Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:09 AM - Re: Engine crate handlingEngine crate handling (Larry Portouw)
2. 05:45 AM - Re: Engine for my 601 XL? (ron dewees)
3. 07:22 AM - Re: 601 nosegear stop/rudder centering device (Bob Miller)
4. 09:29 AM - New to the group. (Dave Ruddiman)
5. 11:03 AM - Re: New to the group. (Larry McFarland)
6. 12:05 PM - 801 info (Keystone Engineering LLC)
7. 12:47 PM - [ Wayne Beattie ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
8. 02:12 PM - 701 Fuselage gussets (Robert Schoenberger)
9. 02:34 PM - Re: New to the group. (Ron Culver)
10. 03:21 PM - Re: Engine for my 601 XL? (NYTerminat@aol.com)
11. 03:27 PM - A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTROL (Garey Wittich)
12. 03:48 PM - Re: New to the group. (Jon Croke)
13. 03:55 PM - 701 fuselage gussets (fred sanford)
14. 05:18 PM - Re: New to the group. (Jon Croke)
15. 05:21 PM - Re: 701 Fuselage gussets (NYTerminat@aol.com)
16. 06:00 PM - Re: 701 Fuselage gussets (Paul Mulwitz)
17. 06:06 PM - Re: New to the group. (Paul Mulwitz)
18. 06:08 PM - Re: New to the group. (Monty Graves)
19. 06:47 PM - Corvair engine (Dave Ruddiman)
20. 06:53 PM - 601 Canopy lessons learned? (Mark Stauffer)
21. 07:05 PM - Re: 701 Fuselage gussets (Rick R)
22. 07:11 PM - Prop to cowling distance? (scotty scotty)
23. 07:55 PM - Re: 601 Canopy lessons learned? (Brandon Tucker)
24. 08:13 PM - Re: New to the group. (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
25. 08:42 PM - Re: 601 Canopy lessons learned? (Mike Fortunato)
26. 08:46 PM - Re: Corvair engine (Craig Payne)
27. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: 601 Canopy lessons learned? (Mark Stauffer)
28. 09:23 PM - Re: 601 Canopy lessons learned? (Jack Russell)
29. 09:41 PM - Re: Corvair engine (Dave Ruddiman)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine crate handlingEngine crate handling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Portouw" <Larry@portouw.com>
I always found that a call to your EAA chapter with a promise of beer and
pizza made crate moving a breeze!
Larry Portouw
Atlanta
601XL
Do not archive
Three 1" - 1 1/2" dia. dowels a little wider than the crate and placed under
the crate once it's on the ground help to move it along. As it goes
forth
take the dowel at the rear and move it to the front. Not as good as
the
dollies, but workable. robert schoenberger 701 do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike honer" <amhoner@rtmc.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine crate handling
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" <amhoner@rtmc.net>
>
> Very exciting when a big piece is about to arrive. WhatIi have done
many
> times is to have the heavy piece delivered to the local terminal ,
hold
> for
> pickup. Then, I drive my car over, with the little trailer attached.
> Yellow
> Freight are great! they will deliver the box to the trailer, which
takes
> the
> height down to 18 inches, where it can be handled to the ground with
2x4's
> and a come-a-long.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for my 601 XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hay Guys,
I have a request for listers to this thread, or is it a rope at this point?
I think I have counted over 100 postings to this subject and the content
has gone from informative to a pissing contest, personal attacks, lawyer
bashing, EIS systems, and engine leaning techniques.
PLEASE change the subject if it's not related to the original post.
I've started deleting all "engine for my 601XL" messages and might miss
something interesting.
Thanks
Ron in Atlanta
do not archive
roy vickski wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: roy vickski <rvickski@yahoo.com>
>
>So Don, once you get all the gaps filled in your
>knowledge will you let us in on your findings? or will
>we have to pay for them as a ASTM or SAE publication.
>
>I seem to remember way back in the 70's that the Ford
>Pinto was the low cost, best solution and competed
>with GM's low cost best solution (Vega), but what do I
>know I drove old Caddys and M Benz.
>
>Roy Szarafinski
>701 plans, corvair plans, efi ect.
