Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:03 AM - Re;Prop to cowling distance? (roy vickski)
2. 05:18 AM - Engine mount (Richard Cottingham)
3. 06:38 AM - Re: Engine mount (Larry)
4. 06:39 AM - Re: 601 Canopy lessons learned? (Larry McFarland)
5. 06:49 AM - Re: Prop to cowling distance? (Larry McFarland)
6. 06:58 AM - Re: Engine mount (Larry McFarland)
7. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: 601 Canopy lessons learned? (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
8. 08:10 AM - 701 Fuselage Gussets (Robert Schoenberger)
9. 08:33 AM - Re: Corvair engine (Samm Munn)
10. 08:40 AM - Re: New to the group. (Monty Graves)
11. 08:54 AM - Re: 601 Canopy lessons learned? (Carlos Sa)
12. 10:02 AM - Re:New to the group (Dave P)
13. 10:18 AM - ELT mounting location (MElrod3732@aol.com)
14. 10:21 AM - Re: Priming (Matt & Jo)
15. 10:32 AM - Re: 701 Fuselage Gussets (RURUNY@aol.com)
16. 11:44 AM - Re: ELT mounting location (Elwood140@aol.com)
17. 12:10 PM - 701 Rear Torque Tube Bearing (Rick R)
18. 12:16 PM - Re: 110% 701? (701flyer)
19. 12:20 PM - Re: ELT mounting location (NYTerminat@AOL.COM)
20. 12:49 PM - This is Priceless (Zodie Rocket)
21. 01:07 PM - Re: New to the group. (Cleone Markwell)
22. 01:36 PM - Quickbuild 601XL (Robert Berube)
23. 01:43 PM - Re: 701 Rear Torque Tube Bearing (RURUNY@aol.com)
24. 01:53 PM - Re: Re: 110% 701? (Zodie Rocket)
25. 01:54 PM - Re: This is Priceless (Rick R)
26. 02:52 PM - Re: New to the group. (Ron Culver)
27. 02:52 PM - Re: New to the group. (Ron Culver)
28. 03:04 PM - Re: New to the group. (Ron Culver)
29. 03:05 PM - Clecos and Drill Bits (Dave VanLanen)
30. 03:07 PM - Re: New to the group. (Ron Culver)
31. 03:14 PM - Re: New to the group. (Ron Culver)
32. 03:31 PM - Re: Clecos and Drill Bits (jnbolding1)
33. 03:48 PM - Re: This is Priceless (kevinbonds)
34. 04:03 PM - Re: New to the group. (Ron Culver)
35. 04:44 PM - Re: Clecos and Drill Bits (Paul Mulwitz)
36. 06:48 PM - 25 cent clecos (Jim and Lucy)
37. 07:04 PM - Hard starting warm 3300 (ron dewees)
38. 07:15 PM - Re: ELT mounting location (Winston Ellis)
39. 07:18 PM - Re: Clecos and Drill Bits (Robert Schoenberger)
40. 07:38 PM - Re: ELT mounting location (Larry)
41. 07:38 PM - Re: Re: 110% 701? 0.30 FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS From: starts with nums (Larry)
42. 08:01 PM - Re: 25 cent clecos (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
43. 08:08 PM - Re: Clecos and Drill Bits (Zodie Rocket)
44. 08:09 PM - Re: Clecos and Drill Bits (Paul Mulwitz)
45. 08:23 PM - Answer about clecos (Zodie Rocket)
46. 08:34 PM - My impressions of Jab 3300 (Stanley Challgren)
47. 08:38 PM - Re: 701 Fuselage Gussets (Gary Gower)
48. 08:56 PM - Last Call For Builders dinner RSVP (Zodie Rocket)
49. 09:05 PM - Re: My impressions of Jab 3300 (Eddie Seve)
50. 09:22 PM - Re: Clecos and Drill Bits (Paul Mulwitz)
51. 09:49 PM - 701 Plans (Dave & Darlene)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Prop to cowling distance? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: roy vickski <rvickski@yahoo.com>
Is it possible to not try and fit anything in the
space between the prop and gearbox? Maybe consider a
larger prop spinner that offsets slightly behind the
engine flange then build the nosebowl to that?
Roy S
701
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Cottingham" <mrd@wn.com.au>
Help please. Any advise in making engine mount for a Subaru motor using Stratus
mounts in a 701 would and be appreciated.Especially any offset from centre line
i.e.: 3 degree left for Rotax.Thanks in advance
Special thanks to Joe Motis,Scott Laughlin,Larry Martin,Larry McFarland,John Larson
for their help offline.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mount |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
While adjustment for P-Factor is helpful, it is not critical. It just boils
down to how much right rudder you will need to use on take off and it will
be different every time anyway depending on wind factors. I would use the
same as Rotax, assuming you will be spinning the same size prop and the same
speed. Otherwise, just SWAG it within limits of 1 to 4 degrees. In case
you don't know, that's a Scientific Wild Ass Guess.
Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Cottingham" <mrd@wn.com.au>
Subject: Zenith-List: Engine mount
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Cottingham" <mrd@wn.com.au>
>
> Help please. Any advise in making engine mount for a Subaru motor using
Stratus mounts in a 701 would and be appreciated.Especially any offset from
centre line i.e.: 3 degree left for Rotax.Thanks in advance
> Special thanks to Joe Motis,Scott Laughlin,Larry Martin,Larry
McFarland,John Larson for their help offline.
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Canopy lessons learned? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Mark,
I've a canopy page on the website that might be useful and it shows the
progression of
construction to completion. The journal also describes the processes I
used. This is a scratch
builder's site, but the rules don't change for the canopy. See the link
below to a method for
bending bows.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/frontbowbend.gif
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
do not archive
Mark Stauffer wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
>
>To the 601 builders,
>
>I've just started on the canopy and would to hear of any tricks, procedures,
>voodoo magic or whatever that you used to get this thing on the right way
>the first time. I've got the front hinge finished and am about to work on
>the top skin tomorrow. I've read through the directions and now I would like
>to learn from those that have "been there and done that".
>
>Did you have to sit in the fuselage a lot? That's a big concern of mine
>because I'll have to move the fuselage to another location.
>
>Also, I've been considering putting in nut plates for the top skin. For
>those of you that riveted the top skin on have you regretted it? If you were
>to do it over would you install nut plates this time? Just curious.
>
>When spacing the nut plates on the firewall flange I found that 50mm spacing
>seems to work much better (I haven't drilled the holes yet). On the panel
>side just about all you can do is place them between the flutes. For those
>that did use nut plates any "gotchas" to watch for?
>
>As always thank you very much for any help/advice.
>
>Mark Stauffer
>Odenton, MD
>601XL SN 4999
>N624MK reserved
>Sweating about the canopy!
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Prop to cowling distance? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Scotty,
Cowling to prop clearance is a good question and I was surprised to see
only half an inch between my forward cowling
lip and the trail edge of the prop. The forward retaining pin reduced
that to 3/8", but the clearance is never less than
that so it's o.k. There's a lot more clearance inside the cowl than
that. Recommend you speak with the engine
manufacturers rep about adding a prop spacer. They should have history
on what's tolerable.
Larry McFarland
do not archive
scotty scotty wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: scotty scotty <scotty245@yahoo.com>
>
>Just finished molding my 701 nosepiece, front part of cowling, the rest is aluminum.
