Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:45 AM - Re: help ordering hardware (Hunt Malcolm)
2. 04:06 AM - Re: Engine for my 601 XL? (LSA's and certified planes) (Frank Roskind)
3. 05:42 AM - Re:Center stick counterbalance (ron dewees)
4. 06:12 AM - Re: Engine for my 601 XL? (Pete Krotje)
5. 06:28 AM - converted automotive engines (Russell J.)
6. 06:37 AM - Re: help ordering hardware (Larry McFarland)
7. 06:57 AM - Re: Re:Center stick counterbalance (Larry McFarland)
8. 06:57 AM - Re: Re:Center stick counterbalance (N5SL)
9. 07:17 AM - Re: Engine for my 601 XL? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
10. 07:20 AM - 601HD on Amphibs (Zodie Rocket)
11. 07:41 AM - Re: 601HD on Amphibs (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
12. 09:28 AM - Re: Re:Center stick counterbalance (Leo Gates)
13. 10:26 AM - Re: Re:Center stick counterbalance (Leo Corbalis)
14. 12:28 PM - Engine crate handling (Bill Steer)
15. 12:48 PM - Re: Engine crate handling (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
16. 12:55 PM - PRICE REDUCTION - 601XL ELSA (jim)
17. 01:00 PM - Re: PRICE REDUCTION - 601XL ELSA (jim)
18. 01:07 PM - Re: Engine for my 601 XL? (Paul Mulwitz)
19. 01:32 PM - Re: Engine for my 601 XL? (Bryan Martin)
20. 01:43 PM - Re: Engine crate handling (Bryan Martin)
21. 01:48 PM - Re: Re:Center stick counterbalance (Thilo Kind)
22. 01:55 PM - Re: Engine for my 601 XL? (Thilo Kind)
23. 02:01 PM - Re: Engine crate handling (Beckman, Rick)
24. 02:05 PM - Re: Engine crate handling (Phil Maxson)
25. 02:15 PM - Re:Engine crate handling (ruruny@aol.com)
26. 02:27 PM - Re: Engine crate handling (Larry McFarland)
27. 02:52 PM - Re: Engine crate handling (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
28. 03:18 PM - Re: Engine crate handling (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
29. 03:30 PM - Five CH601 sightings in the one day! (royt.or@netzero.com)
30. 04:26 PM - Re: Engine crate handling (Bill Steer)
31. 04:31 PM - Re: Engine crate handling (Robert Schoenberger)
32. 04:35 PM - Re: Engine crate handling (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
33. 04:56 PM - OSH (was 5 sightings) (Lance Gingell)
34. 05:37 PM - Re: Five CH601 sightings in the one day! (Jeff Davidson)
35. 07:10 PM - 601 nosegear stop/rudder centering device (Bob Miller)
36. 07:59 PM - Re: 601 nosegear stop/rudder centering device (Trevor Page)
Message 1
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| Subject: | help ordering hardware |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" <Malcolm.HUNT@networkrail.co.uk>
On a similar topic can any one advise of the manufacturer of the CW5-12 rod end
bearing called up on the plans? The Aurora MW-5 looks similar but is not certified.
Malcolm Hunt
CH601XL Plans Builder England
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike
Fortunato
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: help ordering hardware
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
I ordered mine from Wick's Aircraft Supply (they have the correct part numbers
that ZAC uses, or at least they did when I had to order more).
Mike Fortunato
601XL
kevinbonds <kevinbonds@comcast.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds"
Can someone help me with a recommendation for a substitute for Nutplate
MS21075L3 as called for in my CH601XL plans?
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for my 601 XL? (LSA's and certified planes) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Roskind" <frankroskind@hotmail.com>
Mr. Heintz's designs are numerous, and he has several ventures. New,
certified aircraft, and some SLSA's are produced by Aircraft Manufacturing
and Development www.newplane.com. The Alarus, a certified aircraft which
has an airframe more like the CH 640, has a Lycoming O 235 and two seats.
AMD is apparently also producing a Zodiac XL SLSA with a Continental O-200.
