Zenith-List Digest Archive

Wed 06/01/05


Total Messages Posted: 22



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:32 AM - 701 Plans Builders ()
     2. 04:34 AM - Off Topic ()
     3. 05:50 AM - Cancel subscription to zenith-list-digest (DKSchoonover@cs.com)
     4. 08:51 AM - Re: Fitting main gear (Lance Gingell)
     5. 10:44 AM - Golden West (Richard Vetterli)
     6. 12:45 PM - C-IDUS update (Trevor Page)
     7. 12:58 PM - Re: Fitting main gear (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
     8. 01:01 PM - Re: Fitting main gear (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
     9. 01:17 PM - Throttle creep (Trevor Page)
    10. 01:46 PM - 601 xl Bungee Cord Spacer (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
    11. 01:50 PM - Re: Cutting aluminum sheet (David Barth)
    12. 01:55 PM - Whistling 801 (Ron or Erin Weich)
    13. 02:21 PM - Re:Engine run-on (Grant Corriveau)
    14. 02:43 PM - Another hour in the logbook (Grant Corriveau)
    15. 02:59 PM - Re: Throttle Creep (Zed Smith)
    16. 03:24 PM - Re: Whistling 801 (n801bh@netzero.com)
    17. 04:40 PM - Re: Throttle creep (szewc@direcway.com)
    18. 05:20 PM - Re: Whistling 801 (Rick R)
    19. 05:29 PM - Re: Throttle creep (Jon Croke)
    20. 10:44 PM - Re: Throttle creep (Bryan Martin)
    21. 10:54 PM - Re: Re:Engine run-on (Bryan Martin)
    22. 11:07 PM - Re: Another hour in the logbook (Bryan Martin)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:32:23 AM PST US
    From: <601xl@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: 701 Plans Builders
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: <601xl@sympatico.ca> 701 plans builders , Keith Ashcraft has done it again! We now have a cutting layout for all the .032 sheet on www.ch701.com check it ou tin either PDF or DXF format. Thanks Again Keith ! Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751 President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:34:23 AM PST US
    From: <601xl@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: Off Topic
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: <601xl@sympatico.ca> Hi Folks This message is to inform all that I have changes mail servers and my new E-Mail address is zodierocket@hsfx.ca Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751 President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com do not archive


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:50:08 AM PST US
    From: DKSchoonover@cs.com
    Subject: Cancel subscription to zenith-list-digest
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: DKSchoonover@cs.com dkschoonover@cs.com


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:51:04 AM PST US
    Subject: Fitting main gear
    From: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com> Mark, I had my XL up on stands, and simply stood the gear up underneath. It was really quite easy. Just lay it down under the airplane (I put it on a creeper), put the axel end on the floor and 'rotate' the top into position. It will stand. Now you can lift it into the gear attach points and mark the notches. I'd not install it at that point that you suggest, as you'll be tripping over it for a while yet. I installed mine quite a bit further on. Take a look at my log at the link below... ..lance http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Stauffer Subject: Zenith-List: Fitting main gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" --> <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com> Hello to all, Before I rivet the gear channel to the front and back half of the airplane I got the idea of going ahead and fitting the main gear to the gear supports and channel. This way I can work on it on a bench instead of upside down and it will be a lot easier to take it on and off to file the notches for the studs. Has anyone else done this? Am I missing something? Thoughts? Precautions?


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:44:59 AM PST US
    From: Richard Vetterli <richvetterli@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Golden West
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard Vetterli <richvetterli@yahoo.com> Any Zodiacs going to the Golden West Fly-in this weekend? Rich Vetterli N56DV (reserved) do not archive __________________________________ Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html


