Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:29 AM - Plans revisions (Terry Turnquist)
2. 05:47 AM - Re: Plans revisions (Hunt Malcolm)
3. 06:00 AM - Re: Plans revisions (Don Mountain)
4. 07:42 AM - Re: Fuel line protection needed? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
5. 08:06 AM - Re: Fuel line protection needed? (Craig Payne)
6. 08:50 AM - Re: Fuel line protection needed? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
7. 08:57 AM - Re: Unbelievable ------crashUnbelieveable ------crash (Tommy Walker)
8. 09:25 AM - Re: Plans revisions (William Dominguez)
9. 09:50 AM - Re: pitot location (Kent Brown)
10. 10:07 AM - Re: Plans revisions (Andrew Ackland)
11. 10:10 AM - Re: Fuel line protection needed? (Leo Corbalis)
12. 11:00 AM - Re: Fuel line protection needed? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
13. 12:43 PM - Landing/Taxi lights HID, Luxeon LED, Halogen. info (Lincoln Probst)
14. 02:11 PM - Re: Fuel line protection needed? (Jim and Lucy)
15. 02:56 PM - Re: Fuel line protection needed? (Peter Dunning)
16. 03:20 PM - Re: Fuel line protection needed? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
17. 03:25 PM - Re: Fuel line protection needed? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
18. 03:51 PM - Re: Prop needed. (Thilo Kind)
19. 04:14 PM - Re: Fuel line protection needed? (Bryan Martin)
20. 06:21 PM - Re: Fuel line protection needed? (Clyde Barcus)
21. 07:26 PM - Re: Fuel line protection needed? (David Alberti)
22. 07:59 PM - Re: Re: Updated Drawings (Zodie Rocket)
23. 08:31 PM - Re: Fuel line protection needed? (Jerry Latimer)
24. 09:13 PM - Re: Fuel line protection needed? (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Terry Turnquist <ter_turn@yahoo.com>
Hi All,
How are you guys getting these plans changes from Zenith you're discussing? Do
you have to be a kit owner or will plans suffice? Thanks.
Terry Turnquist
601 XL (Plans)
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" <Malcolm.HUNT@networkrail.co.uk>
Terry
The list of drawing amendments are in the builders section of the Zenithair website www.zenithair.com. Go to the builders section and then Zodiac XL and Latest Drawing Updates. This will give details but not updated drawings, these can be purchased for $75!! All welcome to purchase.
It is a pity that there is not a comment column giving reason for change - anyone
from Zenith Aircraft reading this how about it!! This will save a lot of worry
for builders and a lot of e-mails.
Best regards
Malcolm Hunt
CH601XL plans building in England
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terry
Turnquist
Subject: Zenith-List: Plans revisions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Terry Turnquist <ter_turn@yahoo.com>
Hi All,
How are you guys getting these plans changes from Zenith you're discussing? Do
you have to be a kit owner or will plans suffice? Thanks.
Terry Turnquist
601 XL (Plans)
Your attention is drawn to the fact that this email originated from a source external
to Network Rail.
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Liability cannot be accepted for statements made which are clearly the senders
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Plans revisions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Plan and Manual page revisions are prezented on
Zenith's web pages under the Builder section:
http://www.zenithair.com/bldr/bldr.htm
You need your password to get into that section, which
you should have received when you purchased your plan
set.
> How are you guys getting these plans changes from
> Zenith you're discussing? Do you have to be a kit
> owner or will plans suffice? Thanks.
>
> Terry Turnquist
> 601 XL (Plans)
Don Davis
601 XL
tail done, wing flaps and ailerons done, working on
wing frames
Message 4
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| Subject: | Fuel line protection needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yes the Facet pumps do indeed have a check valve...It doesn't work too
well on the 40105 and 40106 series of pumps however. I have additional
checks valves in my feed from each pump.
All of this is true as long as we are simply talking low pressure carb
pumps....Hi pressure rotorvane style FI pumps are a different
story...And I don't know much about them...Yet...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel line protection needed?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Not to belabor this point, but I agree there are many views and respect
everyone's input.
