---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/26/05:17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:51 AM - CH701 0.025" Sheet Layout (Ralph) 2. 04:40 AM - Opening Pilot Holes (A4 vs A5) (The Keeners) 3. 05:48 AM - Re: Opening Pilot Holes (A4 vs A5) (Ed Kramer) 4. 05:59 AM - Re: CH701 fuel tank questions (Roland Smith) 5. 06:08 AM - Re: Opening Pilot Holes (A4 vs A5) (Larry Martin) 6. 06:17 AM - Re: Opening Pilot Holes (A4 vs A5) (Larry McFarland) 7. 06:29 AM - Is ZAC returning emails? (Todd Osborne) 8. 06:41 AM - Re: 701 tanks (Zed Smith) 9. 07:44 AM - Re: Is ZAC returning emails? (Randy) 10. 08:14 AM - Re: hand punch (roy vickski) 11. 09:00 AM - 601 XL Canopy Lock (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 12. 09:30 AM - Re: Is ZAC returning emails? (Brad Cohen) 13. 10:41 AM - Re: 601 XL Canopy Lock (Trevor Page) 14. 11:34 AM - Re: 601 XL Canopy Lock (Brett) 15. 02:01 PM - 801 cargo pod (Keystone Engineering LLC) 16. 08:16 PM - 701 Plans Builders (Cdngoose) 17. 11:31 PM - here's a report on my 601XL engine out sink rate (xl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:24 AM PST US From: "Ralph" Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 0.025" Sheet Layout --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ralph" Yes thet is for shure Keith. 2 sheets of .025 are not enough to build a 701 even without the tanks. I cut out paper templates and spent a week rearranging them before I decided this 2 sheet stipulation was incorrect. Strange it has not been corrected by Zenair? Ralph ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 0.025" Sheet Layout > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" > > > Hello all, > OK you, "CH701 plans/scratch builders", according to the STOL CH701 Materials list from the Zenith web site, they are showing that (2) 4'x12' sheets of 0.025" are needed. Well, I couldn't get everything to fit. I ended up with (3) 4'x12' sheets and (1) 4'x'4 sheet. If you don't plan on building the fuel tanks, then you can fit the components on the 4x4 into the fuel tank cutout area. > > Let me know what you guys have come up with. > > (14" snow today-4/25/05) > Keith > CH701 -- a long way to go > N 38.9947 > W 105.1305 > Alt. 9,100' > > > ************************************ > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. > ************************************ > > > -- > > -- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:00 AM PST US From: "The Keeners" Subject: Zenith-List: Opening Pilot Holes (A4 vs A5) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Keeners" Dear Zenith List: When opening the holes on the horizontal stab, the A4 rivets fit nice and tight in their respective holes. However, the A5 (#20 bit) holes leave a little extra room. In other words, the rivet is slightly loose (before squeezing them!). Is this normal/acceptable? Thanks. Forest K., Rocklin, CA 601XL (N601FK Reserved) Rudder complete/Horizontal stab drilled+clecod ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:13 AM PST US From: "Ed Kramer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Opening Pilot Holes (A4 vs A5) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" When opening the holes on the horizontal stab, the A4 rivets fit nice and tight in their respective holes. However, the A5 (#20 bit) holes leave a little extra room. In other words, the rivet is slightly loose (before squeezing them!). Is this normal/acceptable? Thanks. Forest K., Rocklin, CA 601XL (N601FK Reserved) Rudder complete/Horizontal stab drilled+clecod Forest, Use a number 21 bit. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:32 AM PST US From: "Roland Smith" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 fuel tank questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roland Smith" I'm building a CH701 from a kit. Tail parts nearly done. Anticipating decisions down the road and in reviewing the fuel system I'm wondering if it cannot be simplified. My experience is with a Taylorcraft BC12D, two wing tanks without gauges, draining into a header with float and stem "gauge". I loved it for both it's simplicity and accuracy. The "tube gauge" as in the ZAC demonstrator would be used instead of the header float and stem. 1. Opinions/experience with this system in the CH701 ? 2. Do you think it would be signed off by the FAA if the wing tank gauges are eliminated? Thoroughly enjoyed the S 'n F BBQ and many thanks to all who made it possible. Roland ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:57 AM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Opening Pilot Holes (A4 vs A5) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" yes Larry, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Kramer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Opening Pilot Holes (A4 vs A5) > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" > > > When opening the holes on the horizontal stab, the A4 rivets fit nice and > tight in their respective holes. However, the A5 (#20 bit) holes leave a > little extra room. In other words, the rivet is slightly loose (before > squeezing them!). > > Is this normal/acceptable? > > Thanks. > Forest K., Rocklin, CA > 601XL (N601FK Reserved) > Rudder complete/Horizontal stab drilled+clecod > > Forest, > Use a number 21 bit. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:37 AM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Opening Pilot Holes (A4 vs A5) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Forest, Rivet holes sometimes have a little "slop", but this is taken up during the squeeze and just before the mandrel pulls to final compression on the skins. I'd not worry about it. Larry McFarland - 601HDS do not archive The Keeners wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Keeners" > >Dear Zenith List: > >When opening the holes on the horizontal stab, the A4 rivets fit nice and tight in their respective holes. However, the A5 (#20 bit) holes leave a little extra room. In other words, the rivet is slightly loose (before squeezing them!). > >Is this normal/acceptable? > >Thanks. >Forest K., Rocklin, CA >601XL (N601FK Reserved) >Rudder complete/Horizontal stab drilled+clecod > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:26 AM PST US From: Todd Osborne Subject: Zenith-List: Is ZAC returning emails? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne I have sent them 3 emails now requesting a quote on the rest of my 601XL tail, shipping to me, and a plans update. I have not heard anything back. One email was over a month ago, one last week, one yesterday. Not even and acknowledgement that they received it. Are they out of town, on vacation? Or are they just messing with me? :-) -- Todd Osborne Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com Web Site: www.toddtown.com MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd@toddtown.com AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn@aol.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:41 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: re: 701 tanks --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith A lot of builders don't use the header tank for several reasons. One of the considerations is depth behind the instrument panel....you'll need to figure that one to suit your needs, but Roger at ZAC has no room, therefore a piece of cardboard to keep radio and tank from rubbing. Another is that some just don't want the tank in the cockpit. That seems reasonable. Also, with the header there is the added "fuel management" problem. The 701 is intended to be a "simple" aircraft, not a Cat III, complex, folding wheels affair with onboard galley. Escapes me at the moment the exact requirement in FAR, surely somebody will supply the paragraph, but you are required to have some sort of "fuel quantity indicator". Others will probably offer more detailed info as to how it is being done lately. My panel seemed too thin, from the kit, so I made one from 0.050", welded along top and bent on a brake along the bottom. It was during this process that I did the serious measurements and found that the Icom A200 was going to be really tight at the rear (forward end of the radio). The simple solution seemed to be deleting the header tank and using capacitive senders in the wings. Works for me, but each has his own ideas Three cheers for Orville & Wilbur. Zed/701/R912/90+% do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:35 AM PST US From: "Randy" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Is ZAC returning emails? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy" They were at Sun-n-fun. Maybe you should give them a call instead of email . Just in case there's a problem with your email getting to them. Randy Stout n282rs at earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 -----Original Message----- >From: "Todd Osborne" >Sent: 4/26/05 8:28:11 AM >To: "zenith-list@matronics.com" >Subject: Zenith-List: Is ZAC returning emails? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne > >I have sent them 3 emails now requesting a quote on the rest of my 601XL >tail, shipping to me, and a plans update. I have not heard anything >back. One email was over a month ago, one last week, one yesterday. Not >even and acknowledgement that they received it. Are they out of town, on >vacation? Or are they just messing with me? :-) > >-- >Todd Osborne >Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com >Web Site: www.toddtown.com >MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd@toddtown.com >AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn@aol.com > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:46 AM PST US From: roy vickski Subject: Zenith-List: Re: hand punch --> Zenith-List message posted by: roy vickski Kevin, Try googling "roper whitney xx". The jr model goes from 3/32 to 9/32 the xx model goes from 5/32 to 17/32 but can hande a 1"+ flange. They also make larger ones but the prices get real salty compared to drill bits. If you are thinking about punching spar caps and webs at the same time with an XX you'll probably need the bench mount fixture. And maybe a leverage enhancer (cheater pipe). Regards, Roy, 701 plans ect do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:55 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Canopy Lock --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, I had a major breakdown on the handle for operating the canopy locks Seems the inside separated sufficiently from the outside just enough so that it turned 180 and rapped the cables around the drum. I first thought my swedge end(s) had slid down, but it was only the handles. I put it back together with stronger Lock-Tight, but I do not feel secure that my correction is permanent. Anybody out there use a different lock system for the canopy they are happy with ? Thanks, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:02 AM PST US From: "Brad Cohen" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Is ZAC returning emails? Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 12:29:23 -0400 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" they just returned an e-mail to me today (Tuesday) confirming a conversation yesterday. ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:38 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Is ZAC returning emails? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy" > They were at Sun-n-fun. Maybe you should give them a call instead of email . Just in case there's a problem with your email getting to them. Randy Stout n282rs at earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 -----Original Message----- >From: "Todd Osborne"> >Sent: 4/26/05 8:28:11 AM >To: "zenith-list@matronics.com"> >Subject: Zenith-List: Is ZAC returning emails? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne > > >I have sent them 3 emails now requesting a quote on the rest of my 601XL >tail, shipping to me, and a plans update. I have not heard anything >back. One email was over a month ago, one last week, one yesterday. Not >even and acknowledgement that they received it. Are they out of town, on >vacation? Or are they just messing with me? :-) > >-- >Todd Osborne >Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com >Web Site: www.toddtown.com >MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd@toddtown.com >AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn@aol.com > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:21 AM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL Canopy Lock --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page Dave Kubassek had the same problem on his XL. He just learned to live with it but I reckon he was not happy with the arrangement either. I haven't encountered the problem on mine but I think it has to do with the rotary actuator and the internal lock stop. On my knob I can turn it 1/4 turn and it stops dead. I can't force it any further. Perhaps you should take a look at the bolt holding it in and make sure it's tight and holding the 1" barrel against the knob body. When I inspected the knob upon initial disassembly I noticed that unless the bolt was tight I could turn it freely. The only problem I have with my lock is the aluminum knob on the inside. I can't get it to go deep enough into the barrel to insert the 1/8" lock pin. I had it machined down but I might have to take the Dremel to the inside of the barrel to give it some more clearance. Trevor Page 601HD finished. Waiting for better weather for testing. On Apr 26, 2005, at 11:58 AM, JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > > Dear Thread Friends, I had a major breakdown on the handle for > operating the > canopy locks Seems the inside separated sufficiently from the > outside just > enough so that it turned 180 and rapped the cables around the > drum. I first > thought my swedge end(s) had slid down, but it was only the > handles. I put it > back together with stronger Lock-Tight, but I do not feel secure > that my > correction is permanent. Anybody out there use a different lock > system for the > canopy they are happy with ? Thanks, Bill of Georgia > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:49 AM PST US From: "Brett " Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL Canopy Lock --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " I didn't use the cable system. I didn't like it. What I did was use a small piece of solid rod about the size of a 3/16 bolt. Then I just welded it to the latch. Cut 2 curved slots in the aluminum and let the rod stick out about 1/2" inside and out. Then put some rubber caps on the ends. It works great. You just release the other side as you do a walk around. Thanks Brett Ray www.hog-air.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:38 PM PST US From: Keystone Engineering LLC Subject: Zenith-List: 801 cargo pod --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keystone Engineering LLC Gary To eliminate the need for the cargo pod I put my survival gear behind the rear seat. Access is a little hassle but if I need the survival gear I normally have lots of time. There is quite a bit of room for light items. I have sleeping bags, dried food and blankets back there. I rigged up Adel clamps to hold the tie down straps. Be sure to add it to your weight and balance. When I'm empty I like the extra weight there but when I'm full the CG seems to go back toward the limit fast. Bill Wilcox Valdez, Alaska N801BW 160 hrs Vacuuming the sand out of the plane Time: 07:53:49 AM PST US From: "Gary Craze" Subject: Zenith-List: 801 cargo pod --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" Has anyone had a look at the cargo pod for the 801? Any info on effects on performance? tnx, Gary Houston, TX N801GC ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:36 PM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Plans Builders --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> For all you ch701 plans builders Keith Ashcraft was kind enough to spend a little time and create a sheet cutting layout. You can find these layouts on the www.ch701.com website in the builders resources pages. Thanks Keith Mark Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751 President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:31:42 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Zenith-List: here's a report on my 601XL engine out sink rate --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl Today I flight tested the engine out descent rate of N633Z. I turned the engine off at about 500 feet AGL at about 0.5 miles from the PWT runway. I knew absolutely that I could make the runway. It was an interesting experience. I wanted to do it for some time. I wanted to know how my plane will fly if the engine fails. Today the wind was ~5 knots at 210 and I was landing on 19. And the traffic was light. Several other times when I wanted to do this it was gusty or busy. I made 4 engine out landings. I could not use a stop watch to determine the descent rate. I used the VSI. Findings: 80 mph --> ~700 fpm 60 mph --> ~500 fpm 80 mph slip --> ~1000 fpm Normal landings: I fly 80 mph at idle on final approach and see ~500 fpm. I see ~1000 fpm in an 80 mph slip at idle. Now I know that if I practice engine out landings with enough slip to see a 700 fpm descent rate that I can predict what my plane will do if the engine does fail. The prop did not windmill. It did take longer to stop turning than when I turn it off on the ground. The touchdown attitude was similar to the attitude at idle. No surprises.............. Joe E N633Z @ BFI 188 hours wahoooooooooo