>
>Post Script
>Do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 601 nosegear stop/rudder centering device |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
Thanks Trev and Max for the feedback; between the two of you, I think
you pretty much put the subject to bed!
A couple questions, tho--
Trev, glad to hear the delrin works well--how thick a piece did you use?
And Max, it was great to get such extensive and specific info on
bearings. It sounds like all scratch builders ought to consider this
option, and that if one does the work to retrofit glide bearings one
might as well put in roller bearings. I'm probably too mechanically
challenged to try the retrofit, but maybe you could provide a few more
details on "dremeling away the welded bolts and using through bolts
for the steering rods"? I gather that by "through bolts" you don't
mean just replacing the bolts that were dremelled away. Are you
talking about a different kind of bolt, or a modification to the
steering rods?
Appreciado,
Bob
Message 4
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| Subject: | New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Hello All,
I just joined this group yesterday. I haven't read through to much of the previous
information yet. I have previously built the tail group and wings for a 601HDS
which were destroyed in the garage. That's another story. Built the rudder
for a 701, and have just ordered the tail kit for the 601 XL. I did get a chance
for a quick demo flight in the red and white 601XL at the Arlington fly-in.
That's what ultimately pushed me over the edge again to start another project.
This one will get finished and fly. Haven't quite figured out how to break
it to the wife yet that I am starting another project. I guess it will just be
a big surprise. I live in Salem, Oregon. Is anyone around that is fairly close
to me building? I hope this is the correct way to post a message.
Dave
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Welcome Dave,
You've picked the right aircraft and I hope you have an understanding
wife. It took a while for mine
to get used to my need to build, but I couldn't have done it without her.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Dave Ruddiman wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>
>Hello All,
>
>I just joined this group yesterday. I haven't read through to much of the previous
information yet. I have previously built the tail group and wings for a 601HDS
which were destroyed in the garage. That's another story. Built the rudder
for a 701, and have just ordered the tail kit for the 601 XL. I did get a chance
for a quick demo flight in the red and white 601XL at the Arlington fly-in.
That's what ultimately pushed me over the edge again to start another project.
This one will get finished and fly. Haven't quite figured out how to break
it to the wife yet that I am starting another project. I guess it will just
be a big surprise. I live in Salem, Oregon. Is anyone around that is fairly close
to me building? I hope this is the correct way to post a message.
>
>Dave
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone@gci.net>
Don
I love my 801. Yes, the list is overwhelmed by 601 enthusiasts. If I lived in
America and was going airport to airport a 601 would be a great plane. I'm quite
sure there are more people with that mission than there are in mine.
I love going to the beaches and sand bars with several friend. The old adage goes,
pick your mission then pick your iron. If you want to go from airport to
airport with one other person you should build a 601. If you want to go do some
fun flying I recommend a pickup truck like the 801.
One of the things I do with my 801 is go hunting for a week or two a couple of
times per year. When I go I put 2 people and 2 weeks of gear in the back, then
bring home 200-400 lbs of meat. But I would like to go faster than the 103
mph too. There are sacrifices in everything you do.
I have a Lycoming-auruses in mine. Lycomings have always brought me home. If
I have lots of time and little money, I too would look at a rotary engine. The
only problem is you then need a reduction gear with the accompanying weight
and complexities. When I owned an RX-7 I never could figure out how to get to
stop using oil.
To my knowledge there is not an 801 on floats, yet. If I can scrape together the
money I may put mine on Full Lotus floats this year.
Enjoy the process of building the plane. Life is too short to not enjoy each stage.
Bill Wilcox
Valdez, AK
N801BW
175 hrs
The salmon are running hot and heavy.
Want a couple hundred pink salmon? Bring your pick up truck by and we will fill
it up.
Time: 09:03:15 AM PST US
From: Don Boeck <boeck5001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: CH-801 Info
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Boeck <boeck5001@yahoo.com>
Fellow Enthusiasts,
I have been "lurking" on this site for a while.
Initial impression: this site is primarily 601, with a
scattering of 701.
Am I where I need to be re: 801 info? I am guessing
"yes" and to just keep lurking until the 801 gains
builders. Any advice re: 801-specific sites?