My situation is that i only have maybe 1 to 1.5 inches(as nosepiece curves
out and back) between the trailing edge of Powerfin prop and gear box of
the Hirth F30 for cowling to fit in, assuming i crank alot of pitch,i'd hate
to build it too tight and not be able to use all the pitch for the engine. The
otherside is that if too close to the engine will viberate and rub against the
kevlar nosepiece. Is there a certain minimun distance from cowling to prop?
I read something about it could be louder if its too close, but didn't find
anything affecting performance? Another thing is that the engine is aircooled,
so need to keep good airflow going in duct holes on nosepiece. Also i've thought
on a prop spacer, but wasn't sure how thick or if it could shorten the
gearbox life? Didn't see any in Aircraftspruce book where are they avail? Thanks
for all the advice.
>
>Scotty Armstead
>701 -90%
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mount |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Richard,
I've a friend that made an engine mount for a Subaru powered 701 and
perhaps you'd like
to contact him about drawings, details etc. His is flying now and the
mount is, as you say, unique.
carlritter@frontiernet.net
Larry McFarland
do not archive
Richard Cottingham wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Cottingham" <mrd@wn.com.au>
>
>Help please. Any advise in making engine mount for a Subaru motor using Stratus
mounts in a 701 would and be appreciated.Especially any offset from centre line
i.e.: 3 degree left for Rotax.Thanks in advance
>Special thanks to Joe Motis,Scott Laughlin,Larry Martin,Larry McFarland,John Larson
for their help offline.
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RE: 601 Canopy lessons learned? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Mark, I have to say I spent as much total time working on my canopy as I did
to build a wing. Until it is finished and mounted it is a bit fragile. Two
things I will offer.
One, I had the greatest success trimming the plex glass with a Drimmel tool
and those sanding barrels that you can replace on the rubber barrel. I don't
know what there real names are, but your standard Drimmel kit comes with a bunch
on them. I tried a bunch of ways to trim and that seemed the most controlled
and effective.
Second is a modification to the plans. The two cables that activate the
latches each have an adjustment that screws in and out so that the latches can
be
synchronized. You want the latches to open at the very same time. The plans do
not show ( unless Nick made a change after my recommendation) any way to get
at those adjusters after the bottom sides are riveted together. What I did was
make two oval holes inside large enough that I could get a 3/8 inch wrench
inside at the adjusters and made covers that I attached over the holes with
little screws. Was not sure if I needed them, but on final assembly they were a
bunch of help. Without those access holes you cannot adjust without disassembly
of the whole canopy.
Oh, a third thing, keep the protective cover on as long as you can and avoid
direct sun on the thing while the protective cover is still on. I know a guy
who has to buy another canopy for that same reason.
Best regards from Bill of Georgia with 5.5 hours on 601XL-3300 with DC (flew
yesterday)
Message 8
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| Subject: | 701 Fuselage Gussets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
List . . . thanks for the quick responses on my missing .025" "extra material"
for the fuselage gussets. As suggested, I went back to my crate and looked under
the two cardboard sheets on the bottom of the crate. I found an unbelievable
amount of extra aluminum in all sorts of sizes and thickness. When I inventoried
the crate in the Spring I just looked for the items on the packing list,
all of which were on top of these cardboard sheets and all of which were there.
I had just assumed that the cardboard in the bottom was for protection of
the furnished, labeled parts. My hat is off to ZAC for going the extra mile.
Thx. again for your help. Robert Schoenberger 701 55%
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair engine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Samm Munn" <heliav8r@swbell.net>
The upcoming issue of Kitplanes will have an article on the Corvair engine.
Perhaps it will answer many of your questions.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair engine
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>
> Who amongst the group has installed a Corvair in their plane? How do you
> like it. Pros and cons? I really like the Jabiru, but the Corvair is way
> cheaper.
>
> Dave
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
For Ron and others,
I got hung up on the 701 wing spars for almost 2 years, because I thought
I would need to buy or borrow a rivet gun and learn to use the gun. And I
don't want someone else to get hung up like that. Because ANYONE can
purchase or make the bench mounted rivet tool on Jon's web site, and build
a nice set of 601 or 701 spars, with very little chance for making a
mistake.. Theres nothing wrong with learning to use a rivet gun as Jon C.
suggests, I just don't want anyone to get hung up like I did and think
they HAVE to.
I like the Yardstore for aircraft tools.
http://www.yardstore.com/
They also have some good prices on alum sheet on the other side of the store.
My most recent catalog shows a factory bench mounted dimple rivet tool
for $140 and it includes the extra depth extension needed to make the 701
spars, I was talking about in my previous post. If you don't want to build
one.
P.N. 13707
http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=1310
A person can probably borrow one of these from an RV builder, at an EAA
meeting. They use them to dimple the skins. And even if you buy one, a
person at least can sell it to someone else for at least half when your done.
The rivet squeeze sets for it are
P.N. 10110
If you want to build the tool. the individual dies are $3.50 each
P.N. 10112
P.N. 10113
And while you are ordering things.
The dog leg deburr tool. Is one of the best tools anyone can purchase and
will save tens of hours in time over the Zenith method of deburring
holes. Another RV building tip.
P.N. 14031
http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=118
Then don't forget the rivet spacer fan.
P.N. 13061
or
automatic center punch
P.N.14089
Drill stops,
numbered jobber bits for drilling holes.
clecos
locking clamps.
vixen files etc etc etc......
Monty Graves
At 08:47 PM 7/16/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>>
>>This bench mounted rivet tool costs about $25-35 to build, is simple to
>>use, makes a REALLY REALLY good rivet set, And I would disagree with
>>Jon, about buying a rivet gun unless you think there is going to be a RV
>>airplane in your future.
>
>Monty,
>
>I have great respect for those builders (like you) that really do things
>from scratch... I know I just am not at that level (mentally? skill?) I
>dunno but I need to spend more time with people like you and others on
>this list that have those abilities. The rivet gun is for me a crutch for
>my impatience or fear of doing it the manual way... I bet your workmanship
>overall shows your skills in other areas too!
>
>Hope to meet you in person someday!
>
>Thanks for your contributions on the List and website
>
>Jon
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Canopy lessons learned? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Mark, I'm not there yet (geez, I seem to be nowhere!), but I have a bit of information,
in case
you want to follow a different road.
Some RV builders are using glue on the canopy/frame instead of rivets.
Chris Boultinghouse is building a Sonex, and has a used this method. His web site
has much detail
on it:
home page - http://sonex260.wheelsup.org/
canopy page - http://sonex260.wheelsup.org/images/canopy/index.htm
early thoughts on the canopy building - http://sonex260.wheelsup.org/canopy.htm
Dontcha hate having so many options? ;o)
Cheers
Carlos
(CH601-HD, plans)
Montreal, Canada
> Mark Stauffer <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com> wrote:
> I've just started on the canopy and would to hear of any tricks, procedures,
> voodoo magic or whatever that you used to get this thing on the right way
> the first time.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: New to the group |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave P" <aristotelian1@msn.com>
Dave,
Welcome to the list.
I'm in Eugene building an XL, tail finished and just started the wings. This is
my first project so I'm hardly
an experienced builder but I've got great tech and flight advisors and my skills
are improving daily. Planning a
WW corvair and a simple vfr panel (well, simple is a relative term, did you see
the 7" Dynon at arlington?)
Contact me off list if you like, and we can get together - I can't wait to hear
the garage story.