    Message 6


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    Time: 12:45:58 PM PST US
    From: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
    Subject: C-IDUS update
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca> Last night I took the time to find the problems related to my engine overheating. First thing I did was to make sure I had a full and air-pocket free cooling lines. I believe I had air in the lines which caused the boil- over. Next, I made a couple of temporary air scoops from some windshield washer fluid bottles and duct taped them to the inlets on the cowling. A ground run up at full throttle showed the temps caming up much slower than before. I gave up after 5 minutes of this exercise and decided to call it a night since it was getting dark and a flight was not possible. This morning I went out and bought a new 13lb radiator cap to replace the 7lb unit I had, warmed up the plane and took it for a good 20 minute flight. Oil temps cam up and stayed at 241 in cruise, CHT was at 235 in cruise and the coolant temp never went past 160. Since it was getting bumpy in the late morning sun I decided to stop until later tonight. I landed without any trouble and after taxiing I checked to see if there were any signs of the coolant boiling. Nothing, jus the usual "tink, tink" of the engine cooling down. So it appears that the temps have stabilized and the scoops helped a lot. I'll fly it like this for a while and if things stay the way they are I'll remove the cowling and glass up a proper set. Trev Pgae C-IDUS 601HD 912UL


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:58:59 PM PST US
    From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Fitting main gear
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:01:52 PM PST US
    From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Fitting main gear
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Mark, here is a suggestion. Wait to rivet the seat bottoms in until way last. They serve no function other than to make work difficult and hide dropped nuts and washers until you fit and build your seats. I cannot tell you how many times I have cussed them while trying to stand or squat to work on canopy, dash, control cables, flap motor, ELT, comm antenna just to name a few things. FWIW. Best regards, Bill of Georgia


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:17:48 PM PST US
    From: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
    Subject: Throttle creep
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca> I forgot to mention that I'm having a bit of a problem with throttle creep on my 912. On the ground and in flight I have to constantly hold onto the throttle otherwise the RPMs will gradually creep up. I've already tightened down the pinch block on the firewall and I really don't want to make it any tighter since that might hinder smooth movement. I'm considering taking out the T throttles and putting in a couple of verniers instead (taking out the lock nut on the passenger side). Any thoughts on a way to correct this problem without the vernier? I heard someone tell me they installed some light counter balance springs to help take some of the load off the Rotax springs. Of course, I'm aware of the crashes resulting from messing with those springs, so rest assured I'm not removing or tinkering with those. Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD 912UL


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:46:15 PM PST US
    From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
    Subject: 601 xl Bungee Cord Spacer
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, Sometime in the past we had a discussion of lose front landing gear bungee cords. Remember ? Seems like some smart guy offered a spacer of some sort that would fit over the front lug pipe and effectively stretch the cord a bit and functionally rasing the nose a bit. Am I remembering or wishing ? The reason this seems important to me is that as configured the top of my front gear main shaft is about 1.25 inch above the top cross brace. The effectively reduces the plunge on landing and nose drop. Anybody out there in Zenith land got an easy solution ? Best regards, Bill of Georgia


