Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:26 AM - Re: LED Wingtip lights/strobes thoughts? (Brett)
2. 03:45 AM - Re: Shop Lighting (Rick R)
3. 03:52 AM - Re: Shop Lighting (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
4. 04:23 AM - Re: LED Wingtip lights/strobes thoughts? (Trevor Page)
5. 04:24 AM - Re: Oil temps (Don Walker)
6. 05:22 AM - Re: Oil temps (Michel Therrien)
7. 05:54 AM - Electric Metal Shears (Mike Hoffman)
8. 06:12 AM - Re: Shop Lighting (VideoFlyer@AOL.COM)
9. 06:18 AM - Re: Electric Metal Shears (Todd Osborne)
10. 06:34 AM - Re: Shop Lighting (Rmtnview@aol.com)
11. 06:35 AM - Re: Electric Metal Shears (Clyde Barcus)
12. 06:43 AM - My First Question to the List, Best Way to Order Materials for a Plansbuild (William Dominguez)
13. 06:52 AM - Re: Oil temps (Larry Martin)
14. 06:52 AM - Re: Shop Lighting (Larry McFarland)
15. 06:55 AM - Re: Electric Metal Shears (Larry Martin)
16. 07:48 AM - Muffler wraps (Tebenkof@aol.com)
17. 07:49 AM - Re: My First Question to the List, Best Way to Order Materials for a Plansbuild (Cdngoose)
18. 08:04 AM - Re: My First Question to the List, Best Way to Order Materials f... (VideoFlyer@AOL.COM)
19. 08:14 AM - Re: Electric Metal Shears (Ihab Awad)
20. 09:11 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 05/20/05 (Grant Corriveau)
21. 09:16 AM - Re: Muffler wraps (Jon Croke)
22. 09:27 AM - Re: Shop Lighting (tmak)
23. 09:40 AM - Beginning builder's tip #8 (Jon Croke)
24. 10:24 AM - Evans cooling (non water) liquid? (Grant Corriveau)
25. 11:06 AM - Re: Beginning builder's tip #8 (Cdngoose)
26. 01:08 PM - Re: Beginning builder's tip #8 (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
27. 02:48 PM - Re: Electric Metal Shears (Tony & Peggy Pierce)
28. 02:49 PM - Re: My First Question to the List, Best Way to (Monty Graves)
29. 03:44 PM - Engine Cooling (Roy Engelke)
30. 03:53 PM - Re: Muffler wraps, & N701TD carburetor overflow tubes (Mike Sinclair)
31. 04:15 PM - Cutting Aluminum (Stanley Challgren)
32. 04:23 PM - Re; shop lites (roy vickski)
33. 04:55 PM - Re: Beginning builder's tip #8 (kevinbonds)
34. 05:46 PM - Re: gas welding (roy vickski)
35. 08:56 PM - Auslaenderpolitik (bob.nuckolls@cox.net)
36. 09:23 PM - Re: Shop Lighting (Dave VanLanen)
37. 09:41 PM - Re: Beginning builder's tip #8 (kevinbonds)
38. 09:46 PM - Re: Beginning builder's tip #8 (NYTerminat@aol.com)
39. 09:47 PM - Re: Engine Cooling (n801bh@netzero.com)
40. 09:57 PM - Re: Cutting Aluminum (kevinbonds)
41. 09:57 PM - Re: My First Question to the List, Best Way to Order Materials for a Plansbuild (kevinbonds)
42. 10:00 PM - Re: Shop Lighting (kevinbonds)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: LED Wingtip lights/strobes thoughts? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " <brett@hog-air.com>
$325? come on!
Thanks
Brett Ray
www.hog-air.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick R <n701rr@yahoo.com>
Dave
As with most others, trusty ole shop lights worked for me but if you take a lot
of pictures for your builder's log, web site, etc., watch out for the trusty
green hue you'll wind up with. (at least I did). My digital camera was able to
compensate with a built in shop light, (fluorescent), setting. I know my son's
Pentax SLR 35mm camera came with a screw on filter as well.
I'm not a photographer so I'm shooting from the hip here!..........
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Rick
Orlando, FL. USA
http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html
---------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Looks like I'm in trouble...
I was counting on that trusty green hue to add a level of authenticity to
the log !
And all this time I thought we were talking about my RUSTY 4-foot shop
lights....
oh well !
Time to start building again - my wing kit has arrived !
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl tail 100% wings in the crate
N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
In a message dated 5/21/2005 6:47:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
n701rr@yahoo.com writes:
As with most others, trusty ole shop lights worked for me but if you take a
lot of pictures for your builder's log, web site, etc., watch out for the
trusty green hue you'll wind up with. (at least I did).
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: LED Wingtip lights/strobes thoughts? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Mark Townsend had a couple of wingtip LEDs at the local RAA chepter
meeting this past monday. They look pretty neat, basically a bunch of
super bright LEDs ganged up on a MAR16 fixture. Mark expects to make
up some kind of mount with a better fitting clear cover to make it
look the part on an XL wing tip.
