---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/30/05: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:23 AM - Re: Paint options. (Rick R) 2. 04:03 AM - Re: Paint options. () 3. 04:03 AM - Paint Options () 4. 07:40 AM - Re: Paint options. (Randy Stout) 5. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: Paint options. (Randy Stout) 6. 08:12 AM - Re: Paint Options (Randy Stout) 7. 09:46 AM - Re:Zenair 601 group (PHFD400@AOL.COM) 8. 09:55 AM - Re: 601 Jab 3300 Oil Leak (kenneth schooley) 9. 03:58 PM - Re: 601 Jab 3300 Oil Leak (ron dewees) 10. 05:18 PM - Re: Paint options. (Peter Dunning) 11. 05:20 PM - Re: 601 Jab 3300 Oil Leak (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 12. 10:37 PM - Re: Engine run-after (Michael French) 13. 11:39 PM - Cortec precautions? (Jeff Davidson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:30 AM PST US From: Rick R Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Paint options. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick R Guys, Any cost comparisons to say basecoat-clearcoat?? DO NOT ARCHIVE --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" I used their one part polyurethane paint called Brightside on my Zodiac. > [Original Message] > From: Peter Dunning > To: > Date: 5/29/2005 10:36:19 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Paint options. > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Dunning > > Hi Listers > > My 601 is getting closer to that time when painting is getting more consideration. > I was at a local boat store recently and they mentioned a new paint called > "Perfection". Sounded a bit like advertising hype at first, but the finish on a sample > surface certainly looked attractive and they claimed a "spray quality" finish by using a > roller. They also emphasise that good cover should be achieveable with just two coats > and the finish is high gloss. "Perfection" is a two-part polyurethane product: see > > www.yachtpaint.com/Images/22_22077.pdf > > I would be very interested in receiving any comments from Listers on suitability as this > Rick Orlando, FL. USA http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:00 AM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Paint options. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Randy: Please see my previous post on this subject. Your Zodiac looks great! Did you find the Interlux prime wash difficult to use? Interlux has told me you can use their single pack primers over regular zinc chromate as well. According to the instructions, it looks like you have to be pretty particular with the prime wash, watching out for thickness, pooling, cure times, etc, etc. Thanks, Burke Johnson Irvington, VA ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:00 AM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Paint Options --> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter: I have also been considering Interlux products to paint the CH701 I have just purchased plans for. They make a very high quality product and I have had good experience with their products on my boat. Their Toplac single pack topside paint is amazing. With a brush you can really achieve a sprayed on look that will last. After three years of sitting in direct sun and weather most of the time, I still have a good gloss. Just be careful of your temperatures during application. As it gets warmer, you need to thin. I have had better luck with it than the Brightside. I was also considering the Perfection product as probably the ultimate, but noted from the product data sheet at their site that it is not well suited for flexible surfaces and may tend to crack in these situations. As some know, if a CH701 skin is anything, it is flexible. As a result, I think I will use Toplac. Interlux tech support has confirmed I can put it over zinc chromate and their single pack primer. They do have a self etching zinc chromate primer but I think you have to be very exacting in how you use it so I may go with the old standby spray zinc chromate from Randolph or Tempo. Anyway it sounds a bit crazy, but with a high gloss, durable and brush-able marine paint I am hoping to get a good finish with out all the hassles of paint booths, respirator systems etc, etc. Good luck Burke Johnson Irvington, VA ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:46 AM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Paint options. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" I don't know what a base-clearcoat cost, but mine cost me about $500 Randy Stout n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > [Original Message] > From: Rick R > To: > Date: 5/30/2005 5:21:56 AM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Paint options. > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick R > > Guys, > Any cost comparisons to say basecoat-clearcoat?? > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > I would be very interested in receiving any comments from Listers on > suitability as this > > > > Rick > Orlando, FL. USA > http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:34 AM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Paint options. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" Prime wash wasn't very hard to deal with. The only thing is that it dries very fast and doesn't flow like the paint does. You end up sanding off the roller ridges after it dries. That's easy on a flat piece, but not around the rivets. Randy Stout n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > [Original Message] > From: > To: ; > Date: 5/30/2005 6:02:37 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Paint options. > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > Randy: > > > Please see my previous post on this subject. > > > Your Zodiac looks great! Did you find the Interlux prime wash difficult to > use? Interlux has told me you can use their single pack primers over > regular zinc chromate as well. According to the instructions, it looks like > you have to be pretty particular with the prime wash, watching out for > thickness, pooling, cure times, etc, etc. > > > Thanks, > > > Burke Johnson > > Irvington, VA ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:55 AM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Paint Options --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" Preparation and environment is the same as required for spraying paint. I did mine in my hangar without making a spray booth. I was constantly fighting bugs and dust. Try to find a way to keep both out. Randy Stout n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > Anyway it sounds a bit crazy, but with a high gloss, durable and brush-able > marine paint I am hoping to get a good finish with out all the hassles of > paint booths, respirator systems etc, etc. > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:53 AM PST US From: PHFD400@AOL.COM Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Zenair 601 group --> Zenith-List message posted by: PHFD400@aol.com Sure I would be interested in your group. I just moved my bird from Florida up to NC, Andrews/Murphy airport. Jim Olson CH601HDS N56BJ Rotax 912UL 280 hrs email: bldr601@aol.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:55:46 AM PST US From: "kenneth schooley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Jab 3300 Oil Leak --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kenneth schooley" Hi Ron, Every auto engine I know of pressurizes the oil filter.......so do aircraft engines, Ken >From: ron dewees >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Jab 3300 Oil Leak >Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 13:38:14 -0400 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees > >Hi Bill, >I have never had your oil seepage problem but can help you with the oil >filter. I use a Pure 14476 that costs about $4 at auto stores. It fits >almost all older Toyota vehicles and comes in a standard and a premium >model that is only a buck or two more. > One thing to keep in mind on oil leaks around the filter is that the >Jab's oil circulation pressurizes the filter before going to the >regulator. A small leak that would be no problem at 30 # pressure might >blow a lot at 75#. I don't know of any other aircraft motor that >pressuruzes the filter. Seems like a potential safety issue, but just >be careful to use a good filter and tighten it correctly. Remember that >the "doughnut" adapter under the oil filter also has an O ring that >could be loose. Make sure it's tightened into the block securely, too. > I use a trick I have read about to safety the filter against >unscrewing-. take a hose clamp and secure it around the filter >somewhere near the base of the filter. Then you can use safety wire >around the screw and back to the the pressure sender or inlet or outlet >pipes to keep it from backing out. > Good luck >Ron >N601TD/Jab 3300 78 hours and all smiles > >JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > > > >Dear Thread Friends, My 3300 oil filter seal seeps a little oil. Notice >after > >long full power runs where the oil pressure gets up to around 90. Do I >need > >thinner oil or is the filter O-ring defective? Also where can we purchase >the > >Z386 filter ? Checked Avanced Auto and they had no clue. Best regards, >Bill of > >Georgia > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:43 PM PST US From: ron dewees "mail=mstewart1023@hotmail.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Jab 3300 Oil Leak --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Hi Ken, Could be we are arguing semantics here or I didn't express myself very well. Of course all filters are pressurized or we wouldn't get any filtering action thru them. My point was/is that the Jab takes the output directly from the oil pump, runs it thru the oil filter and radiator and THEN into the regulator. This puts a lot of extra oil pressure on the filter and radiatior that other motors don't allow. If you have any doubt about this look at the pressure relief valve on the Jab that's located under the oil filter adapter. It opens when high pressure oil returning from the filter and radiator overrides the spring tension against a washer and allows oil back into the block. It wasn't exactly a scientific experiment, but I can tell you that a Jab will blow 3 quarts of oil out in about 15 seconds. Don't ask me how I know this. Most car and auto oil pumps have a regulator built into them or regulate the oil before pumping it into the filter and downstream system. Regards, Ron >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kenneth schooley" > >Hi Ron, >Every auto engine I know of pressurizes the oil filter.......so do aircraft >engines, Ken > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:55 PM PST US From: Peter Dunning Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint options. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Dunning Hi Randy/Burke Many thanks for your replies. We have Brightside available here but the Paint folk were of the view that "Perfection" was a better option for my application. Burke's well detailed response raises the issue of applying "perfection" on flexible surfaces and I am trying to get information from Interlux/International to clarify/verify the situation. I also noted that there is a "perfection undercoat" - YRA, for use on timber hulls and this suggests that some flexibility may be possible. I used a 2 pot primer. I agree with Burke that the CH601/701 does have flexible surfaces so I will err on the side of caution until further investigation is complete. Burke, we do not appear to have Toplac here, but it may be under a different trade name. I will check that out. Cheers Peter Dunning Wellington, NZ CH601HD ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:53 PM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Jab 3300 Oil Leak --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com Wow - this is scary !! I remember way in the dark ages when Volkswagen first released thier water-cooled engines in the mid-70's there were a rash of failures with engines losing oil pressure dur to failed oil filters. If my poor memory recalls, they gaskets failed and in rare cases, the seam failed between the gasket plate and the oil filter can. Why? They determined the VW watercooled engine (at that time) could produce EXTREME oil pressures and the aftermaeket filter manufacturers did not read the specifications that VW supplied for an OEM approved oil filter. I do not know if VW changed anything, or if the filter manufacturers woke up, but the point is the replaceable oil filter and gasket is the achilles heel of a sound oiling system. If the Jab regulates AFTER the filter, that must put some kind of pressures on the filter - or, possibly, the internal bypass valve might pop and unfiltered oil goes right through the filter. My engine search continues...... Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl tail 100% wings in the crate N458XL (reserved) do not archive In a message dated 5/30/2005 7:00:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, rdewees@mindspring.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Hi Ken, Could be we are arguing semantics here or I didn't express myself very well. Of course all filters are pressurized or we wouldn't get any filtering action thru them. My point was/is that the Jab takes the output directly from the oil pump, runs it thru the oil filter and radiator and THEN into the regulator. This puts a lot of extra oil pressure on the filter and radiatior that other motors don't allow. If you have any doubt about this look at the pressure relief valve on the Jab that's located under the oil filter adapter. It opens when high pressure oil returning from the filter and radiator overrides the spring tension against a washer and allows oil back into the block. It wasn't exactly a scientific experiment, but I can tell you that a Jab will blow 3 quarts of oil out in about 15 seconds. Don't ask me how I know this. Most car and auto oil pumps have a regulator built into them or regulate the oil before pumping it into the filter and downstream system. Regards, Ron ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:39 PM PST US From: "Michael French" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine run-after --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael French" You might check for some kind of electrical feedback. Possibly a diode problem. Sometimes if a small electric motor is still spinning (gyro) a voltage is created by that motor and could feedback to the ignition system causing the engine to still have a weak spark. Michael French ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Corriveau" Subject: Zenith-List: Engine run-after > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > > Engine masters: > > After shutting off the ignition on my Honda-based CAM100 engine, there has > lately been a tendance to run-on... a couple of sputters, with the usual > shakes and rattles and even the prop spinning backwards for a half turn or > so... This wasn't initially a problem, but has cropped up over the last few > hours. > > Can one of you engine guru types point me to some reasons/fixes/things to > look for? I don't suppose it does any real harm, but it just shakes things > around and is annoying. > > Thanks! > > -- > Grant Corriveau > C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:44 PM PST US From: "Jeff Davidson" Subject: Zenith-List: Cortec precautions? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Davidson" "I am also using the Cortec primer from Zenith. ..... It dries fast, cleans up easily and is a lot less toxic than the zinc." I'm about to use the Cortec for the first time as I get ready to final rivet the rest of my airframe. What safety precautions are needed? The quart from Zenith came with no label or MSDS. Are gloves needed? Respirator? Water cleanup? Thanks . Jeff Davidson (still the slowest builder on record!) CH601 HD