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:50:12 PM PST US
    From: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Cutting aluminum sheet
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com> You guys really should try the Olfa p-800 for cutting that gives such a clean cut it is like using a professional shear. Check out the knife at http://www.olfa.com/Products.asp?C=4&P=58 for $8 - $10 you really can't go wrong. The following is an excerpt from an article I wrote about this awesome aluminum sheet cutting solution. This handy knife allows you to do a fine cut without the use of a shear. I read about P-800 in the Bearhawk mail-list and decided to try it. You line up a straight edge along the line you want to cut and pull the knife along it to score your cutting surface 3 to 6 times. The number of times will depend on your thickness of material as well as on how hard you are pressing down on the knife. Once you have scored the sheet, line up the score line on the edge of your table and bend along the line. Bend to 90 and back and you will end up with a straight and very clean cut. This clean-ness of the cut depends on the thickness of the material you are cutting. After I cut .016 material I just have to run the deburring tool along the edge. If I have cut .063 material, I have a little filing to do before I deburr. I have made cuts 12 feet long on thin (.025) material but you will have to experiment. (I use the edge of one sheet s the straight edge to cut the other sheet. ) For thicker material, the cuts have to be much shorter (my max. is about 12 inches of the .063) and you should clamp the cut line between some wooden blocks in your vice. It sounds crude but it was much cleaner, with less material waste than cutting the parts in the bandsaw. When doing flap ribs for my 601 XL project I cut the first rib blank with snips and finished the edges. Then I used that rib blank as the straight edge to score out all my other rib blanks. It worked like a charm and you can make one cut be the edge for two parts. This works great for cutting a shape out of the interior of a sheet part as well. I had to make a wide slot (60 mm) with rounded ends in one piece of sheet. First I marked it out, then drilled pilot holes before using the fly cutter to make 60 mm diameter holes at both ends of the slot. Then I used a straight edge to score a line tangent to both holes on each side of the slot. At that point I couldnt make the bends to snap out the parts so I used the tin snips to rough cut a line down the center of the slot. Then I could break out the excess material on either side of the slot. Of course the point where the knife cut meets the tangent of the circles isnt very clean but for this slot I only had 4 small spots that required a few seconds of filing. I also used it to do the cut-outs for the aileron bell crank access panel and for so mony other cutting jobs. You often pull the knife right off the edge of the sheet you are cutting. This can cause damage to the surface you are cutting on so stay off the dining room table. I slip a small piece of arborite off an old kitchen counter under my cutting area. You can buy the P-800 in the tool section at Home Depot. Happy cutting. David "John M. Goodings" <goodings@yorku.ca> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John M. Goodings" By and large, I don't like shears/snips. I made a wooden handle for a 10-inch hack saw blade. With this, I can cut right up to the line without any distortion of the Al sheet near the edge. It is easy to work near the David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? Working on Wings www.ch601.org --------------------------------- Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!


    Message 12


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    Time: 01:55:38 PM PST US
    From: Ron or Erin Weich <iveyvet01@sprynet.com>
    Subject: Whistling 801
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron or Erin Weich <iveyvet01@sprynet.com> Greetings Listers, I recently took a friend up for a ride in my 801 and he loved it. His one fault was the high pitch whistling at cruise speed which, of course, ANR headsets don't really cancel out. I have always just assumed that was the price of having slats on the wings, but I thought I would pose the question anyway: Do all 701's and 801's whistle? If so, is it the slats or the Junker flaperons or some combination? Thanks, Ron Weich N801TB Las Cruces, NM


    Message 13


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    Time: 02:21:23 PM PST US
    Subject: Re:Engine run-on
    From: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> Thanks all for the ideas. My CAM100 has electronic ignition, so no adjustments to make there. I suspect that the culprit is the carburator as the aircraft did sit for the last two years in the garage. I probably accumlated a bit of contamination from improper fuel-storage 'stabilization'. That and my idle speed screw adjustment needs to be set down to the minimum again - somewhere it got set up a bit faster. Hopefully that will work - if not - I'll keep trying... -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:43:27 PM PST US
    Subject: Another hour in the logbook
    From: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> I added another hour to my logbook today rebuilding confidence in the CAM100 engine. Cruise speed at 2,500 asl +15C (60F), using 5,000RPM was 110 mph. I had a couple hundred rpm left at that altitude, but I wasn't interested in pushing things today. (The prop should be set at 16 degrees - but I have to recheck that). The engine runs very smoothly, but there seems to be more airframe vibes at speeds above 105mph.... maybe from the large cowl underlip that provides the suction for the radiator??? Or maybe I've just gotten too used to jet engines!!?? Engine is reported to be quiet with the new muffler. My new canopy works well, but at higher speeds the rubber seals are getting sucked outwards in the gap along the longeron -- I'll improve this by overlapping on the inside or using more of a 'squash' type weather seal - but if I seal it too well, then I may block the ventilation coming in. I think some of you have cut a vent hole in the back of the baggage shelf wall - and even installed a vent fan in some cases....? I gave myself a little 'fright' along the way. I noticed a rather sudden and pronounced left wing down tendancy and thought 'oh oh - that's not good...' A quick look around showed me that I had unknowingly run the trim to full Left Wing Down! This is not the first time I've inadvertantly run these tiny trim switches full travel and given myself a 'start'!! ;-0 FWIW, I wouldn't choose this MAC control grip / tiny-trim switchs again if I was starting over. I am happy with my 'chopped' control column - You could say I converted the 'Y' stick into an 'iStick' .... still plenty of leverage to control the airplane, and better room for my long legs. -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100