Maybe Mark can expound on this a bit.
He bought them at http://www.superbrightleds.com/ if I remember
correctly.
Trev
601HD C-DIUS
On May 21, 2005, at 12:57 AM, Graham Kirby wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" <gkirby@yahoo.com>
>
> I noticed that Aircraft Spruce is carrying a new LED based wingtip
> light/strobe system:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/ledwingtips.php
>
> Has anybody got any experience of this product? I'm thinking of
> using it
> instead of the usual aeroflash system. Hopefully it will draw less
> power
> and not have the problem with failing capacitors that was discussed
> a couple
> of months ago..
>
> Thanks,
> Graham Kirby
> 601HD
>
>
Message 5
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Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 21 May 2005 06:23:44 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <d3dw@msn.com>
My Stratus oil temps have never reached 200 even in hottest of summer. Usually
average 170 to 190 throughout the year. My oil always looks clean and no sign
of problems at these temps, so I think they are okay. I have an adjustable door
in front of the oil pan which accounts for the cooling...along with heat shield
around muffler.
Walker HDS
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Lucy<mailto:jpollard@ciaccess.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oil temps
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com<mailto:jpollard@ciaccess.com>>
At 08:59 PM 5/20/2005, you wrote:
>Oil temps is a bit of another thing. With my previous
>EA-81, Oil temps was always good staying between 200
>and 220. With the new engine, it was between 245 and
>258 so I decided to install an oil cooler. I did that
>this week and this evening, oil temp was at 170-180
>and topped at 199. I feel it is a bit cool (people
>tell me it should be above 200 deg). I may block part
>of the cooler with duct tape but I'll wait for a
>warmer day before doing this.
>
>Michel
Hi Michel
I don't think that your oil temps are too cold.
A lot of our big diesels run at 80c which is 176f.
They have giant rads so the temp never goes higher
no matter how hard I run them.
Some may claim you need it at 212 to get rid of the
water from combustion blow by.
If you take some water and put it on a 176 degree
hot plate it will not last there very long.
It is not likely to sludge up the oil at these temps.
Jim Pollard
replanting corn
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Thanks Don and Jim! This gives me another perspective.
What type of oil do you use? I use Castrol Syntech
5-50.
Michel
do not archive
--- Don Walker <d3dw@msn.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker"
> <d3dw@msn.com>
>
> My Stratus oil temps have never reached 200 even in
> hottest of summer. Usually average 170 to 190
> throughout the year. My oil always looks clean and
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim and Lucy<mailto:jpollard@ciaccess.com>
> To:
>
> I don't think that your oil temps are too cold.
>
> A lot of our big diesels run at 80c which is 176f.
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 7
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| Subject: | Electric Metal Shears |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike Hoffman" <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
Hi All,
New member, rudder complete and kit has been ordered. When I cut the skin
for my rudder, it was not as smooth a cut as I would like to have seen. Has
anyone used electric metal shears and would they do a better job with less
distortion to the sheet alum?
Mike Hoffman
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
In a message dated 5/20/2005, davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net writes:
<>
They work for me!
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Metal Shears |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne <todd@toddtown.com>
Never used electric or pneumatitic shears, but I really like the Jilson
snips. Eitehr way, I have found good body file or other files after the
cut really give the metal a nice (though sharp as a razor) edge.
Todd
Mike Hoffman wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike Hoffman" <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> New member, rudder complete and kit has been ordered. When I cut the skin
> for my rudder, it was not as smooth a cut as I would like to have seen. Has
> anyone used electric metal shears and would they do a better job with less
> distortion to the sheet alum?
>
> Mike Hoffman
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Todd Osborne
Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com
Web Site: www.toddtown.com
MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd@toddtown.com
AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn@aol.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com
I started with four 100w bulbs in keyless receptacles and they were fine for
sweeping the floor and such. Before I started construction on the gravity
defying device, I added two 8' HO fluorescent fixtures. They make the 100w bulbs
look like candles. I need no other light source to be able to see VERY well.
Roger Osborne 801
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Metal Shears |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
I have tried air shears, and a set of typical metal snips but recently I
tried Weiss M-300 shears, it works great. It looks like (A little) a heavy
duty pair of scissors and it requires very little effort.
Regards:
Clyde
601XL Builder, Corvair powered
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Hoffman" <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Electric Metal Shears
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike Hoffman"
> <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> New member, rudder complete and kit has been ordered. When I cut the skin
> for my rudder, it was not as smooth a cut as I would like to have seen.
> Has
> anyone used electric metal shears and would they do a better job with less
> distortion to the sheet alum?
>
> Mike Hoffman
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | My First Question to the List, Best Way to Order Materials |
for a Plansbuild
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
Hi all,
Finally after years of research, I recently started my
601XL plans build project.
I have been reading the list for quite a while without
posting. My question is what is the best way to save
on shipping & handling when ordering materials.