I will retire end of 2005. Wife and I are building in
NE Tennessee, Norris Lake. Plan is to build a
rotary-powered 801 on floats. Primary use will be
getting to and from fishing spots and BBQs at
neighbors. It would be nice to contact/meet fellow
builders in the area. EAA for sure.
FWIW, I too have a degree in engineering; couldn't
care less about an engine matrix (I am capable of
doing my own research); no, my mind isn't made up -
still open to suggestions (from what I read, a rotary
has less moving parts, less vibration, and, who knows,
when someone with 4,000 hrs tach time checks in, it
may even be as reliable and cost effective as many
others); with only some 4k to 5K hrs flight time in GA
aircraft (22K total, 2K in radials), I suspect I too
do not know how to properly lean an engine; this may
be moot, however, should an EFI Mazda 13b or Renesis
end up on the blunt end of my flying machine.
Sorry for the lengthy post, it's my first. I suspect
now that I have "laid my cards on the table",
responses and further posts will be SATTP.
Thanks,
Don B 0%
P.S. Am considering putting my 100hp Cessna 120 on
floats - comments anyone?
Message 7
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| Subject: | [ Wayne Beattie ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Wayne Beattie <waynebeattie@optonline.net>
Lists: Zenith-List
Subject: Zodiacs at Sentimental Journey, Lock Haven Pa.
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/waynebeattie@optonline.net.07.16.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | 701 Fuselage gussets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
List . . . I know I must be missing something obvious. On page 2 of 12, Section
4 of the photo assembly guide for the 701 fuselage, it calls for 10 gussets
made of .025" "extra material". These are the 50 x 50 mm corner gussets where
the horizontal skin L's meet the vertical skin L's. I've gone through my scrap
bin three times and everything sizeable is .016". Obviously, I'm building
from the kit and not scratch. Where did the rest of you get this "extra material".
Thanks in advance. Robert Schoenberger 701 55%
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
Newby here as well.I have built the 701 Rudder from the kit but wish to
build the rest from scratch. Doing the rudder with pop rivets was almost too
easy. Now I have the aluminum and have built the forms for the wing ribs etc
but need to do the spar web. That calls for hard rivets which I have never
done. I am building the"Rivet Setter For Spars" rig that is posted on the
builders site but have no idea how to set it up for the riveting. I don't
even know the terminology used for the parts that are on either side of
the rivet when they are set. If I knew those terms I could look up the
correct parts. The rivets are all AN 470-AD-4-4, -4-5,-5-7 andAN-470- A-3-3.
I have the rivets which appear to be anodized aluminum ( I got them directly
from Zenith so I assume they are correct). I need some advise on the names
of the parts to complete the Rivet Setter and the procedure to set the
rivets correctly. Thanks in advance.. Ron Culver East Greenbush,NY
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: New to the group.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>
> Hello All,
>
> I just joined this group yesterday. I haven't read through to much of the
> previous information yet. I have previously built the tail group and wings
> for a 601HDS which were destroyed in the garage. That's another story.
> Built the rudder for a 701, and have just ordered the tail kit for the 601
> XL. I did get a chance for a quick demo flight in the red and white 601XL
> at the Arlington fly-in. That's what ultimately pushed me over the edge
> again to start another project. This one will get finished and fly.
> Haven't quite figured out how to break it to the wife yet that I am
> starting another project. I guess it will just be a big surprise. I live
> in Salem, Oregon. Is anyone around that is fairly close to me building? I
> hope this is the correct way to post a message.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for my 601 XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
Bill
WELL SAID!!
Message 11
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| Subject: | A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTROL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000@yahoo.com>
> This Information comes from my own research which I
did for
> my RV-8A, which I am building. Information applies
to both Aluminum and Composite aircraft. This is the
3th printing.
>
> --------------- ------------- ------------
>
> SAVE YOURSELF hundreds of hours of research time and
> building time, by using the comprehensive
>
> "Guide to Painting & Corrosion Control of Aluminum
> and
> Composite Aircraft"
>
> This book took over 600+ hours of research time by
> me,
> a fussy RV-8A Builder. Contains 69 pages of the
> latest, practical information - summarized and
> gathered from MIL Standards, Paint Shops, Builders
> like you (what worked or didn't), Airframe Mfgs,
> etc.
