---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/19/05: 57 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:04 AM - Re: Hard starting warm 3300 (xl) 2. 03:08 AM - Re: Hard starting warm 3300 (owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com) 3. 05:29 AM - Re: Oshkosh (Michel Therrien) 4. 05:39 AM - Vixen files - shortening (Robert Schoenberger) 5. 05:51 AM - Re: New to the group. (ROBERT SCEPPA) 6. 06:12 AM - Re: Vixen files - shortening (Clyde Barcus) 7. 06:19 AM - Re: tension control cables! Aerobatics? (Don Mountain) 8. 06:19 AM - Re: Oshkosh (Randy Culp) 9. 06:50 AM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey (NYTerminat@aol.com) 10. 06:54 AM - Sonka Stuff (Larry) 11. 07:00 AM - Re: Vixen files - shortening (Paul Mulwitz) 12. 07:04 AM - Re: not spam (Carlos Sa) 13. 07:08 AM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 14. 07:08 AM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey (Larry) 15. 07:20 AM - Re: tension control cables! Aerobatics? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 16. 07:21 AM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey (Phil Maxson) 17. 07:29 AM - Re: surface scratches with a vixen file (Philip Condon) 18. 08:24 AM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey (Zodie Rocket) 19. 08:30 AM - Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory (Zed Smith) 20. 09:00 AM - 601XL at Oshkosh (jim) 21. 09:26 AM - Re: not spam (etn industries ltd.) 22. 09:43 AM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey () 23. 09:49 AM - Re: not spam (Daniel Vandenberg) 24. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory (Robert Schoenberger) 25. 10:16 AM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey (Lance Gingell) 26. 11:02 AM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey (Frank Stutzman) 27. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory (VideoFlyer@aol.com) 28. 11:41 AM - Re: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory (kevinbonds) 29. 12:21 PM - Re: Vixen files - shortening (mike honer) 30. 12:35 PM - Re: Vixen files - shortening (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 31. 12:47 PM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey (Timothy Coalwell) 32. 12:50 PM - Re: surface scratches with a vixen file (Steve Hulland) 33. 12:51 PM - Bonanza drivers . . . (Paul Mulwitz) 34. 01:13 PM - Re: Bonanza drivers . . . (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 35. 01:54 PM - Re: Bonanza drivers . . . (Frank Stutzman) 36. 02:00 PM - Re: Vixen files - shortening (Clyde Barcus) 37. 02:11 PM - Re: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory (Mike Fortunato) 38. 02:34 PM - Re: Engine crate handling (Kent Brown) 39. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 40. 02:37 PM - Re: Vixen files - shortening (ron wehba) 41. 02:39 PM - Weekly Roast: Alex, Doctors, Lawyers, Vee-tails etc (Zed Smith) 42. 02:44 PM - Re: Vixen files - shortening (Paul Mulwitz) 43. 02:55 PM - Re: Weekly Roast: Alex, Doctors, Lawyers, Vee-tails (Craig Payne) 44. 02:58 PM - Hard starting warm 3300 (Peter Dunning) 45. 03:05 PM - Re: not spam (Michel Therrien) 46. 04:32 PM - bonanzas and crates () 47. 06:33 PM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey (n801bh@netzero.com) 48. 06:45 PM - Oshkosh Lodging (N5SL) 49. 06:57 PM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey (Larry) 50. 07:41 PM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey (Craig Payne) 51. 07:44 PM - Re: not spam (Daniel Vandenberg) 52. 07:45 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (Craig Payne) 53. 08:05 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (Cory Emberson) 54. 09:10 PM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey (Alex Rodriguez, MD) 55. 09:25 PM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey (jackyager) 56. 10:26 PM - Re: Intro- Alex from New Jersey (kevinbonds) 57. 10:44 PM - Zenith Drawing Quality (Paul Mulwitz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:27 AM PST US From: xl Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hard starting warm 3300 --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl Ron, I don't have any thoughts on how to resolve your problem. My 3300/odyssey 625 starts easily hot or cold. When it's warm it starts immediately. If I flew the day before, I think it starts before the prop goes around once. After the plane sits a few days, it may take 2-3 turns (more in the winter). My engine has more compression when it is warm as you report. It takes more effort to turn the prop. And I too have the smaller wire coming out of the starter. I don't think that the size of the battery is the problem. Make sure that the battery is getting charged. I had some marginal connections in my circuit that reduced the current getting to the battery. I could start but the voltage was marginal. And I don't use the choke when the engine is warm. Joe E N633Z @ BFI 225 hours 601XL On Sun, 17 Jul 2005, ron dewees wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees > Hi Jabiru drivers, > ....snip My 3300/odyssey 625 battery seems generally adequate to > start my motor when I arrive at the airport for the first start of the > day. It will spin the prop vigorosly and usually starts within 5 or 6 > blades with the choke out. > .....snip Then I go fly somewhere and sit for 20 or 30 minutes and > get the motor thoroughly heat soaked. I hit the starter and get about > 1/2 prop rotation and it's like it hits the wall. When I hand rotate > the prop (mags off) it is definitely harder to pull thru than it was > in the morning before starting. All engine temps are in the green while > ...snip heat-shrunk lead coming from the starter to the solenoid. The > factory lead has about 2 inches of #10 or smaller wire coming out of > the starter and joining into a couple of feet of #4 or heavier cable. > DOes anybody else have this small factory lead attached to the > starter? Anybody have hot start problems? > Ron in Atlanta N601TD > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:42 AM PST US From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hard starting warm 3300 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hello Ron, Could this have something to do with too advance timing??? Not much of an engine mechanic, but something to eliminate. Regards, Johann G. Do not archive > > Ron, > > I don't have any thoughts on how to resolve your problem. > > My 3300/odyssey 625 starts easily hot or cold. > When it's warm it starts immediately. If I flew the day before, > I think it starts before the prop goes around once. After the plane > sits a few days, it may take 2-3 turns (more in the winter). My engine > has more compression when it is warm as you report. It takes more effort > to turn the prop. And I too have the smaller wire coming out of the > starter. > > I don't think that the size of the battery is the problem. > Make sure that the battery is getting charged. > I had some marginal connections in my circuit that reduced the > current getting to the battery. I could start but the voltage was > marginal. And I don't use the choke when the engine is warm. > > Joe E > N633Z @ BFI > 225 hours > 601XL > > > On Sun, 17 Jul 2005, ron dewees wrote: >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees >> Hi Jabiru drivers, >> ....snip My 3300/odyssey 625 battery seems generally adequate to >> start my motor when I arrive at the airport for the first start of the >> day. It will spin the prop vigorosly and usually starts within 5 or 6 >> blades with the choke out. >> .....snip Then I go fly somewhere and sit for 20 or 30 minutes and >> get the motor thoroughly heat soaked. I hit the starter and get about >> 1/2 prop rotation and it's like it hits the wall. When I hand rotate >> the prop (mags off) it is definitely harder to pull thru than it was >> in the morning before starting. All engine temps are in the green while >> ...snip heat-shrunk lead coming from the starter to the solenoid. The >> factory lead has about 2 inches of #10 or smaller wire coming out of >> the starter and joining into a couple of feet of #4 or heavier cable. >> DOes anybody else have this small factory lead attached to the >> starter? Anybody have hot start problems? >> Ron in Atlanta N601TD >> > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:56 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oshkosh --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien I will be camping at Osh with my older son (11 years old). We intend to go to the dinner, but we'll register on site if we find a lift and if my son wants to go. Michel PS: All messages from Zodie Rocket go to the bulk