My first order consisted on 1 sheet 2 X 4 .016 and 1
sheet 2 X 2 .025 (enough for all rudder ribs including
some damaged ones), the cost of the material was 20
bucks however, along with a pair of snips the shipping
and handling came out to be 28 dollars.
The sheets came straight instead of rolled and each
one came in a separate box.
I wonder how much S&H is going to be when I start
orders of 4 X 12 from now on, is it cheaper to orders
several sheets of the same size together? will they
pack them all in one box, in separate boxes or rolled?
My order came from Aircraft Spruce.
Thanks
William Dominguez
Miami, Florida
601XL, Hopefully a Corvair if not, a Jabiru 3300
.001% done, bending rudder ribs
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
Last month's KitPlanes has a good article on oil, check it out. If you
don't have to use a bunch of avgas, go to a fully synthetic oil such as
Mobil One. It's cheaper in the long run.
Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oil temps
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks Don and Jim! This gives me another perspective.
> What type of oil do you use? I use Castrol Syntech
> 5-50.
>
> Michel
> do not archive
>
> --- Don Walker <d3dw@msn.com> wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker"
> > <d3dw@msn.com>
> >
> > My Stratus oil temps have never reached 200 even in
> > hottest of summer. Usually average 170 to 190
> > throughout the year. My oil always looks clean and
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jim and Lucy<mailto:jpollard@ciaccess.com>
> > To:
> >
> > I don't think that your oil temps are too cold.
> >
> > A lot of our big diesels run at 80c which is 176f.
> >
>
>
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Dave,
Better the 4' fluorescents than any halide lights. I'd keep them near
the 8' level because where I
placed them at 9' to clear a garage door, they become a little dim.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS @ www.macsmachine.com
Do not archive
Dave VanLanen wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
>I'm starting to prepare my shop, and one of the things I need to do is add
>some lighting above the area where I will put my 4' x 12' table. Does
>anyone on the list have any suggestions for the best overhead lighting to
>use, or are the trusty old 4' shop lights good enough?
>
>Dave Van Lanen
>Madison, WI
>601XL - registered for workshop, preparing to order kit
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Metal Shears |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
There is a little trick to getting good results with shears regardless of
the brand. Hold your shears at an angle and DON'T cut to the tip. In
other words, never close your shears all the way before taking another bite.
Use only about 1/4 to 1/2 of the cut capacity of each bite.
Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Hoffman" <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Electric Metal Shears
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike Hoffman"
<mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> New member, rudder complete and kit has been ordered. When I cut the skin
> for my rudder, it was not as smooth a cut as I would like to have seen.
Has
> anyone used electric metal shears and would they do a better job with less
> distortion to the sheet alum?
>
> Mike Hoffman
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
To all the helpful experts (and anyone else with an opinion),
In the archives I found mixed messages about possible ill effects of
wrapping the muffler to reduce heat in the engine compartment. Some seem to think
it causes muffler failure, some have had good experience. There was no
resolution of the question, as far as I could find. I know it is routinely done
in
other settings,
Given how close the exhaust is to coolant hoses, cowl, etc this seems to
be one of the simplest ways to solve the problem. Any comments or
alternatives? This is a 701, but I think on this issue the 701 and 601 are pretty
similar. My engine is a Rotax 912S with the Zenith exhaust.
Thanks very much for any help.
Jim Greenough
CH701 in Portland (81.7351% done)
Message 17
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| Subject: | My First Question to the List, Best Way to Order Materials |
for a Plansbuild
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
http://www.yarde.com/
Sometimes this is the cheapest deal for metal with great shipping. Don't
forget to use the cutting layout diagrams on www.ch601.org to help you
figure out all your metal needs.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Dominguez
Subject: Zenith-List: My First Question to the List, Best Way to Order
Materials for a Plansbuild
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez
<bill_dom@yahoo.com>
Hi all,
Finally after years of research, I recently started my
601XL plans build project.
I have been reading the list for quite a while without
posting. My question is what is the best way to save
on shipping & handling when ordering materials.
My first order consisted on 1 sheet 2 X 4 .016 and 1
sheet 2 X 2 .025 (enough for all rudder ribs including
some damaged ones), the cost of the material was 20
bucks however, along with a pair of snips the shipping
and handling came out to be 28 dollars.
The sheets came straight instead of rolled and each
one came in a separate box.
I wonder how much S&H is going to be when I start
orders of 4 X 12 from now on, is it cheaper to orders
several sheets of the same size together? will they
pack them all in one box, in separate boxes or rolled?
My order came from Aircraft Spruce.
Thanks
William Dominguez
Miami, Florida
601XL, Hopefully a Corvair if not, a Jabiru 3300
.001% done, bending rudder ribs
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: My First Question to the List, Best Way to Order Materials |
f...
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
When you start ordering large sheets (4 x 12) of aluminum, extrusions for
longerons and long pieces of bar stock for your spars, it'll have to be delivered
by truck. You will probably incur a freight charge of at least $100 whether
you order 1 sheet or 10. Try to order all of your materials at once, if you
can. If you don't, the freight charges can easily exceed the cost of the
materials. The cutting layout diagrams at www.ch601.org will be helpful in putting
together your order. Not all suppliers will roll the larger or thicker
sheets of aluminum.