Dave Petersen
601xl, tail done, working on left flap, or second right flap....better check those
drawings again.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net<mailto:pacificpainting@comcast.net>>
Hello All,
I just joined this group yesterday. I haven't read through to much of the previous
information yet. I have previously built the tail group and wings for a 601HDS
which were destroyed in the garage. That's another story. Built the rudder
for a 701, and have just ordered the tail kit for the 601 XL. I did get a chance
for a quick demo flight in the red and white 601XL at the Arlington fly-in.
That's what ultimately pushed me over the edge again to start another project.
This one will get finished and fly. Haven't quite figured out how to break
it to the wife yet that I am starting another project. I guess it will just be
a big surprise. I live in Salem, Oregon. Is anyone around that is fairly close
to me building? I hope this is the correct way to post a message.
Dave
Message 13
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| Subject: | ELT mounting location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MElrod3732@aol.com
Hi fellow builders: I am having difficulty finding a suitable location to
mount an Ameri-King ELT on my 701 that meets all the requirements in the
installation instructions.
I am seeking recommendations from other builders as to where they installed
their ELTs and how that location worked out.
Thanks in advance,
Mike Elrod
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
From: "Allen Ricks" <allenricks@verizon.net>
>
> By the way, Im sure this can has been opened many times, but who among you
> has been happy with the form of corrosion protection they have selected
> for
> the interior of their plane?
Allen, I have tried a couple of different methods. Acid etch, alodine and
shaker can. This did a good job but was a lot of work. I ended up using
Variprime by Dupont. This is a selfetching primer that is available at auto
paint stores. I use it with a HVLP touch up gun I got off of Ebay. Been
real happy with this. Check out my web site
http://www.zodiacxl.com/1%20Priming.html
Good luck and happy building.
Cheers
Matt Archer
www.zodiacxl.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Fuselage Gussets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com
Robert,
I also was amazed by the amount of scrap aluminum Zenith provided with my
kit also. It has allowed me to make 12 maintenance access panels, doublers and
parts that were screwed up. It was in all thicknesses and in very large
sheets. It has been a big help and my hat also goes off to Zenith. I'm glad they
still provide this with their kit.
Brian
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: ELT mounting location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com
In a message dated 7/17/2005 12:20:06 PM Central Daylight Time,
MElrod3732@aol.com writes:
Hi fellow builders: I am having difficulty finding a suitable location to
mount an Ameri-King ELT on my 701 that meets all the requirements in the
Mike, I put my Ameri-King ELT in the back corner of the luggage compartment
on the passenger side. This required some extra reinforcement of the luggage
compartment floor. Just remember that the ELT must be aligned with the fore
and aft centerline of the fuselage. The antenna is mounted about directly
above the ELT. A little extra reinforcement is required for the antenna
mount. I think I have a picture (or will take one) of the install. Contact me
off-list if you would like to have a picture.
Larry Wood
(N701LW getting closer)
Message 17
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| Subject: | 701 Rear Torque Tube Bearing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick R <n701rr@yahoo.com>
Good day fellow plane building chums....let's talk about the part 7F6-2 rear Torque
Tube Bearing. This is a simple enough piece to install but:
I got two separate plates. Is that considered one bearing? The ZAC parts search
depicts one, the photo guide and plans call for one but yet I got two taped
together and the label sez qty.2???????????????
Any insight before I contact ZAC?
Low & Slow...
Rick
Orlando, FL. USA
http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html
---------------------------------
Message 18
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0.30 FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS From: starts with nums
--> Zenith-List message posted by: 701flyer <701flyer@earthlink.net>
Greetings -
I'm planning my 701 build (from plans arriving next week) and am wondering if anyone
has attempted to "Supersize" the 701?
I know that Zenith is planning the CH750 for down the road, but it will not be
available to kit or scratch builders. It seems like a great move for guys my size
(6'-2").
I was at Arlington last weekend and sat in the 701 at the Zenith paddock and could
make it work (had to remove all cushions to get in), but I was thinking that
a little judicious strengthening of spars, struts and a change to .020" skins
could make a 110% version quite doable and still stay within the LSA limits.
Using the 601 firewall mentioned for the 750 would allow the use of existing
FWF set-ups and keep the powerplant options open.
Any thoughts on FAA requirements for an altered design or other suggestions?
Thanks,
Troy
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: ELT mounting location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
Mike
I scratched my head on that one too. I fabricated a piece of .032 mounting
bracket and riveted it to my bottom skin in front of my rear access hatch. Then
mounted the factory mounting bracket to that.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX 701, 912S
Message 20
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| Subject: | This is Priceless |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Buying your wife jewelry so you can build a plane $1500.00
Ordering the Fuselage kit for a CH701 $3,190.00
Being able to make Vroom Vroom noises in above fuselage pieces PRICELESS
!!!
www.ch701.com You have GOT to see THIS !!!
Someone need a chuckle!!!! We've all either done it or are going to do
it, this chap just did it the best!!!! Hint R.R.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Cleone Markwell <cleone@rr1.net>
Jon, Want to sell a Rotax 912Ul? Ha. Go to
http://flycorvair.com/crankissues.html Corvair engines are breaking
crankshafts. Cleone How are you getting along?
><
At 05:47 PM 7/16/05, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
>Ron,
>
>Just one opinion... get yourself a rivet gun and bucking bar..... you may
>find that the rivet setter *may* not work on the 701 fuse sides due to the
>hard to get to areas involved wth those pieces... take a look at the plans
>and you decide. Riveting with a rivet gun didnt take too long to learn!
>Yes, you would need an air compressor, too.
>
>Good luck and welcome to the List.
>
>Jon
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the group.
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
> >
> > Newby here as well.I have built the 701 Rudder from the kit but wish to
> > build the rest from scratch. Doing the rudder with pop rivets was almost
> > too
> > easy. Now I have the aluminum and have built the forms for the wing ribs
> > etc
> > but need to do the spar web. That calls for hard rivets which I have never
> > done. I am building the"Rivet Setter For Spars" rig that is posted on the
> > builders site but have no idea how to set it up for the riveting. I don't
> > even know the terminology used for the parts that are on either side of
> > the rivet when they are set. If I knew those terms I could look up the
> > correct parts. The rivets are all AN 470-AD-4-4, -4-5,-5-7 andAN-470-
> > A-3-3.
> > I have the rivets which appear to be anodized aluminum ( I got them
> > directly
> > from Zenith so I assume they are correct). I need some advise on the names
> > of the parts to complete the Rivet Setter and the procedure to set the
> > rivets correctly. Thanks in advance.. Ron Culver East Greenbush,NY
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Zenith-List: New to the group.
> >
> >
> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
> >> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
> >>
> >> Hello All,
> >>
> >> I just joined this group yesterday. I haven't read through to much of the
> >> previous information yet. I have previously built the tail group and
> >> wings
> >> for a 601HDS which were destroyed in the garage. That's another story.
> >> Built the rudder for a 701, and have just ordered the tail kit for the
> >> 601
> >> XL. I did get a chance for a quick demo flight in the red and white 601XL
> >> at the Arlington fly-in. That's what ultimately pushed me over the edge
> >> again to start another project. This one will get finished and fly.
