Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:46 AM - Re: Jaibaru liability (Joemotis@aol.com)
2. 04:32 AM - Re: Buying a 601? (Jim Pellien)
3. 04:53 AM - Oshkosh (Jim Pellien)
4. 05:29 AM - Re: Jaibaru liability (William Dominguez)
5. 06:39 AM - Savannah (Zodie Rocket)
6. 09:12 AM - Re: Savannah (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
7. 09:24 AM - Re: Re: 601 XL Materials List - 0.016" vs. 0.020" (DeanMFord@aol.com)
8. 09:33 AM - Re: Jaibaru liability (changed topic) Life Insurance (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
9. 11:46 AM - Re: Re: - 0.016" vs. 0.020" (jnbolding1)
10. 02:28 PM - Have HDS 601 for sale (Marion Jonker)
11. 02:54 PM - Re: Savannah (Zodie Rocket)
12. 03:07 PM - Re: Jaibaru liability (changed topic) Life Insurance (ron dewees)
13. 06:00 PM - Re: Re: Re: 601 XL Materials List - 0.016" vs. 0.020" (N5SL)
14. 06:09 PM - Re: Jaibaru liability (Robert Schoenberger)
15. 06:30 PM - Re: Savannah ()
16. 06:31 PM - Re: Have HDS 601 for sale (Jim Langley)
17. 07:39 PM - Robert Kube (Zodie Rocket)
18. 08:02 PM - Re: [ Johann G. Johannsson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Gary Gower)
19. 10:59 PM - Re: Jaibaru liability (Garrou, Douglas)
20. 11:47 PM - nweaa Arlington Flyin volunteer report (xl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Jaibaru liability |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
Damn Mike,
You sure know how to stir the pot!
Used to hate Realtors until I bought a house and got one of the best of the
best. Really realigned my thinking.
Good luck on your choice. I personally feel that the Jab is one of the
finest engines out there.
Joe Motis
Do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a 601? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
703-313-4818
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Langley" <tempaddress@worldhost.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Buying a 601?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Langley"
<tempaddress@worldhost.net>
>
> Jim:
>
> Can you send me your phone number. I would like to talk to you.
>
> Jim!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pellien
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Buying a 601?
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
>
> Jim,
>
> I can get you a completed 601 ELSA in 2 months from the factory. We are
> the
> distributors for factory built Zodiac 601XL ELSA and SLSA.
>
> The ELSA version starts at $69,900 with a Rotax 912S engine, and the
> SLSA
> starting price has been reduced to $74,900 with either the Continental
> O-200
> or the Rotax 912S engines.
>
> If you are interested in knowing more, please go to my Mid-Atlantic
> Sports
> Planes website at: www.maspl.com
>
> Jim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Langley" <tempaddress@worldhost.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Buying a 601?
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Langley"
> <tempaddress@worldhost.net>
> >
> >
> > I am dying to get into the air right away. Can you guys recommend a
> > good place to look for a completed or almost completed XL?
> >
> > Jim!
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
Hello Everybody,
My brand new 601XL SLSA (Tail Number is N601VA) has been completed and
flight tested but has not yet been shipped from the Czechworks factory in
the Czech Republic. They expect to ship it next week. I had hoped to have
it available to put in our SportsPlanes.com booth space at Oshkosh. But now,
with a 3 week shipping time, I will not have it in time for Oshkosh. These
things happen when you are certifying a new aircraft.
However, in an effort to turn a negative into a positive, I would like to
invite any 601XL owner flying to Oshkosh to consider parking their plane in
the tiedown that was reserved for my airplane. The tie-down space allocated
for my airplane is going to be empty and we'd like to have a great example
of a 601XL available for people to see. We would compensate you for a
portion of your direct flying costs, strictly in accordance with FAA rules.
Please let me know if you or somebody you know might be interested in this
opportunity to showcase your beautiful airplane at the premier general
aviation airshow. We have booths 276 and 277.
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Region
SportsPlanes.com
www.Pellien.com/MASPL.htm
703-313-4818
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Jaibaru liability |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
Doug,
I agree with Mike.