> Covers products from PP&G, Dupont, Sherwin W'ms,
> Sterling, Poly Fiber, Deft, Randolph Paints, PRC De
> Soto, US Paints, Aircraft Finishing Systems, 3M,
> etc.
>
> Some of the Topics covered in the 30 Sections are:
> * Aircraft Paints vs Auto Paints and Other
> Considerations
> * Corrosion Control
> * Spray Guns - selecting, adjusting, using
> and painting problems
> * Brushes / Rollers used with Primers &
> Paints
> * Prep Methods for Painting - Fiberglass,
> Steel and Aluminum
> * Epoxy Primers for Aluminum - MIL &
> Commercial, Solvent & Water Reducible
> * Primers for Fiberglass & Steel
> * Wash Primers & Self Etching Primers
> * Other Primers - Zinc Chromate,Zinc Oxide,
> Enamel
> * Paint Types: MIL & Non MIL Polyurethanes
> Enamel Types
> Acrylics - Lacquers & Enamels
> * Acid Etch / Conversion Coatings (Alodine)
> * Selecting a Paint Shop
> * 3M Cleaning Pads, Liquid Cleaner
> compatibility
> * Paint Booths and their Construction
> * References - MIL Standards & Tech Orders
> * Directory of Aircraft Paint Mfgs, Distrib-
> utors, etc. E-Mail addresses, phone
> numbers, Application Notes
>
> YOUR AIRPLANE is judged by it's Paint Job and it is
> costly too, so have the latest "Information" in
> order
> to make good decisions. Contains plenty of "Do's"
> and
> "Don'ts" that save you time, money and frustration.
>
> Send a check for $26 to (includes Postage within the
> US) to:
> Garey Wittich RV-8A Builder
> 58 Village Parkway
> Santa Monica, CA. 90405
>
>
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Ron,
Just one opinion... get yourself a rivet gun and bucking bar..... you may
find that the rivet setter *may* not work on the 701 fuse sides due to the
hard to get to areas involved wth those pieces... take a look at the plans
and you decide. Riveting with a rivet gun didnt take too long to learn!
Yes, you would need an air compressor, too.
Good luck and welcome to the List.
Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the group.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
>
> Newby here as well.I have built the 701 Rudder from the kit but wish to
> build the rest from scratch. Doing the rudder with pop rivets was almost
> too
> easy. Now I have the aluminum and have built the forms for the wing ribs
> etc
> but need to do the spar web. That calls for hard rivets which I have never
> done. I am building the"Rivet Setter For Spars" rig that is posted on the
> builders site but have no idea how to set it up for the riveting. I don't
> even know the terminology used for the parts that are on either side of
> the rivet when they are set. If I knew those terms I could look up the
> correct parts. The rivets are all AN 470-AD-4-4, -4-5,-5-7 andAN-470-
> A-3-3.
> I have the rivets which appear to be anodized aluminum ( I got them
> directly
> from Zenith so I assume they are correct). I need some advise on the names
> of the parts to complete the Rivet Setter and the procedure to set the
> rivets correctly. Thanks in advance.. Ron Culver East Greenbush,NY
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: New to the group.
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
>> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I just joined this group yesterday. I haven't read through to much of the
>> previous information yet. I have previously built the tail group and
>> wings
>> for a 601HDS which were destroyed in the garage. That's another story.
>> Built the rudder for a 701, and have just ordered the tail kit for the
>> 601
>> XL. I did get a chance for a quick demo flight in the red and white 601XL
>> at the Arlington fly-in. That's what ultimately pushed me over the edge
>> again to start another project. This one will get finished and fly.
>> Haven't quite figured out how to break it to the wife yet that I am
>> starting another project. I guess it will just be a big surprise. I live
>> in Salem, Oregon. Is anyone around that is fairly close to me building? I
>> hope this is the correct way to post a message.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | 701 fuselage gussets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford <sonar1@cox.net>
The gussets are supplied. On the parts list. I got mine as a package of
squares. 7F3-2A I believe.................Fred
Sanford.701............rebuilding wing after the crash-into.