> >> Haven't quite figured out how to break it to the wife yet that I am
> >> starting another project. I guess it will just be a big surprise. I live
> >> in Salem, Oregon. Is anyone around that is fairly close to me building? I
> >> hope this is the correct way to post a message.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Quickbuild 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" <bberube@tampabay.rr.com>
Dear Zenith Enthusiasts,
We are pleased to announce out association with Zenith Aircraft as a
Distributor for the 601 XL Quickbuild. Flight Crafters has primarily been a
Builder Assistance Company for the past 6 years involved with various types
of aircraft. Entering into kit sales with Zenith is a welcome addition to
our company.
Mark Townsend has elaborated on the Quickbuild in a previous note so no need
to repeat but having had the opportunity to view and spend a few hours
pouring over the new kit, we can attest to the quality and how quickly it
will go together.
Check our website at www.flightcrafters.com <http://www.flightcrafters.com/>
for introductory assembly workshop.
We look forward to meeting many of you at the Zenith Display at Oshkosh.
Bob Berube
Russell Lepre
Flight Crafters, LLC.
39244 South Avenue
Zephyrhills, FL. 33542
Phone 813 779-1156
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: 701 Rear Torque Tube Bearing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com
Rick,
I got one and and only used one.
Brian
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Troy, Chris has always given a nod to builders who wish to get creative.
My suggestion is to make all changes on paper and then FAX EVERYTHING to
Chris. With that he will do the math and look over your plans, and give
advice on changes or point out how many ways you may kill yourself. I'm
not a designer, and never plan to be, but I do get approval for all
design changes I have done over the years.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
--> Zenith-List message posted by: 701flyer <701flyer@earthlink.net>
Greetings -
I was thinking that a little judicious strengthening of spars, struts
and a change to .020" skins could make a 110% version quite doable and
still stay within the LSA limits. Using the 601 firewall mentioned for
the 750 would allow the use of existing FWF set-ups and keep the
powerplant options open.
Any thoughts on FAA requirements for an altered design or other
suggestions?
Thanks,
Troy
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: This is Priceless |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick R <n701rr@yahoo.com>
Zodie,
You had to bring that jewelry thing up didn't ya ! ;>)
Do not archive
Zodie Rocket <zodierocket@hsfx.ca> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket"
Buying your wife jewelry so you can build a plane $1500.00
Ordering the Fuselage kit for a CH701 $3,190.00
Being able to make Vroom Vroom noises in above fuselage pieces PRICELESS
!!!
www.ch701.com You have GOT to see THIS !!!
Someone need a chuckle!!!! We've all either done it or are going to do
it, this chap just did it the best!!!! Hint R.R.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
Rick
Orlando, FL. USA
http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
Thanks Jon I intend to get a compressor,gun and bucking bar for those areas
but the spar should lend itself to the setter which I am making.I do still
need what they call those pieces which contact the solid rivets..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the group.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
> Ron,
>
> Just one opinion... get yourself a rivet gun and bucking bar..... you may
> find that the rivet setter *may* not work on the 701 fuse sides due to the
> hard to get to areas involved wth those pieces... take a look at the
> plans
> and you decide. Riveting with a rivet gun didnt take too long to learn!
> Yes, you would need an air compressor, too.
>
> Good luck and welcome to the List.
>
> Jon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the group.
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
>>
>> Newby here as well.I have built the 701 Rudder from the kit but wish to
>> build the rest from scratch. Doing the rudder with pop rivets was almost
>> too
>> easy. Now I have the aluminum and have built the forms for the wing ribs
>> etc
>> but need to do the spar web. That calls for hard rivets which I have
>> never
>> done. I am building the"Rivet Setter For Spars" rig that is posted on the
>> builders site but have no idea how to set it up for the riveting. I don't
>> even know the terminology used for the parts that are on either side of
>> the rivet when they are set. If I knew those terms I could look up the
>> correct parts. The rivets are all AN 470-AD-4-4, -4-5,-5-7 andAN-470-
>> A-3-3.
>> I have the rivets which appear to be anodized aluminum ( I got them
>> directly
>> from Zenith so I assume they are correct). I need some advise on the
>> names
>> of the parts to complete the Rivet Setter and the procedure to set the
>> rivets correctly. Thanks in advance.. Ron Culver East Greenbush,NY
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Zenith-List: New to the group.
>>
>>
>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
>>> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> I just joined this group yesterday. I haven't read through to much of
>>> the
>>> previous information yet. I have previously built the tail group and
>>> wings
>>> for a 601HDS which were destroyed in the garage. That's another story.
>>> Built the rudder for a 701, and have just ordered the tail kit for the
>>> 601
>>> XL. I did get a chance for a quick demo flight in the red and white
>>> 601XL
>>> at the Arlington fly-in. That's what ultimately pushed me over the edge
>>> again to start another project. This one will get finished and fly.
>>> Haven't quite figured out how to break it to the wife yet that I am
>>> starting another project. I guess it will just be a big surprise. I live
>>> in Salem, Oregon. Is anyone around that is fairly close to me building?
>>> I
>>> hope this is the correct way to post a message.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
Much appreciated nothing better than experience.. 8
)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the group.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
> Ron,
>
> I took another look at my fuse sides, and there is a good chance that the
> manual riveter WOULD work,, I was concerned about the depth of the throat
> reaching the most inner rivets... so I stand corrected... maybe! But I
> would still prefer a gun... thats just me. Just didnt want to be
> misleading.
> Jon
>
>>Just one opinion... get yourself a rivet gun and bucking bar..... you may
> find that the rivet setter *may* not work on the 701 fuse sides due to the
> hard to get to areas involved wth those pieces... take a look at the
> plans
> and you decide. Riveting with a rivet gun didnt take too long to learn!
> Yes, you would need an air compressor, too.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the group.
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
>>
>> Newby here as well.I have built the 701 Rudder from the kit but wish to
>> build the rest from scratch. Doing the rudder with pop rivets was almost
>> too
>> easy. Now I have the aluminum and have built the forms for the wing ribs
>> etc
>> but need to do the spar web. That calls for hard rivets which I have
>> never
>>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
Yes it is the first one on the 701 page. Great info Monty just what I was
looking for.. my offline e-mail is rculver@nycap.rr.com and a couple of pics
would be much appreciated.
>Since the 701 has 3/4 inch angles turned <
> in both directions on the spar. The reach of the rivet squezze set needs
> <
> to be built up so that the 3/4 inch angles clears the base<
I am not sure what you mean here perhaps a pic would help here as well..
happy to hear that your project is going well.. I have made all of the rivet
setter except for drilling the hole at the front and mounting the strike
plate ands agree it was pretty easy..so far.. as far as an RV at 70 I don't
think another plane is in my future.I just hope I can still walk to the
plane when I get this one done....heheh
----- Original Message -----
From: "Monty Graves" <mgraves@usmo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the group.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> Welcome to the group.
>
> I am guessing you, mean one of the two Rivet Setters on the www.ch701.com
> web site
>
> http://www.ch701.com/Tools/homemade_tools.htm
>
> I just finished making my 701 spars with the first one on the above
> page.. And it worked VERY WELL. However the 701 spar is a little
> different than the 601 spar the rivet setter was made for. Its an easy
> fix if known about in advance. Since the 701 has 3/4 inch angles turned
> in both directions on the spar. The reach of the rivet squezze set needs
> to be built up so that the 3/4 inch angles clears the base.
