 an received a $120 coupon rebate($100 for non-TSO). The rebate is
a mail in.
After I received my radio, I sent in the coupon and about 6 weeks later
received
the check. Pretty good deal. Same deal was offered at Sun N Fun this year,
so
I assume it will also be at Oshkosh
George May
601XL
>From: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30)
>Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:41:32 -0700
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
><lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
>
>Wow, that makes it a no-brainer! How does the factory rebate work (or
>did PCA give you that on the spot). I'm wondering if I may still get it
>somehow.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>NYTerminat@aol.com
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30)
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
>
>I just bought the Icom non TSO'd at Sun n Fun for $695 at Pacific Coast
>and during the show Icom had a $100 factory rebate. Bottom line $595.
>They may be offering it again at Oshkosh.
>
>Bob Spudis
>ch701 in progress
>
>
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message 16
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| Subject: | Engines for 601 XL (now wandering off topic) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Boultinghouse" <sonex260@austin.rr.com>
Ben,
Far be it from me to discourage anyone from experimenting!
I didn't say "don't do it! Stick to what's proven!". The gentleman asked
what kind of design problems there would be installing an auto engine in a
plane, and I provided some information regarding the potential issues he
would face. Obviously there are differing opinions on the longevity of auto
conversions, and they will remain opinions and speculation until enough
fleet hours are built up to have hard data on which to base these
statements. Despite a the efforts of pioneering experimenters such as
yourself, there are still not very many auto conversions flying around. Is
it because they don't work well? Is it because we're all big chickens? Who
knows!
I really admire what you've done with the powerplant in your 801, and
(especially with me being a Ford fan) I'd LOVE to hear it roar!
-Chris
do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> Remember, we are building an "EXPERIMENTAL" plane for educational
> purposes. I am the first to admit going the alternative engine
> route is not for the average person. If it were easy woman and
> children would be doing it all the time.. ha. Some of us want to
> push the envelope and advance flying to a new level. If we all
> adopted your views we would all be driving model A Fords and hand
> cranking it each time we needed to go somewhere.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Engines for 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary" <FlyinK@Efortress.com>
(second send - first email bounced)
> I'll take that bait! Might sound like some attitude from me here but
> still just a friendly discussion;
>
>> 1. Auto engines typically are not designed to run for hours on end at
>> full
>> throttle and under a heavy load.
> -- I've seen a couple articles by engineers at auto manufacturers that say
> that's exactly how they are designed as are most engines (but not Lyc's).
> They run them wide open under load for extended periods as standard tests.
> You seem like you are stating fact - did you get the information from auto
> engine designers, or is that your opinion or restating rumor?
>
> They are designed for brief periods of
>> heavy load/high RPM, but long term they run at a mere fraction of that
>> output during highway cruising.
> -- heavy load, low rpm is worst case and around town driving is the real
> killer. you're right, highway cruising is no problem. kinda like
> airplane cruising. i can feel when the engine is under load (like
> climbing) and cruising in the plane isn't WOT under heavy load, it's
> cruising. my engine just hums along and I can tell that's it's happy and
> doesn't mind a bit. very smooth and quiet. if you haven't flown a soob
> lately you owe it to yourself to find a ride. the smooth ride is reason
> enough to get one.
>
> While you certainly can run it wide open
>> and/or under a heavy load, reliability will suffer.
> -- no doubt, but hard to quantify and not really an issue unless you're a
> Reno racer. never heard of any sane person running any airplane "wide
> open" for extended periods.
>
> You will also likely
>> experience problems keeping it cool.
> -- if you do your own new installation, maybe yes. if you copy something
> that works, no. there are enough out there that work fine and cool better
> all around than air-cooled. i couldn't get mine hot if I wanted - long
> climbs on 90 degree days, taxiing at Oshkosh, etc. and the heat in the
> winter is reason enough to want one. my hangar neighbor suits up in the
> winter and usually quits flying when it gets to cold. i have to take
> layers off before flying in the winter. it's great to pull the throttle
> back and not worry about shock cooling too.
