---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/22/05:17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:27 AM - Re: BRS (Ballistic Recovery System) (N5SL) 2. 06:10 AM - Elevator Twist Resolved - Photograph (N5SL) 3. 07:33 AM - control - lifting surface twist (roy vickski) 4. 08:18 AM - curious about aerodynamics (roy vickski) 5. 08:57 AM - Re: curious about aerodynamics (Bob Miller) 6. 01:50 PM - Re: Elevator Twist Resolved - Photograph (george may) 7. 03:04 PM - neat tool () 8. 03:36 PM - Re: Elevator Twist Resolved - Photograph (N5SL) 9. 04:04 PM - Re: Elevator Twist (Brett) 10. 04:15 PM - Re: neat tool (Monty Graves) 11. 04:23 PM - Re: 601 engines..... (Brett) 12. 05:43 PM - Re: 601 engines..... (Cdngoose) 13. 07:03 PM - Re: 601 engines..... (Larry Martin) 14. 07:16 PM - Re: BRS (Ballistic Recovery System) (NYTerminat@aol.com) 15. 09:08 PM - Re: neat tool (Brandon Tucker) 16. 09:24 PM - Builder's Workshop (Dave VanLanen) 17. 10:32 PM - Re: Sun-N-Fun BBQ (Roger Pritchard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:12 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: BRS (Ballistic Recovery System) --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL In summary one of his axles broke on landing and damaged his airplane. It was a design flaw that has since been corrected by the axle manufacturer. Mike tells the story better. Also you can get the information from the archives. DO NOT ARCHIVE NYTerminat@aol.com wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com What happend to his 701 that he is rebuilding? I saw the pictures and it sure looks like he did an excellent job on his. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:38 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Zenith-List: Elevator Twist Resolved - Photograph --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Thanks for all the helpfull advice on my elevator twist problem. I could have left it alone and I think it would have been fine. I have been wanting to increase the size of my elevator trim tab since I saw the Czech 601XL at Sun-n Fun in 2004. I marked out a larger trim tab cutout and used my snips to cut the section out of the elevator. I forgot how easy the .016" was to cut since I've been working with .025" for some time now. I only had to remove a few rivets and thanks to Bryan Martin's suggestion I tried the "punch" method for removing rivets and it worked very well. From now on, I'll punch out the center first, then drill. Thanks Bryan! This job can be done with the elevator still on the airframe. I bent up a longer "6-T-6-3" and clamped it in place. Another big thanks goes out to Larry McFarland and his excellent design on my brake. It has made life much easier. Long story short, the twist is now removed since I'm re-drilling the elevator cutout channel. I just clamped both ends of the elevator to the stabilizer end tips and drilled. Here's a photo of the channel clamped in place. You can see the difference in trim tab size since I set the small tab on top of the elevator: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/4_21_05_TrimTab.JPG Thanks again for the help you guys have given me. This project would not be where it is without the help I've received from several of the guys on this list. Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ N5SL (Reserved) UnTwisted Now ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:43 AM PST US From: roy vickski Subject: Zenith-List: control - lifting surface twist --> Zenith-List message posted by: roy vickski Greetings Gents, This is a "what worked for me" post, and may pertain more to plans builders and newbies than the pre-drilled kit and more experienced builders. After the first side of the surface is fastened and the skin is wrapped around the other side, one "assumes" the ribs are square and the same length, and the skin is square and cut to perfect size, then aligns up the edges and starts to drill. I hate making assumtions, mistakes, and parts twice. I use an electronic level which has a 0.1 degree resolution, but a bubble protractor on a straight edge would also work. After the first side is fastened and the skin wrapped and strapped, notice that you are able to tweak the assembly by grasping each end and twisting in opposite directions. At this point place the level over one outside rib then the other and compare the readings, when they are identical, wha-la, no twist. I normally drill from the center out on spars, and from the spar to leading or trailing edge as the case may be. I don't know how much twist is acceptable in the tail group if any, but twist in the wing is called wash-in or wash-out. (one way adds stability the otherway to be avoided). Roy Szarafinski Michigan, USA 701 plans ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:45 AM PST US From: roy vickski Subject: Zenith-List: curious about aerodynamics --> Zenith-List message posted by: roy vickski For those interested in an online source concerning aerodynamics, wash in, wash out, twist,check this link. http://142.26.194.131/aerodynamics1/Drag/Stall_Pattern.html Or google "stall pattern" Roy Szarafinski Michigan (winter again) USA 701 plans protection around ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:35 AM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: curious about aerodynamics --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Roy, thanks for the link. that's a lot of good fundamental stuff, very well presented. bob ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:50:05 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Elevator Twist Resolved - Photograph --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" > >Long story short, the twist is now removed since I'm re-drilling the >elevator cutout channel. I just clamped both ends of the elevator to the >stabilizer end tips and drilled. Here's a photo of the channel clamped in >place. You can see the difference in trim tab size since I set the small >tab on top of the elevator: > Scott-- I've been debating modifying my elevator trim tab also. I assume you are leaving the single rib---not installing another as in the CZAW construction. Are you also leaving the MAC trim servo where it was originally installed? The CZAW has the servo between the ribs centered in the elevator.. George May 601XL > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:11 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: neat tool Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:59:42 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: While wandering through Harbor Freight looking to see what I couldn't live without, I came upon a hand nibbler very similar to the Jilson that Aircraft Tool and Supply carries. At $6.49 I figured I could afford to go wrong, and got it. It works pretty well. Not as fast as an air nibbler, but nice edges, reasonable turning radius, and pretty good up to .032 6061-T6, which is almost all we use. If anybody wants to try one, it's stock number 00539. Also, while putting crimps into my instrument panel, I broke my red handled, fat red plastic tipped crimper trying to crimp some .040. (I know, I know, the plans call for .025) I welded three short pieces of 1/4" steel rod onto the surviving wreckage, which turned out to be just a pair of slip joint pliers under the plastic, and finished the job. Ugly, but effective. Does anybody know of a source for metal-jawed crimpers, that won't run me into bankruptcy? Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair Laboring forever on the fuselage ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:43 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Elevator Twist Resolved - Photograph --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Hi George: I'm leaving the single rib in the center and leaving the servo where it was originally placed. If I were building a new elevator I may have added a rib and centered the servo, but there's no sense in backin' up! I'll let you know how it works out. Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com DO NOT ARCHIVE george may wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" I assume you are leaving the single rib---not installing another as in the CZAW construction. Are you also leaving the MAC trim servo where it was originally installed? The CZAW has the servo between the ribs centered in the elevator.. George May 601XL ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:21 PM PST US From: "Brett " Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Elevator Twist --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " Scott More than likely it is just your wing tips that are off. It is very easy to get them off. Mine were.:) Thanks Brett Ray www.hog-air.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:41 PM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: Re: Zenith-List: neat tool --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves Wag Aero has the crimping pliers I believe you refer too. Least ways, I ordered a pair from them few years ago. They are a set of slip joint pliers with hard plastic tips. But to be honest a home made set with either 1/4 inch or 3/16 steel rods welded to a set of cleco pliers works better. This is what Zenith uses in the Mexico MO factory. Be sure and polish the edges so no nicks are transferred to the alum M I missed a lot of the folks at SnF by not getting there till Friday morning. But I sure enjoyed the W.W. forum on Corvairs, and I did get conformation from W.W. that he used a taller gear leg than what Zenith supplied with the tail dragger XL kit from Zenith. (The tail dragger kit leg from Zenith is taller than the normal XL leg.) My personal opinion it could use an additional 3-4 inches beyond what W.W. used. I talked to Roger about it. He mentioned having Zenith exclude the gear (they would reduce the price of the gear from the kit) and have Grove make whatever a person wanted.... >Also, while putting crimps into my instrument panel, I broke my red >handled, fat red plastic tipped crimper trying to crimp some .040. (I >know, I know, the plans call for .025) I welded three short pieces of >1/4" steel rod onto the surviving wreckage, which turned out to be just a >pair of slip joint pliers under the plastic, and finished the job. Ugly, >but effective. Does anybody know of a source for metal-jawed crimpers, >that won't run me into bankruptcy? > >Paul Rodriguez >601XL/Corvair >Laboring forever on the fuselage ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:14 PM PST US From: "Brett " Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 engines..