>
> I will send you a picture of mine off list if you want. Other wise you
> can
> look at it on the 701builders Yahoo web site.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/701builders/files/
>
> The parts I think you referr too. Are hand rivet squezze sets. These
> are little cup dies, that slip in a hand rivet squezzer, and cost about
> $3.00 each from a aircraft tool supply house. You will need one for the
> 1/8 inch rivets, and one for the 5/32 rivets. and if you use the other
> rivet setter that has a lever built in you will need the smooth flush face
> die as well. Another $3.00 Other wise, you need a 1/2 inch long bolt
> or rod. I used a Grade 8 bolt 7 inches long with one end cut off and the
> end sanded and polished smooth. You don't want to transferr any ridges
> to
> the rivet. And this bolt is struck with a 3 pound sledge hammer. A good
> set usually takes 2 blows, sometimes 3.
>
> Jon Crooke, brings up a good point. The cabin sides also are put
> together with solid rivets. and the depth of the rivet tool may not allow
> a
> few of the these rivets to be set since the bent cabin piece sheet part
> number 7-F-9-1 bend is 146mm tall. About 5 3/4 inches. Which is taller
> than the 4 inch throat of the rivet setter... I think that all the rivets
> can be reached by turning the piece and coming in from a different
> direction...... BUT I just cut my pieces out this last friday, and I
> haven't tried yet. I will let you know in the next week or so.
>
> Although I think if worse comes to worse that at most 4 or 5 rivets would
> have to be set by a punch and hammer with a steel plate backing as shown
> in
> the Zenith Assembly manual. Or a person could just take the cup out of
> the
> setter, drill a hole in a piece of scrap steel, and take the bolt out and
> do these few rivets that way.
>
> This bench mounted rivet tool costs about $25-35 to build, is simple to
> use, makes a REALLY REALLY good rivet set, And I would disagree with
> Jon, about buying a rivet gun unless you think there is going to be a RV
> airplane in your future.
>
> It took about 40-50 man hours to make the rivet tool and make my 701
> spars.
>
> Monty Graves
>
>
> At 05:34 PM 7/16/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
>>
>>Newby here as well.I have built the 701 Rudder from the kit but wish to
>>build the rest from scratch. Doing the rudder with pop rivets was almost
>>too
>>easy. Now I have the aluminum and have built the forms for the wing ribs
>>etc
>>but need to do the spar web. That calls for hard rivets which I have never
>>done. I am building the"Rivet Setter For Spars" rig that is posted on the
>>builders site but have no idea how to set it up for the riveting. I don't
>>even know the terminology used for the parts that are on either side of
>>the rivet when they are set. If I knew those terms I could look up the
>>correct parts. The rivets are all AN 470-AD-4-4, -4-5,-5-7 andAN-470-
>>A-3-3.
>>I have the rivets which appear to be anodized aluminum ( I got them
>>directly
>>from Zenith so I assume they are correct). I need some advise on the names
>>of the parts to complete the Rivet Setter and the procedure to set the
>>rivets correctly. Thanks in advance.. Ron Culver East Greenbush,NY
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Zenith-List: New to the group.
>>
>>
>> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
>> > <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>> >
>> > Hello All,
>> >
>> > I just joined this group yesterday. I haven't read through to much of
>> > the
>> > previous information yet. I have previously built the tail group and
>> > wings
>> > for a 601HDS which were destroyed in the garage. That's another story.
>> > Built the rudder for a 701, and have just ordered the tail kit for the
>> > 601
>> > XL. I did get a chance for a quick demo flight in the red and white
>> > 601XL
>> > at the Arlington fly-in. That's what ultimately pushed me over the edge
>> > again to start another project. This one will get finished and fly.
>> > Haven't quite figured out how to break it to the wife yet that I am
>> > starting another project. I guess it will just be a big surprise. I
>> > live
>> > in Salem, Oregon. Is anyone around that is fairly close to me building?
>> > I
>> > hope this is the correct way to post a message.
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Clecos and Drill Bits |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
I'm going to Airventure this year, and plan to look for some clecos and
quality drill bits while I am there. Has anyone found good vendor(s) at
Oshkosh for these items? ZAC's web site has a suggested number of clecos
and drill bits. Are their numbers accurate, or should I be getting more
than they are suggesting? ZAC doesn't have a suggestion for the number of
#40 bits for the 3/32" clecos - how many of these bits do I need? Is there
a particular type of drill bit that works best?
Thanks for your help,
Dave Van Lanen
Madison WI
601XL - kit ordered, attending Aug. workshop, converting garage to
year-round workshop
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
I do belong to the local EAA Chapter and will ask some better questions at
our next meeting which is tomorrow night.. .. I guess I am a bit intimidated
and am looking for as many sources as possible.. TX
----- Original Message -----
From: <JERICKSON03E@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the group.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 7/16/2005 8:09:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
> p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net writes:
> That calls for hard rivets which I have never
>>done.
>
> Now would be a good time to join an EAA Chapter, and to get connected with
> EAA Technical Advisors.
>
> Most chapter members will assist with skills, and will share tools once
> you
> are a chapter member, and confess inexperience.
>
> The Tech Advisors will help document inspections as you progress. Great
> support.
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
Thanks Monty I have the rivet spacer,lots of clamps,deburring tool etc but
the part nums and info about yardstore and the dies is great to have .. I
have put the base of the rivet setter etc together with bolts so that I can
make it taller as necessary .. That thought occurred to me when I saw one
that was welded and I thought hmm.. what to do if I needed more height?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Monty Graves" <mgraves@usmo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the group.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>
> For Ron and others,
>
> I got hung up on the 701 wing spars for almost 2 years, because I thought
> I would need to buy or borrow a rivet gun and learn to use the gun. And
> I
> don't want someone else to get hung up like that. Because ANYONE can
> purchase or make the bench mounted rivet tool on Jon's web site, and build
> a nice set of 601 or 701 spars, with very little chance for making a
> mistake.. Theres nothing wrong with learning to use a rivet gun as Jon
> C.
> suggests, I just don't want anyone to get hung up like I did and think
> they HAVE to.
>
>
> I like the Yardstore for aircraft tools.
>
> http://www.yardstore.com/
>
> They also have some good prices on alum sheet on the other side of the
> store.
>
> My most recent catalog shows a factory bench mounted dimple rivet tool
> for $140 and it includes the extra depth extension needed to make the 701
> spars, I was talking about in my previous post. If you don't want to
> build
> one.
>
> P.N. 13707
>
> http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=1310
>
>
> A person can probably borrow one of these from an RV builder, at an EAA
> meeting. They use them to dimple the skins. And even if you buy one, a
> person at least can sell it to someone else for at least half when your
> done.
>
> The rivet squeeze sets for it are
>
> P.N. 10110
>
> If you want to build the tool. the individual dies are $3.50 each
>
> P.N. 10112
> P.N. 10113
>
> And while you are ordering things.
>
> The dog leg deburr tool. Is one of the best tools anyone can purchase
> and
> will save tens of hours in time over the Zenith method of deburring
> holes. Another RV building tip.
>
> P.N. 14031
>
> http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=118
>
> Then don't forget the rivet spacer fan.
>
> P.N. 13061
>
> or
>
> automatic center punch
>
> P.N.14089
>
> Drill stops,
> numbered jobber bits for drilling holes.
> clecos
> locking clamps.
> vixen files etc etc etc......
>
> Monty Graves
>
>
> At 08:47 PM 7/16/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>>----- Original Message -----
>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>>>
>>>This bench mounted rivet tool costs about $25-35 to build, is simple to
>>>use, makes a REALLY REALLY good rivet set, And I would disagree with
>>>Jon, about buying a rivet gun unless you think there is going to be a RV
>>>airplane in your future.