>
> Imagine hooking a heavy trailer to your
>> Cavalier, and pulling it uphill in high gear with your foot to the floor
>> for
>> several hours. That is the kind of load an airplane puts on the engine!
> -- huh? I don't pull a trailer with my plane or climb for several hours.
> a plane pulls itself up in the air just like a car pulling itself up
> hill - no trailer analogy here. like I said before - run WOT for several
> hours? i climb for 5 minutes, then cruise for a couple hours. a few
> hours max for my bladder.
>
>>
>> 2. Auto engines typically do not make very much power at the RPM
>> necessary
>> to turn a prop directly (2500-3500). This necessitates the use of a PSRU
>> (prop speed reduction unit).
> -- excellent! after flying with a PSRU, why would anyone even want direct
> drive? bigger prop spinning slower is smoother, quieter, more efficient.
> i love the big disc up front, more thrust and very effective airbrake when
> you throttle the water-cooled engine back.
>
> This adds weight, and creates an entire new
>> engineering challenge, be it gearbox or belt-reduction.
> -- rotax and many others have met that engineering challenge and beat it
> to death. lot's of homemade or not well designed PSRU's have failed but
> there are plenty of well proven designs. one of the best new aircraft
> engines is the bombardier 200 HP - with a PSRU. extra weight, yes.
> although the 912's are very light for PSRU engines.
>
>
>> Add to that the issues of making the modern auto engine computer
>> understand
>> the new and totally alien environment in which the engine is operating,
>> and
>> you can start to see why you don't find these engines under the cowling
>> of
>> very many airplanes! The auto conversions you DO see tend to be decidely
>> more "low tech". The Corvair and VW conversions are good examples,
>> because
>> both of them are air cooled, make respectable power at prop-friendly
>> RPMs,
>> and run well with simple ignition and old-fashioned carburators. There
>> has
>> been some progress made with Subaru conversions, but the most successful
>> ones (Eggenfellner) cost almost as much as a Lycoming, and have quite a
>> few
>> custom components, which negates the "parts on every corner" argument to
>> some extent.
> -- maybe to some extent for the PSRU and such, but still there are lots of
> parts that are lots cheaper than lyc or rotax. still a huge operational
> cost savings. it seems i bought half my parts from NAPA doing my
> installation - and that's ok. they were right down the street and cheap.
> i'll go thru spruce for AN hardware and mil spec wire but i'll take NAPA
> for plugs, filters, hoses, etc.
>
>> Of course, this drivel is worth exactly what you paid for it,
> -- (same for me)
>
> wouldn't trade my subaru for nuthin!!! ever see how easy they start?
> kinda like ... a car.
> gary
> Stratus EA-81
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Twist |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Scott,
Don't go to A5s! Just drill them out carefully and straighten the
elevator, jig it to hold it even perhaps a degree beyond
your recovery angle and recleco and re-rivit.
I had the same problem with an aileron and had to redrill twice to get
it to shift just enough to straighten it
but it worked out. As I recollect, the aileron was about 5/16" out of
it's correct position over its length.
Larry McFarland
N5SL wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi guys:
>
>I have a question for those who have mounted the Horiz. Stab. and Elevator to
your fuselage. Last night I finished making my cables and installed them on the
tail. I can now move the elevator and Rudder from the cockpit - very exciting
for me.
>
>Before I could celebrate too much, I noticing a problem. It seems my elevator
has a little twist in it - in other words the right side is about 1/4" low when
the left side is even with the rear of the fiberglass fairing at the "point."
And obviously when I align the right side, the left side is high at the tip
of the fairing. This was not evident until I mounted it to the fuselage (from
what I can remember - I built this two years ago, then hung it on the wall.)
