Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:24 AM - Re: First flight (Richard Cottingham)
2. 05:05 AM - Oshkosh (Zodie Rocket)
3. 05:41 AM - Re: Brake lines 701or 601 (Larry)
4. 05:41 AM - Edge Distance (Paul Harrington)
5. 06:03 AM - 701 Fuel Tanks - Home made vs. ZAC (Bima, Martin)
6. 06:23 AM - Re: Edge Distance (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
7. 06:51 AM - Re: Edge Distance (Matt & Jo)
8. 08:29 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 07/03/05 (Paul Hartl)
9. 09:58 AM - Re: Edge Distance (kevinbonds)
10. 11:51 AM - metal brakes (John)
11. 01:03 PM - Re: metal brakes (jnbolding1)
12. 01:43 PM - Re: metal brakes (ROBERT SCEPPA)
13. 02:12 PM - Re: metal brakes (Randy L. Thwing)
14. 03:56 PM - First flight of Joeing 701 (Johann G.)
15. 04:45 PM - Re: metal brakes (Monty Graves)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: First flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Cottingham" <mrd@wn.com.au>
Johann G
Congratulations.Will match you one day.
Fly carefully
Regards
Do not archive
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Hi Folks, for anyone planning on going to the Zenith Builders dinner
while at Oshkosh please fill in Oshkosh 2005
<http://www.ch601.org/BBQ/bbq1.htm> Builders Dinner
<http://www.ch601.org/BBQ/bbq1.htm> form on the www.ch701.com
<http://www.ch701.com/> and the www.ch601.org <http://www.ch601.org/>
websites. This event is open as always to builders, flyers, thinkers and
wannabies of Zenith airplanes. Also I would like your thoughts, we have
asked on the form what you would like to see on the builders websites,
in this area I would like you folks to answer what you would like to see
at the builder's dinner! What is it about the evening that you would
like to see changed so that you would benefit more from it? Any and all
ideas will be entertained and entertaining I'm sure!!
Thanks Folks, a greater gathering of people can not be found
elsewhere!!!
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Brake lines 701or 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
I used 90 degree fittings and ran mine thru aluminum tubing attached at the
top and bottom into the fuselage then another 90 degree fitting to front. On
the peddles, just leave extra slack. There is really not a lot of movement
there.
Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: <RURUNY@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Brake lines 701or 601
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com
>
> A couple quick question on brake line routing from the matco master
> cylinders.
>
> Did many use strait fittings out of the bottom of the cylinders, and did
the
> left cylinder line go left and back and the right line go out the right
side
> and back?
>
> Or, did you use 90 deg fittings and route the lines up and and then to the
> side, down and back to give some flex for rudder and brake movement.
>
> I have the peddles where the bottom of the cylinder is attached to the
> rudder peddle and not to the floor. This would make the routing of the
line a
> little more challenging considering that you need a little flex for rudder
and
> brake movement. It looks like the left line would work fine but the
right
> cylinder would intefere with the right nose wheel steering rod.
>
> If I did run the lines up and then to the sides, is it a no-no to have
the
> lines at any point
> higher than the top of the master cylinders. Would it be possible that
fluid
> would run back and out of the top of the master cylinder.
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> Brian
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Harrington" <pharry22_70@hotmail.com>
Hi All,
I am building the rudder for the 601 and have created a problem I think with
edge distance on rib 4. I have drilled holes in the spar but when I match
them up with the rib, the distance to the side edge is about 4 mm. Firstly
is this a problem? If so is the solution to simply add another rivet 10 mm
inside the edge rivet so that rib 4 has 4 rivets instead of 3.
Thanks.
Paul H.
Sydney
Do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | 701 Fuel Tanks - Home made vs. ZAC |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
I was looking at my fuel tanks and noticed that I had installed the
outlets a little too high - centerline about 20-25 mm from bottom of
tank.
Could some of you with ZAC tanks and homemade tanks e-mail me with your
bottom to centerline of outlet dimension. I am afraid that I have
created a lot of unusable fuel in the tanks.
Thanks
embima@mts.net
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Edge Distance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hi Paul:
Four is stronger than three - go for it !
Just remember, you just reduced the carrying capacity of your 601 by the
weight of an extra rivet........just kidding !!
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
In a message dated 7/4/2005 8:42:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pharry22_70@hotmail.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Harrington"
<pharry22_70@hotmail.com>
Hi All,
I am building the rudder for the 601 and have created a problem I think with
edge distance on rib 4. I have drilled holes in the spar but when I match
them up with the rib, the distance to the side edge is about 4 mm. Firstly
is this a problem? If so is the solution to simply add another rivet 10 mm
inside the edge rivet so that rib 4 has 4 rivets instead of 3.