mail folder on my Yahoo service (they are treated as spams). Anybody knows how to solve this? Do not archive --- Zodie Rocket wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" > > > I was just thinking, I know it is a dangerous past > time for me. But for > everyone going to Oshkosh this year how many of you > camp at the > Airventure grounds? Has everyone going to the > builders dinner signed up > on the www.ch601.org and www.ch701.com website? This > form will be used > as your RSVP for the dinner. > ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:00 AM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Zenith-List: Vixen files - shortening --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" List . . . I want to shorten my Vixen file and attach it to a wooden handle like the one that appeared on the List yesterday. How does one cut a file? It's my understanding that the material is extremely hard. Will a standard grinding wheel be sufficient to round the ends after it's been cut? Thanks in advance. Robert Schoenberger 701 55% ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:47 AM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the group. --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA > Hi, Bob Sceppa here also a newby. Plans building. I > am also involved with another Project, a Glastar. > There are 13 owners and 8 actively working on it. > I have helped build the tail section and it too > involves riveting. The one tool that helps is a > pneumatic rivet squeezer. It has a short throat and > has saved time in getting in where its possible. > Also helps when theres no one else to help you hold > the material while you rivet. Another tool is a hand > squeezer. --- Cleone Markwell wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cleone Markwell > > > Jon, Want to sell a Rotax 912Ul? Ha. Go to > http://flycorvair.com/crankissues.html Corvair > engines are breaking > crankshafts. Cleone How are you getting along? > >< > > > At 05:47 PM 7/16/05, you wrote: > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" > > > > >Ron, > > > >Just one opinion... get yourself a rivet gun and > bucking bar..... you may > >find that the rivet setter *may* not work on the > 701 fuse sides due to the > >hard to get to areas involved wth those pieces... > take a look at the plans > >and you decide. Riveting with a rivet gun didnt > take too long to learn! > >Yes, you would need an air compressor, too. > > > >Good luck and welcome to the List. > > > >Jon > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Ron Culver" > >To: > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the group. > > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" > > > > > > > Newby here as well.I have built the 701 Rudder > from the kit but wish to > > > build the rest from scratch. Doing the rudder > with pop rivets was almost > > > too > > > easy. Now I have the aluminum and have built the > forms for the wing ribs > > > etc > > > but need to do the spar web. That calls for hard > rivets which I have never > > > done. I am building the"Rivet Setter For Spars" > rig that is posted on the > > > builders site but have no idea how to set it up > for the riveting. I don't > > > even know the terminology used for the parts > that are on either side of > > > the rivet when they are set. If I knew those > terms I could look up the > > > correct parts. The rivets are all AN 470-AD-4-4, > -4-5,-5-7 andAN-470- > > > A-3-3. > > > I have the rivets which appear to be anodized > aluminum ( I got them > > > directly > > > from Zenith so I assume they are correct). I > need some advise on the names > > > of the parts to complete the Rivet Setter and > the procedure to set the > > > rivets correctly. Thanks in advance.. Ron Culver > East Greenbush,NY > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dave Ruddiman" > > > > To: > > > Subject: Zenith-List: New to the group. > > > > > > > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave > Ruddiman" > > >> > > >> > > >> Hello All, > > >> > > >> I just joined this group yesterday. I haven't > read through to much of the > > >> previous information yet. I have previously > built the tail group and > > >> wings > > >> for a 601HDS which were destroyed in the > garage. That's another story. > > >> Built the rudder for a 701, and have just > ordered the tail kit for the > > >> 601 > > >> XL. I did get a chance for a quick demo flight > in the red and white 601XL > > >> at the Arlington fly-in. That's what ultimately > pushed me over the edge > > >> again to start another project. This one will > get finished and fly. > > >> Haven't quite figured out how to break it to > the wife yet that I am > > >> starting another project. I guess it will just > be a big surprise. I live > > >> in Salem, Oregon. Is anyone around that is > fairly close to me building? I > > >> hope this is the correct way to post a message. > > >> > > >> Dave > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:54 AM PST US From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vixen files - shortening --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" The file will break easily, put it in a vise to the depth you want to end up with, wrap a rag around it and snap it off. Grind the edges off on a typical bench grinder. Also round the edges on the remainder of the file to use for other purposes. Regards: Clyde Barcus 601 XL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Zenith-List: Vixen files - shortening > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" > > > List . . . I want to shorten my Vixen file and attach it to a wooden > handle like the one that appeared on the List yesterday. How does one cut > a file? It's my understanding that the material is extremely hard. Will > a standard grinding wheel be sufficient to round the ends after it's been > cut? Thanks in advance. Robert Schoenberger 701 55% > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:01 AM PST US From: Don Mountain Subject: RE: Zenith-List: tension control cables! Aerobatics? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain > George (Corvallis)" > > I agree. I simply tensioned mine until it felt about > right (about 4" > deflection either way) and its been fine for 370 > hours including some > aerobatic manouvers. > > Frank > > 601 HDS Aerobatic manouvers? I always wondered if the Zenith Zodiac 601 XL was strong enough to do any aerobatics. Has anybody done any barrel rolls or anything else similar without any problems or apparent distress? What do you suppose one could do in a 601? I understand the floats in the carborators and oil supply of most wouldn't handle inverted operation. Don http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:01 AM PST US From: "Randy Culp" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oshkosh --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Culp" Michel (and anyone else in a similar situation): We'll be at Oshkosh on Thursday and will be attending the builders dinner that evening. I'll have a 7 seat minivan which currently has 4 open seats for anyone wanting a lift to the Builders Dinner. If you (or anyone else) is interested; contact me off-list (randy_culp@hotmail.com) and we can set up a time/place to meet before the dinner. Randy Culp 601XL Corvair Do Not Archive >From: Michel Therrien >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oshkosh >Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 05:28:48 -0700 (PDT) > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > >I will be camping at Osh with my older son (11 years >old). We intend to go to the dinner, but we'll >register on site if we find a lift and if my son wants >to go. > >Michel >PS: All messages from Zodie Rocket go to the bulk mail >folder on my Yahoo service (they are treated as >spams). Anybody knows how to solve this? > >Do not archive > >--- Zodie Rocket wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" > > > > > > I was just thinking, I know it is a dangerous past > > time for me. But for > > everyone going to Oshkosh this year how many of you > > camp at the > > Airventure grounds? Has everyone going to the > > builders dinner signed up > > on the www.ch601.org and www.ch701.com website? This > > form will be used > > as your RSVP for the dinner. > > > >---------------------------- >Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby > http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby > > Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:22 AM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com Alex I highly reccomend doing the rudder workshop, it gets you to understand the ins and outs of the drawings and construction. Bob Spudis CH701- 912S 75% ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:52 AM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Zenith-List: Sonka Stuff --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" It looks like that Sonka site is under construction. You can find more about it at http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/wilsonnz, he might be able to direct those interested to the Sonka folks. Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:19 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vixen files - shortening --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >List . . . I want to shorten my Vixen file and attach it to a wooden >handle like the one that appeared on the List yesterday. How does >one cut a file? It's my understanding that the material is >extremely hard. Will a standard grinding wheel be sufficient to >round the ends after it's been cut? Thanks in advance. Robert >Schoenberger 701 55% > Any grinder - either stone or belt with abrasive should work fine to round the file edges. I am not sure about cutting the file. I suspect the only practical way to cut it is with a torch. That is a very special skill which requires a purpose built cutting torch. Perhaps there is another way to cut the file . . . Paul XL barely started do not archive --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:03 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: not spam --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Michel, I also use Yahoo, but haven't had this problem... Salut Carlos --- Michel Therrien wrote: > Michel > PS: All messages from Zodie Rocket go to the bulk mail > folder on my Yahoo service (they are treated as > spams). Anybody knows how to solve this? > > Do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:14 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Alex, I agree and disagree with Mark. The workshop can give you the opportunity to learn if you are asking questions and paying attention. What to drill and how, how to cut and trim and finish metal. The deburring and measuring and marking techniques. And how to read the plans, corollate with the numbered parts system and the photo helper manuals. Yes, for a fellow that has not built before it can give you a lot of confidence. Further, during the years(?) you are building you will probably have to contact the ZAC staff numerous times. At least I did. Knowing Shirley and Joyce, Nick and Roger will pay off when you are trying to learn something, or buy a replacement part or piece will be of great benefit. Plus, we had an informal dinner with the staff and other builders at a local club that was a fine deal (hope they are still doing it) and some of the fellows I met there and got to know have become good friends that have really been an informal support group. All that and you come away with a finisher rudder. For the time and expense it will be about the best deal you will get on this building trek you are about to start. FWIW, best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:38 AM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" The rudder workshop is ok, but gives a potential builder false confidence. Why you ask? Because it has been done so many times, it is finely tuned. The instructions on the rudder are great and very complete. They need to have a work shop on a part(s) that is not so programmed and the instructions are not so clear, say a wing, or mating the cabin to the fuselage, etc. Unless a new builder is a total novice, I think the rudder workshop is a waste of time. It's not the real word. With the finely tuned instructions on the rudder almost any one can build one with little effort, but not so for the rest of the kit. Just a word to the wise, but don't let that stop you, it can be done, I did it. Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey > --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com > > Alex > > I highly reccomend doing the rudder workshop, it gets you to understand the > ins and outs of the drawings and construction. > > Bob Spudis > > CH701- 912S 75% > > > -- > > -- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:43 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: tension control cables! Aerobatics? From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" It won't handle inverted so its positive G stuff only. Not the most naturally aerobatic airplane (too stable at high bank angles) but it will roll and will loop...I have not done a loop (others have) but rolls (120 mph entry speed), spins, chandells, split S's are all very doable. AT your own risk and with the proper training!!!!! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Mountain Subject: RE: Zenith-List: tension control cables! Aerobatics? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain > George (Corvallis)" > > I agree. I simply tensioned mine until it felt about right (about 4" > deflection either way) and its been fine for 370 hours including some > aerobatic manouvers. > > Frank > > 601 HDS Aerobatic manouvers? I always wondered if the Zenith Zodiac 601 XL was strong enough to do any aerobatics. Has anybody done any barrel rolls or anything else similar without any problems or apparent distress? What do you suppose one could do in a 601? I understand the floats in the carborators and oil supply of most wouldn't handle inverted operation. Don http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:29 AM PST US From: "Phil Maxson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" Alex, Welcome to the list. I hope you enjoy building as much as I do. You are welcome to come visit my project in Northwest New Jersey. I'm done with the fuselage, and have mounted my engine and I'm working on the canopy and cowling now. If you're interested, please reply off list. I think the factory rudder class is an excellent investment and I'm very glad I did it. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Washington, NJ >From: "Alex Rodriguez, MD" >Subject: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey >Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:35:21 -0400 > >Hello, > >I have been researching homebuilts for a few months and I've settled >on the Zodiac XL. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:50 AM PST US From: "Philip Condon" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: surface scratches with a vixen file --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Condon" Jeees guys.....get a deburring tool and get on with life. I would never use a vixen file to debur. I can speak with some background. After building two (pre - prepunched) Vans RV's, with about 14000 rivets, air driven/squeezer each........I use a 6 dollar deburring hand crank-hand tool. The threaded end allows multiple pilots, deburers, ect.Check out Avery tool or Cleveland tool. Grease up a file???? What a mess. File off a file.....??? Use the proper tool and enjoy the building process. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:09 AM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" New Members don't mind Larry ,he is our local cynic which makes us consider our opinions, and we do have respect for him and his thoughts, but as for the rudder workshop please disregard his opinions as they are his and few others. As for confidence false or not the fact Is that you do build your own rudder and you do learn the basic skill in which to build a Zenith plane from, you also get to meet the people you will be interacting with and make new friends that will follow you throughout your building experience! Larry I have been meaning to ask, you spent so much time on your 701 "KUTTER" and installing a beautiful FWF for your 2.5L Subaru direct drive, what happened? I find it hard to understand how anyone can be all done and ready for there first flight then completely switch FWF, I can understand switching after your initial 40 hrs are up but to do it just before first flight, I'm boggled to no end did you even get it to bunny hop before you ripped it all apart? Did the math not work out in the end with an engine that heavy? Several people have asked! Care to share your experience? Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751 President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" The rudder workshop is ok, but gives a potential builder false confidence. Why you ask? Because it has been done so many times, it is finely tuned. The instructions on the rudder are great and very complete. They need to have a work shop on a part(s) that is not so programmed and the instructions are not so clear, say a wing, or mating the cabin to the fuselage, etc. Unless a new builder is a total novice, I think the rudder workshop is a waste of time. It's not the real word. With the finely tuned instructions on the rudder almost any one can build one with little effort, but not so for the rest of the kit. Just a word to the wise, but don't let that stop you, it can be done, I did it. Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey > --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com > > Alex > > I highly reccomend doing the rudder workshop, it gets you to understand the > ins and outs of the drawings and construction. > > Bob Spudis > > CH701- 912S 75% > > > -- > > -- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:55 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith I agree with Larry....the Rudder Workshop IS finely tuned. However, the trip to Mexico, MO, is a chance to get outta Dodge. It's a fun deal......you'll get to see how all the other parts are made. You can eyeball the finished product(s). You get to search for someplace to eat while there. Good luck. Although the ZAC website has excellent photos in the builder's guide, your next excursion should be to another builder......someone slightly ahead of you. Buy comfortable shoes and a short stool, build a "standing height" work table; get a coffee pot, refrigerator, giant Snap-On roll around tool chest, never go to Sears without visiting the tool department. I suggest internet service inside your work area, complete wih printer, scanner & digital camera. The guys on this List have already been there, done that, or soon will. All will help you even if its 3 a.m......maybe that's stretching it a bit. Stay on the List, acquire a thick skin (there are frequent literary assaults). The Rudder Workshop is purely a personal decision.......I went, glad I did. Would I go again? Not for a rudder. But hindsight is 20-20. After you've acquired a small pile of "Oh, Damn!" parts you'll be a pro like the rest of us and will be available to dispense advice without being asked. Welcome to the world of hand-crafted aluminum flying machines. Zed/701/R912/still crafting do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:40 AM PST US From: "jim" Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL at Oshkosh --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" All, I sent two messages out to the Zenith Forum last week regarding OSHKOSH: 1. I have an empty seat in my car for somebody who wants a free ride to Oshkosh. I'll be leaving this Friday (22 July) at about 5 PM and returning on Sunday July 30th, departure from Oshkosh around 3 PM. Please contact me off-line if you are interested in joining me for the ride to Oshkosh. 2. Since my new 601XL SLSA was delayed in shipping from the Czech Republic plant, we have no 601XL to display in our booth at Oshkosh. I would be interested in talking to anybody who is flying up to Oshkosh in their 601XL, to see if they might be interested in free tie-downs in our booth at Oshkosh. If you are selling your 601XL, you can put on a For Sale sign with you phone number. Our booth is located in the middle of everything so you will get lots of exposure. For both of the above, please contact me off-list at: jim@pellien.com or give me a call at 703-313-4818 Thanks, Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 jim@sportsplanes.com Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:06 AM PST US From: "etn industries ltd." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: not spam --> Zenith-List message posted by: "etn industries ltd." dear michael pl go to acount options and select mail filters the add new filter key in if mail have 'zodie rocket" in body, subject then send to " inbox"{ or if u have zenth folder then use that ffolder name,,,hope that helps ,,do not archive --- Carlos Sa wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > > Michel, I also use Yahoo, but haven't had this > problem... > > Salut > > Carlos > > > --- Michel Therrien wrote: > > > Michel > > PS: All messages from Zodie Rocket go to the bulk > mail > > folder on my Yahoo service (they are treated as > > spams). Anybody knows how to solve this? > > > > Do not archive > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > regards, Etn INDUSTRIES LTD. 2209,howard johnson, no.500 ,xinjiang road,shanghai 13512171905 021-63801497 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:30 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: Alex: Go to the rudder workshop. It will not teach you how to build a plane, nor will it teach you how to build a rudder. It WILL teach you the manual skills, and, hopefully, how not to run a drill bit through your finger. Those manual skills you will learn will be applicable to the entire plane. The smartest homebuilder who can't get those tasks right will not be happy with his result. A dummy who has to read the instructions ten times, then have somebody explain them to him, but who has mastered the above, will build a fine plane. Analogous to medicine, it's like sutures. It ain't great surgery if the artery leaks. Listers, let's hear it for an MD who opts not to shorten his life with a Bonanza!!! Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair Hangin' that Czech gear ----- Original Message ----- From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:07 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Alex, I agree and disagree with Mark. The workshop can give you the opportunity to learn if you are asking questions and paying attention. What to drill and how, how to cut and trim and finish metal. The deburring and measuring and marking techniques. And how to read the plans, corollate with the numbered parts system and the photo helper manuals. Yes, for a fellow that has not built before it can give you a lot of confidence. Further, during the years(?) you are building you will probably have to contact the ZAC staff numerous times. At least I did. Knowing Shirley and Joyce, Nick and Roger will pay off when you are trying to learn something, or buy a replacement part or piece will be of great benefit. Plus, we had an informal dinner with the staff and other builders at a local club that was a fine deal (hope they are still doing it) and some of the fellows I met there and got to know have become good friends that have really been an informal support group. All that and you come away with a finisher rudder. For the time and expense it will be about the best deal you will get on this building trek you are about to start. FWIW, best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:31 AM PST US From: Daniel Vandenberg Subject: Re: Zenith-List: not spam --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg Michel... This was happening to me as well. Here's how I fixed it: 1. Click on "Mail Options" in the upper right corner of the screen. 2. On the "Mail Options" screen click on "Spam Protection". 3. On the "Spam Protection" screen check the box in front of "Move the message to my Inbox" under "When I mark a message in the Bulk folder as Not Spam:" 4. Click on "Save Changes" in the upper left of the screen. 5. The next time any Zenith List mail ends up in your "Bulk" mailbox, you can now check the box next to the message and then click "not spam"...and it will be directed to your inbox in the future. Dan do not archive --- Carlos Sa wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > > Michel, I also use Yahoo, but haven't had this > problem... > > Salut > > Carlos > > > --- Michel Therrien wrote: > > > Michel > > PS: All messages from Zodie Rocket go to the bulk > mail > > folder on my Yahoo service (they are treated as > > spams). Anybody knows how to solve this? > > > > Do not archive > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:59 AM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" I thought the workshop was excellent because it proved to me that I would enjoy (enjoy is important!) working with aluminum construction (new to my experience) and that I could finish a project of this magnitude. As for eating, Nancy and I had some world class baby ribs and pulled pork at Porky's, not far from ZAC. Nothing fancy - picnic tables inside with the vittles smoked in the smokehouse in back. Robert Schoenberger 701 55% do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zed Smith" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > > I agree with Larry....the Rudder Workshop IS finely tuned. > > However, the trip to Mexico, MO, is a chance to get outta Dodge. > It's a fun deal......you'll get to see how all the other parts are made. > You can eyeball the finished product(s). > You get to search for someplace to eat while there. Good luck. > > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:59 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey From: "Lance Gingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" "Listers, let's hear it for an MD who opts not to shorten his life with a Bonanza!!!" oh no, so now we have doctors *and* lawyers in the Zenith club!! DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:01 AM PST US From: Frank Stutzman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 PAULROD36@msn.com wrote: > Listers, let's hear it for an MD who opts not to shorten his life with a > Bonanza!!! Despite folklore to the contrary, more lawyers have died in Bonanzas than doctors. Some would consider this a good thing. Frank Stutzman Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl" Hood River, OR ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:59 AM PST US From: VideoFlyer@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory --> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com Yes! Do the workshop! I highly recommend it. Dave ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:39 AM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" So that's Workshop . . . yes. Admit you are a doctor or lawyer on this list . . .no. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of VideoFlyer@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory --> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com Yes! Do the workshop! I highly recommend it. Dave ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:45 PM PST US From: "mike honer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vixen files - shortening --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" This from my working for Nicholson File and being trained in their factory: Files are made of non-hardenable iron...basically soft enough to have the teeth upset into shape by a sharp-edged chisel banging away and being indexed after each whack to the position required to form the next tooth.. After that the file is srtaightened, easy to do since it is soft. Then the surface of the teeth is carburized to a few ten thousandths of an inch depth. This makes that surface into hardenable Carbon Steel. This is done at a very high temperature, after which the file is plunged into a quenching bath. This makes the teeth, or rather the very surface of the teeth very hard. If the whole file were processed to that hardness, it would surely shatter if dropped. And the inside of the file is still soft. To cut a file, simply grind through the thin outer layer with an abrasive wheel, and finish it off with a hacksaw, which by the way is made in the same fashion. As the List goes, this is what I call the "I am the expert, and should be believed without question" modality. ----- 601XL...Wings and tail rigged, engine hung and going to the Jabiru factory August 4,5 to be educated. Mike Honer============================================================ > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:20 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vixen files - shortening --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Roger, on the file I made a tool that I used more than anyother in edge prep and non-show deburring. What I did was go to Harbor Freight and bought about half dozen bastard files. I put each one in the vise (one at a time) about an inch. Wrapped a rag at the handle and tried to bend them. What I wanted was a file that the bottom edge would not grab the metal when slid across. One after another they each broke until I got one that bent but retained the temper. It was vital and I saved a ton of time. FWIW, Bill of Georgia, 601XL-3300/DC ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:46 PM PST US From: Timothy Coalwell Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: Timothy Coalwell Yeah, no telling how many of us Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, and Whatevers are lurking on these lists that no one hears from. That is the beauty of it all. Building an 801, 80% done, 98% to go. Tim Coalwell, MD Anchorage, AK DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Gingell Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" "Listers, let's hear it for an MD who opts not to shorten his life with a Bonanza!!!" oh no, so now we have doctors *and* lawyers in the Zenith club!! DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:40 PM PST US From: Steve Hulland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: surface scratches with a vixen file --> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Hulland My simple and inexpensive de-burring tool works great, even on straight edges. Steve Hulland 701 amado, AZ On 7/19/05, Philip Condon wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Condon" > > Jeees guys.....get a deburring tool and get on with life. I would never > use > a vixen file to debur. I can speak with some background. After building > two > (pre - prepunched) Vans RV's, with about 14000 rivets, air driven/squeezer > each........I use a 6 dollar deburring hand crank-hand tool. The threaded > end allows multiple pilots, deburers, ect.Check out Avery tool or > Cleveland > tool. Grease up a file???? What a mess. File off a file.....??? Use the > proper tool and enjoy the building process. > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:02 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Zenith-List: Bonanza drivers . . . --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >Despite folklore to the contrary, more lawyers have died in Bonanzas than >doctors. Some would consider this a good thing. Is that because more lawyers have Bonanzas than Doctors? Paul XL barely started do not archive --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:32 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Bonanza drivers . . . From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Maybe the Doctors start out with Bonanza's until they get sued and the lawyers take them in part payment!..:) Frank Do not archive and do not sue me! -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Subject: Zenith-List: Bonanza drivers . . . --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz --> >Despite folklore to the contrary, more lawyers have died in Bonanzas >than doctors. Some would consider this a good thing. Is that because more lawyers have Bonanzas than Doctors? Paul XL barely started do not archive --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:32 PM PST US From: Frank Stutzman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bonanza drivers . . . --> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > Is that because more lawyers have Bonanzas than Doctors? Naw. Its because all the rich doctors have upgraded to Barons. do not archive Frank Stutzman (engineer, but married to a poor doctor) Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl" Hood River, OR ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:36 PM PST US From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vixen files - shortening --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" In an earlier post I suggested breaking the file in a vise, which is what I did before. A few minutes ago I walked out to the garage, grabbed another file, put in a vise and snapped it with very little effort. It was a clean break with no distortion, I buy my files at Lowe's, perhaps they are cheap but they work. Try it, if it doesn't work you have only lost seconds. Clyde Barcus 601XL DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike honer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vixen files - shortening > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" > > This from my working for Nicholson File and being trained in their > factory: > > Files are made of non-hardenable iron...basically soft enough to have the > teeth upset into shape by a sharp-edged chisel banging away and being > indexed after each whack to the position required to form the next tooth.. > > After that the file is srtaightened, easy to do since it is soft. Then the > surface of the teeth is carburized to a few ten thousandths of an inch > depth. This makes that surface into hardenable Carbon Steel. This is done > at > a very high temperature, after which the file is plunged into a quenching > bath. This makes the teeth, or rather the very surface of the teeth very > hard. > > If the whole file were processed to that hardness, it would surely shatter > if dropped. > > And the inside of the file is still soft. > > To cut a file, simply grind through the thin outer layer with an abrasive > wheel, and finish it off with a hacksaw, which by the way is made in the > same fashion. > > As the List goes, this is what I call the "I am the expert, and should be > believed without question" modality. > ----- > > 601XL...Wings and tail rigged, engine hung and going to the Jabiru factory > August 4,5 to be educated. > > Mike Honer============================================================ >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:52 PM PST US From: Mike Fortunato Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato My advice to Alex: Don't bother with the worshop, unless you just happen to be in Mo. I can think of way better vacation destinations. :) Just order the rudder kit, and try it out. It's relatively inexpensive, and will give you a good taste of the process. If you like it, order the next stage. If not, then you're only out $250 bucks. Mike Fortunato 601XL do not archive ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:23 PM PST US From: "Kent Brown" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Engine crate handling --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown" Tracy, I was very surprised, also, I just assumed they would be able to deal with the low trailer, but they didn't even have a ramp out the back. Very odd. Kent Do not archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Crvsecretary@aol.com > Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 5:07 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine crate handling > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com > > > Hi Kent: > > I'm very surprised to hear that terminal didn't have at least ONE "low > dock" > installed. Yes, standard dock height is 48", but a low dock and/or > ground > access is pretty much universal for customer service. > > We're all glad to hear the dock manager was 'creative". As freight goes, > these crates aren't all that heavy..but they take up a great amount of > 'cube' > weight - that is, they are lighter than the freight company expects that > size > crate to be. That's why we pay on 'dimensional weight' as opposed to > scale > weight. > > > Tracy Smith > Naugatuck, CT > 601xl N458XL (reserved) > do not archive ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:51 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Yeah I have to agree, I just ordered the kit and got on with it. If you think you might be completely cack handed then the workshop may be worth it but to be honest not much skill is requied to build these things. Pop rivets have to be the easiest way to join metal. The only note of cauton is that they are not predrilled like the Van's kits are so be careful to have things flat down on the bench before drilling holes. Frank 601 HDS Stratus with Ram heads...For sale soon. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Fortunato Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato My advice to Alex: Don't bother with the worshop, unless you just happen to be in Mo. I can think of way better vacation destinations. :) Just order the rudder kit, and try it out. It's relatively inexpensive, and will give you a good taste of the process. If you like it, order the next stage. If not, then you're only out $250 bucks. Mike Fortunato 601XL do not archive ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:53 PM PST US From: "ron wehba" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vixen files - shortening --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ron wehba" Try it, if it doesn't work you have only lost seconds and the cost of a cheap file ,,sorry just had too ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vixen files - shortening > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" > > In an earlier post I suggested breaking the file in a vise, which is what > I > did before. A few minutes ago I walked out to the garage, grabbed another > file, put in a vise and snapped it with very little effort. It was a clean > break with no distortion, I buy my files at Lowe's, perhaps they are cheap > but they work. Try it, if it doesn't work you have only lost seconds. > > Clyde Barcus > 601XL > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mike honer" > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vixen files - shortening > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" >> >> This from my working for Nicholson File and being trained in their >> factory: >> >> Files are made of non-hardenable iron...basically soft enough to have the >> teeth upset into shape by a sharp-edged chisel banging away and being >> indexed after each whack to the position required to form the next >> tooth.. >> >> After that the file is srtaightened, easy to do since it is soft. Then >> the >> surface of the teeth is carburized to a few ten thousandths of an inch >> depth. This makes that surface into hardenable Carbon Steel. This is done >> at >> a very high temperature, after which the file is plunged into a quenching >> bath. This makes the teeth, or rather the very surface of the teeth very >> hard. >> >> If the whole file were processed to that hardness, it would surely >> shatter >> if dropped. >> >> And the inside of the file is still soft. >> >> To cut a file, simply grind through the thin outer layer with an abrasive >> wheel, and finish it off with a hacksaw, which by the way is made in the >> same fashion. >> >> As the List goes, this is what I call the "I am the expert, and should be >> believed without question" modality. >> ----- >> >> 601XL...Wings and tail rigged, engine hung and going to the Jabiru >> factory >> August 4,5 to be educated. >> >> Mike Honer============================================================ >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:47 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Weekly Roast: Alex, Doctors, Lawyers, Vee-tails etc --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith By now Alex (probably not his real name) wishes he had NEVER ventured onto this List. However, Alex, recall that I mentioned "thick skin". Write that on the wall. You've been warned, so welcome to the fray. GO TO THE WORKSHOP! And while you're there pick up some extra A4's and A5's, a big handful of L's, and get a towbar. You can nearly pay for the trip by savings realized in not having Zenith ship via UPS every week or two. Zed/701/etc do not archive ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:39 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vixen files - shortening --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >In an earlier post I suggested breaking the file in a vise, which is what I >did before. A few minutes ago I walked out to the garage, grabbed another >file, put in a vise and snapped it with very little effort. It was a clean >break with no distortion, I buy my files at Lowe's, perhaps they are cheap >but they work. Try it, if it doesn't work you have only lost seconds. > >Clyde Barcus >601XL Thank you Clyde. I just tried your file breaking trick. I was too weak to break the file outright, but a medium blow with a hammer worked just fine. My new deburring tool is now waiting for the epoxy to set. Paul XL barely started do not archive ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:29 PM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Weekly Roast: Alex, Doctors, Lawyers, Vee-tails etc --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne Well, no one has picked on my profession (computer programmer) so I guess I will have to. A guy is walking through the woods when he hears a voice say "Oh please sir, please rescue me". He looks around and sees that the voice comes from a small frog there on the ground. He picks up the frog which says "oh please kind sir, I am an enchanted princess. Just kiss me and I will change into my true form and love you forever". So he puts the frog into his pocket and continues walking. The frog calls out "aren't you going to kiss me?" to which the man replies "I'm a programmer - we don't have girlfriends. But a talking frog, that's neat!" -- Craig Zed Smith wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > > By now Alex (probably not his real name) wishes he had NEVER ventured onto this List. > > However, Alex, recall that I mentioned "thick skin". Write that on the wall. You've been warned, so welcome to the fray. > > GO TO THE WORKSHOP! > > And while you're there pick up some extra A4's and A5's, a big handful of L's, and get a towbar. > > You can nearly pay for the trip by savings realized in not having Zenith ship via UPS every week or two. > > Zed/701/etc > do not archive > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:15 PM PST US From: Peter Dunning Subject: Zenith-List: Hard starting warm 3300 