>
>I suspect this is a bad thing and I'm going to remove the elevator and check it
for flatness. In the event it is twisted, I'm considering removing all the
rivets on the top and re-drilling and installing A-5 rivets in hopes it will be
enough to remove the twist.
>
>Comments, Suggestions?
>
>Scott Laughlin
>www.cooknwithgas.com
>N5SL (Reserved)
>Doing the "Twist"
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Corvairs reign??? |
Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:26:31 -0400
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Corvairs reign at Sun 'N Fun
From American Heritage Dictionary:
reign - intr. v. 1. To exercise sovereign power. 2. To hold the title of sovereign
but with limited authority. 3. To be predominant or prevalent.
Bet that was a surprise to the thousands of a/c that arrived at LAL powered by
Continental, Lycoming, Rotax, Subaru, Jabiru, etc. Equally bet that your subject
line got a few chuckles from many listers who fly behind those powerplants.
Other than Wynne's XL, how many other 601 were Corvair powered?
I applaud your enthusiasm for your engine choice and wish you well, but no one
has had a coronation for the old GM product yet! And if Ralphie gets wind of
this...
CAVU jeff do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Twist |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Thank you Larry:
That is good advice. I hadn't thought of just tweaking it and re-riveting. I
guess A5's would be a little extreme! Just my luck it is twisted in the direction
to give a heavy left wing! If it was the other way I may have just left
it for a time.
I have another idea to run past you so I'll send it off-line.
Thanks again,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
Scott,
Don't go to A5s!
Message 21
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Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:43:18 -0400
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
> I don't mean to offend you or anyone, but just be careful about stating your
opinion without checking the facts first.
I do believe you'll find the TBO on a Lycoming 360 (engine you quoted) to be 2000
hours. (Source: quick check of AeroCrafter in the engine section and the Textron
Lycoming site)
I enjoy this opinionated discussion of engine choices, and it is opinionated as
everyone has their preference. But most of you guys have already made up your
mind and are preachin' to the choir. If you haven't made up your mind you're
just fooling yourself.
bluebird skies and tailwinds jeff do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | 601 unreinforced rudder pedal failure |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Chapman <pchapman@ionsys.com>
Hi all,
I just want to report another broken rudder pedal, of the unreinforced
early type.
The aircraft fuselage had been closed up during construction shortly before
Zenith's 1998 bulletin came out, so my dad and I hadn't bothered to add the
gussets, though we figured we'd have to do repair work "some day". The 601
HDS flew in 1999 and has roughly 350 hours.
It happened last weekend, to the pilot's left rudder pedal, while the pilot
used heavy brake during an unusually quick stop from a slow taxi on the
apron. The pilot stopped the aircraft by turning off the ignition. The
vertical stem of the pedal tore out a chunk of the horizontal cross tube --
It was the thin walled tube that failed, not the weld between the
horizontal and vertical tubes.
I'm a little unclear on what the Zenith bulletin intends. From searching
the Z-list archives, it sounds like some people have welded a gusset on the
front or the back for all 4 pedals, while some have welded a thinner gusset
on both the front and back of the pedals.
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC
Message 23
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| Subject: | Battery selection for 601's |
0.38 FROM_NO_LOWER From address has no lower-case characters
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "DICK WILBERS" <RWILBERS@TAMPABAY.RR.COM>
Dear Zenith List:
Has anyone used a tractor or motorcycle battery in their 601? The cost of aircraft
batteries is rather high and since I don't plan to do any aerobatics, I was
wondering about using a tractor or motorcycle battery.
Your comments would be appreciated.
Dick Wilbers........601 HDS (finished waiting for inspection)
Message 24
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| Subject: | Sun-N-Fun Pictures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Hi Folks
We have arrived home safe and sound from Sun-N-Fun 2005. After a couple
days of much needed rest I have spent a bit of time uploading some of
the pictures to www.ch601.org and www.ch701.com just click on the
SUN-N-FUN 2005 link. I would like to Thank Rick Roberts and Crew, Jabiru
USA and Sportsplanes.com for all there help in making the First annual
Webmasters Sun-N-Fun BBQ a GREAT success!