William Dominguez
Husband of a Licensed Real Estate Sales Associate who
used to be a legal assistant.
do not archive
--- Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato
> <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
>
>
> > p.s. Say what you will, but I continue to think
> > that attorneys in general are morally superior to
> > real estate agents.
>
> Oh Doug....say it isn't so. Your post was right on
> until that line. :)
>
> Mike Fortunato
> Licensed Real Estate Broker, Manager, & Developer
>
> definitely do not archive
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://discover.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Hi List
I have been asked by the RAA to forward a copy of this link
http://www.auf.asn.au/airworthiness/index.html#savannah
To anyone building or flying the 701 copy called a Savannah, I know
there have been builders on this list to get help in there building
troubles. If you're building this plane, please check out the link, it
is a structural failure and has already cost at least one life.
I'll just keep building my 701, with a safe feeling that comes from
years of 701 service and Chris Heintz design.
Mark
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 7/10/2005 8:41:42 AM Central Daylight Time,
zodierocket@hsfx.ca writes:
Hi List
I have been asked by the RAA to forward a copy of this link
http://www.auf.asn.au/airworthiness/index.html#savannah
To anyone building or flying the 701 copy called a Savannah, I know
there have been builders on this list to get help in there building
troubles. If you're building this plane, please check out the link, it
is a structural failure and has already cost at least one life
Mark
The link does not work for me. What is the nature of the structural failure?
Jerry
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Re: 601 XL Materials List - 0.016" vs. 0.020" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: DeanMFord@aol.com
>>After completing the tail section I didn't order any more .016" aluminum.
I replaced
>>it all with .020".
I am concerned that some builders might not realize that thicker is not
always better.
Specifically, with the hingeless ailerons, substituting a thicker sheet for
the .016
would make the bending stiffness of the sheet increase by the thickness ratio
cubed.
Therefore, a .020 sheet would be about 2.0 times stiffer and a .025 sheet
would be about 3.8
times stiffer.
However, here is the scary part. For a given pattern of aileron deflections
over the operating
life of the plane, based on the engineering principle that the strain in the
aluminum is going to be
proportional to the thickness of the sheet, the time to crack initiation will
be greatly
reduced. I have not pulled out the specific values for the calculation, but
for
high cycle fatigue, the life is going to be inversely proportional to the
strain
b
(read that as strain raised to the exponent b). Values of b for aluminum
high cylce fatigue
can easily be as large as 10. Therefore a switch from .016 to .020 sheet
could reduce the life
by a factor of 9.3 and a switch to .025 could reduce the life by a factor of
86.
There is engineering that went into this hingeless design that should not be
ignored.
Dean M. Ford
601 XL working on ailerons
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Jaibaru liability (changed topic) Life Insurance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Al, I didn't know you were an insurance agent ! How is the re building coming
along ? The only spare ZAC stuff I have is the center line controls kit.
Your welcome to them if you need to replace yours. I remember you said you
center spar was damaged. I took my third flight yesterday and was thinking about
your third landing just as I was flaring too high, but luck was with me and
ground effect took over and eased her on down. Got in just before the edge on
Dennis took away VFR. I have a heavy left wing just like everybody else, but I
figure it is planed such so that with a passenger the thing should fly pretty
level. Take care and let me know if you need these parts. Bill of Georgia
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: - 0.016" vs. 0.020" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>I am concerned that some builders might not realize that thicker is not
>always better.
>Specifically, with the hingeless ailerons, substituting a thicker sheet for
>the .016
>would make the bending stiffness of the sheet increase by the thickness ratio
>cubed.
>Therefore, a .020 sheet would be about 2.0 times stiffer and a .025 sheet
>would be about 3.8
>times stiffer.
>
>However, here is the scary part. For a given pattern of aileron deflections
>over the operating
>life of the plane, based on the engineering principle that the strain in the
>aluminum is going to be
>proportional to the thickness of the sheet, the time to crack initiation will
>be greatly
>reduced. I have not pulled out the specific values for the calculation, but
>for
>high cycle fatigue, the life is going to be inversely proportional to the
>strain
> b
>(read that as strain raised to the exponent b). Values of b for aluminum
>high cylce fatigue
>can easily be as large as 10. Therefore a switch from .016 to .020 sheet
>could reduce the life
>by a factor of 9.3 and a switch to .025 could reduce the life by a factor of
>86.