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Dunning Hi Ron Could you measure the battery voltages whilst the starter motor is cranking the engine both "cold" and "hot". If the battery voltage sags significantly more during the "hot" than the "cold" cranking, then the most likely cause of the problem is the lack of battery performance or an abnormally high internal resistance of the battery, (or both). Keep in touch. Peter Dunning CH601HD/ZK-SPD ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron dewees" Subject: Zenith-List: Hard starting warm 3300 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:47 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: not spam --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien Thanks! I juste made the change... I'll see how it works from now on. Michel do not archive --- Daniel Vandenberg wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg > > > Michel... > > This was happening to me as well. Here's how I > fixed > it: > > 1. Click on "Mail Options" in the upper right corner > of the screen. > > 2. On the "Mail Options" screen click on "Spam > Protection". > > 3. On the "Spam Protection" screen check the box in > front of "Move the message to my Inbox" under "When > I > mark a message in the Bulk folder as Not Spam:" > > 4. Click on "Save Changes" in the upper left of the > screen. > > 5. The next time any Zenith List mail ends up in > your > "Bulk" mailbox, you can now check the box next to > the > message and then click "not spam"...and it will be > directed to your inbox in the future. > > Dan > do not archive > > > ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:30 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: bonanzas and crates NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=disabled version=3.0.2 --> Zenith-List message posted by: I am a retired doc and none of my doc friends have bonanzas. They have 172's one 182, a Maule, 2 champs and all the above are in the EAA and several, including me, have built projects and fly them. None have bonanzas, barons, or anything like that. The local bonanzas and barons and Cirruss's are all owned by realters, contracters (4), and an accountant. No lawyers, either. One attorney is in a Cherokee 150 flying club. Sorry, guys. Just going to leave the house to get my engine from Yellow Freight. Thanks for all the tips on loading and unloading it. I have pipes cut for rolling and a ramp ready. Wish me luck. Bob 701 just started. ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:03 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" Yeah, no telling how many of us Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, and Whatevers are lurking on these lists that no one hears from. That is the beauty of it all. Building an 801, 80% done, 98% to go. Tim Coalwell, MD Anchorage, AK ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// It's true. Alot of us are real smart guys. In fact I have three PHD's. two of the "post hole diggers" are in the barn and one is in the garage. ha ha of course ..............do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:05 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Zenith-List: Oshkosh Lodging --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Hi guys: I'm going to make my first trip to Oshkosh AirVenture this year and I'm looking for a place to stay for one night. I'm going to try to drive 8 hours, spend 1/2 day, find a place to sleep, look around the second day and drive 8 hours home. It's all the time I have and I know I won't see everything but that's the way it is. At this point I have found a Holiday Inn over an hour away that has a room. Does anybody have a room (or a camping spot?) closer that would like to share the expense of the room? I'm not picky and just need one night. I'm somewhat flexible on the night - either Monday or Tuesday night. (Sorry Mark and David, I can't make the ZAC dinner like I had hoped). Thanks in advance for your help, Scott Laughlin 601XL / Corvair http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ Waiting on Engine Parts --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:48 PM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" Well, I think I resemble that remark. All I am tried to say is that the rudder workshop is not a good example of what it's really like. The rest of the kit construction is considerable harder than they, Zenith, would like to believe. Zenith makes their living by selling you kits and that is what it is all about. New members, please don't let my CYNIC thoughts stop you from your adventure. Just remember when you are totally confused and say to yourself, "but they made it look so easy", Well, I told you so. Just be prepared, it can be very frustrating, sleep on it and take your time. It's all there, but sometimes it's real hard to ferried out. The real secret is learning how to read the drawings. There are too many of us who have done it and so can you. This is my fourth kit and Zenith does an good job compared to some I've seen. If you got questions, use this list. Insofar and my 2.5, the numbers worked out good, a little heavy for my field, 849lbs, but certainly doable. And, the CG worked out fine, I didn't every have to put ballast in the rear. But, I made a mistake by going to Sun N' Fun. Saw something that is lighter, faster and I liked better. And, being a leading edge type person, I just couldn't help my self. Having a little trouble getting my fuel injection worked out on my new engine, but should whip it soon. It will be the first fuel injected "blank" in a 701. I will definitely post numbers as soon as I have them. Yours truly, local cynic. Sorta like that. Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" > > New Members don't mind Larry ,he is our local cynic which makes us > consider our opinions, and we do have respect for him and his thoughts, > but as for the rudder workshop please disregard his opinions as they are > his and few others. As for confidence false or not the fact Is that you > do build your own rudder and you do learn the basic skill in which to > build a Zenith plane from, you also get to meet the people you will be > interacting with and make new friends that will follow you throughout > your building experience! > Larry I have been meaning to ask, you spent so much time on your 701 > "KUTTER" and installing a beautiful FWF for your 2.5L Subaru direct > drive, what happened? I find it hard to understand how anyone can be all > done and ready for there first flight then completely switch FWF, I can > understand switching after your initial 40 hrs are up but to do it just > before first flight, I'm boggled to no end did you even get it to bunny > hop before you ripped it all apart? Did the math not work out in the end > with an engine that heavy? Several people have asked! Care to share your > experience? > > Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario > Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751 > President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter > www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" > > The rudder workshop is ok, but gives a potential builder false > confidence. > Why you ask? Because it has been done so many times, it is finely > tuned. > The instructions on the rudder are great and very complete. They need > to > have a work shop on a part(s) that is not so programmed and the > instructions > are not so clear, say a wing, or mating the cabin to the fuselage, etc. > Unless a new builder is a total novice, I think the rudder workshop is a > waste of time. It's not the real word. With the finely tuned > instructions > on the rudder almost any one can build one with little effort, but not > so > for the rest of the kit. Just a word to the wise, but don't let that > stop > you, it can be done, I did it. > > Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com > > > > Alex > > > > I highly reccomend doing the rudder workshop, it gets you to > understand > the > > ins and outs of the drawings and construction. > > > > Bob Spudis > > > > CH701- 912S 75% > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > -- > > > -- > -- ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:15 PM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne I also think we have someone who works at Home Depot. And then there are those of us who are self-unemployed. -- Craig n801bh@netzero.