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Ron,
I took another look at my fuse sides, and there is a good chance that the
manual riveter WOULD work,, I was concerned about the depth of the throat
reaching the most inner rivets... so I stand corrected... maybe! But I
would still prefer a gun... thats just me. Just didnt want to be
misleading.
Jon
>Just one opinion... get yourself a rivet gun and bucking bar..... you may
find that the rivet setter *may* not work on the 701 fuse sides due to the
hard to get to areas involved wth those pieces... take a look at the plans
and you decide. Riveting with a rivet gun didnt take too long to learn!
Yes, you would need an air compressor, too.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the group.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
>
> Newby here as well.I have built the 701 Rudder from the kit but wish to
> build the rest from scratch. Doing the rudder with pop rivets was almost
> too
> easy. Now I have the aluminum and have built the forms for the wing ribs
> etc
> but need to do the spar web. That calls for hard rivets which I have never
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Fuselage gussets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
Robert.
There was plenty of material in my crate to make the gussets. As an afternote
check all your parts because after they were made and installed I found them
in my vat array of parts already made. They are not very big and were all
taped together.
Bob Spudis
CH-701, 912S
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Fuselage gussets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>List . . . I know I must be missing something obvious. On page 2 of
>12, Section 4 of the photo assembly guide for the 701 fuselage, it
>calls for 10 gussets made of .025" "extra material". These are the
>50 x 50 mm corner gussets where the horizontal skin L's meet the
>vertical skin L's. I've gone through my scrap bin three times and
>everything sizeable is .016". Obviously, I'm building from the kit
>and not scratch. Where did the rest of you get this "extra
>material". Thanks in advance. Robert Schoenberger 701 55%
If all else fails, you can order a piece of aluminum from www.onlinemetals.com
They have treated me very nicely - so long as you don't mind paying
more for shipping than for the metal. They are in Seattle, WA, so
great for west coast folks.
Good luck,
Paul
601 XL barely started
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>Doing the rudder with pop rivets was almost too
>easy. Now I have the aluminum and have built the forms for the wing ribs etc
>but need to do the spar web. That calls for hard rivets which I have never
>done. I am building the"Rivet Setter For Spars" rig that is posted on the
>builders site but have no idea how to set it up for the riveting. I don't
>even know the terminology used for the parts that are on either side of
>the rivet when they are set.
I broke down and ordered the book recommended by Zenith -- Standard
Aircraft Handbook. It has a lot to say about solid rivets. It also
has great information on nearly everything else you need to learn
like aircraft plumbing, bending sheet metal, and other black arts. I
got mine from Amazon.com, but I am sure there are many other sources.
Good luck,
Paul
601 XL barely started
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
Hi Ron,
Welcome to the group.
I am guessing you, mean one of the two Rivet Setters on the www.ch701.com
web site
http://www.ch701.com/Tools/homemade_tools.htm
I just finished making my 701 spars with the first one on the above
page.. And it worked VERY WELL. However the 701 spar is a little
different than the 601 spar the rivet setter was made for. Its an easy
fix if known about in advance. Since the 701 has 3/4 inch angles turned
in both directions on the spar. The reach of the rivet squezze set needs
to be built up so that the 3/4 inch angles clears the base.
I will send you a picture of mine off list if you want. Other wise you can
look at it on the 701builders Yahoo web site.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/701builders/files/
The parts I think you referr too. Are hand rivet squezze sets. These
are little cup dies, that slip in a hand rivet squezzer, and cost about
$3.00 each from a aircraft tool supply house. You will need one for the
1/8 inch rivets, and one for the 5/32 rivets. and if you use the other
rivet setter that has a lever built in you will need the smooth flush face
die as well. Another $3.00 Other wise, you need a 1/2 inch long bolt
or rod. I used a Grade 8 bolt 7 inches long with one end cut off and the
end sanded and polished smooth. You don't want to transferr any ridges to
the rivet. And this bolt is struck with a 3 pound sledge hammer. A good
set usually takes 2 blows, sometimes 3.
