---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/14/05: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:19 AM - Fuel filter surprise (Grant Corriveau) 2. 05:56 AM - ch701 (john swanson) 3. 06:21 AM - Re: NSI Subrau 108 Hp (Don WALKER) 4. 07:09 AM - Re: Fuel filter surprise (Paul Moore) 5. 09:16 AM - Updated drawings on line? & electrical circuits (DeanMFord@aol.com) 6. 11:37 AM - Re:Zenith 701 Continental 85 (Roland Smith) 7. 12:41 PM - Re: Updated drawings on line? & electrical circuits (Larry McFarland) 8. 01:05 PM - Re: Fuel filter surprise (Craig Payne) 9. 01:32 PM - Re: Updated drawings on line? & electrical circuits (Rico Voss) 10. 04:10 PM - Re: ch701 (RURUNY@aol.com) 11. 04:13 PM - 912 Engine hoisting thanks (RURUNY@aol.com) 12. 06:22 PM - Re: Fuel filter surprise (Leo Gates) 13. 06:53 PM - AOA gauge (ron dewees) 14. 07:49 PM - Re: AOA gauge (Cdngoose) 15. 08:03 PM - 601 XL Insurance Blues (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 16. 10:01 PM - Re: 601 XL Insurance Blues (Randy Stout) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel filter surprise From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau I changed out my fuel filters yesterday. I was surprised when I cut the old ones open to find that they had a paper core. (I think this is not allowed in Canadian regs?? something to do with paper swelling/disolving in the presence of water?)... This surprised me because the exact same units I used the first year, had a plastic screen/core when I cut them open. I guess that's one of the hazards of using automotive parts - we have no specs nor do we have any warning if the manufacturer changes the specs... Can anyone clarify for me this 'rumour' I'm recalling about paper-core gas filters? Also, does anyone have a good inline fuel filter that they KNOW the specs for that uses a 1/8" npt screw-in fitting on the outlet end? Thanks -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:50 AM PST US From: john swanson Subject: Zenith-List: ch701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: john swanson fabing the right wing from the kit where do i position the rear upper strut fitting (part 7v4-4) to the rib photo shows it almost level with top of rib but i cannot find anything on the plans. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:26 AM PST US From: "Don WALKER" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: NSI Subrau 108 Hp --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don WALKER" I think the greater problem on fuel distribution is the Stratus intake... before the carbs. Any carbs on that intake will give uneven flow between front and back cylinders. If that were better engineered, I would be happpy don >From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: NSI Subrau 108 Hp >Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 16:45:53 -0700 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > >AND....I have been doing a lot of research on "proper aircraft" and >associated leaning procedures. > >I have never been impressed with the carbs that vary your mixture for >you. I can guarantee the Bing carbs on the Stratus do not give a good >even distribution. > >I do know Ram were experimenting with a throttle body and I would >imagine one could vary the mixture in flight. > >I think with this setup and a THOROUGH knowledge of leaning procedures >one could have a very efficient package indeed. > >Frank > >HDS 360 hours > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry >McFarland >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: NSI Subrau 108 Hp > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland >--> > >Allan, >Frank's right! Ram Performance would be the better representative for >the Subaru. >I've got a Stratus which I've no problems with thanks to Ram's rework of >the valve guides for my heads. NSI has an atrocious history of dealing >with people despite the attractive engineering that they've done on >their engine. I'd not want to own an NSI Subaru and have any problems >that required warranty or recourse from them. Very difficult doing any >business with them. I'd recommend Rams engines and Ron is an excellent >person to deal with. >If I had do overs I'd still go with my Stratus because I especially like >the redrive and the way it's put together in spite of the valve guide >problem. It's the only water cooled engine that I can back down into an >economical 3.5 to 4 gallons per hour and still fly 87 octane car gas or >100 LL at 100 mph at the price. >If you want to go fast you need the Jab 3300 or the Corvair. >Good luck, >Larry McFarland - 601HDS with 57.5 hours @ www.macsmachine.com > >ABGS wrote: > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ABGS" > > > >Hi > >I am looking at the NSI Subrau 108 Hp engine package for my 601 XL I am > > >enquiring as to what they like and how they proform > > > >Thanks > > > >Fly Safe > > > >Allan > >601 XL > >Awaiting Kit delievery > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:10 AM PST US From: "Paul Moore" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel filter surprise --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" Grant, I don't have a failed filter story, but in Bengalis' books, he states several times not to use paper filters but as I recall, his problem is with water that has collected in the filter freezing and blocking fuel flow. I bought one from speedway motors because they had the best price. It's a canister in-line type with a stainless 10 micron screen that can be opened and cleaned, or replace the screen element if necessary. It is made by Powerflow, #910-11772 and uses 3/8" NPT fittings but they have models with other threaded fitting ends. Here's a page with good descriptions http://www.professional-products.com/fuelfilters.htm And this very long link is to the product page on Speedwaymotors.com http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp/strBase_List.%2791011773%27/hilt.910%2D 11772/source./base_no.91011773/str_base_no.91011773%2C/header_title.Part+Num ber+Search/page_name.base%5Flist%5Fdisplay%2Easp/search_type./search_option. /deptsearch./deptSearch_id./dept_id./dept_id_p./dept_name./dept_name_p./Show Images.yes/sq./cont.1/intPgNo.1/redirect./qx/product.htm I know everyone has their preferences, but these 10 micron stainless filters are the best, IMHO. Paul Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: Grant Corriveau Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel filter surprise Can anyone clarify for me this 'rumour' I'm recalling about paper-core gas filters? Also, does anyone have a good inline fuel filter that they KNOW the specs for that uses a 1/8" npt screw-in fitting on the outlet end? Thanks -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:15 AM PST US From: DeanMFord@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Updated drawings on line? & electrical circuits --> Zenith-List message posted by: DeanMFord@aol.com Two questions: regarding 601XL The on line builders resource indicates that there have been changes made to drawing 6-W-1. I was assuming that I could find the updated drawing on line, but was not able to locate it. If someone would assure me that the drawings are there I will continue looking. Surely I am not expected to purchase new drawings every time they are changes! Second, When running electrical circuits such as for the wing tip lights or lights on the rudder, is it okay just to run a single conductor to supply the 12 V and use the airframe as the ground path or is that a bad practice? Dean M. Ford 601 XL tail complete - working on flaps ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:37:32 AM PST US From: "Roland Smith" Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Zenith 701 Continental 85 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roland Smith" Dear List, I'm a kit 701 builder considering a certified, recently rebuilt Continental 85 with a McCauley metal prop, both of which I already own. The economics greatly favor it over a new Rotax or Jabiru and propeller, my original intention. Any experience with this? For example, could I use the same engine mount as for a Cessna 140, its current attachment? Would the cowl have to be modified? What about leaving off the starter? (I'm familiar with hand propping a Taylorcraft). Roland Smith Zenith 701 Kit 7-5599 DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:42 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Updated drawings on line? & electrical circuits --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Dean, Complete revision sets have, in the past, run about $50 but changes that affect the planes integrity usually come as a notice in the newsletter or by special letter. I think putting too much faith in a good ground between surfaces that are movable is not a good idea. It'll work, but for the extremities like rudder and wing tip lights, strobes, etc, you'd spend better money and effort by adding a ground wire that gets each one to the primary ground on the fuselage. The fuselage will provide a good return for most items if done correctly. Good luck, Larry McFarland - 601HDS DeanMFord@aol.com wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: DeanMFord@aol.com > >Two questions: > >regarding 601XL > >The on line builders resource indicates that there have been changes made to >drawing 6-W-1. I was assuming that I could find the updated drawing on line, >but was not able to locate it. If someone would assure me that the drawings >are there I will continue looking. Surely I am not expected to purchase new >drawings every time they are changes! > >Second, > >When running electrical circuits such as for the wing tip lights or lights on >the rudder, is it okay just to run a single conductor to supply the 12 V and >use the airframe as the ground path or is that a bad practice? > >Dean M. Ford >601 XL tail complete - working on flaps > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:05:36 PM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel filter surprise --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne Look at the Earls metal-cased/steel meshed filters. No glass to break, no paper element to fall apart. Search for this part number at Summit Racing: EAR-230106ERL. $27.95 http://store.summitracing.com/ -- Craig Grant Corriveau wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > > I changed out my fuel filters yesterday. I was surprised when I cut the old > ones open to find that they had a paper core. (I think this is not allowed > in Canadian regs?? something to do with paper swelling/disolving in the > presence of water?)