Of course, you will always forget something and need to order additional
stuff, but I would try to get the BIG shipment of materials on one truck if
possible.
Dave
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Metal Shears |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
On 5/21/05, Mike Hoffman <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> ... When I cut the skin for my rudder, it was not as smooth a cut as
> I would like to have seen.
You didn't mention what you used to make the cuts. I personally use my
pair of left and right cutting ProSnip offset shears. (I've found they
work better than the Wiss equivalent: they have more clearance in the
offset jaw.) That and the advice previously posted about not cutting
to the tip gives a pretty good cut that only needs a little bit of
filing to clean up. Hope this helps. Peace,
Ihab
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 05/20/05 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Time: 06:47:25 AM PST US
From: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Water temps and thermostat
> See picture of radiator at this address. Other pics are on the
> completions page.
>
> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/radiatorintake.gif
Larry - lovely job as always! I suspect that those exit louvres contribute
much to your success as many others have tried similar airscoops without
(fully) succeeding. The key (from what I've read) is to provide anough
suction behind the rad...
I've been looking at Cessna-style cowl flaps as one fairly easy way to get
improved suction behind my chin-mounted rad.
Thanks for the photos,
Grant
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Muffler wraps |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
FWIW My 2 cents: I wrap the pipes that come close to hoses or the cowl. I
dont wrap the muffler. I think it's a very effective and easy way to
protect things that should get some relief from the extreme heat.
Jon
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
>
> To all the helpful experts (and anyone else with an opinion),
>
> Given how close the exhaust is to coolant hoses, cowl, etc this seems
> to
> be one of the simplest ways to solve the problem. Any comments or
> alternatives? This is a 701, but I think on this issue the 701 and 601
> are pretty
> similar. My engine is a Rotax 912S with the Zenith exhaust.
>
> Thanks very much for any help.
>
> Jim Greenough
>
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "tmak" <tmak@comcast.net>
I painted the interior of my shop white to better reflect the light from
the florescence fixtures. This really helps me.
Tom Makibbin
601XL
Tail done, Wings 90% done
Message 23
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| Subject: | Beginning builder's tip #8 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Now here's a builder's tip that might have some value for those of you who arent
sure which part of the plane to begin your construction. This applies to whether
you have ordered the whole kit, or are considering which subkit to purchase
first...
I recommend starting with the FUSELAGE and complete ENGINE install. Why?
From experience (just started my engine for the first time last week!) I have discovered
the following results:
By completing the fuselage and complete engine install, you now have something
to sit in; something that makes its own engine noises; something to actually demonstrate
to yourself and neighbors. The pride and excitement you will now possess
of your project, even thought its still only maybe 25% from completion,
cannot be matched by completing any other component (wing, tail, etc). It looks
like a plane; the engine can be started everyday if you wish to remind you
of what things will be like when you are done.
Maybe what's less obvious here is that there is much LITTLE chance that you will
abandon or otherwise procrastinate the rest of the project if you have a completed
fuselage and running engine sitting in your garage. Sure can't say THAT
if you start with a wing or tail.... notice there are PLENTY of uncompleted
wings and tails sitting out there... but how many fuselages on wheels with running
engines have you heard of? WHy? Because completing the engine and fuselage
means you are committed to the project - both financially - and psychologically
-- as the rest of the components that need to be built are immediately attached
as they are completed. What do you do with a wing - if that's the first
thing you build? Hang it on the wall? Your neighbors and spouses will say a
bigger WOW when they sit in your fuse compared to their expression looking at
that tail section under the workbench. They will start to line up and be a lot
more supportive when they can sit in the pilot's seat and start that engine!
I now use these opportunities to 'debug' the engine as it collects time on the
ground, looking for leaks, things I missed, etc.
I still have a wing and some flaps/slats and a million other things that need to
be completed... but what a BOOST in the morale department to know that this
isnt a distant dream.... stop by, let's roll it out on the lawn, and I'll start
it up and SHOW you what I mean!
Jon
701US
Message 24
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| Subject: | Evans cooling (non water) liquid? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> Evans Cool is a non aquious engine coolant. It is now
> recomended for use in all Rotax engines where it is
> available. Check out the following website for more
> information. http://evanscooling.com/
>
I recall viewing this page a couple of years ago and wondering if it would
work as a simple exchange in my Honda-based CAM100. Now I see it is the
recommended coolant for the Rotax.
Can someone who is using it please advise me if you had to make any other
mods? Did you have to change the water pump? Did you have to change to a
non-pressurized radiator cap?
More infor much appreciated,
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 25
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| Subject: | Beginning builder's tip #8 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Although I agree with Jon and did in fact do my fuselage first for my
601XL it is only a recommendation for a 2nd or 3rd time builder, of
which Jon is. For a first time builder start on the rudder,
elevator,stabilizer,ailerons,flaps,wings and then the Fuselage. Yes many
parts will be hanging from the rafters but these are the steps of
learning that a new builder should take in order to gain the appropriate
knowledge to continue relatively problem free. Example, how many of you
needed to ask questions about construction methods on a rudder?