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" > > > Yeah, no telling how many of us Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, and > Whatevers are lurking on these lists that no one hears from. That is > the beauty of it all. > > Building an 801, 80% done, 98% to go. > > Tim Coalwell, MD > Anchorage, AK > > ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > > > It's true. Alot of us are real smart guys. In fact I have three PHD's. two of the "post hole diggers" are in the barn and one is in the garage. ha ha > > of course ..............do not archive > > Ben Haas > N801BH > www.haaspowerair.com > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:26 PM PST US From: Daniel Vandenberg Subject: Re: Zenith-List: not spam --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg Actually, Michel, I need to revise one point on this "Not Spam" topic. When you find Zenith List messages in your "Bulk" box, you must click on the message, open it, and THEN you can click "Not Spam". That will redirect the message to your "Inbox" and I believe Yahoo will then, in the future, direct mail from that sender to your "Inbox" instead of to the "Bulk" folder. Dan Do not archive --- Michel Therrien wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > > Thanks! I juste made the change... I'll see how it > works from now on. > > Michel > do not archive > > --- Daniel Vandenberg wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel > Vandenberg > > > > > > Michel... > > > > This was happening to me as well. Here's how I > > fixed > > it: > > > > 1. Click on "Mail Options" in the upper right > corner > > of the screen. > > > > 2. On the "Mail Options" screen click on "Spam > > Protection". > > > > 3. On the "Spam Protection" screen check the box > in > > front of "Move the message to my Inbox" under > "When > > I > > mark a message in the Bulk folder as Not Spam:" > > > > 4. Click on "Save Changes" in the upper left of > the > > screen. > > > > 5. The next time any Zenith List mail ends up in > > your > > "Bulk" mailbox, you can now check the box next to > > the > > message and then click "not spam"...and it will be > > directed to your inbox in the future. > > > > Dan > > do not archive > > > > > > > > ---------------------------- > Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby > http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby > > > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:23 PM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oshkosh Lodging --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne There is always room to camp at Camp Scholler but you must be an EAA member. http://www.airventure.org/2005/planning/where_to_stay.html#EAA%20CAMPGROUNDS -- Craig N5SL wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL > > Hi guys: > > I'm going to make my first trip to Oshkosh AirVenture this year and I'm looking for a place to stay for one night. I'm going to try to drive 8 hours, spend 1/2 day, find a place to sleep, look around the second day and drive 8 hours home. It's all the time I have and I know I won't see everything but that's the way it is. > > At this point I have found a Holiday Inn over an hour away that has a room. Does anybody have a room (or a camping spot?) closer that would like to share the expense of the room? I'm not picky and just need one night. I'm somewhat flexible on the night - either Monday or Tuesday night. (Sorry Mark and David, I can't make the ZAC dinner like I had hoped). > > Thanks in advance for your help, > > Scott Laughlin > 601XL / Corvair > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ > Waiting on Engine Parts > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:35 PM PST US From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Oshkosh Lodging --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" Scott, I wrote you an offline reply with a contact... Best, Cory -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL Subject: Zenith-List: Oshkosh Lodging --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Hi guys: I'm going to make my first trip to Oshkosh AirVenture this year and I'm looking for a place to stay for one night. I'm going to try to drive 8 hours, spend 1/2 day, find a place to sleep, look around the second day and drive 8 hours home. It's all the time I have and I know I won't see everything but that's the way it is. At this point I have found a Holiday Inn over an hour away that has a room. Does anybody have a room (or a camping spot?) closer that would like to share the expense of the room? I'm not picky and just need one night. I'm somewhat flexible on the night - either Monday or Tuesday night. (Sorry Mark and David, I can't make the ZAC dinner like I had hoped). Thanks in advance for your help, Scott Laughlin 601XL / Corvair http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ Waiting on Engine Parts --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:08 PM PST US From: "Alex Rodriguez, MD" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Alex Rodriguez, MD" First I want to thank all of you for an extraordinary welcome and response to my questions. This list is obviously populated by caring and helpful people and I can see right off that I'm going to have to limit my messages on this list or I'll never have any time to build an airplane. :-) I'm kidding of course, thank you for answering my questions about the workshop. Overall, there are many good reasons for going. A major criteria for me is to be able to get a demo flight in the 601XL. And there is great value in meeting many of the people behind the company. Also, having very little experience in construction techniques means that just seeing people building rudders the "right" way could be very useful. On the cons side, I'd rather spend the $700-800 to travel to Missouri on the kit itself. The availability of the "metalworking 101" video could actually meet some of the need for a trip to Missouri. I think my decision to attend the workshop will depend on whether I can find some builders in my area and get a demo ride elsewhere. For those of you that made comments about my medical background and bonanza's and homebuilts, I'll just say that you made me laugh so hard, I thought I'd make a fool of myself. However, I must admit that I don't practice medicine anymore and I actually work as a director of information technology for an ad agency. Perhaps, now that you know that I'm really a geek, the idea of building a plane is more familiar to the techy person in all of us. Thanks again for everyone's feedback. I'll try and keep everyone posted on my progress. Peace, Alex ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:09 PM PST US From: "jackyager" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jackyager" Larry, I can't see how anyone can disagree with your obseration that the rudder drawings and photo instructions are done in much greater detail that that for the rest of the airplane. Obviously ZAC has polished the rudder drawings and instructions. The rudder workshop may be useful for a new builder, but it's certainly not representative of the quality of the drawings for the rest of the airplane. ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:36 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Hey . . . I resemble that remark! Yes I work at Home Depot. Before that I was "self-employed". ;) Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro- Alex from New Jersey --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne I also think we have someone who works at Home Depot. And then there are those of us who are self-unemployed. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:49 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith Drawing Quality --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz At 09:23 PM 7/19/2005, you wrote: > I can't see how anyone can disagree with your obseration that the rudder >drawings and photo instructions are done in much greater detail that that >for the rest of the airplane. Obviously ZAC has polished the rudder >drawings and instructions. The rudder workshop may be useful for a new >builder, but it's certainly not representative of the quality of the >drawings for the rest of the airplane. I can't believe you said that. I just got my drawings a few months ago and they have all been updated within the last year or so. They are so new the kit parts don't match the ones shown on the drawings. In particular, the tail drawing now calls for a fiberglass tip but there was no such part in my kit. Perhaps we all have different versions of the drawings? I wonder how many builders of the 601 XL have the version that requires kit builders to set solid rivets - in spite of all the promises this was not the case. Any comments from the crowd? Paul 601 XL barely started --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 ---------------------------------------------