It appears that Czech Aircraft Works is producing an SLSA version of the
Zodiac XL with the Rotax 912S, 100 hp, as well as a Zodiac XL ELSA with a
Rotax 912S. These appear to be for sale at www.sportsplanes.com . There
appear to be some similar activities involving the CH701 series aircraft,
but not with Lycoming or Continental engines. Zenair of Canada makes kits
for the four seat CH640, www.zenair.com , as opposed to Zenith Air of
Missouri, which makes kits for the Zodiac, 701 and 801 at www.zenithair.com
.
Frank R.
...
After several months of confusion, I think I understand enough to
comment on the statement that Zenith is using Lycoming engines in
their factory built.planes. This statement has a number of problems.
First, Zenith Aircraft of Mexico, MO doesn't build airplanes. They
have no intention to do so. They are in the business of selling
plans and kits to mostly US customers. We will never be able to buy
a factory built airplane from this company.
Another company, Czech Aircraft Works (I hope I got the name close)
is producing factory built planes from Heintz designs. This is one
source, perhaps the only one, where Sportsplanes.com will get their
factory built planes. In one case, a CH601XL with Continental engine
is scheduled for delivery to a flight school in California some time
in August. I do not know of any plans for any factory any where to
build this plane using Lycoming engines.
...
Paul
601 XL, barely started.
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re:Center stick counterbalance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi lurkers and drivers. I'm about to climb the walls with messages
about liability so I thought I would throw out a question about actually
flying the 601 rather than making it safe from lawyers.
My 601HDS has a standard center Y stick setup and it flies just fine
that way. My gripe is that on the ground the elevator isn't gravity or
spring loaded and the weight of the elevator pulls on the cables and
jams the Y stick firmly forward into the full down position. Has
anyone thought about, or set up a bungee or spring counter balance for
the stick so that the hands-off position of the stick is somewhere near
neutral? I'm not suggesting any sort of in flight trim system, as the
MAC electric servo works just fine. It's just for the static position
of the stick. Several of my switches and controls are right in front of
the fully deflected "down" stick position and take a beating if the
elevator bounces much.
Thanks for ideas or links
Ron
Message 4
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| Subject: | Engine for my 601 XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" <pkrotje@athenet.net>
Mike,
One othe point of clarification in the release vs warranty issue. The
release is strictly from Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC., not Jabiru
Aircraft Pty, LTD who is the manufacturer. The release says that no
warranty is offered but the release only refers to Jabiru USA. It has no
impact on the engine warranty that Jabiru Australia supplies with each
engine.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Fortunato
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine for my 601 XL?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
> all the extensive problems listed about the total lack of warranty for
> > the Jabiru
Don, I feel a duty to clarify something relating to the Jabiru warranty
issue, since you may be reading some of my posts in the archives. My
original concern was the liability waiver that Jabiru demands you sign in
order to buy their engine. From there, the discussion branched off into many
tangents -- one of which has to do with the warranty. Now, to be clear (as
mud), the waiver does state that no warranty exists, but that is being
countered by Jabiru USA that the engine does indeed carry a one year
warranty. Those are the facts as I know them -- just wanted to be sure none
of my posts were misinterpreted.
You should also know that in spite of my concern, I elected to go with the
Jabiru, for reasons I already wrote about. Feel free to contact me off list
if you want to discuss engine choices further.
Mike Fortunato
Message 5
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| Subject: | converted automotive engines |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Russell J." <entecrj@sbcglobal.net>
> I agree with Don on the question of using an automobile engine in an
> airplane. As far as I can determine, these engines were never
> designed to operate at wide open throttle (WOT) for any length of
> time since this is not the way they are used in automobiles.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When I was running irrigation systems, two of them were using 413 Chrysler
V-8's.
The only modification were hardened valve seats, sodium filled valves, and a
set of murphy gauges.
The engines were connected to a gear head that drove the pump turbine.
These engines operated under full load at 2400 RPM, 24 hours a day, 7 days a
week for two months at a time.
The only time they were shut down was once a week to change oil and check
the plugs.
A few times with two of us working at it, we could change oil and plugs
without shutting the engine off.
So, yes, an automotive engine can be modified to withstand the same
continuous load that an aircraft engine sees!