The Webmasters had a great time meeting all of you and getting a chance
to mingle with those who over the years have become friends on the other
side of the computer screen.
I hope all those who attended get a chance to tell there feelings about
the event and any stories about meeting fellow builders.
Hope to see you all and more again next year at the WEBMASTERS SUN-N-FUN
BBQ 2006!
Mark, David & Jon
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
Message 25
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| Subject: | Engines for 601 XL (now wandering off topic) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
Obviously there are differing opinions on the longevity of auto
conversions, and they will remain opinions and speculation until enough
fleet hours are built up to have hard data on which to base these
statements. Despite a the efforts of pioneering experimenters such as
yourself, there are still not very many auto conversions flying around. Is
it because they don't work well? Is it because we're all big chickens? Who
knows!
I really admire what you've done with the powerplant in your 801, and
(especially with me being a Ford fan) I'd LOVE to hear it roar!
-Chris
do not archive
...............................................................
From the onset of alternative engines in experimentals came the idea of getting
a powerplant cheap. Alot of guys did go to a junk yard, buy a questionable motor
and install it without thinking it all the way through. This caused alot of
those to have an "incident" and gave the image of auto powered planes as not
realible. There are a few of us who have explored the auto engine route using
the BEST available new parts and componants. My engine was not cheap. in fact
the bare block alone was $4300.00 and that was before the machine work was done
on it. I used Nascar proven crank, rods, heads, valves, ignition, etc throughout
the motor. It was still less expensive then a Lycoming, it is water cooled
so no chances of CO in the cockpit due to cabin heat, no chances of shock
cooling the heads during decent, the fuel burn is ALOT better then an aircooled
motor altho it is not 1/2 of a Lyc.
Don't get me wrong, I am aware that this thing could kill me on the next flight
but I am very confident of its potential and am willing to explore its parameters.
One thing is for sure, every time I taxi out, heads start to turn and they
wonder what is in that THING. During the takeoff the V-8 really sings and
when I return to the hangar to put the toy to bed there is usually a few pilots
standing there shaking their heads in disbelief and wanting to look at the "monster".
Only in America can one build and fly a truly experimental plane and
get away with it.. God bless the USA..
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Sun-N-Fun Pictures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
Mark, David & Jon
I for one had a great time. It was clear to me it that everyone enjoyed your
hospitality and the opportunity to meet other like-minded individuals and
discuss our projects. I left encouraged with new ideas and the beginning of
new friendships that I am sure will grow over the years and I look forward
to the successful completions of all the builders involved in Zenith kits.
Sincere Thanks:
Clyde Barcus
CH 601 XL, Corvair Powered
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun Pictures
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
>
>
> Hi Folks
>
> We have arrived home safe and sound from Sun-N-Fun 2005. After a couple
> days of much needed rest I have spent a bit of time uploading some of
> the pictures to www.ch601.org and www.ch701.com just click on the
> SUN-N-FUN 2005 link. I would like to Thank Rick Roberts and Crew, Jabiru
> USA and Sportsplanes.com for all there help in making the First annual
> Webmasters Sun-N-Fun BBQ a GREAT success!
> The Webmasters had a great time meeting all of you and getting a chance
> to mingle with those who over the years have become friends on the other
> side of the computer screen.
> I hope all those who attended get a chance to tell there feelings about
> the event and any stories about meeting fellow builders.
> Hope to see you all and more again next year at the WEBMASTERS SUN-N-FUN
> BBQ 2006!
>
> Mark, David & Jon
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
> President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: 601 unreinforced rudder pedal failure |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Knezacek <dan@knezacek.ca>
Peter,
What is the thickness of the wall on your rudder pedal tubes?