I wanted to add that the head Rotax guru (employed by the Rotax factory
technical support company) has stated repeatedly that it is OK to plumb
an additional electric pump in series with the mechanical one on the 912
family. The Rotax mechanical one is designed to safely push fuel thru
when not running and has no check valve. (It is a common auto design).
Many of the popular electric pumps, I believe, have check valves in
them.
(please correct me if Im wrong on this).
Just another thought.
do not archive
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Dunning <peterd@metec.co.nz>
>
> Hi Frank
> This subject can certainly bring forth a variety of views, but I have
> yet to find a reason to place a secondary fuel pump in SERIES with a
> mechanical pump, given that mechanical fuel pumps can (and do) fail. I
> refer to my Rotax 912S in saying that. A check valve should also be
> employed IMO to avoid any possibility of fuel circulation too.
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line protection needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
According to the chart at the following link Facet does not claim that
the 40105 and 40106 have check valves:
http://www.facet-purolator.com/mcl/media/technology/hd_pdfs/Cubed_Solid.pdf
-- Craig
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Yes the Facet pumps do indeed have a check valve...It doesn't work too
> well on the 40105 and 40106 series of pumps however. I have additional
> checks valves in my feed from each pump.
>
> All of this is true as long as we are simply talking low pressure carb
> pumps....Hi pressure rotorvane style FI pumps are a different
> story...And I don't know much about them...Yet...:)
>
> Frank
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel line protection needed?
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
> Not to belabor this point, but I agree there are many views and respect
> everyone's input.
>
> I wanted to add that the head Rotax guru (employed by the Rotax factory
> technical support company) has stated repeatedly that it is OK to plumb
> an additional electric pump in series with the mechanical one on the 912
> family. The Rotax mechanical one is designed to safely push fuel thru
> when not running and has no check valve. (It is a common auto design).
>
> Many of the popular electric pumps, I believe, have check valves in
> them.
> (please correct me if Im wrong on this).
>
> Just another thought.
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Dunning <peterd@metec.co.nz>
>>
>>Hi Frank
>>This subject can certainly bring forth a variety of views, but I have
>>yet to find a reason to place a secondary fuel pump in SERIES with a
>>mechanical pump, given that mechanical fuel pumps can (and do) fail. I
>
>
>>refer to my Rotax 912S in saying that. A check valve should also be
>>employed IMO to avoid any possibility of fuel circulation too.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fuel line protection needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Probably why fuel backflows thru them pretty good then...:)
What I can tell you is the '105 pumps do not make enough pressure with
low wing tanks only and 100HP's worth of fuel flow so you want the
'106's...Or a pump that claims the same performance with a check valve.
Bottom line, a 106 (with an external check valve) works great.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel line protection needed?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
According to the chart at the following link Facet does not claim that
the 40105 and 40106 have check valves:
http://www.facet-purolator.com/mcl/media/technology/hd_pdfs/Cubed_Solid.
pdf
-- Craig
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> --> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Yes the Facet pumps do indeed have a check valve...It doesn't work too
> well on the 40105 and 40106 series of pumps however. I have additional
> checks valves in my feed from each pump.
>
> All of this is true as long as we are simply talking low pressure carb
> pumps....Hi pressure rotorvane style FI pumps are a different
> story...And I don't know much about them...Yet...:)
>
> Frank
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel line protection needed?
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
> Not to belabor this point, but I agree there are many views and
> respect everyone's input.
>
> I wanted to add that the head Rotax guru (employed by the Rotax
> factory technical support company) has stated repeatedly that it is
> OK to plumb an additional electric pump in series with the mechanical
> one on the 912 family. The Rotax mechanical one is designed to safely
> push fuel thru when not running and has no check valve. (It is a
common auto design).
>
> Many of the popular electric pumps, I believe, have check valves in
> them.
> (please correct me if Im wrong on this).
>
> Just another thought.