... > > This surprised me because the exact same units I used the first year, had a > plastic screen/core when I cut them open. I guess that's one of the hazards > of using automotive parts - we have no specs nor do we have any warning if > the manufacturer changes the specs... > > Can anyone clarify for me this 'rumour' I'm recalling about paper-core gas > filters? > > Also, does anyone have a good inline fuel filter that they KNOW the specs > for that uses a 1/8" npt screw-in fitting on the outlet end? > > Thanks ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:19 PM PST US From: Rico Voss Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Updated drawings on line? & electrical circuits --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rico Voss --- DeanMFord@aol.com wrote: > If someone would assure > me that the drawings > are there I will continue looking. Surely I am not > expected to purchase new > drawings every time they are changes! Dean, Yes the corrections are there, but not corrected drawings (except 4 pages for canopy). Corrections ("updates") are text pdf files, and it's up to you to decipher them and correct your drawings (or $buy new ones). > is it okay just to run a single conductor to > supply the 12 V and > use the airframe as the ground path or is that a bad > practice? Generally, yes. Except, for the rudder, I'm planning to run a ground wire to the fuse, since the current would otherwise have to go thru the hinge pins. For general elec info, "aeroelectric.com" is excellent source (sample drawings, "how-to's", etc). It's also another forum on Matronics, 'tho it can get pretty esoteric. --Rico, XL -fuse, waiting at home do not archive __________________________________ http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:38 PM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ch701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com John, 7V4-4 is flush with the rear channel and tucked up against the rib. The top of the rib is flush with the rear channel. There is a drawing of this on the next page 7V5. Place a piece of .016 on top of the channel to make sure you dont drill it too high. shows it almost level with top of rib but i cannot find anything on the plans. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:26 PM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 912 Engine hoisting thanks --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com Thanks for all the suggestions on hoisting my engine. It is in and looks good! Brian Do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:20 PM PST US From: "Leo Gates" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel filter surprise --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Gates" In the Installation Manual for the Rotax 912UL, in Paragraph 14) FUEL SYSTEM is a note, "ATTENTION: Dry type filter elements (paper filter) are not permitted as they could absorb water and thus reduce flowrate." Leo Gates N601Z -------Original Message------- From: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel filter surprise --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau I changed out my fuel filters yesterday. I was surprised when I cut the old ones open to find that they had a paper core. (I think this is not allowed in Canadian regs?? something to do with paper swelling/disolving in the presence of water?)... This surprised me because the exact same units I used the first year, had a plastic screen/core when I cut them open. I guess that's one of the hazards of using automotive parts - we have no specs nor do we have any warning if the manufacturer changes the specs... Can anyone clarify for me this 'rumour' I'm recalling about paper-core gas filters? Also, does anyone have a good inline fuel filter that they KNOW the specs for that uses a 1/8" npt screw-in fitting on the outlet end? Thanks -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:10 PM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Zenith-List: AOA gauge --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Hi Listers--There was some discussion of Lift Reserve Indicators or Angle of Attack gauges a few months back and it looked interesting to me since I fly out of a rough turf strip with obstructions on each end. I bought one of Scott Laughlin's probes when he overproduced a couple and picked up a Dwyer water pressure gauge on Ebay soonafter. I finally got a chance to install it today and take a couple of laps around the field. Man what an education! I made my best landing ever after flying around the field one time and noted the exact reading of my stall. I was able to lower