Russell Johnson
601-HDS
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: help ordering hardware |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Kevin,
Wicks Aircraft 1-800-221-9425 has the part called out listed their part
number MS21075-3 and it is not a nylon locking
nut. This is high temp locking, allows shift for misaligned engagement
of the threads. For use of a substitute,
call Nick at Zenith to get the correct answer.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
kevinbonds wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
>
>Can someone help me with a recommendation for a substitute for Nutplate
>MS21075L3 as called for in my CH601XL plans? Aircraft spruce does not seem
>to have this part. Not sure if it is an all metal or elastic insert
>nutplate. Looks like the thread size is 10-32 as evident from the screw size
>to fit (AN525-10R7). Could I sub MF5000-3 (size 10-32) or AN366-1032A (also
>10-32)? Also the plans regularly call for a specific bolt and washer but do
>not give the appropriate nut. Is it safe to assume a normal fiber insert nut
>is fine (except of course on moving parts)?
>
>
>Kevin Bonds
>
>Nashville TN
>
>601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
>Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
> <http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
>do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re:Center stick counterbalance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Ron,
If you don't have a boot or a retaining ring around the stick, perhaps
the control stick goes closer to the panel
but mine has at least 2-1/2" clearance even without the GPS mount on the
stick. I'd be tempted to remove the stick and bend it so that it
doesn't touch the panel or put a stop in place that would prevent this.
See links for comparative images.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/seatvelcroin.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/GPSmount2.gif
Wish I could give you a better answer for contact with the panel.
Perhaps you have your panel closer than plans?
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
ron dewees wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
>
>
> Several of my switches and controls are right in front of
>the fully deflected "down" stick position and take a beating if the
>elevator bounces much.
>
> Thanks for ideas or links
>Ron
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re:Center stick counterbalance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Thank you Ron for bringing some sanity back to the list! Have you tried a strap
and a hook to hold the yoke up? I had considered putting a spring under my
rear fairing on the horiz. stab, but was severely chastised for this idea by
list members when I brought it up. I still don't understand why this would not
work. I also toyed around with the idea of using a friction lock similar to
a camera tripod leg clamp - just lock it in place in any position.
Right now I have to lift up my elevator to crawl under it a lot (running out of
space in the garage) so I may play around with some ideas and let you know what
I come up with. Please keep me posted on what you end up trying. I've seen
your work and know you are a clever guy. I'm sure you will come up with a good
solution.
Take care,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees
Hi lurkers and drivers. I'm about to climb the walls with messages
about liability so I thought I would throw out a question about actually
flying the 601
---------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Engine for my 601 XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Cost is definatly the driving force behind an auto engine. Lets face it
"proper" aircraft engines cost an outrageous amount of money, not just
to buy but the rebuild cost is almost as much as a new engine.
Auto engine have a few other advantages... Water cooling means (in
theory) longer engine life, no shock cooling.
Picking parts up from Autozone for almost no money is a real pleasure
for me...:)
Oil and the oil is dirt cheap...Ashless dispersant runs close to $4 a
quart!
The "not designed to run continuously at high RPM" argument is simply
bogus...I had a motorcycle that sat at close to 8000RPM all day long, no
problem.
A more accurate argument may be Lycoming crankshafts were a poor design
trying to stand up to the punishment of exremly high torque applied by
very large pistons.....Note the problems with Lyc crankshafts breaking!
Now I'm not Lycoming bashing..I am currently installing one in an
RV...Air cooling means a little less drag. Not too relavent a 100mph but
significant at 200mph+ (drag being proportional to speed squared).
Cooling them evenly looks to be a real chore to get right with the
baffling.
Before anyone mentions it...Lycs will run very happily on autofuel.
So there you go, both paths can be excellent choices.
Frank
Subaru, 360 happy flying hours after the teething troubles were
fixed...:)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
n801bh@netzero.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine for my 601 XL?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com"
--> <n801bh@netzero.com>
I agree with Don on the question of using an automobile engine in an
airplane. As far as I can determine, these engines were never designed
to operate at wide open throttle (WOT) for any length of time since this
is not the way they are used in automobiles. My current understanding
is that the only reason one would consider using such an engine in an
airplane is to save the cost of a real aircraft engine. I would love to
hear conflicting opinions on this subject.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Ok,,, Where do you want to start the discussion??????