Now with the knowledge you have garnered through the process of
building wings tail sections and even a fuselage a second rudder would
be Childs play and you would have it finished on a Saturday afternoon. I
would rather look back and say maybe I will build another rudder now
that I'm a better builder then to have to say I will live with the
Fuselage as it is.
Plus it is far funnier to see the wife's face when she comes to bed and
sees you cuddled up to your new rudder on her side of the bed. YES I GOT
SHIT FOR THAT ONE !! She was better with the stabilizer.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke
Subject: Zenith-List: Beginning builder's tip #8
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Now here's a builder's tip that might have some value for those of you
who arent sure which part of the plane to begin your construction. This
applies to whether you have ordered the whole kit, or are considering
which subkit to purchase first...
I recommend starting with the FUSELAGE and complete ENGINE install.
Why?
From experience (just started my engine for the first time last week!) I
have discovered the following results:
By completing the fuselage and complete engine install, you now have
something to sit in; something that makes its own engine noises;
something to actually demonstrate to yourself and neighbors. The pride
and excitement you will now possess of your project, even thought its
still only maybe 25% from completion, cannot be matched by completing
any other component (wing, tail, etc). It looks like a plane; the
engine can be started everyday if you wish to remind you of what things
will be like when you are done.
Maybe what's less obvious here is that there is much LITTLE chance that
you will abandon or otherwise procrastinate the rest of the project if
you have a completed fuselage and running engine sitting in your garage.
Sure can't say THAT if you start with a wing or tail.... notice there
are PLENTY of uncompleted wings and tails sitting out there... but how
many fuselages on wheels with running engines have you heard of? WHy?
Because completing the engine and fuselage means you are committed to
the project - both financially - and psychologically -- as the rest of
the components that need to be built are immediately attached as they
are completed. What do you do with a wing - if that's the first thing
you build? Hang it on the wall? Your neighbors and spouses will say a
bigger WOW when they sit in your fuse compared to their expression
looking at that tail section under the workbench. They will start to
line up and be a lot more supportive when they can sit in the pilot's s!
eat and start that engine! I now use these opportunities to 'debug'
the engine as it collects time on the ground, looking for leaks, things
I missed, etc.
I still have a wing and some flaps/slats and a million other things that
need to be completed... but what a BOOST in the morale department to
know that this isnt a distant dream.... stop by, let's roll it out on
the lawn, and I'll start it up and SHOW you what I mean!
Jon
701US
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Beginning builder's tip #8 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
After having built the tail, the wings, control surfaces, etc. most of us
have gained the necessary experience to tackle the fuse. You learn a lot doing
things in the sequence that Zenith recommends. And believe me, you need that
knowledge when you tackle the fuse because the instructions get pretty thin. I
don't think I could have done the fuse first. And I don't think I would
recommend it to newbie.
Dave
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Metal Shears |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
Hi Mike...
To avoid distorting the sheet using shears, we've found that by making the
initial cut about 15mm from the desired line, and then removing the excess
in successive passes produced good results. The edge still needs to be
filed.
Tony Pierce
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Hoffman" <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Electric Metal Shears
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike Hoffman"
> <mhoffman9@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> New member, rudder complete and kit has been ordered. When I cut the skin
> for my rudder, it was not as smooth a cut as I would like to have seen.
> Has
> anyone used electric metal shears and would they do a better job with less
> distortion to the sheet alum?
>
> Mike Hoffman
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: My First Question to the List, Best Way to |
Order Materials for a Plansbuild
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com> Order Materials
for a Plansbuild
You didn't say where you live. But if you live within 150 miles of a
major city or so, you should check out a local metal distruibutor.You can
get most of the metal locally from distributors like Trident Metals or
Integris Metals. You
can check the ALCOA web site to find national distributors or look in
your Yellow Pages under "Metal Distributors" or "Aluminum". You will
find their prices to be less than half those of Wicks or Aircraft
Spruce or even Airparts Inc.
Maximum UPS length is 108", but there are also width and Height
restrictions. See thier website for detials. The 4'x12' sheets up
to .032" thick can be rolled, and shipped that way. Or If you have a full
size car or SUV. 4X12 rolled sheets goes in the back seat of my car. 3
sheets of .025 and 14 sheets of .016 can easily fit in the back of an SUV.
For the long extrusions. I hauled mine home on a ladder rack on top of a
small Toyota pickup. But a borrowed empty fishing boat trailer would work
as well. Or even renting a truck from Lowes or Home Depot with ladder
racks for an hour would be cheaper than paying freight charges.
I HATE SHIPPING CHARGES....
I needed a piece of 3/16 thick alum plate. That I forgot to get for my 701
project.. This week The plate cost $5.00 AND shipping was $15.00 through UPS.
Monty.