Thanks.
Paul H.
Sydney
Do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Edge Distance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
As always it is good to ask ZAC. But this is a problem we have all dealt
with. First the minimum edge distance that ZAC recommends is 2d. The
normal is 3d. Take a look at ZACs construction manual on page 5. That is
from the center of the hole to the edge. So the A4 rivet is about 3 mm
which would give the edge of the hole to the edge of the material at about
4.5mm. If you are at 4mm I would think you are ok.
The other consideration is the load path. The ribs are not as highly loaded
as other parts of the structure. ( here is a good thing to confirm with
ZAC) The best fix for an edge distance problem is a doubler tied back to
structure. But I have also added rivets centered on the existing rivets and
recessed back into the meat of the structure. Another suggestion is to find
or download a copy of AC 43-13-1b. This is the bible for structural
repairs. Chapter 4 deals with riveted structure.
Don't worry too much, this won't be the last time you have an error. The
best thing you did was admit the mistake and seek a fix. It usually isn't
near as bad to fix something as it initially seems.
Good Luck
Matt Archer
www.zodiacxl.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Harrington" <pharry22_70@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Edge Distance
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Harrington"
> <pharry22_70@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
> I am building the rudder for the 601 and have created a problem I think
> with
> edge distance on rib 4. I have drilled holes in the spar but when I match
> them up with the rib, the distance to the side edge is about 4 mm.
> Firstly
> is this a problem? If so is the solution to simply add another rivet 10
> mm
> inside the edge rivet so that rib 4 has 4 rivets instead of 3.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Paul H.
>
> Sydney
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 8
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RURUNY@aol.com
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 07/03/05 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" <paulhartl@cox.net>
Hi Brian,
On my 601HDS, I used a 90 degree fitting on the left, and ran the right side straight
forward,
and routed it up and over the steering rods. Up front, I found it necessary to
secure it with larger
diameter fasteners, so that the brake line could travel a bit through the fastener,
but still be held
relatively in place. I then routed both lines rearward to lightening holes in
the spar and from
there through the stub wings to a position above the gear, and out through the
bottom skin. I also
made brackets secured to the inside of the fork to help secure the brake line in
the open air
behind the gear legs, as it's a fairly long distance from the wing skin down to
the brake fitting.
I was also careful to try and keep this all uphill, from the brake to the master
cylinders, although
there may be a flat spot along the way. Anyway, it seems to work, as I used the
method
recommended earlier on this list to pump the fluid up from the brake to the master,
driving air out
as the fluid rises - and it seems to have worked, as my brakes feel tight, with
not much
sponginess. I did need a friend to do this - one of us pumping the fluid in at
the brake assembly,
the other at the master cylinder, allowing the air to pass and then sealing it
off once fluid started
coming through. We also found we had fill the reservoir from the top - it doesn't
seem that you
can pump it in from below.
A caution: I haven't yet flown, but the brakes feel like all the air is gone, and
there seems to be
enough room and flexibility for the steering rods to rise fully up without bumping
the right side
brake line too harshly - although they will make contact on a very hard bump.
I hope this helps -
but remember, I've not yet tested it fully.
Paul
>
>
> Time: 04:30:30 PM PST US
> From: RURUNY@aol.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Brake lines 701or 601
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com
>
> A couple quick question on brake line routing from the matco master
> cylinders.
>
> Did many use strait fittings out of the bottom of the cylinders, and
> did the left cylinder line go left and back and the right line go out
> the right side and back?
>
> Or, did you use 90 deg fittings and route the lines up and and then to
> the side, down and back to give some flex for rudder and brake
> movement.
>
> I have the peddles where the bottom of the cylinder is attached to the
> rudder peddle and not to the floor. This would make the routing of
> the line a
>
> little more challenging considering that you need a little flex for
> rudder and
>
> brake movement. It looks like the left line would work fine but the
> right cylinder would intefere with the right nose wheel steering
> rod.
>
> If I did run the lines up and then to the sides, is it a no-no to
> have the lines at any point higher than the top of the master
> cylinders. Would it be possible that fluid would run back and out of
> the top of the master cylinder.
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> Brian
Paul Hartl, 601HDS, Jabiru 3300, finishing stages
Flight Simulator 2002/4 Zodiac Website: http://www.cox-internet.com/paulhartl
Sun Valley, Idaho 83340 208-788-9147
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Matt and Paul
If I'm not mistaken 2d or twice the diameter of an A4 rivet is 6.4mm.
A4=3.2mmX2d. You should measure from the center of your hole to the edge.
None of my rivets are less than 7mm absolute minimum.
