Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:27 AM - Re: Re: 601 XL Materials List - 0.016" vs. 0.020" (N5SL)
2. 09:26 AM - Re: 601-HDS For Sale Amazing Opportunity (Steve Freeman)
3. 02:31 PM - Viton O rings needed. (Johann G.)
4. 03:14 PM - Re: Viton O rings needed. (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
5. 03:57 PM - Re: Re: 601 XL Materials List - 0.016" vs. 0.020" (William Dominguez)
6. 05:39 PM - Liability waiver (Mike Fortunato)
7. 06:47 PM - Re: Liability waiver (Larry)
8. 07:03 PM - Re: Re: 601 XL Materials List - 0.016" vs. 0.020" (ROBERT SCEPPA)
9. 07:53 PM - Jaibaru liability ()
10. 09:10 PM - Re: Liability waiver (Brett)
11. 09:11 PM - Re: Jaibaru liability (Mark Stauffer)
12. 10:09 PM - Re: Jaibaru liability (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Materials List - 0.016" vs. 0.020" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
William:
After completing the tail section I didn't order any more .016" aluminum. I replaced
it all with .020". As Kevin Bonds pointed out (thanks Kevin) since then
ZAC has changed the fuselage side and bottom skins to .025". I did mine in
.020" but my drawings called out .016" sides and bottom. Also I made the top
skins in .020" aluminum. I installed the gussets just like my drawings required.
I also found that .016" was difficult to find and more expensive than .020"
6061-T6.
Let me know if you have any more questions,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez
Scott,
Do you mean substitute all .016 sheets for .020 or
only those used for the skin. .016 is more difficult
to find locally.
---------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 601-HDS For Sale Amazing Opportunity |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Freeman <stefree601@yahoo.com>
Hey Fred,
Thanks for the info. If none of these offers I have pan out I will be in touch.
That might be a good way for me to go.
I have had 3 serious inquiries into my project, and it looks like it might be going
to Australia. If I weren't moving I would finish, but that darn life thing
keeps getting in the way!
Steve
Fred Kirkland <fdk0154.tx@cox.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred Kirkland"
Steve, there are three guys at Deer Valley that I know of that are building for
others. Also, a buddy of mine that is into Kit Foxes lives across the street
and he knows a huge number of people in the valley that are into building. If
you want to look into finding someone to complete the plane for you, I'd be happy
to give you a hand.
Fred Kirkland
602-296-5878
---------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Viton O rings needed. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann@gi.is>
Hello list members.
Does anyone on the list know where would be a good source for Viton o-rings for
the Rotax 912 ul.
I need the 16x5 O rings for the oil return tube for the valves.
There is a small leak on all the o rings, after only 200 hrs engine run time. I
do admit the engine has been torn down for crank shaft alignment and new piston
rings.
I know the rings are available from Rotax dealers, but almost $ 7.00 for a rubber
o ring seems expensive to me. This size is not available here in Iceland.
There are 8 needed. These are just a standard (Viton) metric size o rings.
Hope you can help.
Johann G.
Iceland.
Do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Viton O rings needed. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
You can also use BUNA-N...I believe these are the black ones commonly
sold with hydraulic fittings. My chemical database tells me these
perfectly compatible with oil and fuel.
Do you have a hydraulic supplier?...Auto shop that might keep a
selection of these?
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Johann G.
Subject: Zenith-List: Viton O rings needed.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann@gi.is>
Hello list members.
Does anyone on the list know where would be a good source for Viton
o-rings for the Rotax 912 ul.
I need the 16x5 O rings for the oil return tube for the valves.
There is a small leak on all the o rings, after only 200 hrs engine run
time. I do admit the engine has been torn down for crank shaft alignment
and new piston rings.
I know the rings are available from Rotax dealers, but almost $ 7.00
for a rubber o ring seems expensive to me. This size is not available
here in Iceland.
There are 8 needed. These are just a standard (Viton) metric size o
rings.
Hope you can help.
Johann G.