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | 601HD on Amphibs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Hi Folks
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. Has been requested by the widow to sell C-FXZI
which is a 1996 CH601HD with a Rotax 914 Turbo and sitting on Zenith
Aircraft Amphibs. Some of you may already know this plane as it has made
several appearances in the Zenith booth at Oshkosh as well as being in
Zenith promotional materials over the years. More information will be
available later this evening on the Can-Zac website.
We are helping the widow without profit so please for those who know the
family contact us directly for details. The plane can be viewed on the
welcome page of www.ch601.org or in many of the Zenith picture
archives.
Thanks folks it is not our intention to ever advertise here but were
trying to help another person out , not make any money.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | 601HD on Amphibs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
We are more than happy to see Zentih's for sale on this list and
applaude you for helping someone out like this.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zodie
Rocket
Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD on Amphibs
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Hi Folks
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. Has been requested by the widow to sell C-FXZI
which is a 1996 CH601HD with a Rotax 914 Turbo and sitting on Zenith
Aircraft Amphibs. Some of you may already know this plane as it has made
several appearances in the Zenith booth at Oshkosh as well as being in
Zenith promotional materials over the years. More information will be
available later this evening on the Can-Zac website.
We are helping the widow without profit so please for those who know the
family contact us directly for details. The plane can be viewed on the
welcome page of www.ch601.org or in many of the Zenith picture
archives.
Thanks folks it is not our intention to ever advertise here but were
trying to help another person out , not make any money.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re:Center stick counterbalance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Gates" <leogates@allvantage.com>
When needed, I throw the sholder harness over the stick to hold it back. No
added weight, stuff to get in the way, etc.
Leo Gates
N601Z
-------Original Message-------
From: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Center stick counterbalance
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
My 601HDS has a standard center Y stick setup and it flies just fine
that way. My gripe is that on the ground the elevator isn't gravity or
spring loaded and the weight of the elevator pulls on the cables and
jams the Y stick firmly forward into the full down position.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re:Center stick counterbalance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
I have a small "L" fitting at the front edge of the shelf, actually it was
the pivot for the support rod on my sied opening canopy which I replaced
with a front hinged one. I use a medium bungee cord to hold the stick back
as a control lock. I have tried a bungee holding the stick full forward but
found that strong wind from the wrong direction could waltz the tail around
on its tie down chain. 601 HDS TD.
Spring loading the elevator cables will make you a REAL TEST PILOT !!!
Leo Corbalis
> Right now I have to lift up my elevator to crawl under it a lot (running
> out of space in the garage) so I may play around with some ideas and let
> you know what I come up with. Please keep me posted on what you end up
> trying. I've seen your work and know you are a clever guy. I'm sure you
> will come up with a good solution.
>
> Take care,
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees
>
> Hi lurkers and drivers. I'm about to climb the walls with messages
> about liability so I thought I would throw out a question about actually
> flying the 601
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Engine crate handling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
My Stratus engine is about to arrive and I'm now faced with figuring out how
to get a 260 pound crate off the delivery truck and into my garage without
killing anyone or breaking anything. How have other folks handled this?
The truck driver claims they can't deliver it with a lift gate truck.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Regards,
Bill
Message 15
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| Subject: | Engine crate handling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
260??....I went to pick mine up and it was bolted to a crate that my
instructor and I manhandled into the back of a C172.
Yours will have a box on it of course but I'm not sure if it will be
that much heavier.
How about picking up the motor from the local truck dock...They can
forklift it onto your truck/trailer and you can take the crate apart
when you get home.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Steer
Subject: Zenith-List: Engine crate handling
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
My Stratus engine is about to arrive and I'm now faced with figuring out
how to get a 260 pound crate off the delivery truck and into my garage
without killing anyone or breaking anything. How have other folks
handled this?
The truck driver claims they can't deliver it with a lift gate truck.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Regards,
Bill
Message 16
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| Subject: | PRICE REDUCTION - 601XL ELSA |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@mail.pellien.com>
The President of SportsPlanes.com just announced today that the next 10 sales of
the ELSA version of the 601XL will have a reduced price of only $59,900. This
price reduction is aimed at generating quick sales during the AirVenture Air
Show.