>There is engineering that went into this hingeless design that should not be
>ignored.
>
Flutter threshold has not been mentioned , neither has a POSSIBLE change of load
paths. If you're gonna change the primary structure you need to be qualified
to do the analysis, ask the designer, follow the plans or accept the possible
consequences if they befall you and anyone in the seat next to you. LOW&SLOW
John
Message 10
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| Subject: | Have HDS 601 for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Marion Jonker" <desertflyer@earthlink.net>
I have a 601 with a Subaru EA-81 for sale. Was going to parts it out but might
sell it to the right buyer.
I am located in S. Calif. E-mail direcr=t or call for more info. 1-951-927-9640.
Billo J.
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Background: An in-flight failure of the strut attachment section on the
outer wing has led the factory to ground all of its aircraft until
further notice. Investigations into the cause of the failure are being
conducted at the moment
Discussion: The factory issued the following statement via email to
its distributors worldwide:
"Following the accident occurred last week to an airplane model Savanna
in Norway, waiting the informations needed to identify the model, the
owners and the causes, all the owners of airplane Bingo and Savannah are
invited not to make any flight acivity until exaplanation of the causes.
ICP will inform all the customers, dealers and authorities as soon as
possible.
All ICP dealers must inform all the owners of airplane Savannah and
Bingo."
Further Action: The RA-Aus will broadcast any developments from the
factory to the affected owners, until such time as affected serial
numbers can be established or until a fix has been approved.
Mark
Sent per request.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JERICKSON03E@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Savannah
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 7/10/2005 8:41:42 AM Central Daylight Time,
zodierocket@hsfx.ca writes:
Hi List
I have been asked by the RAA to forward a copy of this link
http://www.auf.asn.au/airworthiness/index.html#savannah
To anyone building or flying the 701 copy called a Savannah, I know
there have been builders on this list to get help in there building
troubles. If you're building this plane, please check out the link, it
is a structural failure and has already cost at least one life
Mark
The link does not work for me. What is the nature of the structural
failure?
Jerry
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Jaibaru liability (changed topic) Life Insurance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Bill,
I got a chat with Jim Hoak at the memorial service at Covington
yesterday morning and he said you were doing well with your plane. Just
wanted to say hi again and hope it keeps on being fun. He said you were
getting tired of making small circles to stay in your designated Phase I
hours. I still want to fly down and see the plane and visit, but seems
like stuff keeps coming up. Those hours will build up before you know
it and you can go wherever you want to go.
Ron
N601TD
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
>Al, I didn't know you were an insurance agent ! How is the re building coming
>along ? The only spare ZAC stuff I have is the center line controls kit.
>Your welcome to them if you need to replace yours. I remember you said you
>center spar was damaged. I took my third flight yesterday and was thinking about
>your third landing just as I was flaring too high, but luck was with me and
>ground effect took over and eased her on down. Got in just before the edge on
>Dennis took away VFR. I have a heavy left wing just like everybody else, but I
>figure it is planed such so that with a passenger the thing should fly pretty
>level. Take care and let me know if you need these parts. Bill of Georgia
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Re: 601 XL Materials List - 0.016" vs. 0.020" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Dean:
I noticed you quoted from my email so I feel compelled to explain. I didn't make
my ailerons - I bought them from Jason Isley who had an extra pair nd they
are to specs (.016). I should have explained this in my email. So although the
statement was factual, I should have explained.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
DeanMFord@aol.com wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: DeanMFord@aol.com
>>After completing the tail section I didn't order any more .016" aluminum.
I replaced
>>it all with .020".
I am concerned that some builders might not realize that thicker is not
always better.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Jaibaru liability |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Oh, that hurt . . . Doug you shouldn't judge until you've met the person.
Robert Schoenberger, land developer and licensed land real estate broker.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Fortunato" <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jaibaru liability
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
>
>
>> p.s. Say what you will, but I continue to think
>> that attorneys in general are morally superior to
>> real estate agents.