Dan
Message 28
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| Subject: | Battery selection for 601's |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
Dick
I have an Odyssey PC625 in mine. Cost about $70.
http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=ODY-PC625 I know of others using
the same battery. It's sealed, so you don't have to worry about it
corroding the aluminum, or a battery box, and it can lay on it's side.
Randy Stout
n282rs"at"earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
> [Original Message]
> From: DICK WILBERS <RWILBERS@tampabay.rr.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/20/2005 3:43:06 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Battery selection for 601's
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "DICK WILBERS"
<RWILBERS@TAMPABAY.RR.COM>
>
> Dear Zenith List:
>
> Has anyone used a tractor or motorcycle battery in their 601? The cost of
aircraft batteries is rather high and since I don't plan to do any
aerobatics, I was wondering about using a tractor or motorcycle battery.
> Your comments would be appreciated.
>
> Dick Wilbers........601 HDS (finished waiting for inspection)
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Corvairs reign??? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Jeff,
I was one of those, and this could be a wrong assumption, because the
601 that flew the farthest to Sun n Fun 05
was Brian Martin's, powered by a Subaru EA-81, from Michigan.
Larry McFarland
do not archive
Jeff Small wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>
>
>
>>Subject: Zenith-List: Corvairs reign at Sun 'N Fun
>>
>>
>I applaud your enthusiasm for your engine choice and wish you well, but no one
has had a coronation for the old GM product yet! And if Ralphie gets wind of
this...
>
>CAVU jeff do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Battery selection for 601's |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Dick,
I used a couple of 18 amp hour Sealed Lead Acid batteries from Batteries
Plus. Not terribly expensive
and they seem to work well. I could probably get along with one easily
if I weren't flying
an electrically dependant Subaru. Lots of sizes to choose from there.
Larry McFarland
do not archive
DICK WILBERS wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "DICK WILBERS" <RWILBERS@TAMPABAY.RR.COM>
>
>Dear Zenith List:
>
>Has anyone used a tractor or motorcycle battery in their 601? The cost of aircraft
batteries is rather high and since I don't plan to do any aerobatics, I was
wondering about using a tractor or motorcycle battery.
>Your comments would be appreciated.
>
>Dick Wilbers........601 HDS (finished waiting for inspection)
>
>
>
>
Message 31
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Knezacek <dan@knezacek.ca>
What type of lines are being used for hydraulic brakes?
I see that ACS says that Nylaflow Nylon tubing is used for brake lines,
but it is only rated to 1000 psi.
The Nylo-seal nylon tubing is rated to 1500 psi and the NSR tubing is
rated to 2500 psi. Or would that be overkill?
How does nylon handle brake fluid?
Dan
Message 32
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Firstly aircraft brake fluid is not really brake fluid...its a hydraulic
oil of some kind...Whatever you do DO NOT PUT automotive brake fluid in
your cylinders.
I have been using the nylon tubing for 360 hours and it works fine.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Knezacek
Subject: Zenith-List: brake lines
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Knezacek <dan@knezacek.ca>
What type of lines are being used for hydraulic brakes?
I see that ACS says that Nylaflow Nylon tubing is used for brake lines,
but it is only rated to 1000 psi.
The Nylo-seal nylon tubing is rated to 1500 psi and the NSR tubing is
rated to 2500 psi. Or would that be overkill?
How does nylon handle brake fluid?
Dan
Message 33
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| Subject: | Battery selection for 601's |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
I have the same battery, but got it off eBay for $52.79 + $14 shipping.
That was the cheapest price by far of anyone and it came the very next day.
Search for PC625 on eBay motors - you'll find the right guy.
Paul
___________________________________
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Battery selection for 601's
Dick
I have an Odyssey PC625 in mine.
Randy Stout
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: 601 unreinforced rudder pedal failure |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Chapman <pchapman@ionsys.com>
At 17:44 20-04-05, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Knezacek <dan@knezacek.ca>
>
>What is the thickness of the wall on your rudder pedal tubes?