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim@sportsplanes.com
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: PRICE REDUCTION - 601XL ELSA |
3.40 ADVANCE_FEE_1 Appears to be advance fee fraud (Nigerian 419)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@mail.pellien.com>
Sorry,
I forgot to add in the cost for reaasembly of the aircraft after shipping from
the Czech Republic, an additional $1,260 bringing the grand total for the ELSA
to $61,250
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim@sportsplanes.com
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "jim" <jim@mail.pellien.com>
>The President of SportsPlanes.com just announced today that the next 10 sales
of the ELSA version of the 601XL will have a reduced price of only $59,900. This
price reduction is aimed at generating quick sales during the AirVenture Air
Show.
>
>Jim Pellien
>Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
>www.MASPL.com
>703-313-4818
>jim@sportsplanes.com
>
>
>________________________________________________________________
>Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
>
>
>
>
>
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for my 601 XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>On the Jabiru Warranty issue, I sent an email to Jabiru USA for
>clarification
I received a response from Jabiru including a copy of their
warranty. It is a one year warranty covering parts and labor in
their shop but not labor or shipping necessary to get defective parts
to their shop. This seems pretty normal to me.
After several off-list communications and the ones everyone received,
I am generally convinced auto-based engines can be a fine choice for
Zodiac power. It seems the primary trade-off is cost for purpose
built aircraft engines vs. weight and time to convert and install
auto based engines. I guess I remain convinced the Jabiru 3300 is
the best choice for my plane.
Paul
601 XL, barely started.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for my 601 XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
The fact that auto engines do not normally run continuously at WOT in an
automobile does NOT mean that they were not designed to do so. I've read a
description of the torture tests that new automotive engine designs are put
through by at least one manufacturer and they include long period of WOT
operation and many other tests that are at least as extreme as the
certification testing of an aircraft engine, probably more extreme. You
might find a description of new engine testing in the Rec.avation.homebuilt
Usenet archives.
Many marine gasoline engines are basically auto engine designs with minor
modifications for marine use and these engines routinely run at high
throttle settings for long periods of time while cruising on the water.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 7/13/05 10:17 AM, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) at frank.hinde@hp.com
wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>
> The "not designed to run continuously at high RPM" argument is simply
> bogus...I had a motorcycle that sat at close to 8000RPM all day long, no
> problem.
>
>
> Frank
> Subaru, 360 happy flying hours after the teething troubles were
> fixed...:)
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com"
>> --> <n801bh@netzero.com>
>>
>>
>> I agree with Don on the question of using an automobile engine in an
>> airplane. As far as I can determine, these engines were never designed
>> to operate at wide open throttle (WOT) for any length of time since this
>> is not the way they are used in automobiles. My current understanding
>> is that the only reason one would consider using such an engine in an
>> airplane is to save the cost of a real aircraft engine. I would love to
>> hear conflicting opinions on this subject.
>>
>> //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>>
>>
>> Ok,,, Where do you want to start the discussion??????
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Ben Haas
>> N801BH
>> www.haaspowerair.com
>>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Engine crate handling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
You could stack a few wooden pallets behind the truck and ease it down onto
them from the truck. Used wooden pallets are readily available and many
places would be happy to have you take them off their hands. The crate the
engine comes in is fairly compact and not very awkward to handle for two or
three people. You could probably manhandle it off the truck without too much
trouble with a little help. In fact I've found it's easier to handle than a
typical washing machine, the wooden crate offers a better grip than the
slippery steel surfaces of the washer.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
>
> My Stratus engine is about to arrive and I'm now faced with figuring out how
> to get a 260 pound crate off the delivery truck and into my garage without
> killing anyone or breaking anything. How have other folks handled this?
> The truck driver claims they can't deliver it with a lift gate truck.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re:Center stick counterbalance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi Ron,
why would you do this? I think, it is okay as it is.
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron dewees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Center stick counterbalance
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
>
>
> Hi lurkers and drivers. I'm about to climb the walls with messages
> about liability so I thought I would throw out a question about actually
> flying the 601 rather than making it safe from lawyers.