>>
>>Monty,
>>
>>I have great respect for those builders (like you) that really do things
>>from scratch... I know I just am not at that level (mentally? skill?) I
>>dunno but I need to spend more time with people like you and others on
>>this list that have those abilities. The rivet gun is for me a crutch for
>>my impatience or fear of doing it the manual way... I bet your workmanship
>>overall shows your skills in other areas too!
>>
>>Hope to meet you in person someday!
>>
>>Thanks for your contributions on the List and website
>>
>>Jon
>>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Clecos and Drill Bits |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
Dave there is no such thing as having too many clecos. I had
about 300 left over from an RV project and bought another hundred
and will get another hundred at Osh. I don't break many bits but
some do. Get a couple dozen and see how it goes. There were two or
3 vendors of GOOD industrial bits there last year, also go see
AIRPARTS and get a few long bits, you will use them if you have
them. LOW&SLOW John
>I'm going to Airventure this year, and plan to look for some
clecos and
>quality drill bits while I am there. Has anyone found good vendor
(s) at
>Oshkosh for these items? ZAC's web site has a suggested number
of clecos
>and drill bits. Are their numbers accurate, or should I be
getting more
>than they are suggesting? ZAC doesn't have a suggestion for the
number of
>#40 bits for the 3/32" clecos - how many of these bits do I
need? Is there
>a particular type of drill bit that works best?
>
>Thanks for your help,
>Dave Van Lanen
Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | This is Priceless |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Yep. Done it. (I just cut out the bottom fuse skin a couple of days
ago--Could not resist).
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zodie Rocket
Subject: Zenith-List: This is Priceless
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Buying your wife jewelry so you can build a plane $1500.00
Ordering the Fuselage kit for a CH701 $3,190.00
Being able to make Vroom Vroom noises in above fuselage pieces PRICELESS
!!!
www.ch701.com You have GOT to see THIS !!!
Someone need a chuckle!!!! We've all either done it or are going to do
it, this chap just did it the best!!!! Hint R.R.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: New to the group. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
Guys are these the sets( or types) I need to finish my sparweb
http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?Action=ViewCategory&Category=98
... do I then mount the proper size "squeeze" face up on the lower plate
and the flat bolt like driver through the hole or is it not that simple?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Monty Graves" <mgraves@usmo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the group.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>
> For Ron and others,
>
> I got hung up on the 701 wing spars for almost 2 years, because I thought
> I would need to buy or borrow a rivet gun and learn to use the gun. And
> I
> don't want someone else to get hung up like that. Because ANYONE can
> purchase or make the bench mounted rivet tool on Jon's web site, and build
> a nice set of 601 or 701 spars, with very little chance for making a
> mistake.. Theres nothing wrong with learning to use a rivet gun as Jon
> C.
> suggests, I just don't want anyone to get hung up like I did and think
> they HAVE to.
>
>
> I like the Yardstore for aircraft tools.
>
> http://www.yardstore.com/
>
> They also have some good prices on alum sheet on the other side of the
> store.
>
> My most recent catalog shows a factory bench mounted dimple rivet tool
> for $140 and it includes the extra depth extension needed to make the 701
> spars, I was talking about in my previous post. If you don't want to
> build
> one.
>
> P.N. 13707
>
> http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=1310
>
>
> A person can probably borrow one of these from an RV builder, at an EAA
> meeting. They use them to dimple the skins. And even if you buy one, a
> person at least can sell it to someone else for at least half when your
> done.
>
> The rivet squeeze sets for it are
>
> P.N. 10110
>
> If you want to build the tool. the individual dies are $3.50 each
>
> P.N. 10112
> P.N. 10113
>
> And while you are ordering things.
>
> The dog leg deburr tool. Is one of the best tools anyone can purchase
> and
> will save tens of hours in time over the Zenith method of deburring
> holes. Another RV building tip.
>
> P.N. 14031
>
> http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=118
>
> Then don't forget the rivet spacer fan.
>
> P.N. 13061
>
> or
>
> automatic center punch
>
> P.N.14089
>
> Drill stops,
> numbered jobber bits for drilling holes.
> clecos
> locking clamps.
> vixen files etc etc etc......
>
> Monty Graves
>
>
> At 08:47 PM 7/16/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>>----- Original Message -----
>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>>>
>>>This bench mounted rivet tool costs about $25-35 to build, is simple to
>>>use, makes a REALLY REALLY good rivet set, And I would disagree with
>>>Jon, about buying a rivet gun unless you think there is going to be a RV
>>>airplane in your future.
>>
>>Monty,
>>
>>I have great respect for those builders (like you) that really do things
>>from scratch... I know I just am not at that level (mentally? skill?) I
>>dunno but I need to spend more time with people like you and others on
>>this list that have those abilities. The rivet gun is for me a crutch for
>>my impatience or fear of doing it the manual way... I bet your workmanship
>>overall shows your skills in other areas too!
>>
>>Hope to meet you in person someday!
>>
>>Thanks for your contributions on the List and website
>>
>>Jon
>>
>
>
>
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Clecos and Drill Bits |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>Has anyone found good vendor(s) at
>Oshkosh for these items? ZAC's web site has a suggested number of clecos
>and drill bits. Are their numbers accurate, or should I be getting more
>than they are suggesting? ZAC doesn't have a suggestion for the number of
>#40 bits for the 3/32" clecos - how many of these bits do I need? Is there
>a particular type of drill bit that works best?
>
>Thanks for your help,
>Dave Van Lanen
>Madison WI
I have received good service from Brown Tool www.browntool.com
They pay for shipping on $85 order (which I have not had any problem
reaching yet). Their 100 piece price for normal Cleco's is $0.32.
I took a left turn regarding drill bits. I found I had problems with
my battery powered drill getting caught exiting from each hole. I
learned about threaded drill bits and bought a couple for each size
needed, #20, #30, and #40. I also made an adapter on my little metal
lathe to fit these little darlings to my 3/8" drill. This solved the
problem with the bit hanging up exiting the sheet metal.
I really went overboard and figured out how to sharpen drill bits
using a bench grinder. It wasn't very difficult and it allowed me to
make split-point bits much steeper in the point angle than the normal
ones. This works very well for me, and I am still on my first set of
bits after completing (almost) the tail parts for a 601 XL. I tend
to drill all my holes with the #40 extra pointy bit and open to tne
needed size as needed after each of the holes has been drilled and
the parts Clecoed together. I realize this is a bit of overkill, but
I am having fun doing it.
I know there are people who say the slow battery powered drill causes
burr problems. This may be true, but I have found ZACs method of
burr removal to be quick and painless (after grinding the sharp edges
off the front end of the files). I prefer the battery drill because
it fits my hand well and has a nice rubber grip.
Good luck,
Paul
601 XL barely started
Message 36
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
http://www.countrysidewalk.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=C&Category_Code=TSUTCL
These guys have used clecos for 25cents each and will mail to Canada!
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
canopy work tonight
Message 37
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|
zenair <zenith-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Hard starting warm 3300 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Jabiru drivers,
I have a question for the gurus out there with Jab 3300s and Odyssey 625
batteries. It's mounted on the firewall of my Zenith 601HDS
taildragger. My 3300/odyssey 625 battery seems generally adequate to
start my motor when I arrive at the airport for the first start of the
day. It will spin the prop vigorosly and usually starts within 5 or 6
blades with the choke out. I then turn on the single-phase alternator
switch and see charge on the ammeter when I get above 1500 rpm speed.