Jon Crooke, brings up a good point. The cabin sides also are put
together with solid rivets. and the depth of the rivet tool may not allow a
few of the these rivets to be set since the bent cabin piece sheet part
number 7-F-9-1 bend is 146mm tall. About 5 3/4 inches. Which is taller
than the 4 inch throat of the rivet setter... I think that all the rivets
can be reached by turning the piece and coming in from a different
direction...... BUT I just cut my pieces out this last friday, and I
haven't tried yet. I will let you know in the next week or so.
Although I think if worse comes to worse that at most 4 or 5 rivets would
have to be set by a punch and hammer with a steel plate backing as shown in
the Zenith Assembly manual. Or a person could just take the cup out of the
setter, drill a hole in a piece of scrap steel, and take the bolt out and
do these few rivets that way.
This bench mounted rivet tool costs about $25-35 to build, is simple to
use, makes a REALLY REALLY good rivet set, And I would disagree with
Jon, about buying a rivet gun unless you think there is going to be a RV
airplane in your future.
It took about 40-50 man hours to make the rivet tool and make my 701 spars.
Monty Graves
At 05:34 PM 7/16/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
>
>Newby here as well.I have built the 701 Rudder from the kit but wish to
>build the rest from scratch. Doing the rudder with pop rivets was almost too
>easy. Now I have the aluminum and have built the forms for the wing ribs etc
>but need to do the spar web. That calls for hard rivets which I have never
>done. I am building the"Rivet Setter For Spars" rig that is posted on the
>builders site but have no idea how to set it up for the riveting. I don't
>even know the terminology used for the parts that are on either side of
>the rivet when they are set. If I knew those terms I could look up the
>correct parts. The rivets are all AN 470-AD-4-4, -4-5,-5-7 andAN-470- A-3-3.
>I have the rivets which appear to be anodized aluminum ( I got them directly
>from Zenith so I assume they are correct). I need some advise on the names
>of the parts to complete the Rivet Setter and the procedure to set the
>rivets correctly. Thanks in advance.. Ron Culver East Greenbush,NY
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: New to the group.
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
> > <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I just joined this group yesterday. I haven't read through to much of the
> > previous information yet. I have previously built the tail group and wings
> > for a 601HDS which were destroyed in the garage. That's another story.
> > Built the rudder for a 701, and have just ordered the tail kit for the 601
> > XL. I did get a chance for a quick demo flight in the red and white 601XL
> > at the Arlington fly-in. That's what ultimately pushed me over the edge
> > again to start another project. This one will get finished and fly.
> > Haven't quite figured out how to break it to the wife yet that I am
> > starting another project. I guess it will just be a big surprise. I live
> > in Salem, Oregon. Is anyone around that is fairly close to me building? I
> > hope this is the correct way to post a message.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Who amongst the group has installed a Corvair in their plane? How do you like it.
Pros and cons? I really like the Jabiru, but the Corvair is way cheaper.
Dave
Message 20
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| Subject: | 601 Canopy lessons learned? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
To the 601 builders,
I've just started on the canopy and would to hear of any tricks, procedures,
voodoo magic or whatever that you used to get this thing on the right way
the first time. I've got the front hinge finished and am about to work on
the top skin tomorrow. I've read through the directions and now I would like
to learn from those that have "been there and done that".
Did you have to sit in the fuselage a lot? That's a big concern of mine
because I'll have to move the fuselage to another location.
Also, I've been considering putting in nut plates for the top skin. For
those of you that riveted the top skin on have you regretted it? If you were
to do it over would you install nut plates this time? Just curious.
When spacing the nut plates on the firewall flange I found that 50mm spacing
seems to work much better (I haven't drilled the holes yet). On the panel
side just about all you can do is place them between the flutes. For those
that did use nut plates any "gotchas" to watch for?
As always thank you very much for any help/advice.
Mark Stauffer
Odenton, MD
601XL SN 4999
N624MK reserved
Sweating about the canopy!
Do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Fuselage gussets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick R <n701rr@yahoo.com>
Robert,
They were just misc sized pieces of .025 sandwiched in the bottom of the crate
that the fuse came in. Sort of a grab bag of misc aluminum.