> My 601HDS has a standard center Y stick setup and it flies just fine
> that way. My gripe is that on the ground the elevator isn't gravity or
> spring loaded and the weight of the elevator pulls on the cables and
> jams the Y stick firmly forward into the full down position. Has
> anyone thought about, or set up a bungee or spring counter balance for
> the stick so that the hands-off position of the stick is somewhere near
> neutral? I'm not suggesting any sort of in flight trim system, as the
> MAC electric servo works just fine. It's just for the static position
> of the stick. Several of my switches and controls are right in front of
> the fully deflected "down" stick position and take a beating if the
> elevator bounces much.
>
> Thanks for ideas or links
> Ron
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for my 601 XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi Ben,
I believe, that this is pure myth. Typical large seize US engines, which run
in the 2,000 RPM range might have this problem. However, most overseas
engine are much smaller in terms of cubic. Thus, they need to rev much
higher in order to produce enough power.
I'm currently driving an Audi A$ with a 1.8 l (!!!) engine. This car barely
revs below 3,000. Most times - on the Autobahn - it runs between 5,000 and
6,000 RPM (equals > 120 mph = faster than my 601 HDS).
No problems with the engine for years.
Best regards
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: <n801bh@netzero.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine for my 601 XL?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com"
<n801bh@netzero.com>
>
>
> I agree with Don on the question of using an automobile engine in an
> airplane. As far as I can determine, these engines were never
> designed to operate at wide open throttle (WOT) for any length of
> time since this is not the way they are used in automobiles. My
> current understanding is that the only reason one would consider
> using such an engine in an airplane is to save the cost of a real
> aircraft engine. I would love to hear conflicting opinions on this
subject.
>
> //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
>
> Ok,,, Where do you want to start the discussion??????
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Engine crate handling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
My Stratus engine is about to arrive and I'm now faced with figuring out how
to get a 260 pound crate off the delivery truck and into my garage without
killing anyone or breaking anything. How have other folks handled this?
The truck driver claims they can't deliver it with a lift gate truck.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Bill, I used a 2X6 and got it under the crate ( the crates usually
have a couple of runners to keep it elevated ) and balanced it. Make sure
the board is at least 8' long and the incline is not too steep. Then just slide
the thing down the "ramp" and use a dolly to get it on inside. Worked great
for me!
Good luck and God Bless!!
Rick
Do not archive, please.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Engine crate handling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
That's what I did for my kit crates. You can even rent a truck by the hour
from Home Depot or Lowes if you don't have one.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
>From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Engine crate handling
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
><frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>How about picking up the motor from the local truck dock...They can
>forklift it onto your truck/trailer and you can take the crate apart
>when you get home.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re:Engine crate handling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ruruny@aol.com
<How have other folks handled this?
<The truck driver claims they can't deliver it with a lift gate truck.
Bill,
If they have a liftgate thats perfect, right onto dolly.
I got my rotax off the truck, well almost , by leaning a long ladder against the
back of the truck and
sliding the engine down the ladder to the ground onto a dolly. This will work great
if the driver does his part by holding the ladder to make sure it doesn't
fall off the back. My driver didn't, and as the ladder and engine fell together
my superhuman strength kicked in and I brought the engine box strapped on pallett
to a smooth landing. My point here is don't depend too much on the driver
at all. My experience with
the freight deliveries is that what they say is not what they do. Usually the guy
at the office you talk to
is pleasant and has great plans to get it off the truck.The guy that delivers it
usually has a bad back,leg and a sore arm and has no idea or could care less
how this thing is getting off of the truck or how much it costs. I'm in the NYC
area so this attitude is the norm for this type of service, you might have
better luck. Be prepared with a neighbor to help or to actually do it yourself.
Its not always possible to have a friend or neighbor to help but in my case
having used nylon straps to secure the ladder to the truck
would have worked fine.
Brian
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Engine crate handling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Bill,
I had the good fortune to have an engine hoist and nylon strapping
with the ratchets available at the time. It worked really well, so I
suppose if you
could borrow or rent one it might be worth the effort. Failing that,
you might have a
tree, a backhoe or a dump truck that you could extend an arm from to
lower the
box. A come-along cable ratchet can be made to do some interesting things.
