---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/02/05:22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:26 AM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (dralle@matronics.com) 2. 03:42 AM - Re: Cowl misery (Trevor Page) 3. 03:52 AM - towbar? (Grant Corriveau) 4. 05:46 AM - Re: towbar? (ron dewees) 5. 06:10 AM - Re: towbar? (Larry McFarland) 6. 07:19 AM - CH701 Inboard Flaperon Sections (Elwood140@aol.com) 7. 07:51 AM - Re: towbar? (TOMGILES@aol.com) 8. 08:03 AM - Re: CH701 Inboard Flaperon Sections (Tebenkof@aol.com) 9. 08:21 AM - Re: 701 Conditional Inspection (annual) () 10. 09:09 AM - Re: 701 cowl (Gary Gower) 11. 09:44 AM - Kit Log Pro (Gordon) 12. 10:01 AM - 601 XL Flaps (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 13. 10:17 AM - Re: CH701 Inboard Flaperon Sections (Tony & Peggy Pierce) 14. 10:40 AM - Re: CH701 Inboard Flaperon Sections (Elwood140@aol.com) 15. 11:04 AM - Re: towbar? (Jim Pellien) 16. 12:01 PM - Re: 601 XL Flaps (N5SL) 17. 12:35 PM - Re: Kit Log Pro (Phil Maxson) 18. 01:34 PM - Re: CH701 Inboard Flaperon Sections (Elwood140@AOL.COM) 19. 03:06 PM - Re: Kit Log Pro (Todd Osborne) 20. 04:02 PM - Re: 601 XL Flaps (Phil Maxson) 21. 05:49 PM - Re: Flat Table (Larry Portouw) 22. 06:20 PM - cowl misery solution (Brett Hanley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:15 AM PST US From: dralle@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] DNA: do not archive --> Zenith-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com Dear Lister, Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Zenith-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Zenith-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. ------- [This is an automated posting.] ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:44 AM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cowl misery --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page The cowling on a 601HD for example is supposed to be inside the skins but I made mine outside (lower cowling on the outside, upper one under he top skin). Fits better that way on *my* plane but It doesn't really matter in the end. I've been both ways on 701s. Trevor Page 601HD Finished. Waiting for better weather for first flight! On May 1, 2005, at 8:56 PM, Tebenkof@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com > > Dear Experts, > > Today has been less than perfect. Not only did I strip the gears > on my > angle drill (I really should have know better), but we tried to fit > the 701 cowl. > As far as we could see it simply does not fit. With the lower > cowl in > proper position, and tight against the skin around the firewall, > the top cowl > lacks 3/4" of fitting into the "joggle" on the lower cowl, at the > rear end. > > I am not sure if I am making this clear, but I wonder if this > has been a > common problem, or previously unheard of. If anyone has > encountered this > problem, what solutions have been found? > > Thanks, > > Jim Greenough, > 701 without a cowl in Portland OR > > Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:34 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: towbar? From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau Has anyone come up with a good towbar for the Zodiac 601? I need something that will work with the nose wheel fairing in place. This means that if I decide to use the kind of towbar that clamps onto the outer ends of the axel I will probably have to cut holes in the fairings. Before I commit to that route, I'm looking at other ideas... -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:41 AM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Re: Zenith-List: towbar? --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Great question Grant-- that said has anyone come up with a Tailwheel towbar for 601 HDS TD? Ron DeWees N601TD Grant Corriveau wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > >Has anyone come up with a good towbar for the Zodiac 601? I need something >that will work with the nose wheel fairing in place. This means that if I >decide to use the kind of towbar that clamps onto the outer ends of the axel >I will probably have to cut holes in the fairings. Before I commit to that >route, I'm looking at other ideas... > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:48 AM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: towbar? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Grant, I made a clamp with outrigger bolts after seeing one on Bill Morelli's site The slotted forked towbar is self explainatory for this and works really well. This is also a travel stop for when the bungee breaks. See attached address for the picture of it. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/travelstop.gif Larry McFarland - 601HDS Grant Corriveau wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > >Has anyone come up with a good towbar for the Zodiac 601? I need something >that will work with the nose wheel fairing in place. This means that if I >decide to use the kind of towbar that clamps onto the outer ends of the axel >I will probably have to cut holes in the fairings. Before I commit to that >route, I'm looking at other ideas... > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:11 AM PST US From: Elwood140@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 Inboard Flaperon Sections --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com Hello all. I am about to close one of the inboard flaperon sections. I am troubled by the instructions that say to "wait to cut the root until after the wings are bolted to the fuselage". Will someone who has already been through this please give me some guidance? In my mind, it will be difficult to cut the spar, etc, after the skin is riveted. Am I missing something? Larry Wood N701LW maybe this year ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:58 AM PST US From: TOMGILES@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: towbar? --> Zenith-List message posted by: TOMGILES@aol.com On my tri-gear 601HDS I use about a 5' cord looped through the rear tie down. I push gently on the elevator to get started then move the tail by hand to steer. Pull on the cord to stop. Requires very little effort or strain on the airplane. Put the cord in your back pocket. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:33 AM PST US From: Tebenkof@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 Inboard Flaperon Sections --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com Larry, I fitted the flaperons to the fuselage just a few weeks ago, and was worried about the same thing. It turned out to be pretty easy to trim the spar with a dremel and little cutoff wheel. Jim Greenough 701 in PDX ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:20 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Conditional Inspection (annual) Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:20:02 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike, I would only inspect those items likely to be in the air during flight. Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Sinclair To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:13 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Conditional Inspection (annual) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair > Need some expertise from operators of flying 701's. I talked to the FAA guy from the local FSDO and he told me that because I only did a major repair rather than a major change that I should do a Conditional Inspection and make the appropriate entries in the aircraft log before I put my plane back in the air. I received my repairmans certificate as part of my certification last June when my plane got it's airworthiness certificate. But have never been through an annual inspection before. My question is, what should be the process for the inspection? What needs to be checked on engine, avionics, airframe, etc.? And what would be the appropriate entries in the aircraft and engine logs? I read through part 91.14 of the FAR's but that is more general and left me somewhat confused as to procedure? Are there other portions of the FAR's that are appropriate? Any guidance would be appreciated, and maybe I will know then what questions I need to ask next. I would ask my tech counselor, but he is out of the country for a few days (trying to work a real job just when you need him). Mike Sinclair N701TD Almost finished with the rebuild. Finishing the last control connections, adding cotter pins & safety wires, add coolant & oil, and a light once over on the cowl with rubbing compound before I put the new Betty Boop decals on. I Plan on installing the cowl tomorrow and do weight and balance. Then weather cooperating I will be able to pull it out to do engine run ups and final tweak of prop pitch. Back in the air real soon! ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:43 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 cowl --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower It does fits inside, you just need to do a try and fit process to get some excess of fiberglass so the cowl fit correctly. be sure to have both radiators (water and oil) correctly in place. In some cases, like in our plane, we needed to fit the oil radiator lower, and cut some material from the lower front cowling to get inough cool air for the oil radiator. Be carefull, dont trim to much material from the cowling or you will have to repair it... Just a little bit every try. Hope this helps Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S George Swinford wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" The 601HD cowl fits inside the skins. It might be worth a look at the 701 plans to see if it does. George do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:08 AM PST US From: "Gordon" Subject: Zenith-List: Kit Log Pro --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon" I agree, I downloaded the free trial version and found it cumbersome. I set up my log using Word --works very well and is easy to incorporate appropriate photos and notes. Gordon 701 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:50 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Flaps --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, Anyone out there designed and built a manual XL flap activator? Something like in a PA-28 Warrior with a handle. Something to save all the weight of electric motor with steel bracket and bracing, worm gear, switches, gage and wire, etc. I would pay for a workable design that could be retro fit on completed XL's. Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:54 AM PST US From: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 Inboard Flaperon Sections --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" Larry... We held off riveting the inboard flaperon sections until after the wings were in place. Then we bolted the skeletons to the hinge brackets and measured for a good fit. You need to move the flaperon skeleton through its arc of travel to measure the proper clearance. Tony Pierce ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 Inboard Flaperon Sections > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com > > Hello all. I am about to close one of the inboard flaperon sections. I > am > troubled by the instructions that say to "wait to cut the root until > after > the wings are bolted to the fuselage". Will someone who has already been > through this please give me some guidance? In my mind, it will be > difficult to > cut the spar, etc, after the skin is riveted. Am I missing something? > > Larry Wood > N701LW maybe this year > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:20 AM PST US From: Elwood140@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 Inboard Flaperon Sections --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com Thanks, Jim. I needed for someone to give me a nudge! Larry Wood Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:19 AM PST US From: "Jim Pellien" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: towbar? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" Tom, Does this method work on grass or other uneven surfaces? Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic SportsPlanes.com (MASPL) 703-313-4818 www.Pellien.com/MASPL.htm www.sportsplanes.com ----- Original Message ----- From: TOMGILES@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: towbar? --> Zenith-List message posted by: TOMGILES@aol.com On my tri-gear 601HDS I use about a 5' cord looped through the rear tie down. I push gently on the elevator to get started then move the tail by hand to steer. Pull on the cord to stop. Requires very little effort or strain on the airplane. Put the cord in your back pocket. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:13 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL Flaps --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Hi Bill: I pondered this idea for months and concluded there is no elegant way to do this and that's why ZAC uses an electric actuator. I set out to design gears and chains and sprockets and all sorts of mechanical wizardry to avoid drilling holes in my center spar. I ended up with a cost effective electric actuator that has internal limit switches (stops at full travel in both directions) and uses up the entire travel of the actuator. Everything else is per the ZAC drawings and it works well on the ground (not flying yet). I didn't find anybody with a manual design for the XL so you are probably on your own here. Let me know if you find a good idea cause I'd like to see it. If you want to know more about what I did, please email me off-list. Scott Laughlin N5SL (Reserved) www.cooknwithgas.com Installing Drywall (in my basement, not the airplane) DO NOT ARCHIVE JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, Anyone out there designed and built a manual XL flap activator? ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:49 PM PST US From: "Phil Maxson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Kit Log Pro --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" I agree. I won a free copy at an EAA Chapter meeting and I find it a tool looking for a problem. I haven't set up a web site for my project, and if I were to do so, I wouldn't use Kit Log Pro 2.0. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair >From: "Gordon" >Subject: Zenith-List: Kit Log Pro > >I agree, I downloaded the free trial version and found it cumbersome. I set >up my log using Word --works very well and is easy to incorporate >appropriate photos and notes. > >Gordon >701 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:07 PM PST US From: Elwood140@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 Inboard Flaperon Sections --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com In a message dated 5/2/2005 3:05:22 PM Central Daylight Time, piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com writes: We held off riveting the inboard flaperon sections until after the wings Thanks, Tony. Larry Wood Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:14 PM PST US From: Todd Osborne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Kit Log Pro --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne I have been a professional programmer for about 15 years, including a few aviation apps along the way. This is one app I am considering coding myself, but it would be a freebie. If anyone out there has ideas for what would make a great program for tracking the building of a kit plane, let me know offline (todd@toddtown.com). My thinking right now is more or less a diary type logbook, with dates, description of work, hours worked, cost of products used, pictures, etc. And yes, publishing to the web would be part of it, complete with public and private data. Private notes would not get published. It would be template driven, so the output would be as basic or fancy as you want. Any idea's are appreciated. I will probably start coding this later this year, if all my "free" time :-) Todd Phil Maxson wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" > > I agree. I won a free copy at an EAA Chapter meeting and I find it a tool > looking for a problem. I haven't set up a web site for my project, and if I > were to do so, I wouldn't use Kit Log Pro 2.0. > > Phil Maxson > 601XL/Corvair > > >>From: "Gordon" >>Subject: Zenith-List: Kit Log Pro >> >>I agree, I downloaded the free trial version and found it cumbersome. I set >>up my log using Word --works very well and is easy to incorporate >>appropriate photos and notes. >> >>Gordon >>701 > > > > > > > -- Todd Osborne Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com Web Site: www.toddtown.com MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd@toddtown.com AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn@aol.com ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:47 PM PST US From: "Phil Maxson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 XL Flaps --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" You might try contacting Zenith. The earliest prototype of the XL had manual flaps, and I don't know what happened to them on the later model. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey >From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com >Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Flaps >Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 13:01:09 EDT > >Dear Thread Friends, Anyone out there designed and built a manual XL flap >activator? Something like in a PA-28 Warrior with a handle. Something to >save >all the weight of electric motor with steel bracket and bracing, worm gear, >switches, gage and wire, etc. I would pay for a workable design that could >be >retro fit on completed XL's. Best regards, Bill of Georgia > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:45 PM PST US From: "Larry Portouw" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flat Table 1.72 MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID Message-Id for external message added locally --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Portouw" Jeff, I'm a little behind on reading the list, and just saw your post below. I don't know how flat good is, but I got my horiz. stab table flat enough to slide the 2x2 steel beam from the rudder around on it and I can't get a piece of paper to slide under it anywhere. Used 2x4s, 3/4 MDF and the steel assembly brackets found in most home supply stores like home depot. The tough part was finding flat surface to assemble it on (transfer the "flatness" to the table). The solution was sitting in the driveway: the bed of my pickup truck. Laid out the table top and the 2x4s on the bed of the pickup. Worked great. The house I live in was built in 1888-- nothing flat for miles around here except for the bed of the truck. Larry Portouw 601XL Atlanta, GA Time: 06:17:23 AM PST US Subject: Flat Table From: Jeffrey A Beachy --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeffrey A Beachy How flat is flat on a workbench? I have worked for a week getting my table closer and closer to flat with no twist. The edges sag perhaps 1/32". How flat are your workbenches? Jeff Beachy ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:39 PM PST US From: Brett Hanley Subject: Zenith-List: cowl misery solution --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley Just last week I made a mold and new cowl for my 701. I was fortunate enough to have a Chech Republic factory built 701 cowl to pop a mold off of. If you are mounting the cowl mount the top first. The factory built unit is mounted with the cowl outside the cabin skin. Once the top is positioned correctly simply pull the lower section up to match. It sounds to me like you simply have the lower part mounted too low. Brett do not archive Dear Experts, Today has been less than perfect. Not only did I strip the gears on my angle drill (I really should have know better), but we tried to fit the 701 cowl. As far as we could see it simply does not fit. With the lower cowl in proper position, and tight against the skin around the firewall, the top cowl lacks 3/4" of fitting into the "joggle" on the lower cowl, at the rear end.