---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/21/05: 38 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:43 AM - Re: Turn & Bank Noise (ivor.phillips) 2. 03:45 AM - Re: 701 airspeed indicator markings (Bryan Martin) 3. 05:56 AM - Fuselage static location (Peter Franke) 4. 07:02 AM - Re: 701 airspeed indicator markings (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 5. 07:14 AM - Re: Turn & Bank Noise (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 6. 07:24 AM - Re: Turn & Bank Noise (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 7. 07:51 AM - Re: 701 airspeed indicator markings (ron dewees) 8. 08:03 AM - Re: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned (Rico Voss) 9. 09:47 AM - Re: Turn & Bank Noise (Lance Gingell) 10. 09:47 AM - Re: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned (Lance Gingell) 11. 10:07 AM - Re: Turn & Bank Noise (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 12. 10:07 AM - Landing gear () 13. 10:46 AM - Re: Landing gear (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 14. 10:46 AM - Re: Turn & Bank Noise (Richard Hutson) 15. 11:01 AM - Re: Turn & Bank Noise (ivor.phillips) 16. 11:09 AM - Re: CH 601 Friends and Other Interested Folks (Weston, Jim) 17. 11:37 AM - Re: CH 601 Friends and Other Interested Folks (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 18. 01:26 PM - 601XL Wiring (george may) 19. 01:55 PM - Re: 601XL Wiring (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 20. 02:05 PM - Re: 601XL Wiring (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 21. 02:47 PM - Re: Sales Tax (Kent Brown) 22. 03:20 PM - Re: Fuselage static location (royt.or@netzero.com) 23. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: Sales Tax (Jack Russell) 24. 03:48 PM - Re: Article (Johann G.) 25. 04:43 PM - So. Cal. metal source? (Max Koenig) 26. 05:14 PM - Zenith Newsletter (Dave VanLanen) 27. 05:50 PM - Re: So. Cal. metal source? (kenneth schooley) 28. 05:54 PM - Re: Zenith Newsletter (Mike Fortunato) 29. 06:07 PM - Re: 601XL Wiring (Bryan Martin) 30. 06:07 PM - Re: Re: Sales Tax (David Alberti) 31. 06:11 PM - Re: Landing gear (Zodie Rocket) 32. 06:19 PM - Re: Re: Sales Tax (Bryan Martin) 33. 06:33 PM - Re: Re: Sales Tax (Terry Fletcher) 34. 06:46 PM - Re: Article (NYTerminat@aol.com) 35. 06:47 PM - Re: 601XL Wiring (george may) 36. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: Sales Tax (ron dewees) 37. 08:12 PM - Re: Zenith Newsletter (Larry McFarland) 38. 08:44 PM - Re: Zenith Newsletter (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:54 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Turn & Bank Noise --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" I chucked mine in the bin where it belongs!! After many hours of attempting to reduce the noise, Falcon where totally unhelpful so decided to cut my losses and fitted a pictorial pilot instead, guess what! no noise now, If you pay peanuts expect monkeys, Ivor Phillips XS486 London UK Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Turn & Bank Noise > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > > My turn bank has started being very loud intermittently; not through the > radio-audible noise. I also have the Falcon unit from ACSS. Has anyone > else experienced this? It apears to function ok, but I'm concerned that > its doom is near. Btw...it only has ~140 hours on it; I won't be happy if > it dies. > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:45:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 airspeed indicator markings From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 6/21/05 12:17 AM, MElrod3732@aol.com at MElrod3732@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: MElrod3732@aol.com > > Hello fellow builders: I am installing the airspeed indicator in my 701 and > was wondering at what airspeed values to paint the white, green, and yellow > arcs. > Could someone please provide those speeds or tell me where to obtain them. > I would also appreciate techniques on the best, and neatest, way to paint > those arcs. > Thanks in advance, > Check with Zenith, they should be able to provide you with a list of V speeds for the 701. Then you can use the range decals from available from ACS or other vendors. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:36 AM PST US From: "Peter Franke" Subject: Zenith-List: Fuselage static location --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Franke" Hi all, As I'm going to be using the Dynon AOA pitot mast, I need to find another location for the static source. I'd like to have two ports on the fuselage to avoid having another tube hanging off the wing. Is anyone using fuse mounted static ports, and if so, ahow ccurate are they? Cheers, Peter Franke 601XL 912S (Empenage & Wings 95% complete) do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:34 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 airspeed indicator markings --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Mike, I can't help you of the numbers for a 701, but I have a suggestion. You said you plan to paint on the limits. Consider, if you paint the pretty colors on the face it may void you ability to return the things if they go bad before the warranty runs. I recommend you consider the decals sold by Spruce, see on bottom right of page 345 of their catalogue. I used them and they look good. Also if the scales change a bit as I work through Phase 1 it is easy to modify. FWIW, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:24 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Turn & Bank Noise --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Ivor, I have the same Falcon T & B with a King KY 97 Transceiver in my XL and the same dang noise ! Was your noise a dull