Robert Schoenberger <hrs1@frontiernet.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger"
---------------------------------
List . . . I know I must be missing something obvious. On page 2 of 12, Section
4 of the photo assembly guide for the 701 fuselage, it calls for 10 gussets made
of .025" "extra material". These are the 50 x 50 mm corner gussets where the
horizontal skin L's meet the vertical skin L's. I've gone through my scrap
bin three times and everything sizeable is .016". Obviously, I'm building from
the kit and not scratch. Where did the rest of you get this "extra material".
Thanks in advance. Robert Schoenberger 701 55%
Rick
Orlando, FL. USA
http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html
Message 22
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| Subject: | Prop to cowling distance? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: scotty scotty <scotty245@yahoo.com>
Just finished molding my 701 nosepiece, front part of cowling, the rest is aluminum.
My situation is that i only have maybe 1 to 1.5 inches(as nosepiece curves
out and back) between the trailing edge of Powerfin prop and gear box of
the Hirth F30 for cowling to fit in, assuming i crank alot of pitch,i'd hate to
build it too tight and not be able to use all the pitch for the engine. The
otherside is that if too close to the engine will viberate and rub against the
kevlar nosepiece. Is there a certain minimun distance from cowling to prop?
I read something about it could be louder if its too close, but didn't find
anything affecting performance? Another thing is that the engine is aircooled,
so need to keep good airflow going in duct holes on nosepiece. Also i've thought
on a prop spacer, but wasn't sure how thick or if it could shorten the gearbox
life? Didn't see any in Aircraftspruce book where are they avail? Thanks
for all the advice.
Scotty Armstead
701 -90%
Message 23
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| Subject: | RE: 601 Canopy lessons learned? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Mark,
Look in the archives about the canopy bows. I
think it was Frank who shared the idea of filling the
tubing with sand and taping the ends to allow for
bending without flat spots. Getting the bows to the
correct curvature was the most difficult part of the
whole build. I built mine from scratch, and after a
long search for latch mechanisms, and considering
building them from scratch, I just bought the setup
from Zenith and welded on myself. If you are building
from kit - not an issue.
I placed the canopy under a very small space
heater for several hours before working on it - just
to make sure it was not cold. I'm sure you know that
you should use a plexiglass drill bit. The reason for
this is that standard drill bits are actually cut at
an angle into the direction of rotation. This is what
causes it to catch in the plexiglass and crack. If
you compare one with a regular drill bit, you will see
what I mean. Step drill bits are cut 90 deg from the
center like a plexiglass bit, which is why they are ok
to use.
Above all, be patient. When I broke my first
canopy bow, I was fuming, and it almost landed on my
wife's new car after flying 20' into the air, after I
threw it on the ground. -Not my best moment... I
walked away for a week after that one...
R/
Brandon
Building Corvair motor
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 7/16/2005 8:09:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net writes:
That calls for hard rivets which I have never
>done.
Now would be a good time to join an EAA Chapter, and to get connected with
EAA Technical Advisors.
Most chapter members will assist with skills, and will share tools once you
are a chapter member, and confess inexperience.
The Tech Advisors will help document inspections as you progress. Great
support.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Canopy lessons learned? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
> I would liketo learn from those that have "been
there >and done that".
First, take it from someone who has had to buy two
canopy bubbles. Make sure you drill the bubble using
the techniques provided, and most importantly -- do it
in warm (preferably hot) weather!
> Did you have to sit in the fuselage a lot?
Wasn't necessary for me, but I'm only 5'9" so headroom
wasn't an issue.
> Also, I've been considering putting in nut plates
> for the top skin.
I riveted the top skin, but cut a large access panel
in the top skin, which is actually two panels that are
hinged in the middle, and the edges are fastened with
nutplates. Make it MUCH easier to work behind the
instrument panel and on the inside of the firewall.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair engine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
Just to cover the obvious, you have been to William Wynne's site and
seen his 601XL w/Corvair? And hopefully you have found the Corvair list:
http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html
One part of the equation that is changing is the availability of FWF
parts. Jabiru (also through Zenith) offers a nice, complete FWF kit. But
WW is getting close to offering everything too. He has offered the nose
bowl and engine mount for some time now and is beginning to ship intake
and exhaust manifolds. The intake manifolds as made for the Ellison or
the MA-3SPA that WW prefers. The sheet metal from the cowling back to
the firewall is pretty simple: no compound curves.