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Dunning <peterd@metec.co.nz>
>>
>>Hi Frank
>>This subject can certainly bring forth a variety of views, but I have
>>yet to find a reason to place a secondary fuel pump in SERIES with a
>>mechanical pump, given that mechanical fuel pumps can (and do) fail. I
>
>
>>refer to my Rotax 912S in saying that. A check valve should also be
>>employed IMO to avoid any possibility of fuel circulation too.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Unbelievable ------crashUnbelieveable ------crash |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
"...Maybe you can force the kid
from the 172 to help out as payment for his stupidity.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario"
If you choose to do that, I'd watch him/her closely.
;>)
Do Not Archive
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Plans revisions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
I didn't receive a user id and password with my plan
set or at least, I havent been able to find them.
Appreciate if anyone can tell me where they are?
William Dominguez
Miami, Florida
601XL (plans), Hopefully a Corvair if not, a Jabiru
3300
.001% done, finished bending rudder ribs
--- Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain
> <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> Plan and Manual page revisions are prezented on
> Zenith's web pages under the Builder section:
>
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldr/bldr.htm
>
> You need your password to get into that section,
> which
> you should have received when you purchased your
> plan
> set.
>
> > How are you guys getting these plans changes from
> > Zenith you're discussing? Do you have to be a kit
> > owner or will plans suffice? Thanks.
> >
> > Terry Turnquist
> > 601 XL (Plans)
>
> Don Davis
> 601 XL
> tail done, wing flaps and ailerons done, working on
> wing frames
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown" <kentbrown@verizon.net>
ZAC recommended to me that I put the pitot ahead of the main spar between
the inboard rib and the new (7A?) rib that goes inboard of the LE tank. Not
flying yet, so no info on performance.
Kent Brown
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sandidge
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 4:30 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: pitot location
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sandidge <gmsandidge@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi all, working on final stages of 601HDS wings and need info on where
> the best location for the pitot tube. I had an old fax from Zac showing
> between ribs 6 and 7 forward of the main spar. I have since decided to
> install leading edge tanks so rib 7 has moved and this location is out.
>
> Thanks
> Mark Sandidge
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Andrew Ackland" <andrewack@clara.co.uk>
William,
Go to http://www.zenithair.com/bldr.htm and register. Zenith will send you
a username and password to enter the builders pages.
Andy Ackland
Reading, UK
601HD Kit
Tail nearly done
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Dominguez
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Plans revisions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
I didn't receive a user id and password with my plan
set or at least, I havent been able to find them.
Appreciate if anyone can tell me where they are?
William Dominguez
Miami, Florida
601XL (plans), Hopefully a Corvair if not, a Jabiru
3300
.001% done, finished bending rudder ribs
--- Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain
> <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> Plan and Manual page revisions are prezented on
> Zenith's web pages under the Builder section:
>
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldr/bldr.htm
>
> You need your password to get into that section,
> which
> you should have received when you purchased your
> plan
> set.
>
> > How are you guys getting these plans changes from
> > Zenith you're discussing? Do you have to be a kit
> > owner or will plans suffice? Thanks.
> >
> > Terry Turnquist
> > 601 XL (Plans)
>
> Don Davis
> 601 XL
> tail done, wing flaps and ailerons done, working on
> wing frames
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line protection needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
I talked to a Facet engineer. The 105 and 106 have an "uncalibrated" leak
back feature to prevent flooding auto engines. This leak is intentional. I
setup 2 pumps head to head and as I recall the flow is about 1/2 gal/hr. You
just have to go back to the "empty" tank and get the last bit of aux fuel.
Leo Corbalis
> Yes the Facet pumps do indeed have a check valve...It doesn't work too
> well on the 40105 and 40106 series of pumps however. I have additional
> checks valves in my feed from each pump.