Sorry, don't know for sure, and my dad has the pedals & plans at his home.
However, this may be sufficient:
I assume it is .035", which George Pinneo once mentioned for his 1994
vintage kit (mine is 1995), which is less than the .049" or .058" suggested
upgrade of the 1998 Zenith bulletin. Recent kits, Pinneo wrote, are .058".
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: checking facts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
Thanks, last I heard it was 1000. I stand corrected, of course that makes
the Subaru TBO at least 3k probably 4k. But, it really don't matter, I
couldn't put 1000 hours on one if I tried.
Jeff, having our minds made up could be true for most, not me. I go with
what I think is best at any given time. If someone could prove to me that a
very old technology certified aircraft engine with magnetos and carbs such
as a Lycoming was better than a modern technology fuel injected computer
controlled ignition system engine such as a Subaru, then I would change in a
heart beat. But, you know and I know you can't. I pretty much know
Subaru's and what they can or cannot do and have considerable experience
with them. The gyro people run the hell out of them, full blast all the
time and they very rarely have any trouble.
But, as I've said before, "there is nothing that cannot be improved".
There are some people who are more comfortable with the old tried and true
and that's ok, but not me, never will be, never has been. I found
something at SNF I think I will like better than a Subaru. I could be
wrong, but that's just the way I am. Everyone will have to just wait and
see, if I'm wrong I'll say so.
Larry, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: checking facts
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>
> > I don't mean to offend you or anyone, but just be careful about stating
your
> opinion without checking the facts first.
>
> I do believe you'll find the TBO on a Lycoming 360 (engine you quoted) to
be 2000 hours. (Source: quick check of AeroCrafter in the engine section
and the Textron Lycoming site)
>
> I enjoy this opinionated discussion of engine choices, and it is
opinionated as everyone has their preference. But most of you guys have
already made up your mind and are preachin' to the choir. If you haven't
made up your mind you're just fooling yourself.
>
> bluebird skies and tailwinds jeff do not archive
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>
>
--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Engines for 601 XL (now wandering off topic) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
Hey Chris, there is lots of unofficial data on Subaru's. I personally know
of three who have way over a 1000 hours, they are gyro instructors who fly
all the time. I looked at one's hour meter and it was over 2400 hours, same
old Subaru 2.5 in it all the time averaging over 5k rpm. E-mail me and I
can give your names.
Larry, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: <n801bh@netzero.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Engines for 601 XL (now wandering off topic)
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com"
<n801bh@netzero.com>
>
>
> Obviously there are differing opinions on the longevity of auto
> conversions, and they will remain opinions and speculation until enough
> fleet hours are built up to have hard data on which to base these
> statements. Despite a the efforts of pioneering experimenters such as
> yourself, there are still not very many auto conversions flying around. Is
> it because they don't work well? Is it because we're all big chickens? Who
> knows!
>
> I really admire what you've done with the powerplant in your 801, and
> (especially with me being a Ford fan) I'd LOVE to hear it roar!
>
> -Chris
>
> do not archive
> ...............................................................
>
> From the onset of alternative engines in experimentals came the idea of
getting a powerplant cheap. Alot of guys did go to a junk yard, buy a
questionable motor and install it without thinking it all the way through.
This caused alot of those to have an "incident" and gave the image of auto
powered planes as not realible. There are a few of us who have explored the
auto engine route using the BEST available new parts and componants. My
engine was not cheap. in fact the bare block alone was $4300.00 and that
was before the machine work was done on it. I used Nascar proven crank,
rods, heads, valves, ignition, etc throughout the motor. It was still less
expensive then a Lycoming, it is water cooled so no chances of CO in the
cockpit due to cabin heat, no chances of shock cooling the heads during
decent, the fuel burn is ALOT better then an aircooled motor altho it is not
1/2 of a Lyc.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I am aware that this thing could kill me on the next
flight but I am very confident of its potential and am willing to explore
its parameters. One thing is for sure, every time I taxi out, heads start to
turn and they wonder what is in that THING. During the takeoff the V-8
really sings and when I return to the hangar to put the toy to bed there is
usually a few pilots standing there shaking their heads in disbelief and
wanting to look at the "monster". Only in America can one build and fly a
truly experimental plane and get away with it.. God bless the USA..