If your in the NE try Dillsburg in PA. If your in the midwest. Try
Shapiro Supply in St. Louis, or The Yarde Store in Witcha KS. Trident
Metals or Metal Marts, in the South and Southwest.
If you really have to ship it. I would call the Yarde first. but price
all of the above, The Yarde 3 months ago had 4x12 .016 sheets of 6061 T-6
for about 1/3 the cost of either wicks or Aircraft Spruce, $46 per sheet.
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi all,
>
>Finally after years of research, I recently started my
>601XL plans build project.
>
>I have been reading the list for quite a while without
>posting. My question is what is the best way to save
>on shipping & handling when ordering materials.
>
>My first order consisted on 1 sheet 2 X 4 .016 and 1
>sheet 2 X 2 .025 (enough for all rudder ribs including
>some damaged ones), the cost of the material was 20
>bucks however, along with a pair of snips the shipping
>and handling came out to be 28 dollars.
>
>The sheets came straight instead of rolled and each
>one came in a separate box.
>
>I wonder how much S&H is going to be when I start
>orders of 4 X 12 from now on, is it cheaper to orders
>several sheets of the same size together? will they
>pack them all in one box, in separate boxes or rolled?
>
>My order came from Aircraft Spruce.
>
>Thanks
>
>William Dominguez
>Miami, Florida
>601XL, Hopefully a Corvair if not, a Jabiru 3300
>.001% done, bending rudder ribs
>
>
>__________________________________
>http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
>
>
Message 29
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roy Engelke" <royengelke@cox.net>
Does anyone have such a great cooling system on their auto-conversion engine
that engine temp is a 'non issue' just like when driving a car? I.e. No
concerns while taxiing; cruising with temps around 190 or less? .... If so,
how did you achieve that?
Grant
My 601HDS has a rebuilt, but essentially stock, EA 81 Subaru that is fuel
injected and turbocharged. A turbocharged engine runs considerably hotter
than a normally aspirated engine. Moreover, I live and fly in Las Vegas
where summer temps are normally above 100 degrees. I have no cooling
problems whatsoever. Water temp runs about 195 in worst -case scenarios.
However, this was not always the case.
My original installation was a Volkswagon Jetta radiator mounted and ducted
a few feet aft of the firewall P-51 style. It proved woefully inedaquate.
I added a supplemental motorcycle radiator in the engine compartment. This
helped, but not enough. Finally I bit the bullet and decided to fix it once
and for all. I ordered an aluminum Griffin racing radiator from Jeg's (part
number 475-228185-x). Some welding was necessary to add mounting brackets
and rearrange inlet and outlet pipes. I also rebuilt the ducting somewhat
to conform to some specific rules regarding efficient ducting. There are
more, but some are as follows: There absolutely must be high pressure at
the inlet side and low pressure on the outlet side. This is best achieved
by inlet ducting shaped essentially like a "bugle" with a smaller inlet that
expands toward the radiator. This results in slower airflow with greater
pressure. Duct walls should not diverg more than 5 degrees or turbulent air
separation can occur. The duct inlet must also be an inch or two below the
belly skin to prevent injesting turbulent boundary-layer air. Any open
space between the radiator and ducting must be sealed to force all of the
air through the radiator. Finally, I am using (and highly recommend) Evans
NPG+ waterless coolant. It has many advantages that you can read about at
www.EvansCooling.com.
This is probably more than you wanted to know, but cooling questions come up
quite often, so I thought I'd expand a bit.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Muffler wraps, & N701TD carburetor overflow tubes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
For what its worth, I have firesleeve over all fuel and oil lines, but I also slid
some
larger sleeve over any water lines on the portions anywhere near the exhaust. The
muffler wrap was then applied to areas inside the cowl that were closer than about
4".
The graphite muffler wrap I used is about 2" wide, can be bought at auto parts
stores,
and I stuck it to the inside of the cowl with fiberglass resin. Hasn't melted anything
on the cowling as of yet, after running you can feel the cowl next to where the
exaust
is and feel no excessive heat.
And to all who corrected me on the carbuetor tubes, Thanks. I now have a couple
more
hours on it. Runs great if you don't mess with something proven. I did route a
couple of
1/2" nylon tubes from near the carbs and down to about 3" above the lower cowl
air exit
(drilled a whole series of 1/8" holes on the aft side of the tubes just to make
sure
pressures aren't affected), and I inserted the ends of the short tubes into those.
Run
up were good and engine functions well during climb and cruise.
And a note for Scott L., I'll send you a shot or two taken at a local fly-in today.
Then
you can post those other 2 pictures, and the rebuilt aircraft. Main noticeable
difference is the new grove gear, and the warp drive prop. But those two things
are what
I believe changed my empty weight from 635# to 612#. Quite a difference.