>
> All of this is true as long as we are simply talking low pressure carb
> pumps....Hi pressure rotorvane style FI pumps are a different
> story...And I don't know much about them...Yet...:)
>
> Frank
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Fuel line protection needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
An uncalibrated leak back is a feature huh?.. I sold a house with a
leaking roof once, could have gotten more money...:)
Yeah, personally I want to know in which tank my fuel is so I added the
check valve for each pump. Never actually found a problem with flooding
(Bing carbs) even in 100F days but I guess it could happen.
FRank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Leo
Corbalis
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel line protection needed?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis"
--> <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
I talked to a Facet engineer. The 105 and 106 have an "uncalibrated"
leak back feature to prevent flooding auto engines. This leak is
intentional. I setup 2 pumps head to head and as I recall the flow is
about 1/2 gal/hr. You just have to go back to the "empty" tank and get
the last bit of aux fuel.
Leo Corbalis
> Yes the Facet pumps do indeed have a check valve...It doesn't work too
> well on the 40105 and 40106 series of pumps however. I have additional
> checks valves in my feed from each pump.
>
> All of this is true as long as we are simply talking low pressure carb
> pumps....Hi pressure rotorvane style FI pumps are a different
> story...And I don't know much about them...Yet...:)
>
> Frank
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Landing/Taxi lights HID, Luxeon LED, Halogen. info |
0.01 URI_REDIRECTOR Message has HTTP redirector URI
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lincoln Probst" <elprobst@yahoo.com>
I wrote up some info for the Luxeon LED's and tried to determine what I
wanted for a landing light... seemed useful for me so I thought I'd share
some of my thoughts with the list.
Bottom line for me:
I decided to get the HID lights from Xenon Depot-- two 35 Watt DS1 lights
and drivers, one in a wide angle(Fog or "taxi" light), the other a high-beam
or "landing" light. This may not have been entirely rational, but after
thinking it through decided I wanted a lot of light. There are other
car-conversion kits to get the bulb and driver... but then I would have to
also get a lens for it... and I wanted the D1S bulb so this seems to be
everything I could want.
I also am getting two white LED's as a tail Nav light. I already had
purchased my Nav and strobes. Best price on the Luxeon's are definitely
lumiled(their store is named "future electronics" Links are below).
Lincoln
www.1Linc.com
601XL kit build, revisiting and finishing wings
I'm not affiliated with any of these companies and I get nothing if you
order from them and nothing if you don't... and naturally am not
recommending anything. Whatever you do is done at your own risk.
----------
One Candle 14 Lumens
40Watt Incandescent 415 Lumens
50 Watt MR16 Halogen 800 Lumens
16 3Watt LED's 1000 Lumens
35 Watt HID 3200 Lumens
Florescent Lamp 40watt 3200 Lumens
Metal Halide 50Watt 3400 Lumens
Tail Light:
Luxeon White 1 Watt, 1 Lambertian, 1 SideEmitting(batwing) should provide
wide enough coverage for a tail light. They are $6.25 each, the driver is
$20(buckpuck driver). I like the LED's here- brighter, less power and never
burn out.
Total: $32.50
http://www.future-active.com/eStore/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductIdentifier=LX
HL-MW1DLML4385548
http://www.future-active.com/eStore/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductIdentifier=LX
HL-FW1CLML3324340
Landing Light:
Luxeon III (3 watt white LED) Voltage drop of 3.7 (at 700ma) or 3.9 (at
1000ma) bulb lasts 100,000 hours
http://www.future-active.com/eStore/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductIdentifier=LX
HL-LW3CLML1401553
8.75 for one each provides 65 Lumens per. 16 needed for 1040 Lumens. Plus
collimeter, plus driver.
16LEDs = $140
16 collimeter lens = $54 (these direct the light as a 10% cone)
4 Drivers = 4*$15 = $60
Total cost: $140 + $54 + $60 = $254
MR16 Halogen: These are cheap(about $7 each), run off 12volts.
Total cost: $15 or so for two.