The other thing is a ramp, made from plywood and 2 x 4s, or any other
kind of
structurals available. You could even get a pickup truck behind the
semi bed and put a ramp
into it so it couldn't slide forward further and let the rear of the
ramp down (2 persons) with
a 2 x 4 across the end. This would reduce the first stage of lowering
by 2 feet or more.
Let us know what you decide to do and how it worked.
Good luck,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Bill Steer wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
>
>My Stratus engine is about to arrive and I'm now faced with figuring out how
>to get a 260 pound crate off the delivery truck and into my garage without
>killing anyone or breaking anything. How have other folks handled this?
>The truck driver claims they can't deliver it with a lift gate truck.
>
>Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
>Regards,
>Bill
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Engine crate handling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I really don't buy the fact it weighs 260lbs ...just sounds too heavy
for two of us to lift it fairly easily...It was a few years back mind.
I would get two friends and use the piece of 2*8 and slide the crate
down method...Use one guy on each side with a rope and lower the beast
down the "slide" with you to position the dolly at the bottom. Sounds
emminantly doable
Assuming you don't want to go pick it up from the dock in your truck.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Steer
Subject: Zenith-List: Engine crate handling
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
My Stratus engine is about to arrive and I'm now faced with figuring out
how to get a 260 pound crate off the delivery truck and into my garage
without killing anyone or breaking anything. How have other folks
handled this?
The truck driver claims they can't deliver it with a lift gate truck.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Regards,
Bill
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Engine crate handling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Bill, perhaps you and another fellow could pick it up and carry it to where
your going to install it and then set it down. Just a thought, Bill
Message 29
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| Subject: | Five CH601 sightings in the one day! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com" <royt.or@netzero.com>
Five CH601 sightings in the one day:
I flew N601RT from Hillsboro to Lake California to visit with Lance and his wife
during the July 4th holiday weekend. Saturday morning, 7/1/05, we walked past
Lances CH601XL (#1) and then flew N601RT (#2) to Orland to look at Arnie Hs
completed CH601XL (#3). Next we stopped at Corning to have lunch at the EAA meeting.
We ran into Bill M and Doug D who are building CH601s. After lunch we flew
to Rancho Tehama to look at Bills CH601HDS TD (#4) and Dougs CH601XL (#5).
I gave Bill a ride in N601RT and when we landed he was so excited he RAN into his
house to get his wife and told her she needed to go for a ride also. She was
very happy to get a ride in a CH601HDS.
Lance has been getting some right seat time in N601RT and from the looks of things
is making good progress toward flying later this year!
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
386hrs, 491 landings
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Engine crate handling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
I hope you're right. Maybe the trucking company had their thumb on the
scale. ;-) I'll let you know after I pick it up on Friday. BTW, I'm using
your "slide it down a 2 x 8" method. Thanks.
Bill
Do not archive
> I really don't buy the fact it weighs 260lbs ...just sounds too heavy
> for two of us to lift it fairly easily...It was a few years back mind.
>
> I would get two friends and use the piece of 2*8 and slide the crate
> down method...Use one guy on each side with a rope and lower the beast
> down the "slide" with you to position the dolly at the bottom. Sounds
> emminantly doable
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Engine crate handling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
I now put my crates on two mover's dollys (a square platform made up of 4
boards, padded, and with large caster wheels at each corner) with a couple
of 2" x 4"'s across either end that are a couple of inches wider than the
crate. Put one of these at each end of the crate. Easy to move around and
one can shove crates together to save space. The dollys are available from
Harbor Freight for about $20 each. Robert Schoenberger 701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Engine crate handling
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> 260??....I went to pick mine up and it was bolted to a crate that my
> instructor and I manhandled into the back of a C172.
>
> Yours will have a box on it of course but I'm not sure if it will be
> that much heavier.
>
> How about picking up the motor from the local truck dock...They can
> forklift it onto your truck/trailer and you can take the crate apart
> when you get home.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Steer
> To: Zenith_list
> Subject: Zenith-List: Engine crate handling
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
>
> My Stratus engine is about to arrive and I'm now faced with figuring out
> how to get a 260 pound crate off the delivery truck and into my garage
> without killing anyone or breaking anything. How have other folks
> handled this?
> The truck driver claims they can't deliver it with a lift gate truck.
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Bill
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Engine crate handling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Home Despot, er....Depot stocks movers dollies as well.