>
> Oh Doug....say it isn't so. Your post was right on
> until that line. :)
>
> Mike Fortunato
> Licensed Real Estate Broker, Manager, & Developer
>
> definitely do not archive
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://discover.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: <gtamvakis@earthlink.net>
You are correct there was a failure and after the investigation was done
they figured out what happend. The owner who built the plane two years ago
had left it tied down at the aiport outside in Norway in the north sea for
the entire time and under extreme conditions, high winds and severe snow
during the entire year and in a highlly corrosive environment. The owner in
May ordered replacement strut attachements because the ones on the plane
were damaged in the two years past. But he went flying with the plane before
he replaced them, and he had a failure and killed him self and another
person.
Hope that helps and teaches a lesson to the rest of us.
George
----- Original Message -----
From: <JERICKSON03E@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Savannah
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 7/10/2005 8:41:42 AM Central Daylight Time,
> zodierocket@hsfx.ca writes:
>
> Hi List
> I have been asked by the RAA to forward a copy of this link
> http://www.auf.asn.au/airworthiness/index.html#savannah
> To anyone building or flying the 701 copy called a Savannah, I know
> there have been builders on this list to get help in there building
> troubles. If you're building this plane, please check out the link, it
> is a structural failure and has already cost at least one life
>
>
> Mark
> The link does not work for me. What is the nature of the structural
> failure?
> Jerry
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Have HDS 601 for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Langley" <tempaddress@worldhost.net>
What are you asking for it and do you have pictures?
Time on airplane, engine?
Jim!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marion
Jonker
Subject: Zenith-List: Have HDS 601 for sale
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Marion Jonker"
<desertflyer@earthlink.net>
I have a 601 with a Subaru EA-81 for sale. Was going to parts it out but
might sell it to the right buyer.
I am located in S. Calif. E-mail direcr=t or call for more info.
1-951-927-9640. Billo J.
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
IF Robert Kubew is on this list could you please contact me offline so I
can ask a few questions about your sold 701.
Thanks
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: [ Johann G. Johannsson ] : New Email List Photo Share |
Available!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hi Johann
Congratulations for your 701, is a beautifull airplane...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive.
Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Johann G. Johannsson
Lists: Zenith-List
Subject: Completion of my Zenith 701
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/johann@gi.is.07.09.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Jaibaru liability |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
That's totally hysterical. Just a throwaway joke, honest - no offense intended!
:)
Doug
do not archive, please!
Time: 11:06:47 PM PST US
From: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jaibaru liability
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
> p.s. Say what you will, but I continue to think
> that attorneys in general are morally superior to
> real estate agents.
Oh Doug....say it isn't so. Your post was right on
until that line. :)
Mike Fortunato
Licensed Real Estate Broker, Manager, & Developer
Message 20
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| Subject: | nweaa Arlington Flyin volunteer report |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
I spent Sunday through Sunday at Arlington, except for Friday.
I flew in daily from Boeing Field. Friday I went up, flew to the
north end of Lake Washington and returned to base. The ceiling was
1000 feet scattered and 2500 broken but from my vantage point the
envelope was too small. (My minimum ceiling is 2500 feet + stable
or improving.) I was told that some 8 planes arrived that day.
On a good day there is a constant stream of arrivals.
I helped setup aircraft parking Sunday through Tuesday.
Wednesday through Sunday I manned a ramp scooter, escorting planes.
What a thrill, riding beside those planes, keeping folks from
walking into the prop or planes crashing into each other.
Sebastien Heintz arrived Monday in the factory 601XL.
We spent about 30 minutes discussing my experiences with 633Z.
He was genuinely interested in what I had to say.
And I had one of those moments. I used the insight to make a change
in my oil cooler vent and now my oil temps are where I want them.
I spent most of my time on the ramp. So I don't have anything to
report about the forums or workshops. I did go to the gas welding
workshop and learned a few things and I talked to a Lincoln welding
rep (even though I have a Chicago Electric welder from Harbor Freight)
and got some tips to reduce arc welding spatter.
The airshow was awesome. I saw it 4 times. The Yak-Yak performance
is great. A father-son team doing incredible things. And the Harmon
rocket duo was astounding. One flew inverted at ~500 feet while the
other did 6+ aileron rolls around him - unbelievable.
It's was lots of fun being part of the event.
I plan to do it again next year.
Joe E
633Z @ BFI
223 hours
CH601XL, Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x48 wood prop
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633x/
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