Mike Sinclair N701TD
Tebenkof@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
>
> To all the helpful experts (and anyone else with an opinion),
>
> In the archives I found mixed messages about possible ill effects of
> wrapping the muffler to reduce heat in the engine compartment. Some seem to
think
> it causes muffler failure, some have had good experience. There was no
> resolution of the question, as far as I could find. I know it is routinely
done in
> other settings,
>
> Given how close the exhaust is to coolant hoses, cowl, etc this seems to
> be one of the simplest ways to solve the problem. Any comments or
> alternatives? This is a 701, but I think on this issue the 701 and 601 are
pretty
> similar. My engine is a Rotax 912S with the Zenith exhaust.
>
> Thanks very much for any help.
>
> Jim Greenough
> CH701 in Portland (81.7351% done)
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Cutting Aluminum |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
List:
Several comments have been made about cutting aluminum and the shears
to be used as:
> New member, rudder complete and kit has been ordered. When I cut the
> skin
> for my rudder, it was not as smooth a cut as I would like to have seen.
Whatever shears or method you use to cut aluminum, I suggest you get a
stone as those used to sharpen knives and axes. It will quickly even
the cut and leave it smooth and straight. It also works great on round
areas such as the wing tip. Mine is about 3 by 7 inches and 1 inch
thick with rough stone on one side and smooth on the other.
If my description is difficult to understand send me an email off line
and I will email you a photo which graphically explain what I tried to
describe.
Stan
601 HDS/Jab 3300
170 hours
Message 32
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: roy vickski <rvickski@yahoo.com>
cold weather starts and brightness are an issue during
cold michigan moments (months bordering on years). I
use 2- 8' HO (high output)florescents end to end, 320w
total? pricy, mine were take-outs, if you find them
used verify the ballast voltage.
Roy 701 ect
do not archive
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
Message 33
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| Subject: | Beginning builder's tip #8 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Jon
I have recently come to the same realization. I will be starting my fuse in
a couple of weeks before my wings are done (I have some wing parts fabed).
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered;Plansbuilding.
Empenage done; working on wings an engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke
Subject: Zenith-List: Beginning builder's tip #8
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Now here's a builder's tip that might have some value for those of you who
arent sure which part of the plane to begin your construction. This applies
to whether you have ordered the whole kit, or are considering which subkit
to purchase first...
I recommend starting with the FUSELAGE and complete ENGINE install. Why?
From experience (just started my engine for the first time last week!) I
have discovered the following results:
By completing the fuselage and complete engine install, you now have
something to sit in; something that makes its own engine noises; something
to actually demonstrate to yourself and neighbors. The pride and excitement
you will now possess of your project, even thought its still only maybe 25%
from completion, cannot be matched by completing any other component (wing,
tail, etc). It looks like a plane; the engine can be started everyday if
you wish to remind you of what things will be like when you are done.
Maybe what's less obvious here is that there is much LITTLE chance that you
will abandon or otherwise procrastinate the rest of the project if you have
a completed fuselage and running engine sitting in your garage. Sure can't
say THAT if you start with a wing or tail.... notice there are PLENTY of
uncompleted wings and tails sitting out there... but how many fuselages on
wheels with running engines have you heard of? WHy? Because completing the
engine and fuselage means you are committed to the project - both
financially - and psychologically -- as the rest of the components that need
to be built are immediately attached as they are completed. What do you do
with a wing - if that's the first thing you build? Hang it on the wall?
Your neighbors and spouses will say a bigger WOW when they sit in your fuse
compared to their expression looking at that tail section under the
workbench. They will start to line up and be a lot more supportive when they
can sit in the pilot's s!
eat and start that engine! I now use these opportunities to 'debug' the
engine as it collects time on the ground, looking for leaks, things I
missed, etc.
I still have a wing and some flaps/slats and a million other things that
need to be completed... but what a BOOST in the morale department to know
that this isnt a distant dream.... stop by, let's roll it out on the lawn,
and I'll start it up and SHOW you what I mean!
Jon
701US
Message 34
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: roy vickski <rvickski@yahoo.com>
The airbum article is priceless, welding nuance in
words. Also applicable to tig welding.
I chose a tig welder (lincoln) for the following
reasons.
1. I already had oxy acetelyne and mig equipment.
2. I needed to weld aluminum without flux.
2 1/2. I needed to weld thick aluminum.
3. I had wanted one for a long time.
4. I wasn't happy with my steel gas welds (heat
control problems on critical structual cluster joint
welds,(and I can gas weld complete auto exhaust
systems))
5. I "saved" so much money by scratch building I could
afford one.
6. And this is the 21st century, dont ya know.
I giggle every time I use the dang thing, (granted
after lots of reading and practice) no flux, no scale,
and in the case of the fuel tanks barely any filler
rod.
Which ever process one chooses, educating oneself as
to the properties of the material being welded, care
taken during fit up, and exercising proper technique,
pay off in self satisfaction and air worthy
workmanship.
Roy, 701 plans, corvair, maybe floats, and skis and
other 007 stuff, ect.