    Message 15


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    Time: 02:59:08 PM PST US
    From: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Throttle Creep
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net> You might consult with Jon Croke before diddling with the throttle springs. 'Nuff said about that. After much thought, trial-and-error, etc, I bit the bullet and ordered the A-750 from Spruce. You would need to do some serious measuring before ordering......they come standard in pre-set lengths. I ended up ordering a "special" length. Mo money, mo time. Would NOT advise the A-790. It has only a solid wire end and is not a sure-fire connection to your carbs. (See catalog pages under "attaching hardware..." These things may slip/come loose in flight.) Dual trottles, laid out as in ZAC plans, might require some basic redesign of you approach to throttle control. I'm using a single control on the R912, using the same geometry as ZAC. If you have the Rotax manual available it has spec on travel required for both throttle and choke, but because of the tension of the return springs you may find it necessary to use some 'mechanical advantage'. Note the dimensions on ZAC plans. Thin steel tubing gets easier to weld after you make three or four really bad mock-ups. Cheers, Zed


    Message 16


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    Time: 03:24:32 PM PST US
    From: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
    Subject: Re: Whistling 801
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com> Greetings Listers, I recently took a friend up for a ride in my 801 and he loved it. His one fault was the high pitch whistling at cruise speed which, of course, ANR headsets don't really cancel out. I have always just assumed that was the price of having slats on the wings, but I thought I would pose the question anyway: Do all 701's and 801's whistle? If so, is it the slats or the Junker flaperons or some combination? Thanks, Ron Weich N801TB Las Cruces, NM ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// My 801 doesn't whistle, or at least I haven't heard it. I have not installed any floor carpeting or side panel coverings and my plane is VERY noisy inside while flying, in fact I cannot talk to passengers cause of the cabin noise level without using the intercom. Probably that darn V-8 up front, <G>. I do use Lightspeed 20-3-G headsets and they cancel out alot of background noise. Can you narrow down the location of your whistling??? Could it be air exiting out of the cabin through the rear panel, thats the one directly behind the luggage shelf.. If it were the slats I would think a pitch change should change the noise, same with the flaperons, you should be able to bank the plane and change the airflow around them, that should alter the whistling to some extent. Let us know what ya find out. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com


    Message 17


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    Time: 04:40:11 PM PST US
    From: szewc@direcway.com
    Subject: Re: Throttle creep
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: szewc@direcway.com I left the springs alone on the 912 carbs and installed a long weak spring under panel connected from the edge of the panel to the standard throttle rod that ZAC supplied back towards the firewall. The result is that I need very little friction on the throttle control. This is important on the 912ULS in a 701 because it is sensitive to power adjustments. I don't have any throttle creep either. Ken N701SZ 109 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca> Subject: Zenith-List: Throttle creep > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca> > > I forgot to mention that I'm having a bit of a problem with > throttle > creep on my 912. On the ground and in flight I have to constantly > hold onto the throttle otherwise the RPMs will gradually creep up. > > I've already tightened down the pinch block on the firewall and I > really don't want to make it any tighter since that might hinder > smooth movement. I'm considering taking out the T throttles and > putting in a couple of verniers instead (taking out the lock nut > on > the passenger side). > > Any thoughts on a way to correct this problem without the vernier? > I > heard someone tell me they installed some light counter balance > springs to help take some of the load off the Rotax springs. Of > course, I'm aware of the crashes resulting from messing with those > > springs, so rest assured I'm not removing or tinkering with those. > > Trev Page > C-IDUS 601HD 912UL > > > > > > >