. The dollys are available from
Harbor Freight for about $20 each.
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
Message 33
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| Subject: | OSH (was 5 sightings) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Speaking of same day sightings (Roy, that was a *fun* day :-) Who is going to
be at OSH this year?
I'll be there, probably camping. Unfortunately my XL isn't quite ready yet. I'll
be flying in with a neighbour in his Falco F8L. I'll be at the dinner and hopefully
the Tuesday gathering.
..lance
do not archive otherwise archive searchers will be bored with knowing what they
missed.
N601LG XL, panel/ jab fwf in progress.
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of royt.or@netzero.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Five CH601 sightings in the one day!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com" <royt.or@netzero.com>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Five CH601 sightings in the one day! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Davidson" <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
Five in a day - Fantastic!
Although I missed them by attending only the first stormy day of Sentimental
Journey in Lock Haven, PA, it is rumored that five 601s were at the same
place at the same time later in the event last month! That would be a
record of some sort, I believe.
Jeff D.
do not archive
Message 35
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| Subject: | 601 nosegear stop/rudder centering device |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
Dear fellow makers-of-aluminum-dust,
In the past there have been discussions about the Zenith
metal-to-metal design of the nosegear stop/rudder centering device.
People have been concerned that this design might cause excessive wear
as well as excessive friction on turning [which might be a
contributing factor in the sometimes-reported rudder pedal breakage].
As some recommended, I built mine with inserts made of cutting board
pieces. (Probably Delrin--not as good as UHMW material, but strong
enough, I think/thought, to work.) Unfortunately, the gear seems
excessively difficult to turn with the rudder pedals, especially in
the inflight position. I don't know how this might compare with the
original design, but it is unlikely to be worse for friction.
Probably either 1] the angle of the V is too sharp, and/or 2] the
material of the cutting board is just not slippery enough to
facilitate turning... ?
Perhaps removing the plastic and using springs to center the pedals
instead of the V in the nosegear stop would be better?
Sure would appreciate the insights and experience of the builders and
flyers in this collectively brilliant group!
--
Bob Miller
601HD N722Z
Charlottesville, Virginia
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: 601 nosegear stop/rudder centering device |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Bob, I added some delrin to the nose gear on mine and thought it
might be a bit tight when I was building it. I made sure the V that
was cut in the bottom bearing was just slight, enough to keep the
gear centered in flight but not enough to impede steering on the ground.
I was very happy when I taxied the first time to see that steering
was very easy. The top bearing I left alone with metal-to-metal but
added a bit of grease. She was really noisy for the first few hours
but now I can report that it doesn't squeak anymore (probably the
grease setting in).
My main gear on the other hand is really stiff. The bungies haven't
worn in and I suspect they will be a while before they relax. I check
the grease mark on the main slides underneath and I haven't seen any
movement yet.
I've seen another 601HD around here with 1100 hours on it and they
are nice and smooth and the stop on that plane is about a half-inch
above the top plate.
Trev Page
601HD R912
C-IDUS
On Jul 13, 2005, at 10:08 PM, Bob Miller wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
>
> Dear fellow makers-of-aluminum-dust,
>
> In the past there have been discussions about the Zenith
> metal-to-metal design of the nosegear stop/rudder centering device.
> People have been concerned that this design might cause excessive wear
> as well as excessive friction on turning [which might be a
> contributing factor in the sometimes-reported rudder pedal breakage].
>
> As some recommended, I built mine with inserts made of cutting board
> pieces. (Probably Delrin--not as good as UHMW material, but strong
> enough, I think/thought, to work.) Unfortunately, the gear seems
> excessively difficult to turn with the rudder pedals, especially in
> the inflight position. I don't know how this might compare with the
> original design, but it is unlikely to be worse for friction.
> Probably either 1] the angle of the V is too sharp, and/or 2] the
> material of the cutting board is just not slippery enough to
> facilitate turning... ?
>
> Perhaps removing the plastic and using springs to center the pedals
> instead of the V in the nosegear stop would be better?
>
> Sure would appreciate the insights and experience of the builders and
> flyers in this collectively brilliant group!
>
> --
> Bob Miller
> 601HD N722Z
> Charlottesville, Virginia
>
>
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