Iceland.
Do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Materials List - 0.016" vs. 0.020" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
Thanks for the info Scott. I'll go for that too except
I will use .025 on tail skin as per the newest
changes.
William Dominguez
Miami, Florida
601XL, Hopefully a Corvair if not, a Jabiru 3300
.001% done, doing stabilizer ribs
do not archive
--- N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL
> <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
> William:
>
> After completing the tail section I didn't order any
> more .016" aluminum. I replaced it all with .020".
> As Kevin Bonds pointed out (thanks Kevin) since then
> ZAC has changed the fuselage side and bottom skins
> to .025". I did mine in .020" but my drawings
> called out .016" sides and bottom. Also I made the
> top skins in .020" aluminum. I installed the
> gussets just like my drawings required. I also
> found that .016" was difficult to find and more
> expensive than .020" 6061-T6.
>
> Let me know if you have any more questions,
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
> William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez
>
>
> Scott,
>
> Do you mean substitute all .016 sheets for .020 or
> only those used for the skin. .016 is more difficult
> to find locally.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
Message 6
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| Subject: | Liability waiver |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
This is a little off topic, and probably more suited for an attorney, but thought
I'd ask in case anyone else had the same concerns. I'm buying an engine from
Jabiru, and have just been presented with a hold harmless agreement. This document
basically says that no matter what happens, I waive my rights to sue the
company. Now, I understand that in experimental aviation, where the builder
plays a critical role, that manufacturer liability certainly should be limited
to the extent I may do something to screw things up. But this waiver also covers
any defect in construction (labor or materials) that Jabiru may have made
in their completed engine. Upon receipt of the motor, I certainly don't intend
on tearing it apart to make sure everything is correct!
Anyone else run into this concern? It may be that Jabiru may not sell the engine
unless I agree to sign....haven't checked with them yet. (Pete -- I know you
lurk on the list, so please don't get offended by this question. I just felt
the need to check with the builder community on this one. :) )
Thanks,
Mike Fortunato
601XL
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Liability waiver |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
I guess that means, no warranty of any kind. For what they charge, I'm
afraid I would tell them to take a flying leap. There are other options.
Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Fortunato" <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Liability waiver
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
>
> This is a little off topic, and probably more suited for an attorney, but
thought I'd ask in case anyone else had the same concerns. I'm buying an
engine from Jabiru, and have just been presented with a hold harmless
agreement. This document basically says that no matter what happens, I waive
my rights to sue the company. Now, I understand that in experimental
aviation, where the builder plays a critical role, that manufacturer
liability certainly should be limited to the extent I may do something to
screw things up. But this waiver also covers any defect in construction
(labor or materials) that Jabiru may have made in their completed engine.
Upon receipt of the motor, I certainly don't intend on tearing it apart to
make sure everything is correct!
>
> Anyone else run into this concern? It may be that Jabiru may not sell the
engine unless I agree to sign....haven't checked with them yet. (Pete -- I
know you lurk on the list, so please don't get offended by this question. I
just felt the need to check with the builder community on this one. :) )
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
> do not archive
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Materials List - 0.016" vs. 0.020" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> Is there new changes on the tail skins? I wasn't
> aware. I thank you also Robert Sceppa
> <rjscep@yahoo.com>
--- William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez
> <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Thanks for the info Scott. I'll go for that too
> except
> I will use .025 on tail skin as per the newest
> changes.
>
>
> William Dominguez
> Miami, Florida
> 601XL, Hopefully a Corvair if not, a Jabiru 3300
> .001% done, doing stabilizer ribs
>
> do not archive
>
> --- N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL
> > <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
> >
> > William:
> >
> > After completing the tail section I didn't order
> any
> > more .016" aluminum. I replaced it all with
> .020".
> > As Kevin Bonds pointed out (thanks Kevin) since
> then
> > ZAC has changed the fuselage side and bottom skins
> > to .025". I did mine in .020" but my drawings
> > called out .016" sides and bottom. Also I made
> the
> > top skins in .020" aluminum. I installed the
> > gussets just like my drawings required. I also
> > found that .016" was difficult to find and more
> > expensive than .020" 6061-T6.