50 Watts would be around 4 amps at 12volts.
35 Watt HID: These are the brightest and throw their light the farthest.
Total cost: $499 for two, 3200 lumens each. D1S bulb which lasts 3000
hours. The bulb igniter is in the base of the bulb so there isn't a wire to
carry high voltage from the power supply.. the wire from the power supply to
the bulb can be longer and much less worry about any interference. Also
note that these take 20 seconds or so to reach their full light output-- so
not to be used as a "wig-wag" light.
"The in-rush current is around 9.5 A for a fraction of a second with a
probable initial higher current for micro seconds. Standard circuit breakers
may not even be triggered. Continuous current draw is around 3.6 A at 12
VDC. We recommend 16 or 18 awg wire and a 15 A CB for the wire protection."
quote from Aerovision. Least expensive spot I could find below:
http://www.xenondepot.com/product.php?product_id=64
-------More Links
diagram of powering 1 Watt LED's
http://lib1.store.vip.sc5.yahoo.com/lib/ledsupply/PowerPuck-Luxeon-Applicati
ons.pdf
BuckPuck Driver:
http://ledsupply.com/03023-d-n-700.html
http://www.future-active.com/eStore/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductIdentifier=30
21-D-E-0700LDY5939178
EAA note about LED's and strobes:
http://www.eaa724.org/TechnicalStuff%20.html
aerovision that sells HID aircraft lights[great, but price, $535 for one
light. Recommends only the D1S bulb]
http://www.aerovisions.com/hid/
Rocket boy's HID light. Where I first started looking into it all:
http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/hid.htm
Message 14
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| Subject: | Fuel line protection needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 01:28 PM 6/9/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
><frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>An uncalibrated leak back is a feature huh?..
The reason some of the facet pumps have this leak back feature
is to prevent flooding after shutdown. Picture a motorhome
with the fuel tank in the back. The fuel line runs along
the frame to the engine. On a hot day the fuel in the
lines under the auto heat up and expands. The fuel needs to
go back to the tank through the small leak in the
pump. Otherwise the pressure in the line will rise
up enough to unseat the float in the carb and the
fuel runs down into the intake.
There are other suitable facet pumps that do not leak
back acording to facet but I am putting a check valve
in anyway for my wing tanks
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
Hooking up
Holley Carb
Linkage
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line protection needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Dunning <peterd@metec.co.nz>
Hi Jon
You are quite right, this is a great forum for respectful discussion.
Jon, with respect, whilst Rotax say that it is ok to plumb a series electric
pump with
the non-operating (but presumeably ok) Rotax mechanical pump, the issue
that I raised in my earlier post, was related to mechanical pump failure.
The failure
mode of the mechanical pump may or may not permit forward fuel flow eg. the
internal
filter may seriously restrict forward flow (contaminated by failure debris
?) and starve the engine.
My comment is related to avoidance of a potential problem by going around it
rather
than through it.....ie err on the side of caution. I still hold the view
that a check valve
in series with the mechanical pump is required, as I would be very reluctant
to rely on a failed
mechanical pump to perform that check-valve function, with a parallel pumps
set-up.
The question also arises as to whether the Facet leak-down rate in parallel
configuration, would
cause problems at full engine power. Well according to Facet, it is very
small and almost
certainly less than the designed Rotax fuel feedback to the tank (VL
protection)...besides,
you could leave the Facet boost pump running continuously. In any event, my
fuel pressure
gauge deals with that.
Sorry for the lengthy posting, and I welcome any further comments.
Regards
Peter Dunning
CH601HD/912S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel line protection needed?
Message 16
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| Subject: | Fuel line protection needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yes I think we just said the same thing....Just in case others missed
the point....In the real world a non back leaking pump (i.e a check
valve or a pump with a check valve built in) has not shown itself to be
a problem...I.e even if a little fuel has gotten past the carb floats I
have never noticed it.
Besides I think it goes out the float chamber vents before it can get
into the engine intake.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim and
Lucy
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel line protection needed?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 01:28 PM 6/9/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
><frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>An uncalibrated leak back is a feature huh?..