So far, ok. Then I go fly somewhere and sit for 20 or 30 minutes and
get the motor thoroughly heat soaked. I hit the starter and get about
1/2 prop rotation and it's like it hits the wall. When I hand rotate
the prop (mags off) it is definitely harder to pull thru than it was
in the morning before starting. All engine temps are in the green while
flying. The battery voltage still shows 12.5 or better voltage, but it
ain't going to budge with the amps I have in the little 625 battery. If
I can't get a boost battery to jump me off I can wait an hour or so and
it will cool enough to crank with only the internal Odyssey. I have 82
hours on the motor but it seems like it's still not starting to break in.
Installation-wise I have the newer starter and single phase alternator
plus nice heavy and short cable from the battery to the solenoid. I
also have a separate ground lead from the battery to the rear of the
motor near the starter. About the only questionable wiring I see is the
heat-shrunk lead coming from the starter to the solenoid. The factory
lead has about 2 inches of #10 or smaller wire coming out of the starter
and joining into a couple of feet of #4 or heavier cable. DOes anybody
else have this small factory lead attached to the starter? Anybody
have hot start problems?
THanks for any ideas? Don't want to go to larger battery if it's not
going to fix the problem.
Ron in Atlanta
N601TD
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: ELT mounting location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Winston Ellis <w1mdi@cox-internet.com>
Mike
I made a small reinforced shelf like bracket for the ELT that I mounted
on the forward side of 7F1-4 just below the lightening hole. This put
the ELT horizontal on centerline in a fairly crash protected spot and
the antenna on top of the fuselage as close to the tail as possible. I
put a small access panel in the bottom skin. The provided remote control
cable (telephone wire) is more than long enough to reach the instrument
panel.
Winston Ellis
Ketchum, Idaho
CH701/Suzuki
>...I am seeking recommendations from other builders as to where they installed
>their ELTs and how that location worked out.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Mike Elrod
>
>
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Clecos and Drill Bits |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Paul - what is the current method that ZAC is using for burr removal? When
I went through rudder "school" we twisted a 1/4" dia. drill in the hole -
very slow. You mention a file???? Robert Schoenberger 701 55% do not
archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Clecos and Drill Bits
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>
>>Has anyone found good vendor(s) at
>>Oshkosh for these items? ZAC's web site has a suggested number of clecos
>>and drill bits. Are their numbers accurate, or should I be getting more
>>than they are suggesting? ZAC doesn't have a suggestion for the number of
>>#40 bits for the 3/32" clecos - how many of these bits do I need? Is
>>there
>>a particular type of drill bit that works best?
>>
>>Thanks for your help,
>>Dave Van Lanen
>>Madison WI
>
>
> I have received good service from Brown Tool www.browntool.com
> They pay for shipping on $85 order (which I have not had any problem
> reaching yet). Their 100 piece price for normal Cleco's is $0.32.
>
> I took a left turn regarding drill bits. I found I had problems with
> my battery powered drill getting caught exiting from each hole. I
> learned about threaded drill bits and bought a couple for each size
> needed, #20, #30, and #40. I also made an adapter on my little metal
> lathe to fit these little darlings to my 3/8" drill. This solved the
> problem with the bit hanging up exiting the sheet metal.
>
> I really went overboard and figured out how to sharpen drill bits
> using a bench grinder. It wasn't very difficult and it allowed me to
> make split-point bits much steeper in the point angle than the normal
> ones. This works very well for me, and I am still on my first set of
> bits after completing (almost) the tail parts for a 601 XL. I tend
> to drill all my holes with the #40 extra pointy bit and open to tne
> needed size as needed after each of the holes has been drilled and
> the parts Clecoed together. I realize this is a bit of overkill, but
> I am having fun doing it.
>
> I know there are people who say the slow battery powered drill causes
> burr problems. This may be true, but I have found ZACs method of
> burr removal to be quick and painless (after grinding the sharp edges
> off the front end of the files). I prefer the battery drill because
> it fits my hand well and has a nice rubber grip.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Paul
> 601 XL barely started
>
>
>
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: ELT mounting location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
Check my site under rear service door,
http://www.angelfire.com/un/ch701/reardoor.html. I mounted my ELT just
inside the door toward the front. That's where it is recommended by the
manufacturer.
Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: <MElrod3732@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: ELT mounting location
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: MElrod3732@aol.com
>
> Hi fellow builders: I am having difficulty finding a suitable location to
> mount an Ameri-King ELT on my 701 that meets all the requirements in the
> installation instructions.
> I am seeking recommendations from other builders as to where they
installed
> their ELTs and how that location worked out.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Mike Elrod
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: 110% 701? 0.30 FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS From: |
starts with nums
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
I have a friend, another 701 builder, who added a foot to his wings and 6
inches to his horizontal.
A couple things you can do to give you more room. Move the instrument panel
forward a couple of inches. Put electric flap actuator in and drop you seat
pan down a couple of inches. Use bubble doors. If I did it again I would
move the back of the seat back a few inches, do away with the seat pan and
put seat tracks in with adjustable seats. The 701 is not a tall/big person
plane. In my opinion the seating design is very poor with no flexibility
and for short folks only. Any thing under 6' is short. Just my thoughts.
Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "701flyer" <701flyer@earthlink.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 110% 701? 0.30 FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS From: starts
with nums
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: 701flyer <701flyer@earthlink.net>
>
> Greetings -
>
> I'm planning my 701 build (from plans arriving next week) and am wondering
if anyone has attempted to "Supersize" the 701?
>
> I know that Zenith is planning the CH750 for down the road, but it will
not be available to kit or scratch builders. It seems like a great move for
guys my size (6'-2").
>
> I was at Arlington last weekend and sat in the 701 at the Zenith paddock
and could make it work (had to remove all cushions to get in), but I was
thinking that a little judicious strengthening of spars, struts and a change
to .020" skins could make a 110% version quite doable and still stay within
the LSA limits. Using the 601 firewall mentioned for the 750 would allow the
use of existing FWF set-ups and keep the powerplant options open.
>
> Any thoughts on FAA requirements for an altered design or other
suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Troy
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: 25 cent clecos |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
I have always been able to find 25 cent Clecos (NEW) at Osh Kosh. Seems like
every year I buy another 100. You can never have too many.
Dave
Message 43
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| Subject: | Clecos and Drill Bits |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
http://www.ch601.org/tools/vixen%20file.jpg
This has been the greatest tool for deburring we use, no more twisting
drill bits and as fast as can be. Just buy a Vixen file, cut some slabs
off and glue to wood block. Dress up the edges and voila you have the
ultimate tool. IF you notice in the picture we have the countersunk
screws forget it we didn't think of glue!!!
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Schoenberger
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Clecos and Drill Bits
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger"
<hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Paul - what is the current method that ZAC is using for burr removal?
When
I went through rudder "school" we twisted a 1/4" dia. drill in the hole
-
very slow. You mention a file???? Robert Schoenberger 701 55% do not
archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Clecos and Drill Bits
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>
>>Has anyone found good vendor(s) at
>>Oshkosh for these items? ZAC's web site has a suggested number of
clecos
>>and drill bits. Are their numbers accurate, or should I be getting
more
>>than they are suggesting? ZAC doesn't have a suggestion for the
number of
>>#40 bits for the 3/32" clecos - how many of these bits do I need? Is
>>there
>>a particular type of drill bit that works best?