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " Hi all. We are now testing our newest engine. It is 25 pounds lighter (total 176lb) and is making 160 hp. at 4800 rpm. Right now I am planing on running it max at just 3600 rpm there it is making almost 140hp. I'll keep you guys informed. Thanks Brett Ray www.hog-air.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:14 PM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 engines..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Brett, do you plan on putting it in another Zenith product? I'm curious as to wither you're a builder on this list or just another vendor? I went specifically to your booth at Sun-N-Fun only to find out that you sold your 601XL and only had a non Zenith product on display. I was severely disappointed! Cdngoose do not archive -----Original Message----- --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " Hi all. We are now testing our newest engine. It is 25 pounds lighter (total 176lb) and is making 160 hp. at 4800 rpm. Right now I am planing on running it max at just 3600 rpm there it is making almost 140hp. I'll keep you guys informed. Thanks Brett Ray www.hog-air.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:25 PM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 engines..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" In defense of Brett, who doesn't need it, he is a heck of a builder who has come up with something different, very inventive and is trying to make a living at it. My kind of guy. This guy thinks out of the box. And, what difference did it make that his hog wasn't hung on a Zenith? I only looked at the engine, I could have cared less what it was hung on. I honestly don't remember what he had the big bad hog hung on, but I remember the hog. Use your imagination, it really was on a 601. Larry, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 engines..... > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> > > Brett, do you plan on putting it in another Zenith product? I'm curious > as to wither you're a builder on this list or just another vendor? I > went specifically to your booth at Sun-N-Fun only to find out that you > sold your 601XL and only had a non Zenith product on display. I was > severely disappointed! > > Cdngoose > > do not archive > -----Original Message----- > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " > > Hi all. > We are now testing our newest engine. It is 25 pounds lighter (total > 176lb) and is making 160 hp. at 4800 rpm. Right now I am planing on > running it max at just 3600 rpm there it is making almost 140hp. > I'll keep you guys informed. > > Thanks > Brett Ray > www.hog-air.com > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:17 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: BRS (Ballistic Recovery System) --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com Thanks, I'll try to look it up Bob Spudis do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:34 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Re: neat tool --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Paul, I did the same thing. I welded 3/8 solid rod to a pair of slip joint pliers. After bending and sanding to a good fit, I dipped the tips into the liquid rubber stuff you can get a Lowes or Harbor Freight. This prevented any marring on the metal. R/ Brandon ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:57 PM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: Builder's Workshop 1.72 MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID Message-Id for external message added locally --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" A couple questions regarding what I can expect at the builder's workshop: 1. When building the rudder, are we given the opportunity to prime the inside before riveting? 2. If we want to install nav / strobe lights in the rudder, will we have the opportunity to do that? ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:20 PM PST US From: "Roger Pritchard" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun BBQ --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Pritchard" Mark, David, John, & All, Thank you for the good time with like minded people. It was fun talking with some of the builders whose letters I have been reading for the past year. My 601 XL fuse "landed" on the garage floor on 4/20 and I took my first flight lesson today. It's been a good week. Again, thank you, Roger Do not archive > [Original Message] > From: Cdngoose <601xl@sympatico.ca> > To: > Date: 4/20/2005 5:08:29 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun Pictures > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> > >