> >
> > Let me know if you have any more questions,
> >
> > Scott Laughlin
> > www.cooknwithgas.com
> >
> > William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: William
> Dominguez
> >
> >
> > Scott,
> >
> > Do you mean substitute all .016 sheets for .020 or
> > only those used for the skin. .016 is more
> difficult
> > to find locally.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Jaibaru liability |
NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=disabled version=3.0.2
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <bobkat@btinet.net>
Mike, I'm not an attorney, but as I understand it, you can never sign away your
rights to sue for negligence on their part. I know that most of those companies
have lots of "legal repellant" with their products, but if they screw up they
are still liable. My attorney friends always wonder why they include stuff
like that. Now Jaibaru is an Australian company, so possibly international
law may come into play with them.
Guess I'd discuss it with Jaibaru and if there are any questions remaining check
with the EAA or an aviation attorney.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Liability waiver |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " <brett@hog-air.com>
That's pretty standard. I don't know about them but I won't sell an
engine unless they sign one.
The problem is if anything else goes wrong and I don't have that signed
I will get sued. Even if it had nothing to do with the engine. Thank the
blood suckers for that. Get what ever you can from who ever you can.
>
>
Thanks
Brett Ray
www.hog-air.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Jaibaru liability |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
Mike and others,
I ordered my engine and FWF last month and signed the waiver. I believe the
statement below is generally correct but what it does do in a court of law
is show that at least you were told, and that you understood, of the
potential problems involved. Also, I've read somewhere that I cannot sign
away the right of my spouse/family to sue (Even though my spouse was
required to sign the waiver also).
Another example is I just got finished flying Young Eagles today. Sure, the
parents sign waivers and EAA has insurance but that will not stop some
lawyer from making the rest of my life miserable in the event something bad
happens.
Now having said all of this, I'm NOT a lawyer, do not look like one, nor do
I play one on TV. Your mileage will vary. Would a real lawyer like to weigh
in on the discussion?
Mark Stauffer
Odenton, MD
601XL almost on the gear, Jabiru 3300 on the way.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
bobkat@btinet.net
Subject: Zenith-List: Jaibaru liability
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <bobkat@btinet.net>
Mike, I'm not an attorney, but as I understand it, you can never sign away
your rights to sue for negligence on their part. I know that most of those
companies have lots of "legal repellant" with their products, but if they
screw up they are still liable. My attorney friends always wonder why they
include stuff like that. Now Jaibaru is an Australian company, so possibly
international law may come into play with them.
Guess I'd discuss it with Jaibaru and if there are any questions remaining
check with the EAA or an aviation attorney.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Jaibaru liability |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Mark, I do play an attorney on TV and as a proud member of the blood sucker
community I agree with most all you said. Courts and State's laws differ
greatly so there is no absolute answer other than with a lawyer. My signature on
a
wavier or any document, even a car rental agreement, just totally relieves the
principal of obligation and liability because an attorney is assumed to
understand what he's signing. A lay person or surviving family member can always
argue they did not know or understand what they were agreeing to and frankly many
of my cohort blood suckers have successfully won awards for such actions once
they survived the motion for directed verdict phase of most all civil
actions. Is there a sure answer to the question as to whether you are you signing
away all possible rights to sue and those of your family ?? No, there is not.
Such a document would merely be evidence and perhaps poor evidence at that. I
suggest you retain a local blood sucker to review the document, research the
pertinent laws and case decisions that apply and get him or her to advise you.
You
probably wouldn't ask you local A&P to perform brain surgery on you or a
beloved family member, even if he is the smartest airplane mechanic around so I
suggest you consult a local expert in the field. Best of luck, Bill
P.S. -- FWIW I signed the dammed thing. The way I figured it, if the engine
failed I would most probably be gone anyway and my life insurance would take
care of my family needs so I went for it.
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