Ignoring cost it really comes down to what you feel comfortable with. If
auto-conversions make you feel uncomfortable then go with the Jabiru
3300. That gets you a proven aircraft engine with dual ignition. But I
(and others) trust and respect WW's efforts to produce hard data showing
the qualities of the Corvair *if* you follow his guidelines. I helped
(stayed out of the way) rebuild my Corvair at WW's hanger at the end of
April and have bought just about everything he makes for the XL/Corvair
combo (including some parts that don't exist yet). All I've got to do
now is put it all together and learn to fly it. I could afford the
Jabiru (if I sold my wife into slavery) but the Corvair conversion is
just more interesting and in the spirit of experimental aviation.
You should also ask your question on the Corvair list - you may reach a
different set of people.
-- Craig
Dave Ruddiman wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>
> Who amongst the group has installed a Corvair in their plane? How do you like
it. Pros and cons? I really like the Jabiru, but the Corvair is way cheaper.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | RE: 601 Canopy lessons learned? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
Brandon,
Thanks for the reminder of the archives and for your other advice. I did buy
a set of Plexiglas drills for this several months ago and now will finally
put them to use, CAREFULLY!!
Mark
Do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Canopy lessons learned? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Hey Mark: Glad to see you are still at it. I got sidelined with the painting and
just haven't been able to get over that hump. Anyway, I drilled the canopy with
a regular 1/16" drill and then used a step bit and it worked fine for me.
The temp was around 60 deg but I think it would be even better at summer temps.
My 4" angle grinder seemed to work fine for shaping the canopy to the fuselage
but maybe I was just lucky. I did go slow with everything. As far as the top
skin, I used 8/32 modac (sp?) nuts (which look like a u bolt with a captive
nut) instead of rivets. After working under the panel of my ercoupe I never want
that experience again. The whole top is removable even though it means 100
screws. I made the "wings" (that cover the hinge bolts) on the top skin seperate.
This was mainly due to a mistake but now I don't have to remove them when
I take off the top skin. Jack in Clovis CA
Mark Stauffer <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com> wrote:
I've just started on the canopy and would to hear of any tricks, procedures,
voodoo magic or whatever that you used to get this thing on the right way
the first time.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair engine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Yes to all of that. Just find out from someone who has done it.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair engine
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> Just to cover the obvious, you have been to William Wynne's site and
> seen his 601XL w/Corvair? And hopefully you have found the Corvair list:
>
> http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html
>
> One part of the equation that is changing is the availability of FWF
> parts. Jabiru (also through Zenith) offers a nice, complete FWF kit. But
> WW is getting close to offering everything too. He has offered the nose
> bowl and engine mount for some time now and is beginning to ship intake
> and exhaust manifolds. The intake manifolds as made for the Ellison or
> the MA-3SPA that WW prefers. The sheet metal from the cowling back to
> the firewall is pretty simple: no compound curves.
>
> Ignoring cost it really comes down to what you feel comfortable with. If
> auto-conversions make you feel uncomfortable then go with the Jabiru
> 3300. That gets you a proven aircraft engine with dual ignition. But I
> (and others) trust and respect WW's efforts to produce hard data showing
> the qualities of the Corvair *if* you follow his guidelines. I helped
> (stayed out of the way) rebuild my Corvair at WW's hanger at the end of
> April and have bought just about everything he makes for the XL/Corvair
> combo (including some parts that don't exist yet). All I've got to do
> now is put it all together and learn to fly it. I could afford the
> Jabiru (if I sold my wife into slavery) but the Corvair conversion is
> just more interesting and in the spirit of experimental aviation.
>
> You should also ask your question on the Corvair list - you may reach a
> different set of people.
>
> -- Craig
>
> Dave Ruddiman wrote:
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
>> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>>
>> Who amongst the group has installed a Corvair in their plane? How do you
>> like it. Pros and cons? I really like the Jabiru, but the Corvair is way
>> cheaper.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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