The reason some of the facet pumps have this leak back feature is to
prevent flooding after shutdown. Picture a motorhome with the fuel tank
in the back. The fuel line runs along the frame to the engine. On a hot
day the fuel in the lines under the auto heat up and expands. The fuel
needs to go back to the tank through the small leak in the pump.
Otherwise the pressure in the line will rise up enough to unseat the
float in the carb and the fuel runs down into the intake.
There are other suitable facet pumps that do not leak back acording to
facet but I am putting a check valve in anyway for my wing tanks
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
Hooking up
Holley Carb
Linkage
Message 17
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| Subject: | Fuel line protection needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I agree plumbing the electric pump in parralell is far
superior...Provinding you do not move the electric pump into the engine
compartment and preferably leave it down low and close to the
source...On the cabin floor is as far away from the tank as I would like
to get on a wing tank only set up...Header tanks are not quite so
limited...Still really should keep the pump OUT of the engine bay
though.
The leak back rate is pretty inimal when looking at it and beside you
will most definatly want to run both pumps every time for TO and
landing.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Dunning
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel line protection needed?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Dunning <peterd@metec.co.nz>
Hi Jon
You are quite right, this is a great forum for respectful discussion.
Jon, with respect, whilst Rotax say that it is ok to plumb a series
electric pump with the non-operating (but presumeably ok) Rotax
mechanical pump, the issue that I raised in my earlier post, was related
to mechanical pump failure.
The failure
mode of the mechanical pump may or may not permit forward fuel flow eg.
the internal filter may seriously restrict forward flow (contaminated by
failure debris
?) and starve the engine.
My comment is related to avoidance of a potential problem by going
around it rather than through it.....ie err on the side of caution. I
still hold the view that a check valve in series with the mechanical
pump is required, as I would be very reluctant to rely on a failed
mechanical pump to perform that check-valve function, with a parallel
pumps set-up.
The question also arises as to whether the Facet leak-down rate in
parallel configuration, would cause problems at full engine power. Well
according to Facet, it is very small and almost certainly less than the
designed Rotax fuel feedback to the tank (VL protection)...besides, you
could leave the Facet boost pump running continuously. In any event, my
fuel pressure gauge deals with that.
Sorry for the lengthy posting, and I welcome any further comments.
Regards
Peter Dunning
CH601HD/912S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel line protection needed?
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Prop needed. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi Johann,
I have the 3 blade (wood) GCS propeller. This is the prop, which was
recommended by ZAC for the 601 with Rotax 912. The prop is
ground-adjustable. I have used this prop for probably 40 hours. It performed
quite well. However, my employer gave me a little bonus, which I invested in
a new Woodcomp in-flight adjustable prop. Installed the Woodcomp last year.
The GCS is since then stored in my office. The prop is as good as new - no
damage, dents, kinks, etc. It comes with all the part to mount it on the
Rotax 912.
I'm located in Germany, so shipment should be easy.
If you are interested, please contact me off-line.
Regards
Thilo Kind
> --- Ursprngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: "Johann G." <johann@gi.is>
> An: "Zenith listinn" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Betreff: Zenith-List: Prop needed.
> Datum: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:15:44 -0000
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann@gi.is>
>
> Hello list members.
>
> Like Fred Sanford, I had the same unbelievable misfortune while moving my
> new Zenith to the airport. It got damaged when it fell of the trailer. I
> know is was my fault, and I am trying to live with it, but s--- happens,
and
> I am almost finished repairing the damage, but the propeller I was using
> is a Kiev Hot Prop #263. Two blades got damaged, and it will take 4-6 week
> until I can get the replacement blades. I can not wait that long. Summer
> will be over by then in Iceland.
> Does anyone have a composite propeller that will fit the Rotax 912 UL
> engine for my Zenith 701?
>
> I look forward to your reply.