Michigan USA
do not archive
__________________________________
Message 35
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| Subject: | Auslaenderpolitik |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bob.nuckolls@cox.net
Lese selbst:
http://www.mjoelnirsseite.de/2100.htm
Message 36
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Now that you mention it, I saw a shop light at Home Depot that was
advertized as cold weather start - good down to zero degrees. I have a
heated shop, and I don't plan to let it get that cold, so these would
probably work fine for me.
Thanks to everyone on the list for their advice on this question.
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
601XL-registered for workshop, preparing to order kit
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Time: 10:55:21 PM PST US
From: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Shop Lighting
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Madison, Wisconsin is a long way from Florida. I guess you missed that,
Craig. So your advice is especially pertinent.
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered;Plansbuilding.
Empenage done; working on wings an engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Or maybe you live in Florida.
-- Craig
Message 37
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| Subject: | Beginning builder's tip #8 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cdngoose
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Beginning builder's tip #8
Plus it is far funnier to see the wife's face when she comes to bed and
sees you cuddled up to your new rudder on her side of the bed. YES I GOT
SHIT FOR THAT ONE !! She was better with the stabilizer.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There's a joke in there somewhere . . . something about a hard, cold thing
sleeping next to me in the bed . . . oh and my rudder was there too.
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Beginning builder's tip #8 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
I second that! Just for the fact that by the time you get through the tail
and wings you start to get a good feel about the drawings. You are right to say
that as you get into the fuselage the plans are getting thin. But at least you
know how they have been thinking from previous sections.
Bob Spudis
CH-701
tail, wings complete, fuslage 70% engine on it's way
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Cooling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
Does anyone have such a great cooling system on their auto-conversion engine
that engine temp is a 'non issue' just like when driving a car? I.e. No
concerns while taxiing; cruising with temps around 190 or less? .... If so,
how did you achieve that?
It took me two times to get mine cooling properly. My first rad was sized for cruise
speed and it worked while at that, my problem was temp buildup on the way
to cruise altitude. My set up is mounted below the belly and the first rad was
8"x21"x3". I had to go to Las Vegas several times so the redrive guys could
work out some "issues" on it. They thought it could handle the power of my motor
but that proved to be another story. While down there I discovered a great
guy who builds custom rads any size you want. These are all aluminum and very
trick pieces, his prices are not that bad either for a one off radiator. Aluminrad
is in Kingman AZ and only an hours drive or so from Vegas. My final rad
is oversized and that proved to be the cure. Also I don't run a thermostat in
my motor, but experimented and found out a restrictor disc with a .625 hole in
it worked. Granted it does take a little longer to get up to temp but no chance
of a hung thermostat to stick shut and bring me do
wn. I do have my motor plumbed to take advantage of the heater being a secondary
source of shedding heat in an emergency. There are more secrets to get a motor
to cool properly so if ya want them contact me off list and I will expand
on those. One final thing, someone should "NOT" install a fire breathing V-8 in
a Zenith 801. I had to try but it is a bit over powered so as a disclaimer "
kids, don't try this at home" is in order for sure....
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Message 40
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| Subject: | Cutting Aluminum |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
I took a power sander to my set of shears. I sanded away the serrated edge
(on the backside of each blade--being careful not to damage the inside).
Snips cut much smoother even if it does take slightly more pressure to
squeeze them. They sort of shear instead of cut now.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stanley
Challgren
Subject: Zenith-List: Cutting Aluminum
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
List:
Several comments have been made about cutting aluminum and the shears
to be used as:
> New member, rudder complete and kit has been ordered. When I cut the
> skin
> for my rudder, it was not as smooth a cut as I would like to have seen.
Message 41
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| Subject: | My First Question to the List, Best Way to Order Materials |
for a Plansbuild
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
If you really have to ship it. I would call the Yarde first. but price
all of the above, The Yarde 3 months ago had 4x12 .016 sheets of 6061 T-6
for about 1/3 the cost of either wicks or Aircraft Spruce, $46 per sheet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wow! I paid about $28 a sheet for the .016 a year ago from Yarde Metals.
They've really gone up. Still better than the others though. Some of my
stuff was $1.85 a pound. Shipping was like $149 from Connecticut to Nasville
Yellow Freight (Yarde's price). Ask them to set up shipping for you at there
discount rate. They originally quoted me about $500 using the carrier I
chose.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 42
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Welcome Dave
I remember the excitement that you must be feeling now. You will love the
workshop experience. The best $300 bucks I've spent on my project yet
probably ever.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave VanLanen
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Shop Lighting
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
<davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Now that you mention it, I saw a shop light at Home Depot that was
advertized as cold weather start - good down to zero degrees. I have a
heated shop, and I don't plan to let it get that cold, so these would
probably work fine for me.
Thanks to everyone on the list for their advice on this question.
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
601XL-registered for workshop, preparing to order kit
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Time: 10:55:21 PM PST US
From: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Shop Lighting
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Madison, Wisconsin is a long way from Florida. I guess you missed that,
Craig. So your advice is especially pertinent.
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered;Plansbuilding.
Empenage done; working on wings an engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Or maybe you live in Florida.
-- Craig
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