    Message 18


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    Time: 05:20:50 PM PST US
    From: Rick R <n701rr@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Whistling 801
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick R <n701rr@yahoo.com> Guys, I used to fly a Cessna 140 that whistled on downwind at powerback through final. Everyone blamed it on the vacuum venturi hanging out...I dunno.... DO NOT ARCHIVE "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" Greetings Listers, I recently took a friend up for a ride in my 801 and he loved it. His one fault was the high pitch whistling at cruise speed which, of course, ANR headsets don't really cancel out. I have always just assumed that was the price of having slats on the wings, but I thought I would pose the question anyway: Do all 701's and 801's whistle? If so, is it the slats or the Junker flaperons or some combination? Thanks, Ron Weich N801TB Las Cruces, NM ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Rick Orlando, FL. USA http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html


    Message 19


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    Time: 05:29:43 PM PST US
    From: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
    Subject: Re: Throttle creep
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com> Subject: Zenith-List: Throttle creep > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca> > > course, I'm aware of the crashes resulting from messing with those > springs, so rest assured I'm not removing or tinkering with those. > I have alarms programmed to go off in my home when I hear 'springs' and 'crahses' in the same sentence! I'm glad to see the software really works! I have solved my problem with this issue by utilizing a Wicks aircraft product that replaces the solid T handle with a control cable and knob that has a button in the middle that locks the travel in either direction. (watched for the tiny steel ball inside that does the majic) Maybe this is what they call venier... not sure. But in the meanime I havent come within 5 feet of those throttle springs as they need to do their job of adequately pulling the cable in any direction it wants to... I'm not arguing. Zed told me so. Jon


    Message 20


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    Time: 10:44:12 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Throttle creep
    From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> I installed a single vernier throttle in my plane. I don't see how you could install dual throttles if one of them is a vernier type, you would not be able to move the non vernier throttle against the vernier mechanism of the other. I have sat in the left seat of my plane and found that it is not difficult to reach the throttle on the right side of the panel, I just have to switch hands on the stick. I have not tried this in flight though. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca> > > I forgot to mention that I'm having a bit of a problem with throttle > creep on my 912. On the ground and in flight I have to constantly > hold onto the throttle otherwise the RPMs will gradually creep up. > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive.


    Message 21


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    Time: 10:54:12 PM PST US
    Subject: Re:Engine run-on
    From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> If gasoline sits for a long period in an unsealed container, some of the lighter compounds can evaporate. This can cause the octane rating of the fuel to decrease as these lighter compounds tend to have higher octane ratings than the heavier compounds. That could be the cause of the run-on. on 6/1/05 5:17 PM, Grant Corriveau at grantc@ca.inter.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> > > Thanks all for the ideas. > > My CAM100 has electronic ignition, so no adjustments to make there. I > suspect that the culprit is the carburator as the aircraft did sit for the > last two years in the garage. I probably accumlated a bit of contamination > from improper fuel-storage 'stabilization'. That and my idle speed screw > adjustment needs to be set down to the minimum again - somewhere it got set > up a bit faster. > > Hopefully that will work - if not - I'll keep trying... -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive.


    Message 22


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    Time: 11:07:15 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Another hour in the logbook
    From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> In my plane, air enters the cabin from the tail cone (by way of the cable tunnel between the seats) and exits from the gaps under the canopy. Cutting a vent at the back of the baggage compartment isn't likely to improve airflow coming through the panel vents up front. I would suggest closing off the gaps under the canopy in the Winter and leaving them more open in the Summer. on 6/1/05 5:40 PM, Grant Corriveau at grantc@ca.inter.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> > > My new canopy works well, but at higher speeds the rubber seals are getting > sucked outwards in the gap along the longeron -- I'll improve this by > overlapping on the inside or using more of a 'squash' type weather seal - > but if I seal it too well, then I may block the ventilation coming in. I > think some of you have cut a vent hole in the back of the baggage shelf wall > - and even installed a vent fan in some cases....? > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive.




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