beep that continues during transmission ? And it happen whether the engine was running or not ? You mentioned you replaced the T & B with a "pictorial pilot." Forgive me, but what is that and does it replace the T & B ? And where can I buy one. Hope to hear from you, Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:27 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Turn & Bank Noise --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Jack in Clovis, this "pictorial pilot" replacement to the falcon T & B you mentioned. Where is it sold ? I have looked all through the Spruce Catalogue and have not found it. Hope to hear from you soon, Best Regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:24 AM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 airspeed indicator markings --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Hi Mike, Just to second what Jim said, use different colored electrical tape cut into narrow strips and paste them on or beside the instrument. The other thing is that your numbers may vary from those published by ZAC. My tested VNE is over 170 mph, so I changed the yellow and red warnings on the instrument. Same with stall. You may be luck and have it lower than published. That is all about what Phase I is about- flight testing the envelope. You can't go wrong with the published numbers as a start tho. Ron N601TD do not archive JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > >Mike, I can't help you of the numbers for a 701, but I have a suggestion. >You said you plan to paint on the limits. Consider, if you paint the pretty >colors on the face it may void you ability to return the things if they go bad >before the warranty runs. I recommend you consider the decals sold by Spruce, see >on bottom right of page 345 of their catalogue. I used them and they look >good. Also if the scales change a bit as I work through Phase 1 it is easy to >modify. FWIW, Bill of Georgia > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:51 AM PST US From: Rico Voss Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rico Voss First, Chuck, we all thank you for sharing your experience. That's exactly why this forum exists. >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" >Bingo!....Fuel pumps in the wrong place equals vapour lock. Frank, I assume you mean the Jab mechanical pump, since the AUX fuel pumps are in the RIGHT place, according to your "ideal" fuel system design (ie, in wing roots, by tanks)?? I see no indication of vapor lock in this case. The constricted fuel filter was downstream (on the pressure side) of both the Aux and mechanical fuel pumps. It appears this was a case of inadequate fuel delivery, overcome by the additional pressure of the Aux pumps. In fact, the results of changing the filter to one of better flow-rate clearly demonstrate that vapor lock was not the cause of the problem. I threw in the towel when this urination competition surfaced a few months ago, for 2 basic reasons: 1. When I asked for specific examples of vapor lock, I was told the anecdote of a friend who stepped on his fuel line. Once again -- fuel starvation. Yes, fuel-line constriction can contribute to vapor lock, but vapor lock is not the root cause of the problem. 2. I researched the archives of some other aircraft forums, and found vapor lock to be the same source of confusion and controversy. There was a common response, when the cause of an engine failure could not be determined, that "It musta been vapor lock". Lots of opinions, very few facts. By the way, I sent a note to Cy Galley at EAA (who has monitored this list), suggesting that a thorough discussion of this would be a good topic for magazine article. He forwarded to the editors. Once again, I completely agree that vapor lock is a SERIOUS safety issue, especially fwd of the firewall. However, I think it does a dis-service to generate un-justified fears among the readers here. We all appreciate the expertise contributed by professional engineers, but please, let's stick with factual cause-and-effect. Regards, Richard, XL/3300 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:05 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Turn & Bank Noise From: "Lance Gingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" Bill, Here's the pictorial pilots by TruTrak: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/trutrak1.php Cheers, ..lance " this "pictorial pilot" replacement to the falcon T & B you mentioned. Where is it sold ?" ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:05 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned From: "Lance Gingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" Charles, Was this with 100LL or mogas? ..lance -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of charles.long@gm.com Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com I experienced an engine stoppage during one of my first flights. ...... ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:03 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Turn & Bank Noise --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Lance, thanks, bill ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:13 AM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Landing gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: Several people exhibited interest in my plan to use the Czech landing gear, so here's the scoop: Two main landing gear, less tires and tubes, worked out to $1635.39 to Czech Aircraft Works, and $19.36 to Skyshops, for a total of $1654.75. Shipping time ran just under three weeks, from order to delivery. One ENTIRE side, mounting plate, leg, brakes, wheel, tire and tube weighed in at just a hair over 12 pounds. Add a little fudge factor for good measure, and CAW's main gear weighs in at just over 25 pounds. (ZAC's gear legs alone are about 42). I figure the weight saved will allow for the Corvair engine, and maybe a Big Mac or two. And, very nice folks to work with. Color me pleased. Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair Still on the fuselage ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:18 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Landing gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Paul, Sounds very interesting. Do you have any photos of how these new Czech legs look and hook on to the fuselage, Best regards, Bill ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:28 AM PST US From: "Richard Hutson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Turn & Bank Noise --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" Go to www.steinair.com and look at the Tru-Trak Turn and Bank. You can also go to www.trutrakflightsystems.com for their web site. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com You > mentioned you replaced the T & B with a "pictorial pilot." Forgive me, but > what is > that and does it replace the T & B ? And where can I buy one. Hope to hear > from > you, Best regards, Bill of Georgia > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:42 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Turn & Bank Noise --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" The Noise was a continuous buzz when the T&B was powered up, on switching off the supply a slow reducing buzz until the T&B was stopped http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/ I use the Autopilot on the right in my plane, But both units are solid state Giros, Take very little power and don't interfere with the radio, regards Ivor Phillips XS486 London UK Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Turn & Bank Noise > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > > Dear Ivor, I have the same Falcon T & B with a King KY 97 Transceiver in > my > XL and the same dang noise ! Was your noise a dull beep that continues > during > transmission ? And it happen whether the engine was running or not ? You > mentioned you replaced the T & B with a "pictorial pilot." Forgive me, but > what is > that and does it replace the T & B ? And where can I buy one. Hope to hear > from > you, Best regards, Bill of Georgia > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:41 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH 601 Friends and Other Interested Folks From: "Weston, Jim" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" Congratulations Bill. Glad that I got to meet you Saturday. Also glad to hear that you got the comm radio problems figured out. I know that you've got to be grinning from ear to ear. Have fun, be safe, Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: CH 601 Friends and Other Interested Folks --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, I finally got to fly my XL this morning. Even though the first flight was a week ago I had to finish a couple Alarus hours to satisfy the underwriters. That and the radios are being cantankerous. Today everything went well. Just as stated you just push the throttle and before the engine even gets to max rpm with finger tip pressure she bobs up and gone. Climbs fast and strong. Gentle pressure on the stick gets quick honest turns and climbs. Needed only a touch of trim for level flight at 3000 ft. Landing was a bit faster than I expected, but the flaps have a sure positive effect and really change the AOA for touchdown. Ground effect was noticeable, welcome and provided a true buffer. I was all together pleased. One modification that I will employ is to add a second flap switch on the panel at the throttle for finger control. This releasing the throttle from my left hand, switching left to right on the control and toggling the flaps with the right hand and return to right hand on the stick is cumbersome and potentially dangerous. Didn't think it would be when I laid it all out, but sure has to be changed now that I have done it. After the thrill of this morning it's going to be a little difficult to get interested in my job this p.m. Ha., Now to kick the rest of these Phase I hours in the book. Best regards. Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:34 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 601 Friends and Other Interested Folks --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Jim, thanks again. You are correct it was a real buzz. No, the radios still suck, they just sucked a little less on Monday, Ha. Hope to see you at the field, Best regards, Bill ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:19 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Wiring --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" List-- I'm finally approaching the point to start serious thinking about all of the wiring needed to get this bird in the air. Can some of those folks who have already run their wires give me some suggestions as to how they got through, over or around the main spar? Did you drill new holes to feed the wires through or did you manage to get them all through the center control hole? Thanks George May 601XL ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:59 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Wiring --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com George, on those holes, you will most probably need a few. I called ZAC way back when I was doing that part concerned about holes. Roger did not recommend it (party line), but I think I remember him saying they had a few in the prototype. I ran the bundle of wires from the rear along the console in the passenger side. The seat and upholstery hides them. The many wires from the wings run up the fuselage walls and under the