>>
>>Thanks for your help,
>>Dave Van Lanen
>>Madison WI
>
>
> I have received good service from Brown Tool www.browntool.com
> They pay for shipping on $85 order (which I have not had any problem
> reaching yet). Their 100 piece price for normal Cleco's is $0.32.
>
> I took a left turn regarding drill bits. I found I had problems with
> my battery powered drill getting caught exiting from each hole. I
> learned about threaded drill bits and bought a couple for each size
> needed, #20, #30, and #40. I also made an adapter on my little metal
> lathe to fit these little darlings to my 3/8" drill. This solved the
> problem with the bit hanging up exiting the sheet metal.
>
> I really went overboard and figured out how to sharpen drill bits
> using a bench grinder. It wasn't very difficult and it allowed me to
> make split-point bits much steeper in the point angle than the normal
> ones. This works very well for me, and I am still on my first set of
> bits after completing (almost) the tail parts for a 601 XL. I tend
> to drill all my holes with the #40 extra pointy bit and open to tne
> needed size as needed after each of the holes has been drilled and
> the parts Clecoed together. I realize this is a bit of overkill, but
> I am having fun doing it.
>
> I know there are people who say the slow battery powered drill causes
> burr problems. This may be true, but I have found ZACs method of
> burr removal to be quick and painless (after grinding the sharp edges
> off the front end of the files). I prefer the battery drill because
> it fits my hand well and has a nice rubber grip.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Paul
> 601 XL barely started
>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Clecos and Drill Bits |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>Paul - what is the current method that ZAC is using for burr removal? When
>I went through rudder "school" we twisted a 1/4" dia. drill in the hole -
>very slow. You mention a file???? Robert Schoenberger 701 55% do not
>archive
-
The burr removal method involves laying a flat file on the surface of
the aluminum sheet and sliding it over the drilled hole. This files
any burr off the hole edges and leaves a smooth surface. It does
leave a few small scratches on the sheet of aluminum, but these are
only surface scratches which should disappear in the paint prepping process.
One note is that the forward edge of the file tends to make larger
scratches, and it shouldn't really dig into the surface at all
(IMO). So I grind the edges of the file to make them rounded and not
sharp cornered.
Another note is to use a single cut mill file. It doesn't really
seem to matter how big the file is so long as it can lay flat on the
sheet of metal. You can slide a file down the length of a long rivet
line and be deburred in a matter of a few seconds for the whole
line. It is easy to tell when you have done enough because a finger
slid across the drill hole should not feel any thing other than the hole.
I hope that description is clear enough to help. I can't remember
exactly where I got started on it but I think it was the builder's
manual that comes with the plans. I added a few twists myself after
a few decades of fooling around with metal and wood.
(I like to use the carbide burr tools on steel machined with sharp
edges, but I think this is a little too powerful for aluminum burrs.)
Good luck,
Paul
Message 45
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| Subject: | Answer about clecos |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
I have close to 500 right now and I still run out But Paul Rodriguez
told me why and it is listed here.
http://www.ch601.org/stories/deathofcleco/death_of_a_cleco.htm
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
VideoFlyer@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 25 cent clecos
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
I have always been able to find 25 cent Clecos (NEW) at Osh Kosh. Seems
like
every year I buy another 100. You can never have too many.
Dave
Message 46
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| Subject: | My impressions of Jab 3300 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
Eddie:
You asked:
"Hi Stan,
I am waiting for my 601XL kit to arrive, it 3 months away (sigh).
Anyway, I was just wondering what your thoughts / impressions were so
far on the Jab 3300."
I think it's the best aeronautical engine built. My only problem was
that the fuel flow proved to be around 6.7 GPH which was more than
advertised. I believe the new Economy Tuning kit will solve that
problem. Buy it, you'll love it, and it will take your mind off
girls for short periods. Well, maybe that goes too far.
Stan
601HDS/Jab 3300
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Fuselage Gussets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hi Robert,
Now go back to your inventory, I am shure you will find a pachage with the gussets...
If you dont, then use the extra material.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Robert Schoenberger <hrs1@frontiernet.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger"
---------------------------------
List . . . thanks for the quick responses on my missing .025" "extra material"
for the fuselage gussets. As suggested, I went back to my crate and looked under
the two cardboard sheets on the bottom of the crate. I found an unbelievable
amount of extra aluminum in all sorts of sizes and thickness. When I inventoried
the crate in the Spring I just looked for the items on the packing list,
all of which were on top of these cardboard sheets and all of which were there.
I had just assumed that the cardboard in the bottom was for protection of the
furnished, labeled parts. My hat is off to ZAC for going the extra mile. Thx.
again for your help. Robert Schoenberger 701 55%
Message 48
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| Subject: | Last Call For Builders dinner RSVP |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Hi Gang, I'm about to print name tags and I would like everyone to have
one with there name on it, plus we would like to have an idea of the
attendance for the builders dinner. So if you have not RSVP ed already
please do at www.ch601.org or www.ch701.com
Thanks
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
Message 49
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| Subject: | My impressions of Jab 3300 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eddie Seve" <eddie.seve@clarity.com>
Hi Stan,
Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.
Happy flying
Eddie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stanley
Challgren
Subject: Zenith-List: My impressions of Jab 3300
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
Eddie:
You asked:
"Hi Stan,
I am waiting for my 601XL kit to arrive, it 3 months away (sigh).
Anyway, I was just wondering what your thoughts / impressions were so
far on the Jab 3300."
I think it's the best aeronautical engine built. My only problem was
that the fuel flow proved to be around 6.7 GPH which was more than
advertised. I believe the new Economy Tuning kit will solve that
problem. Buy it, you'll love it, and it will take your mind off
girls for short periods. Well, maybe that goes too far.
Stan
601HDS/Jab 3300
Message 50
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| Subject: | Clecos and Drill Bits |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
At 08:08 PM 7/17/2005, you wrote:
>http://www.ch601.org/tools/vixen%20file.jpg
>
>This has been the greatest tool for deburring we use, no more twisting
>drill bits and as fast as can be. Just buy a Vixen file, cut some slabs
>off and glue to wood block. Dress up the edges and voila you have the
>ultimate tool. IF you notice in the picture we have the countersunk
>screws forget it we didn't think of glue!!!
Very cool looking tool! I am sure it works well. It sounds like the
file I tried to describe but includes a nice handle.
I am afraid to ask how you cut the file, but I would like to
know. Did you use a cutting torch? The drilled and countersunk
holes look just incredible. I hope you didn't anneal the file before
doing all this . . .
I presume by glue for this project you mean epoxy . .
Paul
601 XL barely started
do not archive
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 51
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
Hi List. Been busy on and off with my 601 but have since decided to start a 701
due to the fact I can take off and land in my own back yard with this one where
the 601 would be a sqeeze. I still plan on finishing the 601 but will concentrate
on the 701. What I'm after before I order my own set is if anyone on the
list has started a 701 and given up or changed there mind. I'm not really after
a finished one as the building is the fun part. I would consider one that
was partially started. You can e-mail me off list if you want.
David Nimigon
Alberta
601XL
99% to go
Hopefully a 701 on the go
dnimigon@telusplanet.net
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