Paul
How are you drilling your ribs. You should draw a center-line on each rib
and site through the holes in the spar. If you see the line you are on
center. Drill holes in the spar slightly smaller at first. I agree with
Matt, it is always good to check with ZAC before making repairs. If you do
add a rivet keep the holes 3D-4D apart.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt & Jo
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Edge Distance
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
As always it is good to ask ZAC. But this is a problem we have all dealt
with. First the minimum edge distance that ZAC recommends is 2d. The
normal is 3d. Take a look at ZACs construction manual on page 5. That is
from the center of the hole to the edge. So the A4 rivet is about 3 mm
which would give the edge of the hole to the edge of the material at about
4.5mm. If you are at 4mm I would think you are ok.
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John" <jlifer@bellsouth.net>
Happy 4th guys! I've got a question. Has anyone tried using an aluminum siding
brake such as a Tapco to bend your parts. Obviously there is a limited throat
depth for these units and you would have to make an insert to keep the 1/8"
radius, but are there other problems with using one of these?
Thanks John
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: metal brakes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
---------- >Happy 4th guys! I've got a question. Has anyone tried using an aluminum
siding brake such as a Tapco to bend your parts. Obviously there is a
limited throat depth for these units and you would have to make an insert to keep
the 1/8" radius, but are there other problems with using one of these?
>Thanks John
John, They are very light duty, designed for bending very thin, soft, non structural
aluminum. I've used one a long time ago (before my neighbor put in a 10',
80 ton press brake) on THIN 2024 that wasn't too long, Might be able to bend
some of the 016 stuff. Be careful ,you can spring them by overloading and then
you've got somebody hacked off at you. LOW&SLOW John Bolding
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: metal brakes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> That's a thought, John. Might work. Also there's a
> possibility of using a tech school near your area.
> Someone has an article here that he constructed a
> simple bending brake made from materials bought at
> Home Depot. I am looking into that myself. Bob
> rjscep@yahoo.com
--- John <jlifer@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John"
> <jlifer@bellsouth.net>
>
> Happy 4th guys! I've got a question. Has anyone
> tried using an aluminum siding brake such as a Tapco
> to bend your parts. Obviously there is a limited
> throat depth for these units and you would have to
> make an insert to keep the 1/8" radius, but are
> there other problems with using one of these?
> Thanks John
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: metal brakes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Hello John:
Search the achives using the search term "tapco" for previous
discousions regarding use of these brakes. If you need more info or pics,
I'll be glad to send them.
Also: Congratulations to Johann !!!!!!!!!!!! Send pictures............
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
>
> Happy 4th guys! I've got a question. Has anyone tried using an aluminum
siding brake such as a Tapco to bend your parts.
Message 14
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| Subject: | First flight of Joeing 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann@gi.is>
Hello list members.
Thank you all who have congratulated me on my first flight. This has been something
I have only dreamt about for so many years and now that dream has finally
come true. I am still up there flying in my thoughts and reliving the rush.
I hope to get some pictures on the photoshare in the next few days.
I am only a low time pilot, have been flying a Kolb Firestar for just over 120
hours, but when I flew this plane for the first time, it felt so easy and nothing
to it. Every movement is just what you expect and no surprises.
Today was the second time I flew it and most of that time was with a passenger.
Not much difference except the longer take off roll.
I will keep the list posted on any experience I think will benefit the future pilots
of the Zenith 701. The only thing now I can say to those who are still building.
You will not be disappointed with your new plane.
Happy building.
Regards from Iceland.
Johann G. (Joe)
Zenith 701 (Joeing 701)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: metal brakes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
In other words, Randy has made a lot of his parts with one.
I seen a brake in Home Depot the other day for rent, that had the correct
1/8 inch radius nose, instead of the knife edge.... I think it was
designed to be used on steel siding and corigated sheet iron, instead of
alum trim like the knife edge. I am still not sure I would try to bend
very long pieces of .040 on it.
I didn't ask the guy, but I wondered about taking parts in to the rental
part of Home Depot or any rental store, when it was there, and using it for
an hour for $10 bucks or so. Its a $1400 tool... and rents for about $50 a
day....
If you organized your parts and bends lines etc, encluding a couple of
pratice pieces.............
Monty
At 02:11 PM 7/4/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
>
>Hello John:
> Search the achives using the search term "tapco" for previous
>discousions regarding use of these brakes. If you need more info or pics,
>I'll be glad to send them.
>
>Also: Congratulations to Johann !!!!!!!!!!!! Send pictures............
>
>Regards,
>Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
>
> >
> > Happy 4th guys! I've got a question. Has anyone tried using an aluminum
>siding brake such as a Tapco to bend your parts.
>
>
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