>
> do not archive
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>
>
--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Engines for 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
Larry, are you going to be at the fly-in at Heber Springs this weekend.
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Twist |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Before you drill out those rivets, take a small pin punch and punch out the
mandrels. The rivets will drill out much easier then.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
> Thank you Larry:
>
> That is good advice. I hadn't thought of just tweaking it and re-riveting.
I
> guess A5's would be a little extreme! Just my luck it is twisted in the
> direction to give a heavy left wing! If it was the other way I may have just
> left it for a time.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 39
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| Subject: | Battery selection for 601's |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Bockius" <bruce@whiteantelopesoftware.com>
I've used an 18AH sealed lead-acid battery
(http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=SLA-12V18) $29.95, 14 lbs for
the last six years (well, I replace it with a new one every two years).
For the record I also have a 3AH sealed lead-acid battery as a backup
for the electronic ignition on my Subaru engine.
-Bruce/601HD/TDO/445 hrs
**********************
Bruce Bockius
bruceb@WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com
Black Forest, CO, USA
http://www.WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com/zodiac
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Randy Stout
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 3:55 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: Battery selection for 601's
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout"
> <n282rs@earthlink.net>
>
> Dick
>
> I have an Odyssey PC625 in mine. Cost about $70.
> http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=ODY-PC625 I know of
> others using the same battery. It's sealed, so you don't have
> to worry about it corroding the aluminum, or a battery box,
> and it can lay on it's side.
>
> Randy Stout
> n282rs"at"earthlink.net
> www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: DICK WILBERS <RWILBERS@tampabay.rr.com>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 4/20/2005 3:43:06 PM
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Battery selection for 601's
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "DICK WILBERS"
> <RWILBERS@TAMPABAY.RR.COM>
> >
> > Dear Zenith List:
> >
> > Has anyone used a tractor or motorcycle battery in their
> 601? The cost
> > of
> aircraft batteries is rather high and since I don't plan to
> do any aerobatics, I was wondering about using a tractor or
> motorcycle battery.
> > Your comments would be appreciated.
> >
> > Dick Wilbers........601 HDS (finished waiting for inspection)
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Battery selection for 601's |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I have an Odyssey PC680 dry cell in my XL. Works like a champ on all but the
coldest days. When the battery is very cold, the cranking voltage drops off
enough that my ignition circuits won't fire. The battery only weighs 15lbs.
I got a good deal on EBay.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "DICK WILBERS" <RWILBERS@TAMPABAY.RR.COM>
>
> Dear Zenith List:
>
> Has anyone used a tractor or motorcycle battery in their 601? The cost of
> aircraft batteries is rather high and since I don't plan to do any aerobatics,
> I was wondering about using a tractor or motorcycle battery.
> Your comments would be appreciated.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 41
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
If you align the elevator with the stabilizer, then you will only have 1/8" in
each side... I dont think this will be noted when you fly the airplane. The
trim will do the rest.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive.
N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL
Thanks Randy:
That's a good point - I'll check that. I plan to take some photographs without
the rudder so you can see what I'm seeing.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Randy Stout wrote:
Scott
Do you think it is more possible that the elevator is straight and the
fiberglass tips are slightly crooked? I think mine are off slightly.
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: COM Radios (ICOM vs SL30) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
The Factory Rebate is a form that you send in to Icom. You send it in with
the warrentee card and serial # of the radio. I got the form from PCA. I first
found out about it when I talked to the guys in the Icom booth.
Bob Spudis
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