> Best wishes,
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Geschenkt: 3 Monate GMX ProMail gratis + 3 Ausgaben stern gratis
++ Jetzt anmelden & testen ++ http://www.gmx.net/de/go/promail ++
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line protection needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I think I read somewhere that the purpose of the leak back is to allow the
fuel lines to depressurize after shutdown.
on 6/9/05 1:28 PM, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) at frank.hinde@hp.com
wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> An uncalibrated leak back is a feature huh?.. I sold a house with a
> leaking roof once, could have gotten more money...:)
>
> Yeah, personally I want to know in which tank my fuel is so I added the
> check valve for each pump. Never actually found a problem with flooding
> (Bing carbs) even in 100F days but I guess it could happen.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line protection needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
In the past I owned a Gulfstream American Tiger, Model AA-5B with a
Lycoming O-360-A4K, carburetor equipped with an engine driven mechanical
pump backed up by an auxiliary electric fuel pump. I am reading the POH for
the Tiger I owned in the past and the auxiliary pump was used to provide
fuel pressure redundancy during low altitude operation or as a back up if
the mechanical, engine driven pump fails. It seems to me that they preferred
to have an engine driven pump backed up by electric just in case there was
an electrical failure, the same reason they use dual magnetos, the engine
will continue to run after an electrical failure. Up to this point I was
thinking about two electric facet pumps, now I am beginning to wonder. I
guess that's what is good about the matronics list, you read a lot and it
makes you think.
Regards:
Clyde Barcus
601XL, Corvair powered
Do Not Archive
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Fuel line protection needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
Save yourself all the worry, close the fuel cutoff and run the engine until
it quits. No fuel in the bowls and little remaining in the lines.
Dave 601HD 912ULS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel line protection needed?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yes I think we just said the same thing....Just in case others missed
the point....In the real world a non back leaking pump (i.e a check
valve or a pump with a check valve built in) has not shown itself to be
a problem...I.e even if a little fuel has gotten past the carb floats I
have never noticed it.
Besides I think it goes out the float chamber vents before it can get
into the engine intake.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim and
Lucy
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel line protection needed?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 01:28 PM 6/9/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
><frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>An uncalibrated leak back is a feature huh?..
The reason some of the facet pumps have this leak back feature is to
prevent flooding after shutdown. Picture a motorhome with the fuel tank
in the back. The fuel line runs along the frame to the engine. On a hot
day the fuel in the lines under the auto heat up and expands. The fuel
needs to go back to the tank through the small leak in the pump.
Otherwise the pressure in the line will rise up enough to unseat the
float in the carb and the fuel runs down into the intake.
There are other suitable facet pumps that do not leak back acording to
facet but I am putting a check valve in anyway for my wing tanks
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
Hooking up
Holley Carb
Linkage
Message 22
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| Subject: | RE: Updated Drawings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Hi Folks I have been busy tonight catching up on my E-Mails and Websites
Some new things are
www.ch601.org
Ron's AOA Installation
Using an Olfa Knife for all shear cuts
Foam Seat construction
601HD parts List
www.ch701.com
Scratch Builders Material List
Stabilizer Pre-Flight SAFETY ISSUE !!! 601 guys may want to check this
one out as well
Olfa Knife use
More to come as time permits......
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
Message 23
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| Subject: | Fuel line protection needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jerry Latimer" <jlatimer1@cox.net>
Item #8 on the features list is "built in check valve."
Jerry
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel line protection needed?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
According to the chart at the following link Facet does not claim that
the 40105 and 40106 have check valves:
http://www.facet-purolator.com/mcl/media/technology/hd_pdfs/Cubed_Solid.pdf
-- Craig
Message 24
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| Subject: | Fuel line protection needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
So why do you figger those two columns are in the table below that. And are you
willing to bet your life on it?
-- Craig
Jerry Latimer <jlatimer1@cox.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jerry Latimer"
Item #8 on the features list is "built in check valve."
Jerry
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel line protection needed?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne
According to the chart at the following link Facet does not claim that
the 40105 and 40106 have check valves:
http://www.facet-purolator.com/mcl/media/technology/hd_pdfs/Cubed_Solid.pdf
-- Craig
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