my landing speed 5 mph and drop my rollout by a couple of hundred feet. On take off I read adequate lift readout, rotated, increased to a good margin and got out much shorter than usual. I climbed steeper and could see that I had comfortable Lift Reserve. I think it can be used to fly Vx and Vy with a little experience. I really reccomend it as a safety investment. If I took it off tomorrow my flying would be different from now on since I have a better idea of that the wing is doing at different speeds and angles of attack. If Scott will post my install pix, I will send them to his website sometime soon. Estimated weght is less than 2# and total cost was well under $75. If you are planning your panel save some prominent space for one. If you fly with one you will want one. Ron N601TD ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:58 PM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: AOA gauge --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Ron since how to make the lift Reserve has come from our website please send us the pictures so that we may post them. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751 President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ron dewees Subject: Zenith-List: AOA gauge --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Hi Listers--There was some discussion of Lift Reserve Indicators or Angle of Attack gauges a few months back and it looked interesting to me since I fly out of a rough turf strip with obstructions on each end. I bought one of Scott Laughlin's probes when he overproduced a couple and picked up a Dwyer water pressure gauge on Ebay soonafter. I finally got a chance to install it today and take a couple of laps around the field. Man what an education! I made my best landing ever after flying around the field one time and noted the exact reading of my stall. I was able to lower my landing speed 5 mph and drop my rollout by a couple of hundred feet. On take off I read adequate lift readout, rotated, increased to a good margin and got out much shorter than usual. I climbed steeper and could see that I had comfortable Lift Reserve. I think it can be used to fly Vx and Vy with a little experience. I really reccomend it as a safety investment. If I took it off tomorrow my flying would be different from now on since I have a better idea of that the wing is doing at different speeds and angles of attack. If Scott will post my install pix, I will send them to his website sometime soon. Estimated weght is less than 2# and total cost was well under $75. If you are planning your panel save some prominent space for one. If you fly with one you will want one. Ron N601TD ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:41 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Insurance Blues --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, I went through the EAA folks on Friday looking for insurance for "my never been flown yet" obsession and the least quote I got was for $ 2005. per year. Two others were even higher ! Seems about twice too high to me. Maybe I'm not saying the correct things to the broker. Who has a policy out there that is more reasonable than $ 167 per month ? Hope to hear something soon, Best regards, Bill ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:58 PM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 XL Insurance Blues --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" Since you mention "EAA folks" , I assume you mean Falcon (underwritten by AIG). AIG is about as fickle as they get. They apparently have 2 major offices and one will write policies on Corvair powered aircraft and the other won't. The one that will, is very happy to gouge your eyeballs out. I just went through the insurance shopping process last month. I was only able to find 3 underwriters that would insure Corvair powered aircraft; !/2 of AIG, Avemco, and US Specialty. There may be more. I just didn't find them. Avemco was willing to insure my HD as long as it was not in flight. AIG left a bad taste in my mouth when they canceled my policy for installing the Corvair (I had coverage with the wrong half of AIG.) I ended up with US Specialty, purchased through Skysmith (www.skysmith.com). Scott Smith (aka Skysmith) is aware of the dilemma I had to go through to get coverage. My policy this year cost me $1441. There's a lot that goes into the calculation, so it's difficult to compare other pilots policies. Randy Stout n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 5/14/2005 10:03:11 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Insurance Blues > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > > Dear Thread Friends, I went through the EAA folks on Friday looking for > insurance for "my never been flown yet" obsession and the least quote I got was for > $ 2005. per year. Two others were even higher ! Seems about twice too high > to me. Maybe I'm not saying the correct things to the broker. Who has a policy > out there that is more reasonable than $ 167 per month ? Hope to hear > something soon, Best regards, Bill > >