longderun doubler to the back of instruments or circuit breakers. Holes you will most probably have will include the two brake lines and the two static/pitot tubes. Some fellows i've seen drill a bunch on holes. Ever see the holes in a PA-28 center spar ? More hole than metal. Just remember any holes must be inboard on the wing spars inserts. Also, if you are planning on using ZAC's outstanding dual control kit that will require some more holes and a special tool. So there's some more holes. Remember, any hole you have to put some kinda rubber to protect them because you can't smooth the inside on the center spar where you drill. Best on luck. Boll of Georgia ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:18 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Wiring --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com George, another point I forgot to mention, you probably don't want to run any electric wire through that center hole as you rudder cables run there. Might be a real potential problem. Further, the plans call for the fuel gasalator and valves/gas lines all join right in front of that same said hole. Moving steel cables, lots of little electric wires and a bunch of 100 octane. go juice, all within an inch or two of each other ??? No, I wouldn't put them there, but do what you want, Best of Luck, Bill ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:10 PM PST US From: "Kent Brown" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Sales Tax --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown" In a conversation with another builder recently, I realized that I (and he) may have a problem. Seems neither one of us paid any sales tax (or use tax) to the State of California when we bought our kits. His HDS is almost ready for inspection and flight, while mine has a ways to go, so I may just learn by watching, but I am wondering if any CA builders have any sage advice to offer. Among other concerns, I bought my kit about five years ago, so there might be penalties, etc. My expertise is with income tax, not sales tax, so I'm not sure whether I have a problem or not. Any thoughts? Thanks, Kent Brown ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:44 PM PST US From: "royt.or@netzero.com" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuselage static location --> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com" Peter, I have static ports on both sides of the rear fuselage on my CH601HDS. They are below the top longeron just to the behind the middle fuselage bulkhead (6B12-1 in the XL) and just forward of a vertical side skin "L". I used the static air kit from Van's. This uses large pop rivets for the static ports. See http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1119391866-272-15&browse=airframe&product=static-kit I believe my indicated airspeed is accurate under most conditions. Regards, Roy N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 357hrs, 457 landings ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:09 PM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Sales Tax --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Well Kent: You and I have got a problem but it isn't one that can't be fixed with lots of money. A few years ago I bought a plane from a private party and did not pay the tax at the time. 2 years later I got a letter from the state saying that their search of fed records show the purchase and no record of tax. They wanted penalties and interest. I sent them a letter and argued the penalties because it took them the 2years to send me a bill and I would have paid the tax at any time I received the bill. I did not have to pay the penalties but I did have to pay the interest. California expects you to volunteer to be extorted at the time of purchase!. Jack in Clovis CA Kent Brown wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown" In a conversation with another builder recently, I realized that I (and he) may have a problem. Seems neither one of us paid any sales tax (or use tax) to the State of California when we bought our kits. His HDS is almost ready for inspection and flight, while mine has a ways to go, so I may just learn by watching, but I am wondering if any CA builders have any sage advice to offer. Among other concerns, I bought my kit about five years ago, so there might be penalties, etc. My expertise is with income tax, not sales tax, so I'm not sure whether I have a problem or not. Any thoughts? Thanks, Kent Brown do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:22 PM PST US From: "Johann G." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Article --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." Hello Bob. I have just completed painting my Z701. The paint I used is an epoxy primer on all bare aluminum, and the no sanding primer from DuPont. The paint is also from DuPont, called RAL 500. Before I primed with the epoxy primer, all part were cleaned with scotch brite patch with water and Ajax soap. Then degreased before priming. I am very happy with the result. Hope this helps. Johann G. Iceland. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Article > --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com > > Dear List: > > I am getting to the point of seriously thinking about painting the outside of > my plane and want to get the paint ordered. I have a couple of questions from > those that have painted their own planes. > > 1. The prep on the outside. Scotchbrite and wipe down with MEK or lacquer > thinner? Is there anything else? > > 2. What type of primer is everyone using? I think I want to use a Urethane > paint. Any primers and paints that anyone would recommend? What is the max time > that you can wait to put the finish paint over the primer? > > 3. I see some paints have a clearcoat over the paint. Any experience with > these, are they necessary? > > I have seen some articles on a paint booth and respirators. I am really > interested in the actual painting process. Any help would be appreciated. > > Bob Spudis > N701ZX CH-701 > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:38 PM PST US From: Max Koenig Subject: Zenith-List: So. Cal. metal source? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Max Koenig I'm in Bakersfield, CA and starting a plans-built 601XL. ACS seems far more expense for much of its metal; far more than Yarde, for example. Is there a west coast source like Yarde? Is shipping from the east coast cost effective? Also, any well made forming blocks available? Max ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:45 PM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith Newsletter --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" Hello List, I finally ordered my 601XL kit, and will be picking it up when I attend the August workshop. I just received the plans and construction manual in the mail, and in looking through the materials, I came across an applicaton for the Zenith Newsletter. Is this newsletter worthwhile, or can I get the same information from the online builder's area onf the Zenith website? Also, is it necessary to spend $105 to order all the back issues? I don't want to spend that much unless its absolutely necessary - I need every penny for the project. Thanks, Dave Van Lanen Madison, WI 601XL - kit ordered, upgrading shop for year-round use Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:07 PM PST US From: "kenneth schooley" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: So. Cal. metal source? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kenneth schooley" Try Aircraft Spruce, located in Corona Ca. there phone no. is 1-877-4-SPRUCE. They are the largest aircraft parts supplier in the U.S. They will send you a free catalog (very large) if you give them a ring.....their prices seem to be pretty good on most of there stuff. Ken Schooley.......Fallbrook, Ca. 601XL builder >From: Max Koenig >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: "'zenith-list@matronics.com'" >Subject: Zenith-List: So. Cal. metal source? >Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:41:28 -0700 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Max Koenig > >I'm in Bakersfield, CA and starting a plans-built 601XL. ACS seems far more >expense for much of its metal; far more than Yarde, for example. Is there a >west coast source like Yarde? Is shipping from the east coast cost >effective? Also, any well made forming blocks available? Max > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:25 PM PST US From: Mike Fortunato Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Newsletter --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato Welcome to the group Dave. I would recommend subscribing to the newsletter. Even though a lot of it is Chris Heintz's philosophical editorials which aren't of much use, there are tidbits of practical info that you'll find helpful. As for the back issues, I wouldn't order them. If you have the most updated plans, you're good to go. Mike Fortunato 601XL Alta Loma, CA ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Wiring From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 6/21/05 4:24 PM, george may at gfmjr_20@hotmail.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" > > List-- > I'm finally approaching the point to start serious thinking about all of > the wiring > needed to get this bird in the air. Can some of those folks who have > already run their > wires give me some suggestions as to how they got through, over or around > the main spar? Did you drill new holes to feed the wires through or did you > manage > to get them all through the center control hole? > > I ran all the necessary wires and tubing through the center hole. The rudder cables were not a problem because they run through fairleads in that area and take up very little space. You just have to secure any wire bundles and tubing in that area so it they can't shift around and come into contact with any of the control cables or the stick. I ran my wires in one bundle down low ahead of the spar and split them into two smaller bundles after passing through the spar, one on either side of the tunnel to keep them out of the way of the stick motion. All my wire bundles in this area are wrapped in nylon spiral wrap. I did drill some holes through the plastic fairlead material below where the rudder cables pass through for my brake lines. My battery is behind the right seat so my main battery cables run through the spar along with the master switch control wire; main ignition power; flap motor wires; power for nav, strobe, taxi and landing lights; elevator and aileron trim tab wires; brake lines; pitot and static lines; a couple of antenna cables and a couple of other circuits. All of this stuff passes through the center hole of the spar. All of the tubing for the brakes and pitot static system and several of the electrical wires and the antenna cables are run along the rear of the spar just after exiting the hole and are securely clamped out of harms way. The rest of the wires are routed back to the area behind the seats and are clamped at the front and rear of the arm rest tunnel. The spiral wrap stiffens the bundles so they can't flop around. There is also room to run some wiring through the channel under the sides of the canopy. I routed a length of half inch polyethylene tubing through each side and pulled my GPS and VOR antenna cables and audio cables for my headset jacks through the tube on one side and the antenna cable for my comm radio on the other side. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:28 PM PST US From: "David Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Sales Tax --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" I'd argue that you get no use until the kit is finished. I paid the state of Wisconsin the taxes when I registered the plane and applied for the airworthiness certificate. Dave 601-HD 912ULS -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kent Brown Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Sales Tax --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown" In a conversation with another builder recently, I realized that I (and he) may have a problem. Seems neither one of us paid any sales tax (or use tax) to the State of California when we bought our kits. His HDS is almost ready for inspection and flight, while mine has a ways to go, so I may just learn by watching, but I am wondering if any CA builders have any sage advice to offer. Among other concerns, I bought my kit about five years ago, so there might be penalties, etc. My expertise is with income tax, not sales tax, so I'm not sure whether I have a problem or not. Any thoughts? Thanks, Kent Brown ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:02 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Landing gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" I also looked in to the Czech gear and was quite impressed, but I couldn't get the cold Canadian winter, and hard landing on fiberglass and resin out of my head. I started leaning towards Groves gear after that with the 2024, gunn drilled, but the pocket book won out and I went with the Zenith plans. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751 President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Landing gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Paul, Sounds very interesting. Do you have any photos of how these new Czech legs look and hook on to the fuselage, Best regards, Bill ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Sales Tax From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 6/21/05 5:45 PM, Kent Brown at kentbrown@verizon.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown" > > In a conversation with another builder recently, I realized that I (and he) > may have a problem. Seems neither one of us paid any sales tax (or use tax) > to the State of California when we bought our kits. > > His HDS is almost ready for inspection and flight, while mine has a ways to > go, so I may just learn by watching, but I am wondering if any CA builders > have any sage advice to offer. Among other concerns, I bought my kit about > five years ago, so there might be penalties, etc. > > My expertise is with income tax, not sales tax, so I'm not sure whether I > have a problem or not. Any thoughts? > I had the same issue here in Michigan. When I got ready to register it, I just totaled up the receipts for the various kits and sent copies along with my paperwork and check for the use tax. That apparently was enough to satisfy them. I don't know how it will go in California but it was relatively trouble free here. I would suggest that you take care of the tax before the state comes after you for it. I sent in my state paperwork as soon as I got the federal registration back. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:38 PM PST US From: "Terry Fletcher" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Sales Tax --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Terry Fletcher" I fly a trike and flew it as an ultrlight for a year. I then registered it as experimental and when Arkansas got wind of it (through the FAA in Oklahoma) they hit me up with Sales tax AND personal property tax. Since I had just registered it, it was new as far as they were concerned. I'd say that would be cause for not getting an N-number early. Registration is either reported to the states or the states send inquiries to the FAA. Since you are building it from a kit, I'd only claim the price of the kit (from your sales receipt) for sales tax puposes. Anything else would be difficult for them to assess. Terry Fletcher Little Rock (Thinking about a CH701 - decision at Oshkosh) -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Alberti Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Sales Tax --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" --> I'd argue that you get no use until the kit is finished. I paid the state of Wisconsin the taxes when I registered the plane and applied for the airworthiness certificate. Dave 601-HD 912ULS -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kent Brown Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Sales Tax --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown" In a conversation with another builder recently, I realized that I (and he) may have a problem. Seems neither one of us paid any sales tax (or use tax) to the State of California when we bought our kits. His HDS is almost ready for inspection and flight, while mine has a ways to go, so I may just learn by watching, but I am wondering if any CA builders have any sage advice to offer. Among other concerns, I bought my kit about five years ago, so there might be penalties, etc. My expertise is with income tax, not sales tax, so I'm not sure whether I have a problem or not. Any thoughts? Thanks, Kent Brown ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:47 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Article --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com Johann Thanks for the tip. I am still mulling over my approach. I received the throttle part yesterday, Thanks again for your help. Bob Spudis do not archive ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:39 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Wiring --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" Bryan and Bill -- Thanks for the info. Looks like I'll be trying to run most of the wires under the doublers George Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:49 PM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Sales Tax --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Hi Guys, I don't want to make anyone think of depriving the state of anyting they are due, but here in Georgia I got the same dunning letter when I was issued an N number. I told them, and produced a bill of sale, that showed that I had purchased the project from a Gerogia resident and they agreed that no tax was due. Casual sales between individuals in the same state are not subject to tax. If I had purchased the parts from ZAC they would have wanted sales tax on everything from out of state. Maybe you bought a project? Ron Terry Fletcher wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Terry Fletcher" > >I fly a trike and flew it as an ultrlight for a year. I then registered it >as experimental and when Arkansas got wind of it (through the FAA in >Oklahoma) they hit me up with Sales tax AND personal property tax. Since I >had just registered it, it was new as far as they were concerned. I'd say >that would be cause for not getting an N-number early. Registration is >either reported to the states or the states send inquiries to the FAA. > >Since you are building it from a kit, I'd only claim the price of the kit >(from your sales receipt) for sales tax puposes. Anything else would be >difficult for them to assess. > >Terry Fletcher >Little Rock >(Thinking about a CH701 - decision at Oshkosh) > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Alberti >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Sales Tax > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" >--> > >I'd argue that you get no use until the kit is finished. I paid the state of >Wisconsin the taxes when I registered the plane and applied for the >airworthiness certificate. > > >Dave 601-HD 912ULS > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kent Brown >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Sales Tax > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown" > >In a conversation with another builder recently, I realized that I (and he) >may have a problem. Seems neither one of us paid any sales tax (or use tax) >to the State of California when we bought our kits. > >His HDS is almost ready for inspection and flight, while mine has a ways to >go, so I may just learn by watching, but I am wondering if any CA builders >have any sage advice to offer. Among other concerns, I bought my kit about >five years ago, so there might be penalties, etc. > >My expertise is with income tax, not sales tax, so I'm not sure whether I >have a problem or not. Any thoughts? > >Thanks, > >Kent Brown > > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:26 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Newsletter --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Dave, I think the newsletter has become another good source of information and is good to start with, but doubt the worth of buying back issues. There are lots of sources, but between what you have, the ch601.org site and Zenith, this Matronics site will cover the rest. You only have to ask. Larry McFarland - 601HDS @ www.macsmachine.com do not archive Dave VanLanen wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" > >Hello List, >I finally ordered my 601XL kit, and will be picking it up when I attend the >August workshop. I just received the plans and construction manual in the >mail, and in looking through the materials, I came across an applicaton for >the Zenith Newsletter. Is this newsletter worthwhile, or can I get the same >information from the online builder's area onf the Zenith website? Also, is >it necessary to spend $105 to order all the back issues? I don't want to >spend that much unless its absolutely necessary - I need every penny for the >project. > >Thanks, >Dave Van Lanen >Madison, WI >601XL - kit ordered, upgrading shop for year-round use > >Do Not Archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:05 PM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Newsletter --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne Zenith says that the newsletter is their "official" news outlet: http://www.zenithair.com/ord-info.htm "ZENAIR NEWSLETTER: The Zenair Newsletter is the official publication for builders of Zenith kit aircraft, containing useful and important information on Zenith Aircraft Company's kit aircraft. Topics covered include building tips and hints, updates, bulletins, news from designer Chris Heintz, construction and flight reports from builders, design modifications, and much more... Produced independently, the newsletter is published six times per year, and back issues are available (by model). For subscription info, contact: Zenair News 1002 Heather Lane, Hartford, WI 53027-9045 USA Tel: 262-966-7627" -- Craig Dave VanLanen wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" > > Hello List, > I finally ordered my 601XL kit, and will be picking it up when I attend the > August workshop. I just received the plans and construction manual in the > mail, and in looking through the materials, I came across an applicaton for > the Zenith Newsletter. Is this newsletter worthwhile, or can I get the same > information from the online builder's area onf the Zenith website? Also, is > it necessary to spend $105 to order all the back issues? I don't want to > spend that much unless its absolutely necessary - I need every penny for the > project. > > Thanks, > Dave Van Lanen > Madison, WI > 601XL - kit ordered, upgrading shop for year-round use > > Do Not Archive > > > > > > >